Requiem of Phantom Streamed at FUNimation

[Chris Beveridge]

FUNimation Entertainment is partnering with Japanese production company Media Factory for the U.S. digital distribution of the 26-episode action anime “Requiem for the Phantom” which debuted on Japan&rsquo...

More... (http://www.mania.com/requiem-phantom-streamed-funimation_article_114592.html)

[Ty]

No mention of a home video license......

I hope they are streaming this in 720p because that is what it will really take to get people watching the official streams.

[Tofusensei]

Very very cool. Love the streaming movement.

But, leaking the video before it airs in Japan can be very dangerous for business.

Twitter updates from Funi:

"The newest ep. of Phantom (ep. 4) aired 4/23 Thursday at 2:15 am Tokyo time."
"Our streaming is happening after the Jap. broadcast. According to both TV Tokyo and Media Factory Phantom airs Th. at 2:15 am"

Except that it airs at 2:15AM on Friday so Funi leaked early. I know those TV schedules can be confusing, but come on, guys :D

[something]

I hope they are streaming this in 720p because that is what it will really take to get people watching the official streams.
More importantly, 720p streams that actually look like it, and play smoothly. I tried the "720p" stream of Saki on Crunchyroll and not only did it look terrible, it ran like a slideshow. And yet I can play much higher quality/better looking episodes just fine when downloaded (and have an internet connection more than fast enough, so that's not the bottleneck). Even the 480p Shangri-la wasn't as at all as smooth as it by all rights should have been, given the resolution.

Though there's also a lot Crunchyroll gets right, far more than I expected actually, so I have to give them some credit. Like a full screen that's actually full screen, without a bright, unhideable, intrusive menu/navigation bar at the bottom - how novel!

I haven't tried Funimation's player out, but I can only imagine it's not nearly as good a setup. I'll probably test it out briefly but I don't anticipate using it as a serious platform for viewing things.

All that said, I'm really liking just how many shows are getting legal streams this season. We're finally getting somewhere near where things need to be.

[Ty]

If you mean episode 1 of Saki that particular episode had unusual video problems. Somebody IVTC'ed it when they shouldn't have, hence the really nasty jaggies whenver there was lateral movement on the screen. From what I saw episode 2 didn't have this issue, but I agree with your sentiments on Crunchyroll video in general. Given how many homes still have limited bandwidth I can reasonably tolerate some minor issues. My beef with Crunchyroll has always been their roots and how they got to where they are. I want A streaming site to be successful, just not Crunchyroll. If Funimation can deliver a good experience it may as well be them. They have to understand, though, that so long as a person is getting their fix online people will generally pursue whatever provides the best viewing experience. Right now the legitimate streaming offerings can't claim to be the best experience. I hope they get there soon.

[something]

They have to understand, though, that so long as a person is getting their fix online people will generally pursue whatever provides the best viewing experience. Right now the legitimate streaming offerings can't claim to be the best experience. I hope they get there soon.
Entirely agreed, I go with whatever looks best, and will continue to do so regardless of where I get it from. Still, I signed up for a free trial of Crunchyroll's service, and I'm just going to let them start charging me the $7/mo or whatever it is when the trial expires. It's not because I like how CR started, but rather because I don't think that matters anymore. CR is doing a far better job of it than anyone else ever has, and because they have gone legit, I have no real issue supporting them. And honestly, I'd say their beginnings as a site for illegal streaming of fansubs has helped them figure out just what sort of format people like watching shows in. After all, legit companies were never ever going to "stamp out" fansubbing by force. They were simply going to have to take over doing the exact same thing, only legally. That's what this "legit CR" is doing unexpectedly well.

I highly doubt I'll actually use CR's offerings because of the low quality they offer, but I figure it's a way to support the idea of legal near simultaneous airing of an unexpectedly wide variety of brand new shows, at exactly the kind of pricing that I've been saying all along would be reasonable. Of course my support is also based on the assumption that a good percentage of the payment is going back to the original rights holders who partnered with CR to stream. And my assumption that they will continue to expand their library and continue to get fairly good coverage every new season.

With Funimation, I guess my take is different. Once they or any other established R1 company gets a show, I just think of the streaming as just marketing promotion before the DVDs hit, and pretty much ignore it. Because DVDs will very likely follow - though that could change. When Crunchyroll streams a show, I think of it differently, because they're not involved in releasing DVDs, and so it's not any closer to a "real" release than if nobody were streaming it at all.

Hard to explain... I just feel like CR is approaching it more broadly and more seriously (and successfully) than anyone else has. CR's approach feels like a system, a central viewing platform that many parties are flocking to. On the other hand, Funi or Bandai or Viz streaming some shows seemingly at random, spread across a number of different services (Hulu, Joost, CR, their own websites, Youtube, etc), most of which are not primarily focused on anime, doesn't have the same feeling of coherence. I'm willing to pay more attention to a more centralized, coherent system... and apparently even pay them some money, apparently. Even if I'm not really using the site. :sd:

Edit: All this said, streaming is never a substitute for DVDs, as we'd both agree. Streaming and downloading are for viewing, DVDs are for buying and owning (edit2: well and viewing again later, of course).

[TornadoTatsumaki]

So is it going to be a simulcast?

[Ty]

Of course my support is also based on the assumption that a good percentage of the payment is going back to the original rights holders who partnered with CR to stream.

This is my present beef with them, but it is only a logical assumption on my part. Businesses only change their models with one purpose in mind: the pursuit of greater profits. I think CR is making bank on their legit deals to the point where it benefits them more than their old models. The Japanese companies are desperate to bring attention to legal distribution methods now that they're aware of the problem so I wouldn't be surprised if they're only breaking even on the whole thing right now.

Of course this is outside the scope of discussing Phantom so I'll leave it at that, but basically my hope is that Funimation will eventually surpass Crunchyroll in the streaming sector because of their longstanding business ties with Japanese content providers. That is, if they actually get the streaming part of it right. 720p, 192kbps audio, windowless fullscreen mode. I don't care if it has to buffer for 5 minutes before playing to support the bitrates, if Funimation is willing to do this I would pay them to watch their streams in a near simulcast release scenario.

[something]

This is my present beef with them, but it is only a logical assumption on my part. Businesses only change their models with one purpose in mind: the pursuit of greater profits. I think CR is making bank on their legit deals to the point where it benefits them more than their old models.
Well, yeah, that's just business. And of course it helps the rights holders more to have a legal partner and make a little money than for the shows just be streamed illegally and make no money. If it's win-win, then fine by me.

but basically my hope is that Funimation will eventually surpass Crunchyroll in the streaming sector because of their longstanding business ties with Japanese content providers.
I guess that depends on whether Funimation wants to basically become two businesses - one that licenses shows with intent to get all the rights and both stream and sell DVDs as they're doing now, and another that becomes very specifically an online streaming platform like CR, not necessarily sharing the same end goals as the hybrid traditional/digital approach that defines them now.

It just seems like it's easier for CR to become that, because they don't need to worry about traditional licensing concepts - they can stream Shangri-la, but Funi can and almost certainly will still license and release it in R1, which is of no consequence to CR as they just do their own thing. For Funi to take over from CR, they would need to have the same sort of approach, in which case we could theoretically see Funi streaming a show and then Bandai licensing it normally for DVD. They'd also need to be willing to stream shows that other companies ahve already licensed. Like, creating a platform where Bandai could decide to stream Geass, like they're doing on CR. It seems like more of a leap to expect that sort of arrangement from a traditional R1 licensing company, but I suppose they could try it if they wanted to.

Again my concern having some sort of centralization. I don't want to have to have five memberships at various sites to cover most airing shows. I want to go to one place, and that's looking like CR right now.

That is, if they actually get the streaming part of it right. 720p, 192kbps audio, windowless fullscreen mode. I don't care if it has to buffer for 5 minutes before playing to support the bitrates, if Funimation is willing to do this I would pay them to watch their streams in a near simulcast release scenario.
I don't know about 5 minutes because I can often download an episode faster than that. =P But I get your point.

I'd still only pay if it were a CR model with a very low monthly fee to access a wide variety of shows though. I will not pay per episode because that adds up to the cost of buying the DVDs, pretty much. I'm essentially going to have bought Strike Witches twice over when Funi releases it and I have no desire to do that with more shows.

So I don't know what Funi has planned. If it turns out that they don't get DVD rights for Phantom, that'll say a lot. But for now, I'm assuming they're going to continue as they have been.

[The Great Bear]

That is, if they actually get the streaming part of it right. 720p, 192kbps audio, windowless fullscreen mode. I don't care if it has to buffer for 5 minutes before playing to support the bitrates, if Funimation is willing to do this I would pay them to watch their streams in a near simulcast release scenario.

That would be nice, but they're far from there yet. Right now, I'm trying wait for FMA: B 3 to buffer, and it looks like it might take, oh, an hour or so. Yes, it is a very popular show and so Funi's probably getting hit very hard with buffering requests, so it's going to be slow. But it doesn't do much for inspiring confidence in Funi's player. While CR may not be perfect, the streams there load up in under a minute often. I can take the occasional jittery pan, though I know people's mileage will vary greatly there.

Perhaps Phantom will not be as popular and not result in 3 hour waits to buffer. But if it is very popular…it will be yet another show where I'll have to find something else to do while waiting for the damn thing to become watchable.

…

EDIT: As for FMA: B, try more like 2 hours to buffer (it's only about halfway done :relief:). If Funimation is serious about streaming more shows from Japan, they'd better first get their infrastructure ready to handle delivering it better.

[Ty]

That would be nice, but they're far from there yet. Right now, I'm trying wait for FMA: B 3 to buffer, and it looks like it might take, oh, an hour or so. Yes, it is a very popular show and so Funi's probably getting hit very hard with buffering requests, so it's going to be slow. But it doesn't do much for inspiring confidence in Funi's player. While CR may not be perfect, the streams there load up in under a minute often. I can take the occasional jittery pan, though I know people's mileage will vary greatly there.

That's discouraging. To be fair I can't condemn CR's service. The free h.264 streams I've watched there cache in their entirety within the blink of an eye. It definitely seems like the bottleneck is on my end and not theirs, but then again I don't hop on and watch within hours of the release of content there either. I'm still working out streaming episodes into my viewing habits.

[Ty]

I'd still only pay if it were a CR model with a very low monthly fee to access a wide variety of shows though. I will not pay per episode because that adds up to the cost of buying the DVDs, pretty much. I'm essentially going to have bought Strike Witches twice over when Funi releases it and I have no desire to do that with more shows.

I also appreciate the monthly fee model vs. paying per episode. I would want to OWN the episode if I paid to watch each one and I should've clarified that earlier. Considering how many ways there are to stream PC content to your living room tv it is becoming less and less of an issue all the time having content "trapped" on your computer, but none of them achieve the quality levels I want right now so I still consider it a hurdle.

[something]

That's discouraging. To be fair I can't condemn CR's service. The free h.264 streams I've watched there cache in their entirety within the blink of an eye. It definitely seems like the bottleneck is on my end and not theirs, but then again I don't hop on and watch within hours of the release of content there either. I'm still working out streaming episodes into my viewing habits.
Urgggh, I just tried out Phantom for shits and giggles and I'm stuck in buffering hell.

Start ep
::buffering, buffering::
Some logo
::buffering, buffering::
Funi logo
::buffering, buffering::
Half the Phantom title screen
::buffering, buffering::
Title screen finishes, ep starts, two lines spoken
::buffering, buffering::
Wait 2 minutes while making this post, go back, watch ~20 seconds
::buffering, buffering::
Repeat this a few more times before giving up

[The Great Bear]

Urgggh, I just tried out Phantom for shits and giggles and I'm stuck in buffering hell.


Welcome to the FUNi Player :)

All of our bandwidth is busy. Why don't you just hit pause, go do something else for three hours, and then return to watch your video, long after you've lost interest in seeing the show, and have probably already completed that Final Fantasy sidequest that has been nagging you for months.

Have a Nice Day :)

[Classical]

Welcome to the FUNi Player :)

All of our bandwidth is busy. Why don't you just hit pause, go do something else for three hours, and then return to watch your video, long after you've lost interest in seeing the show, and have probably already completed that Final Fantasy sidequest that has been nagging you for months.

Have a Nice Day :)

You know, oddly enough, I actually did something sort of similar to that. :sweat: Though I haven't lost interest in the show. I'm trying to watch episode 2 of Phantom and it's taking days for the video to load up.

I wonder if it's a good idea for FUNimation to premiere episodes of FMA: B, and Phantom both on the same day. The bandwidth was getting hit bad enough with FMA: B, but I think things might get worse now with Phantom streaming on the site on the same day as well.

[MeggieMay]

Start ep
::buffering, buffering::
Some logo
::buffering, buffering::
Funi logo
::buffering, buffering::
Half the Phantom title screen
::buffering, buffering::
Title screen finishes, ep starts, two lines spoken
::buffering, buffering::
Wait 2 minutes while making this post, go back, watch ~20 seconds
::buffering, buffering::
Repeat this a few more times before giving up

Yeah, that's Funimations servers for you (they're not not the only company streaming online with these problems by any means, FWIW ) :laugh: .

The way I deal with it is to start whatever it is I'm trying to watch, let it run through a bit of logo and then hit pause. Then go do something else for a few hours while it buffers the entire show. Then come back and watch it :devil: . I'm also not going to attempt either FMA 2 or this show until maybe tomorrow, so that the severs have some time to recover because I'm tired of the long waits I've been having with FMA 2 the last two weeks :-/ .

[aquastar831]

When I did watch ep 2 of FMA: B last week, I didn't run into a buffering problem and this was on Thurs. afternoon.

I'm glad that Funi grabbed another title w/ online distribution/streaming rights in the package already. I'm sure this is just a matter of trying to effectively address these issues that people are making note of, since I'm sure their servers are taking a heavy hit with people wanting to access the episodes.

I'd say give it some time since this is something that they really haven't done before, with FMA:B and Phantom being their first series that they've streamed this quickly after broadcast. (If you're not counting Shikabane Hime)

Anyways, yay to Funimation! Again, I hope you guys pick up more titles soon w/ the streaming rights included. Because it also most likely means less lag time for making it to DVD releases in the US.

[MeggieMay]

Aquastar, what time in the afternoon are you viewing the streams? If we're talking 3 or 4PM ET, then I wouldn't be surprised if the servers are still doing OK. That's before most K-12 Grade schools get out for the afternoon, as well as the bulk of people with jobs who get off at 5PM also get off and go home. Keep in mind as the day wears on these groups of potential viewers start to double as School and jobs let out in Central, Mountain and Pacific. I would think the Internet is a lot more busy right now (8PM CT) in North America than it is four hours earlier and that is why I'm thinking part of my problem is I'm getting caught in the upswing of people trying to view stuff online that I wouldn't be if I can wait a few hours/days and try again.

[Fencedude]

Aquastar, what time in the afternoon are you viewing the streams? If we're talking 3 or 4PM ET, then I wouldn't be surprised if the servers are still doing OK. That's before most K-12 Grade schools get out for the afternoon, as well as the bulk of people with jobs who get off at 5PM also get off and go home. Keep in mind as the day wears on these groups of potential viewers start to double as School and jobs let out in Central, Mountain and Pacific. I would think the Internet is a lot more busy right now (8PM CT) in North America than it is four hours earlier and that is why I'm thinking part of my problem is I'm getting caught in the upswing of people trying to view stuff online that I wouldn't be if I can wait a few hours/days and try again.

Exactly. You need to watch streams at off hours.

Like 3 am.

[Ty]

Exactly. You need to watch streams at off hours.

Like 3 am.

I suppose it is hard to accurately gauge how much demand there will be for something new like this, but with their servers overwhelmed already I hope they get a clue and invest in more outgoing bandwidth. Crappy service isn't going to help sell their new ideas.

[Zeether]

Urgggh, I just tried out Phantom for shits and giggles and I'm stuck in buffering hell.


Welcome to the FUNi Player :)

All of our bandwidth is busy. Why don't you just hit pause, go do something else for three hours, and then return to watch your video, long after you've lost interest in seeing the show, and have probably already completed that Final Fantasy sidequest that has been nagging you for months.

Have a Nice Day :)
Great humor there.

[hikaru004]

Well hopefully they can get more servers or just put it on hulu and Joost who can absorb the load without problems. They could also add Veoh. The expectation is to see the episode on release day without problems during peak hours.

[something]

I suppose it is hard to accurately gauge how much demand there will be for something new like this, but with their servers overwhelmed already I hope they get a clue and invest in more outgoing bandwidth. Crappy service isn't going to help sell their new ideas.
Agreed. "Oh they're still new at this" or "oh just watch at off-peak hours" are excuses, not solutions. If they can't handle the load, they need to beef up their systems, and do it asap. When it takes me many times longer to load a low quality stream than to download an episode, they're doing it wrong.

[hikaru004]

Exactly. You need to watch streams at off hours.

Like 3 am.

I suppose it is hard to accurately gauge how much demand there will be for something new like this, but with their servers overwhelmed already I hope they get a clue and invest in more outgoing bandwidth. Crappy service isn't going to help sell their new ideas.

But they should have had an ideal from what the fansub downloads for Phantom are like. I mean this one had 5 groups attached. FMA is still the grandaddy this season for groups attached. They should have went with hulu and Joost also especially if they intend to add another title this season.

[MeggieMay]

3AM is not going to work for someone who has to be at work by 8AM :P

That said, they do need to get more bandwidth/severs and I think they know it as much as we do. My guess is it is just taking time to get it all set up. Until then everyone is just going to have to work with the situation (and at least it works, even if it's slow - unlike another Texas companies site that use to go up and down all the time and had a player that would kill Firefox on the spot :anger200: )

[bayoab]

I suppose it is hard to accurately gauge how much demand there will be for something new like this, but with their servers overwhelmed already I hope they get a clue and invest in more outgoing bandwidth. Crappy service isn't going to help sell their new ideas.
Agreed. "Oh they're still new at this" or "oh just watch at off-peak hours" are excuses, not solutions. If they can't handle the load, they need to beef up their systems, and do it asap. When it takes me many times longer to load a low quality stream than to download an episode, they're doing it wrong.
Episode 2 of FMA2 loaded fine last week during what was a peak hour the week before. I'd guess they are only fattening up the pipes a little and buying burst bandwidth based on the bandwidth graphs. They clearly have been adapting week by week and things on Friday were already back to normal last week.

What they really need to do is switch from 200MB On2VP6 files to 150MB h.264 files.

[Buster Blader 126]

So I'm not the only one having some problems with FUNi's streaming, so it seems.

I tried to watch Episode 1 of Phantom at 1 AM earlier today, and after about 2-3 minutes or so, it just went back to the beginning of the episodes, despite the generous amount of time I gave it to buffer.

I guess I'll give it another go soon enough. I know that this is a work in progress, and I can be patient for things like this.

[MadL]

So I'm not the only one having some problems with FUNi's streaming, so it seems.

Nope. Just tried streaming ep 1 of Phantom (roughly 8:30 pm ET Saturday), but gave up after about five buffering delays in the first minute or two of show time. What I eventually ended up doing with the first ep of FMA when it premiered was to let it stutter and buffer its way to completion, then replay the now-fully-buffered episode. Of course, following this strategy means finding something else to do for the hour or two it takes to finish the first time.

Of course, when it works, FUNi's player is great - good video quality, IMO, and it's great to be able to get FMA and try Phantom so close to their Japanese premieres. I love the idea, and they're headed in the right direction, certainly; but FUNi really needs to do something about the buffering issue.