I just don't get it... Not one damn bit. (On the subject of Evangelion)

[Dbzdude707]

</TTGL reference>

No, this topic is not about TTGL. It's about how much I don't understand another series....

Evangelion.

I watched all 26 episodes and End of Evangelion. But I don't get it! The stuff I saw in the last few episodes I didn't understand (until I looked it up, and apparently a lot of stuff happened that I didn't even realize was happening). And the stuff I wanted to know (like about what the heck Lilith or whatever is, among other things...), it never explained. There's a LOT it never explained. And even after looking it up all I found is more people saying it wasn't explained.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the kind of guy who just loves action and can't stand psychological stuff. I love a good story and I like stuff that makes me think. But this was just too far out there... Some of it was quite disturbing and graphic too.

I'm still confused... What the heck did I just see?

[BonifaceVIII]

Confusion related to Evangelion can usually be attributed to one thing: paying too much attention to the religious/psychological/symbolic stuff.

I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but you actually have to ignore 3/4 of what you see to understand it.

[The Great Bear]

What you saw was Hideaki Anno's nervous breakdown. I'm not kidding. The director of Eva had a mental meltdown near the completion of the TV series. So, he decided to translate that to the screen.

[Fencedude]

Confusion related to Evangelion can usually be attributed to one thing: paying too much attention to the religious/psychological/symbolic stuff.

I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but you actually have to ignore 3/4 of what you see to understand it.

Exactly.

In short: YOU'RE THINKING TOO HARD

[Jimmie M]

What you saw was Hideaki Anno's nervous breakdown. I'm not kidding. The director of Eva had a mental meltdown near the completion of the TV series. So, he decided to translate that to the screen.

Didn't Anno also get hate mail & death threats over how he ended the series? IIRC he made End Of Evangelion as his response to all of the hate mail that he got. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Dbzdude707]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure End of Evangelion was his response to the hate mail. Funny how he only did a worse job of ending it...

So... You're all saying that if I watched it without thinking about it so much, I would actually enjoy it?

Because I really didn't enjoy this very much. I really do like a good anime... But this was too... Weird.

PS. Sorry if the topic title didn't explain it very well, mods. I'm just a newbie here. =D

[Betenoire]

What you saw was Hideaki Anno's nervous breakdown. I'm not kidding. The director of Eva had a mental meltdown near the completion of the TV series. So, he decided to translate that to the screen.

As did the higher ups at Gainax when they decided not to pay income taxes.:)

My feeling on Eva is someone wanted to write something deep and had read some books on Judeo-Christian history and mythology (Lilith was supposed to be Adam's first wife who he rejected because they had "differences" She liked to be on top:) and she was cast away-she also tends to be attributed as the first vampire among other things harsh:() and picked and chose imagery they liked without concern for context of whether it fit together in with the actual religious beliefs versus the world they created. Much like Hollywood does when they write scripts that use Eastern philosophy for example. Probably best to just ride it out and as others have said don't think to hard.

[Fencedude]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure End of Evangelion was his response to the hate mail. Funny how he only did a worse job of ending it...

So... You're all saying that if I watched it without thinking about it so much, I would actually enjoy it?

No, enjoyment is relative. There is no rule saying you have to like Evangelion, if you don't like it, you don't like it.

Because I really didn't enjoy this very much. I really do like a good anime... But this was too... Weird.


Evangelion is not as deep as it makes itself out to be, or some of its partisans like to claim, but conversely, it is not as completely devoid of meaning as some of its more vociferous critics claim.

At its core, its a pretty interesting twist on the standard "coming of age" story that is the heart of most mecha series, most everything else is just decoration.

[Garasharp K7]

Confusion related to Evangelion can usually be attributed to one thing: paying too much attention to the religious/psychological/symbolic stuff.

I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but you actually have to ignore 3/4 of what you see to understand it.

That's how I approached the show the first time I watched it, and I'm pretty sure I could follow what was going on - but for the life of me I can't remember what went on in the last few episodes. (mind you, it's been almost three years since I last sat through the thing, so that might be the reason there)
Now the movies were a different matter. Even after watching 'em a second time, I still had the same reaction of "what the bloody hell was going on?"
One of these days, if I'm ever in the right mood, I'm going to watch that show again.

[BonifaceVIII]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure End of Evangelion was his response to the hate mail. Funny how he only did a worse job of ending it...
That's a strange thing to say when End of Evangelion is exactly the same ending, only from a different point of view.

[Prede]

Well your not the only person who was confused after watching that anime. I'm pretty sure everyone who watched NGE was confused the first time. I think I made some sense out of it. It's got a lot going on, and it's got some real substance there. Takes a few re-watches through, and it's difficult to put everything together. After re-watching it one more time I suggest reading about it. The Wikipedia articles and ANN's "Understanding Evangelion" article. There's more things out there too, like I read this great thing on some site about the ending years ago, but can't find the link right now (sorry), so feel free to look around on the internet. I think everyone has their own opinions on the ending, and it's great to read up on them, and help come up with one for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_(TV)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Evangelion
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2002-06-11

[something]

I was confused but I still liked it a lot, at the time. I'm the sort of person who vastly prefers EoE to the TV ending, although experiencing both is still the best choice.

As others have said... Evangelion isn't devoid of any deep meaning, but if you get to caught up in the specifics, you'll trip yourself up. It doesn't really matter if everything we hear about Lillith and the Lance and Instrumentality meshes together perfectly. Just get the general direction of what's going on, concentrate on the themes rather than the psychobabble, and more importantly than all that, focus on the characters. While I'm not sure how much I "liked" the characters in the end, I was at least interested in what they were doing.

I admit I haven't watched Evangelion in years, though. And I've tried a couple times since then, but I never got far. I think it's a show whose time has come and gone for me, but I still consider it to be a good one.

[LenMiyata]

What you saw was Hideaki Anno's nervous breakdown. I'm not kidding. The director of Eva had a mental meltdown near the completion of the TV series. So, he decided to translate that to the screen.

Didn't Anno also get hate mail & death threats over how he ended the series? IIRC he made End Of Evangelion as his response to all of the hate mail that he got. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Grumble Grumble Grumble

The other thing to keep in mind is that GAINAX Studio also ran out of production budget for the TV series, (I wonder if this issue, and the nervous breakdown are related?!?!) and was forced to abandon the planned ending, replacing them with the infamous last two broadcast episodes

The timing video for episode 25 that was released by ADV Films in the original Platinum Edition release shows that the last two episodes of the TV broadcast were not the originally intended ending for the series. And since all of the scenes from the missing and never broadcast episode 25 appear in the movie 'The End of Evangelion', suggests that the movie is an expanded version of the intended ending...

Hideko Anno did receive hate mail and death threats on that TV ending, (some of which are quoted in the backdrop of some of the Movie scenes), After several years of claiming that there was nothing more for EVA, Hideko Anno shaved his head as a sign of remorse and started production of the EVA movie... Even then, the movie had its problems, and took two tries to get it right. GAINAX Studio was so behind on the production schedule for the movie, that to meet their contractual obligations, they slapped together a rehash of the TV series with a 20 minute trailer of the movie video already completed to make the 'Death & Rebirth' EVA movie.

The Region 1 DVD of 'The End of Evangelion' produced by Manga Entertainment is long out of print, so good luck trying to find a copy of the movie...

[BonifaceVIII]

To paraphrase Freud: Sometimes a crucified robot is just a crucified robot.

[Betenoire]

The other thing to keep in mind is that GAINAX Studio also ran out of production budget for the TV series, (I wonder if this issue, and the nervous breakdown are related?!?!) and was forced to abandon the planned ending, replacing them with the infamous last two broadcast episodes

Weren't there also changes to Japan's broadcasting laws as well? I could have sworn I read something about the early Eva episodes being at least partially responsible for that.

And at least they didn't farm out the production to the same company that did the Nadia island eps and the movies. Though Eva could prob get away with characters talking without their lips moving :).

[LenMiyata]

Grumble Grumble Grumble

Weren't there also changes to Japan's broadcasting laws as well? I could have sworn I read something about the early Eva episodes being at least partially responsible for that.
There was a significant change to the Japan broadcasts laws in 1999, which resulted (among other things) in the AIC Studio pilot of the EVA inspired series 'De:vadasy' from a all age rating to a M+ rating...

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2002-03-12/de-vasasy-clarification

Though it would be hard to point at EVA as the partially the cause of this, as there were many Anime series in 1990s that were testing the limits of the broadcast standards...

[The Great Bear]

To paraphrase Freud: Sometimes a crucified robot is just a crucified robot.

That's the healthiest way to approach it.

[KK1]

Forget all the robots and Angels and Judeo-Christian symbolism, Eva was all about dysfunctional relationships.

Shinji was a self-loathing mama's boy because his father ignored him.
Misato suffered post traumatic stress disorder and dealt with it by becoming an alcoholic slut.
Gendo was an egotistical, psychopathic, mysogynist hung up on his wife.
Asuka was a bipolar bitch with abandonment issues.
Rei was a souless robot with serious father issues.
Ritsuko has some serious self esteem issues.
And all the pilots mothers were really misgiuded shitty workaholics who spent way too much time on their jobs instead of their kids.

It's like watching the Jerry Springer show with fighting giant robots as a backdrop.

[Zeether]

To quote the Nostalgia Critic:

"Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the mindfuck!"

[XenoSaber]

Forget all the robots and Angels and Judeo-Christian symbolism, Eva was all about dysfunctional relationships.

Shinji was a self-loathing mama's boy because his father ignored him.
Misato suffered post traumatic stress disorder and dealt with it by becoming an alcoholic slut.
Gendo was an egotistical, psychopathic, mysogynist hung up on his wife.
Asuka was a bipolar bitch with abandonment issues.
Rei was a souless robot with serious father issues.
Ritsuko has some serious self esteem issues.
And all the pilots mothers were really misgiuded shitty workaholics who spent way too much time on their jobs instead of their kids.

It's like watching the Jerry Springer show with fighting giant robots as a backdrop.

I don't think I've ever heard it described quite that way. But, when I really sit and think about it, you are so right.

[something]

Forget all the robots and Angels and Judeo-Christian symbolism, Eva was all about dysfunctional relationships.
[snip list]
Heh! In a way, it's all so true, if a bit harsh. But the bottom line is that this is indeed what Evangelion is really about. Not the symbolism and cryptic speeches, but the characters, and their struggles.

All the "stuff" is a backdrop. Good or bad, logical or illogical, it's a complex and interesting enough backdrop that it's helped Evangelion stand out from the crowd and become a phenomenon. It doesn't really much matter at this point if all the pieces fit together perfectly. I honestly don't remember any of the details about the Lance and Lillith and Shinji's mother, but I do remember the wonderfully messed up characters who, for better or worse, have quite the ability to stick in your head, even if you don't like the show.

[The Great Bear]

It's like watching the Jerry Springer show with fighting giant robots as a backdrop.

If I had to sum up Eva in a single sentence, I think this would cover it very well.

[Takato]

It's like watching the Jerry Springer show with fighting giant robots as a backdrop.I liked how one of my friends who recently watched Eva and became a fan described the characters as being symbolic representations of mental disorders. Honestly, while I loved Eva, I didn't find it too confusing. At the same time I don't understand it all either, but I wasn't trying to understand it all, if that makes sense. Personally, I prefer the TV series' ending over End Of Eva. End Of Eva was an inspiring movie in its own right that I enjoyed, but I personally just thought the first half was kind of boring and it felt like Anno was just killing off all the characters just because he could, not because it served any development to the plot. The second half of the movie was more interesting when it started getting into all the psychological themes and symbolism. And while the TV series' ending didn't answer all the plot holes, I liked it better because it had more of a sense of a conclusion whereas End Of Eva just sort of ends without any real conclusion.Now Serial Experiments Lain, there's a confusing anime that I didn't understand one bit of and one I also enjoyed.

[Isuzu Inugami]

What you saw was Hideaki Anno's nervous breakdown. I'm not kidding. The director of Eva had a mental meltdown near the completion of the TV series. So, he decided to translate that to the screen.

I thought the breakdown happened during KareKano, not Eva...?

I thought the "explanation" for the last two episodes had more to do with scheduling/bugetary woes; Anno seems perfectly in control of the material up to that point. By comparison, KareKano becomes increasingly a mess.

Well, in any case, I love the symbolism/psychobabble because so much of it is up for interpretation. But if that's not where you're at, it can be ignored pretty safely. It's the characters who are at the heart of Evangelion.

[The Great Bear]

What you saw was Hideaki Anno's nervous breakdown. I'm not kidding. The director of Eva had a mental meltdown near the completion of the TV series. So, he decided to translate that to the screen.I thought the breakdown happened during KareKano, not Eva...?

From what I have read it was either during or immediately before Eva, not KareKano. KareKano's strangeness at the end was probably a reaction to his disputes with the manga-ka, which resulted in him going off the rails near the end there (and I believe he was even ousted before the end). A shame, since KareKano before the weirdness was a pretty well done show.

[Thomas Alan]

I think the audience is supposed to have the same look on their face as Shinji during the end of the world scene of End of Evangelion when the little sperm Rei's show up. It's meant to just play with your mind and is only mildly understood by the writers themselves.

Like others have pointed out, the show is much more a series of character studies than plot-driven. The Angels and all that stuff really existed as a means for moving the characters forward.

Of course the whole thing would have been better if it were The Asuka Show. That was a legitimately classic breakdown of a character. The other characters were rather shallow by comparrison.

[samwise]

Evangelion. I watched all 26 episodes and End of Evangelion. But I don't get it! The stuff I saw in the last few episodes I didn't understand (until I looked it up, and apparently a lot of stuff happened that I didn't even realize was happening). And the stuff I wanted to know (like about what the heck Lilith or whatever is, among other things...), it never explained. There's a LOT it never explained. And even after looking it up all I found is more people saying it wasn't explained. I'm still confused... What the heck did I just see?
Reading articles like Wikipedia and ANN's "Understanding Evangelion" is all fine and good, and in fact I'll second that recommendation (since you took the time to articulate your frustrations with the series, you'll probably find it worth your while).

However it sounds like you also really didn't enjoy the series, and I doubt re-watching it would help you appreciate it more. Eva was my favorite anime for many years, but not anymore (I still love it -or parts of it- but haven't gone back to re-watch it in some time). It deserves to be seen... and, well, you've done that. :) Welcome to the forums.

[Leon_Belmont]

The first half of EOE was perhaps the greatest thing I'd ever seen. All hell breaking loose!

And the second half was there to apparently even that out :(. It's not even the message it portrays. It's the way they went about it. It was like they intentional produced it in the least fulfilling way possible.

[Betenoire]

Of course the best part (read satirically) is that EVA was so popular that every third robot anime (and some not) decided that they wanted to grab some of what made EVA popular and it resulted in some very good and some very, very bad shows.
Much like the Matrix or Star Wars, when something hits big the imitators follow and not always as successfully and the first work can get put on a higher level than it may (or may not) deserve. Nothing wrong with deciding you don't enjoy what you got out of it. Like some impressionist art-even when you get an explanation you can still walk off shaking your head with no idea how someone got the message they did out of that piece of work.

[Bibulb]

Forget all the robots and Angels and Judeo-Christian symbolism, Eva was all about dysfunctional relationships.


Bingbingbing!
As I've previously described it, "Welcome to Eva, what's your damage?"

All the weird imagery is fun to pick through and hang stuff on, but at the end of the day it's all about interpersonal trainwrecks.

[Prede]

What you saw was Hideaki Anno's nervous breakdown. I'm not kidding. The director of Eva had a mental meltdown near the completion of the TV series. So, he decided to translate that to the screen.

I thought the breakdown happened during KareKano, not Eva...?

I thought the "explanation" for the last two episodes had more to do with scheduling/bugetary woes; Anno seems perfectly in control of the material up to that point. By comparison, KareKano becomes increasingly a mess.


No the breakdown happened during NGE. The problems with the Kare Kano ending was that they were running out of money, and to an augument between the Anno, the studio head of Gainax, the mangaka, and the sponors of the show (or something like this). Anno left with a few episodes still not finished, and it was up to his co-director Kazuya Tsurumaki to finish the show. He did as best as he could with what he was working with for that ending in my opinion, although I'm sad the anime couldn't have gone on for a few more episodes so we could have at least seen the play they were putting on. It sucks to end right before a major arch in the manga. One must wonder what Anno was planning to do with the ending...

[jojo_home]

What you saw was Hideaki Anno's nervous breakdown. I'm not kidding. The director of Eva had a mental meltdown near the completion of the TV series. So, he decided to translate that to the screen.

I thought the breakdown happened during KareKano, not Eva...?

I thought the "explanation" for the last two episodes had more to do with scheduling/bugetary woes; Anno seems perfectly in control of the material up to that point. By comparison, KareKano becomes increasingly a mess.


No the breakdown happened during NGE. The problems with the Kare Kano ending was that they were running out of money, and to an augument between the Anno, the studio head of Gainax, the mangaka, and the sponors of the show (or something like this). Anno left with a few episodes still not finished, and it was up to his co-director Kazuya Tsurumaki to finish the show. He did as best as he could with what he was working with for that ending in my opinion, although I'm sad the anime couldn't have gone on for a few more episodes so we could have at least seen the play they were putting on. It sucks to end right before a major arch in the manga. One must wonder what Anno was planning to do with the ending...

There are a lot of rumours about Eva, Kare-Kano and Anno, and not all of them true. I believe I read somewhere that Anno leaving Kare-Kano was a myth. Plus, his name was still in the credits doing various duties (not just series director) all the way up to the last episode.

Quite honestly, I've given up following these rumours. The only thing I can say for sure is that Anno, at some point in his career, went through a period of depression/introspection and that he has a very individualistic directing style when it comes to his approach to anime. In truth, if you don't "get" Eva (or the "weird" episodes of KareKano for that matter), well, you need to watch more so-called "avant-garde" entertainment in general. Because Anno's influences definitely show if you've got a pretty good handle on anime AND film history. I see a bit of Tomino mixed with Godard, some Bergman, some Oshima and Ozu, some Go Nagai...

So yeah, aside from his anime influences, he's definitely influenced by French and Japanese 60s New Wave film, when audiences were more into/accepting of non-linear storytelling. It's just that bringing that style to a contemporary audience can be quite disorienting for those not used to that. But if you're used to that you'll see that ultimately, for all the schizophrenic visuals and editing, Anno's pretty consistent. It takes a director with a ton of focus and concentration to try to visually "simulate" schizophrenic storytelling on screen. It's not just a matter of throwing things up there. I imagine he must have spent hours in the editing room achieving many of these effects that people "don't get". So let's not assume ANY of these episodes are an indication of a breakdown. It may be individualistic and annoying for some viewers to watch, but we shouldn't read too much into Anno's state of mind WHILE producing these shows.

As for the actual "point" of Eva, I personally believe Anno went into the show already knowing what he wanted to communicate and already having experienced the things he eventually pushed to the foreground later in the show. It's just that he took some time to get there. But seriously, everything he did and all the themes he focused on in the end of the series was already foreshadowed in the first 4 episodes. It's all there. He never really "lost it" midway through the show, he simply got more creative in the editing room later on.

[tuxpower]

To paraphrase Freud: Sometimes a crucified robot is just a crucified robot.

I'm sorry, but to me, this is the damn... funniest... line... ever :sdsmiley::sdsmiley:

[tuxpower]

Okay, now that I've finished reading the thread thus far...

Eva wasn't my first anime. For me, Speed Racer, Astro Boy, 8th Man, and Battle Angel (on VHS) and even Voltron preceded it. However, after picking up that original black box "Perfect Collection" set and marathoning it a couple of times, I was hooked. I grabbed the Manga's "Death and Rebirth" and "End of Evangelion" and wanted to know what else was out there.

In short, Eva got me into the love of Anime and Manga.

Personally, what I love about Evangelion is that even in the middle of the world's worst crisis (Second Impact, which killed a major portion of the earth's population - can't get any worse than that - Third Impact takes place during End of Evangelion), people can still be weak and pathetic (much like real life, huh? :laugh:).

As an aside, I'm still collecting the manga written by Yoshiyuki Sadamoto, the art director of not only Eva, but Nadia The Secret of Blue Water (just ignore the island episodes :() and FLCL, who started his vision of the story when the show was on and even now at volume 11 (!) still isn't finished yet...