Shakugan no Shana S discussion thread

[HitokiriShadow]

The OVA sequel to Shana II.

ANN entry (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=10956)


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[Fencedude]

Well that was certainly amusing. No story progression at all, but lots of fun relationship issues.

I think the crowning moment was the "I LOVE YOU WILHELMINA!" from "Shana", which was perfectly followed through in the ending credits.

The OP was also fantastic.

NOW LETS HAVE SEASON THREE!

[relentlessflame]

NOW LETS HAVE SEASON THREE!Not quite yet... It's a 4-volume OVA series (released quarterly), and the new Shana season should likely follow in Fall 2010.

[HitokiriShadow]

Yuuji's method of stopping Wilhelmia in her tracks was hilarious. That was definitely the best part, but the whole episode was a lot of fun and Shana had some very cute moments. One of them giving Yuuji a nasty surprise when they swapped bodies back. "It was only 20 or 30 icecream bars"

Also, since when did Shana have a hammerspace cloth/jacket thing?

The OP is pretty good and while Mami Kawada has certainly done better, I still think I'm going to have to make an addition to my November CDJapan order.

[Fencedude]

Also, since when did Shana have a hammerspace cloth/jacket thing?


Since always, but she usually just stores her sword in there. Its her trademark trenchcoat.

[Sly05]

A silly episode, but hey, it's more Shana which is always a good thing. I agree that the scenes with Wilhelmina were the highlight of the episode.

[HitokiriShadow]

Also, since when did Shana have a hammerspace cloth/jacket thing?


Since always, but she usually just stores her sword in there. Its her trademark trenchcoat.

Oooooh, that's what that was. .... I had forgotten about that. -_-;

[bluesilo]

This was good. I'm not sure this is a compliment or not, but the voice actors never seemed comfortable. I enjoyed it otherwise and hey its more Shana. I forgot how much I missed it. More please.

[Mateo_home]

If there's two things have been done to death and I'm not fond of. It's switching bodies and guy opening door on girls changing. Put the two together on the other hand and it's well executed. I was laughing with Sakai covering Shana's eyes.

Shana laughing hysterically on the floor after they switched back due to Sakai unable to handle all that ice cream was another highlight.

[Ty]

This was good. I'm not sure this is a compliment or not, but the voice actors never seemed comfortable. I enjoyed it otherwise and hey its more Shana. I forgot how much I missed it. More please.

Maybe they needed more than one episode to get back into the roles again. The Shana-tan shorts are still about the best example of voices actors being comfortable and having fun I can think of, so this seems like an odd contrast.

[Nosredna]

I thought the episode was absolutely hilarious, not at all what I expected. It made me really the regular show too though, so I'm with everyone hoping for Season Three.

[something]

Darn OVAs, it's so hard to remember to work them into my schedule. This is definitely overdue.

Episode 1:

- Quite a nice OP, especially with the Shana-exclusive focus.
- And it suddenly strikes me that I have *no* idea when this is set or what it's about. Setup for season three maybe.
- Wow, they're going all out with the ember effect.
- Body swapping. Haha, well... okay. I'll not be expecting anything drastically plot-related then. :sd:
- Oh god. Tsundere Yuuji is just too much. Urusai urusai urusai!
- Huh, is that a new power of Shana's? Totally don't remember her dimensional storage cloak.
- Shana shimapan~ Want moooore. Also, nice shot of her legs, just like in the OP.
- I think the creepiest thing about this is Hino Satoshi using that slightly high pitched voice. :sd:
- Matake in lingerie! Ah, I remember she was my favorite character in season one. =P Shana totally overtook her in season two but I still like her.
- Shana ass! This episode is fantastic.
- I like her shoes too.
- Mumu-chan~! Hahah, felled by the daisuki attack.
- Oh Yuuji-Shana, you know you want a shower badly =D
- Getting so serious... I bet Shana-Yuuji just needs to poo but is holding it in. =P
- Shana's so hot she even wants to make out with her own body!
- "Just a few dozen servings..." XD
- Awwwwwwwwww. The melonpan mountain was adroable.

God damn I have missed her so much. Shana, I love you~~~~! Come back to us for a third season as soon as possible! <3

[something]

This was good. I'm not sure this is a compliment or not, but the voice actors never seemed comfortable.Maybe they needed more than one episode to get back into the roles again.
Wouldn't it be more a result of the fact that they were, uh, trying to be someone else? :sd: When they were in their own bodies they sounded as great as ever.

[HitokiriShadow]

- And it suddenly strikes me that I have *no* idea when this is set or what it's about. Setup for season three maybe.

They seem to take place after the second season. I think the junk they were searching through was wreckage from the stuff that happened at the end of S2. I also thought I read that the OVAs were supposed to exist partially to help bridge the second season with the third, since the anime went its own way again at the end of season 2 (or at least that's what I recall hearing at the time it was airing). Though how body-swapping fluff is supposed to accomplish that, I don't know.

[something]

This certainly doesn't warrant its own thread, so posting here:

Shakugan no Shana-tan G:

- "I'll just do my business here." Ahaha, not what you want someone sitting on your head to say.
- Shakugan no Yuuji-tan. o_O And I'm pretty sure Yuuji-Shana was flashing Shana-Yuuji >_>
- Kazumi can find poles anywhere. And she knows how to shake her ass. Naughty Kazumi!
- The eyecatches are getting increasingly weird.
- I love this Kazumi. An she has an enormous pet beetle...

[something]

They seem to take place after the second season. I think the junk they were searching through was wreckage from the stuff that happened at the end of S2. I also thought I read that the OVAs were supposed to exist partially to help bridge the second season with the third, since the anime went its own way again at the end of season 2 (or at least that's what I recall hearing at the time it was airing). Though how body-swapping fluff is supposed to accomplish that, I don't know.
I imagine the one and only "point" of this episode (besides sexy shots of Shana) was the bit at the end where Shana gets objective confirmation of her feelings for Yuuji, not that she needed it anymore. I'm guessing the other three episodes (argh, no season three for a long time...) will be similar, and not introduce anything exceptionally significant.

Which is just fine. Because I still can't stop thinking of Shana's legs right now.

[Draneor]

Yuji makes a pretty cute Shana, and Shana is pretty aggressive when she's a boy. But when did Shana start wearing shimapan?

[Fencedude]

This episode is all about Wilhelmina. Mostly Wilhelmina being a nervous ninny over Shana suddenly coming home very late from school. Yuji gets recruited (on the suggestion of his mother) to help find out why.

Lots of discussion and runaround from the rest of the cast later, we find out why, and we find out that Shana really does love Wilhelmina very much.

The dish Shana made is interesting, I'd never heard of Pannekoek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannekoek) before, but it sounds quite good from the description. So...I guess Wilhelmina was, once, long ago, Dutch?

And as soon as Shana said that she only knew it was a "special day" for Wilhelmina, I knew what it was, but that didn't make the ultimate payoff any less heartwarming.

[Fencedude]

(Seriously, "Dos"?)

Anyway, it was...insane, as usual. And also, as usual, Kazumi had all the best parts.

[superdry]

- Huh, is that a new power of Shana's? Totally don't remember her dimensional storage cloak.


Wow...how I totally missed this thread.

I haven't watch season 1 in a while, but I think she does use her coat to take stuff out.

Yuji makes a pretty cute Shana, and Shana is pretty aggressive when she's a boy. But when did Shana start wearing shimapan?

Moe-fan pandering at it's best! I don't mind at all...it looks good on her. =D

This episode is all about Wilhelmina. Mostly Wilhelmina being a nervous ninny over Shana suddenly coming home very late from school. Yuji gets recruited (on the suggestion of his mother) to help find out why.

Who would've known that Shana becomes a good cook. Mmmm....pancakes.....

[something]

Episode 2:

- So far, weird episode. Shana is acting a bit strange, so Wilhelmina is worried, and with Chigusa's advice she asks Yuuji to help. It's all played off as being fairly serious but I rather doubt that will last. :sd: It's probably Wilhelmina's birthday soon.
- Hmm Margery is helping Shana?
- Kazumi and Matake too!
- Ah, Yuuji came to the same conclusion I did, but as he notes it makes no real sense to leave him out of it.
- Okay, so it's not a birthday necessarily, but whatever it is is important. And it's cake time! And ponytail time!
- Haha, poor Tanaka. He's not in an enviable position.
- Zettai ryouiki and ponytail, Shana you are the best! <3

Awww. So it ended up being not serious, but also not not serious. Wilhelmina and Yuuji start get get along better and Shana finds out why this day is important to Wilhelmina. So very sweet.

[something]

Special Dos:

- Juicy and Delicious! Just like you, Shana.
- Skateboarding, the true sign of a delinquent.
- Hippo?!
- Very very angry Kazumi. Ruining Yuuji's image of her.
- Sexy zebra Satou?
- These eyecatches are so very bizarre.
- Hah, shake that ass Kazumi.
- ! Kazumi eyecatch! Needs less clothing!
- Haha, Kazumi is so cruel. Als, dung beetle..

Well yep, that was weird.

(Seriously, "Dos"?)
They're just trying their damndest to make sure I have the hardest frickin time keeping all the specials straight!

[Dugan]

How are people here generally seeing these new shows? Especially the ones that aren't simulcast on Crunchyroll? Do you have access to Japanese TV, or do you a method that we don't talk about here?

Or is there another way that I don't know about but would like to?

[HitokiriShadow]

It was amusing to see the entire cast work together to fool Yuuji and Wilhelmia. Especially seeing Ogata working with Shana and Yoshida, since she tends to have difficulty being involved in things. And Shana's face lighting up was adorable.

[HitokiriShadow]

Shana in a Hippo suit! I'd say its surprisingly cute, but its really no surprise that Shana is cute in an animal outfit. And Kazumi is wearing the strangest elephant outfit, but she's pretty hot in it. And, uh, we get the rest of the cast in various odd animal outfits too.

Shana-tan being a brat while Wilhelmia was having a nervous breakdown was kind of amusing, and evil Kazumi is always good for a few laughs, like when she's dealing with the petulant Shana-tan outside the store. Shana-tan and Stalker-Kazumi reacting to Ryuuji having an emotional breakdown with his torn up Shana-tan doll was pretty good.

But the bulk of the special was pretty ho-hum. This was definitely one of the weakest Shana-tan episodes.

[Fencedude]

Oh. Wow. That was...that was really good. Not at all what I expected, I'm really eager to see how this ends up working into the larger picture.

This is obviously from before when Shana met Yuuji, but how long before? Its called "Overture" so I'm guessing it will be leading up to something important...

Possibly one of the best Shana episodes thus far.

[HitokiriShadow]

Cute girl has to be killed by Shana because she has the misfortune of being a torch. ;_;

You know, the first few episodes of the first season were pretty dark, as it dealt with what amounted to innocent people being killed or fading away and being forgotten as if they never existed. That's... pretty depressing, really. Then that was largely shoved aside for the next ~48 episodes. We are constantly reminded of Yuji's problem but he gets to avoid that issue largely, since the whatsitcalled inside him lets him exist permanently, so he can really only be killed in a conventional sense, so its not the same. As such, the situation of most Torches are basically shoved aside, and we never really have a face for them after that. Then this episode starts off with a bit of a sucker punch, reminding us of what's really going on with the Torches.

Anyway, cue title, and that's where I stopped watching about three months ago, because I didn't want to wait three months for the next episode.

Uuuh, Shana is replacing the Torch girl she just killed? Why? Oh, its necessary to investigate a Tomogara for some reason. Pretty interesting scene when Shana is absorbing and seeing the life pattern information of the girl, er, Torch she replaced.

Shana is not a good actress. .... Yeah, she's really bad at this. Alastor, you really need to give her some training in this.

Uh, we managed to go an entire episode without Yuji showing up at all.

That was a fascinating episode. It's the first time the show has really looked at the life of a Torch. Again, its never really treated them as people since Yuji's classmate disappeared in the first episode or two. They've been treated as inanimate objects (in part, because that's how Shana sees them, but also because the series has just been distracted with other things) and in doing so, I've felt the show was really missing something by not dealing with something it should. Especially since Yuji is a Torch, and there's a severe disconnect between how she sees him (as an actual person, at least after the first few episodes) and the other Torches she casually slaughters. Even if the show doesn't want to deal into "What does it mean to be alive" existential questions or the moral questions of killing the Torches just for whatever reason, it needs to deal with it for the sake of Shana's character and her relationship with Yuji.

*reads Fencedude's post* Ooooh, this is before she met Yuji. I just figured she was off doing a mission after seeing the news story about the American guy. That would explain why she never so much as mentioned Yuji's name.

[HitokiriShadow]

"It's really hard to adapt the novels! We can't tell if the seiyuu even understand it!" Lulz.

I think Satou and Tanaka.... embellished their pasts a bit. The Index and Mikoto shirts were pretty amusing. And I'm pretty sure they are intentionally voice acting this segment badly, at least when the other delinquents are accosting Ogawa, which is an amusing touch.

Kugimiya Rie's puyapuyapuya (or whatever that sound was) was hilarious. And LOL Kazumi's "I'm such a cold hearted girl!" And its okay guys, none of the audience remembers Hirai at all either.

Kazumi's conversation with herself was hilarious.

About 2/3rds of this Shana-tan episode was taken up by the Satou/Tanaka stuff which really wasn't very funny. The last minute or so with Yoshida was awesome but the rest, with a few very quick exceptions noted, was pretty dull. Definitely not one of the better Shana-tan episodes.

[Fencedude]

These two episodes together are possibly the absolute best this series has ever been. Incredible, incredible story.

I'm really glad we had these OVAs, if just so that Junko's story could be told.

But at the end...I'm not quite sure what is going on, they didn't part at the end of Second, or anything, right? And why would Yuji be on the bridge regardless?

[HitokiriShadow]

We start off seing what the fight between Junko and her mom was about, and its pretty much what I was expecting. They were kissing.

Yeah, Yukio, that's not suspicious at all. You're an idiot.

How was Shana able to see what was going on with Hamaguchi? It didn't seem like he told her about all that before, but maybe he did. That's the only explanation that makes sense, though its slightly odd that were seeing it the same way she was getting the visual memories from the bracelet, which couldn't possibly be giving her that scene.

ZOMG Smiling Shana! She's clearly faking it, but its so cute!!

Well, that was an interesting reason for the Tomogara to do what it did. Though I don't understand why it didn't just capture Hamaguchi the first time. What on earth was the point of letting him go for a week and then hoping he would come back?

And then after Shana defeats it, there's suddenly about a hundred people from all sorts of countries just lying around on the ground someplace fro a bunch of very confused Japanese medics and police to try to deal with.

Junko says goodbye. ;_;

And then we get a touching ED of Junko and her family.

Then an intriguing post-ED segment. It confirms beyond a doubt that this is before she met Yuji. But this scene is from after the second season and says something about it. She left Yuji at some point (the visuals suggest it was that night from the end of the second season, but that... is hard to swallow) and now they're meeting again. We only see a distant silhouette of Yuji, but... he seems significantly older.

Uhhhh, this damn well better not be the last of Shana we ever get. Because that would be a very cruel note to end things on. "Here's two awesome episodes and we're going to make a vague but very unsatisfying statement about what happened after the second season."

Third season now please, JC Staff. I'm not counting on it though. How well are these OVAs selling anyway?

[HitokiriShadow]

But at the end...I'm not quite sure what is going on, they didn't part at the end of Second, or anything, right? And why would Yuji be on the bridge regardless?

No, they didn't, which is why that scene is utterly mindbogglingly stupid. Why the hell include something like that? Even if they do make a third season, I don't see the point of that scene. And if they don't... what the fuck? After those amazing episodes, *that's* the note you want to end on? A giant "fuck you" to the Shana fans? Seriously, JC Staff, what the hell were you thinking with that?

As for why he'd be on the bridge? Who the hell knows. It's at least 10 years later (judging by his height and build) and they didn't offer the slightest explanation for why they separated in the first place, so anything's possible, but I'm not sure even the writers have any clue.

[Fencedude]

You know, its hard to tell, but from the way things are framed and the like, it sure looks like Shana came out of the city to meet Yuji. So...he's the one who left, and now he's returning?

Thats very strange.

I am pretty sure a third TV series was all but confirmed, and it makes no sense to end like this unless they know they are getting a continuation.

Edit: Also Shana doesn't look too incredibly happy to see him.

[HitokiriShadow]

LOLwhut. Now Shana-tan is part of Yuji's shirt.

And Kazumi gives us what is quite possibly the cutest "Goddamn" ever. The rest of her little spiel wasn't quite as awesome as the previous episode's, mainly because we didn't get her using that awesome low, masculine sounding voice. But she had another scene and the episode as a whole was vastly better than Tri.

Also, I just figured out the naming convention for the OVA Shana-tan specials: Monster Hunter. I knew I one of the Monster Hunter games was called "Tri" and I thought there was one called "Frontier" but wasn't 100% sure. And sure enough, there's a "Monster Hunter G". And, uh, I guess they just decided to 2 in Spanish for no particular reason, as none of them have that as an actual part of their title, at least as far as I can tell from glancing at the wiki page.

[HitokiriShadow]

I am pretty sure a third TV series was all but confirmed, and it makes no sense to end like this unless they know they are getting a continuation.

I don't remember hearing anything except people guessing that it might happen. I hope you're right.

Edit: Also Shana doesn't look too incredibly happy to see him.

Yeah, now that you mention it, that was not the look of a happy reunion.

[HitokiriShadow]

Third season now please, JC Staff. I'm not counting on it though. How well are these OVAs selling anyway?

Okay, after a brief ANN search, I've got... First week sales of 2,350 for volume 4. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-10-05/japan-animation-dvd-ranking-september-27-october-3-part-2) That does not exactly bode well for a 3rd season.

Edit: Oh, right, BD + DVD. *looks at the sales thread over in R2* Okay, it did a bit over 5,000 combined (http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showpost.php?p=1845678&postcount=285). A lot better but still not the kind of numbers that give me great hopes for another 24-26 episodes.

[Fencedude]

Oh yeah, I should watch these.

...ok, that was lame. Next!

[Fencedude]

Definitely better than Tri, but I think the Shana-tan schtick is getting kinda old.

Anyway, it certainly seems that the are planning a new season, and given the OVA production schedule, it seems likely that they'd have an idea of whether or not they're going to do one before they did this episode.

[HitokiriShadow]

Definitely better than Tri, but I think the Shana-tan schtick is getting kinda old.


Yeah, none of the OVA Shana-tans were that good and Tri was especially week. JC Staff still clearly knows how to make these things funny, and the Index ones were even more insane and hilarious than the Shana-tan ones ever were. I think the problem is that they've just milked the Shana-tan ones for most of their worth at this point, as we've now seen mostly the same characters in, what, 9 of the things? Maybe more? It probably didn't help that they did one for every single episode of S and that the episodes themselves gave them a lot less to work with to begin with.

It doesn't help that the Index and Railgun specials have been far more insane completely blown anything Shana-tan ever did out of the water. These are just tame in comparison. Also, I think JC Staff forgot to hand out the drugs and alcohol for these specials. Well, Kawasumi Ayako might have gotten ahold of something for Tri.

[Fencedude]

It doesn't help that the Index and Railgun specials have been far more insane completely blown anything Shana-tan ever did out of the water. These are just tame in comparison. Also, I think JC Staff forgot to hand out the drugs and alcohol for these specials. Well, Kawasumi Ayako might have gotten ahold of something for Tri.

Kawasumi has always been the best part of Shana-tan, and one of the problems here was...Kazumi wasn't really in these episodes, so she wasn't given much to work with.

[something]

Episode 3:

- Itou Kanae buys cake, and walks around, and stuff. Horrible things will presumably happen to her soon.
- ...Or already did. Man, how long has it been since we saw Shana doing her day job? Totally forgot about the whole Torch thing. You know, the reason Flame hazes exist? Anyway really cool scene. They set the mood very well with that girl walking around.

- Now Alastor and Shana somewhat forcefully state the obvious (or, obvious to each other) for the benefit of people who haven't gotten this spiel since season one.
- ...I wonder if this is before she met everyone? Seems really likely.
- Yeah this is definitely from before the series started. I don't even think it's the same city...?

- Shana isn't very subtle. "What happened to me?" She doesn't seem to care much about blending in, heh.
- Little Shana! So that's why the OP is like it is, I guess. And she shows a smile for the first time this episode when she remembers that.
- And right back into being really, really blunt and forceful.
- That's a really large chair in the eyecatch. Or a small Shana.

- Man this episode is depressing. But so damn good.
- MELONPAN!! Do you think she goes through withdrawal when assumes an identity that puts her in a house with no melonpan?
- I like how they illustrate the residual memories and identity of the Torches. Gives some insight into what Shana sees.
- Heh Junko's friends are amusing.
- And finally Shana gets some clues.

- !!! Shana eating cake looks soo happy. It's just deathly adorable. This might be the cutest eating I've ever seen.
- ...Oh Shana, please, please say something nice to the woman. It's just way too heartbreaking if you don't. ;_;
- There. That's all that was needed. A simple sentence, and a smile. Oh Shana...

One thing I find very interesting about this glimpse we're getting into Shana is how the Torches, and the memories of those who knew them, are treated as disposable to Shana. Even if she complicates things with friends at school, or makes their parents sad, it doesn't matter if they're all going to forget her soon anyway.

But it's not that she does it out of spite. Nor do I think she really believes her own words about humans being unimportant and meaningless to her. She treats their waning existences this way because it's the only way she can cope with the cruel task of constantly assuming the identities of dead people and having to use their lives and memories as cover for her investigations. And to know that the people she's interacting with will very soon lose something important.

Being a Flame Haze kind of sucks.

But this episode was absolutely phenomenal.

[something]

Episode 4:

- Now for some backstory on Junko in her final days just to make it even more depressing. Really nicely done though.
- So the bracelet won't tell Shana anything since it was broken before Junko died.

- And a realllllly creepy dude wants the boyfriend's picture. Badly.
- Wow, you have absolutely no danger sense, kid. Just wow.
- Wait, Shana didn't need the bracelet after all? I guess the memory just came to her.

- Now Shana is on a date. What's she going to do when he tries to kiss her? :sd:
- Well she's doing a better job acting now. Holding his hand, smiling.
- Hahaha, she's adorable when asking for juice.
- And Yukio disappears. I wonder if they'll try to make him the Tomogara - honestly I hope not, seems like it'd be a bit hard to sell after they pushed the photographer so hard. Not everything needs to be a twist ending.

- A moving fuzetsu... don't think we've seen that before. Generally anything happening within the fuzetsu is eventually nullified with no change to the outside world, but this this the truck within the fuzetsu is smashing up other things. I wonder if Shana can fix that?
- Heh, damn Shana is verbally amusing this Tomogara. Which doesn't seem to be Yukio after all, thankfully. Just the photographer.
- Oh no it has hostag-- yeah nevermind Shana is too good to let that foil her plans. That guy went down easy.
- "Oh right we were on a truck." XD

- Mom sitting back at home, wanting to meet the boyfriend and thinking about her daughter getting married. ;_;
- And all the bishounen are safe.
- But now it's time for everyone to forget... =/
- That last shot of the mom smiling happily at the cakes. I wonder if she's already forgotten by this point or not? ;_;

Very nice but sad look at Junko's life during the ED.

Post-ED:
- And then... oh god season three where? They've obviously got some material to fill in, considering where they are now and where II ended.

Three was so incredible that I decided after finishing it that if 4 is even a halfway appropriate conclusion I'd absolutely import both of these episodes.

Hell I think I'm going to pick up the ED too.

NEED MORE OH GOD MAKE IT RIGHT NOW JC STAFF. Forget this Index (but not Railgun) stuff, Shana is more important!

[something]

Edit: Oh, right, BD + DVD. *looks at the sales thread over in R2* Okay, it did a bit over 5,000 combined (http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showpost.php?p=1845678&postcount=285). A lot better but still not the kind of numbers that give me great hopes for another 24-26 episodes.
Yeah, don't bother with ANN's numbers for sales. 5k for one episode OVA discs (the first two of which were fluff; good but still fluff) isn't too bad. A TV series would probably sell more, I think.

Also, note that there was major drop-off from Vol. 1 to Vol. 4, which is a shame since 3-4 were so clearly better, but not unexpected. All told the average is 7,243. First episode sold almost 11k.

So I don't think the sales should be much cause for concern.

Also, +1 to Vol. 3 and 4 as soon as I place this Amazon order.

[Fencedude]

One thing I find very interesting about this glimpse we're getting into Shana is how the Torches, and the memories of those who knew them, are treated as disposable to Shana. Even if she complicates things with friends at school, or makes their parents sad, it doesn't matter if they're all going to forget her soon anyway.

But it's not that she does it out of spite. Nor do I think she really believes her own words about humans being unimportant and meaningless to her. She treats their waning existences this way because it's the only way she can cope with the cruel task of constantly assuming the identities of dead people and having to use their lives and memories as cover for her investigations. And to know that the people she's interacting with will very soon lose something important.

Being a Flame Haze kind of sucks.

But this episode was absolutely phenomenal.

While I love the show that we have, imagine an entire series based around this setup. Watching Shana (or some other Flame Haze) moving from town to town, inserting themselves into the life of someone who was devoured by a Tomogara, hunting down the Tomogara, experiencing the last days of a life that in the end no one will remember ever existed.

If done well, like these episodes, it would make for an incredibly powerful, and incredibly heartwrenching, experience.

[something]

No, they didn't, which is why that scene is utterly mindbogglingly stupid. Why the hell include something like that? Even if they do make a third season, I don't see the point of that scene.
I say that scene is the surest sign we have that they plan to do more. I'm also sure that the third season will pick up close to where the second left off and cover the gap and beyond. Or, perhaps they'll go for a more complex presentation where they start with a time jump and fill pieces in gradually over the course of the series until the timelines merge or something like that.

[something]

This is from episode three posts but since I've seen episode four and might comment on stuff from there I'm posting the reply under four.

While I love the show that we have, imagine an entire series based around this setup. Watching Shana (or some other Flame Haze) moving from town to town, inserting themselves into the life of someone who was devoured by a Tomogara, hunting down the Tomogara, experiencing the last days of a life that in the end no one will remember ever existed.
If done well, like these episodes, it would make for an incredibly powerful, and incredibly heartwrenching, experience.
Yeah, I'm kind of thinking that if (no, when! it must be a when!) we get a third season, it'll take me a moment to adjust to the big cast. There was something incredibly moving and effective about seeing Shana all by herself (well, with Alastor), that we can never, ever have in the TV series' setup.

You know, the first few episodes of the first season were pretty dark, as it dealt with what amounted to innocent people being killed or fading away and being forgotten as if they never existed. That's... pretty depressing, really. Then that was largely shoved aside for the next ~48 episodes.
This was a very important glimpse into Shana's personality, at least on par with the flashback to her childhood during the TV series. And in terms of my enjoyment, even more important. It tells us so much about Shana the Flame Haze, something that is easy to lose sight of when she's been busy falling in love and fighting large battles against multiple foes with multiple allies on her side, and with a lot of focus going to Yuuji, and Margery being drunk and all the romantic rivalry and... well, just a lot of things that aren't about Shana nearly so much as this was.

And in focusing on Shana we're able to get a good look, for the first time, at what being a Flame Haze means and about what a lonely existence that is. As you note, the only Torch we've spent much time with since the start of the show is Yuuji, who is a cheater Torch who doesn't fade away. The threat of being extinguished is not the same as seeing it actually happen, and seeing what Shana goes through as she plays the dead girl's role for her poor mother. Even Yukari doesn't begin to compare, because we largely got the reaction through Yuuji, which isn't going to be nearly as moving as what we got here.

Uuuh, Shana is replacing the Torch girl she just killed? Why?
Remember she did the same thing with Hirai Yukari to start season one. I assume it's Flame Haze standard operating procedure, or at leash Shana's.

...On that note, I wonder if she could get away with impersonating a six foot tall, 45 year old man. Is there a limit to how well she can fool people? Both times we've seen her do this it's been a young girl roughly her visible age and size.

I am pretty sure a third TV series was all but confirmed, and it makes no sense to end like this unless they know they are getting a continuation.
I was basically under that impression too. I thought I remembered the news stories back in 2009 when S was announced being of the "this will tide you over until the third season" variety.

Anyway I can't comment too much on the final scene because I unfortunately have had one major development from later in the novels spoiled for me. I don't know how it happens or what follows it or when in the storyline it occurs, and it doesn't tell me anything specific about why Yuuji would be there or what precisely happened between the end of the second season and that scene. But still, it's easy for me to assume too much. Kinda sucks, I'd basically forgotten about the spoiler until this scene indirectly reminded me. :sd: Well, the third season would have jogged my memory on it right away too I assume. Ah well.

[superdry]

I am pretty sure a third TV series was all but confirmed, and it makes no sense to end like this unless they know they are getting a continuation.
I was basically under that impression too. I thought I remembered the news stories back in 2009 when S was announced being of the "this will tide you over until the third season" variety.

Anyway I can't comment too much on the final scene because I unfortunately have had one major development from later in the novels spoiled for me.

I think it's J.C. Staff's intention to do the 3rd season when the light novels are done. Vol. 20 is already out, and I read that Vol. 21 is the first part of the finale. So, to tie things up and hopefully redeem themselves for the mediocre Season 2, JC Staff will probably have the 3rd season out around Fall 2011? From what I've briefly read, things get really exciting and action packed - hopefully that translates well to the anime.

Hmm...the end of Overture Part 2 ends showing Shana and Yuuji in the current time? Interesting setup for the 3rd season then considering Overture should take place before the events of Season 1.

[something]

I think it's J.C. Staff's intention to do the 3rd season when the light novels are done. Vol. 20 is already out, and I read that Vol. 21 is the first part of the finale. So, to tie things up and hopefully redeem themselves for the mediocre Season 2, JC Staff will probably have the 3rd season out around Fall 2011? From what I've briefly read, things get really exciting and action packed - hopefully that translates well to the anime.
Second season was even better than the first so poo poo on you!

Hmm...the end of Overture Part 2 ends showing Shana and Yuuji in the current time? Interesting setup for the 3rd season then considering Overture should take place before the events of Season 1.
The end of Overture takes Shana back into the present, where she briefly narrates the various things she's been through in the TV timeline before suddenly dropping the "then you disappeared and now you're back" bomb.

[HitokiriShadow]

Uuuh, Shana is replacing the Torch girl she just killed? Why?Remember she did the same thing with Hirai Yukari to start season one. I assume it's Flame Haze standard operating procedure, or at leash Shana's.

I was doing a running commentary while I was watching, though it might not have been very apparent since I don't doing any formatting or anything else to indicate it when I do those kinds of posts. Anyway, that was specifically reacting to when Shana first went into Junko's house and they hadn't yet even explained the reason. My question was answered about 30 seconds later, but I didn't note it in my post. It made perfect sense once it was established that she was investigating the Tomogara.

...On that note, I wonder if she could get away with impersonating a six foot tall, 45 year old man. Is there a limit to how well she can fool people? Both times we've seen her do this it's been a young girl roughly her visible age and size.That's.... a very good question. Episode 4 makes it clear that the characters see Shana as she actually appears and I would think that her trying to impersonate someone way outside her age range or of the opposite sex might cause a cognitive dissonance in the people that knew that person that might cause some sort of problems. On the other hand, pictures of Junko had only begun to fade and Shana was already acting way out of character and it didn't faze anyone. It may well be that the existence replacement thing she does overrides all that stuff. This would be one of those things they could address if they did a full series like this, which I too would love to see. Alternatively, that's the kind of thing they could address in Shana-tan, though I'd prefer the other option. Though there's no reason they couldn't do both.

I am pretty sure a third TV series was all but confirmed, and it makes no sense to end like this unless they know they are getting a continuation.
I was basically under that impression too. I thought I remembered the news stories back in 2009 when S was announced being of the "this will tide you over until the third season" variety.I kind of recall hearing something like that, but I had no idea whether that was ever actually officially said, or if it was just fan speculation.

[superdry]

I think it's J.C. Staff's intention to do the 3rd season when the light novels are done. Vol. 20 is already out, and I read that Vol. 21 is the first part of the finale. So, to tie things up and hopefully redeem themselves for the mediocre Season 2, JC Staff will probably have the 3rd season out around Fall 2011? From what I've briefly read, things get really exciting and action packed - hopefully that translates well to the anime.
Second season was even better than the first so poo poo on you!


I found season 2 enjoyable, but the first half felt dragged out a little bit even though it was a good setup for some character development.


The end of Overture takes Shana back into the present, where she briefly narrates the various things she's been through in the TV timeline before suddenly dropping the "then you disappeared and now you're back" bomb.

Ahh...okay. I should then get around to watching both parts of Overture soon. Awesome.

[HitokiriShadow]

I think it's J.C. Staff's intention to do the 3rd season when the light novels are done. Vol. 20 is already out, and I read that Vol. 21 is the first part of the finale. So, to tie things up and hopefully redeem themselves for the mediocre Season 2, JC Staff will probably have the 3rd season out around Fall 2011? From what I've briefly read, things get really exciting and action packed - hopefully that translates well to the anime.

There were only a couple of episodes in season 2 in which I really wished the show would move on already. One was the Margery Daw flashback two-parter, which, if I recall correctly, really didn't add anything at all to the story and was rather dull. I largely liked the stuff with Hecate's clone doll thing (whatever her name was) and I think there was maybe one or two episodes were it started to feel like the show was spinning its wheels and really needed to do something. But the first half was good and the second half was awesome and far better than season 1.

That said, I was under the impression that season 2 once again made crap up for the last arc, causing potential problems (again!) if/when they do a third season. Is that correct or am I misunderstanding? If they did make things up, that seems... highly problematic, given how those last 2-3 episodes tied very heavily into other long term plot elements.

[something]

Just gonna post on Tri and Frontier in one post.

Tri
- "It's difficult to adapt the novels! Even the seiyuu don't understand!"
- And then everyone is really harsh on... those two dudes. Like hell would I remember their names.
- Yeah I agree with the others, don't care about their pasts at all!
- Index and Mikoto shirts...

Frontier
- I was wondering how bumping into something that small would work out, but she becomes his shirt? Heh.
- And she can still eat sushi...
- Kazumi bounces.
- And is amusing when doing a faux-cutesy voice.
- She's cosplaying an eggplant? o_O
- "Goddamn!" And wow her beetle isn't looking so good.

[TJR]

That said, I was under the impression that season 2 once again made crap up for the last arc, causing potential problems (again!) if/when they do a third season. Is that correct or am I misunderstanding? If they did make things up, that seems... highly problematic, given how those last 2-3 episodes tied very heavily into other long term plot elements.

That's one of the complaints from light novel readers. However, the anime writers do create each season in consultation with the author (who is credited as a story supervisor and publicly endorses the series during fan events), so they should be able to work something out.

One thing about Shana is that it isn't a light novel adaptation in the traditional sense. Many series attempt a relatively faithful translation from novel to screen (similar scene to scene progression, with parts changed or removed for time/complexity reasons). However, the people who handled Shana opted to develop their own continuity, with the novel content merely serving as a guideline as to how they should develop the characters and progress the plot.

Consequently, the show is vastly different from the source. Particularly in the second season, the writers shed many of the light novel roots, which made the show much easier to follow (Season 1 was already a massive rearrangement, but it nevertheless suffered from bogged pacing and confusing exposition). The new S2 material also allowed for a cohesive plot and central theme that wouldn't exist if they stuck to the source (contrast this with Index S1, where arcs are totally disparate, where there's no unifying theme, and where there's no overall structure. The show just stops at an arbitrary cut-off point, with no proper buildup, climax, and resolution). However, it's clear that the writers further alienated some fans in the process.

Adapting Shana in this style also allowed them to keep up with the source (perhaps a bit too well.....by the time Season 2 had finished its run, they blew through almost all available material, mainly by selecting limited sections of a novel to adapt and then throwing everything else out), which is always a concern given the limited shelf life of most series. With faithful adaptation, a 24-26 episode sweep allows a team to cover perhaps 5-6 novels in one season. This is fine for most series, but long-running titles might be in danger of never being completely animated. After all, it's rare for any otaku show to maintain momentum for more than 2-3 seasons.

[Westlo]

No, they didn't, which is why that scene is utterly mindbogglingly stupid. Why the hell include something like that? Even if they do make a third season, I don't see the point of that scene. And if they don't... what the fuck? After those amazing episodes, *that's* the note you want to end on? A giant "fuck you" to the Shana fans? Seriously, JC Staff, what the hell were you thinking with that?

As for why he'd be on the bridge? Who the hell knows. It's at least 10 years later (judging by his height and build) and they didn't offer the slightest explanation for why they separated in the first place, so anything's possible, but I'm not sure even the writers have any clue.

That scene pretty much means 3rd season is coming 100%. I don't know if they'll retcon or change the last moments of s2 or have a mini arc to lead into that but the bridge scene will be absolutely amazing when animated. Though I'm sure a lot of people here won't like what happens...

[Fencedude]

Whether we will or not, we'd certainly prefer you not drop hints.