Comicscape: What is Owed? Continuity for New and Old Readers

What the HECK is up with the formatting on this page? It's about 2.5 screens wide and the right-hand column covers up most of the article text! I really, really, really continue to hate the new layout for this site..... :( (I get this result in both Opera and Firefox, too)

In my opinion, it seems like the reason for all these continuity gaffs and just pretty much nonchalant attitude towards continuity is that there are too many cooks in the kitchen, that don't seem to be using the same recipe. I mean a writer comes on to a comic and ends up changing a lot of things that just shouldn't be changed just because they want to put their mark on it. Well, to go back to the cooking analogy. If your cooking soup and every time some other chef adds their own ingredient, changing the flavor of the soup, chances are that by the end, the soup is going suck. I`m all for bringing in new readers but not at the expense of current ones and doing things like Brand New Day, just to grab some new readers is such a slap in the face to fans.
Secret Invasion in concept is pretty cool, but again waving a magic wand over the Marvel Universe continuity, making things that happened for one reason, now just pointless due to Skrulls is just not cool. Even the whole speculation now that the Cap from the ship could be the real Cap and the dead Cap a Skrull just seriously grinds my gears.

Wow.
Kurt, this was the first article in awhile I decided I wanted to attempt to read-

but, again, Mania seems to be having "growing pains"(I'm trying to be nice here) and renders it unreadable.

Maybe I'll check back again in a few weeks and see if anything looks better.

The reason the cooks don't seem to be on the same recipe at Marvel is due to the worthless leadership at the top (I'm talking about you Joe!). A stronger Editor and Chief would be able to maintain the continuity of the titles, keep the writers in check and still be able to come up with new interesting stories to tell. Instead we get a guy who would rather sell his soul to the devil for a couple extra bucks.

The only DC title I am really in love with is Booster Gold, and right now it seems to have nothing to do with continuity. On the other hand, the main reason I love Marvel is the long-standing web of stories. (LoSH is a-right too, but it's continuity is way F'd up)

Secret Invasion seems to be taking a while to get going. But if the majority of the components are as good as Secret Invasion: Fantastic Four #1, this might be their best mega-event yet. I really enjoyed that one.

As for the good captain... I count four of them (not including Winter Soldier).
(*spoliers* may abound)

1) The corpse of the Captain America that Sharon Carter shot, possilby soon to be reanimated by the Red Skull (if I remember the last issue correctly).
2) The Captain in the shuttle that crashes in the Savage Land.
3) Cap who traveled forward with The Invaders (vs. The Avengers).
4) The body buried in the ice at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy #1.

That's a whole lotta Cappy for a guy who's supposed to be dead!

ponyboy and darkheart we seem to be on the same brain wavelength. marvel needs its own gordan ramsey to kicks its ass and swear/curse a motherfuckin' blue streak to keep those assholes in line.



merin it is almost shocking to read you again, i know the new layout sucks but the regulars have been bearing and i thought you would too (not saying you haven't been around but you haven't been saying much if anything.).



lister i did not know all of that it seems i will have to backtrack and pick up those cap back issues and guardians of the galaxy and read my avengers invaders thanks.



and kurt very good article.

OH YEAH I GOT A JOB WOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, it might just be Vance Astro. We shall see.

Groot!

The whole Skrull thing really seals the deal for me with Marvel. They learned nothing from the whole Spidey-clone/Ben Reilly fiasco a decade ago. Replacing a character people have loved and followed for years with the “original” popping up out of the blue had people leaving that book in droves. Now let’s do the same thing with a whole bunch of books? Oh – and replace Spider-man again.

Haven’t followed ANY Marvel (Well – I will admit to buying the latest New Universal) since the first issue of Brand New Day. While the concept behind Secret Invasion could hold promise I simply have ZERO faith in the Powers That Be at Marvel. Quesada has proven time and again that he has no respect for faithful readers. I do like Bendis. Ultimate Spidey was one of the absolute best superhero titles out there. But that one’s outside main Marvel Continuity and his work within the Marvel U hasn’t been quite as good.

Ultimately I agree w/pony, darkheart & AzuL – Marvel needs someone with some talent in addition to balls who actually respect the properties and long time readers enough to rein in the continuity. Let characters evolve naturally and for God’s sake let that evolution last without some cheap theatrics resetting everything. ENOUGH with the meaningless deaths. Jean Grey, Norman Osborn, HARRY FRIGGIN’ OSBORN, Bucky Barnes. Everything about them has been cheapened. No death has any dramatic weight anymore.

DC is just as bad with the resurrecting of the dead but at least when DC decides it’s time to turn continuity on its head it does so in a way keeping characters in character. Countdown aside, what DC has been up to has been great. It’s been laying the groundwork for awhile starting with Identity Crisis, which is going back to 2004 or so. Final Crisis has been built upon a solid foundation of storytelling (Again – Countdown aside) that’s respectful to the Universe it is in and the fans who love it. Everything that Marvel’s done in this regard seems to be on the cheap and at the expense of the loyal, longtime readers.

I miss Spider-man. If the Spider-man who let himself be replaced by a clone of the original for awhile turns out to have been a Skrull during that entire time then I will write Marvel off forever. There would never be any real point to any emotional interest in ANY of their characters. Why bother?

Life imprisonment to Quesada!

I totally disagree, I actually prefer the way Marvel has gone about over DC's. Neither is perfect but Marvel seems to reboot certain characters as needed and I like that while Dc doesn't seem to know where to go, start all over, kill off the multiverse, bring back the multiverse. IMO that's why DC is always playing second fiddle to Marvel. To me the DC universe seems way more convoluted than Marvel's.

Sure I wasn't to happy with the Brand New Day reset Marvel did with Spidey but I'm still enjoying the book to be honest.

Captain America ( the dead one) wasn't a Skrull. I don't know how they're going to bring him back or explain it but Quesada or Bendes, one of them assured everyone during an interview that that wasn't the case.

WISEGUY I couldn’t disagree more with your disagreement. My problem with Marvel is exactly what you like: they reboot certain characters as needed. But it’s rarely ever actually needed, usually more of a panicky whim, and they usually rely on cheap & easy outs. The whole Spidey/MJ/Mephisto debacle was just the most recent and certainly the most egregious example. They just set the clock back and were done with it. Screw continuity. Screw established character traits. It was magic and we’re done. Thanks for forking over all that money on the last 15 to 20 years that never happened.

I will admit DCU can get a little convoluted. But I’ve always felt they’ve put more effort into retconning things there. Countdown & it’s redonkulous tie-ins aside, which are nothing but crass marketing efforts trying to cash in on the very well done 52 series, everything that’s been leading to Final Crisis, from Identity Crisis on, has been pretty well done in my opinion. I’m personally looking forward to Final Crisis and the DCU’s final outcome.

I was a total Marvel Zombie my first 10 years collecting. I thought they dealt with things more realistically then DC and I could relate more to the characters. That all really started changing for me with the first Crisis series. For me, DC really grew up during that year. It had taken them 20+ years but they were finally answering Marvel’s challenge. Another 5 to 7 years after that and my opinion of both companies had pretty much reversed. DC was putting out much more realistic, adult books with characters I could relate to and Marvel began producing crap like Maximum Carnage and 3 X-Books a week with 3 variant covers each. Substance was being lost at Marvel. Respect for fans was as well. I couldn’t remain blindly faithful to them. DC, the kiddie’s choice, was giving my older self better adult oriented stories then Marvel, the comic company that had basically introduced repercussions to the industry. With rare exceptions I think that trend has continued to this day (the disrespecting Countdown series aside).

Personally I love the cosmic scope of the DC retcons. I’d rather see these changes take place on that scale instead of a character at a time as is convenient for the writer/editor/MoFo In Chief. I think DC challenges itself and its loyal readers more and I think it shows more respect to those loyal readers. Even as things change/return, they do so in a way that shows evolution. I wasn’t happy the Hal Jordan got to be GL again. I personally would have loved him to remain as The Spectre for many decades. But from Hal flippin’ out in the early 90’s to Hal becoming GL again this century we saw a natural evolution, or maybe re-evolution, to get us there. It wasn’t the quick fix that Marvel seems to employ so readily.

But that's just me and I do have to admit to REALLY being disappointed with the whole One More/Brand New Crap. Don't buy Marvel cuz of it.