NSA has massive database on millions of Americans' phone calls

[Space Tycoon]

NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm)


By Leslie Cauley, USA TODAY
The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews....




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[Asonokirk V 2.0]

Sounds like a hideously tedious job, sifting through records like this trying to find terrorists. I wonder if they've considered it might be cheaper, less labor intensive, and certainly less like spying on our own citizens if we just let the terrorists have their little targets every once in a while. After all, it isn't like we won't bomb the F out of someone if terrorists strike.

I think some of our enemies are beginning to realize WE ARE CRAZY F's, and if you mess with us, we are just going to start blowing stuff up, and we don't care what. That tends to make the recepients of our population and standing structure reducing generosity a bit skittish about dealing with terrorist organizations, which hurts the terrorists in the long run. It is much less self defeating, and easier, for the terrorists to attack countries who aren't going to change large areas of countryside in the Middle East into 50,000 hole golf courses if attacked by them, and they get to make their "point," too.

But, no. Exactly BECAUSE we are crazy F's, our response to anything and everything is to just plumb forget the point of BEING AMERICA in the first place, out of a self induced sense of paranoia born from tunnel vision. At least a tunnel vision that each administration has passed on to the next because none of our so-called leaders (not just America's, but the world's) have had VISION and the COURAGE and the ITEGRITY, to start thinking outside of the standard old box, A box that has nothing left in it but bones, blood and dust, and is good only for storing the endless body counts reported from places scattered all over the earth.

I am just disgusted and sick and tired of the same old same old crap going on year after year in the world, as has been the norm my entire life. And it because we've all settled for leadership that is anything but. Hey, start paying attention to who it is you've trusted to lead you.

[kah]

Bring back the Libertarians!!!!!

What is a Libertarian? (http://www.lp.org/article_85.shtml)

[Minion]

Among the big telecommunications companies, only Qwest has refused to help the NSA, the sources said. According to multiple sources, Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants.
Qwest's refusal to participate has left the NSA with a hole in its database. Based in Denver, Qwest provides local phone service to 14 million customers in 14 states in the West and Northwest. But AT&T and Verizon also provide some services — primarily long-distance and wireless — to people who live in Qwest's region. Therefore, they can provide the NSA with at least some access in that area.

Granted, they screw the hell out of me when it comes to the cost of DSL and my phone bill but all I have to say is hell yes Qwest!

Minion: Can't believe he has a little pride for those money grubbing bastards now.

[tstone]

Bring back the Libertarians!!!!!

What is a Libertarian? (http://www.lp.org/article_85.shtml)


No, problem with that is Libertarians hold the government accountable, but completely stand back and let the corporates do all THEIR dumb, crazy sh*t.

If Libertarians held the corporates to the same level of distrust and scrutiny, then yeah.

[Intelligent_Design]

I think the Repubs are doing just fine. You don't change horses in mid-stream.

[tstone]

I think the Repubs are doing just fine. You don't change horses in mid-stream.


Ah, the smell of sarcasm in the morning...

[Cncrman]

I honestly think the govt. just needs a good hot dicking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuN_VWZt35g).

[Space Tycoon]

Bring back the Libertarians!!!!!

What is a Libertarian? (http://www.lp.org/article_85.shtml)


I'm with ya Kah!

Curious, what do you think of Texas Republican Congressman Ron Paul? He has run as a Libertarian and Republican over the years, and is generally considered "our guy" in Washington.

I've been asked to get involved with the Canadian Libertarians. Part of me thinks those two words are contradictory, part of me is intrigued.




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[Intelligent_Design]

Unlike liberals or conservatives, Libertarians advocate a high degree of both personal and economic liberty. What? What is "personal and economic liberty"?

For example, Libertarians agree with conservatives about freedom in economic matters, so we're in favor of lowering taxes, slashing bureaucratic regulation of business, and charitable -- rather than government -- welfare.

That would never fly in the real world. "Charitable welfare" That concept is laughable.

"slashing bureaucratic regulation of business" now that is a scary thought. Say good-bye to minimum wage, As we turn back the clock to the Guilded Age and Robber barons.

but without the exceptions and broken promises of Republican and Democratic politicians. Wow! Libertarians must be a greater breed of people that would never fall prey to the trappings of Power and corruption. Their leader must be Frodo Baggins.

That's why we call ourselves the Party of Principle. Hmmmm!! where have I heard that before?

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

What? What is "personal and economic liberty"?



That would never fly in the real world. "Charitable welfare" That concept is laughable.

"slashing bureaucratic regulation of business" now that is a scary thought. Say good-bye to minimum wage, As we turn back the clock to the Guilded Age and Robber barons.

Wow! Libertarians must be a greater breed of people that would never fall prey to the trappings of Power and corruption. Their leader must be Frodo Baggins.

Hmmmm!! where have I heard that before?

Maybe from every single graveyard on our planet?

[tstone]

Exactly. When people moan and bitch about onerous regulations, we are talking about rules of conduct. And the only reason they exists, is because conditions exist, or at least existed, which made them necessary. Now, if you can demonstrate how conditions have changed, maybe then that argument will make sense.

But as far as I can tell, power, corruption, and the tendency of people, especially the powerful, not to give a damn about the plight of others is still in full effect.

[Space Tycoon]

Shit man. I've got to get to work on that spaceship! Gotta get off this rock...

Telephone Records are just the Tip of NSA's Iceberg (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2006/05/telephone_records_are_just_the.html)




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[Bill_the_Pony]

Gee, I wonder if they monitor internet message boards, too? :eek: :)

~goes to look for middle finger pics....~

[Space Tycoon]

You bet your ass they do. They have a thick file on me, no doubt.

:ohwell:



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[Bill_the_Pony]

Oh, I'd better remove the naughty pics, especially the one that is captioned to Mr. Bush and what oral act he could perform on.....oh, dear. :(

Not that I'd want that dried up pie hole anywhere near me. :romy:

:lol:

[Space Tycoon]

Thanks for that mental picture... :eek:




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[Bill_the_Pony]

Here's a link! (http://www.sausage-n-stuff.com/Images/Copy%20of%20Hot_italian_link_picture_sm.jpg)

:)

[Space Tycoon]

Yecch.


Yet oddly fascinating...


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[tstone]

Can't wait to get that digicam to post that picture of my middle digit held up proudly, just for them.

Yeah, so what if I never make Sergeant Major of the Army. I'm an effing disc jockey, fer crissakes.

[Space Tycoon]

When you get back into civilian life you should grow your hair and be like Dr. Johnny Fever.


BOOGERRRR!!!


http://blueopossum.homestead.com/files/Johnny_Fever.jpg

[Intelligent_Design]

But as far as I can tell, power, corruption, and the tendency of people, especially the powerful, not to give a damn about the plight of others is still in full effect.


True dat. Its seems like with imminent domain laws ever widening it seems like big business wants to create some kind of Neo feudalism, with them controlling the land

[tstone]

When you get back into civilian life you should grow your hair and be like Dr. Johnny Fever.


BOOGERRRR!!!


http://blueopossum.homestead.com/files/Johnny_Fever.jpg


On my way already. Will soon be hosting a weekend Classic Rock show here on AFN Heidelberg, babieeeessss....

[tstone]

True dat. Its seems like with imminent domain laws ever widening it seems like big business wants to create some kind of Neo feudalism, with them controlling the land


Hell, that's your typical future depicted in most stories of your Cyberpunk genre.

[Bark]

You bet your ass they do. They have a thick file on me, no doubt.

:ohwell:



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The Lapdance of Infamy takes up a good 20 pages I bet. :lol:

[Space Tycoon]

Well, it was an international incident...




.

[kah]

Ok, let me really think about it.... I am for a party that is for individual rights, which means...

1. Gay marriage is legal.
2. Government doesn't bail out big business when it is in debt.
3. Smaller government means lower taxes, leaving more for me to give or spend as I choose.
4. Charity donation would be 100% deductible, which means that big business and richer folks would be more likely to donate.
5. Legalized drugs, which means less people in prison for minor drug offenses, and will lessen our need for new and larger prisons, since they will be strictly for people who commit crimes against another, and not the guy smoking dope in his basement.
6. No censorship.
7. No death tax/inheritance tax. Why should the government get to tax assets once someone dies, before it can be inherited by their heirs? The government has already taxed those assets at least once, if not many times.
8. No eminent domain.

I am not an anarchist, though. I still think the government should support public school systems, hire police and fire departments, protect the rights of animals, control pollution, and I am not for unrestricted free trade. I also don't believe in open borders. I am not against immigration, or punishing good samaritans who help illegals, but I am not in favor of them receiving any government funded aid. I also don't think we should get rid of the FDA. I think drug and food manufacturers should prove their goods are safe before they make money on them. However, most of these issues can be controlled at the state level, and paid for with state property taxes, state income taxes, and sales tax.

I don't see the 25% of our paychecks that go to the federal government doing what it should, which is make our society better. I should think, that with all the money the fed takes from us, that it shouldn't have been too terribly large a problem to help the Gulf Coast. Instead of the 100 billion dollars in damages being taken care of (which is a lot of money), we will probably end up spending 2 trillion (http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0110/dailyUpdate.html)in Iraq. We do not need to be fighting wars in other countries, and spending billions of dollars in aid to other countries, when we have homeless people here.

Our own people need help, but we can't afford to give as much as we'd like, because the government takes so much of our money, and except for the provision this past year for donations, you couldn't write off 100% of your charitable contributions. So let's say you wanted to be extremely generous, and donate 50% of your AGI, since you believe that giving is more important than having. You are still getting taxed on 20% of that, and if you are a business, 40%. The current tax system penalizes charity.

I don't believe in a society with no government, but I do believe ours is overgrown and mismanaged. We are giving the federal government 25% of our income to protect us from ourselves. Who is protecting us from the government?

[Space Tycoon]

I would say I agree with virtually all of the above.

There are still some good Republicans though. Dave Redick (http://www.redick2006.com/) is one. As is Ron Paul. (http://www.house.gov/paul/) I also like Chuck Hagel, (http://hagel.senate.gov/) and have a certain respect for John McCain. (http://mccain.senate.gov/)

I would also say that while these days I define myself as a conservative with strong libertarian influences, I would gladly vote Libertarian if I was an American and there were no such worthy contenders. In fact I would do so up here if the LP would get itself together. In spite of some reservations, mainly regarding environmental issues.

My belief is that any party gaining power inevitably has to make some compromises. If you do so from a position of perceived "extremism," you still get most of what you want, even if you have to make concessions. If you do so from a position of compromise, a la Bill Clinton, you end up accomplishing little and pleasing no-one.

Give me liberty or give me... well maybe not death exactly. :smirks:



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[Corporal_Hicks]

Ok, let me really think about it.... I am for a party that is for individual rights, which means...

1. Gay marriage is legal.
2. Government doesn't bail out big business when it is in debt.
3. Smaller government means lower taxes, leaving more for me to give or spend as I choose.
4. Charity donation would be 100% deductible, which means that big business and richer folks would be more likely to donate.
5. Legalized drugs, which means less people in prison for minor drug offenses, and will lessen our need for new and larger prisons, since they will be strictly for people who commit crimes against another, and not the guy smoking dope in his basement.
6. No censorship.
7. No death tax/inheritance tax. Why should the government get to tax assets once someone dies, before it can be inherited by their heirs? The government has already taxed those assets at least once, if not many times.
8. No eminent domain.

I am not an anarchist, though. I still think the government should support public school systems, hire police and fire departments, protect the rights of animals, control pollution, and I am not for unrestricted free trade. I also don't believe in open borders. I am not against immigration, or punishing good samaritans who help illegals, but I am not in favor of them receiving any government funded aid. I also don't think we should get rid of the FDA. I think drug and food manufacturers should prove their goods are safe before they make money on them. However, most of these issues can be controlled at the state level, and paid for with state property taxes, state income taxes, and sales tax.

I don't see the 25% of our paychecks that go to the federal government doing what it should, which is make our society better. I should think, that with all the money the fed takes from us, that it shouldn't have been too terribly large a problem to help the Gulf Coast. Instead of the 100 billion dollars in damages being taken care of (which is a lot of money), we will probably end up spending 2 trillion (http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0110/dailyUpdate.html)in Iraq. We do not need to be fighting wars in other countries, and spending billions of dollars in aid to other countries, when we have homeless people here.

Our own people need help, but we can't afford to give as much as we'd like, because the government takes so much of our money, and except for the provision this past year for donations, you couldn't write off 100% of your charitable contributions. So let's say you wanted to be extremely generous, and donate 50% of your AGI, since you believe that giving is more important than having. You are still getting taxed on 20% of that, and if you are a business, 40%. The current tax system penalizes charity.

I don't believe in a society with no government, but I do believe ours is overgrown and mismanaged. We are giving the federal government 25% of our income to protect us from ourselves. Who is protecting us from the government?

Well, then you certainly won't be able to vote for a Democrat.

[kah]

Well, then you certainly won't be able to vote for a Democrat.

:eek: Why would I want to do that??!?!?!?!

That's almost as bad as Sym calling me a socialist!

[tstone]

Let me see, FDR, JFK or Truman style Dem or Bush Repub.

You choose.

[kah]

Let me see, FDR, JFK or Truman style Dem or Bush Repub.

You choose.

How about just FDR? It's too bad we can't pick dead people to be our president.

On that note, well, sort of... I have to start a new thread.

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

How about just FDR? It's too bad we can't pick dead people to be our president.

On that note, well, sort of... I have to start a new thread.

I say we no longer allow people to pursue political office. Instead, we draft people we think would do good jobs, and like the military they then have to serve if voted into office. Personally, I'd rather have leaders who aren't actively seeking power and who end up in the leadership roles because enough people wanted them there.

Give me a Prez who is dragged kicking and screaming into office any day over someone who is lusting for it.

[kah]

I say we no longer allow people to pursue political office. Instead, we draft people we think would do good jobs, and like the military they then have to serve if voted into office. Personally, I'd rather have leaders who aren't actively seeking power and who end up in the leadership roles because enough people wanted them there.

Give me a Prez who is dragged kicking and screaming into office any day over someone who is lusting for it.

I agree. OMG! Did I just say that? Yes, yes I did.

[Intelligent_Design]

I say we no longer allow people to pursue political office. Instead, we draft people we think would do good jobs, and like the military they then have to serve if voted into office. Personally, I'd rather have leaders who aren't actively seeking power and who end up in the leadership roles because enough people wanted them there.

Give me a Prez who is dragged kicking and screaming into office any day over someone who is lusting for it.


I say we give up all our rights and power to one world government that would be based outta my apartment.

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

I say we give up all our rights and power to one world government that would be based outta my apartment.

I read a science fiction short story some years ago about elections in the future. Through a process of elimination, based on statistical analysis and algorithims used by computers, we will be able to filter everything down to one particular person's vote. How that person votes would determine who would win the election. So, the candidates go over to this guy's house and try to talk him into voting for them. Your comment reminded me of that story.

[Queen Mae]

I say we no longer allow people to pursue political office. Instead, we draft people we think would do good jobs, and like the military they then have to serve if voted into office. Personally, I'd rather have leaders who aren't actively seeking power and who end up in the leadership roles because enough people wanted them there.

Give me a Prez who is dragged kicking and screaming into office any day over someone who is lusting for it.


But then I worry that Oprah would become President.

[KingVoyeur]

I say we just have a lottery. Crapshoot is better than anything at this point I say.

[Space Tycoon]

Give me a Prez who is dragged kicking and screaming into office any day over someone who is lusting for it.

His name was Dwight D. Eisenhower, and he was the best of the postwar presidents.


Period.




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[Asonokirk V 2.0]

I say we just have a lottery. Crapshoot is better than anything at this point I say.

Excellent idea. Just put all registered voters names in hats, and draw them for each elected office. After doing that once, you can bet your momma and daddy will suddenly become real interested in, and more committed to, an effective government. Of course they'll learn the hard way, after the complete cluster-fuck that would develop from a government manned by people who, the day before taking their offices, were concerned only with who'll be the next "American Idol" and whether or not they want to supersize their order.

Nothing breeds a sense of responsibility like having your comfort zone torn from you like shoppers in a bargain hunting induced frenzy stripping their local strip mall clean of anything marked down during a post Christmas sale.