Sword Art Online Discussion Thread

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by something

For me, what you just described illustrates why I think this arc's writing is so very lazy. At least the SAO arc kinda had to struggle with establishing a world and character relationships and an overhanging threat that I could buy into and find pretty interesting, and managed to do it well at times. ALO not so much.

[...]

I want that show back. I really, really want that show back, badly. It took so long to finally obtain it, to give Kirito real emotional depth, and then that show just dissolved before my eyes.

I think it's probably telling that Kirito isn't really the focus of the narrative in this arc anyway. He's a subject, but the perspective more-often follows Suguha and Asuna than Kirito directly. Right now, coming off of a "death game", this is very much more of just a "game" for Kirito, except for the need to verify if that's really Asuna on top of that tree or not. So I don't think he's really had an opportunity to show much depth yet, because it's been rather low-risk so far. He does have limited time, but the objective is still hazy at best. If he knew what we knew, it'd be a different story, so we in the audience sort of just have to wait until we see the pieces come together.

If the story is going to return to the themes you enjoyed, I think it will only happen once the "real fight" becomes clear -- a fight against an opponent that can't be beaten by gamer skill alone. Because then Kirito/Kazuto will have to again come face-to-face with his weakness. In the meantime, though, he's "kicking ass and taking names" because that's what allows the story to advance to the next stage. In a game where "death" is really just an inconvenience, it was going to be pretty hard for it to keep sense of gravitas until we get to the real meat of the story where real lives are (once again) at stake. In the meantime, personally I'm enjoying the sort of side story well enough, but I've always enjoyed the game aspects of this story a fair bit.

[superdry]

Ayachi~ continues to make this arc enjoyable. It's a waiting game now until Kirito can somehow reach the top of the tree and face Sugou.

The whole Sugurd thing was interesting, but at the same time...whatever. It's a side-quest!

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

In fairness, these two points are completely related. He figured the only way to win was to use the "illusion" magic (really transformation), but the only way he could buy enough time is for her to keep healing him (because otherwise he couldn't take the hits). So it has nothing to do with her being a girl; he needed a support player to make his plan work otherwise they'd both be dead. For what it's worth, anyway...

I would have liked to seen Leafa fight, but understood why as the fight started.

My only problem with the battle was randomness of the strategy to beat the Salamanders. We only know what Kirito does or switches to due to Yui telling Leafa to cast a certain spell at a certain time. It would have been nice to show a minute or two of Kirito telling Yui what his new plan was going to be.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by superdry

My only problem with the battle was randomness of the strategy to beat the Salamanders. We only know what Kirito does or switches to due to Yui telling Leafa to cast a certain spell at a certain time. It would have been nice to show a minute or two of Kirito telling Yui what his new plan was going to be.

Well, yeah, you could say that they basically did this to surprise the viewer. The take-away in terms of the characters is that Kirito still isn't very good at the whole teamwork thing (communication), but Leafa trusts his judgement anyway even if it seemed crazy. Of course, she had already basically resolved herself that they'd just die and respawn, so she didn't really have anything to lose to go with his crazy possibly-a-plan plan anyway. Having them both be sword fighters in that case wouldn't have been a good strategy against that sort of mage-dominated party (and Kirito's useless in any other role, so...)

[HitokiriShadow]

So now Leafa is the support/healing unit in their first major fight. Actually, the first fight we've actually seen since Kirito rescued her. She finally draws her sword.... after the fight is over. And she ends up being useless for that too, since Kirito ends up handling and getting information out of the guy. Fuck you so hard, Misogyny Art Online.

I *think* the whole thing about Kirito going berserk in battle was just him yanking Leafa's chain, but if that part was true, then holy shit, we should have had hints about that before. And if its not, well, LOL so much for illusion magic having no battle uses.

Once again, fuck this show.

[superdry]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, yeah, you could say that they basically did this to surprise the viewer. The take-away in terms of the characters is that Kirito still isn't very good at the whole teamwork thing (communication), but Leafa trusts his judgement anyway even if it seemed crazy. Of course, she had already basically resolved herself that they'd just die and respawn, so she didn't really have anything to lose to go with his crazy possibly-a-plan plan anyway. Having them both be sword fighters in that case wouldn't have been a good strategy against that sort of mage-dominated party (and Kirito's useless in any other role, so...)

The site has been wonky....wanted to post this last night....

I would go back to re-watch the scene (sadly, sifting through a stream isn't very fun) because I remember Yui mentioning something about "just cast the spell and trust him" type speech. But, yea...Kirito still needs to learn how to work with people. In this case though, it's a little more understandable due to short amount of prep time and the fact that he still adapting to the game.

Agreed that they were seriously outnumbered in the battle and sometimes crazy tactics are the only way out.

[FUNiOP]

Nice to see Kirito still affected by his time in Sword Art Online, not allowing his teammates to die no matter the cost. Some pretty crazy ideas, but the odds were totally against them, so just going all out and hoping it works is the best bet. Being the main character probably doesn't hurt. He does need to work on explaining his ideas to his teammates and let them try to help, though.

[Draneor]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

(Edit: And that aside, I often play healers in MMORPGs, so I don't think there's anything lowly about being a supporting class.

Yeah this. Healers are integral to MMOs (assuming it has the holy trinity), in high demand, and generally respected. From the perspective of a MMO player, healing is not inferior to DPSing and honestly, probably more important since you generally don't do a lot of damage if dead. Assuming the game is properly balanced, which Asian MMOs are often not known for. Lastly, healing is often challenging.

[ndm]

Personally I thought this episode was a good one again (no scenes with the bad guy, for one thing!) though it did have a few bits of lazy writing. Firstly, the discussion setting up the Spriggan magic should have come an episode of two back. Having it at the start of the episode and then solving all their problems with the illusion spell five minutes later was too convenient.

I don't have a problem with Leafa being asked to stay back and heal. That's just as important a role as being the dpser, and it made sense since she was clearly much better at magic than Kirito. I saw it as just him recognizing one of her skills which he needed for his plan to save them, certainly not as a put down.

As to whether he should have revealed his plan to her... that probably could have been done and still had the secret kept from the viewer by having Kirito whisper in her ear, but then Leafa I'm sure would have argued with him because she knew better than him how 'useless' illusion magic is and that would have been boring to watch. More dramatic to have the grand reveal to both her and the audience at the same time, so I won't complain.

Really it just comes down to the fact that Kirito knows something Leafa doesn't (and that he doesn't want to tell her in case the GMs find out): that his stats reflect those of a high level character who was played continuously for a few years, when everyone else on the server would have been played part time for what, a year? No wonder he's so powerful compared to them all. I guess his stats were also reflected in his spellpower which is why his illusion was so effective.

[something]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

(Edit: And that aside, I often play healers in MMORPGs, so I don't think there's anything lowly about being a supporting class. So I didn't take it as a put-down.

Originally Posted by Draneor

Yeah this. Healers are integral to MMOs (assuming it has the holy trinity), in high demand, and generally respected. From the perspective of a MMO player, healing is not inferior to DPSing and honestly, probably more important since you generally don't do a lot of damage if dead.

Originally Posted by ndm

I don't have a problem with Leafa being asked to stay back and heal. That's just as important a role as being the dpser, and it made sense since she was clearly much better at magic than Kirito.

That's all well and good for real MMOs, and if you truly believe that's the reason the scene was written like that, then good for you. And I don't mean that sarcastically, because I wish I could bring myself to believe the same. But I don't, at all. At least, not in this show. Not after how it's handled its characters in combat thus far, with the notable exception of episode 13.

[Draneor]

Originally Posted by something

If you truly believe that's the real reason the scene was written like that, then good for you.

I always say what I mean. In any case, my comment wasn't discussing authorial intent (more that the role of a healer in a MMO is not worth less than a DPS).

Originally Posted by something

Almost nothing this show has done outside of episode 13 supports the idea that it cares particularly much about any combat mechanics except those that let Kirito be overpowered. In my eyes the scene was written so Kirito could be "badass" again. Everything else was of little to no importance to Kawahara.

The novel often goes into detail about mechanics. This doesn't translate well into the anime. Quite frankly, I find the MMO design aspect of the game (and the setting) far more intriguing than the plot of AFO, which has been indeed quite lacking. AFO is a multi-faction, sandbox, horizontal progression, flying MMO involving elves (for example). I'd be interested in playing it.

One thing I've been thinking is that I approached SAO as a story about playing MMOs rather than rather than a traditional action adventure which most seem to be approaching it as. This may not have been the correct approach (given the anime). And for the record, I don't really care what Kawahara's intent was. Was AFO made "horizontal progression" so Kirito did not have to spend time grinding out levels to be good and instead could instantly translate his player skill due to years of experience into being game good? Almost certainly as Asuna was stuck in game because he couldn' t figure out a better way to introduce the mandatory required second heroine. It's still an interesting design choice for the game.