KOR: I Want to Return to that Day *spoilers*

[jojo_home]

So it took me about 10 years to finally watch most of KOR (I'm still missing about 10 episodes of the TV series) and things have gone full circle for me. My very first KOR experience was KOR-Summer's Beginning--the very END of KOR--and only AFTER that did I start on the TV series and OAVs and finally, the first movie.

"I Want to Return to That Day" is great, great drama indeed.

That said, I want to hear some of your thoughts on a few things, guys.

At first I thought that Kyosuke was being unnecessarily harsh toward Hikaru--I mean, couldn't he give her the option of staying friends? But then I figured that Kyosuke had a pretty good grasp of other people's behaviour (despite his own indecision throughout the TV series) and he must have thought that if he gave her even AN INCH of wiggle room, she would hang on and wouldn't let go. So in a way I can understand why he put his foot down so decisively like he did. Poor Hikaru. She didn't even know what hit her.

And speaking of Hikaru, I wasn't a big fan of hers (on the other hand, Madoka isn't really my type either, so I was pretty impartial throughout the series) but when I heard that this movie wasn't good for Hikaru fans, I have to disagree. If anything, she comes out better than Madoka in this movie, mostly because Madoka darn near pulls off the greatest vanishing act I've ever seen--after Kyosuke and her cement their relationship, Madoka barely appears anymore! So the film mostly focuses on the 'breakup' between Hikaru and Kyosuke.

And for all of Hikaru's clinging and stalker-like tendencies (although it's more understandable here than in Midori Days--At least Hikaru's actually KNOWN Kyosuke for years and years, so she WOULD be attached to him), when Hikaru finally lashes out at both Madoka and Kyosuke, she actually has very good points indeed. Like in the TV series, Madoka didn't really have to do anything in this situation. And Kyosuke should never have strung Hikaru along for so long in the first place.

If I had just one criticism, I would say that Kyosuke changed a lot faster in the movie than I expected. In reality, he probably would have been like MI's Godai, and strung the whole thing out for another 4 years until the shit hit the fan and he was FORCED to finally confess to the woman he loved. Instead, Kyosuke headed that outcome off much earlier than I thought. I know, I know, he still had 48 episodes and several OAVs to waffle around, but I felt that he confessed his love to Madoka a little too casually and easily. There wasn't really this big leadup moment like I thought there would be.

[The Pirate Queen]

Originally Posted by Leaping Larry Jojo

At first I thought that Kyosuke was being unnecessarily harsh toward Hikaru--I mean, couldn't he give her the option of staying friends? But then I figured that Kyosuke had a pretty good grasp of other people's behaviour (despite his own indecision throughout the TV series) and he must have thought that if he gave her even AN INCH of wiggle room, she would hang on and wouldn't let go. So in a way I can understand why he put his foot down so decisively like he did. Poor Hikaru. She didn't even know what hit her.

Exactly - it might have seemed harsh, but he had to make sure she knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she had no chance, period.

If I had just one criticism, I would say that Kyosuke changed a lot faster in the movie than I expected. In reality, he probably would have been like MI's Godai, and strung the whole thing out for another 4 years until the shit hit the fan and he was FORCED to finally confess to the woman he loved. Instead, Kyosuke headed that outcome off much earlier than I thought. I know, I know, he still had 48 episodes and several OAVs to waffle around, but I felt that he confessed his love to Madoka a little too casually and easily. There wasn't really this big leadup moment like I thought there would be.

See, I didn't see that as a big change - all along, he was just waiting for some sign that she was really serious about him. Throughout the TV series, Madoka would run hot and cold, giving him conflicting messages. In the movie, he had just finally reached that decision point, and decided to move on with his life rather than staying in the same place.

I need to rewatch all of KOR soon, I think. Such a good show...

[jojo_home]

Originally Posted by Dani

See, I didn't see that as a big change - all along, he was just waiting for some sign that she was really serious about him. Throughout the TV series, Madoka would run hot and cold, giving him conflicting messages. In the movie, he had just finally reached that decision point, and decided to move on with his life rather than staying in the same place.

Good point, Madoka was a bit schizo at times...I guess I expected Kyosuke to characteristically spend some more time digesting Madoka's close-as-you-can-get admission over the phone before getting around to telling her. And I kind of expected Kyosuke to "break up" with Hikaru using kid gloves at first, only to escalate to harsher tactics as Hikaru kept plugging away.

Still, I have no problem with his change, just that I thought he would ruminate over it more throughout the movie.

[Njr Scrawl]

Kyosuke was gentle to begin with. He told Hikaru very civilly at the lake that he couldn't see her anymore, & that he was in love with Madoka.
He told her very mildly on the phone not to call him anymore.
He told her politely in the street it was over. And maybe another time...

And Hikaru became like a dog with a bone, because she was desperate & her kawaii was losing its effect on him.

Kyosuke was very afraid of losing Madoka, not ESPer dreams this time, but flesh-&-blood Madoka had ultimatumed him. I think its that fear that made him edgier more than ever before. In the TV series Madoka was cosy, but there was always a little personal space between them, a little uncertainty of her total conviction. Even in episodes 47- 48, there was some teasy tippy-toeing (why chibi-Madoka was so refreshing!)

Going back to the start, Hikaru was making inroads - at Abcb with ice cream, talking marriage as though she & Kyosuke were already engaged, being utterly charming, & then the kiss that Kyosuke did not resist at all. He was then intoxicated with Hikaru (in the nice sense).

At that stage Madoka didn't know how easily Kyosuke could be swayed, & after ep 48 where they were closest, being told (tactically IMO) about the kiss by Hikaru was a shock to her confidence & assumption that she had made & thought Kyosuke was 100% hers. Only emotional weapon Madoka had was Kyosuke's fear of losing her, so she had to shock Hikaru out of his system for good, & she already knew which emotional buttons to push.

Kyosuke was already in an emotional stew, not revising, confused by his emotions over both girls. I guess Madoka didn't really have to try too hard, as he really did want to make the break from his family & start a proper relationship with Madoka. But his rawing nerves made him act to protect his relationship with Madoka, & made him harder. (Perhaps the older Kyosuke in SKOR was partly made tougher & less sympathetic due to the effect of breaking with Hikaru, & being influenced by Madoka's more real-world attitude)

Poor naieve Hikaru's vanity inadvertently shot her in the foot. Had she not bullied her father into buying her an expensive yukata to wear at the carnival, she could have backed out & gone to Kyosuke's house instead. Madoka knew this, decided not to go herself, knowing Kyosuke was staying away - & thus had the occassion to phone him & summon him without anyone else interfering.

[jojo_home]

Originally Posted by Wrath of the Njr

Poor naieve Hikaru's vanity inadvertently shot her in the foot. Had she not bullied her father into buying her an expensive yukata to wear at the carnival, she could have backed out & gone to Kyosuke's house instead.

For some reason, I find this LOL hilarious. :D Damn, when you look at it this way, what a disaster this one little action made for her.


That said, while I agree Kyosuke was gentle to start off with at the lake, he still didn't give her the option of remaining friends with him. I think that was what made me think he was harsh from the outset. With good reason, like I said, but I would have thought he'd start off with that compromise, only to later resort to ignoring her after her repeated attempts later on.

I'm not sure if even I would have done that in his position (just end a 4-5 year friendship with a thud, even in desperation to keep Madoka), but I've never been in a love triangle before so I don't know.

That said, in the 2nd KOR movie, I believe Kyosuke did feel some remorse over how he handled the situation in retrospect. So too, did Madoka.

[Njr Scrawl]

Hikaru really didn't know Madoka, or rather remember her determination, as much as I'd hoped.
She (Hikaru) may have assumed Madoka was not serious, or would let her have Kyosuke.

Kyosuke's hardness was IMO because he was not happy with breaking off with Hikaru absolutely, & probably wanted to do it more amicably. He's had Madoka almost in tears though, & was probably shaken by that as well. Then Madoka's notes in class checking up on his progress etc. were just as intense as Hikaru in their own way.

After a comparitively easy happy year (manga is 4, anime 1), the emotional rollercoaster ride for Kyosuke was intense.

[jojo_home]

Originally Posted by Wrath of the Njr

Hikaru really didn't know Madoka, or rather remember her determination, as much as I'd hoped.
She (Hikaru) may have assumed Madoka was not serious, or would let her have Kyosuke.

Kyosuke's hardness was IMO because he was not happy with breaking off with Hikaru absolutely, & probably wanted to do it more amicably. He's had Madoka almost in tears though, & was probably shaken by that as well. Then Madoka's notes in class checking up on his progress etc. were just as intense as Hikaru in their own way.

After a comparitively easy happy year (manga is 4, anime 1), the emotional rollercoaster ride for Kyosuke was intense.

Interesting. BTW--I'm reading through the KOR thread in the recommended section and your posts were quite helpful! Some of Madoka's 'hints' didn't catch me until some of your posts in that thread clarified them. It's a tough movie to watch (but beautifully directed), and I think I'll watch it again tonight, as well as some of the latter episodes of the TV series.

I may be no Madoka fan, but she becomes more fascinating the more we talk about her. Quite realistic, actually. We don't get enough characters these days who communicate through "hints" rather than whining, crying, or outspoken behaviour.

[Isuzu Inugami]

Originally Posted by Leaping Larry Jojo

That said, while I agree Kyosuke was gentle to start off with at the lake, he still didn't give her the option of remaining friends with him.

You can't return to that day, however much you want to. You can't get this deep into a relationship and somehow go back to being friends. It just doesn't work. This was a train wreck that was going to happen eventually, no matter what. That's why I love this movie--it's brutal, but honest.

[jojo_home]

Originally Posted by Shimauma

You can't return to that day, however much you want to. You can't get this deep into a relationship and somehow go back to being friends. It just doesn't work. This was a train wreck that was going to happen eventually, no matter what. That's why I love this movie--it's brutal, but honest.

I agree with that, I'm just speaking in relation to how I thought Kyosuke would act. I have no illusions about what was the inevitable, but I thought he would behave a little differently. Either way the outcome would have been the same, but it's the characterization here I'm speakin of.

[Njr Scrawl]

Well, if anyone could go back, it would be Kyosuke, with or without Grandfather & Kazuya's help, (provided he ended up in the same timestream). Complete contast between the final 2 TV eps fantasy solutions & movie 1's reality biting.

Movie 1 is almost like another KOR reality because of its absence of cop-outs. No ESPerism, no day-saving tricks. Irreversible fate. The wistfulness of its title could be that Kyosuke can not or dare not change things (movie 2's scenarios were triggered by accidents).

The cards of fate fell, & Kyosuke was "saved" from losing Madoka & from having to wholly decide on his own what to do. For his & Madoka's mutual desperation for each other, it was the shot in their arms, as their future relationship was at crisis point. Painful medicine!

Poor Hikaru was too sweet for her own good.

There also may be, as in other shows, aspects of general Japanese behaviour & attitude which are unknown to westerners, but more obvious to Japanese viewers, & which give the character actions reactions a different perspective to us. O.O