How is the Ledger vs. Nicholson an argument?  The score on that game ended a long time a go and the final score was Heath Ledger 's Joker "Academy Award winner" . Jack Nicholson's Joker "0".

If Nicholson had died immediately after filming Batman, awards season would probably have gone very differently.  I'm not saying Ledger didn't deserve to win, mind you.  It certainly greased the wheels, though.  For the record, I prefer Ledger's portrayal as well.

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Nicholson was just ahead of his time, that's all

Hanso, you're 1000% right.  This JN Joker vs. HL Joker isn't even a contest...it's a very sad joke to compare JN performance to HL's and a major reason for that is the Best Supporting Actor Oscar that HL won for his Joker not to mention the Golden Globe win in the same category as well!  JN didn't even get an Oscar nom, all he got was a GG nom...and he didn't even win that!  So Wyldstar, I disagree when you hinted that JN may have won something if he had died.  Beside, HL had already gained tremendous momentum or Oscar buzz for his Joker long before he was even nominated.  In the words of FerretJohn, "Sorry Jack, you may be among the all time great actors in history but when it came to Jokers, let's face it, Health owned you."  Man, isn't that the truth!!  Wise, the only thing we agree here is about the JN Joker being ahead of his time in terms of the brief controversey that took place at the time.  Some virgin eared and eyed parents were concerned that the JN Joker was a tad too violent.  While I agree that his version was more so then before that was only because too many were too used to the previous more sunny versions of the Joker like from the 1980's Batman animation series (the 1990's series was way the hell better of course) and especially the ultra campy, Ceasar Romaro version.  Another note to mention, is that you've criticised the Bale Batman on a past thread for "farming out his work."  As intelligent as Batman is, he's not a scientific genius and besides he's a billionaire; he can afford to do so!  At least we see where his gear comes from and the industry behind it; it doesn't just magically appear like in the Keaton versions!

Kara, I primarily agree with you on the 'best captain" debate although I liked Shatner's Kirk the best by a light year!  But I strongly disagree with you that Bale's Bruce Wayne sucks but I'm sure that that doesn't surprise you by now!!  LOL!!  My guess is personality differences.  You may just "like" Keaton's Wayne better and I admit he was better in that role than he was as Batman, but that's not saying a lot because he didn't do much as Batman!  I admit that because Keaton is such a good actor he certainly didn't make a fool of himself, so I'll give him that.

Jedibanner, Batman creator Bob Kane may have chosen Val Kilmer as the best Batman at the time but that was some time ago.  Kane passed away in 1998; 7 years before he got to see the best Batman in the best Batman movie series with Batman Begins!!  A pity he died before realizing that great truth!!

Eaglemaniac, to each their own as I've stated in the past but I don't see how you can say that (when comparing Keaton's BM to Bale's) "Keaton kicks his ass."  I don't think so!!  Keaton's little ass was way the hell too small and skinny to play the part and that alone should've disqualified him.  At least Bale looked the part let alone bring an intensity that Keaton sorely lacked (hey, even our friend Kara admits that!)  Bale's Batman also had to use a different voice in order to mask his identity.  Bale also trained in real martial arts and did most of his own stunts; I doubt you can say the same for Keaton!!  Another thing, Batman is arguably the greatest martial artist in the DC Universe and would never have his ass served to him by some common thug like Keaton's Batman did near the end of Batman (1989) so spare us!!  You may like Keaton better and that's fine, but don't give us this nonesense that he kicks the ass of Bale's BM because that's a big time joke!!  Speaking of JOKES (which is a great seqway!), you've also said that the HL Joker "wasn't the Joker."  By what standard are you using?  IMO, too many have the Ceasor Romaro version in their minds way too much or some of the comic versions that were related to that at the time.  The JN Joker didn't show enough of a sadistic sense of humor, intelligence, cold calculating manner, and vicious psychopath that HL brilliantly showed and of course he played him like a "maniac" because that's the Joker, he is crazy, HELLO!  Last I checked the HL Joker (and the true "Clown Prince Crime!), believe it or not, is much closer to the comics than many realize, both the original and the more recent (which were much violent) going back for some time, not to mention the DC Comics Encyclopedia!

Someone earlier had stated my opinion right on (it's like they read my mind!)  Roger Moore is my favorite Bond but I can put my bias aside and admit that Sean Connery is likely the best Bond or the one that we feel he should be.  George Lasenby did a great job as Bond in On Her Majesty's Secret Service and that film still holds up fairly well, it certainly deserved a better fate.  In one of the dvd documentaries for the movie, Lasenby had stated that his agent had discouraged him from continuing as Bond because it was seen too much as Conery's role!  Even if that were true, it's not certain that the producers would've kept him on as Bond because in that same docu. the producers admitted that Lasenby was more than likely scapegoated due to the movie's lack of success at the time.  Overall, Timothy Dalton was good but not great because IMO he lacked a certain charm and humor that should go with that character.  He was too serious not to mention the fact that he didn't last because the fans overall have rejected him.  Of the 2 Bond films he did, only The Living Daylights was good and even that wasn't great.  License to Kill grossed over $100 million worldwide but it flopped domestically.  Pierce Brosnan was certainly a step up from Dalton and thought he was a very good Bond.  Daniel Craig is an excellent Bond in terms of the ultra realism scenario that the producers have decided to embark upon.

Wise, in a way I think I see why you dislike Craig as Bond.  That version may be too ultra realistic just as Bale's BM is.  Even though we disagree on Nolan's BM, I believe we agree on Bond (although feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this) because even though I like the current Craig spin on the character, I must admit that I too enjoy the more fantasy oriented Bond from earlier films from the Connery and Moore eras.

KD, I enjoy this new Bond too but he just seems more of the same nowadays. You know like Bourne and every other Liam Neeson role for example. There isn't that suave ultra cool character ala Moore, who is my fave also. Nevermind the gadgets, although I admit sometimes they went too far

The Nicholson/Ledher thing again? People act like Nicholson was just a goofball but he was a cold blooded killer too. He personified the JOKER to a tee all the way around.

Wise, I see what you're saying.  Looking back on it and reexamining JN's Joker and putting aside my bias for a moment, he certainly wasn't bad.  In Batman (1989) he certainly had his moments of ruthlessness in the scenes where he shot the Jack Palance character over and over again as well as where he electrocuted one of the gangsters with his hand-gaget.  He did what he was asked to do but in a different way than the HL Joker.  I may have been a too hard on JN's portrayal and I was likely wrong in using hyperbole by calling his performance "one dimensional" on another thread some time ago.  However, I still like the HL Joker much more and feel that he brought much more depth to the character by making him more threatening, terroristic and unpredictable.  As you've stated before, perhaps it's the times, especially since 9/11, that allowed a performance like HL's Joker to flourish in a way that may not have been possible before.  If they thought back then that the JN Joker was controversial, can anyone imagine how much more so the HL Joker would've been if portrayed back then?!!

There will only ever be one James Bond and that will be . . . . Bob Holness.

And the only captain of the Enteprise . . .Robert April At least he didn't let Deanna drive it.