Shows with varying animation quality?

[yabasugi]

Have any of you notice any weird variations in the animation quality for shows that originally aired on televsion? Such as when a show might look pretty and polished on one episode, but later starts to nose-dive for some reason (like for Gurren Lagann's 4th episode).

I've heard this is common when watching fansubs as opposed to watching a DVD release.

[something]

I've heard this is common when watching fansubs as opposed to watching a DVD release.
Well it has nothing to do with fansubs vs dvd so much as original TV broadcast version vs home video version. When shows first air on TV in Japan they may often be hit with tight schedules and tighter budgets, and so certain episodes get farmed out to really poor quality animators or things are just generally rushed overall and the episode looks like crap. When those shows come out on DVD, it's not uncommon for the studio to go back and "fix" the rushed scenes. Obviously, it's this DVD version that we get in R1, almost every time. Since that is the home video version it has the fixed animation.

One major example is Tsukuyomi ~Moon Phase~ episode 12, which was barely animated at all on the initial airing, with long scenes of action or dialog taking place against nearly empty screens with no visible characters. It was absolutely awful. When it came time to release it on DVD, they went back and totally redid the episode. That fixed ep is of course what we got with Funi's R1 release.

But some shows never fix their weaker animation bits. Like Welcome to the NHK, which got downright awful at times.

[yabasugi]

I've heard this is common when watching fansubs as opposed to watching a DVD release.
Well it has nothing to do with fansubs vs dvd so much as original TV broadcast version vs home video version.
Ah... well I guess that was sort of what I meant originally. :) I usually associate fansubs with what stuff that has aired on Japanese television.

[GanChan]

During the transition from cel to digital animation, some shows tried to combine the two with wonky results, notably Gokudo, Lost Universe, and Silent Mobius TV.

The prize for off-model artwork, however, should probably go to Boys Be for the couple of episodes where all the girls seem to have morphed into Amazons from another solar system.

[Sensuifu]

The prize for off-model artwork, however, should probably go to Boys Be for the couple of episodes where all the girls seem to have morphed into Amazons from another solar system.

Yes, Boys Be... hands down. Quasimodo is that you?

[BonifaceVIII]

The prize for off-model artwork, however, should probably go to Boys Be for the couple of episodes where all the girls seem to have morphed into Amazons from another solar system.
HAAAAY YOOOU GUYYYS!

[Sensuifu]

The prize for off-model artwork, however, should probably go to Boys Be for the couple of episodes where all the girls seem to have morphed into Amazons from another solar system.
HAAAAY YOOOU GUYYYS!

Yup! I mentioned that in the past and it's exactly how they look. :sweat:

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

Some of the middle episodes of Haibane Renmei take a dive in animation quality, but then it picks back up by the last episodes.

Princess Nine has very inconsistent animation throughout (did each animator get a different set of character model sheets? :sd:), but the story more than makes up for it.

Witch Hunter Robin also has a few episodes where character models just seem "off".

[Ty]

Shows of every budget suffer from this to some extent due to the tight scheduling anime production is under. Good producers and directors also know how to play it smart and put the money where it does the most good. Then they can go back and touch up the areas that suffered from those choices later on for the DVD release at their leisure. It makes way more sense for a single key-frame animator to fix up some sloppy still scenes for a DVD release that it would to try to spruce up an ugly looking action scene with many frames in it, so I think they have the right idea personally.

[Westlo]

Every tv series has varying anime quality, Moribito clearly scales back at times during the more slice and life parts (which is just common sense really), Clannad uses cheap speed lines for basketball scenes (the ones in True Tears smoke it), Macross Frontier and Xamdou was never going to keep up with the first episodes which were spectacular, though Xamdou is doing a much better job of it.

I don't mind a slight dip in animation if it gets fixed for dvd, Macross Frontier has been fixing some scenes. (http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk42/Tsuchiros/Frontier/0603.jpg?t=1226649650) TV left, Blueray right, though the real test of the series is episode 8...

[Speedy Boris]

A few Gonzo shows I've watched have some pretty inconsistent animation quality (Burst Angel, Witchblade, Speed Grapher).

[danth78]

The original Macross was probably the worst. The well animated episodes are gorgeous. The not-so-well animated episodes look like garbage.

[joelgundam01]

Witch Hunter Robin also has a few episodes where character models just seem "off".

Outlaw Star is another one.

[Orihimes_Boyfriend]

Something went odd in episode 13 of The Third: The Girl With the Blue Eye.
The character model for Honaka made it look like she had gained like 50 lbs. Thankfully in episode 14 she went back to normal.

[Veren]

Something went odd in episode 13 of The Third: The Girl With the Blue Eye.
The character model for Honaka made it look like she had gained like 50 lbs. Thankfully in episode 14 she went back to normal.

When I saw this topic, this was the first thing I thought of. In fact, I'm pretty sure all the character models were "wonky". It's like the animation staff went on vacation that week and left the anime in the hands of the interns.

[ColoradoJim]

Urusei Yatsura is another one that comes to mind. It does mostly have an understandable reason though since it ran for so long so that there were different character designers and animation teams for the entire run. Some of the OVAs had very bad animation and character design though, notably "The Terror of Girly-Eyed Measles" although I loved the plot of that one. There are quite a few differences in how Lum looks when you watch the entire run.

[Vegard Aune]

Do extremely long-running shows that are obviously impossible to do without several animation-teams count? Because then I can mention two rather obvious examples: One Piece and Dragonball. Both shows range disjointedly from animation that's actually pretty awesome in some episodes, to straight out horrible animation in the next. (The best example I can think of regarding this would be in Dragonball Z, when Trunks kills Freeza, where you first see the scene with absolutely fantastic animation at the end of one episode, then it's shown again at the start of the next, only now it looks absolutely terrible.)

[Speedy Boris]

Something went odd in episode 13 of The Third: The Girl With the Blue Eye.
The character model for Honaka made it look like she had gained like 50 lbs. Thankfully in episode 14 she went back to normal. I've gotta see screenshots of this. It can't be as bad as Yashigani... or can it? ;)

[Shiroi Hane]

That one episode of The Third was incredibly sloppy and off model - it was painful to watch.
Gigantic Formula had some quite variable quality eps, which mostly weren't fixed for the DVDs.

[Ryos]

Omg Orphen. Magic Knight Rayearth is the oddest example I've seen because it starts off with a consistently mediocre animation, then approximately 6 episodes before the end goes into really bad animation, and then finally goes to a rather impressive final two episodes that look like they had a higher budget than the rest of the series combined. This isn't just TV though, as the Hakkenden: Legend of the Dog Warriors OVAs would attest to with the most visually jarring anything I've seen yet. Some of those episodes look like they were done by fifth graders.

Unfortunately, when you're trying to make something on a shoestring budget (and more often than not a lot of anime is), you generally run into the case that they'll do whatever they can to minimize costs, and usually that means the last couple episodes especially tend to have a major spiral downward in terms of quality. At least it's better something like that than wasting your whole budget on an OP or ED (I'm looking at you, RoLW TV).

[Daniel_Perales]

Some shows that no one has mentioned yet:

"Angel Links" - The first episode was really good, but it starts to downgrade from there. There was one episode that looked absolutly hideous. It was the episode when she discovers who and what she really is.

"Sailor Moon" - All seasons, with the exception of "SuperS" (I don't really remember any bad art and animation that stood out from that season).

"You're Under Arrest! - The first tv series. With the exception of the first few episodes (since they're were from the original OVA series), you get to see a noticable decline in art and animation quality at around the second half of the first season of the show.

"Lyrical Nanoha" - All seasons, including "StrikerS". At least in the broadcast versions, you see how some episodes looks really good, and some, not so good. I think they've cleaned it up on the DVD versions.


Forgot to mention one more: "Violinist of Hamelin" - The first few episodes were about average, but after that, it's just mostly pan and scan on action scenes.



Danny

[Orihimes_Boyfriend]

Yu Yu Hakusho was another one were the characters got a little "Chuncky" as the Dark Tournement episodes were winding down epecialy in the fight with Hiei was Bui they looked realy round in the face area. Also as the team is leaving the island Yusuke's face looked bloated. :laugh:

[LKK]

I remember Kaze no Stigma as being stigmatized by varying animation quality, especially around the middle episodes. The two Vampire Knight series are the worst recent offenders in my opinion. Their animation quality especially with regards to character design can change from shot to shot within the same scene. The animation irregularity severely hurts what would otherwise be nicely done shows.

[Rando]

I thought this was the case with most TV series? Most, if not all Toei series have this problem. Just look at Sailor Moon.

[Thomas Alan]

His and Her Circumstances.

[JTurner]

As Ryos mentioned, Lodoss TV has an absolutely breathtaking OP and ED sequence, but the actual 27 episodes are another story. The quality of the animation on them jumps all over the place, with some looking downright choppy. (I also noticed a LOT of places where the characters were constantly drawn off-model for each episode--there was one in particular where Parn and Deedlit were both abysmally drawn which grated on my eyes.) It DOES get somewhat better toward the end, though. That was probably my only major criticism of an otherwise decent fantasy series, which, although nowhere nearly as good as the original, was still a pretty interesting and entertaining sequel/remake.

Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water had some really nice animation in the opening 22 episodes and especially the final five, but the episodes inbetween (the infamous island/Africa filler) were so painful to watch, not just in the horrendous storylines and characterizations (the worst offense, especially in eps. 26, 32, 33) but with the animation. Other studios were contracted to put them together, with lots of constant off-modeling and sloppy animation. Ironically, the animation of the whole series mimics the quality of each episode! (The best ones are excellently animated, but the worst ones 23-34 are cartoonishly bad.)

The Third had that one poorly animated episode, which obviously looked off-model, although it didn't spoil the show for me (the long, drawn out ending did).

-Jon T.

[Prede]

Not a bad thing, acually a good thing but FLCL animation is all over the place. Each episode looks a little different then the last episode. My favorite is how wacky the animation gets in Episode 4: Full Swing. I mean that episode has some weird looking animation at times. Much different then episode 1, but that was their point of course. In fact the quality and style in each episode changes in the blink of an eye. I guess Gurren Lagann does the same kind of thing oince in awhile as well. but FLCL is the best example.


ROD the TV. They kept adding things to this series. I think the added/edited the art 3 or 4 times, meaning the original TV run was less detailed then the latest DVD's. That's a real change in quality! I mean they wanted it to look perfect for the DVD's I guess.

[Ty]

Do extremely long-running shows that are obviously impossible to do without several animation-teams count?

Bleach. The filler arcs look like they have 1/3 of the show's normal budget. I remember a couple of episodes in particular that just made me cringe.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

Not a bad thing, acually a good thing but FLCL animation is all over the place. Each episode looks a little different then the last episode.

I think in that case it's probably more artistic choice than budget limitations. :sd:

It's also an OVA, so they probably knew from the outset exactly what they had to work with.

[loplop]

I'm surprised no mentioned the cabbage/bowling ball episode (episode 4) of Yoake Mae Yori Ruri Iro Na ~ Crescent Love ~. One of the worst slippages of animation quality I've ever seen from the first episode . . .

[O-chan]

Some shows that no one has mentioned yet:

"Sailor Moon" - All seasons, with the exception of "SuperS" (I don't really remember any bad art and animation that stood out from that season).

"You're Under Arrest! - The first tv series. With the exception of the first few episodes (since they're were from the original OVA series), you get to see a noticable decline in art and animation quality at around the second half of the first season of the show.

Danny

Actually Sailor Moon's animation pattern per season is:

Classic: Mediocre during the Jedite arc but Nepylhte and beyond the animation actually becomes very good with the exception of a few episodes.

R: Starts off with the standard established at the end of the season and gradually improves throughout the Ail and Ann arc continuing throughout the Four Sister arc (ultimately culminating in the Senshi vs. Sisters faceoff in Episode 68) but then after that they bring in a lot of third party animators and the animation gets pasty looking and not as well drawn, even in the season finale.

S:Recieves an animation upgrade and the colors are more vibrant and lines are crisper. Characters are drawn more on model and the tranformations and attacks are near movie quality. There's the occasional off episode but less than the first two seasons.

SuperS: Probably Sailor Moon animation at it's peak. Consistently good.

Stars: Starts off good but Toei seemed to make a lot of changes in staff and brought on a lot of new animators during this season and Super S. The colors lose that "pastel" feeling they had during the first 4 seasons and the color palette becomes more earth toney. The animation, while good, does jump from episode to episode. But the season finale has some of the best animation I've seen in Sailor Moon.

You're Under Arrest I just marathoned this summer and to me it went from excellent (first 4 episodes) to average during episodes 5-mid 20's. Got really crappy for a majority of the 20's and early 30's then gradually improved until the series finale. The standout episodes being the volleyball episode and the one where Toukarin leaves.

O-chan

[O-chan]

Urusei Yatsura is another one that comes to mind. It does mostly have an understandable reason though since it ran for so long so that there were different character designers and animation teams for the entire run. Some of the OVAs had very bad animation and character design though, notably "The Terror of Girly-Eyed Measles" although I loved the plot of that one. There are quite a few differences in how Lum looks when you watch the entire run.


http://www.furinkan.com/features/articles/director1.html

Go there, that pretty much explains that.

O-chan

[O-chan]

Yu Yu Hakusho was another one were the characters got a little "Chuncky" as the Dark Tournement episodes were winding down epecialy in the fight with Hiei was Bui they looked realy round in the face area. Also as the team is leaving the island Yusuke's face looked bloated. :laugh:


That's because those two particular episodes were directed by Atsushi Wakabayashi who tends to go for a more action-oriented experimental art standard than most directors. He's also responsible for the animation in Naruto when the same thing occurs (Naruto vs. Sasuke).

O-chan

[zero_chance]

Another that stands out in recent memory is Noein: To Your Other Self.

They were obviously experimenting a lot with the art style in the first couple of episodes. First episode was very FLCL sketchy/loose-style, and then episode two switched to a more traditional, well-rendered and vibrant look. Thereafter, the series was more a hybrid of the two styles, where it was vibrant and on-model throughout, but contained more of episode one's non-mainstream sketchy look. And then of course there was episode 12, where everything got super sketchy and stylized for the epic beatdown battle.

[Doom85]

After watching Naruto Shippuden 82, I really wish the studio could afford to have EVERY episode look that good (not to mention a lot of it was filler that was well-written and even better than the canon parts of the episode). Some of the scenes were even movie-quality. The same animator is doing 85, so I'm looking forward to this Friday.

Also, after watching Gurren Lagann Part 1 DVD, I had forgotten how ugly episode 4 was compared to the rest of the episodes. Glad that animation never reared its ugly head again.

[Prede]

Speedgrapher - Everyone said the animation/art in the first and last episodes was much better then the rest of the series. They said the quality level really dropped. I don't see it really, but people do so...

[Kouji Tamino]

Also, after watching Gurren Lagann Part 1 DVD, I had forgotten how ugly episode 4 was compared to the rest of the episodes. Glad that animation never reared its ugly head again.

Eh, not everyone's a fan of Osamu Kobayashi's style. I liked it, although I wouldn't want every episode to look like that. I couldn't stop thinking of Beck though throughout the whole episode, though.

And then of course there was episode 12, where everything got super sketchy and stylized for the epic beatdown battle.
FUCK YEAH SKETCH FIGHT.

...Anyway yeah, Noein was pretty interesting in that regard.

As for my own experiences, episode 14 of Full Metal Panic! comes to mind. That episode was and still is hard to get through. It's one of the worst looking episodes out of everything in my collection. Poor Sousuke especially got the worst of it. He looks like he got beaten with the ugly stick and everyone else looks pretty wonky as well. One friend that I watched it with was absolutely disgusted by it and frequently reminded the rest of us of that fact throughout.

For a more positive example, an episode of Ninja Nonsense/2x2=Shinobuden looked quite different from the rest of the series. The usually cute, round and somewhat plump looking yet still sexy female character designs got really slimmed down in this episode. Round, non-existent chins became more pointed and everything looked a lot more shiny than usual. It was a huge departure from the way the characters look in the manga but very pleasant looking.

[meganly_chan]

Lost Universe's quality seemed to change from scene to scene, not episodes! One second it looks clean and clear, the next it looks sloppy and rushed. I don't know if it was the master ADV got or what, but I'm just baffled about how random it could be.

[Atomsk]

The hakkenden: dogwarriors is notorious. IIRC they paused this series and then continued later on but with completely different art style. At some point it becomes almost impossible to tell what character you're looking at.

I also regret they used two animation teams on the Nanoha series. It's just too obvious to tell them apart and one team is noticably poorer in animation quality with Nanoha looking very stiff with too much static cells. So one episode it's great and then the next is like looking at some puppeteering act with nanoha cut outs being held in front of a scenery. :(

As for Gurren Lagan, well it's bearable.. that episode was intentionally done in that style, not because everyone went on strike and the director had to finish things by himself. A lot of fanboy overreacting there too.

[Doom85]

Eh, not everyone's a fan of Osamu Kobayashi's style. I liked it, although I wouldn't want every episode to look like that. I couldn't stop thinking of Beck though throughout the whole episode, though.

Whoa, don't get me wrong, I loved Beck and its animation. But for TTGL, I felt suddenly changing the animation in an episode where FOUR significant characters are introduced was a poor choice. Episode six would have been a better choice, as only one significant character is introduced ("Gramps"), and you don't really see anything in terms of fanservice you hadn't seen in earlier episodes (unless you're a fangirl dying to see Simon and Kamina's butts....), so no major loss there.

Oh yeah, and as for Noein, I loved the changes in the animation for the fights. Give their bizzare forms of combat, it seemed only natural that the animation would go a little differently.

[something]

Whoa, don't get me wrong, I loved Beck and its animation.
And while it's been some time since I've seen Beck, the designs in that show were never one tenth as bad as TTGL ep 4. I don't think it's so much a matter of the guy's style as just how damn poorly done it was. That and it was just so inappropriate for the show.

[ColoradoJim]

Urusei Yatsura is another one that comes to mind. It does mostly have an understandable reason though since it ran for so long so that there were different character designers and animation teams for the entire run. Some of the OVAs had very bad animation and character design though, notably "The Terror of Girly-Eyed Measles" although I loved the plot of that one. There are quite a few differences in how Lum looks when you watch the entire run.


http://www.furinkan.com/features/articles/director1.html

Go there, that pretty much explains that.

O-chan
I've seen that page before but it really does show how the designs can change for Lum. I wish that Matoba had done more than one episode as I really liked the one Kitsune episode he directed and Lum looks great in that one as well.

[O-chan]

Urusei Yatsura is another one that comes to mind. It does mostly have an understandable reason though since it ran for so long so that there were different character designers and animation teams for the entire run. Some of the OVAs had very bad animation and character design though, notably "The Terror of Girly-Eyed Measles" although I loved the plot of that one. There are quite a few differences in how Lum looks when you watch the entire run.


http://www.furinkan.com/features/articles/director1.html

Go there, that pretty much explains that.

O-chan
I've seen that page before but it really does show how the designs can change for Lum. I wish that Matoba had done more than one episode as I really liked the one Kitsune episode he directed and Lum looks great in that one as well.

Besides that Ranma 1/2 was a FAR worst offender in varying animation quality than UY, MI, and IY combined. Late Season 2, most of Season 3, and parts of Season 4 were the worst offenders yet.

O-chan

[Speedy Boris]

Having just rewatched Gurren Lagann's fourth episode, yikes. The animation is -mostly- the same quality as usual (aside from an ultra choppy section towards the beginning where Simon runs and it looks like just key poses), but the character designs are blocky and overly angular, and the faces are drawn in a very inconsistent manner, often with little detail. Kamina in particular looks hideous, and much older than he actually is. I can see why people complained back when it first aired.

Besides that Ranma 1/2 was a FAR worst offender in varying animation quality than UY, MI, and IY combined. Late Season 2, most of Season 3, and parts of Season 4 were the worst offenders yet.

O-chan What did you think of Ranma 1/2's fifth season in terms of animation? Having watched that recently, I thought it was pretty consistent. I didn't notice any horrifically off-model moments.

[O-chan]

Having just rewatched Gurren Lagann's fourth episode, yikes. The animation is -mostly- the same quality as usual (aside from an ultra choppy section towards the beginning where Simon runs and it looks like just key poses), but the character designs are blocky and overly angular, and the faces are drawn in a very inconsistent manner, often with little detail. Kamina in particular looks hideous, and much older than he actually is. I can see why people complained back when it first aired.

Besides that Ranma 1/2 was a FAR worst offender in varying animation quality than UY, MI, and IY combined. Late Season 2, most of Season 3, and parts of Season 4 were the worst offenders yet.

O-chan What did you think of Ranma 1/2's fifth season in terms of animation? Having watched that recently, I thought it was pretty consistent. I didn't notice any horrifically off-model moments.

My opinion of Ranma animation goes like this:

Season 1: The best in terms of animation quality, looks fresh from the people who just finished MI.

Season 2: The animation style changes, the colors become darker and more muted. There are more not-so-great animation moments very early on and mostly it's just key shots (mostly close ups) where the animation looks normal. Still hold up through most of the season.

Season 3: The animation just becomes putrid. Constantly off model, very little shading, and the colors begin to look extremely washed out.

Season 4: Starts to improve over the previous season, Characters are drawn more on model, the colors go back to being darker and a few new animators come into play.

Seasons 5-7: The characters begin to transition into the OAV style and the animation budget recieves a decent upgrade. There's the occasional "off" episode but no where near the level of Season 3.

O-chan