Harem show where the Main Guy isn't a Hapless Idiot? [Archive]

Funkatron

01-01-2010, 01:29 PM

Sensuifu

01-01-2010, 01:45 PM

the main guys in the Key (Air, Kanon, Clannad) shows.

Draneor

01-01-2010, 02:07 PM

the main guys in the Key (Air, Kanon, Clannad) shows.

These aren't harems.

Westlo

01-01-2010, 02:17 PM

Read the Unbalance X Unbalance manga. I'll love to see it adapted into an anime one day but after what Sunrise did to KuroKami from the same author...

Gatts

01-01-2010, 02:19 PM

We aren't counting Key series?

Are we allowed to go back to Ranma 1/2... Ranma was a jerk, but not an idiot.

Technically Tenchi wasn't a letch/pervert/idiot, but he was a bit goofy, so I don't know if he'd pass your requirements. That and you know why the girls liked him. The lineage.

I guess you could say Happy Lesson, but it tried to pretend it wasn't a harem series.

I don't know about it happening all of the way through, but the first two episodes of Nyan Koi had a non-dippy harem lead.

malazar

01-01-2010, 02:22 PM

I would say that Makoto in El-Hazard wasn't a hapless idiot by any means. At the same time, he seemed to have his mind made up pretty early about which woman he wanted, so I am not sure if he qualifies.

relentlessflame

01-01-2010, 02:27 PM

Well, it sort of depends on what you're looking for in a "Harem show".

If you're talking about shounen romantic comedies (what most people commonly think of as "harem anime"), you have to remember that the main point is the "tease". So the main protagonist always has to be at some sort of disadvantage, or it'd be "too easy" and the story would end. The disadvantage could be that he's a total klutz with the ladies, or it could be that he's totally clueless about romance, or it could simply be bad timing or luck. But since the destination of shounen romantic comedies is almost always the confession (and not the relationship), they're going to stretch things out as long as possible.

So probably you'd have to start looking for shows that aren't so squarely in the shounen romantic comedy space, and some probably wouldn't even define as "harem anime". Like for example, the various Key anime that were suggested -- many would say they're not "harem anime" because they're based on true love visual novels, but the anime has to show all the different stories in one go, so it ends up being "haremesque" (multiple girls falling for one guy to some degree). There are also a bunch of other shows that have "haremesque" elements, but are not "harem anime" -- for example (perhaps controversial) Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu. I'm also thinking something like Futakoi Alternative might be worth your time, or maybe something like Mahoraba -- again, things that are not squarely in the "harem" space, but have things in common with it. This past year's Toradora! could be mistaken as a harem anime at first glance, but it really isn't. Lamune is one of the better visual novel adaptations that no one watched, and again isn't really harem in the same way as the Key stories aren't "harem".

In the end, though, the reason why many "harem shows" have those clueless protagonists is because that's part of the comedy. The various hijinks that ensue are what make people laugh. If not for that, the shows would probably be a lot more serious, and there comes a point when it stops fitting the "harem" moniker at all.

One Vorlon

01-01-2010, 02:27 PM

. . .
Question is, has there been any harem anime where the main guy is actually competent? Where he isn't a bumbling oaf who conveniently barges in when a lady is undressing or doesn't manage to grope a girls breasts whether by accident or otherwise and actually attracts girls with charm/intelligence/wits/nice guy aura?
Although not generally recognized as a harem title, Aquarian Age would fit your requirements. The male lead is the singer in a band, and his supernatural abilities include being highly attractive to supernaturally gifted ladies. Although there is little doubt as to which girl he'll end up with, at one point there are four (major) female characters romantically interested in him, another two who are professionally interested in him, and a whole host of secondary females groupies - and all of them are willling to fight for him. At the same time, he's a perfect gentleman - I'm not sure he even got around to actually kissing anyone.

Then, of course, there's always the classic Tenchi Muyo, where the protagonist actually seemed to be embarrassed that he had five different girls chasing him - most of whom he won over by just being a nice guy (such as listening to their problems, carrying them home when they twist an ankle, or putting up with their insane experiments). Some people find him a bit milquetoast, but there's nary a grope in sight - and he has near god-like power

Edit - I see someone else already mentioned Tenchi. Oh well - can't always be first

Herron

01-01-2010, 02:36 PM

Yeah I can't suggest a straight harem but in Kimi ga Nozumu Eien the male lead is rather realistic in that he's not perfect but his not a complete dumbass. (Though that depends on who your asking and your feelings about his actions)

Again it's not really harem and is based on a visual novel like the Key shows. Still I thought it was a really good relationship anime.

ilmaestro

01-01-2010, 02:46 PM

Negima. I mean, yeah, he does some of the cliche stuff, but he's certainly not an idiot.

Sensuifu

01-01-2010, 02:51 PM

We aren't counting Key series?

I always thought the Key series fell under harem, or at least as a sub-genre.

Technically Tenchi wasn't a letch/pervert/idiot, but he was a bit goofy, so I don't know if he's pass your requirements. That and you know why the girls liked him. The lineage.right. Tenchi just didn't entertain the situations where the girls threw themselves on him. He might seem indecisive compared to Seina from GXP, but both characters could be considered victims of situational humor more than just being inherently lame.

Fencedude

01-01-2010, 02:52 PM

Sugisaki Ken from Seitokai no Ichizon

Fencedude

01-01-2010, 02:53 PM

I always thought the Key series fell under harem, or at least as a sub-genre.

You could make the argument for Kanon, but not Air or Clannad. Definitely not Air.

Sensuifu

01-01-2010, 02:54 PM

Well, it sort of depends on what you're looking for in a "Harem show".

If you're talking about shounen romantic comedies (what most people commonly think of as "harem anime"), you have to remember that the main point is the "tease". So the main protagonist always has to be at some sort of disadvantage, or it'd be "too easy" and the story would end. The disadvantage could be that he's a total klutz with the ladies, or it could be that he's totally clueless about romance, or it could simply be bad timing or luck. But since the destination of shounen romantic comedies is almost always the confession (and not the relationship), they're going to stretch things out as long as possible.

a la School Rumble, Negima, Hanaukyo Maid Tai, etc.

So probably you'd have to start looking for shows that aren't so squarely in the shounen romantic comedy space, and some probably wouldn't even define as "harem anime". Like for example, the various Key anime that were suggested -- many would say they're not "harem anime" because they're based on true love visual novels, but the anime has to show all the different stories in one go, so it ends up being "haremesque" (multiple girls falling for one guy to some degree). There are also a bunch of other shows that have "haremesque" elements, but are not "harem anime" -- for example (perhaps controversial) Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu. I'm also thinking something like Futakoi Alternative might be worth your time, or maybe something like Mahoraba -- again, things that are not squarely in the "harem" space, but have things in common with it. And then you get other examples such as Golden Boy. GB can be categorized as harem, but the series focuses on one particular female encounter independently, until everyone comes together at the end.
Utawarerumono is another one. The male protagonist is nothing like the typical bumbling loser, but the show does carry some harem'esque themes to it.

In the end, though, the reason why many "harem shows" have those clueless protagonists is because that's part of the comedy. The various hijinks that ensue are what make people laugh. If not for that, the shows would probably be a lot more serious, and there comes a point when it stops fitting the "harem" moniker at all.case in point...True Tears, although it's categorized as one as a sub-genre.

Fencedude

01-01-2010, 02:55 PM

Sensuifu

01-01-2010, 03:11 PM

I always thought the Key series fell under harem, or at least as a sub-genre.

You could make the argument for Kanon, but not Air or Clannad. Definitely not Air.

I take that back; yes Air is not harem. However, thematically as the TV series plays out, I can see how Clannad fits 'harem'. I understand how it's not considered as one by others, but as exampled by relentless' interpretation of the varying degrees of the term, I still see how the situational overlaps of each individual relationship makes the show have that haremesque theme to it.

mitamaking

01-01-2010, 03:11 PM

Trust me on this, stick with Love Hina, just trust me, he is a hapless idiot at the beginning but he grows a lot.

At the beginning, I always thought Tenchi and Mahoraba(it is a 2 person harem) work.

Sensuifu

01-01-2010, 03:12 PM

case in point...True Tears, although it's categorized as one as a sub-genre.

True Tears wasn't even a harem to begin with.

You need more than several girls interested in a single guy for it to be a "harem" show.

huh, you're right. I forgot that three girls were interested in one guy except there was also the guy's best friend :laugh:.

Fencedude

01-01-2010, 03:12 PM

Trust me on this, stick with Love Hina, just trust me, he is a hapless idiot at the beginning but he grows a lot.

Read the manga instead.

Fencedude

01-01-2010, 03:13 PM

I take that back; yes Air is not harem. However, thematically as the TV series plays out, I can see how Clannad fits 'harem'. I understand how it's not considered as one by others, but as exampled by relentless' interpretation of the varying degrees of the term, I still see how the situational overlaps of each individual relationship makes the show have that haremesque theme to it.

Clannad only had one possible ending after the first five minutes of episode 1. Its not a harem.

Sensuifu

01-01-2010, 03:17 PM

Suwako Moriya

01-01-2010, 03:20 PM

You need more than several girls interested in a single guy for it to be a "harem" show.

On that note, it seems most so called "harem" series don't even reach the actual harem stage anyway. By that I mean they have the guy choose multiple girls and the said multiple girls accept the idea of sharing. Either the guy has chosen a single girl or the said girls are still competing anyway. Heck in many cases even if the guy hasn't yet chosen the single girl, they make the winner beyond blatant.

Njr Scrawl

01-01-2010, 03:21 PM

City Hunter. Shinjuku's female population is his harem. :)

Sensuifu

01-01-2010, 03:23 PM

DenpaWa

01-01-2010, 03:27 PM

Onegai Twins. At one point he had three girls showing definite interest and he was anything but stupid.

Suwako Moriya

01-01-2010, 03:35 PM

so how would Tenchi in Tokyo be categorized?

I'm not sure because I didn't hate myself enough to complete that series.:sweat: That and my memory of it is vague anyway.

Draneor

01-01-2010, 03:54 PM

You need more than several girls interested in a single guy for it to be a "harem" show.

One thing that frustrates me is the tendency to call any anime with more than two girls interested in one guy as harem. By that definition Inuyasha is a harem not to mention Shana, Full Metal Panic, or Fate/Stay Night. Heck, so is Fruits Basket. But these anime have basically nothing in common structurally (not to mention there are very few anime with a romance aspect that doesn't involve a love triangle, however brief).

The structure of an original work puts certain constraints on adaptations that aren't a result of genre. Almost all light novels have a main heroine and a love rival. Almost all visual novels have multiple heroines but you can only pursue multiple ones at the same time in a few (Utawarerumono, for example). Adaptations imposes certain boundaries on an anime. For example, adapting a 4-koma results in a certain kind of anime. Anime based on 4-koma don't focus on jokes and cuteness because they're trying to be a "moe anime," but instead because they're based on a four-paneled comic that is not as conducive to long narratives as manga is. You can certainly impose that formula on an adaptation of a medium, but I think it's a stretch to classify all light novel or visual novel adaptations as harems. Basically, Shuffle is a pretty harem-like anime. Clannad really isn't. And so forth.

There is a genre of Japanese pop literature called harem (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%8F%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AC%E3%83%A0%E7%B3%BB%E4%B D%9C%E5%93%81). Typical anime that fall into this category include Ichigo 100%, Love Hina, Rosario + Vampire, Tenchi Muyo, and To LOVEる. They're typically shounen wish-fulfillment comedies where romance comes second and jokes and fan service are prioritized. There are seinen harems, like Ai Yori Aoshi, but they tend to be somewhat different. The reason these are harems is they follow an established formula that produces a work with a certain structure. If it's not trying to follow that formula, it's not a harem.

Fencedude

01-01-2010, 03:58 PM

Almost all light novels have a main heroine and a love rival. Almost all visual novels have multiple heroines but you can only pursue multiple ones at the same time in a few (Utawarerumono, for example).

Forever in search of the elusive, mythical "HAREM END"

Draneor

01-01-2010, 04:01 PM

Forever in search of the elusive, mythical "HAREM END"

I've never seen it. ;_;

The Great Bear

01-01-2010, 04:06 PM

so how would Tenchi in Tokyo be categorized?

I think the technical term is "crap."

An important word in any critic's vocabulary.

…

As for the OP's question, I think part of the problem is that with "harem" shows, the focus is intentionally on the women. Both the writers' focus and where the production staff wishes the audience's focus to be. Therefore, it's almost by design that the male lead should be a hapless idiot, in order to heighten the out-sized personalities of the women.

It even applies in reverse. Take Hanasakeru Seishōnen for example. While maybe Kajika is not hapless, she is certainly an idiot. A cringe-inducing-I-refuse-to-watch-any-more-of-this-crap idiot.

…

While there are exceptions, as pointed about above in shows that are marginally harem or have harem elements, in general, you're not really going to find "harem" shows that do not have some variety of idiot as the focus for the harem's attention, since the spotlight is meant to be shone on the harem members, not their object of affection, which could be a lamppost for all that anyone cares.

traviskeshav

01-01-2010, 04:08 PM

Forever in search of the elusive, mythical "HAREM END"

I've never seen it. ;_;

It's a tricky proposition. Remember when Tomoya tried to "taste the cooking" of all the girls in episode 18, when Nagisa wasn't around? Didn't turn out well.

Herron

01-01-2010, 04:18 PM

Did anyone mention Familar of Zero... it's sort of haremish... and the main guy isn't really dumb at all.

Not sure if it falls in the harem genre or more of a sub genre though. But 3 ladies seem to like the guy.

Hm, it was a fun series I need to watch my set again.

Draneor

01-01-2010, 04:29 PM

It's a tricky proposition. Remember when Tomoya tried to "taste the cooking" of all the girls in episode 18, when Nagisa wasn't around? Didn't turn out well.

Well, that wasn't what I meant. For example, in Utawarerumono, even though Hakuoro has sex with almost anything female that comes in his presence, the end is just Eruruu. So there is a harem middle but not a harem end.

Not sure if it falls in the harem genre or more of a sub genre though. But 3 ladies seem to like the guy.

This applies to basically every light novel ever written, which is why I don't think they should be considered "harems."

Light novels include at least one "love rival who has no chance" because some readers may not like the main heroine. However, there's no question that the main heroine, whose name is often written in the title, will end up with the protagonist. Some novels stretch out the rilvarly to the end and some make it clear early on. However, it's pretty much always clear from the start who the main couple is.

The above really isn't a spoiler, but it does give away the structure to most light novels so I marked it just in case.

Herron

01-01-2010, 04:39 PM

Not sure if it falls in the harem genre or more of a sub genre though. But 3 ladies seem to like the guy.

This applies to basically every light novel ever written, which is why I don't think they should be considered "harems."

Light novels include at least one "love rival who has no chance" because some readers may not like the main heroine. However, there's no question that the main heroine, whose name is often written in the title, will end up with the protagonist. Some novels stretch out the rilvarly to the end and some make it clear early on. However, it's pretty much always clear from the start who the main couple is.

The above really isn't a spoiler, but it does give away the structure to most light novels so I marked it just in case.

Generally I think most harems have that structure too, just adding in a ton more women. But yeah I still wouldn't consider Zero harem either. Just suggesting shows that have a couple girls interested in a guy that's not a complete loser. Which is what the original poster seemed to want more then just straight harem.

Sensuifu

01-01-2010, 07:55 PM

so how would Tenchi in Tokyo be categorized?

I think the technical term is "crap."

An important word in any critic's vocabulary.

…

of course that's a given, but relative to the ot, would it not still fall under 'harem' despite Suika's implication?

The Great Bear

01-01-2010, 08:12 PM

of course that's a given, but relative to the ot, would it not still fall under 'harem' despite Suika's implication?

Since it is Tenchi, I think it is pretty safe to call it harem.

treatment

01-01-2010, 08:16 PM

Ranma.

first and foremost.

however, if you want to exclude him, gotta go with Hiroyuki Fujita of ToHeart.

Nork22

01-01-2010, 08:36 PM

Well there's Teppei Arima from Princess Lover recently...
Would Wataru from Sister Princess count? It's a harem of sisters!

Gatts

01-01-2010, 11:52 PM

however, if you want to exclude him, gotta go with Hiroyuki Fujita of ToHeart.

I think Leaf characters would get the same treatment as Key characters. Since he doesn't really deviate from Akari at any point, To Heart would probably be disqualified.

Utawarerumono (Hakuoro has a male and female harem)
Tears to Tiara (Arawn has the same thing)
Comic Party (Kazuki technically has a harem going)
To Heart 2
White Album

All of those have "sort of harem" situations where the males don't overtly chase after other women.

Betenoire

01-02-2010, 12:03 AM

Trust me on this, stick with Love Hina, just trust me, he is a hapless idiot at the beginning but he grows a lot.

Read the manga instead.

^THIS!

Magikano-The lead isn't that much of an idiot, but the show itself isn't that watchable either. :sd:

Gatts

01-02-2010, 12:03 AM

Anime that I can think of that have a definite harem ending:
Happy Lesson (and what a horrible ending that was)
Girl's Bravo
Maburaho (mainly because I think the author realized Yuna was such a self-centered bitch that it didn't make much sense to have Kazuki dedicated to her)
Sekirei (well, the manga is still ongoing and there might be a second season that wraps it up for Musubi. Maybe there will be a Kagari twist ending, but I doubt it.)

Also I'll give a honorable mention to Negima.

Draneor

01-02-2010, 12:27 AM

TheDreaming

01-02-2010, 12:40 AM

Isn't a harem anime by definition supposed to have a hapless idiot guy at the center? I thought that was the point!

LKK

01-02-2010, 10:55 AM

Tears to Tiara (Arawn has the same thing)

Tears to Tiara is kind of interesting in that in the original game Arawan did have a harem (it was a running joke how he kept accidentally committing betrothal customs), but they ditched that concept for the anime.
I wouldn't say that the anime ditched the concept so much as downplayed it. Even in the anime, Arawn had a small harem at one point with 3 women as his legal wives. But by series end, he and the group only acknowledged 1 woman as his wife. (I think that in the original game every woman Arawn met became a permanent part of his harem.)

Gatts

01-02-2010, 11:20 AM

Magikano-The lead isn't that much of an idiot, but the show itself isn't that watchable either. :sd:

Magikano wasn't that bad. The endless loop ending was what bothered me about that series. At least hint that there was something different. Other than that it was pretty enjoyable up until it tried to have a plot.

something

01-02-2010, 11:44 AM

I don't know about it happening all of the way through, but the first two episodes of Nyan Koi had a non-dippy harem lead.
Junpei was pretty cool all things considered, but unfortunately it has a hapless idiot female character. Who isn't the "main" female character, but you wouldn't know it to look athow much screen time she gets.

Oh I hate you Kanako.

something

01-02-2010, 12:25 PM

Sugisaki Ken from Seitokai no Ichizon
That's who I thought of when I saw the title. Granted it depends on the definition of "idiot" but he's just really silly, not at all incompetent. It's also a slightly weird idea of harem, one that's really... platonic, in a sweet way? Something like that.

So of course there's the "what is harem?" question. I too do not consider the Key titles harem. If by harem, the OP means "there's one main guy and lots of girls" then, well, that opens things considerably but the resulting shows will have little in common... I also see love triangles lumped into harem really often, which is wrong by any definition as far as I'm concerned.

LKK

01-02-2010, 01:08 PM

I also see love triangles lumped into harem really often, which is wrong by any definition as far as I'm concerned.
I completely agree with that statement. To me, a love triangle is a completely different beast with its own set of rules and expectations. It really doesn't fit in with how I see the harem situation.

Fencedude

01-02-2010, 03:37 PM

To be a "true" Harem the guy really has to live with at least a majority of the girls.

treatment

01-02-2010, 03:42 PM

To be a "true" Harem the guy really has to live with at least a majority of the girls.

so by that definition, Ichigo 100% is not a "true" harem anime?

Fencedude

01-02-2010, 04:35 PM

To be a "true" Harem the guy really has to live with at least a majority of the girls.

so by that definition, Ichigo 100% is not a "true" harem anime?

There are, of course, exceptions. But Ichigo 100% really was just a love triangle that got completely out of hand.

TAS

01-03-2010, 10:27 PM

pathos

01-04-2010, 08:05 AM

I don't know about it happening all of the way through, but the first two episodes of Nyan Koi had a non-dippy harem lead.

I think Nyan Koi and a couple of other shows substitute some other comedy causing problem for "idiot". For Nyan Koi it's the cat allergy + curse.
I think Princess Lover would be another example where the lead is dropped from middle class into the world of the ultra rich.

And Negima used an age factor for that. (although, when I think Negima, I think manga, not really anime..I'm having trouble remembering just what was in and what was out of the anime)

Oh, in reference to an earlier post, a real anime harem ending - Look no farther than Tenchi Muyo GXP. It doesn't get much more harem ending than that.

Hrm, but back on topic, harem (or haremish) shows without a hapless idiot lead

Isekai no Seikishi Monogatari - the male lead has been toughened by some of the strongest people in the universe. He definately kicks ass.

Photon - ok, the male lead IS a hapless idiot, but at least he's strong :P

Shuffle - the male lead is pretty average, but isn't an idiot by any stretch. extra points for actually figuring out who he likes and choosing her too.

Nyan Koi - another decent, but not an extremely outstanding, male lead.

Hrm, you know, if Nyan Koi ever had a real "ending", what would it be? Is a Kaede ending a foregone conclusion? Could something happen in the show to change who Junpei likes?

If one of the criteria for a show being "harem" is the male lead actually being hrm, how to say it, "open to different options" (as alluded to earlier in this thread, or, at least, thats how I took it) is Nyan Koi really a harem?

Well, yeah, even I do realize it isn't that simple

Herron

01-04-2010, 08:39 AM

You know I've been thinking about this since the thread has brought it up, and it seems that finding or classifing harem anime is kind of messed up. I mean for it to truely be harem in sense of the actual word, the main character(male or female) would have to end up with all of the girls/guys and be in at least an actual relationship with them

Most of the stuff we're listing are really just complicated love "triangles".

Kudos to Pathos for bringing up Shuffle I thought it was really well done (even though the girl I liked wasn't picked)

Draneor

01-04-2010, 09:08 AM

You know I've been thinking about this since the thread has brought it up, and it seems that finding or classifying harem anime is kind of messed up.

I don't think it's very ill-defined. It's a specific formula that many franchises follow, with some modifications. You have one guy, typically a somewhat perverted everyman that is easy for teenage boy readers to identify with. You have a variety of girls, from different types. For whatever reason, they all fall in love with him and often decided to live together, perhaps fighting over him. While a romance theme may be a present, the main focus of the story tends towards gags and fanservice. Thus, the main character will constantly end up in "those kinds" of situations. Character development is usually minimal. Lastly, endings tend to be inconclusive. This is how I would describe a "true shounen harem."

Some franchises follow the formula very closely (Nagasarete Airantou/To-Loveる) others practically wrote it (Tenchi Muyo). On the other hand, there are some (Ah My Goddess/Love Hina) that tweak it a bit for an older audience.

Gatts

01-04-2010, 09:52 AM

Happy Lesson
Girl's Bravo
Maburaho
Sekirei

After a lot of thought, I'll throw Hand Maid May onto that list. I had to rewatch the last episode... although I don't know how people will rank one real girl and a bunch of machines in the "real harem" scale. Of course, in my opinion, Kasumi was more than enough real or fake for him by herself.

In a twisted sort of manner you could consider Key the Metal Idol a harem with her 10,000 lovers. ;)

Buckeye

01-04-2010, 10:41 AM

There are a number of harem titles where the main guy is not so helpless. There is Ai Yori Aoshi, Hayate the Combat Butler, Utawarerumono, Negima, Saber Marionette J, and all Key titles (although considered harem by just the presence of females with no love interests involved).

Astrael

01-05-2010, 01:29 PM

There is a genre of Japanese pop literature called harem (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%8F%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AC%E3%83%A0%E7%B3%BB%E4%B D%9C%E5%93%81). Typical anime that fall into this category include Ichigo 100%, Love Hina, Rosario + Vampire, Tenchi Muyo, and To LOVEる. They're typically shounen wish-fulfillment comedies where romance comes second and jokes and fan service are prioritized. There are seinen harems, like Ai Yori Aoshi, but they tend to be somewhat different. The reason these are harems is they follow an established formula that produces a work with a certain structure. If it's not trying to follow that formula, it's not a harem.

Tenchi Muyo! practically invented this genre, but I also find it does not hold up well under the current definition. The original OVA just seems so innocent and tame compared to the crazy stuff we have these days. I tend to just file it under epic science fiction comedy.

However, it's spinoff, GXP, is definitely straight up harem. I think Seina ends up with like 8 certifiably insane girls marrying him in the end. Like it's some kind of ridiculous parody of the genre itself. At least that's the impression I got.

Funkatron

01-05-2010, 01:55 PM

Thanks for all the discussion and suggestions.

I guess my reason I made the thread was my annoyance of yet another "Guy trips and accidentally gropes a girl and gets his butt kicked for it" anime I saw in "Ladies vs Butlers" (granted I haven't seen the ep yet but from what I've heard It seems to be more of the same old same old). Looking at the thread now, most of the comedy aspect of the harem genre is he guy getting into those situations and the ensuing reactions. And I know the state of the industry now the creators are playing it safe and sticking with old tropes instead of putting more creativity. I just wondered if there were shows that were haremish and yet broke the mold ie the guy wasn't a complete idiot/clumsy/perv or didn't allow himself to be pushed around by the more aggressive girls of said harem.

I thank you for the reading fodder and I hope this thread yeilds more discussion

Fencedude

01-05-2010, 05:12 PM

Zalis

01-05-2010, 05:16 PM

RahXephon -- Ayato Kamina / Kamina Ayato / whatever his name is starts out a bit clueless due to his fish out of water scenario, but he's not completely stupid or clumsy. He shows some resourcefulness in the "running off with a girl and living like newlyweds" arc, although true to most harem leads exception: MANkoto, he doesn't take full advantage of the situation. There was one "knocking the girl off the boat into water and almost catching cold" scene, but RX doesn't have quite as much slapstick as other harem anime. Ayato's also mostly competent in the show's secondary mecha/war sections. I take that back, he was a bit of a doormat in episode 7 when he went from "I'll never pilot this thing again!!" to "Okay, I'll pilot it," with no convincing, persuasion, or explanation whatsoever. Still, he's better than most. In addition, RahXephon's animation, sound design, and musical scoring are far and above average for the harem comedy genre. Definitely recommended.

Fencedude

01-05-2010, 05:25 PM

RahXephon is not, by any stretch of the imagination a harem show.

bobma

01-05-2010, 05:31 PM

Question is, has there been any harem anime where the main guy is actually competent? Where he isn't a bumbling oaf who conveniently barges in when a lady is undressing or doesn't manage to grope a girls breasts whether by accident or otherwise and actually attracts girls with charm/intelligence/wits/nice guy aura?

If you want a competent harem lead, then you want Kenshi Masaki from Isekai no Seikishi Monogatari. One of the few instances where I can completely understand why the girls involved go crazy over him.

Gatts

01-05-2010, 05:55 PM

RahXephon is not, by any stretch of the imagination a harem show.

Especially when you consider that Reika and Haruka are the same person.

One Vorlon

01-06-2010, 02:21 AM

RahXephon is not, by any stretch of the imagination a harem show.

Especially when you consider that Reika and Haruka are the same person.
Technically, they're not - "Reika" is an avatar/remote projection of the RahXephon's AI, based on what Ayato could still remember of Haruka - and since they had different bodies and "continuities of conciousness" (complete with unique goals, memories, etc.), they were distinct entities

However, I definitely can see a harem aspect. Reika, Haruka, Haruka's sister, the alcoholic pilot, Quon, the girl from Tokyo Jupiter and even Ayato's "mother" all had feelings for/an interest in Ayato. Its certainly more understated than most harem shows (more a major theme, rather than a dominant one), and the relationships are more complicated, but its definitely there.

Yukino Miyazawa

01-06-2010, 06:16 PM

Was just wondering this, since I know many of you like Harem anime. So one of the cliche roles of the genre is the hapless idot guy who is ubre clumsy and some how gets at least 2 girls to fall head over heals for him despite the combo of his badluck, lechery and/or overall stupidity.

Question is, has there been any harem anime where the main guy is actually competent? Where he isn't a bumbling oaf who conveniently barges in when a lady is undressing or doesn't manage to grope a girls breasts whether by accident or otherwise and actually attracts girls with charm/intelligence/wits/nice guy aura?
In DNA2, all of the girls, except for the childhood friend, fall for his alternate, suave "playboy" persona. His regular self is allergic to girls.

Samatarou in Kamisama Kazoku is a nice guy who is also the son of a god.

Kotarou from Pita-Ten is a nice guy.

Though it's more of a love triangle than a harem, Kyosuke from Kimagure Orange Road is a powerful esper. Hikaru likes him because she once saw him perform a superhuman feat, and Madoka likes him because he knows there is more to her than her tough girl persona.

RZetlin

01-08-2010, 09:39 PM

Otaru Mamiya from Saber Marionette J has decent fighting abilities.

Shun Ukiya from Gate Keepers is the little naive but is the leader of his harem.

guyverfanboy

01-08-2010, 09:44 PM

Sora no Otoshimono
No hapless idiot here, just an extremely perverted idiot! Good times, good times.

RZetlin

01-08-2010, 10:05 PM

Ikuto Tōhōin from Nagasarete Airantou does have any special abilities but he is very even headed when dealing with the supernatural that other islanders believe in.

TheDreaming

01-09-2010, 03:00 AM

I can't believe anyone suggested RahXephon as a harem anime. That's sacrilege. You might as well say Evangelion is a harem because Shinji is surrounded by Rei and Asuka.

Betenoire

01-09-2010, 04:29 AM

TheDreaming

01-09-2010, 04:29 PM

I can't believe anyone suggested RahXephon as a harem anime. That's sacrilege. You might as well say Evangelion is a harem because Shinji is surrounded by Rei and Asuka.

Don't forget when Misato tries to force herself on him to comfort him.:devil:

Oh but that doesn't even compare to those ridiculous contrived scenarios in normal harem anime. Misato had to do anything to get Shinji to pilot Unit-01 and she was also about to die. It was out of love more then anything.

One Vorlon

01-10-2010, 10:11 PM

Yumeria should fit the qualifications. The dynamics between the protagonist, Tomokazu, and the five (or six - depending on how you count Neneneko) girls chasing him are a major driving force in the show, but he doesn't fit the usual stereotypes. True, he has some very ambitious ideas (regarding some of the girls) - then again, so would most teenage boys. And, unlike most harem leads, he picks a girl, and their relationship turns fairly serious

I can't believe anyone suggested RahXephon as a harem anime. That's sacrilege. You might as well say Evangelion is a harem because Shinji is surrounded by Rei and Asuka.

Don't forget when Misato tries to force herself on him to comfort him.:devil:

Oh but that doesn't even compare to those ridiculous contrived scenarios in normal harem anime. Misato had to do anything to get Shinji to pilot Unit-01 and she was also about to die. It was out of love more then anything.Okay . . . and the cheesecake photos, and the other teasing (with sexual connotations)? However, I agree that Misato was not seriously interested in Shinji (in a sexual/romantic manner), and I wouldn't classify Evangelion as a harem show (I can't even imagine Shinji on a date - can you?)

kadmos1

05-11-2010, 01:16 PM

I generally see nearly any anime with the lead guy has at least 3 girls lusting after him as either harem or something in the realm of harem (Evangelion isn't harem but the relationship Shinji has with Misato, Rei, and Asuka is in the vague realm of harem for me). Kanon's Yuichi is more of a smartass than a dumbass. Haruhi is not harem yet Kyon's sarcastic dialogue is why he's my fave character of that show outside of Mikuru.

vortexgods

04-18-2012, 09:54 PM

It's funny but because of my extreme old age THE harem show for me is Ranma 1/2. Nowadays it seems that it's not exactly characteristic of the genre, because of the following facts:

1. From the very first episode of the series Ranma is basically the top athlete at his school, and this is a school that already has some impressive athletes. He's pretty well always the strongest character on the show as well, able to beat any outside threat and at most needing a little training if he initially gets beaten. Because of this it actually makes a lot of sense that all the girls at the school are chasing him, much like extremely athletic guys in real life high schools get girls chasing them.

2. He's not yet ready for sex, but he is well aware of the power he has over women and it gives him a large ego boost. So, he's not at all clueless, but most of the time he finds it annoying or embarrassing. (However, he also enjoys it on some level which comes out occasionally.) He's actually a fairly arrogant character and it's nice to see him deflated occasionally.

3. He's basically definitely going to marry Akane from day one, none of the other girls are even really in the running. (If anything, Ranma has a much more serious rival for Akane in Ryoga... ) The main harem aspect of the show is that the other characters keep interfering with the "destined couple," but Ranma doesn't really see his future with any of the other girls. The other girls mainly exist to make Akane jealous. Akane is normally sweet but Ranma gives her agita and brings out her temper more than the other characters.

Now, he is kind of a jerk. He's only really interested in training and the martial arts. He also has what all the girls on the show consider a big handicap (he gets a girl's body when he gets wet with cold water). Not enough of a handicap to deter any of them though, except maybe Akane.