Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ [Archive]

Fencedude

04-01-2009, 10:02 PM

Based on the game by Niro+, was animated as a 3 episode OVA some years back.

ANN Link (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=10541)
Official Site (http://www.phantom-r.jp/)

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04-02-2009, 01:02 AM

I feel like I'm the only person who's truly looking forward to this. :sd: Ever since I played the original DVD game I always felt strongly that this would make a fantastic 2-cour series if done right. I guess we're about to find out. Even though it is obviously a decent fit for them I was disheartened when I heard Bee Train was doing it, but I'm going to try to go in with an open mind and give them a chance. El Cazador was an improvement, but was light on story. I'm not sure that approach will work on Phantom, but the writing department is covered by the original creator so I am still hopeful.

HitokiriShadow

04-02-2009, 01:08 AM

I'm all for more Girls With Guns shows, so I'm looking forward to in on that basis. However, I never saw the previous OVA or played the game (though I had an interest in them) so I have nothing to give me particularly high levels of interest in it. On the other hand, I have nothing to give me any worries either. Unlike many people, I have nothing particular against Bee Train and I've quite enjoyed Madlax and El Cazador.

04-02-2009, 01:12 AM

Not having seen the OVA is a good thing. It was pretty bad. Phantom actually has enough story material for 2-cours, which is why I was so glad it was announced as such. Stuffing that into a 3 episode OVA does just as much damage as you'd expect, and even setting that issue aside it is still a mediocre presentation.

I loved the original game. The premise is fairly unique and interesting IMO and it got something right that is rarely done well in this genre: slow pacing that still manages to be engaging and not boring.

BluWacky

04-02-2009, 04:36 AM

I feel like I'm the only person who's truly looking forward to this. :sd: Ever since I played the original DVD game I always felt strongly that this would make a fantastic 2-cour series if done right.

I thoguht it was only scheduled for 13 episodes? Have you got a link to confirm that it's 26?

El Cazador was an improvement, but was light on story. I'm not sure that approach will work on Phantom, but the writing department is covered by the original creator so I am still hopeful.

See, I really didn't like El Cazador - it was far too, well, normal. Phantom's script is being overseen by Yousuke Kuroda, who wrote the story for Madlax (as well as a million other shows that are objectively better...) so I would hope that the writing is at least half decent - either that or the usual nonsensically cryptic stuff that Mashimo likes.

Anyhoo, looking forward to this because I liked Madlax, and I actually think Mashimo is quite talented with the right material. I haven't had a good track record with previous NitroPlus properties (as in "I've hated them all") but I'm hopeful that I'll be proved wrong.

regz91

04-02-2009, 10:16 AM

I thoguht it was only scheduled for 13 episodes? Have you got a link to confirm that it's 26?

The director himself said it was 2-cours at a live event; I think I provided a link in the last thread. It also says 2-cours on Moon Phase.

Even before he confirmed it, though, it was pretty obvious - you don't bring in 8 writers to a 12-episode series.

Anyway, despite still feeling that Bee Train and Phantom are sort of an odd fit, I've heard basically nothing but good news about the project ever since it was announced (with the worst news probably being ALI PROJECT on ED). Writer Yosuke Kuroda is definitely full of enthusiasm about Phantom, and whatever else I might think about director Koichi Mashimo, he's at his best on this kind of show. If they do Phantom right, this has the potential to be Bee Train's best show. Nitroplus could certainly use another win in their anime adaptations column, too; they haven't been faring too well there either.

04-02-2009, 11:42 AM

I haven't had a good track record with previous NitroPlus properties (as in "I've hated them all") but I'm hopeful that I'll be proved wrong.

I'm not sure what you disliked about other Nitroplus stories, but Phantom is surprisingly normal with a bit of a Godfathers gone anime vibe to it. Every Nitroplus series since has been full of odd supernatural story elements or was just way too complicated for its own good, but Phantom is pretty down to earth if that helps.

Fencedude

04-02-2009, 12:01 PM

I'm not sure what you disliked about other Nitroplus stories, but Phantom is surprisingly normal with a bit of a Godfathers gone anime vibe to it. Every Nitroplus series since has been full of odd supernatural story elements or was just way too complicated for its own good, but Phantom is pretty down to earth if that helps.

Maybe he's only seen the anime?

Nitro+ anime adaptions have...a very bad track record.

(granted, it would be nice if the companies would put some budget into them, Madhouse totally phoned in Chaos;HEAd, it was almost embarrassing.)

04-02-2009, 04:02 PM

I agree, Chaos should have been better. It was okay but ultimately forgettable.

I actually kind of liked Demonbane. I know very few other people did.

Fencedude

04-02-2009, 04:23 PM

I agree, Chaos should have been better. It was okay but ultimately forgettable.

I actually kind of liked Demonbane. I know very few other people did.

I could never muster up the energy to finish Demonbane. Despite Al Azif being awesome.

I'm still waiting for someone to make a Saya no Uta anime.

regz91

04-02-2009, 05:29 PM

I could never muster up the energy to finish Demonbane. Despite Al Azif being awesome.

I'm still waiting for someone to make a Saya no Uta anime.

How far did you get in Demonbane? If you can make it to the 6th episode, the individual story elements might be strong enough to push you through the rest of it, even if the overall package is pretty dreary. I LOVE Demonbane - more than Phantom, really - so I always encourage people to experience the story, even if it has to be through the anime.

BluWacky

04-02-2009, 05:41 PM

Well, I might not have liked the previous Nitroplus shows I've seen, but I like Phantom's first episode.

It's definitely the Mashimo effect more than anything else - I'm not a massive Bee Train fan but I do think he and his staff are quite talented at certain things and they suit this show well. Smooth fight scenes, weird shit, and beeeeyoooootiful OPs and EDs.

I'm not sure what to make of things as yet. I like Ein and Zwei, and think the other characters are potentially interesting; the script is a bit clunky but then it has to do all the setup from a visual novel so that's understandable (even if I think Kuroda is probably pissing around trying to look clever); the music is nice but I like Hikaru Nanase so I'm biased.

Cautious optimism is in order!

regz91

04-02-2009, 09:22 PM

How interesting.

The basic plot is the same, but pretty much everything in the actual execution is very different. I rather liked it. I always like to see different interpretations of the same material, and I think the staff on this show really "get" Phantom, without feeling the need to duplicate the original. I suppose, looking at it purely as the first episode of an anime, it was a little slow, and didn't really hook people in as much as a first episode ideally should. But as a fan of the game, I am very reassured by this first episode - and at the same time, I'm very excited to see what they are planning for the rest of the series.

I had been concerned that the game spends a lot of time with Ein training Zwei before Zwei becomes an assassin, and that can be a slog to get through in a weekly TV series. The show seems to get past this by ending the episode with Zwei already an assassin. Or is that whole thing a flash-forward, with the next few episodes dedicated to showing how he reached that point? I can't quite tell - and that IS an awful lot of material to skip over, if that's what they did. Either way, it allowed the show to provide some kickass action in the first episode, which was probably a good decision.

If there's one thing I might be concerned about, it's that the episode is a little artsy, whereas Phantom should really be told in a more straightforward manner. I'm not sure at all what the scene with the swings was supposed to convey, for example. I guess it's supposed to be Zwei looking into Ein's soul? The whole puppet symbolism is another one. It's OK - barely - when characters do it in the OP. It's just silly when Ein is doing it in the episode itself. These thing are a stylistic choice and it's fine for now, but this is something that needs to be kept in check, rather than become more prominent as the show goes on.

The cast was excellent. I'm still not totally sold on Miyu Irino as Zwei, but he did OK in this episode and at the very least won't drag the show down, which I guess is good enough for someone I wasn't all that enthusiastic about when the cast was announced. The music was good, and while it was still definitely more in the Bee Train style than the original game, it didn't overwhelm the episode. But the OP and ED . . . I like the OP song, but the visuals are pretty weird. And I am definitely skipping the ED every time from now on. I already can't wait until we get the songs for the 2nd half.

A good start. Don't mess things up, Bee Train.

Ashyukun

04-03-2009, 10:27 PM

OK, I wasn't looking forward to this at all and just watched it as part of my usual 'watch the first episode of everything at the beginning of the season', but the first episode grabbed me a lot more than I was expecting. It's damn pretty while still being gritty, I love the music (ED aside... can we please get a season where Ali Project doesn't perform half of all the music?), and it's definitely an interesting setup. Certainly good enough to get me to at least watch the second episode to see where it goes.

Fencedude

04-03-2009, 11:09 PM

Ah, now THAT was how things should be done.

Way better than the OVA, aka "HEADSHOTS. TEH ANIMU"

Music is good, OP is interesting, and the ED...argh.

Next time, Ein in a sports bra! She should be required to wear that at all times. Delicious.

Kusaja

04-03-2009, 11:16 PM

If there's one thing I might be concerned about, it's that the episode is a little artsy, whereas Phantom should really be told in a more straightforward manner. I'm not sure at all what the scene with the swings was supposed to convey, for example. I guess it's supposed to be Zwei looking into Ein's soul? The whole puppet symbolism is another one. It's OK - barely - when characters do it in the OP. It's just silly when Ein is doing it in the episode itself. These thing are a stylistic choice and it's fine for now, but this is something that needs to be kept in check, rather than become more prominent as the show goes on.

This sums up most of what keeps me from being as enthusiastic about this show as I should be, really. The game was less concerned with such symbols and cryptic scenes. It's good that we will most likely get to see the entire cast this time around, but the style doesn't quite appeal to me. It counts as a negative in my book.

I didn't care for most of the action scenes, to be quite honest they felt "business as usual" for Bee-Train, although the knife fight was a fairly good watch. Other than that, it's alright.

The music was good, and while it was still definitely more in the Bee Train style than the original game, it didn't overwhelm the episode. But the OP and ED . . . I like the OP song, but the visuals are pretty weird. And I am definitely skipping the ED every time from now on. I already can't wait until we get the songs for the 2nd half.

The OP is certainly weird, but I've quickly become addicted to it, visuals included. The ED isn't a good listen, to say the least, but I guess the sequence itself is interesting.

I'm still hoping that we do manage to get a couple of tracks from the original game, especially one which would be spoiler-ish to mention (and won't matter until...probably about halfway through the series, more or less).

Westlo

04-04-2009, 07:30 AM

Watched the first episode, wasn't exactly impressed but it didn't rub me the wrong way. I liked Takagaki Ayahi's vocal work as Ein, will at least watch one more episode but any more depends on if ep 3 clicks with me as well as the quality of the rest of the season.

HitokiriShadow

04-04-2009, 08:53 PM

Well, that was fairly interesting. Nothing amazing, and a few slight annoyances (BeeTrain's approach to on-screen deaths, mainly) but I'm curious to see where things go.

ED is nice visually, but anime studios really need to keep Ali Project the fuck away from their anime. The BGM is pretty damn good though.

04-06-2009, 04:34 PM

I rather enjoyed the episode, it was about what I was expecting. I like how they weaved some action scenes into the initial plot setup with the desert warehouse. Starting out like the game did wouldn't have hooked as many viewers I imagine.

The animation was pretty good, and hopefully it will hold up beyond episode one. Good music so far too. Like others have said I was annoyed at the ED, but Ali Project has a really long history of working with Bee Train so I was expecting them to show up at one end of the show or the other sadly. Even for Ali Project this particular piece is just surreal and disjointed. It's like they aren't even trying anymore and just hammered on their synthesizer board for a while after smoking something.

The only thing I don't like so far is a complaint I have about all Bee Train shows: that their characters have this slightly lifeless quality to them that makes it hard to like them at first. Despite the subject material I liked the characters from the game right away.

ArcticMech

04-08-2009, 10:37 PM

Like most here, I enjoyed the first episode but didn't really find anything to get excited about. I liked Ein and Zwei enough. It's hard to resist calling them No. 1 and No. 2. Will there be a Drei at some point? :P Didn't find the jumping back and forth in time to be a problem. One thing kept crossing my mind during the flashback sequence: I do not envy that poor guy at all. Nice OP. ED gave me a headache. Plan to stay for at least 1-2 more episodes, but this is going to a low priority thing.

regz91

04-10-2009, 08:43 PM

The OP comes at the start of the episode! For some reason, I've gotten really frustrated with the way all of today's anime start with cold openings. Sometimes cold openings are cool, and sometimes a traditional opening is nice - I like a little variety, but lately it's almost 100% cold openings. It's gotten to the point where I give a show bonus points just for starting with the OP. And so I dutifully give this show bonus points. Not that it needs them, it's doing just fine by itself.

If the first episode was Bee Train-esque, this one is classic Phantom. After an episode with flashy fight scenes to hook the viewer, this episode brings the show firmly back down to earth. The centerpiece of the episode is a lengthy training sequence showing Zwei's training. It's a beautiful sequence, with wonderful music and direction, illustrating how Zwei gradually loses himself and begins to adapt to his future role as assassin. The dialogue is also a clear step above the first episode. Like the action, I think they dressed up the dialogue for the first episode, because this episode was much more like the Phantom I remember. There wasn't much in the way of plot - this is a moody episode, meant to set the tone of the series and sketch out the major characters. Luckily, next episode they will be Getting On With It and not dragging out the training process for long episodes on end like I was so afraid they would.

Interestingly, now that this episode dispenses with much of the visual trickery, I find I'm much more tolerant of the visuals in the OP. I guess I just wasn't digging them too much when I was a little afraid it was a bad indication of how the actual show would turn out, but I'm really getting into the opening credits now. The ED is still nonsense, though. You know, I was rewatching Avenger recently in preparation for Phantom (I know, I know, but it's the only Koichi Mashimo show I own the whole series of), and I was reminded that ALI PROJECT used to put out some pretty catchy stuff. I don't really have a problem with their style, but their last few songs have just been ridiculous.

I guess I should mention that the website now has info up for the first DVD, confirming 26 episodes on 10 DVDs. Curiously, it comes with a box that will hold 4 DVDs, and is cryptically labeled "Ein Chapter". A hint of how long the first chapter will run?

Fencedude

04-11-2009, 04:03 AM

Ein needs to wear the sports bra for the rest of the show.

...yeah, thats all I got. Nothing else to say really.

Kusaja

04-11-2009, 04:19 PM

Interestingly, now that this episode dispenses with much of the visual trickery, I find I'm much more tolerant of the visuals in the OP. I guess I just wasn't digging them too much when I was a little afraid it was a bad indication of how the actual show would turn out, but I'm really getting into the opening credits now.

It's a very nice OP, overall, although the more I watch it, the more it becomes pretty clear the series will likely be going down the obvious path, to put it one way. Not that there's anything wrong with that, personal preferences aside.

The episode itself...was slow, character building that did its job well and, as already mentioned, felt closer to the game's atmosphere. The training scenes were fairly down to earth and the symbolism was a little more subtle this time around too, which makes me glad.

The next one will have to be more demanding, all things considered, and I hope they don't go overboard trying to hit the viewer over the head...which is admittedly a bit hard, but one can hope.

I guess I should mention that the website now has info up for the first DVD, confirming 26 episodes on 10 DVDs. Curiously, it comes with a box that will hold 4 DVDs, and is cryptically labeled "Ein Chapter". A hint of how long the first chapter will run?

That's a bit interesting. There should be an average of 2-3 episodes per DVD, so that would mean somewhere between 8 and 12 episodes for this part of the story? Assuming the structure will remain mostly the same.

Ein needs to wear the sports bra for the rest of the show.

...yeah, thats all I got. Nothing else to say really.

Heh...I certainly won't disagree, at least not for the time being.

Senku

04-11-2009, 09:46 PM

The main characters' names could have been a little more original, but Beetrain knows how to make a sleek assassin show. I'll keep up with this for now.

malazar

04-11-2009, 10:15 PM

Yeah, this was alright. I like the basic premise, but with a really too large number of shows catching my fancy this season so far, this might get dropped after a couple more episodes if it doesn't impress me more.

ArcticMech

04-12-2009, 02:06 AM

If the first episode was Bee Train-esque, this one is classic Phantom. After an episode with flashy fight scenes to hook the viewer, this episode brings the show firmly back down to earth. The centerpiece of the episode is a lengthy training sequence showing Zwei's training. It's a beautiful sequence, with wonderful music and direction, illustrating how Zwei gradually loses himself and begins to adapt to his future role as assassin.

Episode 2 was excellent and a clear step up from the pilot. I've got no prior experience with Phantom, but it was a departure from what I'd normally expect with Bee Train. They did great job depicting how Zwei has decided to cope with realities of his situation and the reasoning behind it. Then we get a curveball in the form of Claudia, giving Zwei some food for thought. The physical training and particularly the shooting practice was handled well. Pacing was solid. I couldn't find anything bad or even mildly irritating with this episode. This show wasn't on my watch list this season, but looks like I'll have to add it if this keeps up.

Atomsk

04-12-2009, 05:09 AM

Kusaja

04-12-2009, 01:14 PM

Watched episode 1 and 2, but this isn't really my type of show. It feels to much like Bee Train is re-releasing Noir with minor alterations. Different organisations, a male and a female instead of two females, but that's about it. Ein looks way too much like Kirika and also behaves largely the same way.

That's actually rather ironic when you consider Kirika is a character who was pretty much a partial copy of Ein, not the other way around, because Noir was released a year after the game Phantom is based on came out. This one was first, not second.

Things might look similar right now but I do think the overall differences are enough to say this isn't Noir, even though Bee Train's involvement isn't going to easily change that perception either. Still, if you're not liking the show so far there's nothing to be done anyways.

Atomsk

04-12-2009, 05:28 PM

HitokiriShadow

04-13-2009, 12:30 AM

Ein needs to wear that training outfit more.

Also, Zwei's initial protests annoyed me, but mainly because the voice reminded me of another character's low points from another series. Sure enough, its the same seiyuu. Otherwise, a decent episode but it doesn't leave much to talk about as it was rather uneventful.

Ingraman

04-13-2009, 02:51 PM

I just finally got around to watching the first episode, and I was rather bored by it. I found the Op/Ed themes to be underwhelming, the action rather dull and lacking motion, and the characters were uninteresting. What little BGM that I noticed, didn't manage to pull me into the animation, either.

04-20-2009, 09:38 PM

This episodes wraps up Zwei's training and transformation into an assassin for Inferno. I think the writers are continuing to stay true to the original material here while managing to make it a bit more interesting. The original is quite slow in its pacing at times, but to me at least the anime has never dragged on so far. Ein is portrayed very well too. Both cold and emotionless, and yet not somehow. It's dead on. I thought the final scene after Zwei wins the fight was very well done. It could have come off as cheesy but it didn't. This show communicates tons of atmopshere through its visuals and it makes every individual scene feel intense.

It seems like this show isn't a favorite this season, but I'm counting it among my top picks for the season already. This is the best work Bee Train has ever delivered in my eyes, and I think it's going to continue to get better.

Fencedude

04-20-2009, 11:47 PM

Scythe needs to stop touching my Ein!

HitokiriShadow

04-21-2009, 12:04 AM

There was some nice Ein-service this episode... if I ignore Scythemaster's presence. That kind of killed it and made it just creepy (which, of course, was the point).

Anyway, looks like training time is over now. I'm a little disappointed how they just flipped the switch from "I can't do this" to emotionless killer at the end. They were building it up slowly and then they took a quick and easy way to move to the end result.

04-21-2009, 11:17 AM

Anyway, looks like training time is over now. I'm a little disappointed how they just flipped the switch from "I can't do this" to emotionless killer at the end. They were building it up slowly and then they took a quick and easy way to move to the end result.

I thought it was both excellent and believable myself. She "killed" the him who was hesitating and continuing to be in turmoil over his emotions.

I think it is actually done this way with some forms of training. They push you past the point of exhaustion and then snap you at the end. You come out of it a different person with a completely different and controllable frame of mind. It's also important to remember that Zwei's mind was manipulated by both drug and psychological therapy from Scythe. They are carefully sculpting him into something different and Ein put the finishing touches on it in an interesting way by taking advantage of the intensity of the situation.

Classical

04-23-2009, 12:04 PM

Just watched this right now, and I must say wow, just wow. I have a negative view of Bee Train so I didn't know what I was really getting into watching Phantom, but I was rather impressed with this first episode. The OP is kind of weird, and I can't really say whether I like it or not. This first episode has style and suspense which helps keep me on the edge of my seat. I suppose in part that's why I like it so much. Anyways, Ein is cute and Zwei...well, Zwei is a weird name, but so is Ein. Though I don't care too much about the weird names to make a big deal out of them.

To me another draw of this episode was Ein x Zwei. It seems the both of them have something going on. Inferno is certainly a very interesting organization, but I feel bad about the way Ein and Zwei are being used as killing machines. The scientist guy who is the master of Ein kind of freaks me out, and it seems he doesn't like getting bossed by McCunnen. The whole test trial thing involving Zwei and Ein was exciting to watch. Maid Ein was kind of amusing since I don't think running around in a maid outfit is the most efficient way to do what it is that she's supposed to do, but it was necessary for her to wear it to avoid blowing her cover. Plus, she looked cute in it. I did happen to like the ED as well, even though I thought it was kind of weird too.

Looking forward to watching episode 2.

Classical

04-23-2009, 05:37 PM

It was a nice episode, given that it wasn't as exciting as the first one, but I still liked it. It's fascinating to see Zwei lose his humanity as he undergoes training with Ein. There's something painful about Zwei thinking of himself as nothing more of a puppet, but he gets determined make his way to the top which is nice. The chat between Claudia and Zwei was also interesting to watch. There's something about Ein's character that fascinates me, and yes, she should wear the sports bra for the rest of the show.

I don't know anything about the game this adaptation is based off of, but I'm definitely looking forward to watching episode 3.

Classical

04-24-2009, 02:26 PM

Fascinating episode. Scythe Master is creepy. I can't help but feel that Ein is a lot more older than she looks (was Scythe Master rubbing some anti-aging cream on her or something?), and that at some point Inferno may plan to get rid of her or something. Still, as if by some act of mercy, perhaps displaying some humanity (or not), Ein doesn't kill Zwei. It'll be interesting to see what direction this show takes.

Classical

04-24-2009, 02:30 PM

Ein is portrayed very well too. Both cold and emotionless, and yet not somehow. It's dead on. I thought the final scene after Zwei wins the fight was very well done. It could have come off as cheesy but it didn't. This show communicates tons of atmopshere through its visuals and it makes every individual scene feel intense.

I've really enjoyed the way Ein has been portrayed so far. Like you said, she seems cold and emotionless, but at the same time in some way she doesn't seem like it. I also thought the final scene in the episode was great, and it did feel very intense.

Ashyukun

04-24-2009, 02:33 PM

Classical

04-24-2009, 03:52 PM

I assumed that it was oil he was rubbing on her. To me the scene with the oil and Ein seemed intentionally placed after Scythe Master cleaning and oiling the pistol...

I figure that's probably what it was. Sometimes I tend to over-analyze things. :sd: Either way, the way Scythe Master was rubbing oil on Ein was rather creepy.

04-24-2009, 04:06 PM

Still, as if by some act of mercy, perhaps displaying some humanity (or not), Ein doesn't kill Zwei. It'll be interesting to see what direction this show takes.

Unless he blatantly confirmed his desire to die and not commit to his new life I don't think it was ever her plan to kill Zwei. Rather it was psychological manipulation and it worked brilliantly. He needed to be pushed over the edge to accept things and she did exactly that. It was her desire to help him the entire time, though all of the motivations for it aren't entirely made clear at this point yet.

Classical

04-24-2009, 05:35 PM

Rather it was psychological manipulation and it worked brilliantly. He needed to be pushed over the edge to accept things and she did exactly that.

Even though the show hinted that Zwei wasn't the type to kill a person I sort of felt that he seemed determined to survive and do whatever it takes to live. That scene (the last scene of episode 3) sort of came as a shocker for me because Zwei thought he could handle his "new life," but the reality was that he couldn't. Yet as you say, Ein pushed him over the edge and his eyes show that he's accepted things. Seeing him over the edge like that, I can't help but feel sorry for him.

HitokiriShadow

04-24-2009, 11:29 PM

Seeing Ein acting so normal and cute was still really weird. It's also kind of depressing because you know its just an act and that she is no longer capable of leading such a life. She is, however, capable of wearing smoking hot swimwear.

Also, their assassination plan seemed incredibly impractical, risky, and failure prone. I know they are uber assassins and all, but you'd think they would pick a method that wasn't in broad daylight with dozens of witnesses and put a good 40 feet or so between them and the target with no cover and plenty of time for the target and his bodyguards to react. Still, it was nice to see them start taking on missions and it was a pretty good episode.

Fencedude

04-25-2009, 12:23 AM

something

04-25-2009, 01:27 AM

Episode 1:

- That's a lotsa deadness.
- Heh, not feeling the OP at all, neither song nor animation. This will get skipped a lot.
- Now we jump back in time now to see how he meets the girl, and where he got into this mess, apparently.
- So I guess Bee Train discovered blood, or maybe it's just their girls with guns shows that have everyone die without bleeding. :sd:
- I'm liking Takagaki Ayahi as Ein.
- Hah, okay, I was trying to figure out if there was any point to him taking his shirt off, but there was.
- Aww, it's kind of sweet how Ein takes care of him after tranquilizing him,
- Back to the present. Ahaaha, what a conveniently placed beam in the grating for that foiled upskirt shot.
- Okay, definitely can taste the BeeTraininess at the end here. Which isn't a complaint, really, because I've liked Bee Train more than I've disliked them.

Arrrrrrrgh Ali Project. Guess I'm skipping both OP and ED on this one. What a shame too, El Cazador had a great OP and ED.

So that was quite impressive. The show could go either way but this was a very good opening episode. I just hope Ein and Zwei have a more interesting dynamic than this first mission alludes to. After coming off the incredibly dyanmic, funny, and passionate Nadie and Ellis, I want something similarly dynamic here, even if we presumably drop the funny.

something

04-25-2009, 02:05 AM

Episode 2:

- Hahahah, they're really getting into the shots of this dude bathing, aren't they?
- I usually don't like Claudia's character type, but for some reason she's really clicking with me here.
- Oh. My. God. Ein is incredibly hot.
- This whole training sequence is incredibly effective at what it's trying to depict, i.e. Zwei's will being completely broken down. Only problem is that it's making him a very boring character. Thankfully Ein is incredibly lovely to make up for it. She's got the whole "emotionless super soldier" thing going on too, but it feels different because compared to the broken Zwei, she feels much more lucid and alive. And she has to be to give him orders and train him.
- Scythe Master is a creep.
- The United Nations of the Underworld. :sd:
- Yeah, Claudia is definitely very interesting. She seems to be the only person in Inferno with a smidge of conscience left. Her car is very noisy, though. =P
- Her visit also brings a little bit of life back into Zwei. I'll be happy if he can at least stay in this sort of mental zone.

This was a very, very good episode. I'm getting increasingly impressed by this show, although the concern about the leads' dynamic remains. Right now it's good for the stage we're in, but I'm not sure I want it to be like this for the whole show. But Ein in that sexy, sexy outfit for nearly the whole episode = huge epic win.

something

04-25-2009, 02:39 AM

Episode 3:

- She's still wearing it! Yes!
- Er, damn. I was hoping the sexy naked Ein shots from the preview wouldn't involve the Scythe Master.
- And the bad guy makes the same old mistake of not just shooting his enemy when he has the chance. :sd:

Huh, yeah, wow, I'm done the ep and this is all I've typed. I have remarkably little to say in terms of commenting while watching. It was very good though! Everything going on in Zwei's head is very nicely illustrated through Ein's words. Like she says in the preview, she knows what he's going through, knows what he feels. To repeat myself a third time, I still have the same reservations, but thus far it's been spot on. It's all a matter of seeing how it holds up in the long run.

04-25-2009, 10:10 AM

I still have the same reservations

Without spoiling anything, I can tell you the dynamic between the two as the show goes on is something to look forward to if the staff does it right.

Kusaja

04-25-2009, 12:51 PM

Without spoiling anything, I can tell you the dynamic between the two as the show goes on is something to look forward to if the staff does it right.

I'd say the character dynamics in general are one of the strong points of the visual novel and the show seems to be representing them quite well so far.

That said, Ein's not my favorite female character, personally, but it's hard to deny she is the female lead and her relationship with Zwei gets enough development to back that up.

Classical

04-29-2009, 11:50 AM

Seeing Ein acting so normal and cute was still really weird. It's also kind of depressing because you know its just an act and that she is no longer capable of leading such a life. She is, however, capable of wearing smoking hot swimwear.

I definitely felt the same way. Seeing her act "normal" was just so bizarre, but of course it turned out to be all an act. Although, before she made it apparently that it was just an act I really though she was being normal. Anyways, Ein has a nice body figure.

Also, their assassination plan seemed incredibly impractical, risky, and failure prone. I know they are uber assassins and all, but you'd think they would pick a method that wasn't in broad daylight with dozens of witnesses and put a good 40 feet or so between them and the target with no cover and plenty of time for the target and his bodyguards to react. Still, it was nice to see them start taking on missions and it was a pretty good episode.

Yeah, I felt the same way. I understand the guy they were after rarely ventured outside his home but it was still a rather risky plan.

This was another enjoyable episode, but now it seems Ein is acting a little weird because Zwei has been doing pretty well. I'm curious to see where this will lead to.

TheGreenMan

04-29-2009, 06:38 PM

I figured this was Bee Train when Ellis showed up at the end of episode 1. LOL.

regz91

04-30-2009, 03:31 AM

So, a number of DVD sites have put up listings for all the DVDs for this series, including episode counts and extras. There are no real spoilers, but the episode counts do indicate how long the various chapters will run, which I think is kind of a spoiler. If you really don't want to know these things, just be aware that places like CDJapan have that kind of info on their sites.

Chapter 1 will run episodes 1-11. Chapter 2 will run episodes 12-19. Chapter 3 will run episodes 20-26. Chapter 3 will also have a new opening and ending.

HitokiriShadow

05-01-2009, 08:34 PM

Miss McCunnen continues to be a very intriguing character.

We also have an exceedingly rare occurrence in this episode: the murder of a child by the protagonist. And he shows no remorse for it at all. You don't see the kid die, but they take their sweet time getting through that scene, letting it sink in. I was a little surprised as I was kind of expecting them to try to avoid dealing with that more than they absolutely had to.

something

05-02-2009, 03:57 AM

Episode 4:

- Ahh!!!!!! Bikini Ein! Ep starts with WIN! Also, they both seem to be showing a heck of a lot more emotion. Though it may just be part of the role they're playing for the assassination, it's more than welcome anyway.
- More of this mixing CG people into crowd scenes bullshit. You might as well just stick giant cocks here and there througout the crowd, it'd be less jarring. God damn it.
- Ein is loooooove. And quick thinking too when they run into that lady. And she also takes time to reprimand Zwei for falling out of character... It's interesting seeing how drastically they change once they're alone again and don't have to play a part.
- Scythe Master is so going to kill Claudia before the series ends, isn't he? ;_;
- Oh god, more bikini Ein. Yessss.
- Hmmm! She notices that Zwei is slipping into what I guess we can call his "Phantom" mode and she stops his train of thought there. As strict as she is, she definitely conveys a sense of caring for him.
- Ein picked up a tail. Part of the plan, or did she slip up for a moment there?
- Slipped up, but recovers brilliantly.
- And during the actual attack, fantastic use of the eyes behind the masks to illustrate emotion. I'm also wondering how far Zwei's "phantom" powers will go. Way off the supernatural deep end, or is a lot of it just supposed to be taken as dramatization? It'll be interesting to find out.
- Ahhhhh, so much awesome tension betwee Ein and Zwei.

Another fantastic episode.

something

05-02-2009, 04:37 AM

Episode 5:

- So Inferno deals in the drug trade? Or maybe the scene at the start and this scene are not related. Either way, this Tony guy is being pushed hard as a "good mafia" type. But one that stands in the way of Inferno's expansion, and thus he's going to get killed by Zwei and/or Ein. I guess this will serve as some definite proof that Inferno are "the bad guys", even if they make their living targeting crime bosses.
- YES, Ein in that incredible training outfit again.
- Nice that Ein is still the superior of the two, but Zwei is catching up fast. I think Ein's fear of him is not necessarily just that he'll catch up to her, but that when he surpasses her, he will show her what her future is going to be... and that's something she's scared to find out. As a side note, they both seem to have that "phantom effect" thing going on. I don't remember if we'd seen that from Ein before.
- Hah, McCunnen busting out some epic cleavage. And she's still trying to train Zwei to think for himself.
- And she's totally testing him here. Kill a woman and her child? And she won't let him hide behind "orders" either. She wants him to genuinely say he accepts that it's something he can and will do. She's both empowering and cruel, in a way.
- Cute happy Ein again! =D But as before, it's not the real Ein. I'd like to think that in a way it's how she wants to be, but I don't know if she ever could be like that even if given the chance.
- That brick wall Lizzie and Claudia hide behind seems amazingly convenient. Also, this isn't the best plan ever. What if they had closed the curtains before starting the negotiation? Inferno seems to do things somewhat haphazardly. :sd:

But, hey, the protagonist gunned down a little kid! Yay! No dancing around it, he totally shot the kid and her mom. Though he was in "not himself" mode, which is probably his way of escaping the reality of what he did.

Great episode yet again.

ArcticMech

05-03-2009, 02:52 PM

The murder of a child, regardless of who he belongs to, is deeply disturbing, but it does effectively illustrate Zwei's transformation into a cold blooded assassin and Inferno asset. Like most here, I'm also quite taken by McCunnen and the way she's handling Zwei. Nothing simple about it.

05-03-2009, 10:24 PM

I'm still impressed with the show and how it is being handled so far. They are introducing new material along the way which is great for people like me who otherwise know what to expect. Claudia begins her work to get Zwei aligned as her go to guy in this episode, something she laid the foundation for back in her visit to him in the warehouse during his training. I would say more, but even if it were based on just what we've seen so far it is too easy to take what I may say as plot spoilers. I loved that look Ein was giving Zwei after Claudia left the room when she told him he had a job to do. So many ways to interpret the meaning behind that.

Bee Train is doing a decent job of keeping the production values up too. El Cazador did okay with this too, but it definitely had its moments and it was not a Hi-Vision production either. The lack of blood during the shooting scenes is still odd too. After a dozen guys get mowed down there should be more on the floor than broken glass.

Fencedude

05-04-2009, 03:38 AM

Well, after that its very hard to put for Zwei as a "good guy", but of course, things can always change later...

05-04-2009, 11:28 AM

Well, after that its very hard to put for Zwei as a "good guy", but of course, things can always change later...

One of the greatest accomplishments of the Phantom story in general is how it drives home the point that good and bad are never black and white. Based on what we've seen so far I think the anime will do justice to the concepts quite well in due time.

Classical

05-06-2009, 11:38 AM

Very good episode. I found the whole confrontation with Inferno and the mafia of Melanie Square to be interesting, especially with the boss not wanting to give the place up because the people who resided there were "family." It seems that Claudia wants to turn Zwei into her "plaything." I'm curious to see as to where the Claudia/Zwei thing is going to go. Anyways, the whole incident involving the "negotiations" between Inferno and the mafia was crazy. I'm not surprised that Zwei took down the kid and his mom, but that was still messed up. Anways, at the end of the episode Ein is at home waiting for her "husband" to come home from "work."

05-06-2009, 04:13 PM

The "home" setting with the two of them living alone in that apartment is one of the most unique aspects of Phantom's story. I found the atmosphere that comes out of it to be very original.

This is completely random, but I can't help but wonder if they'll be driving around that crappy Ford Taurus they had in the original game. All the other object elements seem to have been updated to modern day. The mafia in several episodes, for example, were driving a current model of Mercedes Benz.

Suwako Moriya

05-07-2009, 08:44 AM

The more I learn about Inferno the more I grow to dislike them. The entire organization just gives us off way too many "we're evil" vibes for my tastes. This episode only sealed the deal. At this point, I'd like them to bathe in that very special type of fire. Yes, I mean that type of fire. Do I even need to spell it out?

So far the most interesting thing about the show has been Ein. Aside from being hot, she's curious. Mainly because there seems to be subtle hints that her conversion is not 100%. Although one can argue there's not much difference between 99.9% and 100%.

All I know is it seems like this type of series is either going to be a case of "Accepting Fate" or "Fighting Destiny". Which one it turns out to be will determine how I'd ultimately feel about the series.

Just for the record, as interesting as "Accepting Fate" series can be in the short term, once you get past a certain point it becomes easier to just assume things will turn out badly and stop watching.

So yes, as you can see I decided to give the show an actual chance. Although it's hard to say how far I'll be taking it to be honest. Mainly because my feelings are a bit mixed. On one hand, the story is being told pretty well. On the other hand, the actual story itself bothers me in some ways.

On a side note, I need to do a minor update in the "Currently Watching" thread a bit later. Part of it will involve comments on this along with other things. I wonder how long it will take me to make that post. Minutes? Hours? Days?

Orihimes_Boyfriend

05-07-2009, 12:17 PM

Suwako Moriya

05-08-2009, 03:08 AM

I do like it when Ein and Zwei have the undercover jobs where she gets to act like a normal girl for a breif time and not as her normal mindless pupet like state she is in normaly.

Speaking of which, those acting scenes of Ein in episode 4 were both fun and yet depressing. It's like they're essentially saying "Perhaps this is what could have been if not for.....".

Suwako Moriya

05-08-2009, 04:09 AM

In light of what happened in episode, Tony has an idea of how to respond to it. Not that it did any good since Inferno had their owns plans. One of those "Let's do X and make it look like Y happened" plans.

On a more important note. Ein showers. Ein decides to wear a nice dress. Speaking of Ein. Maybe I'm reading too much into it and could be reading it wrong as well. However there are times I wonder if some of her conversations with Zwei about their roles is not just to convince him, but to convince herself as well.

The evil aura from Scythe Master seems to get stronger with each appearance he makes. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be the final boss and/or the main boss. Granted it's probably too early to speculate. Since there's plenty of time to introduce more characters.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

05-08-2009, 10:23 AM

Just finished with episode 6. Overall another good one.

Damn! Ein looked fine in that evening gown. I had a feeling Tony would end up eating a bullet but didn't expect it would come from one of his own men. The scene with Scythe Master taking photos of her nude behind strategically placed mannequins was really creepy and hot at the same time. :sdsmiley:

On a side note Im I the only one that thinks Ms. Maccanon looks hung over every time you see her?

ArcticMech

05-09-2009, 12:20 AM

The evil aura from Scythe Master seems to get stronger with each appearance he makes. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be the final boss and/or the main boss. Granted it's probably too early to speculate. Since there's plenty of time to introduce more characters.

The thing that crossed my mind repeatedly was Scythe Master's growing influence within the organization (safe to say he's now within the inner circle) and Inferno's complete reliance on his Phantom to accomplish its goals. Rather dangerous to place so much power in the hands of such a slippery, self-serving person. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Scythe Master make an power grab for the organization, with the only miscalculation being the seed that McCullum planted into Zwei's head that he needs to think for himself. Well, that's just a thought. In any case, it will be very interesting to see where they take it.

Damn! Ein looked fine in that evening gown. I had a feeling Tony would end up eating a bullet but didn't expect it would come from one of his own men. The scene with Scythe Master taking photos of her nude behind strategically placed mannequins was really creepy and hot at the same time. :sdsmiley:

I'm long since come to the conclusion that Ein is just fine period. One of the most attractive character designs in recent memory when it comes to female physique IMO.

Fencedude

05-09-2009, 01:20 AM

Ein was delicious, as always.

Scythe Master is a creep.

Did I mention Ein was delicious?

Suwako Moriya

05-09-2009, 06:36 AM

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Scythe Master make an power grab for the organization, with the only miscalculation being the seed that McCullum planted into Zwei's head that he needs to think for himself.

Now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised it ended up panning out that way. At the very least chances are good something major will happen within the organization. If for no other reason then sooner or later someone in there will likely want more power.

HitokiriShadow

05-09-2009, 11:36 PM

Oh wow. It was obvious things were not going to end well for Tony, and Anton's betrayal didn't surprise me, but just how badly Inferno crushed him and his organization and played the public opinion was unexpected. That was a pretty impressive plan Scythe Master came up with.

Speaking of which, Scythe Master manages to get creepier by the episode. I hope they kill him off sooner rather than later, but I fear he will be around for a while.

something

05-12-2009, 06:36 PM

Episode 6:

- Eating, killing, it's all the same!
- You know, for some reason I didn't expect to see Tony and the gang again. I thought the story would jump off to another place. So I'm sort of pleasantly surprised to see we're continuing with what started here.
- God damn scythe master. Not only is he a creep, but he's gaining influence, and is driven by the same silly old "reshape the world in my image, overcome god, blah blah" villain motivation. It's a shame he probably won't die until the very end.
- Yay shower. We go from a bad naked Ein scene (die Scythe Master) to a nice naked Ein scene.
- Poor Ein. While I hardly think Claudia is a saint, Zwei lucked out to be taken under her wing. Ein is stuck with the crazy Scythe Master. Claudia tells Zwei to think for himself, to be more than a tool. Scythe Master treats Ein in exactly the opposite way, as a human weapon, as a doll.
- Go Lizzie! Nice to see her tell this douche off, although all it's likely to accomplish is to get her #2 billing on his hit list.
- Ein is so ridiculously hot in anything she wears.
- And the operation was awesome. Ein in the motorcycle suit, oh god.

05-13-2009, 10:34 PM

It was nice to see them continue the plotline from episode 5 rather then just continue to do one off stories for the first part of the series. As something pointed out, Scythe Master gets more and more creepy with each passing episode, but that is how he is supposed to come across so Bee Train is just doing a good job of it. They're really working the visual imagery. It's been hit and miss in the past but the effect is pretty good in this show.

Looks like things are finally going to get a bit more interesting next episode. One of my favorite scenes from the game was in the preview. I'm looking forward to seeing how everybody else interprets things.

Suwako Moriya

05-15-2009, 03:34 PM

The episode definitely had some interesting moments to it. Some of the dialogue between Ein and Zwei can be quite curious. Such as the talk about dreams and such. Still for the most part, it seems the main purpose to episode 7 was to essentially set things up for whatever is going to be happening in episode 8.

HitokiriShadow

05-15-2009, 11:02 PM

Ms McCunnen is making some interesting moves as she apparently begins plans to take out Scythe Master and (presumably) gain more influence in Inferno. Next episode should be very interesting.

Fencedude

05-15-2009, 11:44 PM

Hmm...looks like Claudia wants to groom Zwei to take out both Scythe Master and Ein.

I somehow think that things aren't going to work out quite right for her.

ArcticMech

05-16-2009, 12:01 PM

I guess she's not called Ms. Mc-"Cunning" for nothing. Sets up rather nicely for the fireworks next week. Very interesting.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

05-16-2009, 01:15 PM

Good episode. I liked the dream sequence of what was probably Zwei's past. I loved the part where Ein is talking about how she dreams about colors. She looked so cute and innocent when she is trying to catch the blade of grass in the wind. It looks like they are setting up some type of "civil war" in next weeks episode. It feels like Ein and Zwei may have to square off at some point.
Can't wait for next weeks episode.

something

05-17-2009, 01:05 AM

Episode 7:

- Scythe Master agreed to that way too easily. Is he just drunk on the idea of more accomplishments for Phantom? Or is he just that blindly trusting of the person who hates him most? Has to be the former, plus confidence that he can turn it around to his exclusive benefit.
- Ohhh man. I love watching Claudia work on Zwei. She's so... hard to read. What is she going for? Scythe Master is easy - he's a loon and wants power, and above all to bask in the praise given to his greatest creations. But Claudia is holding her cards much closer to her (ample) chest.
- Hmmm! It looks like she's trying to secure a power base of her own. I think she can see how her position is eroding vis-a-vis Scythe Master's, and wants to counteract that. I still think she's totally screwed and will never survive this show, but right now she's quite possibly the most interesting character.
- Meanwhile Ein is not reacting well to Scythe Master's comment about her meeting Zwei being pure coincidence. He's really working her growing attachment to Zwei to his advantage, and if Claudia does die, then I put damn good odds on Ein pulling the trigger, naturally on Scythe Master's order.
- Very good flashback, finally we see how Scythe Master came upon Zwei as a subject. But remembering that is going to drive Ein and Zwei further apart, most likely.
- When Zwei asks Ein about dreams on the railroad tracks... man that is a nicely done scene.
- Hah, nice move Claudia. Make your own request look like something Scythe Master cooked up. Alas, seeing her be clever just makes me worry that her life span is ever shortening.

Fuuuuuuck that was fantastic. This is definitely looking to be my #3 show of the season after K-ON! and Eden.

Fencedude

05-17-2009, 01:32 AM

I still think she's totally screwed and will never survive this show,

I have a feeling she's going to be in good company in that department.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

05-17-2009, 10:58 AM

If anyone gets knocked off first I'd put my money on Lizzie. She right now just seems like a throw away character at the moment.

I do like how they from time to time will slip in a tiny sliver of comedy like with the burning eggs in episode 7.

HitokiriShadow

05-17-2009, 07:53 PM

I still think she's totally screwed and will never survive this show,

I have a feeling she's going to be in good company in that department.

Indeed, I expect about 99% of the cast to in that category when the final credits roll. I not so much a matter of who dies, but in what order. One can only hope Scythe Master is high on the list and Claudia low.

That said, while Claudia's chances of survival are extremely low, she's also probably the only Inferno member that has even a slightly reasonable chance of surviving. The rest are pretty much guaranteed to die.

05-17-2009, 10:16 PM

If anyone gets knocked off first I'd put my money on Lizzie. She right now just seems like a throw away character at the moment.

Lizzie has been downplayed by the anime so far. She is actually a pretty major character.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

05-21-2009, 01:54 PM

Man this show continues to get better each week. I didn't think we'd learn Zewi's real name so soon. The scene with Zewi AKA Reiji Asuma removing the bullet from Ein's leg was pretty intense.It will be interesting to see witch side he takes.

Suwako Moriya

05-21-2009, 03:23 PM

Ah, so Zwei has learned about his past and his real name. Also, he has a choice to make and his choice is Ein. A choice that will require a lot of effort on his part.

Still I guess it means he's dedicated to her? *Watches preview* Oh, it's going to be fun finding out what this new name for Ein aka Phantom ends up being.

In any case, this current direction has potential to make the story a lot more interesting than it was before. Definitely glad to see what could have ended up as a long term pattern be broken already.

ArcticMech

05-22-2009, 06:02 AM

Nice to meet you, Reiji Azuma.

Claudia gave Zwei a nice gift, a chance to leave this whole mess behind. But could he really have gone back to his old life in Japan with all that blood on his hands? Not only that, but he's suddenly forced to take out the most important person in his life since he was forced to give up his old life. Oh, Claudia. Such a cruel, cruel lady. She's definitely not someone I'd want to be my Secret Santa. But there's probably no better way to assess where his loyalties lie.

Of course, the man formerly known as #2 would choose #1. Despite being trained to have no emotion, to not think and just follow orders, they've developed this bond between them through their shared circumstances, which have made it so they've really got no one to lean on, and no one to relate to, except for each other. Of course, Reiji's decision was not swayed in the least bit by the fact that the first two images of Ein that crossed his mind were of her in a fetching swimsuit and one of her in a towel. ;)

Anyway, he's made his choice and he needs to figure out a way to escape from Inferno. Judging by the preview, it looks like he'll have a tough time with that. Like Shiki, I can't wait to find out what Ein's name will be. Assuming the pair figures out a way to escape from Inferno, they'll probably still have Scythe Master to contend with. Although Reiji's allegiance is clear, creepy Scythe Master still holds great influence over Ein. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

After this excellent episode, I think I can now safely say that Phantom is my #1 show of the current season. It's certainly the show I look forward to most each week. I love this tragic (but sexy) couple. They've done a great job setting the atmosphere and tone for this show, while keeping it consistent throughout. The story has unfolded at a very enjoyable pace with enough twists and gripping, tense moments. Nice pickup for Funimation.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

05-23-2009, 12:21 PM

After this excellent episode, I think I can now safely say that Phantom is my #1 show of the current season. It's certainly the show I look forward to most each week. I love this tragic (but sexy) couple. They've done a great job setting the atmosphere and tone for this show, while keeping it consistent throughout. The story has unfolded at a very enjoyable pace with enough twists and gripping, tense moments. Nice pickup for Funimation.
I couldn't agree more. Funimation has given us another gem in the anime world this year. This along with FMA Brotherhood is the reason im glued to funimation.com every Thursday. I can't wait to hear the dub version at some point. And while I think there a good group I'm getting a little tired of hearing Ali Project do all these anime themes lately. But thats for a different topic. :P

05-23-2009, 08:18 PM

Nice pickup for Funimation.

Too bad it is streaming rights only at the moment. There is no evidence they have the home video rights yet. The fact that the title is listed in their most recent survey supports this too, though it seems like a shoo in to get licensed at some point this year so I'm not exactly worried.

As for the show..... heheh, I can't wait to see how people will react to what's coming up.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

05-24-2009, 06:07 AM

Yeah I want to get this series on DVD cause I know Funimation would/will give it a good release. Anyway I want to see the next episode NOW! :P

HitokiriShadow

05-24-2009, 09:14 PM

Claudia was fantastic this episode. All in all, it was a nice way to end the first act.

Here's hoping Scythe gets offed soon.

Suwako Moriya

05-24-2009, 09:16 PM

Here's hoping Scythe gets offed soon.

I hope so too, but I get the feeling that he'll survive a long time simply because I hate him.

Fencedude

05-26-2009, 03:21 AM

That was fantastic, was not expecting this to happen so soon (though it obviously had to happen), and the way it was done was just brilliant.

And Claudia...doesn't seem upset with how events have turned out, does she? I guess having Zwei on her side would have been useful, but hardly critical to her plans.

She's pretty cold for setting up Lizzie that way though.

Suwako Moriya

05-26-2009, 09:19 AM

That was fantastic, was not expecting this to happen so soon (though it obviously had to happen), and the way it was done was just brilliant.

In the context of being a 26 episode series, I wouldn't have expected this type of episode until at least episode 14. Maybe even as late as 19. Or maybe not exactly 14 or 19, but around there.

The fact they decided to have this happen in episode 08 as opposed to playing the game of "Let's see how many example episodes that we can get away with" is kind of nice. Simply because it gives them more time to work with. Since less time is wasted on example episodes.

05-26-2009, 07:12 PM

That was fantastic, was not expecting this to happen so soon (though it obviously had to happen), and the way it was done was just brilliant.

In the context of being a 26 episode series, I wouldn't have expected this type of episode until at least episode 14. Maybe even as late as 19. Or maybe not exactly 14 or 19, but around there.

This is when it gets really good. It's all about establishing the right atmosphere to suck you in to improve on the mood and feel of what is to come, and this is when they really work on that. Rest assured this won't be the last time this series surprises you. :)

Orihimes_Boyfriend

05-28-2009, 02:49 PM

Another piece of what is become an amazing series. It will be intersting if we find out were Reiji came up with Eren (Ein;s new name) It looked like it was written in his passport. The scene in the car were there talking about the song on the radio was neat. I guess it was easier just to use the OP theme for that scene.

05-28-2009, 03:09 PM

Fencedude

05-31-2009, 12:16 AM

On an entirely irrelevant note, Zwei's white Ford Taurus makes its appearance! I got a kick out of how much effort they put into clearly making it easily identifiable as such. You can even tell it's a '96 or '97 model. Apparently not all badass assassins drive around in a black BMW 5 series.

Hah, yeah. It was very notable as "their" car.

Also, Ellen? Seriously? Ah well. Here's to hoping Scythe dies a horrible death next week.

05-31-2009, 04:10 PM

I seem to recall this part of the story being handled a little better in the game (especially the interrogation), but I won't say anything in case they're planning to show some of what I'm thinking of in ep. 10.

Suwako Moriya

05-31-2009, 04:16 PM

Seeing Ein break down and Reiji end up giving her the new name of Eren was the defining moment of the episode. Although it's quite clear that Ein/Eren is still somewhat chained.

On a side note, I have to keep checking in thread mode.... because sure enough episode 9 is being talked about in the episode 8 sub thread. Just as episode 8 was being talked about in the episode 7 sub thread....:sweat:

ArcticMech

05-31-2009, 04:37 PM

Seeing Ein break down and Reiji end up giving her the new name of Eren was the defining moment of the episode.

As was Reiji tearing up his passport in front of Ein/Eren/Ellen. Actions speak louder than words and that gesture was worth more than screaming "I love you" a thousand times over in my book.

Yeah, unfortunately, much work still needs to be done to undo the thorough brainwashing job Scythe Master did on her.

something

05-31-2009, 09:09 PM

Episode 8:

- Claudia does not pull punches. She's sure tempted Zwei with something interesting. This is definitely her making her move, and I'm not sure it'll end well for her. However, she's doing it fairly early so I doubt she'll die yet.
- And Scythe Master has Ein taking out Lizzie, or trying to.
- Getting Zwei's real name this early feels so strange. Azuma Reiji! Ah, she's both very kind and horribly cruel at the same time.
- Lizzie could see that it was Ein in the darkness from that far? :sd:
- Holy crap! Lizzie got the drop on Ein. That's quite impressive.
- And Zwei realizes the choice Claudia gave him only really has one answer.
- Owwww, it's not even a typical shot-in-the-shoulder-okay-with-a-bandage anime gunshot wound either. Ein got shot right in the frickin pelvis. Now that sucks.
- But damn things sure got intense early on, didn't they? It's amazing that we're only at episode 8 (er, assuming I'm remembering right and this is 2 cour?) and Scythe Master has already made himself the enemy of Inferno.
- Oh ho ho! Claudia, you crafty little bitch! Well played, but your evil level just shot up significantly.
- Well this is one way to get closer to Ein... Nothing like a little one on one surgery with a red hot knife to give you a memory you'll talk about for years. >_>
- Eiiiiiiin! ;_; Hearing her scream was really disturbing. Poor Ein. ;_;

Well that was fantastic. Escaping from Inferno in episode 8? Holy crap. But, uh, how silly is it that Inferno "looked all over" and never through to check their original base of operations? :sd:

something

05-31-2009, 09:57 PM

Episode 9:

- Grrr. Ein, don't let Scythe control you. It seems inevitable with so much story left to tell that she'll fall under his control again, but I'm really, really not looking forward to it.
- At least she's staying put for now.
- And oh Godo family or whoever you were. You think you're using Claudia? Hah! Good luck!
- Oooh, emotion! Ein really freaks out (well, for her) when he tears up his passport. Man, this is such a wonderful turn of events but I'm worried it's too soon. I don't want to see all this awesomeness happen and then have Scythe Master just snatch Ein back up and make her his bitch for 10 episodes.
- I wonder how much money they have on hand? Surely any electronic accounts have been frozen by now.
- Eren (Erin?) eh? Well, it's easy enough to remember coming from Ein.
- Noooo, fucking Scythe Master found her. ;_;
- Damn, Lizzie is good. She's now managed to get the upper hand on both Eren *and* Reiji.
- At least Reiji is determined to kill Scythe, even if it's from more Claudia manipulation. But this guarantees lots of Reiji vs Eren now.

Well, we'll see how it goes. I'll be quite disappointed if Eren spends a large chunk of time back in Scythe Master's hands, because she and Reiji are at their best when they're together, not when they're being manipulated by Scythe and Claudia.

On a side note, I have to keep checking in thread mode.... because sure enough episode 9 is being talked about in the episode 8 sub thread. Just as episode 8 was being talked about in the episode 7 sub thread....:sweat:
Yeah... please be careful about that, guys. I was moving through the ep 8 subthread in threaded mode and just barely managed to pull out in time when it suddenly transitioned into ep 9 chatter.

regz91

06-01-2009, 04:32 PM

- Oooh, emotion! Ein really freaks out (well, for her) when he tears up his passport. Man, this is such a wonderful turn of events but I'm worried it's too soon. I don't want to see all this awesomeness happen and then have Scythe Master just snatch Ein back up and make her his bitch for 10 episodes.

You know, I've seen this sentiment around over the past few days, and it really cracks me up. If anything, I think the show has been far too SLOW in getting to this point. For me, the story really starts when Zwei takes Ein away and gives her her new name, and everything that comes before that is pretty disposable. When this show was first announced, I was sort of pulling for a 13-episode run, in large part because director Koichi Mashimo is infamous for his agonizingly slow pace - and even though my fears about his direction have been proven largely wrong and the show has turned out wonderfully so far, I still think 9 episodes to reach this point is on the high side. That's a third of the show on what I think is a necessary but pretty boring setup phase.

I suppose I'm quite happy that some people are enjoying the show so much that they would have been satisfied with the status quo. But, for me anyway, whenever I talk about how great the story is, I am most definitely not talking about Ein and Zwei running around doing assassinations for Inferno. That was important to show, to establish all the characters and their motivations, but I'm glad to put that behind us and get on to things that I think are much more interesting.

something

06-01-2009, 04:49 PM

You know, I've seen this sentiment around over the past few days, and it really cracks me up. If anything, I think the show has been far too SLOW in getting to this point. For me, the story really starts when Zwei takes Ein away and gives her her new name, and everything that comes before that is pretty disposable.
Well, you're going off prior knowledge of how the story plays out. I had never heard of Phantom before the anime was announced. So coming into it blind and basing my opinion purely off these 9 episodes, I was surprised this development came so soon. Well, actually, my surprise isn't necessarily so much that it came "too soon" as that once it came, it came and went immediately. They escaped and were recaptured in one episode, which was unexpected. That's fine and all if that turns out to be the best choice for the story in the long run, but of course I have no idea.

So I'm saying the pacing of this event was unexpected, not bad. I won't know if it was good or bad until I see how everything else plays out. Though I was bummed to see their life of freedom last about a day. I am not really relishing the possibility of Eren being under Scythe's control for an extended time again.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

06-04-2009, 03:11 PM

Does anyone know when Funimation plans to post episode 10?

something

06-07-2009, 05:59 PM

Episode 10:

- Scythe is going to call in some old debts with the Russians? And Reiji is completely broken to Claudia's will. He's all about killing Scythe now. Oh how I wish that would happen. Reluctantly Lizzy follows Claudia's orders to bring Reiji along to the mission to kill Scythe before he can escape with his Russian arms dealer buddy.
- Urgh, fuck you Scythe (or rather, Dr. Guiseppe). Eren/Erin/Ellen/Ein begins to ask him a question, and before she can get more than a few words out, he gets furious and slaps her for asking questions. See, both Scythe and Claudia are manipulative and evil, but Scythe does it in a way that just begs for you to hate him more.
- Lizzy (or was it Lizzie, whatever) still doesn't trust Reiji. His way of reassuring her is to pop every bullet out of his pistol except one. One that is reserved to kill Scythe. I think he's going to regret going in with so little ammo.
- That didn't take long. One of Claudia's men (who must have lost his brother to Eren's attack earlier) is about to kill Reiji, and Reiji can't use his only bullet on him. Conveniently, Eren kills the guy. Reiji gets the drop on Eren, bu hesitates, and now she's got her gun pointed at him. But then *she* hesitates and...
- ...Scythe ruins their moment. =( Although he's chased off by Lizzie, who conveniently forgets how to shoot at misses both Scythe and Eren. :sd: On the upside, she trusts Reiji now.
- Oh wow, please let this go how it's loking to go. Scythe is cornered by Reiji, winds up killing one of the Russian guy's men accidentally, and is looking generally terrified while Reiji plays with him. Die die die die die!
- Damnit Reiji, stop dawdling. Shoot him! the longer you wait the more chance there is Eren will stop you (though her gun just jammed).
- ...Ugh. They go for the worst route possible and have Eren throw herself in front of Scythe, saving him and earning her a bullet in the chest. -_-
- Then Scythe gets smug and shoots Reiji a lot. Though he manages to wash up on shore somewhere looking alive enough. But the next ep is titled "Successor" so we'll see where it goes.

Well that's exceptionally annoying.

HitokiriShadow

06-07-2009, 06:04 PM

Uh, well, I really wasn't expecting things to end like that. For a little while it looked like they would actually kill off Scythe this episode. It's a real shame they didn't.

In any case, that was certainly an interesting and unexpected direction to go.

Fencedude

06-07-2009, 07:09 PM

Huh...interesting.

Curious to see where things go from here, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Ellen isn't dead.

Fencedude

06-14-2009, 02:45 AM

Wow, that was lame. Episode was 90% recap, with most of the new content at the end, but just enough scattered through to make skipping difficult.

But! Next time! Finally~~~~

regz91

06-14-2009, 03:59 AM

*smashes head against monitor*

Someone please tell me that last part was a joke. I barely made it through the last episode as it is. As I've said before, Phantom's strength is in the way it grounds itself in the realm of plausibility - Reiji taking 4 shots point-blank and coming out of it with no discernible injuries doesn't exactly qualify. But the last part of this episode went beyond that into straight-on parody. Please, for the love of God, tell me this is the last time we will see freaking ROBES in Phantom.

Capping off the ridiculousness of that last scene was a distinctly Mashimo-ish BGM that I definitely know Hikaru Nanase didn't write. I checked the credits, and sure enough, there's a second composer now credited for the series, Tatsuya Katou. His only previous credit is on Spider Riders, another Mashimo show. Presumably Mashimo wanted someone else on staff he was familiar with to deliver some of the tracks that he wasn't getting from Nanase. Suffice it to say, I don't like it.

And then finally, add in the horrible news that ALI PROJECT will do the next OP . . . it's not looking good. The show had such a great run up to this point, but the past week or so has just been bad news, one after the other.

Wow, that left a bad taste in my mouth. If only the next episode would introduce my favorite character to cheer me up . . . oh wait, that's exactly what's going to happen. Excellent. That'll get me back in the mood for this show again. To commemorate the occasion, the official website has put up (http://www.phantom-r.jp/season2.html) a little something to preview what they are somewhat whimsically calling "Season 2". It definitely looks nice. Miyuki Sawashiro sounds great in the preview as well. I really think these past two weeks have been something of an aberration, and next week will get us back on track to the show's usual standards.

REDEEM YOURSELVES, GODDAMMIT.

Fencedude

06-14-2009, 04:19 AM

And then finally, add in the horrible news that ALI PROJECT will do the next OP . . . it's not looking good. The show had such a great run up to this point, but the past week or so has just been bad news, one after the other.

You know, the screaming about ALI PROJECT is really starting to get tiring.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

06-14-2009, 06:06 AM

I really hope Funimation posts episode 10 and 11 on Monday. I mean the suspense is killing me. :P
and I don't feel like reading the early reviews here.

06-14-2009, 03:44 PM

*smashes head against monitor*

I can't help but feel you're over-reacting a bit. Also, as Fence has already said, the lack of love for Ali Project is well known at this point. They basically do all the opening themes for Bee Train shows so I'm not sure why you're so surprised.

My only concern is that this recent material felt a bit rushed. They could've taken their time and let the weight of the events settle a bit more before the big moment. It seems like somebody on staff is in a big hurry to get to the next arc for some reason.

HitokiriShadow

06-14-2009, 08:44 PM

Well that was obnoxious. Over 3/4 of the episode was recap and 90% of it happened in the past 3 episodes. Worse, it showed scenes almost at random, with no real flow or context, making it useless to anyone who would actually want to use it to get up to speed on the story. It was probably the most pointless recap episode ever.

At least we got a little bit of interesting background on Claudia. Too bad you had to sit through all that recap crap to see it.

something

06-14-2009, 08:52 PM

Episode 11:

- Okay, so why are we getting a pseudo-recap episode? Recap episodes have been getting so rare in recent seasons that the few that crop up always take me by surprise.
- Well, six minutes wasted but now we're into some interesting stuff, like Claudia's background.
- Nope, spoke too soon, back to recap. Oh well at least I can get this episode watched more quickly than usual by skipping through it.
- Three months (and near 17 minutes) later... Jeeze, about time guys.
- Stupid Scythe. Seems to be getting in good with the people Claudia tried to get on her side.
- The recap isn't done yet? Seriously now.
- ...lol, has Claudia started dressing Reiji?

Well yeah pretty much a wasted week, but it'll be back to interesting stuff in 12 I guess. Reiji goes totally flamboyant and gets a cute little sidekick (and some ass)! :sd:

Suwako Moriya

06-14-2009, 08:54 PM

Well that was obnoxious. Over 3/4 of the episode was recap and 90% of it happened in the past 3 episodes.

WTF? That gives me the impression of one of those scenarios where the staff is like "Crap, we're not ready yet. Quick throw something together!" or something like that. Hopefully this episode is just a fluke.

Simply because I do have plans to return to watching this in the far future, I'd hate for the eventual return to be met by a series deciding it wanted to go downhill.

regz91

06-15-2009, 01:26 AM

WTF? That gives me the impression of one of those scenarios where the staff is like "Crap, we're not ready yet. Quick throw something together!" or something like that. Hopefully this episode is just a fluke.

Well, I certainly wouldn't go that far. Phantom simply isn't a long enough story to go a full 26 episodes, which is why they have the time to do some anime-original stories. I suppose for this episode they decided to fill some time by doing a recap instead of another original story (well, actually this episode is sort of a mix of both, really).

To look at it another way - a lot of shows nowadays fill this time by taking a week off entirely, which is why we get a lot of 24-episode shows now. This episode may not be as good as getting a full episode, but I think it's better than skipping a week entirely.

something

06-15-2009, 07:40 AM

To look at it another way - a lot of shows nowadays fill this time by taking a week off entirely, which is why we get a lot of 24-episode shows now. This episode may not be as good as getting a full episode, but I think it's better than skipping a week entirely.
I dunno, that might be debatable actually. :sd:

About the RIDICULOUS ROBES AND SWORDS... they are, indeed, utterly ridiculous and when I saw them I ceased taking the scene seriously (not that I was anyway, dumb recap is dumb) and just started laughing. But, the leader of Phantom is pretty ludicrously flamboyant himself, so it doesn't actually surprise me too much to see that loon getting even loonier like this. :sd:

Anyway, 11 is fail, I better get some MURDER LOLI ACTION next week.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

06-16-2009, 10:18 AM

Episodes that are mostly or all recap are always a waste of time IMO.

Not I really know in this shows case since Im watching on the Funi Video Portal and were 2 EPISODES BEHIND!!!! ( sorry just venting)

06-19-2009, 01:39 AM

Phantom simply isn't a long enough story to go a full 26 episodes, which is why they have the time to do some anime-original stories.

I don't think this is necessarily true. If they take their time to tell the story fully I think it takes up that much time without needing to add filler. There is quite a bit later on that can be told in detail which could take up time deceptively quickly.

The recap itself is a disappointment. I think they could have expounded on a few things that were sort of glazed over a bit in this most recent story arc.

Fencedude

06-26-2009, 04:33 PM

CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLL!!!!!!!

SAWASHIRO MIYUKI AS CAL!!!!

...that is all.

HitokiriShadow

06-26-2009, 09:18 PM

Inferno sure does like those horribly impractical and incredibly failure prone methods of assassinations, don't they?

It looks like Cal will be a major character. She had very little screentime but I really like what little I saw.

Fencedude

06-26-2009, 09:25 PM

Inferno sure does like those horribly impractical and incredibly failure prone methods of assassinations, don't they?

What could possibly go wrong with using an M-16 to snipe a guy out of a box from an opera stage?

Fencedude

06-28-2009, 03:18 AM

And Cal's trip down the path to an Assassin begins, as a lie to cover up someone else's mistake.

Oh yeah, and the fact that Isaac's an asshole. But he's right, Claudia is up to something.

And Cal is just adorable in everything she does.

HitokiriShadow

06-28-2009, 11:11 PM

Well, that pretty much seals Cal as my favorite character in the series. I wonder what she did to that clock...

I'm hoping for a new OP/ED with Cal in it next episode.

Fencedude

06-28-2009, 11:16 PM

Well, that pretty much seals Cal as my favorite character in the series. I wonder what she did to that clock...

That was interesting, wasn't it?

Not really something you'd expect out of someone like her, curious to see what it has to do with things.

Also, it may have been last episode, I forget, but did anyone else notice a short haired female figure hanging out on a rooftop?

HitokiriShadow

06-28-2009, 11:19 PM

Also, it may have been last episode, I forget, but did anyone else notice a short haired female figure hanging out on a rooftop?

Yeah, that was episode 12, when Reiji and Claudia discovered the dead bodies. Reiji seemed to sense something and it showed her. I thought it was fairly obvious and obviously Ein, so it didn't seem particularly noteworthy. Unless you were thinking of some other scene?

Fencedude

06-28-2009, 11:21 PM

regz91

06-29-2009, 01:33 AM

Well, that pretty much seals Cal as my favorite character in the series. I wonder what she did to that clock...

I'm hoping for a new OP/ED with Cal in it next episode.

I wouldn't count on it. There are a lot of reasons why, but here's a big one - the OP already has Cal in it. Not to mention Reiji in his new snazzy suit. This is an OP that was clearly meant to last all the way through this chapter of the story. I was a little surprised not to get at least new visuals for the ED though, but that's the way it goes. I think you'll have to be satisfied with the adorable new eyecatch.

I was impressed by the level of detail in these last two episodes. Reiji has been transformed into almost an completely new character, and the directing style makes the transformation both noticeable and believable. The new suit and haircut, as well as Reiji's own body language, convey a lot of that just visually, before he even utters a word. Cal gets the same amount of detail as well, making her a fully-formed character despite her limited screen time so far. The show has a steep hill to climb with her, casting her as the lead female character after having invested so much time with Elen. It's a little different with the game - players often switch between different heroines anyway, so it's not a difficult transition. It's much harder with an anime telling a linear story, but they really pull it off. Cal is my favorite character and I would have been pretty pissed if people starting dissing her because the anime couldn't put her over with the fans.

This is exactly what everybody had been hoping from this show -a successful fusion of Nitroplus' story and Bee Train's direction. Koichi Mashimo is an often brilliant visual director who doesn't always come up with the greatest plot, while the original Phantom of Inferno was a beautiful story with obviously limited visuals. The combination of the two would either be a trainwreck or a work of art. Despite my complaints with some of their decisions, overall it has been very much the latter so far. These last two episodes have been incredible, especially when you consider how easy it would be for fans to turn against the show for seemingly removing Elen from the story. Obviously, Elen remains an important part of the show, even if it's just Reiji reminiscing about her, but the focus is definitely somewhere else for now and it's easy to see how that could go so very wrong.

There are a lot of other great parts that really paid attention to detail. I was pretty hard on Bee Train for the way they shot Reiji up so much in episode 10, so it's only fair that I mention that I really liked seeing the bullet wounds on his side in this episode. Whether I personally like them or not, I always appreciate it when a show puts a lot of thought into the changes they make to its source material, and I think they did put a lot of thought into shooting Reiji up instead of doing it on a whim. I find I like the scars as a physical metaphor for the things that Reiji lost that night. It's that kind of detail that is making this show so great.

HitokiriShadow

06-29-2009, 01:42 AM

Fencedude

06-29-2009, 01:46 AM

Ah, right, the OP has a young girl in a mask at some point doesn't it? It's been a while since I actually watched the OP and I forgot about that part. Yeah, its probably not going to happen, but I still want a new OP giving Cal a bit more prominence.

She's actually in the op a couple of times, but the most prominent appearance is right after Claudia and Lizzie, there is a closeup on her face.

Timestamp 1:21

Fencedude

06-29-2009, 01:48 AM

I think you'll have to be satisfied with the adorable new eyecatch.

The Eyecatch is fantastic.

Fencedude

06-29-2009, 02:58 AM

I was thinking, it will be interesting to see what the training does to Cal. I find it highly unlikely that Reiji has any interest in turning her into an emotionless killing machine like he and Ein were, and her base personality is much more...uhh...outgoing to begin with.

Westlo

06-29-2009, 03:55 AM

Fencedude

06-29-2009, 03:58 AM

http://kacpy.blogsome.com/2009/06/07/phantom-tv-2nd-opening-by/

I don't want it :(

Eh, whatever. I really can't make myself really care anymore.

I'd rather they start hiring Yousei Teikoku though. They are sadly underused.

(or they could just get FictionJunction to do it...)

HitokiriShadow

06-29-2009, 11:22 AM

http://kacpy.blogsome.com/2009/06/07/phantom-tv-2nd-opening-by/

I don't want it :(

.... Well, I'm at least looking forward to the new animation. Who knows, maybe the music will actually be good. The first ED was actually okay on its own (I watched the whole ED for the first 5-6 episodes, after all) and their style fits decently will with this series (unlike many other shows they do OP/EDs for), its just the fact that it still sounds like almost everything they've ever done that is the problem.

Fencedude

06-29-2009, 08:31 PM

I was just checking some things in episode 1, and Cal is shown at the very end of the episode, but right before her there is a scene in a Japanese school, showing one particular girl.

I'd remembered Cal being there, but not that other scene.

something

06-29-2009, 10:03 PM

Episode 12:

- Ahahah! Oh Reiji, you so stylin'. Claudia clearly expects a different aesthetic from her own Phantom. Though no doubt influenced by Inferno's Mr. Flamboyant.
- Sa-Sa-Sa-Sa-Sawashiro MIYUUUUUUKIIIIII!! Oh fuuuuuuck yes!
- Looks like Claudia is becoming a Scythe Master of her own (but so much hotter), and creating her own stir in the organization. And Lizie seems to approve of this new Reiji (hmm so Claudia is still calling him Zwei). Or at the least she's impressed.
- Hahah, oh Reiji, being so slick now. He and Claudia must have had a lot of fun these past six+ months.
- But he's not broken completely...he remembers Elen.
- Yes! Cal joins the eyecatch! =D Oh god I need more of her right now.
- Oh that is sooooo Elen. Scythe Master is already messing with Claudia's plans.
- Wow, that sure turned on Isaac quickly.
- PARTNER!! CAL! YAY! Interesting, I thought she was going to be, say, a childhood assassin or the like. And hell she may yet be, but so far she seems... normal?

But however they use her, she's awesome so far and SAWASHIRO MIYUKI MAKES EVERYTHING BETTER!

something

06-29-2009, 10:30 PM

Episode 13:

- Cal <3 Burger! Ahaha, wow she is going to be amazing for Reiji. Just when he'd totally given in to Inferno, and fate, this little bombshell walks into his life.
- Hmmm. There's got to be way, way more to Cal than she lets on. Reiji is playing his logically, but she's not budging at all. There's something more she wants here.
- Oh man, if this is indeed intentional, she is good. That little tear did the trick.
- CAL IS AMAZING. BEST CHARACTER, CONFIRMED!
- ...She's adorable.
- And she's definitely not clueless about how to survive in a dark world. Not that she had any real way to get out of that situation, but she's intriguing me more and more.
- ...She had the money! Holy crap. That's brilliant. This girl was carrying around $5,000,000. Of course one of the people she wants to see dead is, unbeknownst to her, Reiji himself...
- And Reiji got out of the situation with Inferno for the moment, but he's sure upped expectations. Well played by him and Lizzie, but what now? Meanwhile back at his place, Cal is perhaps showing off some of the skills that might save her... Or doom her? Really there's no easy way out of this for either of them now.

Damn guys, it's really time to change this ED.

Two brilliant episodes again, definitely making up for the recap. NEED MORE CAL! CAL IS LOVE!

something

06-29-2009, 10:34 PM

These last two episodes have been incredible, especially when you consider how easy it would be for fans to turn against the show for seemingly removing Elen from the story.
That was definitely my issue. With the way the initial Elen/Reiji plot ended, I was left feeling pretty dissatisfied and bitter so they were going to need to justify it with something utterly, fantastically amazing.

Then came Cal.

And utterly, fantastically amazing she sure as fuck is.

something

06-29-2009, 10:35 PM

http://kacpy.blogsome.com/2009/06/07/phantom-tv-2nd-opening-by/
I don't want it :(
Oh god why!? ;_; There are other artists out there. Try them!

angelx03

06-30-2009, 11:32 AM

- CAL IS AMAZING. BEST CHARACTER, CONFIRMED!

Indeed....

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3466/1246377675751.jpg

Fencedude

06-30-2009, 11:42 AM

- CAL IS AMAZING. BEST CHARACTER, CONFIRMED!

Indeed....

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3466/1246377675751.jpg

Highly improbably yuri is highly improbable. But very hot.

Also, I made that into a wallpaper. Delicious.

Fencedude

07-05-2009, 07:02 PM

Cal's training begins, and she's just terminally adorable.

And Reiji...sees Elen?

something

07-05-2009, 08:51 PM

Episode 14:

- Hamburger soup! Cal! <3
- Cal does Eastwood! Ahaha. But damn it's sad seeing her be so cute and funny and knowing that within a few episodes she's probably going to have gone through some awful shit. =/ I wonder if she'll be able to overcome the training and indoctrination in a way that Elen and Reiji could not?
- ...But watching her here I can't imagine how Reiji is going to be able to break her without breaking his own soul. He doesn't want her to become like him, or like Elen. Neither do I. ;_;
- Oh wow, Claudia is going to use this to get Isaac offed. She's a scheming bitch, but she's so good at it.
- And there's Scythe master, playing the Godou group in his own way. Man, they're being batted around like a tennis ball.
- Heh, whatever her faults, you can't accuse Claudia of leaving everything up to her subordinates. She's quite 'active" in her own ways.
- CAL EYECATCH~!
- CAL YOU ARE SO CUUUTE~!
- Oh wow, what a place to bring her.
- And yep, she's a prodigy. If only she were in a show where she could be working for the good guys. :sd:
- Elen gets the drop on Reiji again! She's showing you that she's still the master...

I'm actally hoping they focus more on Cal for awhile rather than bring Elen back into it too soon, but fantastic episode anyway.

HitokiriShadow

07-06-2009, 01:35 PM

Cal is too cute. <3 <3 I suspect its less that she's a prodigy and more that she has prior experience.

Meanwhile, the two brothers are in the process of getting their shit messed up. They could not possibly have picked a worse "coordinator".

something

07-06-2009, 01:54 PM

Cal is too cute. <3 <3 I suspect its less that she's a prodigy and more that she has prior experience.
Hmmm. Possibly, but if she's already been "tainted" with involvement in the darker side of life, that would lessen the impact of what training as an assassin would do to her. It's more of a tragedy to see an innocent girl like her dragged into this depressing world of excess and murder first by coincidence and then through her own unconscious abilities. And it seems to me like that's the angle they're moving her in.

I guess it depends what you're saying she has experience in. Shooting people, fighting, killing? I don't think she does. But prior experience in blending into an environment, staying alive, being resourceful, playing the emotions and expectations of people around her, etc? Definitely.

I wonder what Reiji will do when he puts two and two together (as he probably already has) and realizes that one of the people he's promised to murder is Elen. (And himself for that matter, since she wanted to see the people involved in the deal dead too...)

It's like he's being forced to choose between them... Choose Cal! DO IT!

Meanwhile, the two brothers are in the process of getting their shit messed up. They could not possibly have picked a worse "coordinator".
I almost feel sorry for them. :sd:

HitokiriShadow

07-06-2009, 10:47 PM

Cal is too cute. <3 <3 I suspect its less that she's a prodigy and more that she has prior experience.
Hmmm. Possibly, but if she's already been "tainted" with involvement in the darker side of life, that would lessen the impact of what training as an assassin would do to her. It's more of a tragedy to see an innocent girl like her dragged into this depressing world of excess and murder first by coincidence and then through her own unconscious abilities. And it seems to me like that's the angle they're moving her in.

I guess it depends what you're saying she has experience in. Shooting people, fighting, killing? I don't think she does. But prior experience in blending into an environment, staying alive, being resourceful, playing the emotions and expectations of people around her, etc? Definitely.

I was thinking she might have experience in gun use and killing people, hence why she's so good. I'm thinking she might just be pretending to have never used one before. I don't think she's completely fabricating her personality like Ein did back at the beginning of the series, but its pretty clear she has her own secrets and I'm not entirely convinced she's yet been completely truthful in her story regarding Judy.

Sly05

07-10-2009, 08:48 AM

I gave up on waiting for FUNi to get their stream back up and caught up on this last night. Cal is ridiculously awesome and has quickly become the best character character in the show. I loved her gunslinger practice at the abandoned warehouse. I hope it turns out to just be a way for her to protect herself rather than going down the hired murderer route.

Regarding Elen's return, I'm hoping she's operating independently and not for that Scythe Master jerk. She needs to hurry up and re-team with Reiji so they can start an incredibly adorable (and deadly) family with Cal as the little sister/daughter.

something

07-10-2009, 01:40 PM

Regarding Elen's return, I'm hoping she's operating independently and not for that Scythe Master jerk.
Would be wonderful, but there's no rationale for her actions if she's not under his thumb again. =(

He just needs to diiiiie.

Sly05

07-10-2009, 04:55 PM

Maybe she's working on her own to try and bring down Inferno and rescue Reiji? Yeah, I'm kind of grasping at straws though her reason for sticking with Scythe isn't particularly rationale either. At least with how unlikable he is, the inevitable moment he does die is going to be great.

07-10-2009, 05:43 PM

Yeah, I'm kind of grasping at straws though her reason for sticking with Scythe isn't particularly rationale either.

She was manipulated psychologically a lot longer than Zwei was. The whole point of brainwashing and conditioning is to establish absolute obedience, so it's hard to blame Ein/Elen for staying with Scythe.

Fencedude

07-12-2009, 08:25 PM

Lots of Cal awesomeness in this episode.

And Ein, I don't think your gun is big enough.

07-12-2009, 09:49 PM

And Ein, I don't think your gun is big enough.

Haven't seen it yet (the episode that is), but going by that she's hauling around that six shot .44 Mag of hers? Dirty Harry would be proud. Come to think, that's probably one of my biggest beefs about the show/game in general that Reiji's principal use handgun is a 9mm Beretta. I only know a bit about guns but enough to know that very few people like the Beretta. The Sig he gave to Cal is a way cooler gun. The CIA uses them.

Fencedude

07-12-2009, 10:00 PM

something

07-13-2009, 02:03 AM

Episode 15:

- I wonder how long Reiji will hide his revelation from Claudia.
- Watching Cal reassemble that gun makes me smile for some reason. Maybe it's just because everything Cal does makes me smile. This confirms she's good with machines though.
- Cal is so... so god damn hard to read. Helping someone plan a sniping operation? Hey sure why not? No big deal.
- She's entirely too good at this. And it still feels like she's just a natural prodigy whose mind works this way. And she smiles so happily when she gets it all right! :sd:
- Aww, they're on such a nice outing, like father and daughter or rather a sister and her older brother. Except they're investigating sniping locations.
- Oh this is a nice setup. Reiji and Cal on the counter-snipe, but who are they countering? It should be Elen sent by Scythe Master, but Weismel also sent his man out to do something. My guess is that Reiji will successfully counter-snipe Weismel's guy but Elen will still get the kill from a different location, and the aftermath will be quite messy.
- Wow, wasn't expecting it go down so quickly after I said that. Weismel's guy is indeed toast, and if it weren't for Cal Reiji would have missed it.
- We killed the mastermind! All is well! ::waits for a gunshot from a different direction::

Just as planned for that bastard Scythe Master. =( Although it wasn't to kill Godou, just stir things up in the worst way.

But you did well Cal! You're a good girl Cal! I love you Cal! Don't be discouraged Cal!

One ep a week isn't enough, blargh.

HitokiriShadow

07-16-2009, 12:54 AM

Cal's awesomeness continues. And she gets an adorable new outfit.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

07-16-2009, 01:35 PM

Just a heads up that Funimation has finally caught up on the Video Portal.
They have up to episode 15 posted.

Sly05

07-16-2009, 03:22 PM

Well I guess Ein's comment at the end kills my hope that she was working independently.

Next ep looks like its another Cal focused one so I'm looking forward to it.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

07-18-2009, 02:39 PM

Well I guess Ein's comment at the end kills my hope that she was working independently.

Next ep looks like its another Cal focused one so I'm looking forward to it.

Well I'm finally caught up and I like Cal. She is cute and Reiji making her the new Phantom is interesting. I'm thrilled to see Ein back from the dead. Can't wait for next weeks. Hopefully Funimation will post episode 16 ASAP after its aired.

Fencedude

07-18-2009, 04:23 PM

Claudia finally ascends past Wisemel (after shooting him...), but Scythe Master is still plotting and manipulating Godoh.

Cal was, of course, awesomely awesome. The discussion between her and Reiji about what world to go to was very well done.

And next time...!!

something

07-18-2009, 05:26 PM

Episode 16:

- Claudia may be a horrible person but damn if she isn't brilliant at what she does. What a fantastic way to get out of that situation. She definitely took a risk, though. If it hadn't been Weismel's subordinate who was sniping, she'd be screwed. Granted, that's only half the truth. Weismel was just the manufactured threat, and Claudia doesn't seem to realize that all, and Reiji isn't telling her about Elen.
- I really hope we keep getting more of the Lizzie/Reiji dynamic before she's inevitably killed by Elen or whatever. They're so different together now as compared to the first arc.
- Ah, everything seems to have come to such a clean conclusion. Weismel dead, the money planted at his place, Godou group placated. Right? ...not so much.
- OH GOD CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL. "If it's fine with you I can help with your assassinations from now on!" Said in the cutest Sawashiro Miyuki voice possible. It's so disturbing, but so cute.
- Alright, no assassination, but she can be his maid! Ahahaahh! Maid costume Cal NOW! ...lol she's so miffed that she can't dress up. Cal you are the best~~
- Things are going entirely too well for Claudia. Her fall is going to be hard, and really ugly.
- Haid headband and cat ears! OH NO YOU DIDN'T. ::dies:: But... really now, Reiji has only managed to put off the question of Cal's relationship to Inferno, not solve it. And they'll never let her go after she's gotten so intimately familiar with their Phantom.
- <3 eyecatch <3
- She bought the puppet from the eyecatch! XD
- They're doing a very good job with Reiji and Cal's relationship. She's happy to be with him, he's at ease when he's with her. But he also knows that the longer he keeps her around, the deeper she'll be dragged into his world. Should he really keep her around for his own satisfaction? But how to explain that all to her? I don't see any good answers.
- And Cal herself is still just beyond fascinating. Here is she is again, being her usual adorable self, while asking him once more to train her as an assassin. I just can not read who she truly is. She saw a man killed right in front of her in the sniper mission, but it doesn't seem to bother her at all. She seems to know exactly what being a hitman means. And yet her only motivation for wanting to do it so far (with Judy's killer allegedly dead) is to be useful to Reiji. It's like she gets it... but doesn't *get* it. Who are you, Cal?
- Yet at the same time, she seems to understand it better than Reiji does! Right now, in the shower, she's reading him in ways he's been unable to read himself.
- Wow... he admits that he wants to leave the world he's in and go to hers. She rewards him with full frontal. :sd: Cue horrible things happening in 3, 2, 1...
- Arrrrrrgh fucking Scythemaster. Always complicating things. =(

Well, next week those horrible things start happening. Man I am going to be so pissed if Cal bites it before the show is over. Seems like Elen is a much more likely sacrifice though.

07-18-2009, 06:55 PM

- I really hope we keep getting more of the Lizzie/Reiji dynamic before she's inevitably killed by Elen or whatever. They're so different together now as compared to the first arc.

This is one of the areas where I think the anime has dropped the ball a little bit. While it's obvious they work together, in the game it is made much more clear that they are partners who do most of their jobs together. The suspicion over Reiji's loyalties after his attempted escape with Elen is also resolved a bit more in depth in the game and Lizzie comes to trust Reiji completely. I can see why they wouldn't want to portray that so much here since it would come off as an unrealistic character developed after they sped up the sequence of events at the end of the previous story arc. When Cal comes into the picture Lizzie and Reiji are genuinely upset that they screwed up and had no option but to fabricate a lie that basically ends their partnership. This was also downplayed a lot in the anime.

I think the events with Cal have been very well done in the anime though. She really comes to life on the screen, her character in the game wasn't quite this interesting. My only beef is that they make Reiji seem a little more eager to keep her around and a bit less concerned with the consequences for her. In the game he is extremely reluctant to involve her in his world, only treating her to supper because he felt bad for her. Even then he had to be prodded a lot more by Cal and basically guilt tripped.

The anime has done some things really well, including some material that wasn't really touched upon much in the game. I'm finding, however, that a number of my favorite scenes just don't carry the same impact they did in the original. Like when Wisemel comes into Reiji's apartment in episode 14. In the game that scenes makes him a total badass. Wisemel threatens to search the place by force, and Reiji basically says to them "You know..... I'm Phantom. You'll be dead before you can draw your weapon." The intimidation gives him the upper hand in the situation. In the anime they make him look rash as though he is just blindly protecting Cal with no regard for the consequences and Wisemel seems like he is more in control.

something

07-18-2009, 07:08 PM

07-18-2009, 07:21 PM

I can certainly see that it must be skimmed over a bit in the anime, but I was actually complimenting the show when I mentioned them. I rather like how their dynamic has changed, especially with how they interacted over the Cal matter. As you said, it was all pretty brief, but from an anime-only perspective it seemed handled well for what appears to be an entirely secondary plot element.

Yeah, it's a bit hard to see it from an anime only perspective after being familiar with the source material. I don't necessarily think it was handled badly, just not quite as well as the original is all. I thought maybe people would be interested in some brief comparisons with the source material up to this point. :) The biggest shortcoming by far has been the scene after Reiji's capture while he was escaping with Elen. They make him appear completely controlled by Claudia. In the game that is not really how it goes down. I'm trusting my memory on this, but I recall Reiji was able to convince them that his actions were all part of a plot to draw out and expose Scythe. It was made more obvious in the game that Claudia suspected Scythe of plotting a betrayal as well. Reiji is able to turn the tables on them and gain the upper hand psychologically. In comparison Reiji blindly grasping to Claudia's suggestion that he can redeem himself by killing Scythe seemed very dumbed down and damaging to the depth of his character in the anime version.

Don't get me wrong I am really liking the anime, especially the scenes with Cal. It seems like they are just trying to make the key scenes of the plot different from the game just so they are different and the changes aren't better IMO.

Sly05

07-19-2009, 07:18 PM

Nekomimi Cal. Puppet Cal. Sneaking into bed during the middle of the night Cal. A lot to like in this episode. She even asks to become an assassin in the cutest way ever.

Claudia offing Wisemel like that was a surprise but hey, promotion for her. Too bad it was likely part of Scythemaster's plan and will delay his dieing.

Man I am going to be so pissed if Cal bites it before the show is over. Seems like Elen is a much more likely sacrifice though.

Yeah, if someone is going to die I'd rather it be anyone else (or even everyone else) but Cal.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

07-23-2009, 01:40 PM

Just caught this one and it was pretty good. The scenes with Reiji and Cal were sweet and that pig puppet is cute. On the flip side I have to say I'm not digging Ein's slightly longer hair. Claudia killing off Wisemel was a bit of a surprise tho'. Can't wait for next weeks.

Fencedude

07-25-2009, 06:42 PM

And everything comes unraveled.

And...CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLL

Sly05

07-25-2009, 09:05 PM

Since it didn't actually show Cal in the apartment, I'm going to assume she wasn't there (otherwise, boooo!!!).

HitokiriShadow

07-25-2009, 09:15 PM

Nekomimi Cal! And she finally gets the hand puppet she has in the eyecatch. So cute, so awesome.

Claudia continues to be maginificent in her ascent to power, though that trend will certainly come to an end very soon. I doubt things will go the way Scythe wants them to for long, but even if his plans get derailed, things will almost certainly start going badly for Claudia and her ambitions very soon.

The part where Reiji walked into her while she was standing naked in the shower was kind of odd. Normally that would either lead to the naked one screaming at the one that walked it or if they are intimate enough in their relationship, perhaps to sex. Maybe even both. But there was no embarrassed yelling here and while the end of that scene and the way it cut out might suggest something of erotic nature taking place, I really don't think it did, both because of the nature of their relationship and the scene after it had nothing to suggest it.

HitokiriShadow

07-25-2009, 09:43 PM

Yeah, things just went south very quickly for pretty much everyone other than Scythe. I was expecting the Godoh group to just try to kill Reiji after perhaps dropping a few interesting bits of information, but Scythe put quite a few machinations into play at once and things became rather complicated.

Oh man, I really do feel bad for Shiga and his Aniki. I fully expected him to kill him but it played out nicely.

I can't say I'm worried about Cal's safety. They didn't even try very hard to make it look like she was actually in the room at the time, and if people die in this series, we'll damn well know it. That said, I'm not expecting her to survive the series, though I really, really hope I'm wrong.

something

07-26-2009, 12:19 AM

Episode 17:

- Hah! I see the drip on the image and my mind immediately says "crying!", but it's just condensation from her glass. Claudia is a woman without tears.
- Heh I still can't get my head around Cal being an assassin. This is going to be fascinating to watch.
- Oh yeah, he was about to walk into a trap. I'd forgotten. :sd:
- Interesting. Godou is still terribly misinformed about who was behind the killing of his men, but the twist on the events of a year ago is pretty neat. Claudia did indeed mislead people then, but what Godou deduces from that about today is entirely manipulated by Scythemaster. DELICIOUS PLOT COMPLICATIONS!
- It's amazing that, as incredibly clever as Claudia is, the misundestandings that have grown up around her make her seem even more clever than she is. To her detriment..
- Oh wow, bye bye Godou group. But Shiga is still around, and he's been the most dangerous one from the start.
- Annnnnnd the reunion. Aww, she took the eyecatch slot this time.
- But hey, this is one way for Reiji to "quit". :sd: Run away with Cal! RUN AWAY!
- Yep. Bye bye Godou Daisuke. Shiga always was going to be the last one standing out of you lot, and now he's been reduced to Scythe's puppet.
- God damn this is a lot of build up for Reiji just entering his house to get Cal. I don't want to know what he's going to find.
- ...or the whole place could blow up three seconds after I unpause. BUT NO BODY = NO DEATH! There's just no way they'd kill Cal like this, so I'm not really worried either.

Well, that's one way to stick us with a cliffhanger. Guess I'll skip the next ep preview this time.

07-26-2009, 10:08 PM

After catching episode 16 again I have to say it is my favorite of the entire series so far. The interaction between Reiji and Cal in the apartment felt really genuine. They established a really good atmosphere there and it was the first time I felt the anime had done a better job on building such an atmopshere than the game.

This arc feels a tiny bit rushed all in all, aside from this particular episode. I think they want to really take their time with the final one which is understandable.

07-29-2009, 09:45 PM

Quick courtesy note for those of you who frequent danbooru and moe.imouto for the monthly megami scans: the Phantom scan for this month is rather spoilerish in nature.

Fencedude

07-29-2009, 09:50 PM

Quick courtesy note for those of you who frequent danbooru and moe.imouto for the monthly megami scans: the Phantom scan for this month is rather spoilerish in nature.

Haha oh wow.

Though you can barely even tell...

Edit: And the Queen's Blade one is hilarious. lol Aldra.

07-29-2009, 10:37 PM

It doesn't spoil enough to be really bad actually, but I could picture some people seeing that and wishing they hadn't for a little while longer.

Fencedude

07-29-2009, 10:59 PM

It doesn't spoil enough to be really bad actually, but I could picture some people seeing that and wishing they hadn't for a little while longer.

Most of the fanart is of that version anyway, though under a different name. I knew we were going there, but I didn't know how so.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

07-30-2009, 01:32 PM

Good episode although for some reason the video quality on this on it at Funimation's web site was not the best. I hope Cal was not in the apartment when it blew up.

Fencedude

07-30-2009, 01:38 PM

Good episode although for some reason the video quality on this on it at Funimation's web site was not the best. I hope Cal was not in the apartment when it blew up.

They seemed to go out of their way to imply that she wasn't.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

07-30-2009, 01:40 PM

something

08-05-2009, 07:26 PM

Episode 18:

- Heh, at least Reiji got some fairly quick revenge. The bombers exit the building seconds later and get shot almost immediately. Bad timing for them.
- Meanwhile Scythe Master is getting himself in good with the Inferno leader guy again. The fact that I can't remember his name reminds me that he's been... decidedly passive. For being the head of the organization, he's had an oddly minor role in this show.
- And the search for Claudia begins. She's driven out of her homes and sent into hiding, although she leaves a nice present behind for one of the groups of pursuers. Crafty bitch.
- She still seems confident she can keep control of Reiji though. I have a feeling she's in for a surprise. And where is my Cal, damnit?
- Blah blah Scythe/Elen stuff. They're getting kind of boring, honestly. Although I'm suddenly realizing what Scythe must be doing. He has Cal, and is going to brainwash her into his newest super soldier and send her after Reiji. Ugh, that would suck, so I hope I'm wrong. He's already half ruined Elen's character for me, so if he ruins Cal too I could sour on this show very quickly, even this close to the end.
- And the person who meets Claudia is... Lizzie? Should be fun to see how this goes down.
- Reiji heads over to the training facility for his showdown with Elen.
- Lizzie and Claudia on a nice drive by the sea! ...yeah. I wonder if Claudia has realized yet that while half of the reason they're after her is based on truth, half is just Scythe Master's concotion? Or maybe she realizes it and knows it doesn't matter because she can't disprove it.
- Elen gets appropriate Reiji-hunting attire...
- And Claudia skips barefoot through the sand, while Lizzie follows her looking miserable, then takes her out execution style. :sd:
- I guess I'm a bit unsure what Claudia meant with her call to Reiji. Did she give him the wrong place so he wouldn't show up, or did she expect him to come and got Lizzie instead? I couldn't quite read her reaction. And what's in that case she was carrying around? The items related to Reiji's life in Japan, maybe?
- Reiji and Elen get their knife fight on, but Reiji pretty much throws in the towel, pulls off Elen's mask, and tells her that he neither can win nor wants to win. Even if he did win, he has nothing left.
- She responds by taking her shirt off. Anyway, her explanation was a really hard sell at first. "I'm living only because you're living" is nice and all, but again, why does that require serving under Scythe again for so long? Maybe she thought it was the only way she'd see him again. But we end this scene with them making up and agreeing to run away to Mexico together, which leaves Scythe not too terribly concerned.
- Meanwhile, where the fuck is Cal? I'm going to be highly irked if my guess from earlier is right. I do wonder if they'll end this episode without even hinting at where she is, though...
- ...Apparently so! For a moment I thought the gun and watch at the ruins of Reiji's apartment were from Cal, but... I guess it'd make more sense for them to be from Reiji and Elen? On the other hand I don't remember who was in possession of the watch last, and if it was Cal then there's our sign.

Good episode, but once again I'm worried about where the show is headed. And if it goes the way I don't want it to, I'm not sure it'll have time to recover like it did after the climax of the first part.

...Oh, LAWLPREVIEW.

Fencedude

08-05-2009, 07:56 PM

Well that was fun!

and yeah LOLPREVIEW

Orihimes_Boyfriend

08-05-2009, 08:34 PM

Man you guys have me on pins and needles. Can't wait to see it tomorrow on the Funni site.

Sly05

08-05-2009, 10:03 PM

- Heh, at least Reiji got some fairly quick revenge. The bombers exit the building seconds later and get shot almost immediately. Bad timing for them.
I found it odd that they didn't leave the building before the bomb went off. If I knew the building I was in was about to blow up, I sure would have. Reiji taking out the guy driving away with a single shot was cool though.

He has Cal, and is going to brainwash her into his newest super soldier and send her after Reiji. Ugh, that would suck, so I hope I'm wrong. He's already half ruined Elen's character for me, so if he ruins Cal too I could sour on this show very quickly, even this close to the end.
That's my guess on how things will turn out as well. I really hope that bastard doesn't do his disturbing puppet rape thing to her as well. Things aren't looking to end well for Cal, unfortunately. Poor Cal.

- And Claudia skips barefoot through the sand, while Lizzie follows her looking miserable, then takes her out execution style. :sd:
I thought this scene was really well done. I never liked Claudia, but it really drove home how difficult it was for Lizzie to have to kill her best friend. The choice of music was also excellent.

Anyway, her explanation was a really hard sell at first. "I'm living only because you're living" is nice and all, but again, why does that require serving under Scythe again for so long?
Yeah, that takes a big suspension of disbelief there. If she hadn't been brainwashed, why was she actively trying to mess things up for Reiji? It's not like it would have been hard to kill Scythe and meet up with him on her own once she found out were he was.

Phantom continues to be one of the best of the current crop of series. I'm still hoping for Cal to get some sort of a happy ending and actually make it through the series even if that is becoming increasingly unlikely. Yeah, the preview.

something

08-05-2009, 11:05 PM

Yeah, that takes a big suspension of disbelief there. If she hadn't been brainwashed, why was she actively trying to mess things up for Reiji? It's not like it would have been hard to kill Scythe and meet up with him on her own once she found out were he was.
And not only that, killing Scythe before he could join up with Inferno again (and presumably hijack Cal...) and obtain the allegiance of the Godou group would have made things so much easier. I mean, yes, I could analyze/rationalize Elen's actions here if I felt inclined to try hard enough, but eh, it is what it is, and now she's left Scythe and that's what matters. Hopefully Reiji is able to make it out of this with at least one lover intact. Though the fact that he has expressed love for them both (I took his feelings for Cal as more than a brother/sister relationship) pretty much guarantees one will be "removed" by the story before the end. At least I genuinely don't know which one it'll be. That will make for some exciting watching.

I do think Saki has passed Phantom for me with this week, though. Phantom remains a very respectable #4 of Spring, however.

Fencedude

08-05-2009, 11:08 PM

something

08-05-2009, 11:10 PM

Also they should get married and adopt Cal. Problem solved!
I guess that depends on how Elen feels about incest threesomes.

OH NO PHANTOM IS A HAREM ANIME.

Fencedude

08-05-2009, 11:11 PM

Also they should get married and adopt Cal. Problem solved!
I guess that depends on how Elen feels about incest threesomes.

OH NO PHANTOM IS A HAREM ANIME.

Oddly, I first encountered Phantom via a parody image involving Kiminozo.

08-06-2009, 12:19 AM

The fact that I can't remember his name reminds me that he's been... decidedly passive.
Mr. McGwire. He is depicted as more firmly in control of things in the game, though not by much. His character is a mandatory one, but not an important one to the story I guess you could say.

Everything else you wrote about...... I cannot comment on due to foreknowledge. Which is a shame because they are excellent observations.

08-06-2009, 12:22 AM

If she hadn't been brainwashed, why was she actively trying to mess things up for Reiji? It's not like it would have been hard to kill Scythe and meet up with him on her own once she found out were he was.

Considering it from Ein's point she is split between two worlds. Years of conditioning has made her incredibly loyal to Scythe, but in a short period of time Reiji made a lasting impression on her. She doesn't want to betray either one really, but there is a significant disadvantage in her causing trouble for Scythe as well until the moment is right. Why risk being hunted by two organizations?

I don't think she really hinders Reiji all that much to be honest. She knows the events that unfold will eventually cause him to be on the run from Inferno regardless. If anything she helped him more than got in his way, and she certainly could have killed him more than once and didn't so her feelings are still there.

HitokiriShadow

08-06-2009, 01:08 AM

Well, that was an interesting conclusion to act 2.

While the conclusion to the Reiji and Elen fight wasn't surprising, I was expecting them to seriously fight each other for a little while. But they ended up not fighting much at all.

It looks like Reiji and Elen will have to deal with several of Scythe's other "creations" in the final act. I imagine Cal will be one of them. :(

They seem to have killed off Claudia, which was a bit of a surprise. With the way they framed that shot, its quite possible she didn't actually die and she's not actually in that grave Lizzie was standing at... but its also the kind of scene that generally does imply actual death. Hard to say on this one, but I'm going to assume she's actually dead. Part of me wants to see a twist in which she isn't actually dead, but part of me doesn't and I'm not really expecting it. It's a shame though, because while Cal is the best character, Claudia was by far the most interesting.

- I guess I'm a bit unsure what Claudia meant with her call to Reiji. Did she give him the wrong place so he wouldn't show up, or did she expect him to come and got Lizzie instead? I couldn't quite read her reaction.

I think she did tell him the place and was waiting for him, but resigned herself to her fate when she saw Lizzie.

Given what's being said about the preview, I guess I'll watch it... I'm not getting what's significant or noteworthy about the preview. Yeah, its Cal-centric but we all knew she had to be alive and would be showing up again and nothing the preview showed of her was anything noteworthy. The only slightly odd part about it was the shot of Scythe and Ein in an otherwise completely Cal focused preview.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

08-06-2009, 01:37 PM

Well that was a powerful episode. It was sad to see Claudia get killed off if that is what happened. There were two graves in front of Lizzie (one of course being Romaro's)so that tells me it might be so. Of course they could have found a way to fake her death. I can't wait to see how Reiji and Eren fair in Mexico. The whole time I thought its possible that Inferno might be holding Cal hostage or something butafter seeing the preview for next week I'm not so shure.
The fight between Reiji and Eren was beautify animated and the scene with the other "Phantoms in the making" was kinda creepy.

Fencedude

08-06-2009, 02:11 PM

While in Mexico they need to go to an Amigo Tacos!

Tacos Tacos Tacos...

Orihimes_Boyfriend

08-06-2009, 02:20 PM

While in Mexico they need to go to an Amigo Tacos!

Tacos Tacos Tacos...
LOL. I'm sure there will be lots of Tequila consumption. Would love to see what Ein is like when she is drunk.

something

08-07-2009, 05:42 PM

Given what's being said about the preview, I guess I'll watch it...
The spoiler tagging is more a joke than anything else. I just found it a bit funny that they don't do a damn with her for the whole episode and then suddenly she's just in the preview, waaaaaaay blatantly. I had thought they'd lead us on a little linger, even if it was totally obvious she was alive.

And I have no idea why I'm still tagging this. :sd:

something

08-07-2009, 05:43 PM

While in Mexico they need to go to an Amigo Tacos!
Tacos Tacos Tacos...
Cal and Ellis together would be INCREDIBLY AMAZING.

HitokiriShadow

08-07-2009, 06:04 PM

ArcticMech

08-07-2009, 09:41 PM

Kinda of a roundabout way to get to this point in their relationship for Elen and Reiji. I suppose if it didn't happen this way, Cal wouldn't have been introduced and we wouldn't have had this beautifully touching reunion that was more of an outpouring of love than an actual fight.

Will be interesting to see how Cal responds to the perceived abandonment by Reiji. Also looking forward to the inevitable battle between the, for lack of a better term, mass production Phantoms and Elen/Reiji.

I guess fake Mexican passports would be easier to manufacture/obtain than fake US ones. Either way, they both get you South of the Border.

RIP Clo. You were one hell of a lady.

Fencedude

08-07-2009, 09:44 PM

ArcticMech

08-07-2009, 09:59 PM

Am I the only one who thinks that Mexico is just a stop along the way?

I think they're going to Japan, personally.

Had not given it much thought until you brought it up. But Japan makes a ton of sense given how prominent the Godoh Group has been in the story up until now. Also don't think they introduced Mio for nothing. And of course, that's where Reiji is from. An interesting number of possibilities would open up by moving the setting to Japan.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

08-08-2009, 12:53 PM

Am I the only one who thinks that Mexico is just a stop along the way?

I think they're going to Japan, personally.
That's a strong possibility. By the time its all said and done they could go all around the world. If they stay on the run. However I'm sure Inferno has contacts and men in Mexico.

something

08-09-2009, 07:02 PM

Episode 19:

- Flashback - Judy's murder. And then to when Reiji arrived to collect information and ran into Cal. And some more scene afte that. Please don't be another quasi-recap episode.
- It does clearly remind us of something that was significant earlier on but seemed to be forgotten. Cal had asked Reiji to kill everyone involved in Judy's murder, even the people who were there to make the deal. That would include, of course, Reiji himself. Yet more evidence that Scythe will be able to turn Cal into his puppet. All he needs to do is dangle that in front of her and her sadness at being left behind will turn into rage at being deceived and... arrrrrgh. I really do not want to be right but I just can't see it playing out any other way.
- I think there's a tiny bit of new material in here, but argh, stop the recap!
- Well at least we get apron Cal. And she made Reiji's bathroom scary...
- Eight minutes, still recapping. I'm getting pissed.
- And at nine minutes, I think we finally stop wasting the episode. It's still something that would have happened in the past, but it's new - it shows that Scythe is, no surprise, very much aware of Cal back then and planning to use her. Sigh.
- Nope. More recap! ::starts skipping through the episode::
- At 19 minutes we get something worthwhile finally, that being the moments before the explosion when Cal is fixing the VCR or whatever. As expected, she leaves the apartment go to to the video store before the apartment is bombed.
- She hears the explosion and runs over thinking Reiji is dead (the way this is all set up makes it look like she missed him by mere minutes). Even when she realizes he couldn't have been inside, she's pretty depressed that he hasn't come back for her yet. And you know, did it really not occur to Reiji to get confirmation that Cal was dead? I know he was sort of, well, preoccupied, but isn't this something kinda important? And boy will she be pissed when Scythe hands over pictures of Reiji running around Mexico with another woman.
- And as Cal cries in the rain, no surprise, in comes Scythe to get his douchebag on.

Ugh. There's villains that are fun to hate, and then there's villains that you hate so much the show suffers. Phantom is a case of the latter.

08-09-2009, 07:51 PM

Once again there is so much I'd like to respond to from a variety of people, but I really can't. I'm so glad I don't normally have any knowledge of the game or manga an anime is based on because it's torture to read people's guesses and opinions and not be able to say anything.

About the only thing I can comment on is this: two recap episodes Bee Train? Why not forego that and make it a 24 episode show instead of 26?

Sly05

08-09-2009, 09:56 PM

- And as Cal cries in the rain, no surprise, in comes Scythe to get his douchebag on.

Boo!

Way to drop the ball on that Reiji. Given his line of work, you'd think he'd have told Cal to meet up with him at some secret location if things ever went south and they got seperated. That or at least check the news to see if the body of a little girl was recovered from the apartment. I really hope Cal makes it through the series alive.

HitokiriShadow

08-10-2009, 09:47 PM

It was mostly a recap episode, but it was also mostly Cal and they had just barely enough new scenes sprinkled in to make it worthwhile. I wish they didn't resort to a recap episode, but I found this episode much more tolerable than I usually would, mainly because it was so Cal-centric. It was a very annoying place to end though, since it wasn't exactly a surprise that Scythe was going to take in Cal.

Fencedude

08-11-2009, 01:44 AM

BLARGH

Though the preview is LOL.

Can't wait to see that!

Orihimes_Boyfriend

08-13-2009, 01:33 PM

BLARGH

Though the preview is LOL.

Can't wait to see that!
Well for the most part that was a complete waste of time. It was good to finally see that Cal was not near the apartment when it blew up. Looks like she may have been taken in by Scythe Master. Can't wait for next week it looks good. I just hope were done with the recap episodes.

ArcticMech

08-13-2009, 10:15 PM

Though the preview is LOL.

Can't wait to see that!

Definitely the best part of a mostly recap filled episode. Good call on the story moving to Japan. Didn't take long at all, though I wonder how much time would have elapsed since Reiji and Elen ran away together. Elen in sailor school uni is too much, in a good way. Damn, that Scythe Master. Not looking forward to find out what he's manipulated Cal into doing/becoming.

Suwako Moriya

08-15-2009, 05:44 AM

Ah, so we have a case of one step forward followed by ten steps backward. I should have figured that would be the case.

(Yeah, I figure now would be a good time to start catching up a bit with the series. Not sure if I'll comment on every episode though)

Westlo

08-15-2009, 06:29 AM

Holy fuck Cal grew up nicely, nice entrance at the end of that episode. New OP and EDs are meh apart from the Cal goodness.

Suwako Moriya

08-15-2009, 12:20 PM

I take it Scythe's ultimate plan is to bring the entire world into submission by threatening it with recaps?

Cal definitely added value to the series, but now I'm afraid she's destined to become yet another puppet character. That kind of worries me.

Ah, well, at least I've mostly caught up with the series. Being one episode behind is better than being ten behind.

In any case, the preview was definitely nice to see.

Fencedude

08-21-2009, 11:21 PM

LOL WUT

That OP...its...horrible! But hilarious!

And seriously, two years later, and they're in HIGH SCHOOL?! What the fuck?!

And holy crap, what has Scythe Master been feeding Cal!?

08-22-2009, 12:29 AM

I haven't seen the episode yet, but I take it they moved the setting to Japan in this episode? I'm looking forward to reading reactions on the final few episodes.

Fencedude

08-22-2009, 12:48 AM

I haven't seen the episode yet, but I take it they moved the setting to Japan in this episode? I'm looking forward to reading reactions on the final few episodes.

The first half of the episode was like "I'm I watching the right show?"

Also, the girl's uniforms were very...non-uniform.

ArcticMech

08-22-2009, 04:16 AM

And holy crap, what has Scythe Master been feeding Cal!?

Lots of hamburgers and some sort of accelerated aging elixir apparently. But seriously, WTF.

Orihimes_Boyfriend

08-22-2009, 01:18 PM

Well the only words that come to mind after seeing how this episode ended HOLLY CRAP THAT'S CAL???!!!!!! :eek: I thought she was Claudia at first.
That was a great episode. I love the new closing animation with the new song. The new OP is meh. It made me feel that they were taking the show in a comedic direction.

Fencedude

08-22-2009, 07:53 PM

We see Cal/Drei taking out some Chinese Mafia, and being very...unsubtle about it. She's got some slick moves though. Also dead sexy in that biker outfit.

Reiji has a talk with Scythe Master, and Elen and Cal face off...

Edit: Oh yeah, and now we know why Sawashiro Miyuki was cast as Cal. Delicious, delicious craziness!

something

08-22-2009, 08:08 PM

Episode 20:

- Let's all hope there are no more time skips in this show, because apparently that = recap eps.
- Also, high school? Honestly? Just how old are Reiji and Elen suppoed to be? There's no way they should be able to pass for
high schoolers, especially not two frickin years later! This has to be a dream or something.
- Wow, song is obnoxious. But the animation is pretty hilarious.
- Haha, is it bad that I knew Mio was Koshimizu Ami as soon as she first breathed?
- Oh god, Elen is pretending to be his little sister.
- Given everything that has gone on in this show so far, I'm still having a hard time being sure the emotions they're showing are real. This... this is Elen?
- Heh, Sanae is a riot. Can we just pretend nothing else happened and make this the show from now on?
- Also, why does everyone in this school wear a different uniform!?
- "Give me some pocket money!" I keep waiting for Reiji and Elen to pull off their virtual reality goggles and reveal this is all training for a mission.
- Another thing I'm finding hard to buy: Elen wasn't supposed to be Japanese, was she? They haven't stated her background but for her to be acting as his sister, well... I guess she could be "adopted".
- OHHHHHHHHHH. Right. Mio is... that Mio. Hilariously, I had completely, utterly forgotten about this.
- I am shocked, just shocked to see Cal like this!! ...No, wait, not really, Megami are assholes and ran a spread of grown up Cal over three weeks ago. But seriously, yet more ridiculousness - Cal turned into that in TWO YEARS? TWO YEARS!? Instead of looking a good 5 years younger than Reiji, she suddenly looks about 5 years older. Meanwhile Reiji aged backwards a year or two.

Well that was all pretty amusing. They did, unfortunately, go for exactly the plot development I least wanted to see. But it was pretty obvious it was coming, unfortunately. But now I just need to hope they make the best of it.

Fencedude

08-22-2009, 08:14 PM

- I am shocked, just shocked to see Cal like this!! ...No, wait, not really, Megami are assholes and ran a spread of grown up Cal over three weeks ago. But seriously, yet more ridiculousness - Cal turned into that in TWO YEARS? TWO YEARS!? Instead of looking a good 5 years younger than Reiji, she suddenly looks about 5 years older. Meanwhile Reiji aged backwards a year or two.

Perhaps she's related to Yumiko. Or Inferno's been running growth hormones.

...yeah...

something

08-22-2009, 08:45 PM

Episode 21:

- I wonder how much Reiji told Elen about Cal. Seems like nothing.
- Yeah... Cal runing through a hail of bullets right here was more ridiculousness in one scene than Reiji and Elen have survived in the entire show. And she shoots an Inferno member for shits and giggles.
- If nothing else, this new Cal allows us to hear the inimitable Sawashiro Miyuki sound as deliciously sexy as she can.
- Oh god what is up with this ridiculous BGM? It's like porn music, complete with moaning.
- Hah, well, it's nice to see Cal treats Scythe like shit. Completely the opposite from Elen's slavish servitude. Of course, I have no doubt that Scythe will show that he's in complete control of everything anyway, because that's his gimmick.
- Reiji and Elen seem to be attending some sort of bizarre hybrid not-highschool but not-college educational institution. It's... well, it's almost as if someone took those silly "gakuen" places in visual novels ("Look, it's a high school but it's not, so it's okay to have sex with us!") and actually tried to turn it into something real. :sd: I assume the original visual novel pulled something similar at this stage. Although I don't know if it had any sexual content, if not then it didn't need to pretend.
- Also, Scythe is a bitch etc etc. At least he confirms he hasn't been doing anything horrible to Cal... superficially anyway. He's manipulated her emotions and cultivated her hatred and sadness, but I definitely can't see "Drei" putting up with his "naked gun oil play" :sd:
- Elen vs Cal. This could be epic but I imagine Reiji will jump in before it can fully play out.

Well. At the very least, Cal's path to becoming Phantom is to a degree a logical extension of her personality when younger. When Judy was killed, Cal's reaction was intense hatred of everyone involved in the event. But what kept her human was the sadness she felt, and her relationship with Reiji.

This time, Cal has the same feelings but Scythe has systematically leeched away the sadness, leaving only hatred. Nor does she have anyone like Reiji to rely on. In fact Scythe has undoubtedly told Cal that Reiji was involved in the transaction that got Judy killed, so instead of Reiji being a stabilizing force we do a 180 and he becomes a single point to focus all her hatred on.

There's no way both Cal and Elen make it out of this show alive, and Cal's chances of being the winner there are rapidly approaching zero.

Fencedude

08-22-2009, 08:47 PM

Episode 21:
- Yeah... Cal runing through a hail of bullets right here was more ridiculousness in one scene than Reiji and Elen have survived in the entire show. And she shoots an Inferno member for shits and giggles.

I was discussing this with someone else, and he pointed out that Cal seems to think she's in MADLAX, not Phantom.

I did like her trick with the tablecloth though.

HitokiriShadow

08-22-2009, 11:38 PM

Two years later? A time jump isn't surprising, but after seeing the pre-OP scene unfold, I had to go back and make sure I didn't misread it. Prior to this, Reiji already looked too old to be a high schooler, but now its two years later and he's going back to high school? And he actually looks ever so slightly younger than he did before.

Well, this should be interesting.... and then Phantom probably just set a new record for latest starting point for the second OP in a two cour series. I like the scenes they use in it, but the music is just... jesus christ, its awful. Leaving aside my ever increasing disgust for everything Ali Project, the music is just so totally not appropriate for what they were showing. Tossing in a the occasional people with guns or random symbols does not make scenes of everyday life mesh with Ali Project's style in the slightest, even if its vaguely appropriate for the series itself.

Someone mentioned before that they thought the Goto guy's cousin might be in some way significant in the remainder of the series. I figured she was just a one off side character in scene that helped show the more mundane and normal side of the Goto group characters and didn't really think much about her, but since the setting is apparently switching to a Japanese a highschool and I think I saw her in the OP, it looks like they were right.

"Mio", that was her name. And sure enough, she shows up right off that bat...

Ah, so Elen and Reiji are pretending to be siblings. I guess that makes some sense, though it allows situations like this.

Man, this is such a nice change for Elen. I thought she was just putting on an act at first, that her normal-ish personality was a facade in front of the other school kids, but she's continued on with it when it was just her and Reiji, so it looks like she's changed in the two years she's been away from Scythe. So now she finally has a personality, making her a far, far more likable character.

I'm really liking Sanae. She's not nearly as awesome as Cal, but she's a pretty fun character. "Okay Master, I'll get the hell out of your sight right away~!" ... Okay, she's not going to overtake Cal, but that gap is getting smaller very quickly.

Day~to. Man, screw the plot, can the rest of the series just be like this? Just have Cal waltz back in after shooting Scyth in the face and they can all live happily ever after. ... Well, that normal, assassin-free life didn't last long.

I guess Elen hadn't changed much after all. Maybe she was just putting on an act 24/7 in attempt to reclaim a normal life. Makes sense and I'm not that surprised, but I wanted that other Elen to be real so bad...

While the situations are quite a bit different, this stuff with Mio reminds me a bit of Black Lagoon: The Second Barrage.

She's referring to Scythe as "Master" again...

That's Cal?! Bullshit. I won't accept it.

Uh, ED's okay, I guess. At least it doesn't assault my eardrums or feel horribly out of place.

I really liked the episode until the thing with Cal at the end. Elen looks the same, Reiji looks like he lost a year, but Cal aged a good 8-10 years or so and has likely undergone a complete personality change. Unless she turns out to not actually be Cal (not likely, with what I'm reading from some other people), this may be a really big negative for the final arc.

HitokiriShadow

08-23-2009, 12:14 AM

That took Cal longer than 10 seconds.

Well, at least a little bit of Cal's old personality showed through. But my issue isn't really with her personality, though I do think they could have handled that aspect a bit better. A big change was to be expected, as much as I didn't want it to happen, though I was hoping they wouldn't go quite this far. The problem is almost entirely a character design issue. There's just no fucking way she aged that much in two years, especially when the two leads didn't age at all or aged slightly in the negative.

I'm not sure how old Cal actually was, but she looked about 12, so she was probably in the 12-14 age range. Now she looks like she's in her early 20s. Even if you age her down a bit for being an animated character, she can't be younger than 18. At best, she went from a young looking 14 year old to an older looking 18 year old, but she looks like she went from 12 to 22. In the span of two years.

This is causing a huge disconnect for me. The drastic changes in her character design make it very difficult for me to even think of "Drei" as being the same person as the Cal I knew. That really should not be happening and its interfering with my enjoyment of the series.

something

08-23-2009, 12:34 AM

I'm not sure how old Cal actually was, but she looked about 12, so she was probably in the 12-14 age range. Now she looks like she's in her early 20s. Even if you age her down a bit for being an animated character, she can't be younger than 18. At best, she went from a young looking 14 year old to an older looking 18 year old, but she looks like she went from 12 to 22. In the span of two years.
My guess at Cal's initial age was about 15, and I'd put Reiji at around 20. Still, even at 17 now, Cal is not going to look like that. Especially when Reiji looks exactly the same or slightly younger.

This is causing a huge disconnect for me. The drastic changes in her character design make it very difficult for me to even think of "Drei" as being the same person as the Cal I knew. That really should not be happening and its interfering with my enjoyment of the series.
I agree, somewhat. I know a lot of what they're going for is shock value, but it really is a problem when you've build up this absolutely fantastic character and then, from one episode to the next, introduce such an incredibly drastic change. And had all that growth (in various meanings of the word) occur off screen. I think I've just lowered my expectations for this series in general, in the sense that I'm not taking it as seriously as I did initially. I still think it's really good, but... ::shrugs:: It's just got a couple issues.

Does anyone know if the visual age differences seen after this jump are true to the original game? Was it as severe there, and if so, was it also "two years"?

Fencedude

08-23-2009, 12:37 AM

Does anyone know if the visual age differences seen after this jump are true to the original game? Was it as severe there, and if so, was it also "two years"?

Cal's current design, right down to the outfit she's wearing is straight from the game. Judging by this (http://safebooru.donmai.us/post/show/145629/) image, it looks like the change is pretty faithful to the game. Thats the only image I've seen of "Young" Cal from the game, there are a number of images of Drei on Danboo though.

HitokiriShadow

08-23-2009, 12:53 AM

My guess at Cal's initial age was about 15, and I'd put Reiji at around 20. Still, even at 17 now, Cal is not going to look like that. Especially when Reiji looks exactly the same or slightly younger.

15 seems reasonable for Cal's age before. I always thought she looked about 12 but figured she had to be a couple years older than she looked, so 14-15 sounds about right.

I think I've just lowered my expectations for this series in general, in the sense that I'm not taking it as seriously as I did initially. I still think it's really good, but... ::shrugs:: It's just got a couple issues.

I always had measured expectations for this series, I never expected it to reach Madlax and El Cazador's level and it never gave me reason to think it would. But it was always a solid and enjoyable series that I never had any major problems with and while I expected Cal to go through some major changes, particularly in her personality, I wasn't worried about what they were going to do with her (other than whether or not she would survive; but I like tragedy so while I wouldn't like seeing her die, it wouldn't necessarily be a negative for the series because I like the emotional punches like that) and didn't expect any problems to crop up in the last arc. So that was quite a shock to me and it wasn't a pleasant one.

It's a strange problem though because it doesn't affect the storyline in any way, its only affects my connection with Cal/Drei. So in some ways, its outside the series itself, in that area between the screen and myself. I'm still really liking how everything is playing out and mostly enjoying it, its just that it gets weird whenever Cal/Drei is on the screen. I'm hoping that part of the problem was watching the episodes back to back. Maybe by the time I watch episode 22 in 5~7 days, I'll be used to it. Because this hurts my connection with Cal, its going to be a bigger problem with the upcoming episodes and any emotional impact they try to invoke.

Fencedude

08-23-2009, 12:59 AM

I really like Drei's design, in a vacuum, but saying that Cal grew up like that in two years is particularly straining of disbelief.

That being said, I knew this was coming since the very first Phantom image I ever saw had Drei in it.

HitokiriShadow

08-23-2009, 01:07 AM

I really like Drei's design, in a vacuum, but saying that Cal grew up like that in two years is particularly straining of disbelief.

Yeah, the character design itself is fine ("really like" would be stretching it for me, though I am quite fond of her in this picture (http://safebooru.donmai.us/post/show/195424/bandaid-blonde_hair-blood-cal_devens-fingerless_gl)) and if Drei was a completely new character, I wouldn't have any problems with her at all. I also wouldn't have a problem if this was at least five years later and the rest of the cast also aged at least a little bit. Unfortunately, they seem to have gone out of their way to make her growth and new character design incredibly unbelievable.

Fencedude

08-23-2009, 01:13 AM

though I am quite fond of her in this picture (http://safebooru.donmai.us/post/show/195424/bandaid-blonde_hair-blood-cal_devens-fingerless_gl)

"What? Is there something on my face?"

regz91

08-23-2009, 01:55 AM

I'm not sure how old Cal actually was, but she looked about 12, so she was probably in the 12-14 age range. Now she looks like she's in her early 20s. Even if you age her down a bit for being an animated character, she can't be younger than 18. At best, she went from a young looking 14 year old to an older looking 18 year old, but she looks like she went from 12 to 22. In the span of two years.

Are you seriously suggesting that you've never seen a 16 year old who looked like Cal? I can think of several girls I knew in middle school who shot up around high school. Cal's age range (14-16) is a pretty strange time for girls where all sorts of stuff can happen. Not that I'm saying it's normal, but it does happen. Considering some of the other stuff the show has asked viewers to swallow, I am frankly astonished that so much attention is being paid to this little detail, and without getting too much into this, I might suggest that it says more about the viewers than it does about the show.

As for the other characters, the game suggested that Reiji was visiting America as a celebration for graduating from middle school, which would make him about 15 in the first chapter, 16 in the second, and 18 in the third. Elen is slightly younger. Reiji and Elen pretty much kept their old character designs - if they look younger in this arc, it's only because they ACT younger.

something

08-23-2009, 01:59 AM

Considering some of the other stuff the show has asked viewers to swallow, I am frankly astonished that so much attention is being paid to this little detail, and without getting too much into this, I might suggest that it says more about the viewers than it does about the show.
I'm astonished that you're astonished people are astonished. =P I mean, there is no way two years does that to anyone, ever. I can easily buy a 14-16 year old looking like original Cal. I an also buy (in anime, at least) a 16-18 year old looking like current Cal (lol ttgl Yoko). But what is very difficult to accept is the former and the latter being put forth as the same person. I also don't know how it can be considered a "little detail"...

Orihimes_Boyfriend

08-23-2009, 10:44 AM

I'm astonished that you're astonished people are astonished. =P I mean, there is no way two years does that to anyone, ever. I can easily buy a 14-16 year old looking like original Cal. I an also buy (in anime, at least) a 16-18 year old looking like current Cal (lol ttgl Yoko). But what is very difficult to accept is the former and the latter being put forth as the same person. I also don't know how it can be considered a "little detail"...
Yeah the Cal from 2 years prior is maybe 10-12 at the oldest. And now she appears to be around 16-17. Watching the closing credits closely it made me think there might be some type of genetic altering of some type. As far fetched as that sounds. Anyway in this episode they really seem to flush out Mio's cuteness. Especially in the snow. Also Cal's Phantom name is Drei. Is that 3 in German like Ein is one and Zewi is two?

Westlo

08-23-2009, 10:54 AM

ArcticMech

08-23-2009, 10:57 AM

Also Cal's Phantom name is Drei. Is that 3 in German like Ein is one and Zewi is two?

Bingo.

something

08-23-2009, 01:26 PM

Yeah the Cal from 2 years prior is maybe 10-12 at the oldest. And now she appears to be around 16-17.
Well, she was definitely older than 10-12 initially. She was far too street smart and capable and intelligent to be a 10 year old in that sort of environment. As subsequently noted, her canon age was supposed to be 14, and I had guessed 15, so close. At any rate, what's done is done. Let's see if I can reconnect to this Cal. I imagine she'll be dead soon anyway, so maybe there's no point.

ndm

08-24-2009, 06:43 AM

This is causing a huge disconnect for me. The drastic changes in her character design make it very difficult for me to even think of "Drei" as being the same person as the Cal I knew. That really should not be happening and its interfering with my enjoyment of the series.

Cal's new design causes me exactly the same problem. It's such a severe disconnect I actually stopped watching halfway through 21 to come here and see if I was the only one (obviously I'm not).

Actually, it's not so much her design as the idea that Ein and Zwei are back in high school. Trying to work out the timing of everything started to hurt my brain. If they had just shown Zwei (what's his name again? Ryuuji?) working in an office or something and just said it was five years instead of two I'd have an easier time accepting the changes in Cal, even though I kind of dislike Cal's new design in itself. She now looks like a Japanese person's fantasy image of a Westerner (tall, leggy, blonde, big boobs, low cut top) and nothing like the small, spunky girl I liked from before. Add to that her new super ability to stand in the middle of heavy machinegun fire without getting a scratch and I personally have lost a lot of interest in her character, not to mention in the show as a whole. As I said, I'm halfway through 21 and don't know if I even want to watch the rest, though I guess I will if only to see someone finally put a bullet in Scythe. I don't particularly like the direction this story has taken, which is a pity since I quite liked the second arc.

Kusaja

08-24-2009, 01:11 PM

Considering some of the other stuff the show has asked viewers to swallow, I am frankly astonished that so much attention is being paid to this little detail, and without getting too much into this, I might suggest that it says more about the viewers than it does about the show.

I agree and also find it more than a little surprising to see some complaining about the action being implausible now, when many of this show's fight sequences to date haven't exactly been too realistic, outside of some honorable exceptions.

I'll admit this isn't my favorite arc, but it's not too bad either and I like how it's actually subverting the assumed sanctity of your average anime high school setting. I can see some people disliking the change, at first, but the past is quickly coming back.

something

08-24-2009, 04:03 PM

and also find it more than a little surprising to see some complaining about the action being implausible now
That really wasn't the main complaint, although Cal storming the restaurant was the most ridiculous example of it so far. It's not just what she did, but moreso how it was animated. A much bigger issue is what a bunch of us are saying about feeling disconnected from Cal. And by extension, quite possibly this whole last arc. Not to mention I think most of us had come to like Cal much more than Elen, and then the story goes and seems to shift completely back to Elen being the one to focus on. Especially since Cal now has like a 95% chance of dying.

Kusaja

08-24-2009, 06:00 PM

That really wasn't the main complaint, although Cal storming the restaurant was the most ridiculous example of it so far. It's not just what she did, but moreso how it was animated.

I'm not saying it was...but even so, I don't think it's really worth nitpicking this so late in the show.

A much bigger issue is what a bunch of us are saying about feeling disconnected from Cal. And by extension, quite possibly this whole last arc. Not to mention I think most of us had come to like Cal much more than Elen, and then the story goes and seems to shift completely back to Elen being the one to focus on.

Unfortunately, there's probably nothing I could say that would alleviate this feeling either, at least not now.

I'd want to argue that a part of the disconnect is even intentional, to some extent, from the story's perspective...but taking it so far into negative territory because Cal has grown in an slightly unrealistic manner is where I find myself unable to relate to the reactions around here. Personally, I think this is well within the bounds of suspension of disbelief for a Japanese animated series.

Cal's not the same person...not because of her measurements, but as a result of the circumstances. I think people should try and look at the big picture, if they wish to move forward. The same thing goes for the shift in focus.

That doesn't mean liking everything, mind you, but trying to understand. Hopefully Bee Train helps this along, in any case.

something

08-24-2009, 06:09 PM

Cal's not the same person...not because of her measurements, but as a result of the circumstances. I think people should try and look at the big picture, if they wish to move forward. How will this end? That's for Bee Train to decide.
It'll be the show's job to give us a big picture, because I don't think we're ignoring it or anything. I even commented earlier on how I do see the theme of hatred Cal is going through as consistent with her earlier self... but there's still too much disconnect. They need to convince us that we should still care about this Cal, that she can still be a character instead of just a new antagonist. They've got a few episodes left to do it, and could well pull it off. But right now my fear is she'll been sacrificed on the altar of Reiji and Elen's new life. Not that I don't want them to be happy, not that I want either of them to die, but I like(d) Cal much more than either of them and care about her the most by far.

HitokiriShadow

08-24-2009, 06:17 PM

Cal's not the same person...not because of her measurements, but as a result of the circumstances. I think people should try and look at the big picture, if they wish to move forward. That doesn't mean liking everything, mind you, but at least trying to understand.

I understand that, and its why I accept the personality even if I wish they had kept a bit more of her old personality. But the disconnect the character design is causing isn't one that they should be trying to cause because of "hey, she's changed and is like a completely different person". Because they really, really should not be trying to make me not give a damn about the character (and when it feels like they swapped out the character with someone else, that's somewhat close to what I'm feeling), especially when an emotional investment in said character and the conflicts she's involved in are pretty central to the story right now. That I'm having trouble caring if the new Cal gets killed or not is a pretty big problem.

regz91

08-24-2009, 06:50 PM

I understand that, and its why I accept the personality even if I wish they had kept a bit more of her old personality. But the disconnect the character design is causing isn't one that they should be trying to cause because of "hey, she's changed and is like a completely different person". Because they really, really should not be trying to make me not give a damn about the character (and when it feels like they swapped out the character with someone else, that's somewhat close to what I'm feeling), especially when an emotional investment in said character and the conflicts she's involved in are pretty central to the story right now. That I'm having trouble caring if the new Cal gets killed or not is a pretty big problem.

On some level I'm just really amused by this. I've read a lot of reviews for Phantom over the years, in both English and Japanese. I've read a fair number that did not like the game. Not once have I ever read of someone for whom Cal's character design actually interfered with the story, until this past week, and even then only exclusively on this board. It raises a number of interesting questions about the behavior of online fandom that I'm only beginning to wrap my head around.

I'm genuinely curious about this. Have you ever, say, watched Megazone 23? What did you think of the character designs there? I'm really interested.

Fencedude

08-24-2009, 06:54 PM

I'm fascinated that people actually think that there is no major issue with Cal's design.

Kusaja

08-24-2009, 07:07 PM

It'll be the show's job to give us a big picture, because I don't think we're ignoring it or anything. I even commented earlier on how I do see the theme of hatred Cal is going through as consistent with her earlier self... but there's still too much disconnect. They need to convince us that we should still care about this Cal, that she can still be a character instead of just a new antagonist. They've got a few episodes left to do it, and could well pull it off. But right now my fear is she'll been sacrificed on the altar of Reiji and Elen's new life. Not that I don't want them to be happy, not that I want either of them to die, but I like(d) Cal much more than either of them and care about her the most by far.

I know that the main party responsible for presenting the big picture is ultimately Bee Train, but different viewers will also come out of the show with different interpretations and different levels of appreciation for the same material. That's what we're seeing.

Individual expectations, preferences and perspectives are all additional factors here. Those who care the most about Elen, for instance, are probably less concerned than Cal fans, but even among them some are more or less disconnected than others.

That's why I'm also hoping that Bee Train does come out and provide the audience with something that manages to sell more people on this turn of events and the way they've chosen to handle it, but it's true that not everyone is going to be happy, no matter what happens in the end. Strictly speaking, at this point everything is technically possible, including an entirely original ending.

There's a lot of tension up in the air and it's going to remain until the story chooses to take a specific path, but I do think it's possible for at least some viewers to re-examine the situation in the meanwhile. That's all I meant, in spite of my critical tone.

HitokiriShadow

08-24-2009, 07:38 PM

On some level I'm just really amused by this. I've read a lot of reviews for Phantom over the years, in both English and Japanese. I've read a fair number that did not like the game. Not once have I ever read of someone for whom Cal's character design actually interfered with the story, until this past week, and even then only exclusively on this board. It raises a number of interesting questions about the behavior of online fandom that I'm only beginning to wrap my head around.

I'd like to see more images from the game. It's hard to say much based on the little bit I've seen, particularly with the angles the used in the only shot I've seen of younger Cal and one of the two pictures I've seen of older Cal. What little I saw there though, I didn't really have a problem with. Something about it seemed more believable. Also, the big image I saw of older Cal was really, really nice.

I'm not really seeing what this has to say about "online fandom".

I'm genuinely curious about this. Have you ever, say, watched Megazone 23? What did you think of the character designs there? I'm really interested.

I've never seen it and I don't have any interest in seeing it. Did characters look like they aged 10 years in the span of 2 in that as well? Did one character age drastically while the others remained pretty much the same (or looked even younger)? And while also undergoing drastic personality changes?

regz91

08-24-2009, 08:37 PM

I'd like to see more images from the game. It's hard to say much based on the little bit I've seen, particularly with the angles the used in the only shot I've seen of younger Cal and one of the two pictures I've seen of older Cal. What little I saw there though, I didn't really have a problem with. Something about it seemed more believable. Also, the big image I saw of older Cal was really, really nice.

Can't help much there, except to point you in the direction of the official site (http://www.nitroplus.co.jp/pc/lineup/into_01/index.html). You can click around, there are different CGs and wallpapers and such on the different options. No real spoilers, especially since we're rapidly approaching the major split in the game and things you see around the site may not necessarily happen in the anime.

That said, I really don't think there's a difference between the game and the anime on this point.

I'm not really seeing what this has to say about "online fandom".

The nature of online fandom is a small hobbyhorse of mine. I'm particularly interested in why I haven't seen this reaction in Japanese reviews and boards, since I would have assumed that they would go even crazier over something like this.

(I'm sure part of it, at least for the anime, is just this incredibly lax approach the anime production staff has taken to spoilers, including plastering up a giant picture of Elen and Cal in the church, an event from this upcoming episode, up on the website back when the series just started airing. Not to mention this is a pretty iconic game with a dedicated fanbase for 10 years. It was basically impossible to be a Japanese viewer and not see this coming, which is very different from seeing it as it happened. But that can't explain all of it.)

Anyway, I've been wondering whether this is just a fluke, or if there are Japanese fans who feel this way and they've all somehow squirreled themselves away from the usual places (which would be intriguing all by itself), or if I need to do a complete rethink on my take on Japanese fans, or what.

I'm also curious why I only see this reaction on this board (and seriously, if you see other places that are like this, point me in that direction, I really wanna see). I can certainly understand (although I don't agree with) people who don't like what happened to Cal in general. But I'm really puzzled by the idea that Cal's whole new persona is broadly tolerable EXCEPT for her character design. And I just don't get the idea that growth like this could NEVER happen. It totally does! Not just in anime, but in real life!