Kokoro Connect Discussion Thread

[nakimushi]

Originally Posted by HitokiriShadow

I don't think you can assume that it works exactly the same for "Heartseed", a mysterious, seemingly alien being, as it does for the humans being played around with. I don't think it would be unreasonable for it work slightly differently, since its clearly not human and may not have a "personality" to begin with. Also, its not "swapping", its just flat out possessing a host. It doesn't seem unreasonable for it to be taking on personality characteristics of its host body when it possesses them.

I can see that being possible.

Originally Posted by HitokiriShadow

I thought it was pretty obvious that it was supposed to be Heartseed talking there. There was an awkward pause (and I think a sound effect), the same kind we've seen in the body swaps, right before "she" went off on that tangent that had nothing to do with what she had just said moments before.

That hadn't occurred to me, but it makes a lot more sense considering what was said there did not sound like anything Iori would ever say.

Although, in one way that situation was somewhat different. If that was Heartseed, it appeared to be possessing Iori, while she was inside of Aoki's body.

Iori/Aoki/Heartseed spoke in Aoki's body but with Inori's voice/mannerisms. It is as if Heartseed possessed Inori's consciousness instead of Aoki's body. If it had been the latter, Heartseed should have spoken with Aoki's voice/mannerisms.

That could be the source of the difference in how it possessed Gotou sensei that you mentioned above. When possessing a consciousness, the "host's" personality is still present, just being "subverted", but when a body is swapped the "guest's" personality is alone.

I guess that could imply that the difference in Heartseed's "possessions" is that, unlike the body swaps, the original consciousness remains, because presumably, Heartseed doesn't have a body to swap the original consciousness out to.

That could possibly lead to a future circumstance where a couple of the five swappers end up in the same body, for a different situation. That would leave the "spare" body potentially unconscious at the least, though so I'm not sure if they would try that or not.

[superdry]

Yay ...fourth show I've watched today. Why must Saturdays be killer when I'm busy on Fridays.

Anywho...the show continued to be really fun to watch. I really like our five main character - they work well together and the hijinks that ensue from the body swap is funny.

Originally Posted by nakimushi

Hmm, I'm still not sure what to think about this show. I thought that this episode's tone was jarringly uneven.

The portrayal of the being behind the swapping as both lackadaisical and potentially menacing (if pushed) didn't help.

Its nice we got an explanation pretty quickly on the phenomena, but I agree about the portrayal of the alien being behind it all. It definitely felt out of place in the whole episode.

The philosophical musings by Iori /Aoki /Heartseed was interesting and is probably going to play a role in later episodes in what the characters think of what is your identity as the body swap continues.

[something]

Episode 2:

- Hi Azunyan!
- Heh. You can't trust a face anymore.
- Three-way!
- Eufoniusssssssssssssss~~

- Inaban continues to be the best. The teacher is pretty cool, but it's fun watching Inaban totally take control of the situation.
- Suddenly, Taichi-in-Yui and vice versa.
- "Why am I in the bathroom?" Hahahahaha. Man, Hito Random indeed.

- Ahaha, Taichi gets outed about the boob grabbing.
- INABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN! She just nonchalantly gives all the girls' cup sizes away. Including her own. And she looks so satisfied with herself too. Oh god I love her.
- And now the teacher is swapped with someone too.
- Ah. They've become test subjects for the least motivated villain ever.
- Yui is a karate girl!

- Progress report! Everyone is terrible at this except for Inaba. Heh.
- Iori knows how to pee standing up. She's a very skilled girl.
- Oh wow, flippant talk of muggers sure hit a nerve with Yui. Combined with her karate training, I think we've got her backstory established.
- On the way home, Iori-in-Aoki and vice versa.
- Iori-in-Aoki gets all philosophical. (Edit: Or Heartseed, using the swap as cover to plant the ideas in Taichi's head while possessing Iori-in-Aoki. That would be better actually.)

- Ahahahah, awesome timing on the last switch. Iori can barely contain her laughter. XD
- Inaban starts getting her revenge...

Verrrrrrrrry interesting turn of events. This episode introduced a much darker side of things, which has the potential to completely change the tone of he show, and I very much approve.

Definitely still the #2 show of the season, with the possibility to be #1. Inaban is suuuuuuuuuch a great character (talk about a seiyuu totally making the character, fuck yeah Sawashiro), and I like everyone else except for Aoki. He's the only one I haven't warmed to yet. Still can't see anything to him besides coming on way too strong to Yui, which is probably a big issue for her given the hints we got in this episode.

[Fencedude]

There certainly were some interesting issues raised this episode, weren't there?

[HitokiriShadow]

Rewatch time!

So, when Heartseed first introduces itself as Goto, he says that its fine because Goto is healthy.... but "the problem would be that I lack motivation, tenacity, courage, spirit, and all that other stuff, I guess?" That's an explicit indication that his behavior is affected by his host body.

The first time, I wasn't entirely sure which thing Iori was referring to as the screw up, but now I think its clear she was referring to her remark about using pepper spray on a burglar not being a big deal, as that's what really set Yui off, and then Iori has that "oh fuck, I just stepped on a landmine" face.

... But then there's also that part right afterwards when she tries to touch Yui while in Aoki's body. But while that was also a screwup, it was a minor one and didn't cause any problems, so I'm not sure why Iori would be referring to that.

Hmmmm.... that was an awkward pause, but not quite like I first thought and the only sound effect was right as Iori pointed.

I initially thought Iori's "I screwed up" had to be referring to either letting the others find out about her home life (despite her showing no indication of caring about that when she actually told them) or triggering that reaction from Yui in the same scene. Iori's question for Taichi doesn't connect to either of those. However, it does make sense if its referring to her attempt to act normal with Yui while in Aoki's body, and that's the only situation in which she had both actual control over it (unlike Yui getting a look at her home life, which Iori couldn't do anything about) and definitely had knowledge about Yui for which she could reasonably think she should have acted differently.

I don't think I was reading too much into Yui's behavior. She definitely had some sort of traumatic past experience, the question is just how far the show is willing to go. Rape (attempted or otherwise) seems out of place for a show like this, but that was my first thought last time and it hasn't changed here, though there are certainly other possibilities.

In any case, whatever Yui's issues are, its not at all clear Iori knows Yui enough to know how to avoid the landmine she stepped on earlier, but she clearly knew Yui well enough to know better to do that when she was in Aoki's body. While it wasn't a big deal, that doesn't mean it wouldn't have weighed on Iori's mind. And most importantly, what Iori did there DOES lead directly to the question that she asked Taichi.

So, almost all signs point to me being wrong about Heartseed switching in for that part, and honestly, I'm glad I was. I much prefer that its actually Iori doing that. Playful happy characters like her are typically also.... well, not terribly bright, to put it kindly. There is often no sign of particularly intelligent thought in them. Iori already came across more nuanced than most, but I love that she clearly.... well, actually thinks and contemplates things like a normal human being. She's at least decently smart. She's playful and teasing, but she's not an idiot.

The end stuff with the volunteering and declaration of love is still pretty funny.

[HitokiriShadow]

"Everyone but yourself is an enemy" It seems Inaba has her own issues. She sure seemed to mean that seriously, which indicates some significant emotional issues of her own. And man, she sure got serious and pissed there with Taichi.

And Iori is weak link, Inaba has never seen someone so close to breaking down. *remembers apparent suicide attempt in the trailer*

Never piss off Inaba when she's in, or could at some point become, your body. Even Taichi was in on it, what the hell.

And then..... Yui's issues. Uuurg. I have mixed feelings about the stuff that happened here. On the one hand, the kick-to-the-balls was funny and the Yui/Taichi stuff was cute in general, particularly her pat-on-the-back greeting to him the next day.

But.... the show actually did go there. My suspicion about the cause of her fear was correct. Someone tried to rape her. That's not a problem in itself.... but it can be tricky to handle, and this show didn't pass with flying colors. It's exceptionally problematic that she can just suddenly get over this kind of thing just because a guy gives her advice. And its kind of a problem that her fear boils down to whether or not she's strong enough to beat them off, and that its fixed, or at least improved noticeably, based entirely on showing her the 'secret' (really? she needed a guy to tell her that? its not like guys' balls being their weekpoint is some closely guarded secret...) to defeating me.

Okay, so maybe her problem isn't entirely fixed, but even making significant progress, just from that, is.... not a particularly praiseworthy example of how to handle rape trauma. I was worried about how this would be handled if it was an issue of rape and I wasn't expecting the show to pass with flying colors in its handling of it, but I'm still disappointed. I still love the show, this scene won't hurt my odds of importing it, so it would have to screw up in how it handles it down the line to do that. And the upside is that this is the third episode, in the first volume arc of a novel series that is six (main story) novels, and presumably ongoing, so its unlikely this is the end of her issues (and there were already signs that it wasn't) and the show could also improve things later on.

[ookamigirl]

Taichi bullied by a girl...
He's really too nice for his own good.
Also, he seems to be clueless about other people's feelings about the whole body swapping ordeal.
Looks like some of them were enjoying that ordeal ^^
Boys will be boys, even when they're girls LOL
Inaba is one scary girl. Totally not to be messed with.
Yui was the weakest link, but Taichi helped her out with that.

[FUNiOP]

I've been listening to a lot of riya lately (namely, all the Clannad songs), so I'm liking the eufonius OP more and more every week. This episode was a very strong one. I think the series is looking up.

[nakimushi]

Originally Posted by HitokiriShadow

In any case, whatever Yui's issues are, its not at all clear Iori knows Yui enough to know how to avoid the landmine she stepped on earlier, but she clearly knew Yui well enough to know better to do that when she was in Aoki's body. While it wasn't a big deal, that doesn't mean it wouldn't have weighed on Iori's mind. And most importantly, what Iori did there DOES lead directly to the question that she asked Taichi.

So, almost all signs point to me being wrong about Heartseed switching in for that part, and honestly, I'm glad I was. I much prefer that its actually Iori doing that. Playful happy characters like her are typically also.... well, not terribly bright, to put it kindly. There is often no sign of particularly intelligent thought in them. Iori already came across more nuanced than most, but I love that she clearly.... well, actually thinks and contemplates things like a normal human being. She's at least decently smart. She's playful and teasing, but she's not an idiot.

Really? I'm curious what made you change your mind on that. I had initially commented that what was said there did not sound like something Iori would ever say, and your previous explanation that it was really Heartseed made a lot of sense.

I went back and watched it again, and it isn't just what is said in that scene, but how it was said, that makes it seem unlikely to me, that Iori was the person who said that.

The word usage is much different from Iori's usual conversation style. I guess Iori could have been trying to jokingly imitate a more formal/sophisticated way of speaking, but I think that Heartseed being the actual speaker there, seems more probable.

[superdry]

Originally Posted by HitokiriShadow

"
Never piss off Inaba when she's in, or could at some point become, your body. Even Taichi was in on it, what the hell.

That was a really fun and cute scene seeing the guys film confessions as the girls on their phones. Oh man, and then what Inaba wanted to do as revenge was golden.

Okay, so maybe her problem isn't entirely fixed, but even making significant progress, just from that, is.... not a particularly praiseworthy example of how to handle rape trauma.

Yea, I found that whole thing a little strange considering the progress that was made. At least it was something that helped and maybe Taichi and Yui will form a closer bond? I wonder how the novel handled the scene.