Sword Art Online Discussion Thread

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by mellowrg2

He had to win her from Heathcliff in a duel.
She was a prize. Her own opinion did not matter.

That's not really true at all; win or lose, there was nothing stopping Kirito and Asuna and being together. The only reason the duel happened was because Kirito wanted to duel Heathcliff, one of SAO's top players. "Winning Asuna" was at best a pretence Heathcliff was using just to cause the conversation to happen. She only entertained it (mentioned it to Kirito) because she preferred not to make a scene within the guild, and the consequence either way would not be so devastating (either way they'd be together).

Originally Posted by mellowrg2

It doesn't stop there.. to quote someone else:

[...]

See the trend here?

It was clear in the narrative that her encounters with Kirito influenced her. She went on to fall in love with him, of course. But all of those things were not really for his sake, but for her own as well.

She was not happy with the food she was eating herself; cooking skill was self-interest.
She wanted to get her time back in the real world; joining a guild and being on the front lines was self-interest.
She was taking life too seriously and not getting enough sleep due to stress; she needed the rest.
The boy that she loved just asked to stay the night; she's not allowed to expect/anticipate sex?


I'm not saying you're wrong to wish Asuna had more chances to shine as an independent character... but I think the portrayal you're making isn't entirely accurate either.

[Fencedude]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I'm not saying you're wrong to wish Asuna had more chances to shine as an independent character... but I think the portrayal you're making isn't entirely accurate either.

ASUNA WAS HUNG FROM CHAINS TOPLESS WHY SHE WAS MOLESTED BY SUGOU

Screw you for trying to defend this show's depiction of her.

This is a 100% accurate depiction of what happened this episode. And its ridiculous to try to defend how the show has treated her.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Fencedude

ASUNA WAS HUNG FROM CHAINS TOPLESS WHY SHE WAS MOLESTED BY SUGOU

Screw you for trying to defend this show's depiction of her.

This is a 100% accurate depiction of what happened this episode. And its ridiculous to try to defend how the show has treated her.

Why would you perceive that as my defending Sugou's molestation of Asuna? It was disgusting and criminal, and was portrayed as such in the show.

I'm not even sure why defending the points that are not exploitative equates to defending the points that are. I don't see it as so black-and-white. Of course, how am I ever to argue with "screw you".

[Damius]

- Go away Recon, go away and NEVER come back… Damn you. How could you ask her out?
- Recon joined the two of them? Really… It is getting worse and worse.
- And he stopped Leafa when she wants to help… Well, at least now he is dead, I hope for long enough.

[Damius]

- Yui and Asuna meet again
- But seconds after that, Yui disappears
- And after that, it was the worst scene of the show... Sugou, you are the worst villain that ever existed, in every show I watched.
- And, Kirito defeated Sugou. I don’t care at all how it happened, I only care about Sugou not being able to return EVER.

Well… can I, at least, ask for a decent last episode?

[pathos]

Originally Posted by mellowrg2

He had to win her from Heathcliff in a duel.
She was a prize. Her own opinion did not matter.

But, Kirito lost, and yet they were still together? How exactly does that compute with your logic? The duel was over whether she could take vacation from the guild.

edit - took out something that was from the books only, didnt have a place in this discussion /end edit

As a side note, they still got to take their vacation, but only because of that whole pvp fiasco.

Kirito: Hey, you can put cream on bread and it tastes better.
Asuna/ Maxes out her cooking skill and spends a year analyzing every seasoning in the game
Kirito: There are limits to what a soloer can do. Join a guild sometime.
Asuna/ Becomes second-in-command of the strongest guild in the game
Kirito: Man, it's too nice outside to spend the day in the dungeon. You should take a break.
Asuna/ Falls asleep instantly
Kirito: Hey, maybe I should spend the night at your place.
Asuna/ Starts stripping

See the trend here?

Well, Asuna herself told us when she became interested in Kirito romantically, when they were talking to the old Fisherman.

That point was, when she woke up after taking the nap outside.

And, there was that time before that point, when they were at each other's throats during the boss raid meeting, and Kirito admits to either Klein or Egil (I've forgotten which) that they don't get along at all.

Wouldn't that invalidate almost your entire post, since most of the points come from before that time? What I'm trying to say, is why would she be doing things as a submissive little wifey, when she's not even romantically interested in him?

She was doing things that she was interested in, and because she wanted to. I'm not sure how it could possibly be interpreted in any other fashion.

Well, we both agree that the way she was utilized in the story was criminal. But, for extremely different reasons. And, honestly, I'm having trouble trying to understand your position, since it doesn't compute with my understanding of the show at all.

The creator of this made a smart, strong, capable woman. And then neglected to do anything interesting with her. Worse than, in the alo arc, made her a complete victim, completely powerless, and having to be rescued. Bleh

[Fencedude]

Man, fuck this show.

[Buckeye]

Even though Kirito beat Sugou in the game, he still is out for blood in real life, but his gouged right eye is messing with his aim. Kirito's skills from SAO came through this time to show Sugou not to mess with him to save Asuna. It's back to life at school where everybody is a former SAO player. It's the end of the VRMMO industry as they know it. It's time to celebrate everybody's return to the real world with a party at Agil's tavern. Thanks to Kirito, the VRMMO was revived and ALO is back, and Kirito and Sugu are dancing in the air all while Aincrad is reborn. This time, Kirito is clearing all 100 floors in a new SAO game, the way it was meant to be played.

And so, this series comes to a great end seeing the players getting together in real life to share their experiences in the games, and to reconnect with those who were not seen ever since SAO was cleared. And it's a great thing this episode does not spend that much time about Sugou, who is still as misguided as ever.

Overall, this is one of the best shows of the simulcast this season. It's a tale of two very different halfs with the first half being about the characters being trapped inside the game where dying in the game means death in real life, and the second half where it is more about Kirito and Sugu in their journey to rescue Asuna from some greedy sleazeball who us using the situation for himself, and with Kayaba being in the middle of everything. Here is a game that is not just a game, and the story does an excellent job in developing the characters. The ALO arc started off slow, but everything was buildup towards the climax, which would not be the same without it.

[ookamigirl]

Kirito vs Sugou in the real world.
That was just awesome, but also kinda disturbing.
Asuna and Kirito reunion was really sweet.
It's the thing we've all been waiting for all this time... ^^
So life went back to normal.
It was nice watching those two enjoy everyday life.
So they never gave up on playing again, that's cool.
Really, really nice final episode!

[mellowrg2]

Originally Posted by pathos

But, Kirito lost, and yet they were still together? How exactly does that compute with your logic? The duel was over whether she could take vacation from the guild.

edit - took out something that was from the books only, didnt have a place in this discussion /end edit

As a side note, they still got to take their vacation, but only because of that whole pvp fiasco.

Well, Asuna herself told us when she became interested in Kirito romantically, when they were talking to the old Fisherman.

That point was, when she woke up after taking the nap outside.

And, there was that time before that point, when they were at each other's throats during the boss raid meeting, and Kirito admits to either Klein or Egil (I've forgotten which) that they don't get along at all.

Wouldn't that invalidate almost your entire post, since most of the points come from before that time? What I'm trying to say, is why would she be doing things as a submissive little wifey, when she's not even romantically interested in him?

She was doing things that she was interested in, and because she wanted to. I'm not sure how it could possibly be interpreted in any other fashion.

Well, we both agree that the way she was utilized in the story was criminal. But, for extremely different reasons. And, honestly, I'm having trouble trying to understand your position, since it doesn't compute with my understanding of the show at all.

The creator of this made a smart, strong, capable woman. And then neglected to do anything interesting with her. Worse than, in the alo arc, made her a complete victim, completely powerless, and having to be rescued. Bleh

She should duel Heathcliff for her right to have a vacation, not Kirito.

It would like you challenging a woman's parent to a duel for the right to date her, and her agreeing to that.
Regardless if she likes you or not, that is completely ass backwards and last century.

As for the other things, it just seems to me that Asuna is someone the author places as an accessory for Kirito, and not as his equal. She's just there as a token love interest. But she's not necessarily the main heroine either, as ALO shows. (the love interest is not always the heroine)

If there is a 3rd season, I'm sure Asuna and Kirito's cousin will just be put aside for new shiny [insert new heroine].

As for your other question.. If you want my definition of a strong female character it would be Kuroyuki Hime from Accel World. Her taste in men is absolutely questionable.. BUT. she has her own desires. her own ambition. and she will not yield for anyone in regards to that.. not even Haruyuki.
In addition she has a social life outside Haruyuki. Imagine that.. a girlfriend that has a life outside of her boyfriend. Mind boggling.