Why "old school" anime are so underrated?

[kashim]

Take this as a "delirium" of a 30 years old first generation italian Otaku...

In the last day of 2009, after write in this forum some messages about collecting Laserdiscs, i started wondering "Why "old school" anime are so underrated?".

I'm not talking about all "old school anime", i'm just talking about good shows.

I mean, why younger japanimation fans don't want, even refuse, to explore the history of the animation world they like so much?

Is the "old" animation? Is the character design? Is the story? Is just the style?

Anime became old so fast that a 10 years old show is just a thing good only to be throw in the garbage?

[VinceA]

A bit might be the dated animation, a bit might be that 'kids' just want to see new things even if it's not the best.

[Buckeye]

Generally, these titles fall under the category of being hardly the usual types. Since they are different from what people are used to watching that they do not get as much respect.

[BigPants]

I always chalked it up to if you started watching anime well into the digital age, a lot of the cel animation/colors probably paled in comparison enough that they didn't even want to give it a chance.

I can think of people who don't watch anything before 2000, because "it all looks like ass."

[Isuzu Inugami]

I can think of people who don't watch anything before 2000, because "it all looks like ass."

Yeah, I've heard that sort of thing too. Which drives me up a wall, because I find a lot of digital animation can come off looking flat and oversimplified--look at old-school complexly detailed "city in space" style spaceships of old, and compare to the smooth, weightless CG things of today; or the bizarrely colorful matte backgrounds you used to see all the time and the more-often-than-not unintersting backgrounds of today. A certain amount of this is probably just changing fashion in anime art, but the technology influences that too.

Also, what the hell are those kids doing on my lawn!

But I have to admit, I find the story and character depth of modern anime is often a lot deeper and more satisfying that the old-school stuff.

[SpoilerHappy]

Well, I'm in my forties, and I'll even confess to preferring the newer stuff. For me it's a combination of animation and sound quality, and a change in taste. Having grown up watching Star Blazers, Robotech, Voltron, Battle of the Planets, and then later Sailor Moon, I have a lot of respect for the old shows. But of those five, Sailor Moon is the only one really on my shelf.

While story is important to me, it's one of many factors including animation quality and style, character design, sound, etc. I'm a bit ashamed to admin that I'm a sucker for bright and shiny. More modern character design, and a bit less 'epic' quality to the stories work better for me - so Kiddy Grade sits on my shelf and Macross does not.

With the advent of high-def, it's only gotten worse - I pulled Last Exile (EDIT: Ack, not Last Exile, make that Kiddy Grade instead) off my shelf to watch a little of and was sorely disappointed to be reminded it wasn't in 16:9. I love the surround sound in Ghost in the Shell:Standalone Complex; I don't know what I'd do with a mono show.

I certainly have older shows like Sailor Moon and Fushigi Yugi and also have all the Studio Ghibli releases (which being movies are wide format), but because for me they are favorite classics that I can't live without. Unfortunately anything before the 90's really gets marked down in my book not necessarily due to story, but the other factors.

Oh - maybe a little unrelated - but the fact that every old anime is also out-of-print also means they just don't get very much awareness anyways....

[something]

Old things get viewed less because they're old. That is to say:

They're often harder to find, whether because they're OOP, or never got licensed and have no available fansubs, or whatever. A currently airing series is going to be much more available through fansubs or Crunchyroll or other services. And newer licensed series will have easier to find DVDs on the home video front.

They're not marketed much/at all because they're no longer an active commercial product most of the time. Companies have limited ad budgets, so it would be suicidal to devote resources to product that's already long since run its course when you have thousands of brand new discs in stores that need to be moved and make a profit. Unless said old show is a xth anniversary rerelease being pushed again or whatever.

They're less likely to come to the attention of by any given fan today as they get older. When a show is airing right now and countless thousands of people are watching it right now, there is a very good chance that I will hear about it. If a show aired in 1982, it may still have had thousands of people watch it but they watched it over a period of 27 years. The chance that any significant number of them are watching and talking about it at any given moment today is far lower.

They're competing with a deluge of current shows every season. When 100+ new TV anime air every year, most fans are totally booked solid just keeping up with the currently airing stuff. Personally, I tried 22 and plan to finish 20 shows from Fall 2009 alone. I enjoy the hell out of it so I wouldn't have it any other way, but it does keep me pretty busy. I never even touch my DVD backlog anymore.

See? I didn't even need to get into anything subjective. No mention of art styles, storytelling quality, or insults about how "kids today" can't handle the "classics" or how "old farts" can't get past their "nostalgic crap". There are plenty of perfectly legitimate, objective reasons why "old (school)" anime isn't going to be at the top of many current or younger fans' viewing schedules. Subjective reasons are hugely important but I really think it's the points above that kill older stuff before subjective feelings are even invoked.

And even when you do talk about the subjective stuff, you really have to understand that older anime was made with different sensibilities in mind. A show from 1975 was made to appeal to people from 1975. While good art is "timeless" in theory, in reality there will always be themes and expectations and a social climate that has some impact on how a show is made and received. These circumstances are never "better" or "worse" in different times, they simply are what they are.

[Betenoire]

And even when you do talk about the subjective stuff, you really have to understand that older anime was made with different sensibilities in mind. A show from 1975 was made to appeal to people from 1975. While good art is "timeless" in theory, in reality there will always be themes and expectations and a social climate that has some impact on how a show is made and received. These circumstances are never "better" or "worse" in different times, they simply are what they are.

This is a more eloquent summery of what I was going to write. Also the art itself doesn't change but we are talking more about it's reception as more a pop thing, and that clearly varies every few years. Are Impressionist pieces or art still seen as big among a group of people? Yes, but it doesn't hold public sway like it once did. Grunge music isn't the powerhouse it once was, Motown is mostly relegated to nostalgia Classical is often elevator music. Some people find that older works-music, films, animation or what have you speak to them in a way that either the newer stuff doesn't or that some other people just don't see. Of course the flip side also applies of people who think that the past and it's products are better than anything produced today (often because of the time they associate the work with) without seeing that the newer stuff does have merits sometimes.

[Suwako Moriya]

As long as we're on the subject of older anime, one question that comes to mind is this. Of the various older shows a person watched, how many of them did the person first try when the shows were still relatively new?

It's a lot easier to get into a series from 1989 if you were watching it back in 1989 as opposed to trying it today. Speaking of which let's create an example scenario.

Say X is a fan of a series from 1989 and wants people from 2009 to give it a chance. Some of them are like "All right, I'll try it" and others are like "Anything from 89 is too old" However that begs the question. Back in 1989 would X have been willing to give a series from 1969 a chance?

[Herron]

I think Something said it best. Once a certain amount of time passes media falls to the wayside and only a small few stay in the public mind. It's not only anime but all media.

What's new is fresh exciting, even if it's just the same as something that came before it most have forgotten or that version has gone stale. Most people don't have time to court two masters, the old and the new, so most pick to watch the newly polished show because it's deemed better.

A lot of young people aren't keen on looking back, because they don't have much to look back on. You can't really fault them for that. When they get older they'll look back and wonder why no ones appreciating the classics of 2010! :laugh:

I'm almost 30, but I've been loving watching the Retro movies and TV shows on RTV and THIS networks on broadcast TV. These shows were either before my time or I was really too young to even care about them. So I'm sure some young fans would like to watch the anime classics but they really aren't given the chance too.

[Fencedude]

Being old does not, necessarily, make a show good.

[Konoha]

I'd love to hear how the situation is in Italy, if you don't mind sharing :)

As for reasons, there have been a lot of good ones mentioned, which I'd like to chime in on.

One is community. As things like facebook, livejournal and the like get ever more popular, people get used to enjoying and sharing things together online, and it's very easy to find an online fanbase for a current show that's still thriving. A large majority of those people will move on once the work is finished, because the discussion has in their minds all been had and there are new things to discuss.

Except fanfic writers. Fanfic writers are happy to stick with things that are over, as long as they get new ideas.

For example, this week I finished Witch Hunter Robin for the first time, because I received it for Christmas. After I finished, I wanted to chat about it, so I found a forum and read lots of discussion about it - but most of that was from 2006 and earlier, and even the offtopic section of said forum hadn't had a post in months.

The, uh, 'pretty boy' factor. Not all of us female anime fans are into yaoi, but many are, even if only slightly. The way characters looked has changed a lot over the years, and a fair chunk of fandom now gets into a show in part because of how the boys look, just like male anime fans will take a look at how cute the girls are - and then the community takes off as people pick their favorite pairings (whether there is any basis for it in the show or not) look for evidence, debate over it in good humor, etc. That is not to say the show is not being watched for its own merits, but after the episode is over there's fanfic, doujinshi, and other fangirls to keep the interest going until the next episode airs or manga chapter emerges. Even in Japan, there's not much doujinshi still coming out for older things, with the exception of Gundam Wing and maybe Saint Seiya. This also goes for shows without yaoi as well. The pairing wars in those fandoms can be more vicious ^^;

The above goes for other products related to the show - if you like the music, you can get excited for an upcoming soundtrack or character album. If you watch a show like, say, Vampire Princess Miyu or Bubblegum Crisis, you think "man, that music was cool!! ...and it's looooong out of print... :()

Which leads to another point, the staff and cast involved. It's much easier to get someone to watch something by saying "it has Koyasu/Suwabe/Midorikawa Hikaru in it!" than by saying, "but but, Chiba Shigeru and Futamata Issei!"

And of course, availability. For people in the US, 95% of the older stuff is out of print, so the best way to see it is through downloads, or if you have a netflix account (they still have a LOT of oop anime). However, if you want to explore the older stuff, there's not that much beyond rips of what came out along with a few older shoujo classics and the like. Unless you are fairly comfortable with Japanese and don't mind raws, which increases the pool a bit. But the stuff you'll find online coming out subtitled will almost always be current within a few seasons. For the younger fans (those that don't spend money), they will take what is offered for free for download or streaming, no effort involved.

And of course, being a passing fad. Many of the people who were fans in the 90s, buying and discussing things like Gall Force and Record of Lodoss War, have left the fandom and pursued other interests. Often, if you talk to them, they'll smile and mention how great show X was, but they aren't interested in coming back.

And I have no idea how much this is a factor, but since the sterotype of the oldschool fan is the kind of scary guy in his 30s-40s, I wonder if that scares some of the girls off?

[ilmaestro]

Unfortunately, this situation is by no means unique to anime. People just can't be bothered, apart from the old fans who can't see why people only watch/play/read/listen to the derivative product of the day. Been like this for hundreds of years, not gonna change any time soon.

[Endymion]

With the advent of high-def, it's only gotten worse - I pulled Last Exile off my shelf to watch a little of and was sorely disappointed to be reminded it wasn't in 16:9.

...but Last Exile is in 16:9 just not HD.

[Fencedude]

With the advent of high-def, it's only gotten worse - I pulled Last Exile off my shelf to watch a little of and was sorely disappointed to be reminded it wasn't in 16:9.

...but Last Exile is in 16:9 just not HD.

Yeah, GONZO had been doing 16:9 (though initially not anamorphic, and then anamorphic but not HD) since 2000.

[Njr Scrawl]

Being old does not, necessarily, make a show good.

Neither does being new.

[SpoilerHappy]

With the advent of high-def, it's only gotten worse - I pulled Last Exile off my shelf to watch a little of and was sorely disappointed to be reminded it wasn't in 16:9.

...but Last Exile is in 16:9 just not HD.

Yeah, GONZO had been doing 16:9 (though initially not anamorphic, and then anamorphic but not HD) since 2000.

Sorry, I'm just stupid on that one....:sweat: Don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that. Ah, checking - Last Exile was in Stereo and not surround, that was what I was lamenting.... Kiddy Grade is in 4:3.

[ibby]

My take on this subject is that it comes down to personal interest, time and money. From a anime production point of view it's easier for anime Studio's to hype and advertise their shows to people nowdays due to advances in technology, though if the current anime market aren't catering to customers taste's, then viewers/the audience would look to other means to get their anime fix or entertainment fix.

I still think oldschool anime isn't underrated, I think that as the world has got faster, people have become more selective in their anime, that's all. Slightly off-topic, I know a person calling themselves Anime King of the East, and this person is building a collection of anime, though starting with the classics first, and then moving to the modern classics if there are any to their respective anime collection.

[Prede]

As Justin Sevakis pointed out when he started his burried treasure column at ANN, the idea that "all new anime fans only watch new stuff and nothing else" is sort of flawed. The classics like NGE, Akira, and Cowboy Bebop etc are watched by almost everyone regardless of when they got into fandom. So already you can see people do still watch/buy older shows. But people don't want to go searching for older stuff to watch, but if there's a fanbase for it, and people keep saying "it's a good show" and people keep recommending it, some will watch. They need to be "guided" toward shows to watch. They have no inspiration to actively seek out stuff, but if someone says "x" is a good show, they might give it a shot. But over the years there have been countless other hits/classics, that now you mention the name and very few people even heard of it. So I do get what you mean. It is kind of sad, because there are COUNTLESS amazing shows that are "old", and they should be watched more ;). It's sad when a show is forgetten about when it's really good...but so it goes.

It's all this emphasis on "what's new, hot, and still airing in Japan". The whole "fansub" community lives on this, watching whatever just came out, ASAP, no matter what. It breathes this emphasis on watching "new stuff". It makes people want to watch what's new NOW, even if you have to watch the raws, because waiting 2 hours for the fansubs is too long for you! And so this pushes more and more people to think like this, to a degree. This plays a big role IMO. People just like to focus on that. But it's the same in all mediums to a degree, I mean most people get hyped up over the new movie that's coming out next week, not something that came out 25 years ago. And people don't go around talking about an episode of some TV series that aired 34 years ago, but they do talk about that newest episode of Lost or whatever. Same in anime, everyone's talking about the new stuff, so why not join in?

But the different tastes, for different people matters as well. Some people just don't like a lot of older stuff, so they are not about to waste time watching things they don't like, or won't like that much, when they can watch the next episode of that show that's currently airing in Japan. Vice versa for the old school fans too.

There are countless reasons for this, and even more reasons in anime. Dated animation, difference in storytelling, and just "not knowing what exactly to watch" all play a part. Many people don't actively seek out older stuff to watch, and if they don't hear anything about older titles, then they will watch whatever they do hear about (i.e. a few classics), and everything else they watch will be new and shiny. Also add into this a lot of older fans already watched all the old things that they want to see, so they have nothing else too watch but newer shows...

As for me, I'm a huge believer of "new shows are not inherently better then older shows" and vice versa. There are good shows, and there are bad shows, end of sentence. The time it aired means nothing, and a show is new to me if I never saw it before, not if it just aired 5 minutes ago. And so I watch old shows, new shows, and whatever else. I just watch what appeals to me, not whatever's airing THIS MINUTE (I wait for the DVDs or the legal streamings), and not ONLY THE OLD STUFF. Why cut off whole time periods, when there are countless stuff to watch out there? But that's just me. I feel everyone should do whatever they want to, watch whatever they feel like. But it is a pitty to just never watch anything old. You miss out on a lot. Same goes for not watching new stuff, every year there are more and more amazing shows, and to miss on them is a shame as well. I don't care who you are, there's gata be something new that you will like. And I don't care who you are, there's also something old that you haven't seen that you would love. Once in awhile it's worth looking for these things, but that takes some effert. But it's worth it when you find a gem, new or old ;) .

The problem is keeping up with what's newly coming out on DVD, what's kinda old, but still in print/being re-released, buying old stuff before it goes OOP, and finding some OOP stuff and buying it before you have to pay insane asylum prices for it on amazon or ebay ;) . Also watching everything you buy is a little tough.

[Mr. Nail Bat]

The question the original poster asks is an almost perfect example of 'begging the question.'