Gurren Lagann or Code Geass?

[Noodle]

So... the hype around both of these have convinced me to try them. I know only the most cursory of things about both series and haven't seen any of them, outside a few videos and general fangooing on the net. I'm interested in both but can only start with one. I haven't read reviews, because I don't really want to. So which would you recommend over the other, and why?

If technical/manufacturing/etc concerns are worth factoring in, please mention them. :) Sorry in advance for not just weeding through epic threads in R1 about both shows.

PS:
I'm not going to list what else I have or like, because, to be honest, I think it'll just confuse the matter and prior catalog really has little to do with my current mood or taste...ever. :P I just want some opinions about the two shows and I can decide for myself based on what people say about them.

[Drgnfuel]

IMO- Geass > Gurren

[The Adventurer]

Gurren is the best action/adventure show I've watched in a long long time.

Geass is however really really dull with obnoxious teen melodrama out the waazu.

[Thomas Alan]

I prefer Code Geass

[Vegard Aune]

If technical/manufacturing/etc concerns are worth factoring in, please mention them. :) Sorry in advance for not just weeding through epic threads in R1 about both shows.
Both volume 1 and 2 of Code Geass still have some horribly glitched copies in circulation, where at best, you'd get a bunch of macroblocking and occasional split-second freezes with two or three inevitable glitches in episode 9, and at worst, you wouldn't even be able to play the discs in the first place. Bandai does have a replacement-program up for it, though.

Bearing that in mind, I would assume Gurren Langann would be the better choice, but being that CG is the only one out of the two that I've actually seen, I can't say anything about how they compare, but I do enjoy Code Geass, and I would gladly recommend it to anyone were it not for these glitches. But assuming that you live in America, (which I don't...) you could always buy the DVDs and use the replacement-program if you get unlucky.

[joelgundam01]

Both volume 1 and 2 of Code Geass still have some horribly glitched copies in circulation, where at best, you'd get a bunch of macroblocking and occasional split-second freezes with two or three inevitable glitches in episode 9, and at worst, you wouldn't even be able to play the discs in the first place. Bandai does have a replacement-program up for it, though.

Volume 1 was only a small batch, considering that most of us got working copies. Volume 2 is as different story though. I only noticed four hiccups with my copy (2 short freezes, one audio dropout and a quick macroblock), this was before I did the exchange.

Personally, I preferred Code Geass over Gurren Lagann.

[Dicrel Seijin]

Gurren Lagann has several themes running through it. The one I can address is "fighting spirit." Early on, the main characters, Simon and Kamina, through sheer willpower bend machines to do their bidding. Fighting to quite literally make a place for themselves in the world is what they do for most of the anime. There are grander and more epic themes and story arcs that follow, but if you don't like giant robots, explosions, and battle cries, you should probably stay away.

So saying, I liked it for the characters that are too stubborn to stay down, that will fight overwhelming odds, and who will sacrifice. Good stuff.

Code Geass, I haven't seen as much of, but from what I've seen, I do like as well. I would consider it a more cerebral Gurren Lagann as both share quite a number of elements. When the teen melodrama falls away and the revolution goes into full swing is when I liked it all the more.

One thing that unsettled me was the idea that the Big Bad knew all about the good guys and merely tolerated their existence until such a time as they no longer amused. I know that was intentional, but still it grated. This also occurs in Gurren, but there I didn't believe it. In Gurren I thought the good guys had the upper hand. In Code Geass I always had a sense that everything would come tumbling down.

I think it boils down to hope. In Gurren, even in the darkest times, there was hope that through sheer will, through the idea that if you tried your hardest, everything would work out. All or nothing. Where as in Code Geass, the stratified society and the military precision of the battles--how everything seemed to be chess moves in a great game--gave it more of a despairing tone (this is where the angst comes in). In Code Geass everyone compromises. The ends justify the means.

This is a lot longer than I intended. Hope it helps in some small way.

[Vegard Aune]

Both volume 1 and 2 of Code Geass still have some horribly glitched copies in circulation, where at best, you'd get a bunch of macroblocking and occasional split-second freezes with two or three inevitable glitches in episode 9, and at worst, you wouldn't even be able to play the discs in the first place. Bandai does have a replacement-program up for it, though.

Volume 1 is only a small batch, considering that most of us got working copies.
Well, okay, volume 1 isn't AS bad, but, at least for me, it still won't play properly on my TV. (macroblocking and hiccups frequently popping up) My PC seems to play it perfectly, though.

[Kirarakim]

Gurren Lagann by a long shot. Code Geass was entertaining but more because of the fandom then the actual show.

[Skorch]

Gurren Lagann has several themes running through it. The one I can address is "fighting spirit." Early on, the main characters, Simon and Kamina, through sheer willpower bend machines to do their bidding. Fighting to quite literally make a place for themselves in the world is what they do for most of the anime. There are grander and more epic themes and story arcs that follow, but if you don't like giant robots, explosions, and battle cries, you should probably stay away.

I disagree with the part in bold. I usually find mecha quite boring, but it was just the opposite with Gurren Lagann. A few of my favorites scenes are in ep 3 and 11. I really enjoyed it, though I can't really say the same about Geass. I tried watching it, but didn't really like it.

[Classical]

I've been following both shows and I like both of them. However, despite that, I can say (with confidence) that I prefer Code Geass over Gurren Lagann, thus I'd recommend Code Geass.

Code Geass is certainly a lot more serious of a show than Gurren Lagann. As someone pointed out, it is also a lot more cerebral than Gurren, though I do feel that Gurren has a couple of "cerebral" moments. Gurren Lagann, I felt, is not as serious as Geass overall, though I do think the show is still serious. Geass also has the appeal in that it has character designs done by Clamp and I happened to like the designs. Personally, I got more of a thrill watching Geass compared to Gurren in terms of keeping me excited.

[Fencedude]

Hmm...I'm not really in a position to expound more on this, but while I like both quite a bit, their appeal is very different.

Code Geass is very much a "Real Robot" series, deriving largely from traditions encased in shows like Mobile Suit Gundam and SDF Macross and their ilk, while Gurren Lagann is a quintessential "Super Robot" show, cut from the same mold that brought us Mazinger Z, Getter Robo and the other classics.

Personally I like both "Real" and "Super" robots equally, but there are some people who resonate more with one than the other.

[something]

Well, to get this put of the way: they're really really different. Also, I recommend both very very highly, so do get them both eventually.

Code Geass is in my top 10 all time favorite shows at #9. Gurren Lagann is in my top 10 all time favorite shows at #5. It's also the only show in my top 10 that I didn't see fansubbed in full first, so it's impressive that it managed to rank so highly even with that handicap. Code Geass may well fall out of my top 10 within a year or two. Not that this is a knock against the show - being #11 or even #15 out of 500+ is hardly an insult. :sd: But I don't see Gurren Lagann going anywhere for a long time.

In short, get them both at your earliest convenience. However, you're asking which to prioritize, and I say Gurren Lagann, definitely.

Partly because it's better, but largely because it's already completely released. Or if you want the bilingual version (I don't know how easy/hard the sub-only is to find nowadays), it'll be done before Geass R2 ends. Geass season one ends on the cliffhanger from hell, so you'll want to jump right into R2 ASAP. But that'll be awhile yet. Gurren bilingual will presumably be done around March, I can't see Geass R2 being complete until June or later.

Because they're so darn different I'm not sure where to start in comparing them. To cheat, here's what I said about Gurren Lagann in the "Which anime made you the most emotional?" thread:

In terms of sheer excitement and epic hot blooded wide-eyed amazement, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Every time I hear "Sorairo Days", "Minna no Peace", and above all "Happily Ever After", I think of some of its most memorable moments and I feel twitchy, like I want to jump out of my skin (in a good way). When I sat down to watch the second half, I could not believe what I was seeing. I didn't believe it could up the ante, but it did, and then did it again, and kept doing it until I couldn't even form "expectations" anymore because it'd completely surpassed the human capacity to fathom anything more epic. I've been itching something fierce to rewatch it, despite seeing it for the first time only very recently. Just typing this makes the blood rush through my veins that much hotter.

And note that I 1) have no particular affinity for giant robots or 2) hot blooded manliness. Those things can be tolerable, even "okay" but they aren't ever really my motivation for watching a show. But with Gurren Lagann... god damn it's nearly impossible not to get all pumped up. Also, Simon is one of my favorite male characters ever, and Nia is one of my favorite female characters ever. Viral is one of my favorite antagonists ever. Lord Genome is one of the most bad ass motherfuckers to ever fuck a mother's ass badly (wait...). Yoko and Kamina are great too, as is most of the side cast.

The music is absolutely perfect - "Happily Ever After" is one of my favorite tracks from an anime, period - the animation (outside one or two eps) is fantastic if you don't mind the style, and the sense of sheer epic scale is something I never, ever, for as long as I live, expect to see challenged, let alone matched.

[Garrett Jax]

Allow me please to tack on a question of my own to this thread ...

These glitch discs you guys spoke of for Code Geass, ... are they still out among the retailers? Does the risk warrant skipping buying the anime at this time through Right Stuf's Bandai sale?

One thing I hate is adefective disc.

Thanks.

[something]

These glitch discs you guys spoke of for Code Geass, ... are they still out among the retailers? Does the risk warrant skipping buying the anime at this time through Right Stuf's Bandai sale?
They're still out there. Bandai never did a recall. Someone got a glitch disc deliverd from TRSI just today, I think. However, theres no other option really. As they didn't send corrected discs to retailers (not on any large scale anyway) the option is either risk it or don't get it at all. I doubt corrected discs will reign supreme at retailers until the show is put in a set and rereleased.

While it's inexcusable how Bandai handled this, I will say that depending on your player the discs are still watchable. I lose a grand total of ~5 seconds of episode 9, but otherwise it's fine. Granted, this would annoy me far more if I hadn't seen that episode 2-3 times before getting the DVDs, but if you know when it's coming you can go a quick couple second skip past it and keep watching.

My experience with the glitch: link (http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showpost.php?p=1440373&postcount=984)

If you 1) skip the Ep 9 OP chapter and 2) skip ahead immediately before 1:33:17 into the disc (also ep 9), you might be okay. Some people had worse problems though, and had no choice but to do an exchange. On the plus side, practically everyone has reported success with the exchanged discs and Bandai seems to (usually) be quick about it.

I'm not going to bother with an exchange, personally. I don't like letting them off the hook like that, but properly punishing them would require expending my own time and money for minimal benefit to myself.

I say to give it a shot, the show is still more than worth it.

[pianocello]

Let's do a comparison:
Good points of Gurren Lagann
1. Character growth of main character is great.
2. Takes place over a longer span of time so it was good to watch characters like Darry grow.
3. Decent "where are they now" epilogue.
4. Some really awesome manly dialogue.
5. Awesome mid-series climax.
6. Great character development for a antagonist who becomes a sort-of protagonist.
7. Stupid-looking mecha that is always good for a laugh.
8. Nia's spunkiness in the 1st half was entertaining to watch.
9. Some occasionally creative animation.
10. Good action scenes.
11. Is not afraid to kill off seemingly important characters.

Good points of Code Geass
1. Some extremely sexy characters that make good doujinshi fodder.
2. Occasionally unexpectedly surprising fanservice.
3. Harem hijinks.
4. It certainly isn't boring.
5. Some surprisingly entertaining minor characters like Lloyd and Sayoko.

Bad points of Gurren Lagaan
1. Male lead does get into a slump where he sort-of drags the show down.
2. Bad fanservice.
3. Some forgettable side characters that seem like excess baggage.
4. Secondary romances are rather forgettable.
5. The 3 Littner sisters were not properly developed as characters.
6. Gets too abstact and evangelisque in the climax.


Bad points of Code Geass
1. Plot twists get increasingly ridiculous and piled on. Just because.
2. Characters suddenly act "out of character". Just because.
3. Awful theme songs and poor use of BGM.
4. Kallen - who could have been better used as a strong character caught in between becomes essentially nothing more than fanservice fodder.
5. Nina is annoying.
6. Bad use of yuri.
7. The show just keeps piling on with too many characters.
8. Suzaku is stupidly annoying.
9. Poor character development for the Black Knights - they're just kind of "there" but they're not as compelling as the main cast.

Conclusion: Gurren Lagann is better than Code Geass.

[Kusaja]

The shows are different enough.

I do think Gurren Lagann is superior overall and it is one of the better (not necessarily the best) shows that should easily stand the test of time, so that's a fine purchase.

But I do appreciate Code Geass quite a bit, even with all its flaws, and feel compelled to add a few things here and there, to balance out the above lists. In short, I wouldn't say it's a bad buy either and at least it's worth a watch.



Good points of Code Geass
1. Some extremely sexy characters that make good doujinshi fodder.
2. Occasionally unexpectedly surprising fanservice.
3. Harem hijinks.
4. It certainly isn't boring.
5. Some surprisingly entertaining minor characters like Lloyd and Sayoko.

First and foremost, I think the main character himself can be a big draw and his development does eventually payoff, thematically, though in somewhat controversial ways. The stronger pieces of the show's story and writing have more to do with him than with anyone else, directly or indirectly.

Not to mention that the whole Suzaku - Lelouch interaction is also interesting, as well as relevant to quite a few of their respective dilemmas.

A reasonable amount of the action, mecha or otherwise, is decent to good even if it's not the show's real focus. Some mecha show tropes are subverted in unusual or at least entertaining ways, even by the setup itself, which can be another good point. On the other hand, others are still followed, with mixed results.

The series, for all its ups and downs along the way, also has an unexpectedly strong ending.

Bad points of Code Geass
1. Plot twists get increasingly ridiculous and piled on. Just because.
2. Characters suddenly act "out of character". Just because.

As ridiculous as many plot twists clearly are, to an unnecessary extent even, some do serve more of a purpose than what is popularly believed, not simply "just because".

Still, I suppose it depends on the strength of one's suspension of disbelief, which can be broken if one isn't careful.

The same thing goes for some of the character behaviors that, IMHO, aren't always as "out of character" as it is all too easily assumed in online discussion, sometimes overlooking other aspects of said characters.


3. Awful theme songs and poor use of BGM.

I actually like most of the music and its use, but that's also a matter of personal taste.

4. Kallen - who could have been better used as a strong character caught in between becomes essentially nothing more than fanservice fodder.
More could have been done with her, yes, and some potential was wasted in the process...but overall, Kallen -and a couple of the other girls for that matter- did have a role to play that wasn't just fanservice fodder, no, thus I strongly disagree with limiting her character to that alone...in either season.

I have the feeling that many people have reached that conclusion because of the previously mentioned loss of suspension of disbelief, in part, and because their own personal expectations weren't met (which also applies to me, but maybe not to the same degree).


5. Nina is annoying.
6. Bad use of yuri.

I wonder why. XD I'm usually indifferent to most yuri though, so that's not much of a problem for me, either way. Still, some may be bothered by this sort of thing.

8. Suzaku is stupidly annoying.
Suzaku is interesting, however, in that he's annoying on the surface but also has his own reasons and even some development, for better or for worse. I don't think he's really a bad point at all.


7. The show just keeps piling on with too many characters.

9. Poor character development for the Black Knights - they're just kind of "there" but they're not as compelling as the main cast.

These two are related and yes, I suppose that's right. How bad this is depends on how much one expects from the secondary or tertiary members of the cast.

[Noodle]

Wow, thanks to all so far; I especially appreciate the detailed responses which help a lot. I admit I've leaned on GL from the outset, having been interested in it from the beginning, but the hype about CG keeps me from writing that one off. GL sounds like something I really will like though - I really like my action anime to have those themes mentioned - so I'll probably do that one first, but I'm definitely interested in hearing more about Code Geass, too.

[Vicserr]

Both are good IMHO Gurren Lagann is a tribute to the golden age of Super Robot shows, Code Geass is a Real Robot show, some akin to mixing Gundam with a little High School Dramedy mix in for effect (Zegapain also has this).

[danth78]

Every time I try to watch another episode of Gurren Lagann I am blown away at how utterly terrible the show is, from incredibly lazy artwork to the insipidly stupid story and dialogue. The story might be compelling to an 8 year old, but shouldn't be to anyone older. (Then again I was never into super-robot stuff)

Gurren Lagann is ushering in a new low of animation quality using a new cost cutting technique: the shadow on the dark side of a character's face follows a straight line instead of the actual contours of the character's face!

I watched a bit of Code Geass and, despite me never liking anything by Clamp, I actually thought it was decent.

[something]

The story might be compelling to an 8 year old, but shouldn't be to anyone older.
Gee, thanks. Can't stop at criticizing the show, and have to take a swipe at its fans too? Was it necessary?

Gurren Lagann is ushering in a new low of animation quality using a new cost cutting technique: the shadow on the dark side of a character's face follows a straight line instead of the actual contours of the character's face!
As subjective as animation is, this seems like a good case of saying "low animation quality" when it's more a matter of the style not appealing to you. There are some genuinely bad episodes, such as the infamous episode 4. I think 9 gets pretty weak too. But for the most part this was in my opinion an incredibly well animated show, even if not in a style or with the type of character designs I'm usually attracted to. No, I wasn't impressed with it visually after episode one, but as I went on it really started to click outside the problem episodes mentioned above. The fluidity and sense of scale and of the weight behind the attacks really sold itself incredibly well.

[Fencedude]

Gurren Lagann is ushering in a new low of animation quality using a new cost cutting technique: the shadow on the dark side of a character's face follows a straight line instead of the actual contours of the character's face!


Which is of course distinct from the old lows in low quality animation, which is of course fine because they were used in shows made before 2000.

[LenMiyata]

Grumble Grumble Grumble
I watched a bit of Code Geass and, despite me never liking anything by Clamp, I actually thought it was decent.
Now as far as Code Geass is concerned, CLAMP was only responsible for the character designs, as they were hired to do so by Sunrise Studio, which is responsible for everything else about this series...

[a fist of JUSTICE!!]

Gurren Lagann is sort of like a tribute to Super Robot shows from the 70s, so it's over-the-top and ridiculous, but damned fun. In spite of that, though, the show has a serious story and great character development. It's excellent and I can't recommend it enough.

Code Geass... well. The first season is great, despite somewhat of a slow start and a rushed ending. The second season starts out good, but it quickly moves away from what made the first so enjoyable, and progressively gets worse. I dropped it at episode 18.

[Buckeye]

I am currently following both series, but I prefer Code Geass. Simply put, it's all about the things that Zero does.

[Kirarakim]

As subjective as animation is, this seems like a good case of saying "low animation quality" when it's more a matter of the style not appealing to you. There are some genuinely bad episodes, such as the infamous episode 4. I think 9 gets pretty weak too. But for the most part this was in my opinion an incredibly well animated show, even if not in a style or with the type of character designs I'm usually attracted to. No, I wasn't impressed with it visually after episode one, but as I went on it really started to click outside the problem episodes mentioned above. The fluidity and sense of scale and of the weight behind the attacks really sold itself incredibly well.

People often seem to mix up art style and direction with animation. I can understand if someone says they don't like the character designs of Gurren Lagann but I don't understand how anyone can say it is badly animated.

Anyways here is a more indepth response then my last one:

Anyways I am 26 year old female fan who is not really big on mecha or super robots. Does not care about battles or explosions and certainly does not like fanservice and yet I loved Gurren Lagann. It was a great growing up story with lovable characters that you can't help but care for. After the first couple episodes I really thought it was just going to be a silly action series but it ended up having a lot of heart and a lot more depth than I anticipated.

As for Code Geass it was entertaining and I do think the main lead Lelouch is a great character. However most of the other characters were nothing special or downright annoying. The story also relies heavily on plot twists. I will admit the ending was pretty good but there is a lot of over-the-top ridiculous stuff before you get there. People are saying Code Geass is a serious show but trust me it's really not and I think the best way to enjoy Code Geass is to not take it seriously.

[danth78]

Gurren Lagann is ushering in a new low of animation quality using a new cost cutting technique: the shadow on the dark side of a character's face follows a straight line instead of the actual contours of the character's face!


Which is of course distinct from the old lows in low quality animation, which is of course fine because they were used in shows made before 2000.

Can you name a common cost-cutting or time-saving animation technique of the 80's or early nineties that isn't used today?

[danth78]

The story might be compelling to an 8 year old, but shouldn't be to anyone older.
Gee, thanks. Can't stop at criticizing the show, and have to take a swipe at its fans too? Was it necessary?

Offense is taken, not given. I really do think Gurren Lagann was intended for the 8-year-old demographic. That doesn't mean an adult can't enjoy it, but it does mean an adult will probably will find the story and dialog pretty silly. Hell, I watched Hamtaro and Toma and Friends because they were cute, but I knew damn well they were shows for 8-year-olds.

Gurren Lagann is ushering in a new low of animation quality using a new cost cutting technique: the shadow on the dark side of a character's face follows a straight line instead of the actual contours of the character's face!
As subjective as animation is, this seems like a good case of saying "low animation quality" when it's more a matter of the style not appealing to you. There are some genuinely bad episodes, such as the infamous episode 4. I think 9 gets pretty weak too. But for the most part this was in my opinion an incredibly well animated show, even if not in a style or with the type of character designs I'm usually attracted to. No, I wasn't impressed with it visually after episode one, but as I went on it really started to click outside the problem episodes mentioned above. The fluidity and sense of scale and of the weight behind the attacks really sold itself incredibly well.

The way the animators draw shadows has nothing to do with art style or character designs. The promotional art doesn't feature the cheap technique I'm talking about. It's only in the animation as a time-saving (and therefore cost-cutting) measure. I'm not saying the animation quality of the show as a whole sucks, but that one lazy shadow technique is especially egregious because it looks horrible and it's obviously just done to cut costs, but even worse, I've never seen it before so it appears that the show is pioneering new ways of animation laziness.

[something]

Offense is taken, not given.
I'm really not sure who you thought you were that you could tell people what "should(n't)" be compelling to anyone "older than 8". I also don't see how the basic themes of the show are particularly tied to a specific age bracket - they're pretty universal concepts. And quite a lot of people seem to agree - shows specifically targeted at 8 year olds generally don't sell 20,000+ discs/vol in R2J. Pretty sure it'd get taken off the air right quick if you tried to put it in an 8-year old boy's timeslot on US TV too. And beneath the ever more ridiculous (in a good way) powerup silliness the show throws at us, a lot of us found some pretty compelling characters who grow quite a bit from beginning to end, offering interesting emotional dilemmas and making us feel good when they overcome them. Gurren Lagann is not a deeply philosophical show, and if it were it would have missed the whole point. It's about a large cast of very likable characters battling against absolutely impossible odds where the stakes rise higher and higher by the minute, and that is something I'll find compelling no matter how old I get, at least when it's done this well.

Anyway, marathoned the first half of the show last night, and absolutely loved it once again. Now to go marathon the second half.

[The Adventurer]

The way the animators draw shadows has nothing to do with art style or character designs. The promotional art doesn't feature the cheap technique I'm talking about. It's only in the animation as a time-saving (and therefore cost-cutting) measure. I'm not saying the animation quality of the show as a whole sucks, but that one lazy shadow technique is especially egregious because it looks horrible and it's obviously just done to cut costs, but even worse, I've never seen it before so it appears that the show is pioneering new ways of animation laziness.

What are you even talking about? Gurren Lagann has some of the lushest most dynamic art in motion I've ever come across in Anime. The fact that the mecha battles are all hand drawn and not CG is a testament to the fact that they didn't "cost cut" anywhere (at least no more that most TV show do because they are on a budget)

[EmperorBrandon]

Neither are really the kind of show I tend to go for, but I've gotten to try them out thanks to the TV airing. I've found Code Geass much more entertaining the Gurren Lagann myself. It's got some interesting characters and plot twists, and I've liked catching it. Gurren Lagann has its good moments too (so I can see a little why the hype), but it really hasn't grabbed me as much.

[Vicserr]

Yes, Gurren Lagann it's a show for 8 years olds... from 35 years ago, the show has likable characters with a healthy amount of hot blooded-ness that grow in a storyline that mirrors the Golden Age of Super Robot shows, where heroes took a stand to save their world and their loved ones from the enemies of humanity. It's no a Go Nagai show but it's extremely cool.

[Fencedude]

Can you name a common cost-cutting or time-saving animation technique of the 80's or early nineties that isn't used today?

Not the point. And you know it.

The average anime TV series now has MUCH better animation than the average anime series of the 70s/80s/90s

[Fencedude]

What are you even talking about? Gurren Lagann has some of the lushest most dynamic art in motion I've ever come across in Anime. The fact that the mecha battles are all hand drawn and not CG is a testament to the fact that they didn't "cost cut" anywhere (at least no more that most TV show do because they are on a budget)

danth hates everything made after 1996.

[The Adventurer]

What are you even talking about? Gurren Lagann has some of the lushest most dynamic art in motion I've ever come across in Anime. The fact that the mecha battles are all hand drawn and not CG is a testament to the fact that they didn't "cost cut" anywhere (at least no more that most TV show do because they are on a budget)

danth hates everything made after 1996.

Welp, that explains a bit. What makes 1996 some magical cut off year? Any particular reasoning?

Also, I wouldn't quite say animation is particularly better then the 90s. I think the 90s did some incredible things with hand drawn animation. But 00s animation is a lot crisper due to digital coloring. Which is pretty sweet.

[something]

Also, I wouldn't quite say animation is particularly better then the 90s. I think the 90s did some incredible things with hand drawn animation. But 00s animation is a lot crisper due to digital coloring. Which is pretty sweet.
It took a little bit before it settled down - some shows right on the borderline seem pretty bad in retrospect, I remember GTO, I think it was, literally switched from one to the other between eps, and it was not for the better initially. But now that digital coloring has long since become able to express every bit the range of shades and emotion old animation could, I definitely like it a lot more. That and I just like character designs far, far more now too on average, which is the big thing for me. There's good and bad no matter what era, but I'd never want to return to how things were in the past.

[danth78]

What are you even talking about? Gurren Lagann has some of the lushest most dynamic art in motion I've ever come across in Anime. The fact that the mecha battles are all hand drawn and not CG is a testament to the fact that they didn't "cost cut" anywhere (at least no more that most TV show do because they are on a budget)Haha, like I said, I'm not saying the animation sucks completely. I'm just bitching about that one technique. Come on, are you even reading my posts?


Can you name a common cost-cutting or time-saving animation technique of the 80's or early nineties that isn't used today?

Not the point. And you know it.Actually, it's not the point. You brought up the whole old anime/new anime thing. But since you did, I figured I'd go with it. You can't think of one, can you?

The average anime TV series now has MUCH better animation than the average anime series of the 70s/80s/90sI haven't even seen a ton of TV series, but I imagine you're likely right. Honestly, I'm more of an OAV and movie anime fan, so I kind of have unfair standards for TV anime. Then again, it's not unfair to say the anime industry as a whole is sucking because they rarely make any OAVs these days.

danth hates everything made after 1996.Hey, that's only 90% true. I like Haruhi, The Gokusen, Crest of the Stars, Lain, Buttobi CPU, and other stuff. I find GitS:SAC completely watchable. I just don't find the character designs and animation of modern anime (which is mostly TV shows) as compelling as those of older OAVs (which is what I primarily watch).

Welp, that explains a bit. What makes 1996 some magical cut off year? Any particular reasoning?1996 is right around the time when they stopped making Sci-Fi OAVs. There was a recession in Japan in the early nineties, and it seemed to kill off OAVs by around '96.

[LenMiyata]

Grumble Grumble Grumble

Can you name a common cost-cutting or time-saving animation technique of the 80's or early nineties that isn't used today?

Not the point. And you know it.Actually, it's not the point. You brought up the whole old anime/new anime thing. But since you did, I figured I'd go with it. You can't think of one, can you?
Actually, there is one... The use of off the street labor to paint in the color fills of animation cells... With the introduction of CGI workstation technology starting in the late 1990s, not only did this rapidly become obsolete, but introduced the era of the use of expanded colors in character animation. The days of 8 to 16 color character animation is now gone forever...

[Ashyukun]

OK, first off- I've only seen the first disc (5 episodes) of Geass, and finally watched the last 3/5 or so of Gurren Lagann a few weeks ago- but from what I've seen of Geass I'd say that I definitely liked Gurren Lagann better than I'm liking Geass. I definitely enjoy Geass, and will be continuing to pick it up and watch it- but unless it pulls some serious tricks out of its hat it's going to be extremely hard pressed to top the last stretch of episodes in Gurren Lagann.

[danth78]

Grumble Grumble Grumble

Can you name a common cost-cutting or time-saving animation technique of the 80's or early nineties that isn't used today?

Not the point. And you know it.Actually, it's not the point. You brought up the whole old anime/new anime thing. But since you did, I figured I'd go with it. You can't think of one, can you?
Actually, there is one... The use of off the street labor to paint in the color fills of animation cells... With the introduction of CGI workstation technology starting in the late 1990s, not only did this rapidly become obsolete, but introduced the era of the use of expanded colors in character animation. The days of 8 to 16 color character animation is now gone forever...

Interesting, but do you really think hiring people was a cost cutting technique? That's not even a technique, it's just staffing. I'd say using computers in the first place is a cost cutting technique. As for colors, reality has infinite color resolution; you can mix cel paints to get any color you want, so I don't see why people propogate this myth that anime has more colors now.

[The Adventurer]

1996 is right around the time when they stopped making Sci-Fi OAVs. There was a recession in Japan in the early nineties, and it seemed to kill off OAVs by around '96.

Hmmm... well we are on the same page here. I do love my lates 80s/early 90s Sci-Fi OVAs and wonder why there aren't as many today.

[JackProton]

I for vote Gurren Lagann for the subversive anti-authoritarian themes as well as the crazy upward spiral in epic scale.

[LenMiyata]

Grumble Grumble Grumble

Can you name a common cost-cutting or time-saving animation technique of the 80's or early nineties that isn't used today?

Not the point. And you know it.Actually, it's not the point. You brought up the whole old anime/new anime thing. But since you did, I figured I'd go with it. You can't think of one, can you?
Actually, there is one... The use of off the street labor to paint in the color fills of animation cells... With the introduction of CGI workstation technology starting in the late 1990s, not only did this rapidly become obsolete, but introduced the era of the use of expanded colors in character animation. The days of 8 to 16 color character animation is now gone forever...

Interesting, but do you really think hiring people was a cost cutting technique? That's not even a technique, it's just staffing. I'd say using computers in the first place is a cost cutting technique. As for colors, reality has infinite color resolution; you can mix cel paints to get any color you want, so I don't see why people propogate this myth that anime has more colors now.
Character designs created with the intent for unskilled labor to perform the color fill is a cost saving technique. (Think back of all the early to mid-90s Anime series that have the main character performing a part time cell painting job for extra cash) As far as mixing custom colors goes, this would be true for a skilled and experienced painter, (such as a background artist. Some of those early 90s OVA such as Tenchi Muyo and El Hazard had wonderful backgrounds, though less so for the lower cost TV series of that era), but not for a part-time worker hired off of the street. Production deadlines wouldn't have allowed the custom mixing of paint per cell regardless. The increased use of color through CGI technology is no myth. You can look at mainstream TV series ( such as the award winning Eureka Seven, produced by Studio BONES ) who's use of color, and fluid animation quality through high frame rates, that easily rivals the quality of the best of the OVA production of the 1990s

[Fencedude]

Interesting, but do you really think hiring people was a cost cutting technique? That's not even a technique, it's just staffing. I'd say using computers in the first place is a cost cutting technique. As for colors, reality has infinite color resolution; you can mix cel paints to get any color you want, so I don't see why people propogate this myth that anime has more colors now.

Because a computer can create every color a human eye could ever possibly distinguish? And anime nowadays does have better color depth, and a bunch of other things that simply were not possible before the days of the computer assited animation and digital paint. You just could not do them with cells, or if you could, it would take an expert animator and inbetweener and unbelievably long time to do so.

Also, cost cutting techniques and bad animation/art are not, in fact, synonymous.

[danth78]

Character designs created with the intent for unskilled labor to perform the color fill is a cost saving technique. (Think back of all the early to mid-90s Anime series that have the main character performing a part time cell painting job for extra cash) As far as mixing custom colors goes, this would be true for a skilled and experienced painter, (such as a background artist. Some of those early 90s OVA such as Tenchi Muyo and El Hazard had wonderful backgrounds, though less so for the lower cost TV series of that era), but not for a part-time worker hired off of the street. Production deadlines wouldn't have allowed the custom mixing of paint per cell regardless. The increased use of color through CGI technology is no myth. You can look at mainstream TV series ( such as the award winning Eureka Seven, produced by Studio BONES ) who's use of color, and fluid animation quality through high frame rates, that easily rivals the quality of the best of the OVA production of the 1990s

Yeah, mixing cel paint is probably a pain in the butt, and I'm sure computers make color management easier and more cost effective. So while I do think cel painting has just as much possibility for color resolution, computers probably make it more practical. I just wish more shows took advantage of the possibilities like Eureka Seven did. Also, I would happily trade in some color resolution for more vibrant colors. For some reason anime these days tend to look washed out to me, although everyone else says the opposite. I'll look for some animation stills to demonstrate what I mean.

Also, cost cutting techniques and bad animation/art are not, in fact, synonymous.For sure. Sometimes you can find a better, more efficient way of doing something, and if it's cheaper, then great. But sometimes people just take lazy shortcuts, and it makes animation that looks worse.

[Fencedude]

Yeah, mixing cel paint is probably a pain in the butt, and I'm sure computers make color management easier and more cost effective. So while I do think cel painting has just as much possibility for color resolution, computers probably make it more practical. I just wish more shows took advantage of the possibilities like Eureka Seven did. Also, I would happily trade in some color resolution for more vibrant colors. For some reason anime these days tend to look washed out to me, although everyone else says the opposite. I'll look for some animation stills to demonstrate what I mean.

Oh please do. This should be very interesting.


For sure. Sometimes you can find a better, more efficient way of doing something, and if it's cheaper, then great. But sometimes people just take lazy shortcuts, and it makes animation that looks worse.

Yes. And its always been that way.

But lifting up one example from GURREN LAGANN of all things, and an example no one here even remembers, is not a good way of making your point.

When was this "straight line shadow" used. Provide a screencap.

[godofchaos]

I'll go with Gurren.

Just feel it's more entertaining.

[something]

When was this "straight line shadow" used. Provide a screencap.
I think I saw what he's talking about when I just did my rewatch this season, but it's just beyond my comprehension to figure out how that would get someone riled up. Never for a second would have noticed it if he didn't say anything, and even after he did I really couldn't see how it was a problem.

[Ryusuke]

Apples and oranges.

Comparing Code Geass and Gurren would get you nowhere. One's plagued with melodrama and a teenager attempting to twart an empire, and the other is a super robot comedy that is a coming of age story. Nothing really bring anything new to the table.

Admittingly, Code Geass' first season is good. It didn't start very well, but as it build up, it became very engaging. However, sad to say, most of the characters aren't very memorable and even flat. The only characters worth paying attention to are Lelouch and Suzaku. Then, season two came along and dropped the ball. It was plagued with poor writing and senseless fanservice.

Gurren Lagann is what you'd expect from a super robot anime. However, it makes the robot of the week formula more enjoyable and flows with the plot. The characters are fun to see interact and grow. It's pretty funny too. But, fanservice is still around here, but it wasn't too much of a hinderance as with Code Geass. They begin to lessen as the series goes on. Again, the plot doesn't add anything new to the plate. But, once the show picks up (episode 7), the show becomes a blast to see. The action and animation are sharp and intense. But, if there's one flaw I can give this, it's that some could find it a bit campy. But, not too campy, however.

Either way, it's your call. Try watching 10 episodes of each of the series and see which you like back.

[Kusaja]

Nothing really bring anything new to the table.


Perhaps, but both can be quite entertaining. ;) On that note, a couple of comments.

However, sad to say, most of the characters aren't very memorable and even flat. The only characters worth paying attention to are Lelouch and Suzaku. Then, season two came along and dropped the ball. It was plagued with poor writing and senseless fanservice.

Purely in terms of character development, I'd agree those two stand out above almost everyone else. There's a number of other characters who are fun to watch and see interact though, even if they might not be as developed or simply remain relatively static, thus I wouldn't say none of them are memorable. The writing suffered due to pacing problems together with an overuse of plot twists, but I think it's otherwise more uneven than poor, all across the board, given the show's theatrical and ridiculously over the top nature. Granted, Gurren Lagann follows a roughly similar pattern but still has a tighter script and that's hard to argue against.

As for the fanservice, it never really bothered me that much in either series...since when is fanservice supposed to be anything but senseless? I just rolled with it.

[mato45]

As for Code Geass it was entertaining and I do think the main lead Lelouch is a great character. However most of the other characters were nothing special or downright annoying. The story also relies heavily on plot twists. I will admit the ending was pretty good but there is a lot of over-the-top ridiculous stuff before you get there. People are saying Code Geass is a serious show but trust me it's really not and I think the best way to enjoy Code Geass is to not take it seriously.

People say that it has ridiculous plot twists but almost always manage to not give an example so that other people can judge for themselves on its ridiculousness.

Apples and oranges.
Admittingly, Code Geass' first season is good. It didn't start very well, but as it build up, it became very engaging. However, sad to say, most of the characters aren't very memorable and even flat. The only characters worth paying attention to are Lelouch and Suzaku. Then, season two came along and dropped the ball. It was plagued with poor writing and senseless fanservice.


Frankly most real robot series focus in on two rivals with the rest of the characters having a fair amount less characterization. As far as poor writing you are probably right on that at times but as far as senseless fanservice all I can think of is the instance of Kallen in a bunny-girl outfit...in a casino...blending in with other bunny-girls....maybe I am blind to fanservice but even so I'm not sure how much of a detriment it should be to a person's viewing experience..

Personally this is one of my favorite anime.

[Kirarakim]

People say that it has ridiculous plot twists but almost always manage to not give an example so that other people can judge for themselves on its ridiculousness.

I don't really see the point of spoiling plot twists in a recommendation thread. I would think people can judge for themselves if they actually watch the series.

[mato45]

People say that it has ridiculous plot twists but almost always manage to not give an example so that other people can judge for themselves on its ridiculousness.

I don't really see the point of spoiling plot twists in a recommendation thread. I would think people can judge for themselves if they actually watch the series.

Well I suppose that is true but I was more upset at other people doing that then you in this case. Though on the other hand I would call this one of the situations the spoiler tag was made for... or just using a ridiculous plot twist that isn't that spoilerific.. or both. I just don't like people listing things as a con without really explaining why. This is somewhat a personal preference so I certainly don't blame people (much) for not doing so I just wish it was a more common practice.

Like a person reviews a movie and says it was very racy and leaves it at that. But it turns out the only thing in the movie was a girl took her top off and we saw her back. The vagueness of the review would hold some people back from seeing an otherwise good movie due to a vague opinion. Now of course that example is less of a spoiler but I hope my point shines through.

[something]

Though on the other hand I would call this one of the situations the spoiler tag was made for... or just using a ridiculous plot twist that isn't that spoilerific.. or both. I just don't like people listing things as a con without really explaining why.
While I agree that pros and cons are the point of these threads, they can and should be done without spoiling, even using tags. After all, if you have to spoiler tag it then it's of no use to the people who these threads are targeted at - people who haven't seen it. Discussing details like that is better suited to the discussion thread.

[PioneerB]

I've been able to look at both shows enough to come up with an opinion, but mine prolly doesn't matter in this case. I actaully thought GL was more enjoyable than CG because you had a more comical atmosphere in Lagann, while Geass was mainly melodrama, though that wasn't a bad thing. The other thing that I found going for GL was the charas. There were plenty of fun people in there you could root for, hehe, plus they managed to find closure in the ending (which I won't spoil). Lastly, take note of the end boss...

[mato45]

Though on the other hand I would call this one of the situations the spoiler tag was made for... or just using a ridiculous plot twist that isn't that spoilerific.. or both. I just don't like people listing things as a con without really explaining why.
While I agree that pros and cons are the point of these threads, they can and should be done without spoiling, even using tags. After all, if you have to spoiler tag it then it's of no use to the people who these threads are targeted at - people who haven't seen it. Discussing details like that is better suited to the discussion thread.

Well for me anyway that information helps me get a general feel for a show and only somewhat effects my latter enjoyment of said show since I forget the spoilers details and just take a general feeling about the show.

So maybe the compromise would be for people to put their actual opinions in the discussion thread and tell those that want to know to look there. However I honestly don't see how that would be much different from spoiler tagging it.

At the very least people should explain themselves better on non spoiler topics, then again this is the internet even if it is a very awesome corner of the internet a part of the internet it is none the less.

[JackProton]

...After all, if you have to spoiler tag it then it's of no use to the people who these threads are targeted at - people who haven't seen it. Discussing details like that is better suited to the discussion thread.

Exactly.


....
So maybe the compromise would be for people to put their actual opinions in the discussion thread and tell those that want to know to look there. However I honestly don't see how that would be much different from spoiler tagging it.

At the very least people should explain themselves better on non spoiler topics, then again this is the internet even if it is a very awesome corner of the internet a part of the internet it is none the less.

Pointing to a discussion thread in General Anime is fine. Filling up an entire thread here with blacked-out spoiler-proofed paragraphs, however, only makes it difficult for other people trying to decide whether to pick up the series. Recommendations is a place where people share their tastes and opinions as a service to others. The people trying to wade through these opinions to make a decision will, sooner or later, come to know whose tastes are most like their own and will also undoubetly ask questions if they feel something needs clarified.

Debating critical points in vague and general terms is preferred here in Recommendations for these reasons. In this specific case, you might for example, want to discuss what made the plot work so well for you.

[mato45]

...After all, if you have to spoiler tag it then it's of no use to the people who these threads are targeted at - people who haven't seen it. Discussing details like that is better suited to the discussion thread.

Exactly.


....
So maybe the compromise would be for people to put their actual opinions in the discussion thread and tell those that want to know to look there. However I honestly don't see how that would be much different from spoiler tagging it.

At the very least people should explain themselves better on non spoiler topics, then again this is the internet even if it is a very awesome corner of the internet a part of the internet it is none the less.

Pointing to a discussion thread in General Anime is fine. Filling up an entire thread here with blacked-out spoiler-proofed paragraphs, however, only makes it difficult for other people trying to decide whether to pick up the series. Recommendations is a place where people share their tastes and opinions as a service to others. The people trying to wade through these opinions to make a decision will, sooner or later, come to know whose tastes are most like their own and will also undoubetly ask questions if they feel something needs clarified.

Debating critical points in vague and general terms is preferred here in Recommendations for these reasons. In this specific case, you might for example, want to discuss what made the plot work so well for you.

You make very good points.

Ah but that would put me in a pickle sense most of the reasons I liked or disliked shows are somewhat spoilerific....

Due to the human habit of paying attention to bad more than good, dislikes generally should be explained better, but if someone says just "I like it" they will either be adsorbed into the collective positive or forgotten. So it is somewhat less important. (From my understanding.)

[Noodle]

Though on the other hand I would call this one of the situations the spoiler tag was made for... or just using a ridiculous plot twist that isn't that spoilerific.. or both. I just don't like people listing things as a con without really explaining why.

As far as I'm concerned -- and since I'm the OP it should matter ;) -- the plot twists have relevance in whether they add to the show or take away from it. I wanted to know about the show but I don't want to be spoiled on anything. If someone thinks the plot twists make this show suck, I'd like to hear a little more about why, sure, but if it's something that makes the show more entertaining or engaging then I would prefer to discover them on my own.

I think I'll skip the nattering on about animation quality in GL here though, as I find it likely irrelevant to my prospective enjoyment of this particular show. ;)

Again, since my last post, thanks for the opinions by all. I do like melodrama and angst mixed in with empire overthrowing, but it sort of sounds like the momentum doesn't hold up very well in Geass. That's probably my biggest disappointment when it comes to serial anime, so maybe I'll just borrow it. GL it is?

:noodle:

[JackProton]

Ah but that would put me in a pickle sense most of the reasons I liked or disliked shows are somewhat spoilerific....

Due to the human habit of paying attention to bad more than good, dislikes generally should be explained better, but if someone says just "I like it" they will either be adsorbed into the collective positive or forgotten. So it is somewhat less important. (From my understanding.)

The usefulness of an opinion depends, to me, on how well it conveys the spirit of the show so I can make a decision based on my own interests and tastes. As a matter of fact, a particularly informative negative opinion can make me very interested in something just as well as a positive one. The number of opinions positive or negative aren't very important, I'm much more interested in how would you would generally characterize the things you enjoyed and what context you would place them in -- your own reactions/feelings, references or comparisons to other shows or literature, themes, etc.

[JackProton]

GL it is?


Let us know how you liked it.

[something]

Again, since my last post, thanks for the opinions by all. I do like melodrama and angst mixed in with empire overthrowing, but it sort of sounds like the momentum doesn't hold up very well in Geass. That's probably my biggest disappointment when it comes to serial anime, so maybe I'll just borrow it. GL it is?
Code Geass seemed to hold up very, very well for most viewers for about ~45 episodes or so. There was a significant divergence of opinion over the final arc, but I never thought it lost much in the way of momentum or appeal. For me, it was hard to watch at times, but not necessarily in a bad way. My opinion on the final arc - hell, the whole show - did start to rest more and more on how they pulled off the ending though. (Note that I'm talking about "all time top 10" vs "almost top 10 but not quite" here, not "great" vs "suddenly a waste of time"!)

But... they nailed it. Absolutely nailed it. Suddenly all but one or two of my qualms with the series were completely washed away and pretty much everything felt justified. One of the best endings in years.

All that said, yes, Gurren Lagann first. Geass is great, but Gurren Lagann is a class above. Heck, after my rewatch last weekend I even swapped places with Kanon for it (they were #4 and #5 previously) in my top 10. How much that means to you depends on how much you know about my tastes, but suffice to say it's saying a lot that I put Gainax robot show just ahead of a KyoAni Key visual novel adaptation. (Though Clannad is still higher than both!)

[pianocello]

Again, since my last post, thanks for the opinions by all. I do like melodrama and angst mixed in with empire overthrowing, but it sort of sounds like the momentum doesn't hold up very well in Geass. That's probably my biggest disappointment when it comes to serial anime, so maybe I'll just borrow it. GL it is?
Code Geass seemed to hold up very, very well for most viewers for about ~45 episodes or so. There was a significant divergence of opinion over the final arc, but I never thought it lost much in the way of momentum or appeal. For me, it was hard to watch at times, but not necessarily in a bad way. My opinion on the final arc - hell, the whole show - did start to rest more and more on how they pulled off the ending though. (Note that I'm talking about "all time top 10" vs "almost top 10 but not quite" here, not "great" vs "suddenly a waste of time"!)

But... they nailed it. Absolutely nailed it. Suddenly all but one or two of my qualms with the series were completely washed away and pretty much everything felt justified. One of the best endings in years.

All that said, yes, Gurren Lagann first. Geass is great, but Gurren Lagann is a class above. Heck, after my rewatch last weekend I even swapped places with Kanon for it (they were #4 and #5 previously) in my top 10. How much that means to you depends on how much you know about my tastes, but suffice to say it's saying a lot that I put Gainax robot show just ahead of a KyoAni Key visual novel adaptation. (Though Clannad is still higher than both!)


Hmmm...I dunno. I think Code Geass R2 would have been more interesting if they had ended at the end of ep 21.

[Noodle]

But... they nailed it. Absolutely nailed it. Suddenly all but one or two of my qualms with the series were completely washed away and pretty much everything felt justified. One of the best endings in years.

Argh, you're not helping!! :sdsmiley:

We've had some similar tastes over the years, by the way.

Well I've fallen back into a huge rewatch of my own (kyou kara maoh), so I probably won't get to a new show for a while anyway. I have time to decide. Unless I cave in the DD sale, that is. :catgirl:

[Kusaja]

Hmmm...I dunno. I think Code Geass R2 would have been more interesting if they had ended at the end of ep 21.

At the time I would have been inclined to agree, but in hindsight that ending would have been too open ended and too similar to you-know-what. In short, not very original.

Continuing past that point was a gamble, to be sure, but in my opinion it mostly worked out alright once the final episode aired.

[HitokiriShadow]

On the flipside, I thought Code Geass started going rapidly downhill in the latter portion of R2 and completely fell apart a few episodes from the end. The final episode was surprisingly good, but the several episodes preceding it were awful.

However, I suspect that a lot of what bothered me about the series would not be much of an issue for you.

[mato45]

On the flipside, I thought Code Geass started going rapidly downhill in the latter portion of R2 and completely fell apart a few episodes from the end. The final episode was surprisingly good, but the several episodes preceding it were awful.

However, I suspect that a lot of what bothered me about the series would not be much of an issue for you.
Funny thing for me is I only noticed some of the downhillness after people complained I suppose I was enthralled with the story and therefore didn't notice so much.

[One Vorlon]

So... the hype around both of these have convinced me to try them. I know only the most cursory of things about both series and haven't seen any of them, outside a few videos and general fangooing on the net. I'm interested in both but can only start with one. I haven't read reviews, because I don't really want to. So which would you recommend over the other, and why?

. . .
I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I'd like to stick my two cents in:

Gurren Lagann is ultimately the story of the two (foster) brothers who lead the Great Revolt, taking humanity out of underground shelters and back to the stars (crushing mutants, giant robots, and aliens in the process). And what distinguishes it from every other giant robot series (whether serious or humorous) is the way that it handles the role of protagonist, and how that colors the series.

During the first half of the show, Kamina (the older brother) is the protagonist, and during his arc, Gurren Lagann is very much a "booze, babes, and big 'bots" show, to the point where it almost verges on self-parody. Like Kamina himself, this arc can be serious, but there are also a lot of visual gags, fanservice, and gratuitous explosions.

However, Kamina is not the one who ultimately leads humanity to its success - that honor goes to Simoun (the younger brother). And just as Kamina's flamboyant extroversion colors the first half, Simoun's quiet and meticulous nature influences the second. So the second half is much more serious - dumping much of immediate humor and fanservice for an exploration of the metaphysics and ethics of the situation (it also offers retroactive explanations for why Kamina was so succesful).

As for Code Geass, it may be the most complicated anime series I've ever watched, because it tries to incorporate elements of every single recognized genre (except for tentacle porn). However, if you strip out the alternate history, giant robots, high school drama, and philosphical debates, Code Geass is the "long lost" explanation of why Mordred "really" chose to revolt against Camelot (with the Mordred-character as protagonist).

As a result, the closest anime to Code Geass would probably be Death Note. Both shows feature protagonists who are trying to change the world using methods that society cannot sanction, and both have antagonists who serve as strong foils for the character while posing ethical questions (such as the best way to deal with an oppressive govt.).

However, if Code Geass has a flaw, its that at times it just has too much going on. The high school drama, military intrigue, conflicting attempts to fix societal problems and theosophy-inspired metaphysics all work, and to an extent are necessary. However, halfway through the first season Code Geass introduces a character in the role of "Dark Lord". And while a Dark Lord could have helped bring the disparate elements together as a unified whole, the way Code Geass brings him in (and gives him an independent agenda to pursue) turns him into the straw that broke the camel's back. Its just one element too many in an already complicated show.

Ultimately, though, if I had to pick just one of the two, I would vote for Code Geass. Brilliant, handsome, and with a wicked sense of the dramatic, Lelouch makes for a wonderful protagonist. So while I enjoyed Gurren Lagann, Code Geass really hooked me. Viva La Revolution!

[jcrharris]

Gurrne Lagann i the best Mecah/Sci-fi series since GaoGiGar FINAL ended. It is totally wrth every penny you put intoi it and has incredible rewatchability.

Code Geass is unintentionally campy and funny and takes itself way to seriously. It the Plan 9 From Outre Space of nime, but without charm of Ed Wood to back it up.

Yeah, get Gurren Lagann, your inner chil will thank you.

James

[JackProton]

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I'd like to stick my two cents in:

Gurren Lagann is ultimately the story of the two (foster) brothers who lead the Great Revolt, .................

However, Kamina is not ...............


TOO MUCH INFORMATION!!!!

[magicalgirlj]

both shows are stongly recamended. But Code Geass is my faveorite

[sawmill]

Conclusion: Gurren Lagann is better than Code Geass.
The problem with this analysis is that I fell asleep during 14 out of the first 16 eps of GL. Not once during CG. So far. It's rare that I can watch anime any time except late at night. After midnight late. So it's pretty telling as to how interesting an anime show is to me simply by the fact of whether I can stay awake or not. In general, I'm not a fan of mecha shows although I really liked RahXephon and Fafner. Watching mecha shows, for me, is about as exciting as going to a NASCAR race. It's rarely about the screeching metal and spewing male hormones. Boring. Not to mention is that the end result is going in circles and winding up pretty much where you started. There needs to be a hell of a party going on in the stands or somewhere else. GL not only did not have a decent party anywhere to be found, it featured a number of characters that I wanted to die by friendly fire (STAT!) and the most ridiculous over-the-top, roll-your-eyeballs-until-they hurt shenanigans since FLCL and Gunbuster 2. GL wound up replacing Cowboy Bebop at the top of my list most over-rated anime shows. By a wide margin. But I did finish it somehow which is fortunate because there seem to be no end of references to it.

[a fist of JUSTICE!!]

Well, uh, of course you don't like Gurren Lagann, you said it yourself:

Watching mecha shows, for me, is about as exciting as going to a NASCAR race.

If you watch a show of a genre you hate, and expect to hate it, then yes, you'll probably hate it.

[sawmill]

Well, uh, of course you don't like Gurren Lagann, you said it yourself:

Watching mecha shows, for me, is about as exciting as going to a NASCAR race.

If you watch a show of a genre you hate, and expect to hate it, then yes, you'll probably hate it.
I don't like the genre but there are individual shows that surprise me. Very much so sometimes. Such as RahXephon and Fafner. It's a case by case basis. CG surprised me. GL did not. A point to consider along with the other posters who say they don't like mecha shows yet liked CG. I didn't. But I did TRY. Back on topic, I still recommend CG over GL.

[itsuka]

I haven't watched Gurren Lagan yet, but Code Geass is that rarest of anime, the one that has my husband demanding it be put on top of the pile immediately after arrival. He watches a lot of anime with me, but it's not high on his priority list (hence our big back log, since I prefer watching together), and he usually wants to watch many non-anime TV series on DVD in between. But Code Geass sparked his interest in an almost unprecedented level when I took out the first batch to check for glitches. I'm impressed... Anyway, I really like the intrigue, the deviousness, the harsh setup and the adult approach they have to story and characters. Reminds me of the very best Gundam series.

[Doom85]

A point to consider along with the other posters who say they don't like mecha shows yet liked CG.

Except plenty of people have said they're not really mecha fans and still enjoy Gurren Lagann.

Heck, my four friends who are into anime have generally different tastes, and the amount of show all five of us enjoy can be counted on one (maybe two) hands, and we all loved Gurren Lagann. So really, that doesn't give it a point below Code Geass.

[Vicserr]

Well, uh, of course you don't like Gurren Lagann, you said it yourself:

Watching mecha shows, for me, is about as exciting as going to a NASCAR race.

If you watch a show of a genre you hate, and expect to hate it, then yes, you'll probably hate it.

To each it's own but for me it's one of the biggest thrills, specially if it is a Go Nagai show or a 70's Super Robot show :beatingheart::nosebleed::beatingheart:

[sawmill]

A point to consider along with the other posters who say they don't like mecha shows yet liked CG.

Except plenty of people have said they're not really mecha fans and still enjoy Gurren Lagann.


Pretty much what I said. With an additional data point. That at least one non-mecha fan (moi) who watched all of GL but didn't like it and fell asleep a lot and fast-forwarded through a number of scense. OTOH, I have really enjoyed watching the 1st 4 DVDs of CG and have not fallen asleep once nor have I fast-forwarded through any scenes. And again, I TRIED to like GL. It just didn't work out.... And with my late night viewing schedule, it's pretty obvious when it doesn't. For comparison, I watched all 75 eps of Ippo in 6 or 7 nights with a lot of those nights ending at 3AM to 5AM. It all depends. On the individual show. For me. GL was not one of those shows. For me.

[Noodle]

Resurrecting my thread to ask.... do I need/will I want to watch the sequel series to Code Geass if I watch the first? I'm -><- this close to buying CG this week at best buy (yay sale?), but I tend to like to get things all at once; I'm wondering if I should wait for series 2 to come out and buy it all together or not.

Side note, because I can only spend so much time searching the glitch discussions, are the discs in the CG sets all fubared? Is a hit and miss sort of thing?

(I'm also buying GL, if anyone cares, re: topic. XD)

[Glorian]

Resurrecting my thread to ask.... do I need/will I want to watch the sequel series to Code Geass if I watch the first? I'm -><- this close to buying CG this week at best buy (yay sale?), but I tend to like to get things all at once; I'm wondering if I should wait for series 2 to come out and buy it all together or not.

Side note, because I can only spend so much time searching the glitch discussions, are the discs in the CG sets all fubared? Is a hit and miss sort of thing?

(I'm also buying GL, if anyone cares, re: topic. XD)

Yes, if you like Code Geass you will without a doubt want the second season, as the first season does not complete the story and ends on a brutal cliffhanger. It's a 'one story divided into two seasons' show, not a 'one story in the first season and another in the second' type.

[something]

Resurrecting my thread to ask.... do I need/will I want to watch the sequel series to Code Geass if I watch the first?
It's not so much a sequel, it's just the next 25 episodes. The first 25 end on... well, it cracks me up just to think about it, but let's just say the most ridiculous cliffhanger ever (or close to it). Especially for people who had to wait nine months to get the rest. :sd:

Geass doesn't conclude anything at 25 because that's only the halfway point of the story.

[Noodle]

It's not so much a sequel, it's just the next 25 episodes. The first 25 end on... well, it cracks me up just to think about it, but let's just say the most ridiculous cliffhanger ever (or close to it). Especially for people who had to wait nine months to get the rest. :sd:

Geass doesn't conclude anything at 25 because that's only the halfway point of the story.

Sweet, thanks you two. I tried looking it up myself but I also had this super fun virus this morning that made me want to throw my computer out the window, and not, you know, spend more time trying to find info I knew you all would have. :P

[something]

Sweet, thanks you two. I tried looking it up myself but I also had this super fun virus this morning that made me want to throw my computer out the window, and not, you know, spend more time trying to find info I knew you all would have. :P
You were better off asking here anyway, so that you don't stumble across spoilers. Geass is an eminently spoilable show, although the sheer ludicrous number of plot twists and red herrings means that any one spoiler (with some major exceptions) will probably be invalidated within two episodes of whenever you get to it. Still best to completely avoid such things in the first place though. Wondering what in the world the lunatic writers are going to do next was the most enjoyable thing about Geass.

[LenMiyata]

Grumble Grumble Grumble

On a side note, just like the original series, which took a 'Notable' Anime TV award at the Tokyo International Anime Fair, 'Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2' took another 'Notable' award last month at the 2009 Tokyo International Anime Fair (Which really make this a must have series for serious Anime collectors.)

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-02-19/ponyo-wins-tokyo-anime-fair-animation-of-the-year

Now I wonder if Bandai Entertainment is going to license the two 'Gurren Lagann' theatrical movies....

[Dizzon]

Edit: was not paying attention to the fact that it was a thread resurrection.

But in response to the present posting; if you liked R1, you might want to avoid R2. I liked R1, but R2 was just silly. I know R2 is just a continuation, but no conclusion would have been better than episode 26 on. Just my opinion.

[Leon_Belmont]

Edit: was not paying attention to the fact that it was a thread resurrection.

But in response to the present posting; if you liked R1, you might want to avoid R2. I liked R1, but R2 was just silly. I know R2 is just a continuation, but no conclusion would have been better than episode 26 on. Just my opinion.

I loved R1, and I loved R2. Opinions are all over the place, but people who hated R1 aren't the ones enjoying R2. It's still the fans of the first season, and they do exist, so I see no reason not to watch it. At the very least, it's not another Gundam Seed, where I actually liked the first one, then watching Destiny makes me vomit a little in my mouth when someone so much as mentions SEED.

[something]

But in response to the present posting; if you liked R1, you might want to avoid R2.
That's like stopping any other show halfway through watching - you're better off not watching at all. It makes no more sense to stop at ep 25 than ep 15 or ep 45.

R2 was fantastic. It had some issues near the end, but when it was on the mark, I thought it was just as good as, or even better than, R1. But honestly, the only thing separating them is time between release. It's still just one show, of 50 episodes, from start to finish.

[Kellory]

Side note, because I can only spend so much time searching the glitch discussions, are the discs in the CG sets all fubared? Is a hit and miss sort of thing?

Since I dont think this was mentioned, to the best of my knowledge all Code Geass set 1 discs are glitched. That is the second disc of the 2 disc sets. Episode 9 if I recall correctly. Now, some players may deal with it better than others. My Oppo 981 plays it just fine. But mine is glitched, and it keeps skipping on my PC's. I'll have to send it to Bandi for replacement. I dont believe they've ever done a recall on them. So emailing them for a replacement is about the only way to go so far as I know. They claimed they were going to replace the glitched versions, but I dont think anyone has gotten one that was. But then again, it's been a few months, so who knows. But if you are getting it from BB it's probably a glitched version as I doubt BB has gotten much in the way of new stock. Especially in a store having the 50% off sale.

And GL is bomb. It makes no sense to me, but damn it's bomb. CG is fun, but I think the first half of Death Note did it better. Lelouch is such a whiner. But then again, I doubt you'd care much about that cause he's also a bishie. :)

[Dizzon]

That's like stopping any other show halfway through watching - you're better off not watching at all. It makes no more sense to stop at ep 25 than ep 15 or ep 45.

R2 was fantastic. It had some issues near the end, but when it was on the mark, I thought it was just as good as, or even better than, R1. But honestly, the only thing separating them is time between release. It's still just one show, of 50 episodes, from start to finish.

Hind-site is always 20-20 I guess. I realize my comment might seem strange, but in the first 25 episodes the series seemed to be building to something other than what it became.

I suppose my expectations were unrealistic; but they usually are. All I am saying is, had I known R2 was going to turn out the way it did....I would have gleefully stopped at episode 25 and assumed my own conclusion to the story.

You said you liked R2, and that's great! To each their own. Don't take my criticism of R2 as a personal attack (and I'm not saying you are, I'm just clearing the air). But to me the second half felt like watching a completely different series.

[joelgundam01]

Side note, because I can only spend so much time searching the glitch discussions, are the discs in the CG sets all fubared? Is a hit and miss sort of thing?

Since I dont think this was mentioned, to the best of my knowledge all Code Geass set 1 discs are glitched. That is the second disc of the 2 disc sets. Episode 9 if I recall correctly.

They fixed the glitch, but never did a recall. In other words, it's a hit or miss. By just looking at the serial numbers, you'll know if you have a glitch disc or not. If the disc has a "Disc Farm" logo near the serial number, then it's the fixed version. If the disc doesn't have a name near the serial number, then it's the glitch disc.

[Westlo]

That's like stopping any other show halfway through watching - you're better off not watching at all. It makes no more sense to stop at ep 25 than ep 15 or ep 45.

R2 was fantastic. It had some issues near the end, but when it was on the mark, I thought it was just as good as, or even better than, R1. But honestly, the only thing separating them is time between release. It's still just one show, of 50 episodes, from start to finish.

Hind-site is always 20-20 I guess. I realize my comment might seem strange, but in the first 25 episodes the series seemed to be building to something other than what it became.

I suppose my expectations were unrealistic; but they usually are.

Actually.... due to the change of timeslot R2 had to get rewritten and apparently Goro (director and main force behind Geass) wasn't happy about his vision being changed. Cecille and Suzaku was one thing that got dropped, Rolo's inclusion was complete fangirl pandering.

I think of r2 the same was KOTR 2, clearly nothing on the first ones, does some stuff great but is really flawed and when you read wha they were suppose to have.. you just sigh.

[mike.motaku]

Not that the pro and con debate hasn't been endlessly fascinating, (it has, and Clamp always wins in my book) but how prevalent are bad copies of Gurren Lagann? I got sufficiently burned on the sub-only release and Bandai's seemingly endless problems with their replicator that I've been waiting for as-near-to-perfect-as-should-be-an-everyday-occurrence-10-years-into-the-dvd-age copies to hit the market.

Have they? Or is Gurren Lagann doomed to be hit or miss for the rest of it's sojourn in R1-Land?

[Noodle]

They fixed the glitch, but never did a recall. In other words, it's a hit or miss. By just looking at the serial numbers, you'll know if you have a glitch disc or not. If the disc has a "Disc Farm" logo near the serial number, then it's the fixed version. If the disc doesn't have a name near the serial number, then it's the glitch disc.

Ahh, good to know. Thanks. I'll keep my eye out for these... but I'll probably end up waiting at this point. I just wish they'd gotten in the second GL set though. :/

[Kusaja]

Actually.... due to the change of timeslot R2 had to get rewritten and apparently Goro (director and main force behind Geass) wasn't happy about his vision being changed. Cecille and Suzaku was one thing that got dropped, Rolo's inclusion was complete fangirl pandering.

I think of r2 the same was KOTR 2, clearly nothing on the first ones, does some stuff great but is really flawed and when you read wha they were suppose to have.. you just sigh.
I seriously doubt they had all of what would become R2 already written in the first place, beyond some initial ideas, but it is true the plans definitely changed, which meant dropping or changing some subplots.

R2 is flawed, but in my opinion it's not nearly bad enough to make it unenjoyable. For instance, the writer has also stated that the ending to R2 closely resembles what they originally had in mind, so you could argue that the changes affected how the season was executed, but not to the point of not having any resemblance to what was intended. After all, the same people worked on it and even Taniguchi seems to have already gotten over any issues he had with it at the time (he's apparently going to be on the last audio commentary and didn't have much of a problem talking about the show on TV recently).

[Leon_Belmont]

Either way, just because R2 was flawed doesn't mean it was worse that what was intended. It's just another what if argument. Good show still I thought even with a decent share of BS moments.

[JINROH]

What are you even talking about? Gurren Lagann has some of the lushest most dynamic art in motion I've ever come across in Anime. The fact that the mecha battles are all hand drawn and not CG is a testament to the fact that they didn't "cost cut" anywhere (at least no more that most TV show do because they are on a budget)

danth hates everything made after 1996.


Well that explains it.


Resurrecting my thread to ask.... do I need/will I want to watch the sequel series to Code Geass if I watch the first?
It's not so much a sequel, it's just the next 25 episodes. The first 25 end on... well, it cracks me up just to think about it, but let's just say the most ridiculous cliffhanger ever (or close to it). Especially for people who had to wait nine months to get the rest. :sd:

Geass doesn't conclude anything at 25 because that's only the halfway point of the story.


So then,does that mean I shouldn't watch the first season,all the way through until I have season two in hand ?

I have most of season one (waiting on LE Part 3 from TRSI),but have not watched past epsidoe 9.

[something]

So then,does that mean I shouldn't watch the first season,all the way through until I have season two in hand ?
Up to you, really. Most people managed to survive nine months between 25 and 26/R2ep1 (and a couple months between 23 and 24), so you can watch it now and probably not combust on the spot. =P Depends on how much cliffhangers bother you. If you've only seen to 9 anyway, then it couldn't hurt to wait until closer to R2 part 1 release date to finish R1, I guess.

[Vegard Aune]

Not that the pro and con debate hasn't been endlessly fascinating, (it has, and Clamp always wins in my book) but how prevalent are bad copies of Gurren Lagann? I got sufficiently burned on the sub-only release and Bandai's seemingly endless problems with their replicator that I've been waiting for as-near-to-perfect-as-should-be-an-everyday-occurrence-10-years-into-the-dvd-age copies to hit the market.

Have they? Or is Gurren Lagann doomed to be hit or miss for the rest of it's sojourn in R1-Land?
I'd like to know this too. I decided quite a while ago that I'd get Gurren Lagann, but seeing how, unlike Code Geass, I have never seen the series before, I'd rather be able to watch it WITHOUT having the episodes suddenly freezing at certain spots.

[JackProton]

I'd like to know this too. I decided quite a while ago that I'd get Gurren Lagann, but seeing how, unlike Code Geass, I have never seen the series before, I'd rather be able to watch it WITHOUT having the episodes suddenly freezing at certain spots.

This discussion might be more appropriate to the Glitch forum.