Mexico to decriminalize pot, cocaine and heroin

[Space Tycoon]

Mexico to decriminalize pot, cocaine and heroin (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060428/ts_nm/mexico_drugs_dc)

I don't know if this is going to work. It is an encouraging step, but the application of it will tell the tale.

In Canada we decriminalized pot possession to some degree. But the sale and distribution end of it was still illegal. This had the effect of increasing the demand, while continuing to outlaw the suppliers filling that demand. The result? More gang violence, more gun crime.

I'm for legalizing drugs altogether, period. At the very least, pot and other soft drugs. But in order to do it right, you have to legalize the entire enterprise--for consenting adults, of course.

Treat it as a business like any other.




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[Asonokirk V 2.0]

This should be fun. I can see the ads now . . .

"Come to Mexico . . . enjoy your stay . . . we got lots of "stuff" here for you to try, er, do . . . "

:)


Seriously, this might have a much more profound effect than one might think at first glance.

[TrixieB]

I read about this the other day and I am of the same mindset as you are, for the most part. I don't have a problem with pot being legal, but the cocaine and heroin bother me a bit. I've seen people who have a habit with both and it isn't pretty and much more dangerous than booze or weed. In any event, if it's OK to have it and use it, you have to be able to get it somehow.

[Space Tycoon]

It's a question of qualitative harm vs. quantitative harm. Qualitatively, hard drugs are far more harmful than, say, alcohol. But quantitatively, alcohol is by far the bigger danger.

I am of the mindset that outlawing drugs in general actually does more harm than good. Rather than treating it as a criminal issue, we should be treating it as an issue of public health.



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[Son of Gilbert]

I leave for Mexico in 29 days, my vacation just got a WHOLE lot better

[Intelligent_Design]

It's a question of qualitative harm vs. quantitative harm. Qualitatively, hard drugs are far more harmful than, say, alcohol.




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I think Alcohol is the most dangerous drug out there as far as the damage it causes. And Why didn't Mexico pass this When I was there in Nov.....oh yeah I wouldn't have come back.:lol:

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

I leave for Mexico in 29 days, my vacation just got a WHOLE lot better

Just be careful. Someone'll sell you something that's just a hair over the legal allowable quantity, and then turn you in for a split of your bribe money.

[Stephen]

hmm my kind of topic! haha.


:smirks:

[Magell]

I'm all for the legalizing of all recreational drugs. Legalizing their sale is the important start because the violence surrounding drug use comes almost completely from turf warfare between dealers. Plus think of the money the government can make from taxing it.

[Bill_the_Pony]

That's all fine and well, but this particular situation doesn't look like it's going to solve anything. It'll probably aggravate the situation even more, regarding smuggling and turf control.

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

I think it is safe for me to say this, given every other person I know feels the same way. There is no rational reason for the laws we have banning the possession of what are universally called recreational drugs. It is the laws that have created the actual problems experienced by society due to drug use.

All the necessary laws are in place protecting society from harmful behaviors. If someone robs a liquor store, and they are either high on drugs, or committing the crime in order to get money for drugs, then the KEY PART OF THEIR BEHAVIOR, IS THEIR ACTUAL BEHAVIOR! Robbing the store is what they are doing that is wrong. The reason they are robbing the store is not relevant. You arrest them and punish them for this action, not for the reasons behind the action.

I'm sure that the fear exists in a large segment of our society that should drugs be decriminalized, we risk having a society where people under the influence of a drug perform inadequately in important situations. This is the argument I hear most frequently from those who want drugs to be illegal, that more people will use drugs, leading to a host of problems for everyone.
I have to question this line of reasoning, as it seems to me that everyone who wants to take illegal drugs, IS DOING SO ALREADY.

People don't choose to avoid drugs because they're illegal, they avoid them because they don't want to experience their use. No one that I know of decides to exhibit some kind of behavior contrary to their own natures just because something is legal or illegal. People who speed on the roads do so without regard to the law, just as people who don't speed do so because that is what they choose to do.

Personally, I don't care how legal heroin becomes, I have no interest in it and would never choose to do it, the same way I'm not going to order food I don't like in a restaurant.

I think maybe we (the collective governments at the local, state and federal levels) need to relax a bit and begin to trust ourselves to do the right thing. Remember, all of the negative outcomes of behavior generated by drug use are already punishable by law. If the only negative outcome is to yourself (or involving others in a non-criminal and measurable and observable way), then we have medical treatment programs designed to help people overcome their addictions on a personal basis.

There is a gestalt that has driven the thinking of government, and it is that the government does not have faith or trust in the people it governs. That gestalt is made manifest physically in the form of laws banning drugs. There are many other examples in our society where the government's mistrust of its citizens are apparent.

Maybe it is time we move forward? Huh?

[Magell]

To back up what Asonokirk just said the only reason that the laws were passed to criminalize drugs was because it was at the same time they passed prohibition so they decided to criminalize drugs while they were at it.

I completely agree with the idea that crimes are already illegal so you don't have to worry about criminals not being penalized because they are high on drugs. It's like hate crimes. It's already a crime you don't need to add another penalty just because there is another factor you can add on to it.

[syphon2006]

I think that decriminalizing Pot is a big step in the right direction for Mexico. This just shows how far we (United States) are behind. I don't think pot will be legallized in the U.S. for at least another ten years. I don't like the fact that Coke and heroin are going to be legallized in Mexico but oh well. I think after reading this article I'll take a trip down to Mexico sometime soon... :D

[Stephen]

Can only imagine how many busts there will be at the Mexico border now

[Space Tycoon]

That's all fine and well, but this particular situation doesn't look like it's going to solve anything. It'll probably aggravate the situation even more, regarding smuggling and turf control.That's exactly what I'm saying. It's the same half-assed approach as in Canada, where the government decriminalized possession but promised to crack down ever harder on organized crime. Simple economics tells us that decriminalization would increase the accessibility and use of pot, thereby creating the very incentive for the dealers to increase their activity.

I mean, duh. If I can figure it out, you'd think the politicians could. But no. Up here it was the usual big-L Liberal wishy-washy approach to things. Change the laws to attract certain demographics--namely, youth and the stoners-- while assuring the soccer moms and suburbanites that the War on Drugs would continue ever onward.

Except that a lot of the soccer moms like to burn one now and then... so maybe my analysis doesn't hold much water. :dunno:

Anyway. Either legalize it outright, or go full throttle trying to stamp it out. Unfortunately, the only countries that have ever been able to claim any real progress in fighting the drug trade are totalitarian ones. And it usually doesn't last forever. Look how quickly the opium trade got restarted once Taliban were removed from power.

Hopefully at least, this could represent the beginning of a shift in attitudes towards drugs as an industry.




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[Asonokirk V 2.0]

I think that decriminalizing Pot is a big step in the right direction for Mexico. This just shows how far we (United States) are behind. I don't think pot will be legallized in the U.S. for at least another ten years. I don't like the fact that Coke and heroin are going to be legallized in Mexico but oh well. I think after reading this article I'll take a trip down to Mexico sometime soon... :D

Uh, I don't think the U.S. is really "behind." I haven't actually looked at the statistics, but I suspect possession of drugs gets you the death penalty in a lot of places, and hardly ANY countries have laws any more lenient than we have.

However, here is a link to that information should you wish to look the laws up, country by country. I didn't look at any myself.

DRUG LAWS BY COUNTRY (http://www.unodc.org/unodc/legal_library/index-countries.html)

[Stephen]

States like New Hampshire, which I live in, are against legalizing pot and against medical marijuana, etc.. Yet they reel in huge profits on blunt wraps and rolling papers, and other "tobacco" use only products. Tobacco usage my ass.


Trust me, this country racks in great money on marijuana already, even though its "illegal". I love marijuana but it'd really serve them no huge benefit to legalize it, nor would it make much of a difference economically which is a main argument a lot of pro-legalization people say. Plus if they did legalize it, a lot of people would take offense to that, and itd make a poorer image on an already poor imaged country. Trust me, there are a lot more people out there against legalizing it then there are pro legalizing it.

Itd be great if it were legal but I doubt it'll happen, at least not for many generations

[Magell]

If you legalized drugs you would decrease a lot of the problems with prison overcrowding. Legalizing drugs isn't going to make people hate America anymore than they already do.

[syphon2006]

Asonokirk, I enjoyed looking at the different countries and their different takes on the subject. Are laws aren't really leinint when it comes to drugs. There is lots of money being raked in over drugs and if the government were smart it should just go ahead and legallize it, and rake in the money from taxing it and why not set standards like they do on Alcohol, Only sell it to people of a certain age? Only an opinon.

[kah]

I agree with Syphon. I haven't touched any type of illegal drug in years, and I don't have an inclination to do so now. That doesn't mean that I think they should be illegal. Legalize pot, tax the shit out of it, and if someone gets pulled over stoned, then give them a DUI. Same thing with being stoned at work. If you are drunk at work, you will get fired, doubly so if you work with equipment, so make the rules apply there, too. I don't think kids should have access, so make the age limit 18, or 21. Seriously, most adults I know, between the ages of 18 and 65, have smoked or do smoke pot. If they were in possession of slightly too much, though, they could go to prison for a long time for intent to sell. Why is that ok? It's a minor offense to have pot and to smoke it, but if you wanted to stock up to make it through to the next paycheck, you could be in deep shit. I think the drug laws are heavyhanded, and that more expense and time needs to be spent on the people who are bringing it into the country, and the people who are selling it to children. Leave the lonely stoners alone. The only one they harm is their brain. And likely their bank account.

[Intelligent_Design]

I agree with Syphon. I haven't touched any type of illegal drug in years, and I don't have an inclination to do so now. That doesn't mean that I think they should be illegal. Legalize pot, tax the shit out of it,

Tell me who on earth would pay for some over-priced over-taxed weed when it would be cheaper and easier to grow it yourself. Its not like Alcohol where you need a brewery or distillery system. All you need is Dirt, Seeds, Light, and a Pot.

[kah]

Tell me who on earth would pay for some over-priced over-taxed weed when it would be cheaper and easier to grow it yourself. Its not like Alcohol where you need a brewery or distillery system. All you need is Dirt, Seeds, Light, and a Pot.

You forget that pot-heads are lazy. Yes, some will grow it themselves, and that would be the best scenario, but there are always going to be people out there who are too lazy to do it themselves.

[DaForce]

Tell me who on earth would pay for some over-priced over-taxed weed when it would be cheaper and easier to grow it yourself. Its not like Alcohol where you need a brewery or distillery system. All you need is Dirt, Seeds, Light, and a Pot.

Uh, actually it's cheaper to make your own alcohol than it would be to grow your own pot. The energy bills with pot growing are enormus.







Or so I've been told.



:eyebrow:

[southpaw]

Police cut down HUGE crops all the time growing out in the woods. They do around here anyway (maybe it's a Southern thing) You can grow some pretty potent stuff with only seeds, dirt, and tender loving care.


If it's Hydroponics you're talking about as far as enormus amounts of money being spent, all the equipment needed to grow plants for private use (usually 6 to 11 small plants) will cost you $300 to $800 dollars. Considering you can't get an ounce for less than $120 nowadays even with the energy it would take to run the equipment (which would be less than say a tanning bed) a smoker would come out the better in the long run.



It might be easier to brew your own beer or whatever, but is anyone doing it? NO, you want beer you go pick up a six pack. Why? Because it's just easier and 99% of the time the beer in the store is gonna be better than anything you could try to make in your bathtub. It would be the same way with weed.

[Bill_the_Pony]

Back in the days (late 80's), when I did this sort of thing....there was one summer when I grew it in my backyard, all it took was potting spoil, some 5-gallon plastic containers, a little know-how and TLC. :hugs: I planted in April, and with plenty of watering, fetilising, and pinching the tops, had several robust bushes of varying subspecies. Out of 15 pots, I had to lay to rest 4 of them because they were males and I did not want them to pollinate the remaining 11 females...this of course resulted in sticky female sinsemilla buds. By early August, I started to force flower them, ie bringing them into the garage at 4 pm to shorten the day cycle, tricking them into thinking that days were shortening, thus triggering the flowering cycle. I returned them to sunlight at 7:30 am, and did this for about a month, and just when the smell was overpowering, and the paranoia reached critical mass, I harvested, and laid the budding branches out on screens in my garage or hung them upside down to let them air dry. The leaf also had smaller quantities of THC in them, so I dried that out and created thru a high-proof alcohol bath an extract butter that I use in recipes (I had it down to a math, using a standard spice-oatmeal cookie recipe that contained one teaspoon of butter per cookie, each cookie resulting in one four-hour high, etc etc, keeping me in supply for literally a year from the butter I made). The beautiful green bud of varying types, I kept in separated tupperware containers in my freezer, and had a year's supply of nice smoke. :)

I also kept the whole thing a secret from greedy acquaintances, this is the sort of thing that generates envy, theft, and phony friends ("HEYYYYY, dude, howssss it GOOOING? Uhhhhhh, ya got any bud?" :rolleyes: ).

Suh-weet. :D

But I don't do this thing anymore. It is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. :angry

[sickness]

Police cut down HUGE crops all the time growing out in the woods. They do around here anyway (maybe it's a Southern thing) You can grow some pretty potent stuff with only seeds, dirt, and tender loving care.


If it's Hydroponics you're talking about as far as enormus amounts of money being spent, all the equipment needed to grow plants for private use (usually 6 to 11 small plants) will cost you $300 to $800 dollars. Considering you can't get an ounce for less than $120 nowadays even with the energy it would take to run the equipment (which would be less than say a tanning bed) a smoker would come out the better in the long run.



It might be easier to brew your own beer or whatever, but is anyone doing it? NO, you want beer you go pick up a six pack. Why? Because it's just easier and 99% of the time the beer in the store is gonna be better than anything you could try to make in your bathtub. It would be the same way with weed.

Dude, where on Earth can you get an ounce for $120? I haven't heard of it being less than $300 in the least expensive markets.

[Stephen]

Dude, where on Earth can you get an ounce for $120? I haven't heard of it being less than $300 in the least expensive markets.



What's an ounce? what the hell is pot!?!?

[syphon2006]

It's alot cheaper in the south, prolly because it is easier to get than up north. However in my neck of the woods it's $150 an ounce. :D

[southpaw]

Originally Posted by sickness
Dude, where on Earth can you get an ounce for $120? I haven't heard of it being less than $300 in the least expensive markets.





We're not talking kind bud here. You can get regular for around $120 and it will get you where you are wanting to go, but if you are looking for kind bud or hydro you could pay that much for a dimebag. It's more expensive but it tastes better and you don't have to smoke as much as you would have to smoke regular or "dirt weed" to reach the obvious conclusion.

[Bill_the_Pony]

"dirt weed", also known as "shwag".

Word of the day. :)

[Stephen]

drugs are wrong!!!

[Intelligent_Design]

I didn't know there was different kind of Weed? I guess I shouldn't have spent my College years Smoking Opium.

[Stephen]

I didn't know there was different kind of Weed? I guess I shouldn't have spent my College years Smoking Opium.


haha

[Space Tycoon]

I guess I shouldn't have spent my College years Smoking Opium.
Well, so did Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Berlioz and countless others. You're in good company.

:smirks:




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[Intelligent_Design]

Well, so did Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Berlioz and countless others. You're in good company.

:smirks:




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Opium is highly underrated. :)