Best home stereo system custom setup?

[SlavikCC]

Hopefully down the road in the future, I'd love to buy a custom stereo set with receiver, CD player, turntable, speakers and cables. There's a huge amount of each of these items and it's been quite overwhelming to choose which. I'm more interested in a home stereo setup with the best bang for the buck.

Here's what perked my interest: expensive CD players have someway to upsample or upconvert its original 16bit, 44kHz to 24bit and 96kHz or higher. I do know that HDCD's go up to 20bit, so I'm interested in finding players that can play them as well. For the rest, can you guys fill me in what I should know about each of the component I'm interested in? Though, I don't want to spend obscene amounts of money for Monster Cables or so. Any help would be appreciated.

[JeffDM]

First, you are not going to get bang for the buck with Monster cables. They aren't worth it, their product build quality for the money and sales tactics are based more on hocus-pocus than actual quality.

Second, all this is a little subjective on what is best to do. Probably best to go to home theater hardware subforum.

[battra92]

I can give reccomendations all day long but I'm not sure how good it would you you.

The best bang for the buck would have to be Fischer 500 Series or the Scott 299s but then, I'm partial to tube amps.

I won't even try to talk about speakers. Those you have to hear for yourself.

In the short amount of distance that such cables have to go, Monsters are just not worth it. Monster Cables are the equivelant of drawing with a green marker on the edge of your CDs.

What I will tell you is most of your CDs probably don't sound good enough for such an amp and high end speakers. You are hereby ordered to go on eBay and buy a mess of Mercury Living Presence and RCA/Victor Living Stereo records. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I'm kidding of course but they are a good way to test a turntable if you can get one in nice shape.

Which brings me to turntables ... While the laser ones are too expensive (for now) there are some good DJ type models out there with quartz timing for exact 33 1/3 RPM.

I can't throw out brand names or anything really, I'd just look at some audiophile or stereo enthusiast boards. Oh, and bring your wallet. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Ty]

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SlavikCC said:
Hopefully down the road in the future, I'd love to buy a custom stereo set with receiver, CD player, turntable, speakers and cables. There's a huge amount of each of these items and it's been quite overwhelming to choose which. I'm more interested in a home stereo setup with the best bang for the buck.

Here's what perked my interest: expensive CD players have someway to upsample or upconvert its original 16bit, 44kHz to 24bit and 96kHz or higher. I do know that HDCD's go up to 20bit, so I'm interested in finding players that can play them as well. For the rest, can you guys fill me in what I should know about each of the component I'm interested in? Though, I don't want to spend obscene amounts of money for Monster Cables or so. Any help would be appreciated.

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Before you go chasing HDCD, be aware that the difference is quite subtle and depends alot on your other equipment. I've had an HDCD capable player for a long time and on discs that feature it it is a nice little improvement, but you have to have pretty nice speakers and amps to bring out the subtle differences it provides. Generally I find that instrument separation, realism of soundstage depth and microdynamics all improve slightly with an HDCD recording, but I wouldn't go off chasing new equipment just to gain this minor improvement. CDs that are authored this way are not too common and new releases with HDCD encoding are pretty much non-existant now too.

As for sampling players that convert to 96 Khz, this too is a subtle difference and there are a lot of varying opinions on it. If you're looking to move to a nicer system my advice is to concentrate on the major components like speakers, pre-amp, amp, ect. before you worry about the less major items like cables and transports (cd players, ect.). And please do not waste your money on Monster Cables. [img]/images/graemlins/happy.gif[/img] Don't waste your money on ANY fancy name brand cable. This is only my opinion and you'll hear others that completely contradict it, but cables are the biggest black magic in any audio system. I enjoy stunningly good sound on my dedicated music playback system (SI T-amp setup [img]/images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif[/img] ) that are connected with the cheapest no name cables and speaker wire around.

[mulveling]

Draw up an overall budget of how much you can spend in total. Then start figuring out the price ranges you can afford for each component. The speakers are the most vital component. They add the most coloration to sound and will also take away the most from subtle nuances if they're not up to scratch. Don't skimp here. Audition as much as possible. Tweeter/HiFibuys now carries some decent entry level high-end stuff like Martin Logan, Focal, Sonus Faber, Polk LSi, etc. Go there and start to learn what speakers you like (it's just a start though). See if you can get home demos from local audiophiles.

Electronics can also make a significant difference (don't underestimate the power a good tube preamp), but it's not as extreme as the differences between speakers. As mentioned before, the differences HDCD and upsampling make are subtle at best - this even holds for SACD/DVDA, to a lesser extent (OK - on a well designed $23K 2ch system the difference was a nice expansion of soundstage versus redbook - but it's much more subtle on lesser systems). You're better off looking for a CD player that has the best possible redbook CD sound quality, irregardless of features. My Denon 2910 does SACD and DVDA but I'd much rather listen to regular CD on my Meridian G08. If your bugdet allows (as in > $1K for power electronics), I'd avoid receivers. Mostly for the sound quality, but their power ratings are generally way off from reality anyways. Look into integrated amps (these combine a preamp and poweramp) or separtes (buy a preamp and poweramp spearately) instead. The more simple you go, the more you can concentrate on getting higher quality components - I am a BIG fan of regular 2 channel (2 front speakers with no sub) over anything else - 2.1, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1, etc - even for home theater, especially for music.

Cables can make a difference, but they make the least difference and can be skimped on to a great extent. Expensive cables are pretty much useless until you've got a fairly high end system anyways, and even then it's more of a coloration change than a quality increase. Avoid Monster Cable and their ridiculous profit margins.

If you buy used you'll be able to try more gear in your own home and resell for only a small loss (often much less than dealer restocking fees). Plus you'll get significant price breaks on retail prices, and it opens up the possibility of discontinued but classic models. Some vintage gear can be a great bargain. AUDIOGON.COM IS YOUR FRIEND. You'll get the best bang for your buck buying used (beware items with a history of reliability problems, though).

Be careful. A lot of stuff out there is really overhyped, even (especially?) in the hobbyist circles. It's not unlikely that certain marketing campaigns involve shilling. Personally I've bought stuff that sounds too good to be true and I've found it to be an OK value, but not near the hype (Ascend Acoustics speakers, Outlaw Audio M200 amps).

As to the sentiment that a high end system will be too good for most CDs - nonsense. A poor hifi system will indeed sound harsh, analytical, and lacking in musicality with most recordings (even if the component parts of said system are of high quality). That's why it's hard to build a good system at any budget. That's why it's important to hear things with your own ears, in your own home as much as possible. A truly great system will sound amazing with both audiophile recordings and standard recordings, in any genre of music. A good system will sound good with all recordings. A crappy wannabe hifi will sound OK with a few specific recordings and mediocre, unengaging with everything else. Keep in mind this is all relative to YOUR ears - I think that the Audio Technica L3000 is by far the best sounding headphone ever made, but then there are many others who abhor its sound, LOL.

Finally: don't discount room acoustics. Read up a little on room treatments and speaker placement. Picking the room in your house with the right dimensions is also important.

[Skywise]

redbook = normal CDs

If anyone wants some more info on why the standards were originally named that google came up with this nice little link:

http://www.ccssinc.com/cd_color_books.php

[Ty]

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mulveling said:
They add the most coloration to sound

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They most certainly will not.... not if they're any good. Sorry, I couldn't leave you unscathed for that comment. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[mulveling]

So what components add more coloration? What speakers have you heard that don't add noticeable coloration? I've heard some pretty good stuff but it seems like there's always something to be improved when it comes to transducers.

Most tonally neutral I've heard:
Legacy Audio Signature III speakers
Grado HP2 headphones
Audio Technica W2002 Headphones

But STILL they have thier own quirks and deficiencies relative to other gear. They all have thier own character and don't sound exactly alike. Top-notch electronics sounds slightly more similar IME. Also, at the mid-fi and low-end scales, transducers are by far the largest offenders IMO.

[Sensuifu]

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Xcalibur said:
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mulveling said:
They add the most coloration to sound

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They most certainly will not.... not if they're any good. Sorry, I couldn't leave you unscathed for that comment. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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I agree. I'll echo my sentiments for speakers being a significant factor when sound quality is concerned, but I think speakers are just as susceptible to accentuating/attenuating certain nuances in music as are the devices being used for playback (amps, receivers, players, etc.), but not really any more. There are speakers that are known for being 'warm', 'bright', etc., but the same can be said of the electronics pushing them. You can have bright speakers, but then you can always balance it out with a warmer sounding amp/receiver or vice versa. Setups will have unique sonic signatures due to differences in room acoustics, source material, and mixing/matching components, speakers, etc. Though whether or not they're identifiable to the listener seems to be dependent on individual preferences and hearing.

fwiw, I have a pair of cheap Alesis monitors, and while they're flat in response and a bit boomy on the low end, match them up with the right amp, *cough*T-amp* [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] and not only do you have tight/quick mid-bass and acceptable low-end extension, the highs and mid-range come out clean with a really nice soundstage. I also use a pair of Axiom M3Ti's with the amp, and while the sonic differences are noticeable between the Alesis, the fact that there is a 'noticeable' soundstage can be attributed to the t-amp (even though the soundstage of the Axioms is already decent). Of course using the amp in my HT provides a completely different experience [img]/images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif[/img] , but I'm satisfied knowing you can always change the way setups sound, even with variances in something such as a chip or acoustical treatments.

[JeffDM]

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Xcalibur said:
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mulveling said:
They add the most coloration to sound

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They most certainly will not.... not if they're any good.

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mulveling is right. It takes a LOT of money to get a speaker to be as flat as a cheap amplifier. Good amplifier electronics are very simple. Accoustic physics is incredibly complex in comparison. If you take a look at a speaker's response diagram from labs, it isn't uncommon that a good speaker has several +/- 5dB response swings along its usable bandwidth. The response diagrams you see on sales literature is a very cleaned up (or fantasized) version of the actual data.