Spider-Man ONE MORE DAY.
© Marvel Comics
Continuing Continuity: Your Letters
By: Kurt AmackerDate: Wednesday, September 26, 2007
Greetings, Maniacs, and welcome to another installment of the classiest comic book column on the web! I, your humble host, will guide you on another foray into comic shop talk, as we read your letters regarding the continuity problems facing Marvel and DC’s respective shared universes. Last week, I suggested that because Marvel and DC writers often selectively ignore continuity anyway, so they might as well just treat their characters as American folklore. In doing so, they should recognize the – occasionally debatable – commonly understood origin stories of the older characters and just write what they will. The older Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, the X-Men, and so many other classic characters become, the more stories they will accumulate. Thus, it becomes well nigh impossible for most writers to keep continuity with everything written prior to their run. As such, new writers frequently have to either find convoluted explanations, retcon characters’ origins, or ignore stories altogether to justify their present tales. If you’ve read the spoilers – assuming they’re accurate – for the recent Spider-Man crossover, One More Day, you know what I mean. Hence, if the writers and publishers already engage in selective observation of continuity, I say they just own up to it and write what they want to write. Few people will read every Spider-Man comic ever written, so most won’t even have the background to wonder about things like the missing infant Mayday Parker from The Clone Saga. But, by all rights, that story should still reverberate within Peter Parker’s world. But it doesn’t, because Marvel cancelled it for logistical reasons. Tom DeFalco only picked up the thread in his MC2 title, Spider-Girl, with no reflection on the main Marvel Universe. While that sort of logic may seem heretical to those beholden to strict continuity, it would simplify things for readers new and old alike. I don’t mean for every story to constitute a radical rethinking of the character, like “In this arc, Spider-Man’s a serial killer!” But, it would be nice if writers could just treat the characters in a manner similar to DC’s All-Star line: maintain the essence and write great stories. Let the fans debate the question of each character’s essence on message boards and let writers do their damndest to make stories that live up to the best ones that have come before. I give you your letters.
Maniac Joel Handloff writes, “The continuity thing is, in my opinion, part of what keeps people from getting into comics in the first place, not, as is often stated, because there's too much history for people to catch up on. Let’s face it, the average comic doesn't require you to have anything more than a basic understanding of the character (if that). The problem is that a gazillion years of continuity allows fanboys to talk as if you need to know all that history. It allows Pre-Crisis Superman Fan to talk to Post-Crisis Superman Fan in a way that excludes most of humanity.
By the way, I used to be that guy in high school. I prided myself on a vast knowledge of the differences between all of DC’s Earths. It’s sort of like listening in to a couple of geeks going on about how to set up their company's network. Basic network concepts are easy. Anyone can learn them. It's only the details that are tough, and those aren't required for a casual understanding.”
I find that people will use their specialized knowledge of anything to feel superior to others. There’s nothing quite like being talked down to by a Vampire: The Masquerade player who throws around his clan name and talks about obfuscating in an elevator at a LARP at GenCon. I get it – you’re still a virgin, but you’re a fine prince of the city.
“Anyhow, what I love about the Ultimates line is that it has allowed me to follow the stories from the beginning, especially as they keep collecting them into trade paperbacks, which are all I'll buy.”
And, thankfully, the Ultimate trades are simply numbered. I usually just buy a stack of them once a year or so and get caught up.
“Maintaining continuity and shucking it all in favor of a great story aren't mutually exclusive (as you noted). There's really no reason we couldn't see more limited series of our regular characters that are outside of continuity.”
Marvel kind of does that with the Knights line, but I understand what you mean.
“I don't read Superman because, well, there's just too much. But I love the limited series that appear from time to time. Really, these get to explore the character in deeper ways, and not just because they are free from history.”
It also helps if you just read certain writers. If you like Kurt Busiek, read his run on Action Comics and drop it if you don’t like the next guy that comes on. If someone else you like starts on the title in a year, grab it again. I’ve been getting Uncanny X-Men because Ed Brubaker writes it. If some hack comes on after he leaves, I’ll drop it until someone else I like takes over.
“Part of me really likes the idea of a 10 to 15 year reboot cycle. [I mean a] complete reboot –none of this merging continuity crap. I think Ellis suggested the idea of rebooting the Ultimate line every decade or so (not that he works on the line or anything). I'd love that. Ten years gives you plenty of time to tell real stories, instead of just running a title on and on and on.”
That’s actually a pretty good idea. But, it’s a really far-reaching plan. Marvel might not be around in that long. Thanks for writing.
Maniac Brad Dade writes, “Great article.”
Thanks, I’m here to help.
“I'm in my early 30's and have collected comics since I was 15. For me, it is interesting to sit back and look at the history I've already seen in the comics world. God, sometimes I can't believe The Death of Superman was over 15 years ago!”
Now you’re making me feel old.
“About your article: I think sometimes people that read comics confuse "realism" with "believability." Believability, to me, is that characters do things that would make sense within their own little world. Realism is an attempt to invoke our real world too much in the comic book world. Example: it is believable Batman can scare the Justice League and the public into believing that he can apparently do anything and beat anyone. But if one applied – for lack of a better word, realism,one would have to admit in today's wired-up world, there is no way Batman would be able to maintain his secret identity. Or for that matter, it is not realistic to believe Batman could really defeat someone like the Flash. Considering that the speed the Flash moves at, he could hit Batman 100 times before he pulled a Batarang.”
I remember during Greg Rucka’s Countdown to Infinite Crisis miniseries, The OMAC Project, there was a crossover into a few regular Superman titles. In one of them Superman hallucinated that he was fighting Darkseid, when he was actually beating the hell out of Batman. I don’t care how much time Bruce Wayne puts in at the gym. Realistically, he’d be lucky to eat solid food and say his own name after something like that.
“Is Marvel's Civil War realistic? In a word, yes. Of course in the real world if you had individuals that wore masks and could destroy city blocks, the government would want to enact laws to prevent or at least control them. Does that dose of realism make Civil War a good read? I personally didn't think so, for many of the reasons others have said. What does this long rant mean? I really believe DC and Marvel have more or less given up building for the next generation of fans. They seem content in trying to milk every dollar they can out of existing fans.”
And, we’re not getting any younger. Then again, kids don’t spend hundreds of dollars to attend cons, buy CGC-graded variants, or snap-up limited run omnibus hardcover volumes.
“If the multiverse was removed 20 years ago in order to make the DC universe more accessible to new readers, how does bringing it back now help motivate young readers to come check out the comics? Is this merely pandering to the older fans? And, making all Marvel heroes civil servants and removing Spidey's ID may make headlines now, but what about years from now?”
I don’t know what the hell possessed DC to bring the multiverse back, unless it intends to kill the whole thing after Final Crisis and wanted to give longtime readers a final hurrah. I think the whole bit with Spider-Man revealing his identity will likely be wiped after One More Day, but that’s just my speculation.
“I remember when I first started collecting. I was mainly collecting Batman books. But, the funny thing was that they were not so intergrated with the rest of the DC universe. I could read a year's worth of Batman and, for the most part, not need to study up on the various goings-on in the DC universe. If DC and Marvel were not so focused on events now, there would not be so many continuity issues. Continuing the trend can possibly lead to another slide similar to the 1990's. Fans only have [a certain amount of money]. And as the fan base gets older, with fewer kids coming into the hobby behind them, they have pesky things like house bills, children, etc. to consider. For an older fan to continue to want to collect the books they love, they need to continue to find reasons to love that book. And every few months trying to shoehorn books into company wide events will only force that older fan to ask ‘Who cares?’ and move on.”
I think Marvel and DC believe that by making the universes more realistic, as you defined it, they mature their comics alongside the readers. Whether that makes sense in the long run, we can only wait and see.
“How to sum up this long rant? Have a good story people can enjoy and quit trying to tinker with continuity like it matters. I'm not saying every writer should forget those that came before them. What I am saying is that if you concentrate on a good story, rather than a gimmick, you would be surprised how well fans may accept that.”
Thanks for writing.
Henry Harris writes, “I’m an older adult who read comic books as a child and have been following the comic characters ever since in their various incarnations in print, video and film. The thing that has always intrigued me about the comics was the concept of the vigilante as a common theme. Paradoxically, when I was young I viewed this as simply fantasy, not having much to do with the real world. But as I grew older and saw how corrupt people and society really are, I started admiring these characters, not as a fantasy, but as an exploration of a fundamental problem with human civilization. And as the comics anticipated, the exponential rise of technology has only heightened the danger that these defects in human psychology have surely created.”
I think my enthusiasm for the idea of vigilanteism as a practical solution has waned with age. But, I think that superheroes still serve – or should, anyway – as a fine example of how to behave heroically. Though you might not foil bank robberies or beat up purse snatchers, you can consider the motivations for such behavior in the fantasy world – nobility, honor, sacrifice for the good of others, and a desire to protect the innocent from those who would prey on them. You can apply those lessons to your own life. I think Marvel and DC would do well to remember the simply appeal of superheroes and not worry as much about how the real world would receive them, at least in their main universes. Go nuts in Vertigo, MAX, Marvel Knights, the Ultimate line, Elseworlds, and the like.
“Also, I have come to realize that many of the ideas expounded in comics are strangely parallel to the development of modern physics. Physicists (I'm one of them) also talk about a multiverse, an infinite number of parallel universes with different laws of nature and intelligent creatures. I only need only to point out that in an infinite number of universes, anything is possible. Perhaps the imagination of the creators of comics actually have some kind of reality somewhere out there in the infinite multiverse.”
We can only hope. Thanks to everyone that wrote! I’ll see you all next week.
The Spinner Rack
By Ben Johnson and Kurt Amacker
Ben: Sex, Drugs and Comic Books.
Kurt: Can I leave out the drugs? I work for the government.
DARK HORSE COMICS
Berserk Vol 19 Tp (MR) $13.95
Speak O/T Devil #2 (Of 6) $3.50
Ben: What does over time have to do with the Prince of Darkness?
Kurt: Satan called, Ben. He said to tell you that he has all the time in the world
Usagi Yojimbo #106 $2.99
Ben: Is that a…
Weta Goliathon 83 Infinity Beam Projector $690.00
Ben: …in your pants or are you just happy to see me?
Kurt: I want to look at Dark Horse’s website to see what this is, but I don’t think it could possibly live up to the expectations set by a $690 price tag. This has to be a time machine or something.
DC COMICS
52 Aftermath The Four Horsemen #2 (Of 6) $2.99
All Star Batman And Robin The Boy Wonder #7 $2.99
Ben: I’m really starting to wonder if this is the worst deconstruction piece ever, or if it’s the best deconstruction satire ever.
Kurt: Are they still publishing this?
All Star Batman And Robin Var Ed #7 $2.99
Ben: I’m really starting to wonder if this is the worst deconstruction piece variant ever, or if it’s the best deconstruction variant satire ever.
Kurt: I guess so. Somebody tell me when it gets good.
American Virgin #19 (MR) $2.99
Astro City The Dark Age Book Two #4 $2.99
Batman #669 $2.99
Batman Black And White Vol 1 TP New Edition $19.99
Blue Beetle #19 $2.99
Cartoon Network Block Party #37 $2.25
Countdown 31 $2.99
Ben: Last issue was actually really good in comparison to previous issues, which is another way of saying on a scale of 1-to-suck, it was a 9.
Countdown To Adventure #2 (Of 8) $3.99
Ben: I just find myself hating DC more and more.
Kurt: I’m not going to jump on this train that Ben’s driving, because it really depends on who’s writing the comics.
Crossing Midnight #11 (MR) $2.99
Deathblow #7 $2.99
Friday The 13th TP (MR) $14.99
Green Arrow Year One #5 (Of 6) $2.99
JLA Classified #43 $2.99
JSA Classified #30 $2.99
Justice League Of America #13 Cvr A $2.99
Ben: A new writer will hopefully bring new direction.
Justice League Of America #13 Cvr B $2.99
Sandman Mystery Theatre Sleep Of Reason TP (MR) $14.99
Showcase Presents Metal Men Vol 1 TP $16.99
Spirit #10 $2.99
Ben: 18 year Glenlivet.
Supergirl And The Legion Of Super Heroes #34 $2.99
Kurt: Did they ever resolve how she got there?
Superman Confidential #6 $2.99
Kurt: Is this any good?
Supernatural Origins #5 $2.99
Swan Vol 11 $9.99
Kurt: Featuring Michael Gira, a capella.
Teen Titans #51 $2.99
Ben: The Titans of the Tomorrow, many of whom are dead in the present, make their way to the past from a future that supposedly no longer exists to extract their revenge on the present Titans who defeated them in the future before returning to the past to make a pact that they would never become the Titans of Tomorrow. Have fun!
Kurt: Please tell me you just made that up.
Teen Titans Go #47 $2.25
Teen Titans Vol 7 Titans East TP $14.99
Tower Of The Future Vol 8 $9.99
Ben: I used to work here, but going back in forth between the future and the past gave me time herpes.
Kurt: Who wins the next presidential election?
Uncle Sam And The Freedom Fighters #1 (Of 8) $2.99
Wetworks #13 $2.99
Wonder Woman Annual #1 $3.99
Kurt: This concludes Allan Heinberg’s arc from the first four issues of the new series. Allow me to laugh deep, rich, wholehearted, well-breathed guffaws that will echo through the night sky.
IMAGE COMICS
Astounding Wolf-Man #3 $2.99
Ben: Has anyone been reading this?
Kurt: I picked up the first two, so I’ll probably read through them this week.
Brit #2 $2.99
Ben: This issue deals with her break up with Kevin Federline. For more info follow this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc&feature=bz301
Kurt: Satan called back. They’ve booked you a room in Hell.
Killing Girl #2 (Of 5) (MR) $2.99
Ben: Why stop with one?
Killing Girl 2nd Ptg #1 (Of 5) (MR) $2.99
Kiss 4k Ltd Ed Preview Book $10.00
Madman Vol 1 TP $24.99
Ben: This was me when I found out Mike Allred completely retconned the entire first volume.
Savage Dragon #132 (Note Price) $6.99
Walking Dead Vol 7 The Calm Before TP (MR) $12.99
Kurt: Wait, “the calm before TP”? Where the hell is Ben with the obligatory scat joke?
MARVEL COMICS
Annihilation Conquest Star Lord #3 (Of 4) $2.99
Ben: Rocket Raccoon is a sadistic bastard.
Avengers Defenders War Premiere DM Ed HC $19.99
Avengers Defenders War Premiere HC $19.99
Avengers Initiative #6 CWI $2.99
Ben: The best Avengers book going.
Cable Deadpool #45 $2.99
Captain America Chosen #2 (Of 6) $3.99
Kurt: Sadly, this boasts no guest appearance by John Rambo.
Captain America Red White & Blue TP $19.99
Criminal #9 (MR) $2.99
Ben: I wish Marvel would make more use of its Icon line; books like this one are awesome.
Kurt: That’s because Ed Brubaker possesses the mystical Gloves of Awesomeness. They bestow any comic writer who wears them with unparalleled powers of ass-kickery.
Daredevil Devil Hell To Pay Vol 1 TP $14.99
Kurt: I’m not sure why this is a first volume. It’s #94-99 of the current volume of the series.
Franklin Richards Monster Mash $2.99
Ben: I’m going to find the best one of these I can and get it graded. I’m hoping for at least a 9.8 CGC.
Ghost Rider Trail Of Tears Premiere HC $19.99
Halo Uprising 2nd Ptg Sketch Var #1 (Of 4) (MR) $3.99
Immortal Iron Fist #9 $2.99
Ben: Ed Brubaker takes the concept of Mortal Kombat and makes it awesome.
Immortal Iron Fist Annual #1 $3.99
Kurt: Damn, Ed Brubaker’s been busy!
Iron Man #22 $2.99
Ben: It’s what my wife calls me.
Kurt: Just keep in mind that there were 21 before you.
Iron Man Hypervelocity TP $14.99
Loki TP $12.99
Marvel Adventures Iron Man #5 $2.99
Ben: The non-asshole Tony Stark.
Kurt: Does this one drink, at least?
Marvel Illustrated Last Of The Mohicans #5 (Of 6) $2.99
Marvel Masterworks Fantastic Four Vol 5 2nd Ed HC $54.99
Marvel Spotlight Thor $2.99
Marvel Zombies Book Angels Demons & Monstrosities $3.99
Punisher Max Annual #1 (MR) $3.99
Kurt: This is not by Garth Ennis, but you should still buy it. Annuals are awesome.
Punisher Presents Barracuda Max TP (MR) $17.99
Sub-Mariner #4 (Of 6) CWI $2.99
The Order #3 CWI $2.99
Thor 3rd Ptg Sketch Var #1 $2.99
Kurt: This, however, is not awesome. Sorry, guys.
Ultimate Fantastic Four #46 $2.99
Ben: The end of the Silver Surfer arc. This has been some great storytelling.
Ultimate Spider-Man #114 $2.99
Ben: I still can’t get used to seeing a new artist on this book.
White Tiger Heroes Compulsion TP $14.99
X-Men #203 $2.99
Kurt: I really hope they reprint this Endangered Species backup in a trade, because I’m not buying all of these crossover issues.
X-Men First Class Vol 2 #4 $2.99
More From Mania
Comicscape: What is Owed? Continuity for New and Old Readers
Continuity Crisis
(Wednesday, September 19, 2007)
The Obligatory Year In Review Column
(Thursday, December 28, 2006)
Comicscape - February 11, 2004
(Wednesday, February 11, 2004)
AVENGERS #57
(Tuesday, September 3, 2002)
DAN AND LARRY IN DON'T DO THAT
(Monday, December 3, 2001)
ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN: Brian Michael Bendis
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I forget what I was gonna say. Oh! Yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only guy who thinks the Thor relaunch is lame. I thought they were gonna go back to the old Donald Blake days and get away from all the mythology stuff, which I don't think works very well in the Marvel Universe. But no, so far it looks like they're going more Asgard than ever. Boo.