Streaming Killed the Home Video Star... And Itself?

[Chris Beveridge]

In the world of anime, streaming and simultaneous broadcast online of shows from Japan has been hailed as the Holy Grail that will help solve the problems that are ailing the industry, at least by fans. In the old days when fans could only see shows by trading them on VHS tapes, distribution was low and effort was high as was the cost at times depending on the quality of the tapes you wanted to have made and postage...

More... (http://www.mania.com/streaming-killed-video-star-itself_article_115901.html)

[The Great Bear]

That was a sobering read. Not that I disagree with the main points you've made. There is a significant problem if the home video releases are not adding any value over the streaming product, adding enough value that people bother to buy.

Of course, there really is no alternative. If the production companies did not get involved in streaming, the fansubbers would just illegally continue to steal all of the content and illegally distribute it, without regard to how it was, and still is, helping to destroy the home video market.

It was, and still is, a Catch-22.

The economy tanking at this point in time certainly did not help at all.

The real question is whether they will be able to sufficiently monetize the streams in the future. Right now, they're not able to do that, as you've noted. That's the challenge.

Well, we'll see. I'm not taking any bets on anything just yet.

[Draneor]

Well, I've been skeptical that streaming could be profitable in and of itself. I figure if Google and Hulu can't do it, how can CR or FUNimation? But whether the promotional benefits (minus the drawbacks) outweigh the negatives of fansubs (plus any positives) I obviously don’t know. I hope it does, because, personally, I like streaming. Translations are generally better than the alternative and episodes are released consistently.

But most anime aren’t designed to produce revenue by advertising. They’re infomercials for a very limited but dedicated audience with large wallets. Without DVDs, character goods, or some other item to sell, I’m not sure if there would be a point to localizing.

Maybe streaming will force the industry to focus on only those shows that have the broadest appeal. Ones that have a chance to generate a large enough audience for advertising to matter. Which would suck, if you have specific tastes.

[Buckeye]

This is the effect of the double-edged sword. It helps fill in one hole, but opens up another with the distribution by streaming. Most of the points are right on the money.

[Quarkboy]

The way out, and I should know being someone trying to make it happen, involves a number of things being developed:

1. Japanese anime needs to have international distro such as subs/streaming budgeted into their original costs, with english dubbing costs for obviously internationally marketable shows (like the next naruto, etc).
2. These companies need to use an open streaming platform like CR, etc with day and date streaming to Japan, and begin to negotiate merchandising and physical media rights separately from digital streaming rights, taking the streaming as an essentially zero-sum advertising model (i.e. earns enough to be self sufficient, but not much else).
3. They need to seriously ramp up merchandising, character goods, virtual merchandise and other forms of small-cost, low priced goods that can be marketed directly on the streaming sites.
4. Japanese companies need to find a way to simul_dub big shows to keep down dubbing costs and enable worldwide approx simultaneous TV broadcast.
5. Japanese companies need to persist serving the collectors market in Japan, and slowly internationalize that market by partnering with international distributors and taking advantage of blu-ray's region coding. A good goal for them would be 20% of blu-ray sales are overseas 2 years from now. With inclusion of english, spanish, and frenchsubtitles on the discs and a couple of international distribution deals, I don't see that as a stretch, even at near Japanese prices (we're talking ~500 discs worldwide... I think that can be done).

Basically, the idea is not that streaming replaces DVDs, but that streaming replaces TV airings, and DVD sales are replaced by Blu-ray sales +++ enhanced micro-merchandizing driven by streaming exposure.

That model can work.

Note the unfortunate lack of the term "R1 companies" in my prescription... In my view they will all end up bought by a Japanese studio, or as a pure service company, or bankrupt.
Funi might be able to survive, but they'll have to be very careful and very adaptable. We'll see.

[tablesalt]

I could never get into streaming. I just can't get invested in something on my computer screen. So with fewer releases these days, I just find myself watching a lot less.
If it wasn't for Rightstuf's sub only boxes, I think I'd be out of anime entirely.

It's like no one learned anything from the .com boom. They just keep throwing money at this thing, and no one stops to ask how they'll get it back. They'd be better off letting the fansubbers do it, cause then the companies wouldn't be out the licensing, production, and distribution costs.

How long have we been hearing the excuse that fansubs/streaming are advertising for the DVDs? It turns out it's backwards. The DVD sales are subsidizing the streaming, and as one of the few remaining buyers, I'm not going to carry that weight forever.

[Chris Beveridge]

I could never get into streaming. I just can't get invested in something on my computer screen.

I can't watch on my computer screen either.

I watch a lot of streaming.

[stfram]

There is a significant problem if the home video releases are not adding any value over the streaming product, adding enough value that people bother to buy.


All I'm seeing with most current season sets is cost cutting, lowered disc counts, no extras, etc.

Sure, we're still getting dubs, but nearly zilch beyond that. Hence my lack of any Funi sets beyond Aquarion Part I, and I sold that off a long time ago. What's the point? There's absolutely no passion in their releases anymore.

I'm still buying their "last" singles for Baccano, Claymore, and DtB, but after that, that's it for Funi.

Nozomi remains the exceptional exception to that rule, upping disc count, getting more extras, booklets, etc. And those are mostly sub-only releases to boot. If I don't buy them I feel guilty. :sweat:

Of course, the money I'm saving that was going to Funi/ADV/etc is more than enough to get those releases, even though I order direct from TRSI with only the basic preorder and GA discounts.


Of course, there really is no alternative. If the production companies did not get involved in streaming, the fansubbers would just illegally continue to steal all of the content and illegally distribute it, without regard to how it was, and still is, helping to destroy the home video market.


Kinda disagree here.

The only thing Funi (since they're the main streamer now) did was take over the cost of translation and bandwidth from the fansubbers...who still distribute the streamed shows, since a torrent is way faster than these streams. What's the point of a simultaneous broadcast if it takes eight hours to buffer it?

It's sad yet also funny: I've seen "fansubs" with a [Funi] group credit. :rolleyes:

And the One Piece debacle, and their over-wrought reaction to it, certainly didn't help things.


The economy tanking at this point in time certainly did not help at all.


That has had more to do with killing retail sales than anything else, fansubbing, bootlegging, etc, combined.

Perhaps going back to niche releases may be best for all concerned; fans will be assured that they'll be getting high-quality releases (nice box, booklets, cover art, lots of on-disc extras, likely sub-only), and the cheapskates can go with the fansub-only route.

[Fencedude]

Perhaps going back to niche releases may be best for all concerned; fans will be assured that they'll be getting high-quality releases (nice box, booklets, cover art, lots of on-disc extras, likely sub-only), and the cheapskates can go with the fansub-only route.

This won't work because, as has been explained to you several times before, there are more than just those two categories.

[LordGeo]

I could never get into streaming. I just can't get invested in something on my computer screen.

I can't watch on my computer screen either.

I watch a lot of streaming.

Chris, I don't think everyone has either a PS3 (like you), a computer connected to a TV (like me), or a Wii (if they watch from YouTube) so that they can watch streams on something other than a computer stream.

Anyway, my view on streaming is still the same: It should be there to compliment DVD buying, not to replace or be the only option. Of course, for some shows it's the only option but hopefully that will change.

[stfram]

Note the unfortunate lack of the term "R1 companies" in my prescription... In my view they will all end up bought by a Japanese studio...


Why hasn't that happened yet (ignoring Bandai and Geneon)? Seems to me that ADV would be a great takeover target: they've got their own dub studio, distribution, name recognition, etc...

[stfram]

Perhaps going back to niche releases may be best for all concerned; fans will be assured that they'll be getting high-quality releases (nice box, booklets, cover art, lots of on-disc extras, likely sub-only), and the cheapskates can go with the fansub-only route.

This won't work because, as has been explained to you several times before, there are more than just those two categories.

Which are?

[Fencedude]

Perhaps going back to niche releases may be best for all concerned; fans will be assured that they'll be getting high-quality releases (nice box, booklets, cover art, lots of on-disc extras, likely sub-only), and the cheapskates can go with the fansub-only route.

This won't work because, as has been explained to you several times before, there are more than just those two categories.

Which are?

The ENTIRE RANGE between "fansubs only" and "will only buy DVDs with ridiculous extras included"

I personally find the current release format from most R1 companies to be absolutely perfect.

[stfram]

The ENTIRE RANGE between "fansubs only" and "will only buy DVDs with ridiculous extras included"


So Nozomi's releases are ridiculous?

[Fencedude]

So Nozomi's releases are ridiculous?

Of course not, but then again, thats not what we're talking about here.

You have, frequently, stated that lower priced DVD releases are a bad thing.

[aku.chan]

The problem that I see is that there is now a large chunk of fans who want to watch anime but not actually collect it.

These are the fans that are attracted to streaming sites, because they don't want to own the series, just watch it and move on.

Doesn't really work for me, while I've been getting into streaming and "unofficial" releases in a bigger way this last year or so, I tend to lose interest in them easily. They don't have that "I've paid for it, I'm damned well going to watch it to the end" factor that gets me through the odd bad episode.

I'll be okay though. When the industry collapses I'll just keep re-watching my collection.

...Until I can't get ahold of a DVD player anymore, then I'm screwed.

[Quarkboy]

Note the unfortunate lack of the term "R1 companies" in my prescription... In my view they will all end up bought by a Japanese studio...


Why hasn't that happened yet (ignoring Bandai and Geneon)? Seems to me that ADV would be a great takeover target: they've got their own dub studio, distribution, name recognition, etc...

Dub studio: mothballed, hasn't done anything in months, most actors/engineers moved on... worthless as a purchase.
Distribution: Outsourced to Nozomi for warehousing. Only thing that they have is personal contacts with big chain stores, which can't be "bought out"...
name recognition: Even ADV doesn't seem to want to call themselves "ADV" anymore...

No one is buying ADV because they'd be taking on massive debt and not getting much in return.

(Note, with the one exception being "The Anime Network" but I suspect that would need to be bought out separately anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if TAN gets some Japanese investment sooner or later.)

[The Great Bear]

They'd be better off letting the fansubbers do it, cause then the companies wouldn't be out the licensing, production, and distribution costs.

And the companies will also be out any means of making any money off of the shows, since they'll be basically throwing up their hands in the air and saying "Here! Take it for Free! We don't care! Don't buy legal products! Don't buy anything! Support Piracy!"

You cannot survive on the collectors' market alone. The little experiment called Bandai Visual USA proved that for the North American market. If you think the anime industry, such as it is, in North America can survive purely by just allowing fansubbers to run rampant, and then trying to sell overpriced collectors' editions to a small group who are willing to pay…well…you've learned nothing from what happened.

The only thing Funi (since they're the main streamer now) did was take over the cost of translation and bandwidth from the fansubbers...who still distribute the streamed shows, since a torrent is way faster than these streams. What's the point of a simultaneous broadcast if it takes eight hours to buffer it?

The technology is still young. It will improve with time.

And it's the only legal alternative. Otherwise, see above on the related thought of the companies just giving up and giving in.

[Fencedude]

One of the main issues with streaming is that Flash sucks, and streaming through a non-browser based program (WMP, VLC, whatever) has a much larger potential of not working.

Flash streaming is reliable, but due to the format's limitations, you need a significantly more powerful system to stream a 720p video over flash than to play the same resolution movie through a standard video program.

This issue is not insurmountable, of course, but it is an issue.

[stfram]

So Nozomi's releases are ridiculous?

Of course not, but then again, thats not what we're talking about here.


*shakes head*

Nozomi's current releases are the ones I had specifically in mind.

Chipboard boxes, no reduced disc count, copious extras both physical and on disc. Yeah, you give up a dub, but you get back enough to offset that.

If it becomes a niche again, that's what will keep me buying.


You have, frequently, stated that lower priced DVD releases are a bad thing.

They are, considering what Funi has managed to do with the concept, although I would argue that Funi's releases aren't exactly cheap, either.

I've never felt comfortable with a company pursuing the very last dollar at the cost of everything else.

If you can convert a few fansub-only watchers, great. It's insanity, however, to try to convert them all.

Same goes with pursuing the fans that only buy R2 releases, hence the absorption of BV-USA into Bandai.

Yes, I fully recognize that singles are (or just nearly?) dead. That doesn't mean that everything else must go away as well.

[stfram]

You cannot survive on the collectors' market alone. The little experiment called Bandai Visual USA proved that for the North American market.


BV-USA died because they were asking R2 prices, but weren't providing R2 perks, other than fantastic video quality.

Not to mention their shitty distribution.

I love my Patlabor, Freedom, Jin-Roh, and Akira releases that they did, which DID provide the R2 perks.

WOH was nicely done, but should have been a third of the price, since even the R2 had minimal extras. The force-bundling of a different format didn't help.

Gunbuster...won't go there. Bad. Same with their TV-show releases.

The collectors market is still there. The sell-out of the Akira BR first-press indicates that.

[dragoon]

Interesting read and I pretty much agree with Chris' statements.

More and more companies are certainly now focusing on streaming more to diversify their reach and supplement DVD sales. How long that will last is anyone's guess. But I'm certainly seeing a change in how the legal companies operate and treat it.


Note the unfortunate lack of the term "R1 companies" in my prescription... In my view they will all end up bought by a Japanese studio...


Why hasn't that happened yet (ignoring Bandai and Geneon)? Seems to me that ADV would be a great takeover target: they've got their own dub studio, distribution, name recognition, etc...

Dub studio: mothballed, hasn't done anything in months, most actors/engineers moved on... worthless as a purchase.
Distribution: Outsourced to Nozomi for warehousing. Only thing that they have is personal contacts with big chain stores, which can't be "bought out"...
name recognition: Even ADV doesn't seem to want to call themselves "ADV" anymore...

No one is buying ADV because they'd be taking on massive debt and not getting much in return.

(Note, with the one exception being "The Anime Network" but I suspect that would need to be bought out separately anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if TAN gets some Japanese investment sooner or later.)

I disagree with some of that.

Based on several semi-public statements, I wouldn't be too sure that the term mothballed may be accurate anymore, but with the state the market it is in, sometimes it feels like it's almost like day to day when things change. Not many know what really is going on when they are so tight-lipped and those who know are fairly tight-lipped as well. Like Ledford said in his interview last year things can be scaled up when needed. A lot of the production staff were contract workers anyway, while some have moved on, some commute, but the majority are still are in town. It won't be hard to restart things, even if they've lost it all though (which they have not), they still have Greenfield there to lead the dub division if needed. If there's one thing ADV's good at it's finding new production and voice talent.

The name recognition thing... well, getting Now and Then, Here and There which was on SciFi and Grave of the Fireflies are fairly name-worthy additions to the ADV brand. The whole speculation thing that a lot of people in this forum seem to enjoy about ADV, I personally think it's a lot more complex than a few of us without real first hand info realize or can tell.

As far as buy-out, I think it's more of an issue of the market and economics more than anything. With the R1 market as it is today, it doesn't exactly fill potential investors with confidence to invest in it until things get better or at least things play itself out.

[tablesalt]

They'd be better off letting the fansubbers do it, cause then the companies wouldn't be out the licensing, production, and distribution costs.

And the companies will also be out any means of making any money off of the shows, since they'll be basically throwing up their hands in the air and saying "Here! Take it for Free! We don't care! Don't buy legal products! Don't buy anything! Support Piracy!"


But that's what they're doing anyways; only, they're paying for the privilege of giving it away.

They can't charge for it, because the fansubs will still win. And if the value of streaming is as advertising, they'd be better off letting someone else foot the bill (and I don' watch any fansubs or bootlegs of any kind, so I'm not saying this out of bias).

[Draneor]

Honestly, I think most anime is just unsellable outside Japan, no matter how you try to package it. Sets, streaming, singles--it won't matter until Japan starts making shows the average gaijin wants to watch again.


died because they were asking R2 prices, but weren't providing R2 perks, other than fantastic video quality.

Pretty sure BV-USA would have died even if they sold gold-plated super jewels. BV hasn't even done that well in Japan as of late (if you exclude Sunrise shows).

[The Great Bear]

BV-USA died because they were asking R2 prices

You can stop right there, no need to mention anything else. It doesn't really matter how many perks or exclusives were provided.

I love my Patlabor, Freedom, Jin-Roh, and Akira releases that they did, which DID provide the R2 perks.

I'm glad you enjoyed them. I bought the Regular Edition versions of Patlabor movies 1 and 2. I had no interest in buying the LE editions, no matter how many extras they packed in. And the vast majority of buyers (since that's all we are really concerned with) seemed to agree with me, as those LE editions languished on the warehouse shelves of TRSI for many, many months (I can no longer remember how long those LEs were sitting in the Weekly Specials, but it was a long time).

The collectors market is still there. The sell-out of the Akira BR first-press indicates that.

Sell-out is meaningless unless we have some idea of how many they produced in the first place. Did they manufacture enough to make a healthy profit, a slim profit, or merely to recoup their production costs? Anything other than Possible Outcome A there, and it's not likely to be a sustainable business model (a slim profit on Akira does not help the idea of a sustainable business, since that's a title with very high recognition outside of anime fandom—I know many people who are not anime fans who have seen it and even some who own it—and does not represent how other, less noteworthy titles, will sell.

And that was just the first press. Was there a second run? If not, then it's potentially not that impressive.

[stfram]

Honestly, I think most anime is just unsellable outside Japan, no matter how you try to package it. Sets, streaming, singles--it won't matter until Japan starts making shows the average gaijin wants to watch again.


As long as shows that won't sell to gaijin's are selling to Japanese, that won't happen.

When is the last time they did a show mainly because it would sell well here? Big-O II?


Pretty sure BV-USA would have died even if they sold gold-plated super jewels. BV hasn't even done that well in Japan as of late (if you exclude Sunrise shows).

You're probably correct, but folks here would have been genuinely sad, rather than the celebrating that happened when the news broke. :sd:

[Chris Beveridge]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

[The Great Bear]

But that's what they're doing anyways; only, they're paying for the privilege of giving it away.

But they're not entirely giving it away. When it runs on sites such as Crunchyroll and hulu, there is advertising (and in the case of CR, memberships) revenue which they are getting a cut of. Sure, it doesn't compare to home video sales, but it's better than what they get from fansubbing, which is 0.

And on a site such as Funimation, again, it's not a complete giveaway for the Japanese licensor, since presumably Funi is paying the licensing fee for streaming rights.

They can't charge for it, because the fansubs will still win. And if the value of streaming is as advertising, they'd be better off letting someone else foot the bill (and I don' watch any fansubs or bootlegs of any kind, so I'm not saying this out of bias).

It's not really a matter of complete win or lose, unless the companies (and by this, I really mean the Japanese companies who create and produce these show to begin with) do nothing. If they do nothing and allow fansubs to run rampant, then yes, they simply lose.

There is some money, not as much as from home video, but some money out there to be made from streaming. If there weren't then hulu and Crunchyroll would be out of business already. Why shouldn't the anime producers try to at least get some money out of the deal? Why should they just give in to piracy?

And we really don't know how much the localization costs are. Keep in mind, hiring a person (and it really might take only a single person) to translation and then time a subtitle script might not amount to a very large outlay. Perhaps far less than the advertising revenue coming in. So why shouldn't they go for streaming?

[Consignia]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

Certainly not for me, I'm buying more than ever. I do however notice I shifting more to the Japanese releases, though.

[Fencedude]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

Not really, but streaming hasn't particularly affected the basics of how I primarily view anime. All it really does is make when I watch a half dozen or so shows more predictable.

DVDs were, for me, rarely the original viewing medium, though there are still a few exceptions, most recent being Baccano!.

[Fencedude]

And we really don't know how much the localization costs are. Keep in mind, hiring a person (and it really might take only a single person) to translation and then time a subtitle script might not amount to a very large outlay. Perhaps far less than the advertising revenue coming in. So why shouldn't they go for streaming?

I don't know if he's willing or able to discuss the compensation, but we have a Crunchyroll translator as a regular on this site, so it should be possible to find a ballpark figure at least.

[Draneor]

When is the last time they did a show mainly because it would sell well here? Big-O II?

Afro Samurai. Most Gonzo shows. The R1 market tanked, so the industry focused on what sells where people still buy shit. It's clearly not a long term solution. Another Pokemon-type show would do wonders, but what can the industry do right now? Anime production companies aren't exactly known for large cash reserves.

You're probably correct, but folks here would have been genuinely sad, rather than the celebrating that happened when the news broke. :sd:

I doubt it (unless you could resell the gold for a profit). The thing is, most anime fans aren't otaku (in the Japanese sense). Also, pretty much any hardcore anime fan has at least one hobby horse about anime DVDs. English dubbing, boxes, episode count, FUNi's bad video quality, M-locks, floaters, honorifics, and so on ad ad infinitum. The problem is we all demand different things. And when each faction isn't very large... it's impossible to please everybody. No matter what you do, you will have hundreds of people bitching about it. Because that's what fans do.

[something]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?
Not really, but streaming hasn't particularly affected the basics of how I primarily view anime. All it really does is make when I watch a half dozen or so shows more predictable.
DVDs were, for me, rarely the original viewing medium, though there are still a few cases (most recent being Baccano!)
Exactly the same here. Streaming hasn't changed anything for me, and any show I enjoy before it gets a DVD release, whatever the methods, will still be bought on DVD if DVDs are made. DVD just isn't my first viewing most of the time, and when it is it's generally because I was able to find the discs cheap.

In fact streaming has made me spend ever so slightly extra, because on top of all the DVDs I would have bought anyway, I also paid for a $60 1-year Crunchyroll subscription. Oh and like $30-some for those Strike Witches downloads, which is about as much as the Funi DVD set will cost me when I buy that... >_>

If streaming is killing home video, which I find quite debatable, then what's the difference if we were to believe the old "fansubs killlll anime!" arguments? If it was allegedly going to die anyway (it wasn't), how is streaming making it worse? I think, Chris, that your buying habits (in effect, buy everything) are too atypical to use as a gauge for how this will be accepted on the whole. And as you note, you can't claim trends with it. The only segment of fandom where I can see streaming hurting sales is the "own thousands of discs and never watch fansubs" crowd, which is a small fraction even of this board and almost nonexistent elsewhere. People who watch fansubs have no real change with streaming, because they're still seeing the shows before DVD, and if they were buying after seeing fansubs there's no special reason not to buy after seeing a stream. And for people with small DVD collections, they were likely being selective and only buying their favorites to begin with.

I guess I just can't see how the alternatives for the industry were any better. I think streaming is becoming a fantastic method of distribution, at least in theory if not in technical quality. And for people who don't care about completely smooth video, true full screen, watching in their player software of choice, etc, streaming is great.


At any rate, the bottom line for me is that streaming = legal fansubs, and so I'm not going to react any differently in my purchasing decisions after seeing streaming than I would after seeing fansubs. The dynamic is very much the same, all that's changed is a legality that never factored into my decisions in the first place.

[stfram]

And the vast majority of buyers (since that's all we are really concerned with) seemed to agree with me, as those LE editions languished on the warehouse shelves of TRSI for many, many months (I can no longer remember how long those LEs were sitting in the Weekly Specials, but it was a long time).


They printed 10k copies of each. Both LE's sold in the 4-5k range, IIRC.

Of course they hung around...they printed way too damned many. And there are theories about why they did that many...price breaks on printing is one of them (price for 5k only a bit less than 10k).


Sell-out is meaningless unless we have some idea of how many they produced in the first place. Did they manufacture enough to make a healthy profit, a slim profit, or merely to recoup their production costs?


They printed 10k. The first press had a black slipcase and a thin booklet in addition to the standard BR disc case.

Given how little that must have cost to add, I'd expect that they made a pretty decent profit.


And that was just the first press. Was there a second run? If not, then it's potentially not that impressive.

There was a second run. Lots of folks got them instead of FP's since they were simply not available.

We'll never know how well the second press sold, of course, but the gangbuster sales of the first press are without question.

[The Great Bear]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

It's hard to say one way or the other in general. It's really more a case by case basis.

Saying what it's done for me is purely anecdotal, and thus useless statistically, but I'll go ahead and give some examples.

Strain. I saw the first four episodes at Funimation's site a while back. I was intrigued enough by it that I decided to buy the set. While not among my top shows, it was entertaining enough. Would I have bought it if I had seen the entire show through streaming? That is an interesting question. Probably not. Do I regret the purchase? No, not really. I was entertained, and I feel I got my money's worth, even if it may not have much replay value for me.

FMA: Brotherhood. I'm currently watching it streamed, when I'm allowed to :P Will I buy it when it comes to video? Yes. I am very interested in how the dub will turn out, since the first version had a rather good dub.

Hayate the Combat Butler!! Season 2. I am definitely enjoying this as it is being streamed now. Will I buy it? Probably, though it will sadly be sub-only unless something drastically changes. I am less certain about buying the first season anytime soon, however.

Saki. Yes, I will be buying it. While I am enjoying it quite a lot streaming, I think it will look even better seeing it on a TV with better quality (I'd love for this to be released on BD). But if it's only released here in the US as sub-only DVDs, I think I will pass. Not sufficient value addition to make it worth my money.

[Draneor]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

Hayate no Gotoku!!: I was going to buy the Japanese BDs regardless. So streaming has had no affect.

Natsu no Arashi: No way in hell am I going to get the R2s. I probably would have bought the R1 release, if there was one. But having seen it, I don't really feel the need now (I would check out the manga, if licensed).

Saki: I stopped watching it after episode three. I may buy the R1 DVDs.

There are shows that FUNi licensed that I no longer see the need to buy, since I expect I'll eventually be able to watch it on their website. Like Keroro Gunso (St. Frog). But for the most part, streaming has just replaced fansubs for me. And watching fansubs never really stopped me from buying something before.

[dragoon]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

I was actually meaning to make this point above before it got sidetracked. ;)

Isn't this essentially the arguement against fansubs in the past? A lot of those who watched it via other means once they finish something... move onto the next new thing... then by the time the DVDs come out, the interest is either no longer there, never really existed or they are too smitten by the next new thing.

If it's a great show I enjoy like say Death Note, Full Metal Panic (which I was introduced from beginning to end via TV) whatever... then seeing it makes me more inclined to buy it. But then other shows that I didn't enjoy as much, did not have as much longevity for me... stuff like as you pointed out Blassreiter, Strike Witches, Druaga... which I actually all enjoyed even though I'm primarily a dub watcher. Enjoyed them in their native release. But now, even though I'm interested to watch it/see it dubbed to see if I may enjoy it more, it's not high on my priority list at all. I wouldn't feel lacking, if I never saw or got the DVD dubbed versions of those titles. Maybe I'm falling into the above said trap...? ;)

For one reason or another, I personally have stopped watching any legal simulcasts this year vs last year. Since I watch only through legal means, it's definitely something I'm considering more and more as a consumer, to watch simulcasts vs waiting (for DVD quality, etc, dub addition?).

It's a double edged sword, some titles benefit from free streaming, some don't. Which is which will be determined by personal tastes.

Replay value may need to be an increasingly important element in titles for those of us who buy primarily to watch vs collect.

[Classical]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

In my case, it hasn't killed my interest much so far, if at all. If anything, the shows that I'm following that are currently streaming (Saki, Shangri-la, Phantom) I'm interested in buying the DVDs for (that is, if they get an R1 release). My desire to buy a show then would stem on the fact of whether I enjoyed it or not. In that sense then, if I were to watch a show via streaming and I don't like it, it may have then killed a potential sale from me had I not seen it streamed (and I'm certainly not going to bother watching the whole show if I don't like it, even if it's free). However, the reverse situation can and has also happened. If there is a show I'm on the fence about, or a show that I don't have much interest in, I watch a few episodes through streaming (assuming it's available). If I like it, I buy the releases for whatever show I watched streaming. This has been the case with shows like Last Exile, Negima!? and Shuffle! Either way, I vastly prefer watching anime on my TV as supposed to my computer so home video will always have that added value to me.

[chronoclast]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

I am actually. The only thing I've streamed recently that I'm still going to buy, whenever it's released on Blu-ray, is Code Geass. Everything else I either didn't like or I'll never rewatch it again.

Jyu-Oh-Sei for instance was a show that I was planning to buy but after streaming it I'm not going to. It's a decent show but it's not something I'll ever rewatch so there's no point for me to spend money on it.

Strain on the other hand was a show I was interested in but after streaming it it ended up being an atrocious piece of crap so streaming it saved me some money compared to had I of blind bought it instead.

These days I only want to spend my money on shows that I know I'll enjoy and that I'll watch more than once. I've been burned quite a few times in the past when I've blind bought stuff and it ends up sucking. That's money I could have put towards other things. Streaming has helped with that problem. Fansubs too I guess though that's not really something I use much. With fansubs, I might check out the first episode or two if a show isn't streaming to give me an idea if I'll like it or not like Eden of the East recently but that's usually it.

[dragonrider_cody]

Interesting read and I pretty much agree with Chris' statements.

More and more companies are certainly now focusing on streaming more to diversify their reach and supplement DVD sales. How long that will last is anyone's guess. But I'm certainly seeing a change in how the legal companies operate and treat it.


Note the unfortunate lack of the term "R1 companies" in my prescription... In my view they will all end up bought by a Japanese studio...


Why hasn't that happened yet (ignoring Bandai and Geneon)? Seems to me that ADV would be a great takeover target: they've got their own dub studio, distribution, name recognition, etc...

Dub studio: mothballed, hasn't done anything in months, most actors/engineers moved on... worthless as a purchase.
Distribution: Outsourced to Nozomi for warehousing. Only thing that they have is personal contacts with big chain stores, which can't be "bought out"...
name recognition: Even ADV doesn't seem to want to call themselves "ADV" anymore...

No one is buying ADV because they'd be taking on massive debt and not getting much in return.

(Note, with the one exception being "The Anime Network" but I suspect that would need to be bought out separately anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if TAN gets some Japanese investment sooner or later.)

I disagree with some of that.

Based on several semi-public statements, I wouldn't be too sure that the term mothballed may be accurate anymore, but with the state the market it is in, sometimes it feels like it's almost like day to day when things change. Not many know what really is going on when they are so tight-lipped and those who know are fairly tight-lipped as well. Like Ledford said in his interview last year things can be scaled up when needed. A lot of the production staff were contract workers anyway, while some have moved on, some commute, but the majority are still are in town. It won't be hard to restart things, even if they've lost it all though (which they have not), they still have Greenfield there to lead the dub division if needed. If there's one thing ADV's good at it's finding new production and voice talent.

The name recognition thing... well, getting Now and Then, Here and There which was on SciFi and Grave of the Fireflies are fairly name-worthy additions to the ADV brand. The whole speculation thing that a lot of people in this forum seem to enjoy about ADV, I personally think it's a lot more complex than a few of us without real first hand info realize or can tell.

As far as buy-out, I think it's more of an issue of the market and economics more than anything. With the R1 market as it is today, it doesn't exactly fill potential investors with confidence to invest in it until things get better or at least things play itself out.

Plus, I feel the need to address the comments about distributing. Nozomi does do warehousing services for ADV, but they are not their distributor. Most people seem to get these two things confused. If you are equating the warehousing and distributing as the same, then Paramount, Warner Brothers, Sony, Universal, Fox, and Genius do not actually distribute product. Their products are produced and warehoused by Cinram, Technicolor, Ditan and others. Simply check any box that comes into Best Buy, Walmart, or FYE. They all come from outside warehousers and producers, or third party wholesalers, or VMI's, like Ingram and Navarre.

When you handle distribution, the companies place their orders directly with the company. The orders are placed and forwarded to their warehouser, like Technicolor, who ship the products to the retailers. Now some smaller companies, like ADV, Media Blasters and Funimation, for instance are now handled differently due to the changes at Best Buy. But ADV and Funimation do still technically do their own distribution, even though ADV and Media Blasters titles now come in as "Ingram" and Funi discs come in as
Navarre".

[dragonrider_cody]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

There are several instances of streaming shows that I had some interest in, that I no longer wish to purchase. I was really interested in Strike Witches, but after streaming it, I would no longer purchase it. It has saved me from some blind buys that I would have regretted.

But on the reverse side, there have been some instances where it has encouraged me to purchase a show I had not originally been interested in. I kept skipping on Sakura Wars and Princess Tutu, but after streaming them on Anime Network, I decided I really did enjoy them and purchased them. If it wasn't for the streaming, I may have never bought them.

[Suwako Moriya]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

Just like with some others, I can't say it's effected my purchasing habit one way or the other. The only real change is how I approach previewing certain series. Ie if I can legitimately stream it then I figure I may as well watch it that way instead.

My pattern has always boiled down to a fraction thing. That's partially dependent on what gets licensed. Actually if anything, it will be competition from other hobbies that will reduce the amount of anime I buy.

[LordGeo]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

Not really, since watching Pretty Cure streamed just makes me want DVDs of it even more. Of course, if it's a show I don't enjoy then I thank god I watched the stream and then said "No thank you" to the DVDs.

[EmperorBrandon]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

One of my latest experiences was the opposite - I tried Moon Phase on FUNimation's website, and it got me to immediately wanting to purchase (granted, a bargain bin collection), when I wasn't too interested in blind buying before. To me, streaming is a preview. If I really like a show, then I'm definitely going to want to buy it at some point (how quickly, after it is available, depends on cost and how much I like the series) and don't really rewatch the streams. If I don't like it, then I'll stop after a few episodes, and that's that. It's practically the same way I treat fansubs, which I rarely keep and rewatch, but better in my mind since I'm viewing an official translation authorized by the license holders.

[Dack Ralter]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?
I don't watch fansubs, but I have been trying out legal streams so I can watch some of these shows before I get the opportunity to buy them. I've found that I don't care for watching on my computer screen (in addition to having some technical problems), which makes me all the more happy to purchase a DVD release.

I tend to spend too much money on anime anyway and streaming previews just shift around my list of top priorities, rather than increasing or decreasing the amount I spend. I guess I've finally gained the ability to become a discriminating consumer, rather than an optimistic blind buyer. I am still a small-scale collector though (still in the hundreds, rather than the thousands) and I might just be picking up slack.

[james_039]

Higher availability of streams online definitely has not curtailed my DVD buying, and neither did fansubs. It's really all the same to me. I buy DVD's since they are far more permanent versions of the product, come in a package representing the series, and are hopefully presented with extra features. I've never watched an English dub in probably 5 years (and then I only ever watched them on TV because this was the only thing available to me). Reduction in English dubs is not going to have any effect on my spending habits either. In fact, I may start buying more because retailers tend to reduce prices on sub-only DVDs compared to their bilingual counterparts, since many others in the marketplace perceive a reduced value. To me, they just appear cheaper, and all the more tempting.

I buy the DVD's because I liked the show and also because I am a collector. I buy DVD's because I want the most perfect versions possible, and to have a hard, durable copy of something I love. I've spent tons of money on hundreds of discs, and will continue to buy those products which I perceive to be valuable. I import expensive R2s to that avail, if that's what it takes to get what I personally feel is the best version of the show available. Lower price is nice, but I've never been shy about paying more to get what I want.

Streams make things a lot easier for me. If I am on the fence about a DVD, the first thing I do is look for it online just to check it out, or learn more about the DVD release (I discovered this site trying to find information to aid me in DVD purchasing decisions). It's nice to be able to just watch some of the show without hunting through random torrent sites, or trying to guess if I'll like it based on another reviewer's opinion.

[Quarkboy]

And we really don't know how much the localization costs are. Keep in mind, hiring a person (and it really might take only a single person) to translation and then time a subtitle script might not amount to a very large outlay. Perhaps far less than the advertising revenue coming in. So why shouldn't they go for streaming?

I don't know if he's willing or able to discuss the compensation, but we have a Crunchyroll translator as a regular on this site, so it should be possible to find a ballpark figure at least.

It's not a very large outlay, but the ad revenue is not large either. Let's just say that my knowledge of the actual costs influenced what I said in my previous post.

Setting aside 0.5-1% of an episode's budget for translation/overseas streaming distribution would be the best way of accounting for these costs, instead of considering it an "added expense" like it is now.

[Doom85]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

No, not in any way. TBH, even legal streaming doesn't feel enough for me in terms of supporting the industry (note: JUST for me, I am in no way implying there is something wrong with others choosing to only legally stream and never buy), I just feel buying the DVDs contributes more and I can always have it in my collection in case I suddenly have an impulse to watch it years down the road (which is often, my viewing schedule is pretty random).

I'm also a collector, I love seeing the physical sight of so many DVDs lined up on my shelf, so streaming can never take that away from me.

Since some mentioned sub-only releases, I'll say it will not affect my decision to buy those series (Aria and Hayate are on my "eventual" list, and Clannad may be considered someday too) despite the fact that I primarily watch dubs. I will be severely disappointed if we get to the point where most anime are sub-only (the Lucky Star OVA is pushing it since it followed a dubbed release, and if Bandai really does have a "only TV deal anime will get dubbed" policy going (just a theory though), that might mean even Haruhi Season 2 will lack a dub :(), but even then, I won't let that affect my buying decisions. I generally enjoy anime slightly more in English, but the Japanese version is enjoyable as well.

I've said it before, but if anime DVDs completely vanish, my new anime viewing will probably plummet to almost nothing. I'll probably continue any long-running series like Naruto or One Piece still going on until they conclude, and call it quits after that, and stick with what I already own as well as finish buying the older DVDs I don't have yet. I mean, I'd hate to think I might watch a show I really love and then realize I couldn't own it (unless I felt like coughing up a ton of dough for R2 DVDs, as well as buying a region-free player). I mean, the last few years I've been most impressed with Gurren Lagann and Haruhi Suzumiya, if I had a "hah, you got to watch it once, but you can never own the DVDs, mwahahaha!!!" moment, I would have been quite depressed. :(

[covnam]

I really enjoyed reading the article, but I would have to agree with those above who didn't agree that streaming will kill the home dvd market. At least no more than fansubs do. Online streaming is still relatively new, for regular tv and anime alike, so I think it still needs more time to get proper revenue streams.

I subscribe to The Anime Network and have both bought and held off from buying shows based on what I've seen. I may not even watch some of those shows again, but I still like to have them in case I do. It's the same with the TV show dvds I have.

Of course, the entire video industry could change in just a few years. Personally I wouldn't mind paying for a subscription service that gave me access to everything on TV at any time I wanted. VoD on steroids ;) Some companies/networks would certainly hate that just as much as those who produce physical discs, but sometimes that's the way progress goes.

I definately agree though about the quality of the dvd releases affecting a purchase though. If I've already seen something online or have paid to see it on TV, I'm not going to be as willing to purchase a typical/average show if all I'm getting is the same thing I've already seen. In the case of anime, a barebones sub only release. Not that I watch dubs outside of TV/TAN, but for me I mean the on disc and pack-in extras. Even if I don't use them, I like to know I'm getting my monies worth.

[Senku]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

I still haven't really gotten into streaming all that much, even with shows like Saki and Shangri-La playing right now (still only seen a couple episodes of those). I'm hoping that someone will put DVDs out of Shugo Chara, cause I have no interest in watching all of that anime thru streaming either.

But for shows that are going to be released soon or already released in R1 (ie Heroic Age or Kurokami), I find myself only watching enough episodes to know whether or not I like the anime enough to BUY the DVDs. And in the two shows I mentioned, I'll be picking up both of them; but I only watched 3-5 episodes of each show streamed.

I'm sorry that streaming is "killing" the buyer in you. But you shouldn't look at it like that. You've seen the shows streamed, and you're only going to buy the anime that you REALLY want. Just because you know that before streaming you would have bought more shows, and now that you do watch streams you'll be picking up less shows, doesn't make you any less of a buyer, collector, or anime fan.

[Jumbo]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

I'm not into the whole streaming video thing myself, though I do have the technology to watch it through my TV etc. I have just found that I'm a lot more picky about what I'm watching in general, usually making decisions based on trailers and what I can glean from the Japanese web sites. I've gotten to a point where I'll make a decision there as opposed to watching the first 3-4 episodes or what have you, which is something I used to always do.

While part of the reason for this is due to all of the re-releases out there, I do still have a few series I'm picking up. The biggest contention I'm dealing with now though is this:

"Do I buy the DVD when it has a supposed HD master or wait on a R1 Blu-ray?"

Having finally gathered up a nice TV, receiver, surround speakers etc. I'd rather wait for a nice high quality version to drop than double dip. (I'm already going to do that with at least one show I own...)

And while there are streaming HD offers out there (X'amd) I'd still rather hold out hope on an eventual Blu-ray release and watch something else in the meantime, as opposed to paying for it twice or re-watching when I could be doing something "new."

Which is what I feel your post hit home for me. With all this new stuff continuing to expand into the streaming market, once I've seen it there, will I really want to pay to own and watch it again when I can invest my time I'd be re-watching vs. watching something completely new instead?

[sir_integra]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

Yes and no.

The big hit to anime collecting came with Netflix. No more blind buys. And fewer types of series that I'm interested in.

As far as streaming goes, I do have a subscription to CR. I got it primarily to view Gintama and that I would buy in a heartbeat. I'm also enjoying Reborn, but it has little rewatch value for me so I wouldn't purchase. I do look to streaming for those series which I would like to see but the chance of a release here is unlikely.

However, CR's Korean and Japanese dramas are another matter. These generally have rewatch value for me and I get to check out a few eps before I buy.

[brycec1701]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

For me, I still buy the shows that I am really into or love. I have been sampling several shows on Crunchy Roll. I watch the streaming stuff via my PS3, but love having the discs as I have become more of a audio/video quality snob. You just don't get great quality via streaming. Also, I often have to troubleshoot quirks with my PS3's browser or PC when the videos don't load properly.

The streaming medium will always have quirks which can happen the viewing experience. With discs, you have a lot smaller chance of experiencing technical issues.

The shows that I really watch via Crunchy Roll are ones that are not available to purchase. I love having access to finally see Galaxy Express 999. If given the opportunity to purchase it , I would in a heartbeat!

[michaelwb]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

Nope.

Keep in mind I abandoned the ways of TV and cable years ago, so I am inherently a market minority. I watch everything - DVDs, video download (iTunes and Amazon Unbox) and streaming (primarily Hulu, Netflix) - on my desktop with a larger than normal monitor with fancy video card.

In general, most of the stuff I stream (or download via iTunes ro Unbox) are TV series I'm currently following and will buy in DVD format when they come out.

For anime, the stuff I stream is generally things I wouldn't have bought but would have just rented via Netflix. Once and a while I find something I like enough to buy the DVDs too. But that is really the pleasant surprise.

Yeah, there are interesting and rare exceptions of series that you can stream legally or buy downloads of legally but aren't actually available on DVD now or anytime in the foreseeable future. Kim Possible and the later seasons of Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends come to mind.

What the matter companies don't you want my money?

*waves wallet at them*

Look at how big and fat it is? Wouldn't you like some of it?

:P

[LelouchLamperouge]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

I'm experiencing it and its effect on my buying habits.

Streaming greatly killed my interest in a good portion of series I wanted to buy. I watched a few episodes and when all was said and done, I was glad I didn't waste money on something so mediocre. Shikabane Hime is a perfect example of this. Romeo x Juliet is another. I mean, I usually have like 12-13 series plus a few movies or OVAs I want to buy in my "Future Purchase" list. However, I'm down to what 7 series, a movie and an OVA. However, that list has basically diminished. I think the reason its diminished is that R1 has moved to boxsets instead of singles and my budget has diminished from $100 a month to $75 a month I can spend on anime. Anyways, streaming (whether it be official or fansubs), has killed my interest in buying series. It's the same effect either way, realistically.

[Soufriere]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?
Mostly not. I am a collector, not as much as many on this site, but still a collector. I don't like being on the internet all the time or staring at a computer 24/7, so streaming isn't my preferred method of watching anything. What I want, I buy. The main reason I haven't bought as much as I used to is that I just don't have as much money. Lack of dubs and lack of titles that interest me are the other reasons.

What streaming HAS done is kept me from making a couple of blind buys that I would've regretted. Like Ouran.

[Njr Scrawl]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

Streaming is not killing my purchasing. Its licensee choice that is.

If Galaxy Express 999 can only be seen streamed, I'd choose time to watch that instead of buying some generic <named studio>/modern show. Someone please stream a subtitled Legend of Galactic Heroes!

Translated anime is between a rock & a hard place. Nozomi is lucky with Maria & Aria, which are fan faves in any media. But how long will they prop Nozomi up?

Gakuen Alice might - for a short while maybe. Re-mastered Tylor - for a short while maybe. Re-releases help, but how many can a smallish studio afford? Perhaps Nozomi is on borrowed time for DVD licensing & releases also.

[stfram]

Translated anime is between a rock & a hard place. Nozomi is lucky with Maria & Aria, which are fan faves in any media. But how long will they prop Nozomi up?


They didn't get lucky, they carefully analyzed their market and exploited that niche with those two titles, along with Emma.


Perhaps Nozomi is on borrowed time for DVD licensing & releases also.


Doubtful. They are entirely too careful with their licensing/marketing to let that happen. You'll likely never see a massive licensing binge from them, for example.

(Of course, I'm slightly biased since they hit every single one of my Otaku Enthusiasm Buttons with most of their releases.)

[Prede]

The only segment of fandom where I can see streaming hurting sales is the "own thousands of discs and never watch fansubs" crowd, which is a small fraction even of this board and almost nonexistent elsewhere.

Cool I'm part of a small faction :cool: . Although I don't have thousands of disks yet...

I do know what Chris means though. After watching some shows on ADV's or Funimation's sites, instead of wanting to buy the shows, I just want to finish them and that's about it. I feel no need to buy the DVD's, since I just saw it. So now I try to make my first watch on my DVD's as much as I can. That way they get some use :relief: . Sure I'll be testing out some series here and there on legal streams, but I won't finish them, that way I still have something new to watch on my DVD's. For example I watched a few epiosdes of Area 88 on Anime Networks site, but I won't finish it, instead I'll wait till I can buy the DVD's to finish it. I like watching anime better that way anyway. On my TV, with my PS3, and on DVD ;). I know I can watch streaming videos on my Ps3 on my TV, but they useally give me a problem, take forever to load, and stuff. ADV's site didn't work through my PS3 last time I checked too... It's alright once in awhile for me to watch on my PS3, but I think I'd get high blood pressure if everytime I wanted to watch some anime, I had to load the stream on my PS3, and stuff. I'm guessing with time that will work much better though, but still I enjoy the hobby of collecting. I've bought anime DVD's since 2000, got huge into it around 2004, why stop now? I'm buying more then ever this year, and even though it's expensive I'm still enjoying it, and keep finding new shows to love. I love just collecting anime, it's fun and even funner to watch something you love. Plus I bring my DVD's to my friends' and family's houses, I can't bring streams there really. So when I show people an anime, it's always on my DVD. And at the end of the day, I'm supporting the industry which is very important in my belief here...

So what I'm saying is I understand Chris, but I also purposely make it so I want to buy the DVD's anyway.

[Damius]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

Nope, in my case it even raise it. Previously, I was renting the first DVD of a series to decide if I'll buy the rest or not. Now, I don't need to rent the first dvd anymore, I watch the stream (when it is available in sub) and after that I buy the series or not. Since it is easier and I save money I buy more. (Plus of course the part releases help too.) Plus, I am a collector.

[monkeebiz]

What's the point of a simultaneous broadcast if it takes eight hours to buffer it?



Is that true or an exaggeration?

I don't stream, because my computer is ten years old and can't do it.

[Njr Scrawl]

Slow download speed, I'm lucky to get 1/2 MB, though my exchange can do 1MB, is another disincentive.

Monkeebiz, your PC (Windows98SE?) might also be a factor. My old PC, & the lower tech old hardware it can handle (no Ethernet socket & only USB 1.0) is probably a factor as well.

[stfram]

What's the point of a simultaneous broadcast if it takes eight hours to buffer it?


Is that true or an exaggeration?


It has been in the recent past for the high-profile shows when everyone is trying to watch the latest episode. The simulcasts generated some pretty impressive numbers.

Now that One Piece is on hiatus, perhaps the situation has improved?

[njchobitsfan]

Streaming has actually helped me in my buying of DVD's. I know for a fact I'm getting Spice and Wolf and Crazy Shrine Maidens when they come out because I watched a couple eps streamed. And then there are shows I'm watching streamed which I will definately not get and am happy i didn't waste my precious dollars on, i.e. Suzuka. I may be in the minority, but I won't watch a show for more then a few eps if I'm buying the show later just for the simple fact that I want to show my support for the artists and makers with my cash, and I still want to be surprised a tad as I'm watching the eps via DVD. Besides, my 50" Panasonic plasma screen hooked to my surround sound beats my 21" Dell LCD computer screen with tinny speakers hands down.

[KudosForce]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

Nope! Well, in my case, it depends on the series. If the series that I watch being streamed doesn't captivate me too much, I'll just watch it once and not bother with it.

On the other hand, if the series that I watch being streamed does interest me, I will want to buy it as soon as possible!

Of course, considering that Funimation has Fist of the North Star, you can pretty much guess which show I would like to buy first. ;)

Also, watching an entire series instead of a few episodes can help to avoid being disappointed in the long run.

As I am a collector of anime series that can greatly entertain me, it helps to know what you're getting into.

That said, I will watch more streams on Funi's site later on.

[Daniel_Perales]

The problem that I see is that there is now a large chunk of fans who want to watch anime but not actually collect it.


Well....

My take is that there are indeed fans who want to watch anime, but, it just they don't want to pay for having the privalage of keeping it.

How else can you explain it?

I've seen and personally know people who actually bring in album loads of burned DVDs and/or portable external hard-drives of all the anime (and other shows) that they have downloaded and saved right off the internet. And, a lot of these contents are already available on R1 DVDs (based on what I've seen from friends and from some of the anime con attendees that I've encountered).

Their excuse is: "Why buy the show if I already have the entire thing?"

So in short, there are a lot of anime fans out there who wants to watch anime, and there are a lot who wants to built up a collection of anime. But there seems to be many more of them who are unwilling to invest their money on building up their collection.



These are the fans that are attracted to streaming sites, because they don't want to own the series, just watch it and move on.


That I agree.


I'll be okay though. When the industry collapses I'll just keep re-watching my collection.

...Until I can't get ahold of a DVD player anymore, then I'm screwed.


That's why I still keep my LD player in good shape for the shows that I have that are still unavailable, or I haven't replaced it with a DVD version, yet.:catgirl:




Danny

[Njr Scrawl]

There are shows being streamed I really want to buy as DVDs. Galaxy Express 999 is an example. Touch should be streamed.
And I wish Viz would stream Maison Ikkoku for all those potential fans still around.

[Fencedude]

There is nothing inherently "wrong" about people who just want to watch a show once, and don't want to own every show they watch. That happens all the time, we call them "TV Watchers". The problem was, until this recent advent of streaming, there was no way for these people to watch a show other than fansubs. Even with a "free" legal stream, there is at least some advertising revenue. That, by itself, is a net improvement over the status quo. But you shouldn't start blaming people who don't want to buy DVDs of EVERYTHING THEY HAVE EVER WATCHED.

[Sensuifu]

The way out, and I should know being someone trying to make it happen, involves a number of things being developed:

1. Japanese anime needs to have international distro such as subs/streaming budgeted into their original costs, with english dubbing costs for obviously internationally marketable shows (like the next naruto, etc).

licensing costs would need to be factored in. It's also risky business considering the production might not guarantee success. A partnering company may never see ROI with that model if the production/viewership flops.


2. These companies need to use an open streaming platform like CR, etc with day and date streaming to Japan, and begin to negotiate merchandising and physical media rights separately from digital streaming rights, taking the streaming as an essentially zero-sum advertising model (i.e. earns enough to be self sufficient, but not much else).

3. They need to seriously ramp up merchandising, character goods, virtual merchandise and other forms of small-cost, low priced goods that can be marketed directly on the streaming sites.
What I'm wondering is whether or not the tie-in to merchandising is really generating revenue. Are the same people who like to stream anime free, actually spending more money on related, tangible goods even though they don't care to own the show? It seems that the overhead to maintain the infrastructure (licensing rights, servers, bandwidth, site maintenance/updates,etc.) would cost more than what the side-revenue nets from merchandising.

If mechandising and physical media rights were separate entities, is it really effective for either side to subsidize the other's costs? It could lead to either side cannabilizing for the sake of sustaining whatever operation they've got going. I don't know...but is there any real indication/evidence that today's market has buyers purchasing 'extraneous' goods for the shows they watch? I think that's a collector's mentality for the most part, and the demographics of today might not care so much about the related merchandise. I could be wrong about all this, but I'm a bit skeptical after seeing what Chris mentioned in the article and what I've noticed personally.

[something]

There is nothing inherently "wrong" about people who just want to watch a show once, and don't want to own every show they watch. That happens all the time, we call them "TV Watchers". The problem was, until this recent advent of streaming, there was no way for these people to watch a show other than fansubs. Even with a "free" legal stream, there is at least some advertising revenue. That, by itself, is a net improvement over the status quo. But you shouldn't start blaming people who don't want to buy DVDs of EVERYTHING THEY HAVE EVER WATCHED.
Absolutely. What some people don't seem to realize is just how utterly bizarre (by necessity, at least at first) the traditional model was. Want to see a show through fully legal means? Pony up $30 (msrp anwyay) a disc and watch it blind. Maybe you'd get a trailer or something. Maybe it's one of the 3% of shows that get on TV. Maybe a friend already bought the DVDs.

Being able to watch a television show without paying dozens or hundreds of dollars to do so is far more natural. Very few people are going to or can buy everything they watch in full, let alone every single episode they see. The expectation that they should/would/could just shows how out of touch the old, traditional R1 anime model was with real people's viewing habits.

[Prede]

There is nothing inherently "wrong" about people who just want to watch a show once, and don't want to own every show they watch. That happens all the time, we call them "TV Watchers". The problem was, until this recent advent of streaming, there was no way for these people to watch a show other than fansubs. Even with a "free" legal stream, there is at least some advertising revenue. That, by itself, is a net improvement over the status quo. But you shouldn't start blaming people who don't want to buy DVDs of EVERYTHING THEY HAVE EVER WATCHED.
Absolutely. What some people don't seem to realize is just how utterly bizarre (by necessity, at least at first) the traditional model was. Want to see a show through fully legal means? Pony up $30 (msrp anwyay) a disc and watch it blind. Maybe you'd get a trailer or something. Maybe it's one of the 3% of shows that get on TV. Maybe a friend already bought the DVDs.

Being able to watch a television show without paying dozens or hundreds of dollars to do so is far more natural. Very few people are going to or can buy everything they watch in full, let alone every single episode they see. The expectation that they should/would/could just shows how out of touch the old, traditional R1 anime model was with real people's viewing habits.

I'm pretty sure that's a taken already though. Most people on this site already understand and realize this. Most people on here also understand however that anime is nothing like normal American Television, and so it's not really fair to compare them. Most of those shows make their money from the adds, so DVD sales are not needed to support them. Just that alone makes it not fair to compare them. I understand that the viewing habbits of some people are watch once, don't buy, or watch before buy, and that's only natural to them, which is a lot like how they watch normal TV, but there are reasons it's like that, and reasons anime is direct to DVD. Sure the legal way to watch anime is odd here. Most anime is direct to DVD, so people can either blind buy, watch a trailer, or turn to illegal means to get a test, or the entire series or whatever. People aren't used to such an odd way to consume a medium, but you all know it's the only way to keep the industry a float. Many people who want to watch, but not buy anime are probally not aware that DVD sales are what hold up the industry (well I'm sure a bunch are and don't care or whatever). Sure there are other ways it makes money, but come on now. So yeah it's understandble that people want to watch something once and never again, or at least see it before they buy it, but that doesn't exactly make it right to turn to illegal means.

And we all know online adds on streaming shows really don't make much money. So sure at least the companies are now making a little bit more, but it's not a solution. If these people really cared about the shows they liked, maybe they'd talk with their wallets a little more, and less with their keyboards. They don't have to buy EVERY thing, but it be nice if they at least bought their favorite shows or something. Something they'd re-watch at least. Any help is better then nothing. And if they wanted to see more shows like the shows they liked, the best way to show that to the companies, would be to buy the damn thing on DVD.

And there's one HUGE difference between watching something on TV, and watching something online. The thing online will almost allways be there, so there's no need (in many people's view) to buy it. If it airs on TV, you have to either wait for a re-run, , look for it on VOD, or buy it. It's not always avaible.

(Now I really don't care what anyone does, as long as they buy the DVD's, so don't get me wrong here. I'm not attacking anyone and I hope I'm not rude or anything. Just my 2 cents. )

[something]

I'm pretty sure that's a taken already though. Most people on this site already understand and realize this.
And many don't, apparently.

Most people on here also understand however that anime is nothing like normal American Television, and so it's not really fair to compare them.
Sadly, this is irrelevant. Entertainment is entertainment, and you can't expect someone to act completely differently in their viewing habits because of behind-the-scenes economic realities (or even the legalities most of the time). Frankly, that's usually not the viewer's concern. People who care about that are us oddballs who post here and pay attention to the industry. Your average anime fan just wants to watch lots of shows - and maybe buy the good ones, or all of them, or none of them, depending on their collecting preferences and how much they value physical media (or purchased digital media, if that's an option).

So yeah it's understandble that people want to watch someting once and never again, or at least see it before they buy it, but that doesn't exactly make it right to turn to illegal means
That wasn't really the point, and since we're talking about legal streaming here it's definitely not.

[Prede]

So yeah it's understandble that people want to watch someting once and never again, or at least see it before they buy it, but that doesn't exactly make it right to turn to illegal means
That wasn't really the point, and since we're talking about legal streaming here it's definitely not.

I was talking about how before there was any legal streaming, that was about the only way to watch something before buying it on DVD. I was just commenting on it, before talking about how streaming is not the answer.

And if people want to keep watching all this anime, they better start to understand the underlying economics. It's not their concern now, but they better make it their concern if they want more anime series a year to watch/pick from. If they want the amount of anime made per year to decrease then they should keep ignoreing the economics behind it. If they really liked anime, perhaps they'd look into it by chance one day. Or maybe someone would tell them about it. That's why education about the subject is very important, and companies like Funimation have talked about that multiple times. That's why Bandai's youtube page says "buy the DVD's to support this channel". People need to learn anime is nothing like regular TV. The sooner the better. If they understand that, it would at least be a start. We need more things like Greg Aryres fansub panels IMO, related and not related to the companies.

[something]

And if people want to keep watching all this anime, they better start to understand the underlying economics. It's not their concern now, but they better make it their concern if they want more anime series a year to watch/pick from.
Understanding the underlying economics doesn't really change anything, unless you can guilt trip a couple people into buying.

For the most part, it's not a question of how many people view it and don't buy. It's a question of how many people do buy. If nobody buys a show, then it's not necessarily important the number of people who watched for free is 10 or 1,000,000. If people do buy something and it becomes a smash hit and makes loads of money, then the same applies. Putting "morality" aside, that's the interesting thing about "file sharing" versus "theft" (http://www.vincentchow.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/piracy.png) (I think we can just take the message on an intellectual/factual level, we can put aside whatever the creator's motives were). There is no inherent 1 to 1 correlation between a view and a sale, or between a view and a lost sale. The physical (or occasionally digital) item for sale is never itself lost in this case. From a purely economical standpoint, companies need to focus more on how to make sales, not how many people infringe their copyright (in a non-commercial manner). Certainly the former is informed by understanding the latter, mind you, but they're no the same thing.

Theft = direct economic impact every time, no questions asked. Watching free streams without buying any associated merchandise is closest to file sharing, with the following differences:
1) How the law views it (economically irrelevant)
2) Creator control of translation and release schedule (may be indirectly economically relevant, but hard to generalize)
3) Advertising revenue, if any (positively economically relevant)
4) Streaming cost to provider (negatively economically relevant)

And of course it's just a pure guess that people who watch legal streams won't buy the DVDs, and assumes DVDs actually come out, or assumes people wouldn't have just watched it illegally otherwise, or assumes the people would have watched it at all otherwise, or assumes... (etc).

So basically what I'm saying is that most people don't buy or watch anime because of the economics, and never will. That's not how normal people's minds work. When we sit here and talk about buying DVDs to "support the industry", most people probably think we're a bit off our rockers - they buy a show because it's entertaining. So do we, of course, but for some of us it's not necessarily our only consideration.

And of course it must always be kept in mind that we're a secondary market, and if somehow things do totally implode here, that's of secondary importance to how things fare in Japan, where anime will still be made for its original home audience. As a hardcore collector (closing in on 1200 discs now) I'm quite invested in the survival of the R1 industry, but for many fans its demise would have a relatively minor impact on anime - especially with how small the industry here has gotten lately anyway. Even if less shows get made, the impact for any given fan will be barely noticeable. Hell, we've been told that this has already happened, and yet I'm still up to my eyeballs in unwatched stuff. And always am. :sd:

[Prede]

And of course it must always be kept in mind that we're a secondary market, and if somehow things do totally implode here, that's of secondary importance to how things fare in Japan, where anime will still be made for its original home audience. As a hardcore collector (closing in on 1200 discs now) I'm quite invested in the survival of the R1 industry, but for many fans its demise would have a relatively minor impact on anime - especially with how small the industry here has gotten lately anyway. Even if less shows get made, the impact for any given fan will be barely noticeable. Hell, we've been told that this has already happened, and yet I'm still up to my eyeballs in unwatched stuff. And always am. :sd:

Oh yes I am well aware of this, and all your other points as well here. But I still think if people understood more about the econimics, they might be "guilted" as you say into buying some things. Others would think about how it effects them, and would consider buying because they want to see more anime. Maybe others would start to buy it for other reasons. There are a handful of fans out there that probally don't even understand it's illegal to watch fansubs, or think those pay-for-fansub sites are legal and supporting the industry, etc etc. I think education would improve sales, and couldn't hurt at this point. I'm not really sure why you went into the whole "theft vs file shareing" thing, as I wasn't really talking about that. But I do think that it's important to note the number of people watching a show. If only 10 people watch it, then it has no support, but if a million people want to see it, then it has support. That means those people are interested in the show. Now if you could find a way for enough of them to actually buy the DVD's, you win. But there's no way to make people buy something, when they already don't want to and others won't either. If it were before watching anime online was very popular, then a lot of those "viewers" online would have instead bought the DVD's. So therefore there is a loss of sales. While it's a given not all of the online viewers would have bought the DVD, it has to be true that a large amount of them would have, if things had not changed from 2003 until now (in regards to watching anime online). That explains the huge drop in anime DVD sales over the past couple of years.

Other factors are and were obviously at work too, and probally hurt anime sales a decent amount as well. But you can't ignore the people who used to buy DVD's, and now don't, because of the internet. So that's why people view it as a loss of sales. Of course it's taken way to long to address the problems, and I don't really think many of these people will even consider buying DVD's anymore at this point. But it can't hurt to try. And if at least some of the people who used to buy DVD's , but then switched over to watching online, were to come back to DVD's, that be great for the industry. Just another reason why "education" (although I think we need another name for it, that sounds really stupid to me) should be a little more important, and could be helpful and improve sales.

[Fencedude]

But you can't ignore the people who used to buy DVD's, and now don't, because of the internet.

This group has got to be so small as to be insignificant.

[something]

I'm not really sure why you went into the whole "theft vs file shareing" thing, as I wasn't really talking about that.
It's relevant to the numbers game. If there are 1000 DVDs on a shelf and 900 get pocketed and stolen, you're fucked. Every single number counts as a loss. If we're talking infinite replications of a digital file, particularly one that wasn't being "sold" in the sense of a DVD, numbers rapidly lose significance. So to bring it back to streaming (which is what I was getting at), if 50,000 people watch an episode for free on Funi's portal, Funi can't realistically tell themselves "Okay, let's gun for 50,000 sales! We know they're watching!" any more than they can count DLs on a torrent tracker. The potential pool of viewers for a release only available on commercial home releases is not that same 50,000. Many of the viewers are there only because it's on the internet and accessible (whether legally or not).

If it were before watching anime online was very popular, then a lot of those "viewers" online would have instead bought the DVD's. So therefore there is a loss of sales.
This logic is really problematic, for reasons outlined in many a fansub discussion in the past. And at any rate the internet IS here (bringing a lot of those people with it in the first place!), and is going nowhere, making it moot. But rather than belabor this point, and since I want to focus on streaming, I think it flows nicely into...

Just another reason why "education" (although I think we need another name for it, that sounds really stupid to me) should be a little more important, and could be helpful and improve sales.
I don't think you can or should try to "educate" your way out of the situation. If anything, the education that is most needed is for the industry to educate themselves (as I think they've gradually been doing, to their credit, if a bit too gradually) on how people want their anime. Why are so many people using the (now legit) Crunchyroll, or Funi's video portal? It's not because they suddenly learned anything about the underlying economics, or discovered a burning desire to support Funimation. It's because content holders in Japan and N America learned a bit about how most modern anime fans like to watch anime, and stepped in to deliver that and fill a role they'd long ignored at their own peril. People will watch Phantom on Funi's player or Saki on Crunchyroll because it's convenient. And maybe they'll see a banner ad advertising RxJ DVDs or toss a couple bucks at a Crunchyroll premium membership while they're at it?

So goes the theory. Time, not our speculations, will tell if the numbers pan out.

[superdry]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

I don't watch anime streamed, but I can see the sentiment. Back in the day, it was either buy blind, read reviews or people comments or after watching a trailer on series and make a judgment from that.

With broadband being more widespread nowadays, even though it has a long way to go before almost every American home as it, I can see some "fans" thinking "why buy the DVDs when I can always re-watch the series on the internet." It's the convenience factor since a good amount of people spend a lot of time on the internet each day. I also feel like the majority of modern day anime fans have this disposable attitude towards the medium. I have read and heard many a people say "I deleted X series from my HD after watching it so I can start downloading Y series."

Then again, streaming does act as a filter for people making worthwhile purchases (I regret paying $60 for the DearS boxset because it was a terrible show even though I liked the manga). Which does lead back to your point Chris of killing interest in purchasing a series if it was bad. Of course, it is hard, as something mentioned, to gauge how many people will buy a series after watching a few episodes streamed.

I really do hope that streaming does not kill the home video star, but co-exist and streaming acts as a supplement. It's great that the latest series are available essentially on demand. In an ideal world, for R1, streaming anime on the internet would be like broadcasting a TV show. The companies make a good deal of money from advertisement and, down the road, the DVDs are released. But, who knows when that'll happen and ad revenue from streaming becomes a decent source of income and, of course, licensing complicates things too. ::sigh::

Besides streaming, as I hate it besides for watching clips, I really wish a good legal DRM free download-to-own model was developed. I like the fact that Funi is releasing newly licensed shows for download before the DVD is released, but it's DRMed to hell. Also, in the event of internet outage, one still has stuff to watch to if one wants to do so to pass the time before internet comes back up.

I wouldn't be surprised if what I have said has been mentioned or rebutted already...but I didn't feel like reading all 7 pages right now as it is a little past 3AM EST.

[Bluecloud]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?

I can't believe you couldn't even imagine such a simple theory like that.

If you consumers really love anime, you should do, and let your friends do, your very best to give as much profit as you can to creators whose shows you love, instead of skimping on money and labor(you don't have to pay extra money for the shows you do not like, though). Anime's staffs are not your slaves.

Otherwise you can just sit back and wait for the doomsday of NA anime industry; in other words, get out of anime's life, you're not helping.

[Draneor]

Sadly, this is irrelevant. Entertainment is entertainment, and you can't expect someone to act completely differently in their viewing habits because of behind-the-scenes economic realities (or even the legalities most of the time).

And if USian anime fans truly feel this way, only a fool would license anything for this market. Very few shows can survive on advertising and merchandise alone. Mainly kid's shows. Anime for adults has always been a OVA market--regardless of the region. Anime is expensive to make (compared to live action content) and has little demand. It's only because of a dedicated, wealthy fanbase that it is made or licensed at all. Advertising doesn't work when the maximum potential market is in the tens of thousands. That is reality. Anime isn't Applebee's; it's the mom and pop dinner in a small town that stays in business because the same twenty people go there for lunch every day.

Honestly, the vast majority of leeches would be better off looking to domestic content. Anime just isn't designed to meet their demands.

It's because content holders in Japan and N America learned a bit about how most modern anime fans like to watch anime, and stepped in to deliver that and fill a role they'd long ignored at their own peril.

You make it sound like the industry wasn't aware that people were watching anime online for free. The problem has never been knowledge of what we were doing. I'm sure they have been quite aware of our habits for some time. The problem has been how do you pay for it (and make at least as much as the current model). No one--to my knowledge--has yet figured out a way to make streaming profitable. Not Hulu. Not Youtube. If Google can't do it, FUNimation sure as heck can't either.

I suppose conditions worsened enough that it was irrelevant that it wasn't profitable. Something had to be done. Not that it mattered, since the majority of people just went from watching fansubs to watching rips.

[something]

Honestly, the vast majority of leeches would be better off looking to domestic content. Anime just isn't designed to meet their demands.
But again, that's the thing - they don't really care. They know what they like, and they know how to get it, legally or illegally. And they'll watch it if it's in a way they want. And... well isn't that the end of the story?

Well no, not for us here, certainly. But it is for them.

You make it sound like the industry wasn't aware that people were watching anime online for free.
Huh? No I don't. Knowing how people are watching and knowing how to adapt accordingly are two different things though. And I do think that even if we say they did understand, they didn't... *understand*, if that makes sense. They spent precious years either ignoring it, or fighting all the wrong, losing battles, and only recently did they really start changing their models in serious ways (streaming, cheap sets, a few downloads here and there, near simultaneous airing, etc). Obviously some companies wanted to make these moves earlier and were stymied by various forces but I'm talking about a trans-Pacific whole-industry failure to adapt. Thankfully I like to think the bulk of that is behind us, and now it's a matter of taking all the fundamental changes they've gone through and tweaking them until they work, if they can.

[Sean_Connolly]

I'm late on all this but that was a very nice write up Chris. You make a lot of good points in there and much content to mull over.

I have to admit, I've barely touched any of the streaming stuff. I've caught some episodes of Gintama and checked out a bit of Fist of the North Star. That's about it. Yeah, I watch them on my TV as well. I may, on some level, do this on purpose because I have felt myself lean towards what you were talking about. Only it was with other shows I enjoyed collected, but starting watching on Hulu (American TV shows, Family Guy, American Dad, etc).

I really like buying anime. I always have. I want to always like buying anime. It brings me great joy to pick up a release, new or old, and have it for my own. It is a joy I've felt since I first started collecting the stuff by saving my allowance and lunch money up when I was a kid to buy an AnimEigo, Pioneer, or CPM release. I felt that joy yesterday when I found Sword of the Stranger on Blu Ray at my local retailer. "Nice! They got it in. So mine." I do this regardless of the perceived quality of the show. If I get a good deal, I'll probably buy it and judge for myself.

It is a unique joy that I don't feel with games or books. I'm not sure why. However, what I do know is that I don't want to stop just because it's available streaming. The ease of fansubbing never stopped me from purchasing shows. Streaming sure as hell won't either. All I can think of when I see the shows available for streaming is "When will they put it out on DVD/BR so I can watch it?"

Perhaps it's still that feeling of "ownership." "This is MY copy of this show." I display it on my shelf along with my library. Keep it in good condition. Keep the discs nice and clean. So forth. With streaming, it all feels so disposable. Close the browser and it's all gone. I believe gamers will (or have started to) feel this same dilemma. A feeling of ownership versus the ease of digital.

I don't know how old you have to be to be in the "old guard" but this "not quite that old" guard isn't giving up his desire for anime on physical media any time soon. =)

[TAS]

I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing what I am as mentioned in the article; streaming killing interest in purchasing?
No, but I'm one of a few people around here who watch a lot of fansubs and still buy loads of DVDs (even a few R2s).

For me streaming is not much different then a fansub. On the plus side some one might make 2 cents from the advertising, on the negative I have to be online to watch, it may be dub only, or it might not be available in Canada.

But I can see streaming affecting sales. As Something said the traditional model of people going out and buying tapes/DVDs blind is gone. Along with rentals like Netflex (BLOCKBUSTER and the like never stocked much) and used DVDs on Ebay streaming is another way for people to watch a show without having to buy it.

Even if they convert a few people from watching fansubs to watching streams, the ones who didn't buy DVDs are not going to watch the stream and then buy the DVD. Some who buy the DVD out of guilt may no longer feel the need since the stream is legal.

I think the real question is do they want streams to sell more DVDs or do they want them to replace DVDs.

If they want to sell more DVDs then streaming the whole show may be a mistake, show at least 3 eps or the first story arch (with most shows now coming with at least 12 eps a volume there are enough New content to make buying volume 1 worth while) and time it so the last streamed episode is the week before release of the DVD.

I don't see how streaming can replace DVDs, they would need to need a much larger audiance to make advertising pay what they were making on DVDs or find a way to get people to pay.

[nakimushi]

Well, I'm probably not typical, but my Crunchyroll subscription has led me to increase my purchases (well of R2J items anway).

So far I have purchased the R2 boxsets of Slam Dunk (although I doubt I would have purchased such a long show in singles), and after absoutely falling in love with Natsume Yujincho (what a great show), I should be receiving the final volume of the second series this week.

I also ended up ordering Natsu no Arashi as well. For me, replay value is more about how much I like the characters, and really liked Arashi herself. I obviously enjoyed the show more than you did.

You've been watching and collecting anime far longer than I have, so I can understand if you are reaching a collecting saturation point, and although my collection is somewhat large, I'm sure it is dwarfed by yours.

One bad thing about the streaming for me though, is that my free time is very limited (more so over the past few months) so it has slowed down my attack on my backlog of unwatched DVDs

I won't buy R2 versions of everything that I enjoy at Crunchyroll (I don't have that kind of money - I shudder at the thought of buying Gintama in R2J singles), and some things like Saki and Shangri-la will very likely be released in R1.

I'm still planning on buying anything that ends up being released in R1, e.g., FMA Brotherhood & Shippuden.

It is bothering me however, that I missed out on the first volumes of Time of Eve, because I would really like to own that show, but I'm not willing to pay $200 per volume (at least on Amazon.co.jp marketplace). :sweat: