Umineko no Naku Koro ni Discussion Thread

[Westlo]

Mystery Murder Witches Oh My.

ANN Link (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=10168)
Official Website (http://umineko.tv/web/index.html)

Here's a thread if you want to compare the anime to the source material, this way we can avoid potentially spoiling people.

Umineko Discussion Thread (Spoilers) VN Readers (http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?p=1605495#post1605495)

Plot summary (ANN):
Umineko no Naku Koro ni takes place in the year 1986, during the time frame of October 4 and October 5 on a secluded island named Rokkenjima. The head of a wealthy family named Kinzo Ushiromiya, who lives on and owns Rokkenjima, is near death, and eight of his family members arrive on the island to discuss how Kinzo's assets will be divided once he is dead. Also on the island are three family members who live there, five of Kinzo's servants, and his personal physician. After the eight family members arrive, a typhoon traps them on the island and shortly after people start to get mysteriously murdered.

Note
As usual, please try to follow these three easy forum courtesy habits when replying:
1) If you're the first person to post about an episode in any given week, please respond to the root post (this post) and indicate in the subject line which episode you're posting about.
2) If someone has already posted about an episode before you, please respond to that post (or a relevant reply to that post). Keep in the right subthread.
3) Don't use the blue "Post Reply" button because it causes your reply not to correctly inherit the subject line of the post you're replying to. Just click "Quote" to the post you want to reply to.

[ndm]

It's fantastic it's finally here - I've been waiting for this show for ages. I haven't had a chance to watch it fully yet, but from skimming through it, here are a few thoughts:
- The opening is very good even though it doesn't have quite the impact of the audio novel opening song.
- Battler's eyes are a bit big (maybe they're trying to keep him looking young?), and Eva looks skinnier than I expected, but otherwise I like the character designs. They're definitely all recognisable.
- I like that they kept the exact painting image from the games. I also like the shots of the clock and the breaking glass at the eyecatch.
- Yui Horie's way of expressing Maria's 'uuu' is good. I think it's a sound that works better heard than written down, since it's not really a word but just kind of a sigh.
- I'm not sure about the sung part of the ending, but the music at the start with the chess pieces is awesome.

(Edit: Sorry I wasn't paying attention. ^^; I've removed anything I think might have been even slightly spoilerific.)

[Fencedude]

PLEASE follow the posting directions. Its really not very hard.

[Westlo]

I just made a thread for people who've played the game and want to discuss the anime episodes while referring/comparing to the games. Please avoid all spoiler talk in here, even stuff like they left out blah blah could be a spoiler if it's used in the next episode.. etc.

Link in the root post.

[malazar]

I think this show looks interesting, but one quick question. Does it matter that I haven't seen the prior When They Cry series yet? I am assuming this is a self-contained story, but can someone verify that? Thanks.

[Westlo]

I think this show looks interesting, but one quick question. Does it matter that I haven't seen the prior When They Cry series yet? I am assuming this is a self-contained story, but can someone verify that? Thanks.

No need to have seen the prior When They Cry series.

[Fencedude]

Uh...Maria, while cute, is stupendously obnoxious.

Also the Ushiromiya family is full of dicks.

(and Kanon is totally a girl)

[malazar]

No need to have seen the prior When They Cry series.

Excellent! Thank you.

[Nork22]

Uh...Maria, while cute, is stupendously obnoxious.

Also the Ushiromiya family is full of dicks.

(and Kanon is totally a girl)

I found Maria cute too, but you're right, too much "Uuu". With the "Hau" least it's not used every second word.

I also found it rather amusing that Miki Itou is voicing one of the Ushiromiya head member.

[Sly05]

I can't say the first episode wowed me. I've never been much of a fan of pervert characters so Battler (what an unfortunate name...) didn't make a very good first impression on me. Beatrice was the most interesting part of the episode as I none of the other characters really stood out so far.

Uh...Maria, while cute, is stupendously obnoxious.
Her "uuu" was more than a tad excessive. I hope they tone it down a bit in future episodes as she has potential to be a cute character otherwise.

Given the way the episode was numbered I assume the story is going to follow a similar format as Higurashi no Naku Koro ni?

[Fencedude]

Uh...Maria, while cute, is stupendously obnoxious.
Her "uuu" was more than a tad excessive. I hope they tone it down a bit in future episodes as she has potential to be a cute character otherwise.

I get what they are trying to do with her (the stuff with her mother was actually really interesting, you don't see that much in anime) but...something that is tolerable in text can be really obnoxious in full voice. But I guess if it weren't really obnoxious, Rosa's reaction wouldn't be as believable

Given the way the episode was numbered I assume the story is going to follow a similar format as Higurashi no Naku Koro ni?

From what I understand, yes. Though I don't know how many story arcs there are thus far.

[Nork22]

Given the way the episode was numbered I assume the story is going to follow a similar format as Higurashi no Naku Koro ni?

From what I understand, yes. Though I don't know how many story arcs there are thus far.

Taking notes from Wiki, 3 story arcs has been created so far.

[BalmungHHQ]

Actually 4 story arcs, and the anime should cover all of them

[Ashyukun]

Definitely a good first episode... but I have to agree with everyone else about the Uuuuu being excessive. It was to the point that I was almost in agreement with her mother slapping her silly...

I'm hoping I have the time to follow this one... I've been enjoying (slowly) watching through Higurashi, and this looks to be every bit a good.

[Westlo]

Uuuuu spam was still annoying in the VN, but...Uu-! Maria is still made of win Uu-!

Anyway I'm glad they sped through the first part of the game, the blackmail attempt against Krauss (which was much more interesting in the VN of course) was the highlight of the first few hours in the VN. I doubt I could read the first half of Episode 1 VN again...

Being faithful to the source material would leave less anime episodes for the later VNs which are clearly superior to the first imo. Would also take a long time for a "hook" to appear which would mean new viewers would lose interest. Personally I thought they would've gone with something like that scene with Rika in ep 1 of Higuarshi.. even the Umineko manga for Episode 1 did something similar.

I'm hoping I have the time to follow this one... I've been enjoying (slowly) watching through Higurashi, and this looks to be every bit a good.

Trust me follow it, if this does justice to the VN Umineko will have one of the best antagonist/character in anime period and I doubt much better comes out this year.

Given the way the episode was numbered I assume the story is going to follow a similar format as Higurashi no Naku Koro ni?

Similar but with a few key differences.

[TheGreenMan]

Uh...Maria, while cute, is stupendously obnoxious.




She's supposed to what, 9? She sounds like she's 4 or 5.

Good episode. Nice setup. I'm not sure of the OP and ED. The operatic Nightwish style singing was nice at the start of each song.

[Suwako Moriya]

It's kind of interesting to see so many members of the same family gathered together. With some of course being married into the family. Curious that at least a few of the characters have English names.

I have a definite liking for Maria, but to be honest even I think she went a bit too far in that scene. Who knew a flower could be serious business? Hopefully there will be less of that in the future. Although her talk about Beatrice and stuff makes me wonder if there's something more to her. Not that I shouldn't be expecting that.

Speaking of that scene and her mother Rosa, I have to wonder. Given the difference in personality between Rosa during that scene and after the scene. It makes me wonder if there's something weird going on.

Also the anime is giving me the impression that Beatrice is essentially the main villain. Which means either they're misleading me or it's a case of I should see it coming a mile away.

On a final note, I like Jessica's character design for some reason.

[Suwako Moriya]

Uh...Maria, while cute, is stupendously obnoxious.

Even I can't deny that she had a rather annoying moment in this episode. Although before that moment, she didn't bother me much.

(and Kanon is totally a girl)

Hopefully you're right because when I first saw Kanon, I was about to think "Ah she's...." and then they mentioned it was a guy.

[Fencedude]

<deleted post>

DO. NOT. PROVIDE. INFORMATION.

[Moe Moe Taiga]

DO. NOT. PROVIDE. INFORMATION.

Wow...ok, I didn't tell the reason, I just said there was one. I'll delete then, sheesh.

[DiGiKerot]

<deleted post>

DO. NOT. PROVIDE. INFORMATION.

Indeed - if people really want to know this stuff themselves, there's ways for them to play the game. Otherwise, there's already a separate thread for VN players who want to do the whole comparison thing. You're going to save yourself a lot of aggravated responses if you talk about this kind of thing there, as we really want to learn about this kind of thing as it happens...

[DiGiKerot]

DO. NOT. PROVIDE. INFORMATION.

Wow...ok, I didn't tell the reason, I just said there was one. I'll delete then, sheesh.

That there is a reason is kind of a spoiler in itself, though, given that it's not uncommon for characters in anime to have that kind of trait for absolutely no reason what-so-ever.

[Moe Moe Taiga]

<n00b snip>

Indeed - if people really want to know this stuff themselves, there's ways for them to play the game. Otherwise, there's already a separate thread for VN players who want to do the whole comparison thing. You're going to save yourself a lot of aggravated responses if you talk about this kind of thing there, as we really want to learn about this kind of thing as it happens...

Sorry, I just didn't realize that people would think that was a spoiler (especially not one to warrant ALL CAPS RAGE!!!). I'll be sure to stay away from this thread (Although, in other discussion threads the source material is referenced all the time). I'm actually the one who suggested the VN readers thread.

Mods: This should probably be split and locked.This is taking away from discussion of the actual episode, sorry for going off-topic.

[Fencedude]

Indeed - if people really want to know this stuff themselves, there's ways for them to play the game. Otherwise, there's already a separate thread for VN players who want to do the whole comparison thing. You're going to save yourself a lot of aggravated responses if you talk about this kind of thing there, as we really want to learn about this kind of thing as it happens...

Exactly. In this thread, the game does not exist. Period.

[DiGiKerot]

Sorry, I just didn't realize that people would think that was a spoiler (especially not one to warrant ALL CAPS RAGE!!!).

It's more frustration than rage, methinks. It's been happening more and more recently that people will blab fairly significant things without consideration for what others may-or-may-not already know, which has been resulting in increasingly agitated responses from people who really don't want to know.

It's best to nip things in the bud by responding to even the most innocuous things rather than risk someone over-stepping the boundary at a later date, though.

In general, though, people on these boards really rather like watching anime in complete isolation to everything else related to it - there's plenty of people here who don't read manga, or play visual novels (the later not that surprising, given the vast majority don't do moonspeak), or read light novels (same as the prior). That's not to mention that these things are often remixed from their original works - something that's you assume is going to be there may not turn up, or something that you think has been missed may well turn up in a later episode.

As a rule of thumb, if something hasn't come up in the actual show, we don't want to hear about it - even if it's something that's posted on the shows official website or something. It's one of those cases where it's polite to assume that people know less about the background to a show than you do, regardless of if it's true or not. Everything that's not in the episodes broadcast thus far is a spoiler, regardless of how innocuous you may think it is.

[Ashyukun]

So, have there been any official announcements as to how long of a run this is supposed to have? Knowing how Higurashi worked and given the riddle in the show it seems like it should be at least two cours (if not more). ANN however only has 13 episode titles listed- though that of course is far from a solid indicator that it's only 1 cour (as they frequently only announce the titles- if they do at all- one cour at a time).

[HitokiriShadow]

Wow, that was a lot of characters getting introduced all at once.

Battler is annoying and made a lousy first impression. Maria is cute, but I can sympathize with her mother's irritation. Her "uuu" was really obnoxious. Rosa is a somewhat interesting character. She was the only adult in that room that was remotely sympathetic and she remains so despite slapping her daughter several times. Jessica looks nice and is voiced by Marina Inoue so I'll probably like her, but she barely made an impression on me at all this episode.

It was an okay first episode. It did a decent job of introducing the characters and some plot points, but it wasn't the kind of episode that instantly pulls you in. It was mostly people walking around with the only parts of interest being the adults occasionally screaming at or trying to blackmail each other and Maria getting slapped by her mother.

I really like the OP, it sounds like the Ar Tonelico music I've heard. By "sounds like" I mean the way Ali Project song A sounds like Ali Project Songs C-Z, so it's probably the same composer. I'll probably get the the CD for this one.

The ED was pretty meh. The first bit was kind of cool, but the rest was... not.

[Fencedude]

Rosa is a somewhat interesting character. She was the only adult in that room that was remotely sympathetic and she remains so despite slapping her daughter several times.

Yeah, I found Rosa to be remarkably sympathetic, considering. Maria seems to be a pretty difficult child in general, and coming out of that meeting filled with her horrible relatives, she snapped. Its was a bad thing for her to do, but I understand why it would happen.

Battler does need to start making a better impression if he's supposed to carry the show though.

[Moe Moe Taiga]

So, have there been any official announcements as to how long of a run this is supposed to have? Knowing how Higurashi worked and given the riddle in the show it seems like it should be at least two cours (if not more). ANN however only has 13 episode titles listed- though that of course is far from a solid indicator that it's only 1 cour (as they frequently only announce the titles- if they do at all- one cour at a time).

Animate has listed 13 BD/DVDs for Umineko, so assuming there's 2 episodes per disc it'll be 26 episodes. So 2 cour.

Edit: The first BD/DVD has been listed at cdjapan with a runtime of 50 minutes, so 2 episodes. But they could put 1 episode on the rest, lol.

[Fencedude]

So, have there been any official announcements as to how long of a run this is supposed to have? Knowing how Higurashi worked and given the riddle in the show it seems like it should be at least two cours (if not more). ANN however only has 13 episode titles listed- though that of course is far from a solid indicator that it's only 1 cour (as they frequently only announce the titles- if they do at all- one cour at a time).

Animate has listed 13 BDs for Umineko, so assuming there's 2 episodes per disc it'll be 26 episodes. So 2 cour.

They could do one episode per BD.

...if they had a death wish.

[Draneor]

Opening by Shikata Akiko. She's one of my favorite doujin artists* (and I love the song she did for the Umineko game). I really like the opening a lot.

Umineko suffers form a seriously lack of loli. Except for Maria, who also happens to be voiced by Horie Yui. Hanyuu was better.

I don't think there is one redeemable member of the Ushiromiya family. Well, except maybe Maria. Who may be annoying, but at least she's not a dick. Well, and Jessica, but I fully expect that to change before the end. Don't let me down. :)

Phew. For a second there, I was positive Maria would be the first sacrifice. That would suck.

And the ending is seriously creepy. It fits really well, but it's still creepy.

Hmm. Possible clues. No seagulls. A missing shrine, struck by lightening. 13 sacrifices and 13 members of the family, wearing a golden wing. A marked, blighted rose that disappears. A mysterious woman with a parasol. And a fucking crazy old man. I have no idea what it could all mean though.

*I guess she isn't doujin anymore...

[Edit]On my second watch, I only counted twelve characters, marked with the golden wing. Is there one missing or did I miscount?

[Draneor]

I really like the OP, it sounds like the Ar Tonelico music I've heard. By "sounds like" I mean the way Ali Project song A sounds like Ali Project Songs C-Z, so it's probably the same composer. I'll probably get the the CD for this one.

It's by Shikata Akiko (http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/list_from_code_banner.html?key=368031). If you like her work, you may also want to check out the song "Umineko no Naku Koro ni."

[Fencedude]

Opening by Shikata Akiko. She's one of my favorite doujin artists* (and I love the song she did for the Umineko game). I really like the opening a lot.

I'll have to check out the game's OP, but right now I'm liking Shimamiya Eiko's work for Higurashi a bit more. Speaking of which, when the heck is Super Scription of Data coming out? Or did I completely miss it somehow?!

[Draneor]

Speaking of which, when the heck is Super Scription of Data coming out?

It came out on 06/24. And Shimamiya Eiko *is* I've sound, so I love her too. ^^

[Draneor]

OK. For my third watch, I'm writing down which characters were marked with a golden wing.

Battler Ushiromiya.
George Ushiromiya.
Maria Ushiromiya.
Rosa Ushiromiya.
Eva Ushiromiya.
Rudolf Ushiromiya.
Jessica Ushiromiya.
Kanon.
Shanon.
Klaus Ushiromiya.
Kinzou Ushiromiya.
Genji Ronue.

Twelve again. Am I missing someone? It is interesting that three of them are servants and presumably not related to the family.

[Fencedude]

Twelve again. Am I missing someone? It is interesting that three of them are servants and presumably not related to the family.

Possibly someone we haven't met quite yet?

And there is the woman who isn't allowed to wear the wing, that would make 13.

[Draneor]

And there is the woman who isn't allowed to wear the wing, that would make 13.

True, but none of those that married in have the wing. Hideyoshi, for example, is wingless. As is Kirie. Granted, knowing Ryukishi07, I'm chasing a false lead. ^^U

[Fencedude]

Granted, knowing Ryukishi07, I'm chasing a false lead. ^^U

Considering that, even the false leads will have false leads.

Its way, WAAAAAY too early to be making any assumptions.

Imagine if you tried to guess what was actually going on in Higurashi from the events of episode 1!

[Suwako Moriya]

Battler does need to start making a better impression if he's supposed to carry the show though.

True. Although I'd like to know what drugs were taken when the guy was named by whatever family member named him.

[Draneor]

Imagine if you tried to guess what was actually going on in Higurashi from the events of episode 1!

I think that's part of the fun though.^^

[Ty]

I think it's going to take me a few episodes to get used to this cast. I found myself missing the Higurashi cast the whole time, though that was no fault of this show at all. The cast of Umineko seems every bit as interesting. Maria, while cute, is a wee bit touched. I have this feeling the tsundere cousin is going to be the most normal female in the entire cast, at least until she goes off the deep end unexectedly at some point. It has to happen given which show this is.

It's too soon to tell really, but the story seems promising. I thought the production values were great too, particularly given that it wasn't HD. Umineko seems destined to be a standout this season. The sentiment I've been seeing around the internet is that this season seems weak, and I don't understand where that opinion is coming from because the majority of the shows premiering this month all look great to me.

[Suwako Moriya]

The sentiment I've been seeing around the internet is that this season seems weak, and I don't understand where that opinion is coming from because the majority of the shows premiering this month all look great to me.

To be honest, I've seen that sentiment from some almost every season. It's reached the point of being robotic. As such I don't pay it much mind. Then again it might have to do with the way I treat each season. I tend to focus on the shows I like each season. At the same time, I'm not trying to fulfill some quota.

[HitokiriShadow]

The sentiment I've been seeing around the internet is that this season seems weak, and I don't understand where that opinion is coming from because the majority of the shows premiering this month all look great to me.

I've seen this assertion made every season for the past several years, and it rarely makes any sense.

[Fencedude]

The sentiment I've been seeing around the internet is that this season seems weak, and I don't understand where that opinion is coming from because the majority of the shows premiering this month all look great to me.

I've seen this assertion made every season for the past several years, and it rarely makes any sense.

Every anime season is the WORST SEASON OF ANIME EVER.

[Draneor]

Every anime season is the WORST SEASON OF ANIME EVER.

Quoted for truth. If you want to enjoy anime, there is always something to watch. While I love the shows I've seen over the years, I try to not be chained to the past. Nostalgia doesn't have to be a death sentence.

But really, it's more that it's just internet-cool to hate what's new and popular.

[Ty]

Good points made by everybody. I guess the only reason I even felt it was noteworthy is because I tend to get into the Summer/Winter seasons more than Spring/Fall which sort of runs against the "norm" of Fall/Spring being the blockbuster seasons.

[Westlo]

The sentiment I've been seeing around the internet is that this season seems weak, and I don't understand where that opinion is coming from because the majority of the shows premiering this month all look great to me.

It's because these idiots compare the minor seasons in Winter and Summer to the blockbuster Spring and Fall seasons. They don't seem to realize that Summer and Winter seasons are pretty much only replacing shows that aired for one cour during Spring and Fall respectively.

[Ashyukun]

I haven't found this one to be weak at all so far... there's several very good shows continuing on from Spring and a number of new ones that I'll quite happily follow. And there's likely to be more that I'd like to follow than I'll have time for, so that's enough to count it as a 'good' season for me. If ever one comes along where out of the shows airing there's not at 5 or 6 that I'm interested enough in to take the time to watch, then I'll consider it a 'bad' season...

[Buster Blader 126]

I finally got around to it today.

A big character intro episode. Battler seems like a perv, but with two gorgeous girls in the vicinity, I can't really blame him too much, despite his exaggerated actions. Maria's uuu-ing got a little annoying during the rain scene, and I also find it to be rather excessive for this episode. She's still cute as a button, though. :)

I anticipate the Beatrice aspect of the show to be very intriguing. With the basic groundwork set for the most part, I can proceed to wait for what lies ahead.

My hopes for this show being good/enjoyable is actually fairly high, and I'm one who tends to not get his hopes up for any show, no matter how much I get into it at the start. Based on how Higurashi Kai turned out, I'm thinking that Studio Deen will make a good attempt at taking good care of this show - at least I hope they will. Plus, having been blown away by When They Cry doesn't help, either.

I'm hoping that this summer season will bring me back into it. I've been struggling to follow shows since the Winter, no matter how pumped I was for them. (Hell, only now am I resuming Clannad After Story, and it was my 2nd-most anticipated show of the Fall 2008 season!) Not only is this show airing, but new Haruhi episodes are coming out, as well as Spice and Wolf S2 (I LOVES HOLO/HORO). I haven't been this pumped for a season in quite some time.

[Nork22]

While I didn't get a lot of what's been said, it was still rather creepy how Maria read the letter from Beatrice to the entire family. Also I'm rather thankful I didn't get attached to some of the cast members as the curse hit them. I fact I actually laughed considering the scene leading up to the event. :)

[Westlo]

Ah they kept the Golden Slaughterer bgm for First Twilight, awesome, though it didn't get much playtime sadly. Nice to see more VN music used throughout as well, good to see the chessboard thinking scene with Kyrie was kept as well as Kinzo's talk with Natsuhi.

[Fencedude]

Maria reading the letter was definitely the highlight of the episode.

That being said, they aren't wasting much time, six people in 1 episode? They aren't going to have much of a cast left at that rate.

And Shannon's fate was certainly sealed quick enough.

[aku.chan]

Maria can be creepy. Very, very creepy. Plus she has fangs.

I was surprised by the number of deaths, I expected the family to get taken out one by one, Ten Little Indians style.

[DiGiKerot]

Maria reading the letter was definitely the highlight of the episode.

That being said, they aren't wasting much time, six people in 1 episode? They aren't going to have much of a cast left at that rate.


Presuming that it's going to follow the Higurashi plot-arc style as the episode numbering suggests, they don't have to have much of the cast left given they'll probably be looking to have them all killed within the next three or four episodes :sd:

As long as they vary which six get slaughtered at this point in future plot arcs, I don't really see it as a problem.

[Fencedude]

Presuming that it's going to follow the Higurashi plot-arc style as the episode numbering suggests, they don't have to have much of the cast left given they'll probably be looking to have them all killed within the next three or four episodes :sd:

As long as they vary which six get slaughtered at this point in future plot arcs, I don't really see it as a problem.

Well yeah, I kinda felt that that went without saying.

As for Maria, aku mentioned her fangs, which is something I was going to bring up. Those are not 'cute' fangs.

[Ashyukun]

As for Maria, aku mentioned her fangs, which is something I was going to bring up. Those are not 'cute' fangs.
I dunno, they're kind of cute in an evil kind of way.

This went about the way I was expecting it to... though I kind of figured we'd lose more characters in one shot than that. Didn't expect the stuff with Shannon though. Maria is quite suitably creepy- and it rocks.

[Fencedude]

I dunno, they're kind of cute in an evil kind of way.

I expect her to chomp into someone's neck

[Sly05]

I enjoyed this episode much more than the first; probably because it didn't waste time getting into the Beatrice stuff. The characters still aren't doing much for me though a good portion of them have already been offed for this iteration. Maria reading Beatrice's letter, complete with her "insane" face, was awesome.

[Fencedude]

I enjoyed this episode much more than the first; probably because it didn't waste time getting into the Beatrice stuff. The characters still aren't doing much for me though a good portion of them have already been offed for this iteration. Maria reading Beatrice's letter, complete with her "insane" face, was awesome.

Its also worth noting that Maria's entire demeanor and way of speaking changed while reading that letter.

[Ashyukun]

It's also worth noting that Maria's entire demeanor and way of speaking changed while reading that letter.
Probably most notably for it being blessedly largely devoid of "Uuuuuu"....

[Moe Moe Taiga]

-OP is great, almost as good as the OP for the Visual Novel.
-Wow...they certainly played Kinzo's crazy card...he's scary.
-Nice Boat...
-Oh George, why must you take Battler's lines?
-Non-tsundere Kugimiya Rie sounds amazing :)
-What, no Nanjo intro...bastards.
-Creepy portrait sound effects...lol.
-Glad to see they used the same Beatrice protrait.
-Eva...with a fan? Well, it's kinda hot actually.
-Natsuhi moeeeee.
-Sweet, they using the Glass-breaking thing as an eyecatch.
-Yay picnic! But where's Shannon :(.
-Seriously loving Horie as Maria, she executes the Uuu-'s greatly.
-Rosa is teh super-mom, in case you didn't know.
-ED is kinda weird, but I think I'll grow to like it.

All in all it was a pretty good episode. They missed some stuff (I'll discuss that in the VN readers thread), but the fact is it's an adaptation. It would be impossible for them to put everything in there, it's a 40+ hour story and they only have <13 hours. But they managed to make it quite enjoyable, even to people who have read it before.

[Moe Moe Taiga]

-Still loving the OP. (Especially when Maria grins)
-Rena-Maria?
-"I'll probably die tonight". I loled, it was too sudden and the close-up didn't help.
-I now wish I were George's arm.
-Yay....VN BGM (Kinda in the wrong spot, but still awesome).
-Higurashi cameo :P
-DEEN executed the First Twilight in a way that passes my expectations. They showed how gruesome it was (Yea, there was some shadows that covered up some of it, but it was way better than I was expecting).
-Poor Shannon-chan :(.

The pacing was far better this time around, I noticed far fewer exclusions than the last episode. I'm hoping the pacing stays this way for the rest of the series.

[HitokiriShadow]

Oh wow, things sure picked up quickly in this episode.

Maria looked and sounded absolutely evil when she read the letter. And then the body count starts racking up astoundingly quick. I was expecting them to go down one or two at a time. I wouldn't have been too terribly surprised at three or even four. But six?

[Ty]

And then the body count starts racking up astoundingly quick. I was expecting them to go down one or two at a time. I wouldn't have been too terribly surprised at three or even four. But six?

Considering the huge cast it wasn't too surprising. Introducing nearly 20 characters in episode 1 for a show of this type usually means a handful of them are going to get tossed to the wolves right away. A pity what happened to Shannon though. It sets up some pretty believable angst down the road, and the whole event will undoubtedly cause the remaining family members to suspect and turn on each other now.

I'm sure the body count will be lower from now on, unless the cast gets expanded again to compensate. Personally I'm still not liking this as much as I liked Higurashi right from the beginning. The characters are just not as personable or likable yet.

[TheGreenMan]

Poor poor Shannon. I figured she would die after the glasses guy gave her the ring and said "Give me your answer tomorrow."

Oh, yeah, the way Maria looked while reading the letter was totally evil.

[Fencedude]

Poor poor Shannon. I figured she would die after the glasses guy gave her the ring and said "Give me your answer tomorrow."

Oh, yeah, the way Maria looked while reading the letter was totally evil.

They killed the rarest of creatures.

A Kugimiya Rie character with tits.

[Nork22]

They killed the rarest of creatures.

A Kugimiya Rie character with tits.

All for the better. Who knows what crazy anomalies it would have cause to the universe if it were allowed to live.

[Ty]

They killed the rarest of creatures.

A Kugimiya Rie character with tits.

It was her own fault for going against the natural order of things.

[tadakichi]

-What, no Nanjo intro...bastards.


Yeah, I noticed that too. An oversight by the production team, or something more? It's not like they didn't have an opportunity; they could have easily fit him in right after Genji. I suppose he's the odd man out among the eighteen in that he's neither a servant nor a family member.

[tadakichi]

Personally I'm still not liking this as much as I liked Higurashi right from the beginning. The characters are just not as personable or likable yet.

Higurashi didn't throw 18 characters at you in the first episode, though. It's hard to establish memorable characters when there's so much competition for screen time. The focus seems to be on the grandchildren, though, and I'd agree that they're a lot less likable than the main Higurashi cast at this stage.

[Draneor]

Wow. They didn't waste any time. Six at once. It was nice to see Maria go in Oyashiro-mode too. Kind of sucks Shannon died though.

Based on the blood on door, I wonder if that charm on Natsuhi's actually worked? It almost seems like she should have been the seventh. Unless... Nah couldn't be.

They killed the rarest of creatures.

A Kugimiya Rie character with tits.

That's because such a character is an offense against Nature herself. Although Kamyuu was also well-endowed (but also only thirteen).

[A]nd I'd agree that they're a lot less likable than the main Higurashi cast at this stage.

If any member of the Ushiromiya family was likable, I think it would sort of defeat the point.^^U

[Suwako Moriya]

Maria reading the letter was definitely the highlight of the episode.

Definitely. Although I'm now conflicted between thinking that Maria got sort of possessed vs thinking she had a personality change.

[Suwako Moriya]

They killed the rarest of creatures.

A Kugimiya Rie character with tits.

It was her own fault for going against the natural order of things.

True, but even knowing the risks of such a character, it would have been nice to have more time to study such a rare find. Purely for research purposes of course.

[Westlo]

[A]nd I'd agree that they're a lot less likable than the main Higurashi cast at this stage.

If any member of the Ushiromiya family was likable, I think it would sort of defeat the point.^^U

I think it's more a case of too many characters at once than not being likable. *searches for more Sailor Natsuhi fanart*

[Fencedude]

[A]nd I'd agree that they're a lot less likable than the main Higurashi cast at this stage.

If any member of the Ushiromiya family was likable, I think it would sort of defeat the point.^^U

I think it's more a case of too many characters at once than not being likable. *searches for more Sailor Natsuhi fanart*

Some of them definitely have potential, we just...don't know them very well yet.

[Suwako Moriya]

Some of them definitely have potential, we just...don't know them very well yet.

Even then, I find myself at the very least liking Jessica and Maria. Well, Jessica is helped by her figure and Maria by her cuteness among other things.

On a side note, there are quite a few characters I ended up liking before I got to know them. Whether or not, I still liked them after I got to know them better is another story.

Heck some of the characters I end up liking are ones with no real development. For some strange reason I'm capable of liking both characters that are developed and characters with none-existent development. That's a general statement geared towards both anime and other mediums such as games.

[Rhodes]

no i.d.-able corpse no death. some of those bodies had faces disfigured... are they really dead?

a bunch of people stuck on an island... reminds me of the AC novel "Ten Little Indians" which I read as a kid...

[HitokiriShadow]

I think it's more a case of too many characters at once than not being likable. *searches for more Sailor Natsuhi fanart*

Some of them definitely have potential, we just...don't know them very well yet.

Most of the women come off as decent people (Rosa, Battler's mother, Natsuhi) and Battler's father seemed like a decent guy when he wasn't trying to blackmail his brother for a piece of the gravy train.

[musouka]

Most of the women come off as decent people (Rosa

Really? The most screen time she got was beating the shit out of her daughter. I love Rosa and all, but that's not really what I'd call decent.

[DiGiKerot]

Most of the women come off as decent people (Rosa

Really? The most screen time she got was beating the shit out of her daughter.

Isn't that what made her popular :sd:

But, yeah, I'd agree that it's really probably just a case of them having introduced too many characters in too short a period of time, presumably so they could rush into establishing the core of the series. Impressions will probably change greatly as the show goes on, but then that's pretty much what the *Naku Koro ni series does.

[HitokiriShadow]

Most of the women come off as decent people (Rosa

Really? The most screen time she got was beating the shit out of her daughter. I love Rosa and all, but that's not really what I'd call decent.

Well, yeah, she's not exactly the model mother. Perhaps "decent person" wasn't quite the right words to use for her, but I would qualify that like I did for Battler's father and say that she seems like a decent person other than the child abuse, and she even came across sympathetically in how that aspect was portrayed.

[Sly05]

Two more people get killed off and we find out that Maria watches Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. That explains a lot. Maria's facial expressions during her insanity fits continue to be hilarious.

[angelx03]

Two more people get killed off and we find out that Maria watches Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. That explains a lot. Maria's facial expressions during her insanity fits continue to be hilarious.

And not to mention she's competing against Light for epic scribble writing. :sweat:

[aku.chan]

Battler's pretty smart when he's not distracted by boobs.

[Fencedude]

So...its pretty obvious at this point that Beatrice is possessing Maria. Why is no one noticing that she has major personality shifts?

Also, Eva's a bitch but...yeah. Oh well.


Battler, thinking logically is just going to get you all killed!

[TheGreenMan]

How does Maria know so much about the occult? She's a little kid. Also, why is no one noticing that she's BATSHIT CRAZY??? Especially Battler, who's playing Sherlock Holmes. Don't you know that Maria is FUCK CRAZY?

[Fencedude]

How does Maria know so much about the occult? She's a little kid. Also, why is no one noticing that she's BATSHIT CRAZY??? Especially Battler, who's playing Sherlock Holmes. Don't you know that Maria is FUCK CRAZY?

Battler (at least in this iteration) is suffering from a terminal case of skepticism.

And I mean that quite literally.

[musouka]

Why is no one noticing that she has major personality shifts?

Because the part where they talk about it in the game is so boring that it caused my friend to call me up just to rant about it.

EDIT: As far as Maria knowing about the occult, it was mentioned back in episode one, she's a huge fan. She had premade scorpion charms, for crying out loud.

[Fencedude]

Why is no one noticing that she has major personality shifts?

Because the part where they talk about it in the game is so boring that it caused my friend to call me up just to rant about it.

EDIT: As far as Maria knowing about the occult, it was mentioned back in episode one, she's a huge fan. She had premade scorpion charms, for crying out loud.

Yeah, her knowledge of the occult isn't a big deal, but the fact that a little girl with constant (and noticible and REALLY OBNOXIOUS) vocal ticks suddenly loses them, starts talking like an adult and cackling at highly inappropriate moments (like after the death of her mother!) is just totally not worth anyone mentioning.

Oh well, they have to fail miserably the first time or there'd be no story.

[Lailah]

Why is no one noticing that she has major personality shifts?

Because the part where they talk about it in the game is so boring that it caused my friend to call me up just to rant about it.

EDIT: As far as Maria knowing about the occult, it was mentioned back in episode one, she's a huge fan. She had premade scorpion charms, for crying out loud.

your friend must have a minor cause of ADHD

[musouka]

your friend must have a minor cause of ADHD

No, she's actually quite patient. Much more than I am, considering it took me about six months to get through the game version of the first two episodes.

[Westlo]

your friend must have a minor cause of ADHD

No, she's actually quite patient. Much more than I am, considering it took me about six months to get through the game version of the first two episodes.

I guess you blitzed through Episode 3 than? Seen the brand new OP for Episode 5? Shippertastic.

[musouka]

I guess you blitzed through Episode 3 than? Seen the brand new OP for Episode 5? Shippertastic.

No, I meant it took me six months to get through the material the first two anime eps covered. Once I got to the other games, it was smooth sailing.

Also, the new OP makes me a happy, happy woman.

[Westlo]

I guess you blitzed through Episode 3 than? Seen the brand new OP for Episode 5? Shippertastic.

No, I meant it took me six months to get through the material the first two anime eps covered. Once I got to the other games, it was smooth sailing.

Also, the new OP makes me a happy, happy woman.

Ah my bad I misread that and yeah it took me a while to get through the events up until the first twilight as well. Everything after that except for some zzzzz parts at the start of Episode 2 was smooth sailing. Episode 3 was the most engaging one imo.

[Suwako Moriya]

So...its pretty obvious at this point that Beatrice is possessing Maria.

Yeah, that's definitely been made quite clear. It's rather curious to go from a Maria that threw a fit in the first episode to a Maria that was a bit scary in the second episode to one that's being quite crazy in third episode.


In any case, going by the idea that Beatrice is possessing Maria, it makes me even more confident that Beatrice is definitely evil. Then again the whole "Making a deal with the Witch" thing already convinced me of that.

As it reminds me of the whole "Making a deal with a/the Devil" thing in some stories and we all know that has never lead to anything good. Ok, there are probably a few exceptions, but that's just how things are.

Battler, thinking logically is just going to get you all killed!

True, but to be honest I'm not really sure it matters. Depending on what magical powers Beatrice has, it might be impossible to do anything against her.

[Ty]

Well, Maria is......... interesting. I assume the reason nobody was especially phased by her insanity is because she's an odd duck to begin with and probably always was. Love her facial contortions though. It's like she's a possessed porcelain doll. The little bit of trim on the bottom of her dress is semi-transparent. I love it when animators include little details like that.

Battler seems like like he's +50 Intelligence over Keiichi already and it was interesting to see him go to bat with Maria's crazy ass mother. I'm actually kind of glad she got offed this episode. Wow what a bitch. It seems like they are setting things up so the cast is primarily the younger characters now, but how the servants will fit into things is still unclear.

[Fencedude]

Battler seems like like he's +50 Intelligence over Keiichi already and it was interesting to see him go to bat with Maria's crazy ass mother. I'm actually kind of glad she got offed this episode. Wow what a bitch. It seems like they are setting things up so the cast is primarily the younger characters now, but how the servants will fit into things is still unclear.

K1 was actually pretty smart, though the first season did a bad job of showing it.

Battler's brains are almost a liability at the moment though.

Edit: Oh, and that wasn't Maria's mom, Maria's mom is Rosa, who died in the First Twilight. Eva is...George's mom. I think...

...I think I need a flowchart.

Edit^2: And I'm not going to go looking because of spoilers. Just to make that clear.

[DiGiKerot]

Battler's brains are almost a liability at the moment though.


Pretty much. They guy over thinks everything.


Edit: Oh, and that wasn't Maria's mom, Maria's mom is Rosa, who died in the First Twilight. Eva is...George's mom. I think...

Yeah, Eva is Georges mom.

[Ty]

Edit: Oh, and that wasn't Maria's mom, Maria's mom is Rosa, who died in the First Twilight. Eva is...George's mom. I think...

Now that I think about it, yes you're right about that. Makes me wonder how George turned out to be so mild mannered. Out of all the characters Maria strikes me as the most interesting, even without being possessed. I can't help but wonder what made her so odd, or if her mother smacked her around like that often.

[HitokiriShadow]

More deliciously evil Maria. Oh, and I just noticed that she's watching Higurashi.

Battler has also suddenly become a much more likable and interesting character. That resemblance to Phoenix Wright is definitely not a coincidence.

[HitokiriShadow]

So...its pretty obvious at this point that Beatrice is possessing Maria. Why is no one noticing that she has major personality shifts?


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. This goes a little beyond a slight change in behavior. She knows many things that no child her age should know, and in some cases that no one should know period, things that should make her incredibly suspicious regardless of anything else. And then there's the little thing where she looks and sounds like she's really wants to be eating the flesh off their faces right at that very moment. She's not exactly hiding her malicious intent.

[Suwako Moriya]

More deliciously evil Maria. Oh, and I just noticed that she's watching Higurashi.

I wonder if we can use that as evidence that Higurashi is a bad influence. Remember if you let your young girl watch Higurashi then she might develop a case of crazy.

[HitokiriShadow]

More deliciously evil Maria. Oh, and I just noticed that she's watching Higurashi.

I wonder if we can use that as evidence that Higurashi is a bad influence.

Yeah, that fact that she's watching that might explain her odd speech ticks and her sudden personality shifts. Anyone who lists the Higurashi cast as their childhood heroes is going to be a little messed up.

[Fencedude]

More deliciously evil Maria. Oh, and I just noticed that she's watching Higurashi.

I wonder if we can use that as evidence that Higurashi is a bad influence.

Yeah, that fact that she's watching that might explain her odd speech ticks and her sudden personality shifts. Anyone who lists the Higurashi cast as their childhood heroes is going to be a little messed up.

Anime is a bad influence on the youth!

*waves cane around*

[Suwako Moriya]

Anyone who lists the Higurashi cast as their childhood heroes is going to be a little messed up.

True. Also I have a theory that if the creator works on a third series, that it too will have characters with crazy eyes and distorted faces. I have no idea why I'm assuming this.

[Draneor]

So the charm wasn't the reason...

Also, Maria likes to watch Higurashi <3. Although it's a weird one where Hanyuu doesn't have horns. ;_;

[tadakichi]

Anyone who lists the Higurashi cast as their childhood heroes is going to be a little messed up.

True. Also I have a theory that if the creator works on a third series, that it too will have characters with crazy eyes and distorted faces. I have no idea why I'm assuming this.

Funny that you should say that, since Ryuukishi07 is currently working with Key on their upcoming project, Rewrite. I'm imagining a cross between Higurashi and Clannad, which is dumb because the guy can probably write more than just horror and he's only one of three writers anyway. It's still fun to imagine...

It would be a while before any anime adaptation, though, since the game doesn't even have a release date yet.

[Ty]

Funny that you should say that, since Ryuukishi07 is currently working with Key on their upcoming project, Rewrite. I'm imagining a cross between Higurashi and Clannad, which is dumb because the guy can probably write more than just horror and he's only one of three writers anyway. It's still fun to imagine...

It would be a while before any anime adaptation, though, since the game doesn't even have a release date yet.

This is the first I've heard of this news, which I'm taking as really awesome.

[Suwako Moriya]

Funny that you should say that, since Ryuukishi07 is currently working with Key on their upcoming project, Rewrite.

Ah, yes, I've heard of that. Well, mainly I heard of it being announced and that he's involved. Although I haven't been keeping up with the progress.

I'm imagining a cross between Higurashi and Clannad, which is dumb because the guy can probably write more than just horror and he's only one of three writers anyway.

Or alternatively, just imagine how different each arc in the Kanon anime would have ended. Uguu would suddenly take on a whole new meaning.

In all seriousness, I wonder if he would eventually considering doing a none-horror story. Or alternative he could be randomly throwing a dart at a board in order to decide what animal should be crying next.

[TheGreenMan]

Ooooh...that last part was creepy as hell.

[Sly05]

Someone finally realized that Maria's been acting strange. You mean the crazy facial expressions and maniacal laughing never gave it away before?

Kanon summons Rena's cleaver and tries to take on Beatrice. Unfortunately, this is only episode 4 so s/he gets promptly killed off. The swarm of butterflies and the flash of Beatrice's portrait was pretty cool.

The conclusion was reminiscent of Blair Witch project, but a very creepy way to handle that scene. I don't know if I'd want to hang around Maria anymore...

[Draneor]

Best part of this episode was seeing Battler hit Maria. Unfortunately, Kanon has to try to play the hero and get himself killed. My initial guess was Natsuhi as the murderer, but I guess I'll go with Maria now.

So Battler did have the charm after all... But did it work or didn't it? This is a terrible show to watch weekly. ^^U

Another thing that doesn't make sense is the poem. It talks about twilight, but yet everyone is getting killed on the same night. Unless I should interpret twilight as hour?

[Fencedude]

Natsuhi should have blown the creepy girl's head off.

That being said, Maria was pretty awesomely crazy this episode.

And Kanon? You are no Rena.

[HitokiriShadow]

Hey, Jessica has a few brain cells! She finally realized that maybe Maria isn't acting quite right.

Maria is hilarious though. Especially when she's acting like a complete psychopath and everyone else is acting as if its completely normal.

[Ty]

Hey, Jessica has a few brain cells!

It's the first useful observation she's had in the show so far. I was wondering when she was going to stop being window dressing.

[TheGreenMan]

I noticed something. Is anyone noticed where in the people were stabbed in the room? Two were stabbed in the knee and lower leg? Why? Their faces were ripped off so why stab them in such weird places? Or is Maria so short, she only get them there (assuming she's the murderer?).

Edit: Another thing: Why were the faces ripped off three servants, and first victims, but not Kanon, Eva and her husband? Errgh. Maybe I'm overanalyzing this.

[Ty]

Edit: Another thing: Why were the faces ripped off three servants, and first victims, but not Kanon, Eva and her husband? Errgh. Maybe I'm overanalyzing this.

Considering the creator, I think you are supposed to be over-analyzing everything. ;)

[Fencedude]

Did anyone else note that Eva and Shannon seemed to have the eagle tattooed on their arm/leg? I find that to be odd.

As for the killings, the mutilations on the first set of victims is almost definite a way of hiding something. The stabbings in the lower leg are also very suspicious, but without more info its hard to come to any firm theories.

[Draneor]

It's sold out (http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/goods/goods_detail.html?KEY=NEOGDS-9252). We're all doomed.

I noticed something. Is anyone noticed where in the people were stabbed in the room? Two were stabbed in the knee and lower leg? Why?

I believe the epitaph referenced where the injury would occur.

[The Alaskan Assassin]

Two more people get killed off and we find out that Maria watches Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. That explains a lot. Maria's facial expressions during her insanity fits continue to be hilarious.

naa, we've known that since episode 2. ;)

I find the OP horribly awesome. So much so, I bought the damned thing.

[TheGreenMan]

Two more people get killed off and we find out that Maria watches Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. That explains a lot. Maria's facial expressions during her insanity fits continue to be hilarious.

naa, we've known that since episode 2. ;)

I find the OP horribly awesome. So much so, I bought the damned thing.

I love the Phoenix Wright parody at the end of OP. At least, I think it's a parody.

[tadakichi]

I noticed something. Is anyone noticed where in the people were stabbed in the room? Two were stabbed in the knee and lower leg? Why?

I believe the epitaph referenced where the injury would occur.

Yeah, it goes like this:

Fourth Twilight = stabbed in the head (Eva and Hideyoshi)
Fifth Twilight = stabbed in the chest (Kanon)
Sixth Twilight = stabbed in the stomach (Genji)
Seventh Twilight = stabbed in the knee (Nanjo)
Eighth Twilight = stabbed in the leg (Kumasawa)

The First Twilight obviously refers to the initial six murders. It's less clear what the next two represent.

[tadakichi]

I find the OP horribly awesome. So much so, I bought the damned thing.

I love the Phoenix Wright parody at the end of OP. At least, I think it's a parody.

I'm all for paying homage to Phoenix Wright, but Battler brings his arm down from above the shoulder, rather than up from below the shoulder as Phoenix does. The only real similarity is the pointing finger, which isn't exactly uncommon.

Though I have to say the entire premise of Umineko is uncannily similar to the Remote Island Syndrome arc of Haruhi, which did parody Phoenix Wright.

[Moe Moe Taiga]

I believe the epitaph referenced where the injury would occur.

Yeah, it goes like this:

Fourth Twilight = stabbed in the head (Eva and Hideyoshi)
Fifth Twilight = stabbed in the chest (Kanon)
Sixth Twilight = stabbed in the stomach (Genji)
Seventh Twilight = stabbed in the knee (Nanjo)
Eighth Twilight = stabbed in the leg (Kumasawa)

The First Twilight obviously refers to the initial six murders. It's less clear what the next two represent.

It's actually like this:

First Twilight = Krauss, Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa, Gohda, and Shannon
Second Twilight = Eva and Hideyoshi
Third Twilight = No Murders
Fourth Twilight = Kinzo
Fifth Twilight = Kanon
Sixth Twilight = Genji
Seventh Twilight = Nanjo
Eigth Twilight = Kumasawa

[Suwako Moriya]

Maria is like dedicated to being crazy. Right now I'm blaming it on Beatrice, but for all I know Beatrice could have little to do with it.

Natsuhi is definitely on edge and her actions are likely to screw everyone over in the end....

On a side note, I was wondering why we had two episode 4 sub threads. Come to find out some episode 4 posts are buried in the episode 3 sub thread...

[Ashyukun]

Maria's phone call was more than a little bit creepy... this show definitely does a good job of just being spooky in general. That, and Maria standing looking at the wall at the end reminded me altogether too much of the end of Blair Witch Project. :P

[Fencedude]

Hmm...rewatching episode 1.

I notice that when each character's name box pops up, characters that can wear the One Winged Eagle are indicated as such. The ones who can are of course blood Ushiromiyas, but also, for some reason, Genji, Kanon and Shannon, but not the other servants. Very interesting that.

[Westlo]

Hmm...rewatching episode 1.

I notice that when each character's name box pops up, characters that can wear the One Winged Eagle are indicated as such. The ones who can are of course blood Ushiromiyas, but also, for some reason, Genji, Kanon and Shannon, but not the other servants. Very interesting that.

It's not really a spoiler since it's stated in the game and also probably on the umineko website... but just in case.

Kinzo's direct servants are allowed to wear the One Winged Eagle

[Fencedude]

Hmm...rewatching episode 1.

I notice that when each character's name box pops up, characters that can wear the One Winged Eagle are indicated as such. The ones who can are of course blood Ushiromiyas, but also, for some reason, Genji, Kanon and Shannon, but not the other servants. Very interesting that.

It's not really a spoiler since it's stated in the game and also probably on the umineko website... but just in case.

Kinzo's direct servants are allowed to wear the One Winged Eagle

Ah, I see. That makes sense.

Uhh...I still don't see why Shannon tattooed it onto her leg, but whatever. Its sexy.

[Fencedude]

Ok, rewatch.

Kanon and Shannon's eyes are the exact same shade of blue. Possibly meaningless, but interesting.

Eva is instantly the one who garners the most suspicion. Overnight she went from third in line to first, with the only remote competition being Natsuhi, who by all appearances should have been taken out with her husband.

Also, am I missing something or does Rosa not have a husband? Keeping track of Ushiromiya's is getting hard.

[Westlo]

Eva is instantly the one who garners the most suspicion. Overnight she went from third in line to first, with the only remote competition being Natsuhi, who by all appearances should have been taken out with her husband.

If you want the correct family rankings look at how they are seated for dinner. (can't remember if it was this ep or 3). In any case not really a spoiler again.. Natsuhi is outranked by Maria. Which is why Eva took such offense that a borrowed womb told her the #3 to leave the house.

[Fencedude]

Eva is instantly the one who garners the most suspicion. Overnight she went from third in line to first, with the only remote competition being Natsuhi, who by all appearances should have been taken out with her husband.

If you want the correct family rankings look at how they are seated for dinner. (can't remember if it was this ep or 3). In any case not really a spoiler again.. Natsuhi is outranked by Maria. Which is why Eva took such offense that a borrowed womb told her the #3 to leave the house.

Ah, but...actually I'll be addressing this shortly once I finish episode 3

[Fencedude]

Ok, right up until she got killed, Eva was obviously the prime suspect, now being the Ushiromiya heir. Her attempts to divert suspicion onto the servants and Natsuhi not withstanding.

However, with her death, Natsuhi instantly becomes suspicious. As Westlo pointed out, Natsuhi is actually the lowest ranking non-servant character left, however her daughter is now the heir. The marks on her door were merely a diversion, and she counted on Eva's general sliminess to make her look less suspicious.

So now the only threats to her are Battler, George and Maria.

This is of course assuming a completely mundane explanation, which is complete BS, obviously.

[Fencedude]

Ok, with this, the idea of a mundane explanation is officially blown out of the water.

I didn't come to any major revelations during the episode, other than that Maria's still god damn creepy.

[DiGiKerot]

Also, am I missing something or does Rosa not have a husband? Keeping track of Ushiromiya's is getting hard.

No, you aren't missing anything there.

[Ty]

I'm really looking forward to seeing how the rest of the cast deals with Maria now. Her carrying the scorpion necklace Battler tossed back to her gives her something of an alibi, but there is no changing she is now the most suspicious person left. This franchise certainly does love its killer lolis.

[Moe Moe Taiga]

Best episode ever. (so far...) This was so close to the visual novel. They used a lot of the original BGM and kept most of the conversations. And of course: Beato and Bern are here!!!!!!!!! <---Don't read until after watching episode 5. They did change a few things though. Shannon's, Jessica's, and Beato's breasts are far too large, and Bern's are gone (I'm okay with this.:nosebleed:). Also the Maria expressions are still extremely uncalled for. And then a major thing they left out: The End Credit Roll. This gives you so many clues to help you begin to solve the mystery. If you guys would like to see it, Klash has written it up and I'll post it here if you want. It explains what happens between When Beato gets resurrected and the First Tea Party. But, that aside, it was amazing. I hope DEEN can keep this up...

Edit: Sorry about that Fencedude.

[Fencedude]

That was quite fantastic. I think Battler's being weird, but whatever.

Also, Fuck yeah Bernkastel

[Suwako Moriya]

Sometimes I wonder if Battler is actually more insane than Maria. I mean seriously the guy is just err I don't know how to describe it.

The scene with Maria's letter made me wonder if perhaps Maria knew she was going to lose it before she actually did.

At least we finally got to meet Beatrice and she's even more evil than I was expecting her to be. Regardless her design is interesting.

Bernkastel looks like she has potential to be awesome. I like her design and it's somewhat familiar to.

In any case, these first five episodes were interesting, but it's kind of worrying. Since they seem to be in a situation where they can't win. Which could make the idea of watching anymore futile.

[aku.chan]

So I take it I'm the only one who was seriously confused by this episode?

Didn't stop it being an interesting watch though. Battler being stubborn to the point of insanity was hilarious.

[Fencedude]

So I take it I'm the only one who was seriously confused by this episode?

Oh, I'm not even going to try to logically explain the second half of the episode, I figure its better to just roll with it for now. Seeing them discuss their deaths was pretty amusing though. "Bad End" indeed.

Didn't stop it being an interesting watch though. Battler being stubborn to the point of insanity was hilarious.

Oh yeah, Battler's refusal to believe in Beatrice even as she stood right in front of him was hilarious.

[Cyrano]

Hmm, this is getting interesting. Did not expect what happened in the second half of the episode, with them nonchalantly talking about their deaths and all. This show has loads of potential. Also, this Bernkastel person looks an awful lot like Rika...

Oh, and on a more unrelated note, I absolutely love the opening song.

Edit: Whoops, after doing some research it seems that Bernkastel appeared at the end of the second season of When They Cry. It's been a while since I last watched it, so I don't remember that happening. Silly me...time to rewatch that episode, I guess. :P

[Sly05]

Well that was weird. I wasn't expecting a post-game discussion. It was kind of cool to finally get too see Beatrice, but if they weren't going to show how the Battler and company died, I would have almost rather have had them left Beatrice as a mystery. I did like the introduction of Bernkastel, probably because she looks a lot like Rika.

[Fencedude]

I did like the introduction of Bernkastel, probably because she looks a lot like Rika.

Having come off of Rei, I noticed that Bernkastel sounds more...bored I guess than Rika ever really did. Though that's not too surprising, considering...

[Draneor]

I have a feeling that by the end of this I may end up hating Higurashi...

The ending song is definitely growing on me.

Oh yeah, Battler's refusal to believe in Beatrice even as she stood right in front of him was hilarious.

It was, but I wonder if it is the only thing that can kill a witch? Or more likely, she's just toying with him.

Having come off of Rei, I noticed that Bernkastel sounds more...bored I guess than Rika ever really did.

I'm not convinced they're entirely the same person as of yet, but there does seem to be a connection.

[Ty]

So I take it I'm the only one who was seriously confused by this episode?

It was definitely interesting, though given the nature of the source material I'm not sure how else they could have handled it. If you are going to break the 4th wall you might as well do it in style. Until this episode I had almost forgotten about the chapter nature of this material, even though it says Act I-V right in the title screen.

Bernkastel/Rika is probably going to make this even more interesting.

[Moe Moe Taiga]

And then a major thing they left out: The End Credit Roll. This gives you so many clues to help you begin to solve the mystery. If you guys would like to see it, Klash has written it up and I'll post it here if you want. It explains what happens between When Beato gets resurrected and the First Tea Party.

I went ahead and posted this in my blog. For those who want to read it, Here is the link (http://www.mania.com/aodvb/blog.php?b=2146). Don't read until after watching Episode 5. I may also be posting a few other Umineko related things there as well (TIPS, Character Descriptions, etc.). I'll make sure to not surpass where the anime currently is, so that it will be safe for non-VN readers.

[Draneor]

Re-watching the tea party. I want to try umeboshi kocha? now. ^^u

Bernkastel has the power to make a miracle occur as long as the probability isn't zero.

I still don't know who she is talking to at the end. <_<

[Sly05]

I'm not convinced they're entirely the same person as of yet, but there does seem to be a connection.

She does look a lot like the (minor Higurashi spoiler) adult Rika that you see briefly in Kei and given that both are voiced by Yukari Tamura, it's hard to believe the similarities are accidental. Even if it turns out to be nothing more than a tip of the hat to fans of Higurashi, it's pretty cool.

[Moe Moe Taiga]

I still don't know who she is talking to at the end. <_<

It is widely believed that she is talking to you (the viewer, the person trying to solve the mystery), and then some believe that she is actually talking to Battler. The truth is that we don't know yet.

[Fencedude]

I'm not convinced they're entirely the same person as of yet, but there does seem to be a connection.

She does look a lot like the (minor Higurashi spoiler) adult Rika that you see briefly in Kei and given that both are voiced by Yukari Tamura, it's hard to believe the similarities are accidental. Even if it turns out to be nothing more than a tip of the hat to fans of Higurashi, it's pretty cool.

There's a rather explicit comment at the end of Rei 4 that deepens the connection.

[musouka]

I would have almost rather have had them left Beatrice as a mystery.

I used to sort of think the same way, but that's mainly because I was stuck in a "Higurashi mindset". (And, btw, that's not a good mindset to be in for this series)

[Sly05]

It was a couple weeks ago that I watched that episode of Rei so I had forgotten about that comment. That definitely makes that theory much more likely.

[Fencedude]

I would have almost rather have had them left Beatrice as a mystery.

I used to sort of think the same way, but that's mainly because I was stuck in a "Higurashi mindset". (And, btw, that's not a good mindset to be in for this series)

Hmm...I think I see where you are getting at with that comment, though I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning.

I can't say for certain till I see how the next chapter is set up, but I'm expecting a bit more explicit repetition than Higurashi had (due to more variables in Higurashi?) but new elements (such as Bernkastel) mixing things up.

Or I could be complete wrong! (don't tell me)

[Fencedude]

New Opening Theme Band Revealed (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/493397)

[Ty]

New Opening Theme Band Revealed (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/493397)

That is certifiably awesome. And you had me there for a second before I clicked.

[Westlo]

I would have almost rather have had them left Beatrice as a mystery.

I used to sort of think the same way, but that's mainly because I was stuck in a "Higurashi mindset". (And, btw, that's not a good mindset to be in for this series)

Hmm...I think I see where you are getting at with that comment, though I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning.

Probably her loving Beatrice to death is the main reason lol. Also Fencedude you should stay the fuck away from Danbooru pics lol, so many spoilers.

[Westlo]

By the way I guess I should explain something... everything after Maria's letter happened in purgatorio. This is called the meta world by the VN readers, this is why Battler can deny Beatrice even though she is in front of him. Since Battler is denying Beatrice being involved with the murders in real life.

You should also pay some close attention to Battler and Beato's conversation.. also isn't it strange how one character acted towards Beatrice considering what happened earlier...

[Draneor]

She does look a lot like the (minor Higurashi spoiler) adult Rika that you see briefly in Kai and given that both are voiced by Yukari Tamura, it's hard to believe the similarities are accidental.

Again, I don't necessarily think that was the same person either. Perhaps Bernkastel possessed Rika (hence the dark Rika). Perhaps Bernkastel is what Rika would have become had she gone a certain path (which she did, in an alternate universe). Perhaps it's just a coincidence. In any case, given this is When They Cry Three, I'm sure we'll find out more eventually.

There's a rather explicit comment at the end of Rei 4 that deepens the connection.

Actually, if anything, I think that comment indicates that Bernkastel can't be that Rika.

You should also pay some close attention to Battler and Beato's conversation.. also isn't it strange how one character acted towards Beatrice considering what happened earlier...

I recall Kanon seemed to have known her...

[musouka]

I would have almost rather have had them left Beatrice as a mystery.

I used to sort of think the same way, but that's mainly because I was stuck in a "Higurashi mindset". (And, btw, that's not a good mindset to be in for this series)

Hmm...I think I see where you are getting at with that comment, though I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning.

No spoilers, but let's just say that Ryukishi mentioned that the game would be harder for Higurashi fans. It's definitely true, since a good chunk of Umineko is "turning the chessboard around" on some of the stuff Higurashi worked with.

For example, in the VN, during the Tea Party, Battler scoffs at Maria's "because you didn't believe, the miracle didn't happen" (which was a rather large theme of Higurashi) and responds with (paraphrasing) "Miracles happen even when people don't believe, that's why they're miracles".

Whether Battler's perspective is right remains to be seen, but Umineko is a lot more complex than Higurashi in almost every way, from its themes to characterization, and I think a lot of people make assumptions or get caught up in very black or white perspectives due to the way Higurashi was set up.

My two cents.

EDIT: Also, yes, preemptive claiming of Beato while all of you weirdos are gushing over Bern. You'll be sorry you missed out. :P

[Fencedude]

No spoilers, but let's just say that Ryukishi mentioned that the game would be harder for Higurashi fans. It's definitely true, since a good chunk of Umineko is "turning the chessboard around" on some of the stuff Higurashi worked with.

For example, in the VN, during the Tea Party, Battler scoffs at Maria's "because you didn't believe, the miracle didn't happen" (which was a rather large theme of Higurashi) and responds with (paraphrasing) "Miracles happen even when people don't believe, that's why they're miracles".

Whether Battler's perspective is right remains to be seen, but Umineko is a lot more complex than Higurashi in almost every way, from its themes to characterization, and I think a lot of people make assumptions or get caught up in very black or white perspectives due to the way Higurashi was set up.

My two cents.

EDIT: Also, yes, preemptive claiming of Beato while all of you weirdos are gushing over Bern. You'll be sorry you missed out. :P

Ok, yeah, that makes sense. Battler especially is very much not a Higurashi character.

Also Beatrice is very nice (Ohara Sayoko!) but...but....BERN-CHAN!

[Suwako Moriya]

Also, yes, preemptive claiming of Beato while all of you weirdos are gushing over Bern. You'll be sorry you missed out. :P

Perhaps, I'll be sorry in the future. However in the present I don't have much motivation to claim her. I mean sure she's interesting in the context of being a villain. Which is what I consider her to be.

As for Bern, she does have the advantage of reminding me of Rika. Yes, I know being X reminding one of Y does not mean X is Y. Even so that can have a mental effect. Plus I like the way she enters the story.

However in the case of Bern, I still need to learn more about her. Actually, you could probably say the same thing about both of them.

[Draneor]

EDIT: Also, yes, preemptive claiming of Beato while all of you weirdos are gushing over Bern. You'll be sorry you missed out. :P

I doubt it. I don't like villains. Although to be honest, there isn't anyone in Umineko I like. That I know of anyway.

[musouka]

Also Beatrice is very nice (Ohara Sayoko!)

I just hope she has a lot of range. [checks] Ah, wait. She played Layla. Shouldn't be a problem.

[Fencedude]

I doubt it. I don't like villains. Although to be honest, there isn't anyone in Umineko I like.

Villains are far more interesting, generally.

And what, you don't like batshit insanity?

[Fencedude]

Also Beatrice is very nice (Ohara Sayoko!)

I just hope she has a lot of range. [checks] Ah, wait. She played Layla. Shouldn't be a problem.

Very much so.

[HitokiriShadow]

That was unexpected. I expected the episode to end with the last person or people dying, even if we didn't see the details (that part wasn't surprising). But instead, over half the episode has the characters calmly talking about what happened, including some who had already died. Then they all get to die again.

But most importantly, Beatrice and Bernkastel make their appearances. Beatrice's appearances was expected, Bernkastel's was not, and their conversations was the most interesting one of the episode.

[musouka]

I doubt it. I don't like villains. Although to be honest, there isn't anyone in Umineko I like.

AUGH. AUUUUUGH! Torture! Cruelty! To say such things in a place where I can't defend them!!

[Draneor]

And what, you don't like batshit insanity?

If you mean Maria, she's a bit young (and also somewhat annoying). But at the moment, I feel neutral about the entire cast. No characters have produced any strong emotions in me either way (unlike Higurashi, where I loved most of them and really hated one person). I guess I'm actually watching it for the story or the experience?

[Draneor]

AUGH. AUUUUUGH! Torture! Cruelty! To say such things in a place where I can't defend them!!

That's my initial impression of Beatrice. I'm always willing to change my mind over the course of the experience (c.f. Nagi from Kannagi). And considering the last three chapters haven't even been written yet...

[HitokiriShadow]

Edit: Whoops, after doing some research it seems that Bernkastel appeared at the end of the second season of When They Cry. It's been a while since I last watched it, so I don't remember that happening. Silly me...time to rewatch that episode, I guess. :P

If I recall correctly, it was after the ending credits that she appeared.

[musouka]

That's my initial impression of Beatrice. I'm always willing to change my mind over the course of the experience (c.f. Nagi from Kannagi). And considering the last three chapters haven't even been written yet...

I love Beatrice, but I was also referring to the idea of not loving the cast. It's hard for me, being up to date on the VNs, to put myself in the mindset as when I played the first arc. Like, yes, by the time the first arc ended, the only character I loved was Natsuhi, and she was what basically kept me playing.

However, by the point I am now, everyone has made me cry and shown me both their brilliant strengths and understandable flaws. I love them all, probably even more than the Higurashi gang. I very rarely have wanted an entire cast to somehow end up happy more than this one.

[Westlo]

Beatrice is easily the MVP of Umineko.

Btw here's the full version of the Golden Slaughterer BGM used at the end of episodes 2-4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOWWO05YN0M

ZTS put out some great music for Umineko... hopefully for the second arc his main track during that gets a better showcase... though considering the scenes it is used in.. that shouldn't be a problem.

EDIT: Also, yes, preemptive claiming of Beato while all of you weirdos are gushing over Bern. You'll be sorry you missed out. :P

I doubt it. I don't like villains. Although to be honest, there isn't anyone in Umineko I like. That I know of anyway.

Oh boy, can't wait to come back to this comment by the end XD

[Sly05]

I'll try to keep that in mind though it is sometimes hard not to fall into that trap when the series is by the same people and follows the same general story format as Higurashi (repeating arcs).

[tadakichi]

I've been thinking about this episode since I first watched it, and the part that sticks in my mind is Beatrice's list of things that purportedly lack a mundane explanation. The thing is, at least some of them can be explained pretty easily (albeit with knowledge that Battler and company do not possess). Going in order:

The letter given to Maria
For the audience, there's nothing too unbelievable going on here. We saw Kinzou throw his signet ring out the window, and we saw "Beatrice" approach Maria to deliver the letter. It's not like you need magic powers to convince a 9-year-old girl that you're someone else, especially if it's dark and she's prone to suggestion. I suppose it would be tricky to find the ring in those conditions, though, even if you knew of its defenestration.

The receipt wedged in Kinzou's door by Eva
This is practically a cliche. I would expect a reasonably perceptive individual to notice a small scrap of paper falling to the floor when the door was opened, and it's hardly a great leap of logic to figure out why (especially if you're plotting mass murder and have reason to be extra cautious). The culprit could have easily replaced the receipt after exiting the room without Eva knowing any better.

The chain on Eva and Hideyoshi's door
At the beginning of episode 4, Battler reasons that a locked door with the chain set means no one could enter or leave the room. What about the window, dumbass? Certainly any number of factors could make it difficult or impossible to escape through the window, but you would think they'd at least mention that if it were the case.

The parlor deaths
Okay, I got nothing here.

Natsuhi's suicide
I'm hardly convinced that was suicide... at the moment the shot is fired, we only see the muzzle of the gun. Perhaps the culprit obtained a gun of the same model as Kinzou's in order to confound forensics investigators, and Natsuhi's shock at seeing the culprit led her to hesitate, spelling her doom.

I look forward to my wild speculation being proven laughably incorrect as the show goes on.

[Fencedude]

It depends on how strict your demands are.

For a while at least, Battler was denying the very EXISTENCE of a 19th person, not just a 19th person with magic powers.

I think that position is insane of him to take, personally.

If you assume a 19th person, it is not, strictly speaking, required for them to be a witch. They do however need Maria's willing cooperation.

[Ashyukun]

They do however need Maria's willing cooperation.
Or at least for her to, quite literally at times, look the other way a bit. :P

[Ty]

The parlor deaths
Okay, I got nothing here.

The room could have a secret door in the wall somewhere. It looked like mostly brick, but it's still possible. Or the brick could be a fake type of paneling and the wall is traditional behind it. I assume the windows in this room are out because it's an upper floor?

[Fencedude]

The parlor deaths
Okay, I got nothing here.

The room could have a secret door in the wall somewhere. It looked like mostly brick, but it's still possible. Or the brick could be a fake type of paneling and the wall is traditional behind it. I assume the windows in this room are out because it's an upper floor?

Maria could have done it.

Highly unlikely, but a possibility.

[Nork22]

After the entire thing, I don't really know if Battler's in extreme denial mode or just going insane. Sure every death is explainable to a certain degree, but really, after the tea party and the after tea party, anything goes. Heck I'll even believe in aliens too.

[Buster Blader 126]

After a brief hiatus from anime-in-Japanese-not-called-Hetalia thanks to Prototype, I've caught up with the show over the past two days.

What an interesting turn of events! So everybody dies in the end (or did they?), even Maria (that creepy little munchkin). It's pretty much what I expected out of the first arc.

The final half of Episode 5 was certainly interesting, especially with the earlier clarification of Westlo. Shannon and Kanon were brought back from the dead in this segment - perhaps that's reminescent to the epitaph in regards to the reward section of it? Also, now that Bernkastel is thrown into the mix, seeing how this will all unfold should prove to be delightful.

Especially since judging by the various posts in this thread, I'm getting the impression that much/all of the way of thinking conjured up as a result of having experienced Higurashi, should be thrown out of the window. All notions that it might play out similar to it might (and I suspect quite likely will) also be defunct. After all, it'd be foolish to think that Ryukishi07 wouldn't throw a curveball at us.

I really can't think of any theories at this point - the first arc is structured in the same way that Higurashi's was so it'd be difficult to conjure up a decent one (plus the more plausible theories didn't really pop up until the 2nd arc), plus everything points to this being the handiwork of Beatrice. Maybe there is a human manipulating everything, but something tells me that I shouldn't assume that right away.

Damn, I'm really pumped for this - I don't think I've ever had such high expectations for any anime title, especially with a friend singing his praises about the game. I can see this easily entering the Top 3 of my anime list (with Higurashi solidly holding the #2 position), depending on how everything plays out.

[ndm]

Especially since according from the various posts in this thread, I'm getting the impression that much/all of the way of thinking conjured up as a result of having experienced Higurashi, should be thrown out of the window. All notions that it might play out similar to it might (and I suspect quite likely will) also be defunct. After all, it'd be foolish to think that Ryukishi07 wouldn't throw a curveball at us.


I agree. I have no idea who the murderer is (assuming we go with the logic side and assume it wasn't a witch using magic), but many of the theories I've seen seem too straightforward to me. While it's possible the answer may simply be something like 'it was Maria in the parlour with the candlestick', remembering that this is Ryukishi07 and that in Higurashi he set it up that what we originally believed was demonic possession turned out to be a virus, I personally expect it to be more complex than that. Maybe someone used hypnosis on the others to have them commit suicide, or maybe someone unknowingly has a split personality called Beatrice, or (one ridiculous idea I thought of) maybe they're all clones and while they think it's 1986 they're actually part of an experiment in the future where they get killed repeatedly. I honestly can't even begin to guess the answer yet but I love the journey.

[tadakichi]

It depends on how strict your demands are.

For a while at least, Battler was denying the very EXISTENCE of a 19th person, not just a 19th person with magic powers.

I think that position is insane of him to take, personally.

If you assume a 19th person, it is not, strictly speaking, required for them to be a witch. They do however need Maria's willing cooperation.

The existence of a 19th person seems almost non-negotiable, what with the 18 we know about all being killed. It was pointed out that the first six victims had their faces disfigured to the point of being unrecognizable, so someone might have faked his/her death--but that still requires a 19th person to provide a substitute corpse. Whether the 19th person is Beatrice or someone else, I have no idea.

Right now I'm inclined to believe that Beatrice does exist, and that she possesses some supernatural powers, but it would be a big letdown if the final explanation for everything was "Beatrice used her witch powers to kill everyone. The End." I like the idea of human involvement because it makes things a lot more interesting.

[Buster Blader 126]

I agree. I have no idea who the murderer is (assuming we go with the logic side and assume it wasn't a witch using magic), but many of the theories I've seen seem too straightforward to me. While it's possible the answer may simply be something like 'it was Maria in the parlour with the candlestick', remembering that this is Ryukishi07 and that in Higurashi he set it up that what we originally believed was demonic possession turned out to be a virus, I personally expect it to be more complex than that. Maybe someone used hypnosis on the others to have them commit suicide, or maybe someone unknowingly has a split personality called Beatrice, or (one ridiculous idea I thought of) maybe they're all clones and while they think it's 1986 they're actually part of an experiment in the future where they get killed repeatedly. I honestly can't even begin to guess the answer yet but I love the journey.

But hey, maybe it will be more straightforward than we might be led to believe...

...until WHAM! A whole new wave of complexity appears, which will soon be followed by its explanation. We will then proceed to be wowed and amazed at how the heck said complex matter can even be explained.

Solving complex mysteries (accompanied with the sleuthing abilities that it requires) have never been my forte, but it never hurts to try. Perhaps I'll conjure up a theory or three over the course of this series, but I anticipate that I'll be doing more observing than any serious speculating.

On a separate note, it seems like it'll literally be the exact same scenario played over multiple times with variations. Yet, we as the audience is already in the know, and we already know how and why. [Higurashi spoiler]That is a major difference between the two works, since this was not the case in Higurashi.[/Higurashi spoiler] Since that is not a secret (or are there more secrets attached to them?), I'm wondering how Ryukishi07 is going to throw us off in this story, and the thought of what he is capable of and how he's going to do it excites me greatly.

I know it's not good to hold such blind faith, but I can't help it right now. I'm really pumped for this show, plus my gut feeling is that this story will be a satisfying experience. My gut hasn't steered me wrong yet - I hope it stays that way for this series.

[Fencedude]

Beatrice has Thighhighs in the OP...

Speaking of which, I wasn't expecting so much Beatrice in the show, but fantastic! And this explains why Shannon and Kanon were so convinced about Beatrice being the culprit.

Lots of Jessica as well, and HOLY CRAP TOUHOU COSPLAY CONCERT WITH JESSICA-MARISA WTF!?

And Kanon, you're a moron.

[Suwako Moriya]

Lots of Jessica as well, and HOLY CRAP TOUHOU COSPLAY CONCERT WITH JESSICA-MARISA WTF!?

That was pretty nice to watch. I wonder if the song they were singing is an actual reference or just random. Speaking of Jessica, I like the part where she decided to put on some knuckles.

And Kanon, you're a moron.

New game idea. Every time he says furniture, someone takes say for example a chair and smashes him with it.

[Westlo]

They nailed Beato's face at the end of the ep and from the ep 7 preview they finally got one of Maria's down good, thankfully they got through these scenes quickly, not really a fan of either pairing tbh and everything from next ep up is gold. i'm hopin they keep that Answer bgm.. god knows how many times I listened to that track off the drama cd,,

And Kanon, you're a moron.

No he's just furniture!

As for so much Beatrice.. well she is the lead female character of the show as her being the only person in the ED with Battler as well as her OP time indicates.

And yes thighhighs Beatrice is delicious, they put her character design on the website

http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu/090806/miniskirtbeato_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png

[Fencedude]

As for so much Beatrice.. well she is the lead female character of the show as her being the only person in the ED with Battler as well as her OP time indicates.

Well yeah, but going from her being a mysterious existence who's reality is in doubt to most of the cast to her...having tea and sweets with Shannon was rather unexpected. Not a problem though, she's awesome. Shannon was pretty cool too.

And yes thighhighs Beatrice is delicious, they put her character design on the website

http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu/090806/miniskirtbeato_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png

So are those tattoos or some sort of applique? I WILL NOT REST UNTIL I FIND OUT.

[Buster Blader 126]

Beatrice has Thighhighs in the OP...

I haven't even seen the episode yet (just the OP), but I must say this now:

Beatrice makes for one very convincing-looking high school student. :nosebleed:

[tadakichi]

Beatrice in thigh-highs during the OP was... unexpected, as was Jessica's Touhou-cosplay performance at her culture festival. George's "TOMITAKE FLASH" t-shirt was a nice nod.

Somehow it never occurred to me that Kanon and Shannon were siblings before hearing Kanon address Shannon as "nee-san".

Yeah, so a lot of my speculation looks really stupid now that we know that Beatrice can manifest herself and use her powers in the real world. Out of the residents of Rokkenjima, we're told only Kanon and Shannon can see her, but Maria doesn't live on Rokkenjima so she might be able to as well. Right now it seems entirely possible for Beatrice to have killed everyone in the first arc, but she didn't seem like that bad of a person in this episode.

I'm actually more curious about Kanon and Shannon. Kanon is obviously pretty convinced that he's on the same level as furniture, as is Shannon until she falls in love with George. Kanon forgetting his real name and Shannon having the one-winged eagle tattooed on her leg makes me wonder how long they've been working for the Ushiromiya family, even though by all appearances they're still teenagers. Somehow I don't think they got hired after responding to a help-wanted ad.

[tadakichi]

from the ep 7 preview

Thanks for mentioning that; I didn't realize they were posting next episode previews on the official website (like they did with Higurashi Kai) until now. Kanon's voiceover is... interesting.

[Sly05]

Wow, hooray for the random Beatrice zettai ryouiki and Touhou cosplay.

So Shannon and Kanon aren't they're really names? What are they, indentured servants? It might explain why Kanon is so emo about everything.

More Beatrice was a pleasant surprise. She's definitely not playing a background role in this series.

[Fencedude]

So Shannon and Kanon aren't they're really names? What are they, indentured servants? It might explain why Kanon is so emo about everything.

Shannon's real name was mentioned in episode 2. Anuyway, remember how Jessica mentioned that Kinzo ran an orphenage and sometimes kids would be brought to the islandV well maybe Shannon and Kanon are two of those kids.


More Beatrice was a pleasant surprise. She's definitely not playing a background role in this series.

Very much so, this was a pleasnt surprise. Also hope we get some of her ZETTAI RYOUIKI form soon.

[Sly05]

Anuyway, remember how Jessica mentioned that Kinzo ran an orphenage and sometimes kids would be brought to the islandV well maybe Shannon and Kanon are two of those kids.

Ah, that's right. I had forgotten about that to be honest. Given the way Kanon acts, it doesn't seem like his experience was all sunshine and lolipops.

[Draneor]

The portrait of Beatrice changed. And she's in a seductive seifuku. Must not fall for the trap.

I've just now realized that Kugimiya Rie is utterly the wrong voice for Shannon/Sayo.

We're going back in time and Shannon broke the mirror in the shrine?

OK. Eva is a evil, dastardly, back-stabbing, pretentious bitch. Die! Die! Die!

Well, that explains how Shannon and Kanon knew about Beatrice.

God dammit. Now I have to rewatch the first part to see if Shannon had the pin with her.

Looks like Shannon is friendly with Beatrice. And it seems Beatrice kind of likes her?

Beatrice was imprisoned on the island for decades. Must not pity.

Jessica is part of a Touhou-cosplaying school band? And they have breasts! What the fuck!

For being furniture, Kanon is a real jerk.

I should have know it was all an act. Beatrice is the root of all that is evil.

[Draneor]

New game idea. Every time he says furniture, someone takes say for example a chair and smashes him with it.

This sounds like a fun drinking game...

[Draneor]

And yes thighhighs Beatrice is delicious, they put her character design on the website

http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu/090806/miniskirtbeato_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png

Well, that explains why I could only count 11 golden tattoos in the first episode. Beatrice was the 12th.

Somehow it never occurred to me that Kanon and Shannon were siblings before hearing Kanon address Shannon as "nee-san"

It sort of came out of the blue for me too. Although they do look alike.

[Fencedude]

I've just now realized that Kugimiya Rie is utterly the wrong voice for Shannon/Sayo.


I think its the tits.

[Draneor]

I think its the tits.

It reminds me of her roll as Kamyu, which I also thought didn't fit.

[Fencedude]

I think its the tits.

It reminds me of her roll as Kamyu, which I also thought didn't fit.

Agreed. Something about Kugimiya and tits just don't mix.

They should have hired Tanaka, though that may just be too cliche.

[Nork22]

I think its the tits.

It reminds me of her roll as Kamyu, which I also thought didn't fit.

Agreed. Something about Kugimiya and tits just don't mix.

They should have hired Tanaka, though that may just be too cliche.

TEH MAMIKO would be a laugh if she played Shannon.

[Draneor]

TEH MAMIKO would be a laugh if she played Shannon.

I thought Horie Yui would make a pretty good Shannon, but then I realized that would make Kugimiya Maria--and I don't think that really works either. Plus, Horie is good as Maria (almost too good at making her annoying).

[Fencedude]

TEH MAMIKO would be a laugh if she played Shannon.

I thought Horie Yui would make a pretty good Shannon, but then I realized that would make Kugimiya Maria--and I don't think that really works either. Plus, Horie is good as Maria (almost too good at making her annoying).

Being serious about it, I'd suggest Goto Yuko.

[William K]

TEH MAMIKO would be a laugh if she played Shannon.

I thought Horie Yui would make a pretty good Shannon, but then I realized that would make Kugimiya Maria--and I don't think that really works either. Plus, Horie is good as Maria (almost too good at making her annoying).

Being serious about it, I'd suggest Goto Yuko.

Since I'm also watching Princess Lover! at the moment, Matsuoka Yuki has shown she can play a maid well

[Ashyukun]

I've just now realized that Kugimiya Rie is utterly the wrong voice for Shannon/Sayo.


I think its the tits.
OK, I got entirely too big of a laugh out of that... and it's also somewhat disturbing given how far I had to go down the list of roles she'd played before I could find one that I could say for certain actually had a halfway substantial chest (more disturbing was the fact that it was her role in Queen's Blade...). Granted, I've not seen half the shows she's been in, but...

[Buster Blader 126]

Multiple rewatches of Beatrice in thigh-highs later (about seven to be exact)...

Those later scenes in the OP are now explained. Interesting...

The Beatrice tea scene were fun to watch. Quite odd, but still fun.

& turning down Jessica = OMG KANON ARE YOU MAD



Somehow it never occurred to me that Kanon and Shannon were siblings before hearing Kanon address Shannon as "nee-san".

I don't remember hearing that. =/ Guess I'll have to check back later.

but she didn't seem like that bad of a person in this episode.

Given that look she wears during the chorus of the OP, I can't help but wonder if there's something else about her....

Very much so, this was a pleasnt surprise. Also hope we get some of her ZETTAI RYOUIKI form soon.

More like MORE! LOTS MORE!

The portrait of Beatrice changed. And she's in a seductive seifuku. Must not fall for the trap.

'Tis too late for me.

OK. Eva is a evil, dastardly, back-stabbing, pretentious bitch. Die! Die! Die!

Given that she voiced another certain character in a certain other show, I can't say that I'm too surprised.

Plus, she had that "I'm a bitch!" look in the very beginning, I find.


I've just now realized that Kugimiya Rie is utterly the wrong voice for Shannon/Sayo.


I think its the tits.

It reminds me of her roll as Kamyu, which I also thought didn't fit.

Beat me to the punch.

I actually couldn't tell it was Rie Kugimiya voicing Shannon until Ep. 6. But regardless, her voicing big-breasted women is fine with me! :catgirl:

& I didn't have an issue with her as Kamyu, but that's just me.

[Moe Moe Taiga]

Somehow it never occurred to me that Kanon and Shannon were siblings before hearing Kanon address Shannon as "nee-san".

I don't remember hearing that. =/ Guess I'll have to check back later.



They're not actual siblings. They just come from the same orphanage and like to call each other that.

[Buster Blader 126]

They're not actual siblings. They just come from the same orphanage and like to call each other that.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Westlo]

The portrait of Beatrice changed. And she's in a seductive seifuku. Must not fall for the trap.

Beatrice was imprisoned on the island for decades. Must not pity.

I should have know it was all an act. Beatrice is the root of all that is evil.

Oh it's going to be fun reading this thread. I think this is the only forum I've seen where there is more anime only watchers instead of VN readers.

[Westlo]

from the ep 7 preview

Thanks for mentioning that; I didn't realize they were posting next episode previews on the official website (like they did with Higurashi Kai) until now. Kanon's voiceover is... interesting.

Lol they're clearly having fun with these previews, here's a quick translation of Suki.

This is Kanon.
We are furniture.
Since we are furniture, we don't go to the washroom, nor do we fart.
We have a hundred thousand horsepower, and machine guns stuck to our bottoms.
We say "ki-n" and run with our arms stretched to the sides, and have a pocket attached to our stomach.
Sometimes we wear school uniform and geta, and eat sasanishiki (type of rice)all the time.
Our real names has got to be, Andou Shannon and Kanon.
Shannon probably have a maiden circuit installed in her, and probably can fire breast missiles.
That's becuase, we are furniture.
Next time, early queen move
I want to be human quick.

[Nork22]

This is Kanon.
We are furniture.
Since we are furniture, we don't go to the washroom, nor do we fart.
We have a hundred thousand horsepower, and machine guns stuck to our bottoms.
We say "ki-n" and run with our arms stretched to the sides, and have a pocket attached to our stomach.
Sometimes we wear school uniform and geta, and eat sasanishiki (type of rice)all the time.
Our real names has got to be, Andou Shannon and Kanon.
Shannon probably have a maiden circuit installed in her, and probably can fire breast missiles.
That's becuase, we are furniture.
Next time, early queen move
I want to be human quick.

So that's what he was going on about. I heard machine gun and Oppai missles so I was WTF is he smoking. Man if I knew these Next EP previews where as silly as the Higurashi Kai Next EP previews, I should have checked them out earlier.

[Ashyukun]

Oh it's going to be fun reading this thread. I think this is the only forum I've seen where there is more anime only watchers instead of VN readers.
Well, since there's a thread for both the anime and the VN, I'd guess it's not too surprising that most of us here are just watching the anime and don't have much if any knowledge about the VN.

I have my doubts about Beatrice being all that truly evil... she definitely seems more than a tad on the sadistic side, but I'll be wholly unsurprised if there's a lot more to her than we've seen so far.

Eva on the other hand- her I'll flatly consider evil (though an understandable one...)

[Suwako Moriya]

I have my doubts about Beatrice being all that truly evil... she definitely seems more than a tad on the sadistic side, but I'll be wholly unsurprised if there's a lot more to her than we've seen so far.

I'm half-expecting them to try and convince me that Beatrice isn't as "evil" as she appears right now. The problem though is how they're going to be able to achieve that. They've essentially set up a scenario where it's going to take a lot to convince me.

[musouka]

Lots of Jessica as well, and HOLY CRAP TOUHOU COSPLAY CONCERT WITH JESSICA-MARISA WTF!?

I'll just leave this right here... (http://i29.tinypic.com/33waamx.jpg)

[Fencedude]

Lots of Jessica as well, and HOLY CRAP TOUHOU COSPLAY CONCERT WITH JESSICA-MARISA WTF!?

I'll just leave this right here... (http://i29.tinypic.com/33waamx.jpg)

LOL KANON

[HitokiriShadow]

Yay, lots of Jessica this episode. Including Jessica singing in a Touhou cosplay band and Jessica beating her friends with steal knuckles, which provided an interesting and brutal twist to the typical "character hits friend(s) for teasing him/her" routine. Also, Jessica has some sort of illness (the most obvious answer is asthma, so that's probably not what it is).

Shannon/Sayo was the other character to get a lot of focus this episode and we learn all sorts of interesting things as a result. The most interesting being that Shannon and Kanon had already met Beatrice two years earlier and many times since.

It was also nice to see some scenes of the family getting along together rather than just yelling at and blackmailing each other.

Jumping straight into backstory from well before the events of the first episode certainly wasn't what I was expecting.

[HitokiriShadow]

Lol they're clearly having fun with these previews, here's a quick translation of Suki.

This is Kanon.
We are furniture.
Since we are furniture, we don't go to the washroom, nor do we fart.
We have a hundred thousand horsepower, and machine guns stuck to our bottoms.
We say "ki-n" and run with our arms stretched to the sides, and have a pocket attached to our stomach.
Sometimes we wear school uniform and geta, and eat sasanishiki (type of rice)all the time.
Our real names has got to be, Andou Shannon and Kanon.
Shannon probably have a maiden circuit installed in her, and probably can fire breast missiles.
That's becuase, we are furniture.
Next time, early queen move
I want to be human quick.

That's hilarious. Now I wish they had these in the actual episodes so I could watch them. Or at listen to them and read the dialogue. I held up a piece of paper over the screen to watch next ep previews for Higurashi Kai, and that's what I would do here.

[HitokiriShadow]

I have my doubts about Beatrice being all that truly evil... she definitely seems more than a tad on the sadistic side, but I'll be wholly unsurprised if there's a lot more to her than we've seen so far.


The fact that they are making Beatrice look like such a bad guy from the beginning pretty much guarantees she isn't actually as bad as she seems.

[musouka]

(the most obvious answer is asthma, so that's probably not what it is).

That's exactly what it is.

[Fencedude]

(the most obvious answer is asthma, so that's probably not what it is).

That's exactly what it is.

Somewhat surprising it never acted up in the parts we saw.

[musouka]

(the most obvious answer is asthma, so that's probably not what it is).

That's exactly what it is.

Somewhat surprising it never acted up in the parts we saw.

It did. Remember her coughing fit after Kanon died?

(The first arc cut out a relatively unimportant, but rather character-revealing sequence when she begins to have an attack, and Kanon knows exactly where her inhaler is and brings it to her.)

[Fencedude]

It did. Remember her coughing fit after Kanon died?


I'd actually thought that that was her collapsing in tears, but now that you mention it I realize that it was a coughing fit.

[Ty]

Well this certainly had a totally different feel from the first arc. Should serve to keep things interesting. I liked Beatrice in this episode, and I'm liking Jessica quite a bit now too. She didn't really do enough of anything to get a feel for her character in the last arc. The Touhou reference was hilarious, though I must admit I don't quite see the connection. Did they use Touhou just because it is a popular reference?

[Ty]

Somewhat surprising it never acted up in the parts we saw.

Yeah you would think seeing your parents murdered would trigger enough panic to cause an asthma attack too.

[Draneor]

The Touhou reference was hilarious, though I must admit I don't quite see the connection. Did they use Touhou just because it is a popular reference?

Both 07th Expansion and Team Shanghai Alice are prominent doujin game makers who make original work. Think of it like a nod.

Also, Ryukishi07 uses doujin music in his games. Including a doujin Touhou song by Silver Forest that is popular on Nico Nico, "Tsurupettan." They didn't use the song in the anime though.

[Fencedude]

The Touhou reference was hilarious, though I must admit I don't quite see the connection. Did they use Touhou just because it is a popular reference?

Both 07th Expansion and Team Shanghai Alice are prominent doujin game makers who make original work. Think of it like a nod.

Was that reference in the original game?

And heck, Ciel was the teacher in Higurashi.

[Draneor]

Was that reference in the original game?

Based on a video I have seen of that part of the game, Tsurupettan was from the game. I have no idea where the anime song was from, although Silver Forest was listed in the credits.

And heck, Ciel was the teacher in Higurashi.

Yeah. ^^

[Fencedude]

Also, on an almost completely unrelated note, and I could probably look this up but I'm not quite sure how.

Is the fact that "Umineko" sounds like "Sea Cat" just a coincidence or is there an actual etymological connection?

I know Japanese is lousy with homonyms, so I honestly have no idea.

[Ty]

I thought that sea cat was just another way to refer to seagulls? Granted that makes no sense, but from a Japanese perspective......

[Moe Moe Taiga]

Also, on an almost completely unrelated note, and I could probably look this up but I'm not quite sure how.

Is the fact that "Umineko" sounds like "Sea Cat" just a coincidence or is there an actual etymological connection?

I know Japanese is lousy with homonyms, so I honestly have no idea.

Sea Cat is the Japanese name for the Black-tailed Gull, it's given this name because of it's cat-like call. (Also, Sea Cat is a Surface-to-Air missile from the UK., but that's totally unrelated, I hope :sweat:) So the title is literally When the Sea Cats Cry, but it's often changed to When the Sea Gulls Cry to avoid confusion. (It was the same with Higurashi: When the Higurashi Cry<---->When the Cicadas Cry.)

Edit: Sorry Ty, I didn't read all the way down.

[Fencedude]

Also, on an almost completely unrelated note, and I could probably look this up but I'm not quite sure how.

Is the fact that "Umineko" sounds like "Sea Cat" just a coincidence or is there an actual etymological connection?

I know Japanese is lousy with homonyms, so I honestly have no idea.

Sea Cat is the Japanese name for the Black-tailed Gull, it's given this name because of it's cat-like call. (Also, Sea Cat is a Surface-to-Air missile from the UK., but that's totally unrelated, I hope :sweat:) So the title is literally When the Sea Cats Cry, but it's often changed to When the Sea Gulls Cry to avoid confusion. (It was the same with Higurashi: When the Higurashi Cry<---->When the Cicadas Cry.)

Edit: Sorry Ty, I didn't read all the way down.

Ok, so it really is Sea Cats.

Fantastic!

[TheGreenMan]

The Touhou concert was very cool, but what the hell are the lyrics?

[Draneor]

The Touhou concert was very cool, but what the hell are the lyrics?

I assume they will be included with Jessica's character CD.

[beatmania]

Somewhat surprising it never acted up in the parts we saw.

Yeah you would think seeing your parents murdered would trigger enough panic to cause an asthma attack too.

Umm ... not every asthma patient get asthma attacks when they become 'emotional'.

[Fencedude]

Somewhat surprising it never acted up in the parts we saw.

Yeah you would think seeing your parents murdered would trigger enough panic to cause an asthma attack too.

Umm ... not every asthma patient get asthma attacks when they become 'emotional'.

She did at least once though.

[beatmania]

Somewhat surprising it never acted up in the parts we saw.

Yeah you would think seeing your parents murdered would trigger enough panic to cause an asthma attack too.

Umm ... not every asthma patient get asthma attacks when they become 'emotional'.

She did at least once though.

She was just screaming.
I get attacks when I scream a lot or laugh really hard too. But that's about it. Not when I'm upset or scared or anything like that.

[Fencedude]

She was just screaming.
I get attacks when I scream a lot or laugh really hard too. But that's about it. Not when I'm upset or scared or anything like that.

And you aren't Jessica.

I don't really see where you are going with this objection.

[beatmania]

I don't really see where you are going with this objection.

My point is, don't try to find holes in the story just because she didn't have an asthma attack when you think she should.

[Ty]

Umm ... not every asthma patient get asthma attacks when they become 'emotional'.

When did I ever make this generalization? She suffers an attack during one moment of mental stress, but not during a very similar one that many people would consider to be even more traumatic. I thought that was unusual. The traditional cause of an attack, physical exertion, is never depicted in the show either so the cause of her attacks could be any number of things, couldn't it?

[Draneor]

Maria is annoying. In fact, I think she's the most annoying role Horie Yui has ever played. But there is a line between slapping her silly until she shuts up--uh--justified parental discipline and child abuse. I think Rosa definitely crossed it.

So they are starting again. At first, I thought these episodes were showing the events prior to Legend of the Golden Witch.

Yeah. Definitely child abuse. Although Maria blames it on Beatrice. I'm not sure I buy that explanation. In Higurashi, any evil characters did was a matter of poor choices. If being possessed by Beatrice is the cause, that would mean the choices weren't theirs. I wonder if that's really the case (perhaps she's just influencing them to show the dark side they already have).

Ah, so that's why Beatrice is physically present. Although Battler is pretty dense so I doubt this will work.

Kanon mentioned he was furniture. Time to take a sip of plum wine.

Drink number 2.

I was kind of disappointed that Sayo and George weren't killed in the middle of their romantic moment. Maybe my expectations were too high?

Beatrice definitely revealed her true colors in this episode, although for a moment she seemed almost sad when Shannon said she wouldn't acknowledge her existence. But no matter how evil you are, foot kissing? Really?

[musouka]

Yeah. Definitely child abuse. Although Maria blames it on Beatrice.

Maria wasn't blaming Beatrice. I'm not really sure how you came to that conclusion.

[Draneor]

Maria wasn't blaming Beatrice. I'm not really sure how you came to that conclusion.

Because she said it wasn't Rosa's fault and that she was possessed by the evil witch. What other evil witch is there? I suppose it could be Berkenstal, but at the moment, all evidence points to Beatrice. Well, I suppose it could be some kind of coping mechanism (if Maria is being abused, it might be easier to blame an evil witch rather than accept her mother is actually doing it).

[musouka]

What other evil witch is there?

The evil witch that is possessing Rosa's mother, perhaps?

Maria thinks of Beatrice as a friend, and she's always very clear in naming when she thinks something is Beatrice's doing. Furthermore, Maria believes in witches, not just "a witch."

[Ashyukun]

The evil witch that is possessing Rosa's mother, perhaps?

Maria thinks of Beatrice as a friend, and she's always very clear in naming when she thinks something is Beatrice's doing. Furthermore, Maria believes in witches, not just "a witch."
Yeah, that was how I interpreted it as well- I assumed there was another 'evil' or 'bad' witch as Maria puts it that she assumes is influencing her mother. Whether that actually is the case (and admittedly with Maria's knowledge and sensitivity to these things, it may well be...) or her mother has just cracked and is acting of her own accord remains to be seen.

Definitely an interesting change in the way things are going. Dense as he may be, you do have to admire Battler's tenacity...

[Fencedude]

Huh...wow. That rather monumentally changes the situation, doesn't it?

Also damn Beato, those clothes just take YEARS off your appearance!

[Fencedude]

Maria wasn't blaming Beatrice. I'm not really sure how you came to that conclusion.

Because she said it wasn't Rosa's fault and that she was possessed by the evil witch. What other evil witch is there? I suppose it could be Berkenstal, but at the moment, all evidence points to Beatrice. Well, I suppose it could be some kind of coping mechanism (if Maria is being abused, it might be easier to blame an evil witch rather than accept her mother is actually doing it).

If you focus too much on Beato being "evil" you are probably going to miss some subtleties.

I have a candidate for the "evil" witch referred to by Maria, though we'll see what comes of it.

And its entirely possible that Rosa has mental issues anyway.

[Draneor]

The evil witch that is possessing Rosa's mother, perhaps?

There is no evidence there are any other evil witches present. So I still default to Beatrice at this time. Especially since we know she can influence the actions of others and she enjoys messing with people, even if they consider her a friend (see Shanon). Why wouldn't she want to mess with Maria?

Maria thinks of Beatrice as a friend, and she's always very clear in naming when she thinks something is Beatrice's doing. Furthermore, Maria believes in witches, not just "a witch."

Maria's thought process has never made sense to me. So I think she could not enjoy being hit and yet also like witch who is causing her mother to do it. I mean really. In the first arc Beatrice kills everyone--including her mother. Yet Maria didn't seem to care. Instead, she seemed ecstatic a witch was doing it.

I concede that she didn't specifically say Beatrice did it. But even if Maria doesn't think Beatrice is the cause, I wouldn't be surprised if she was (especially she she conveniently appeared right after the scene).

If you focus too much on Beato being "evil" you are probably going to miss some subtleties.
I'm really not seeing anything else at the moment.
And its entirely possible that Rosa has mental issues anyway.
The entire family seems to have mental issues.

[Fencedude]

Its interesting how things are changed now. There is an obvious and compelling suspect once the murders start.

I'm assuming that Beato's objective is to commit all the murders while maintaining an alibi that would show she can't POSSIBLY have done them through human means.

...I'm somewhat failing to see any way for Battler to "win" this, honestly.

[Draneor]

...I'm somewhat failing to see any way for Battler to "win" this, honestly.

There were actually twenty people, perhaps? He doesn't need to prove Beatrice actual did them, right? Just that they weren't accomplished by Beatrice's magic.

[Fencedude]

...I'm somewhat failing to see any way for Battler to "win" this, honestly.

There were actually twenty people, perhaps?

Well, there are 20 people now.

By all appearances, Beato is exactly what she claims to be, they've even gone out of their way to show this.

So what she needs to do now is commit the murders in a way no human is capable of...and that shouldn't be too hard for her, right?