Not really sexist?

[einhorn303]

Ok, so I'm the sort of embittered otaku loser who spends his days obsessing over moe~ anime and figures. As I sat in my college dorm room, rabidly typing up a Lynette x Yoshika fanfic, I heard the discordant wailing of some fool and his guitar. "Pahh," I thought, "stupid normal people." Making all that noise in the quad courtyard, a bunch of boys poorly strumming their guitar and singing bad Bob Marley songs, just to pick up girls. And I realized, that's what it is...it's all basically a competition for women. I've never heard a girl singing or playing down there, they just sort of stand around and be pretty, asking guys for cigarettes and acting like prizes. Some impassioned forum posters may say my hobbies are sexist, but the sociological dynamics I see outside in the quad courtyard seems a lot more sexist.

People say, "ohh, fanservice and moe anime objectify women." But they objectify FAKE women, not real women. An otaku can have a much less sexist opinion of women. When he sees a girl on the street, he doesn't think, "Daaaamm yo, I'd hit it," he thinks of her as a person. After all, the most devoted otaku think 2d is far superior to 3d. The objectification and sexual satisfaction the otaku gets from 2d women makes it so they don't have to objectify 3d women. The average drunken frat boy is a lot more likely to sexually assault a girl than the average shy, imagination-prone otaku. We already have doujinshi and eroge, we don't need women for sex...the power politics of sex are removed from the equation, making for more equal gender relations. Look at the odd, post-social relations that hardcore male and female (yaoi) loving otaku are able to have.

Traditional culture, for the last 2000 years at least, has been wildly sexist. Otaku culture may have weird-ass porn doujinshi, but on a social level, in the real world, it may be far less sexist.

[something]

Even if it's not your intent to stir the hornet's nest, I can't possibly see any good coming from this thread. I mean, there will always be people who want to see all sorts of vile, socially disturbed motivations behind the stuff instead of minding their own business and watching what they like instead.

And you know what?

Fuck em.

[treatment]

dude,

srsly.

your rant reminds me of SA's The Animorphosis (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/anime-animorphosis.php).

:cool:

[Ryos]

This thread confuses me, ergo I am. I'm not really sure what you're driving at, or why you chose the analogy you did.

[zaldar]

Heh...go to any dance club and you will see the same kind of meat market. Is there a double standard? Of course there is. *shrug* As something said, fuck um.

[Lego]

While anime does have fanservice, I'm amazed time and time again by how strong most of the women in anime are. Motoko from GITS, Ryoko from Tenchi, Revy from Black Lagoon. You can go on and on.

[vtr9kvictor]

Ok, so I'm the sort of embittered otaku loser who spends his days obsessing over moe~ anime and figures. As I sat in my college dorm room, rabidly typing up a Lynette x Yoshika fanfic, I heard the discordant wailing of some fool and his guitar. "Pahh," I thought, "stupid normal people." Making all that noise in the quad courtyard, a bunch of boys poorly strumming their guitar and singing bad Bob Marley songs, just to pick up girls. And I realized, that's what it is...it's all basically a competition for women. I've never heard a girl singing or playing down there, they just sort of stand around and be pretty, asking guys for cigarettes and acting like prizes. Some impassioned forum posters may say my hobbies are sexist, but the sociological dynamics I see outside in the quad courtyard seems a lot more sexist.

People say, "ohh, fanservice and moe anime objectify women." But they objectify FAKE women, not real women. An otaku can have a much less sexist opinion of women. When he sees a girl on the street, he doesn't think, "Daaaamm yo, I'd hit it," he thinks of her as a person. After all, the most devoted otaku think 2d is far superior to 3d. The objectification and sexual satisfaction the otaku gets from 2d women makes it so they don't have to objectify 3d women. The average drunken frat boy is a lot more likely to sexually assault a girl than the average shy, imagination-prone otaku. We already have doujinshi and eroge, we don't need women for sex...the power politics of sex are removed from the equation, making for more equal gender relations. Look at the odd, post-social relations that hardcore male and female (yaoi) loving otaku are able to have.

Traditional culture, for the last 2000 years at least, has been wildly sexist. Otaku culture may have weird-ass porn doujinshi, but on a social level, in the real world, it may be far less sexist.

Its my experience that it is only objectification if the woman (or women) in question (and it must be a specific group) do not feel that they personally are benefitting in some way from it.

[GrateSaiyaman]

I used to kind of worry about whether or not I am objectifying women or not. My rational has been the fact that these "girls/women" are not real.

I've been chided before about my massive amounts of posters, figures and the generally "anime" theme to my apartment. I figure I can either display the posters or roll them up after I take a look. Being my home's walls are white, Megami magazine posters are much better. I've never had anyone actually say that these things are bad or demeaning to women, I've never had anyone comment that I'm sick or weird either . . . at least not to my face.

As was mentioned . . .

Its my experience that it is only objectification if the woman (or women) in question (and it must be a specific group) do not feel that they personally are benefitting in some way from it.

I have to agree.

I look around where I work and generally in society that are a number of women who use their sexuality, much like an anime utilizes fan-service, to get guys (and sometimes gals) to pay attention to them . . . at the very least.

That might seem to be a rather pragmatic attitude, but it isn't necessarily a bad attitude or thing to be ashamed of it's just the way some people are.

When I look at the website statistics for my personal anime website I find that a great deal of the hot-linked images are backgrounds and banners for a surprising number of girl's networking pages on MySpace and Hi5......
With all the images that they have to go through to pick out one that they like for their use, I have doubts about whether or not they feel objectified or that the images are sexist. Although I do have my doubts if some of them are old enough to understand the concepts.

I wonder if they might feel admiration for some of the characters because of the character's strength . . . as mentioned earlier many female anime characters are quite strong. I might add, not just physically strong.

I think I'm babbling now and I gotta go . . .

Just thinking . . . .

;)

[Doom85]

This thread confuses me, ergo I am. I'm not really sure what you're driving at, or why you chose the analogy you did.

He posted the exact same post at animenewsnetwork's forum (in the regular "anime" section"), and one poster summed it up best: he probably feels guilty (whether by his own thoughts or others' accusations) for his lifestyle, so he defends it by pointing out, "hey, so-and-so does this!"

Which is an absurd thing to do. Let's say I walked up to a co-worker and punched him in the face. My boss is furious and fires me, but I declare, "hey, at least I didn't kill him!". (note: I'm not saying moe is wrong like puching someone, but the OP seems to think it could be wrong, hence he focuses on more clearly negative behavior)

Also, way to stereotype every person who has picked up a guitar, OP.

[lesterf1020]

he probably feels guilty (whether by his own thoughts or others' accusations) for his lifestyle, so he defends it by pointing out, "hey, so-and-so does this!"


That sounds about right.