So I had a thought..

[kah]

Instead of keeping felons out of the military, how about we make military service mandatory as part of their sentence?

Seriously, think about it.

When a felon gets out of prison, especially if they've had a long sentence, they have no work history, and probably no skills to enter the workforce. They also rarely have a place to go home to, and often end up re-offending, sending their asses right back to prison.

If we put them in the military, obviously not in positions that would build off their crimes, then they would actually have a chance at being rehabilitated, and becoming contributing members of society. Let them earn a paycheck and learn an occupation while in service to the country.

Or am I completely off the wall here?

[Space Tycoon]

I honestly don't know if that would work or not. I'm leaning towards "not," because it seems to rest on the hope that military service acts as a sort of rehabilitation for these individuals. In fact, there are already a large number of urban gang members serving in the US military, most disturbingly in Iraq.

There is no evidence that they are better people for having served. There is every reason to believe that access to military hardware and urban guerilla combat experience may simply make them more effective thugs upon their return.

Talk about "earn while you learn." Over the next few years, expect a new intensification of urban warfare as hordes of battle-hardened, combat trained gang-bangers return to their old barrios and ghettoes.

Check out this May 1st article in the Chicago Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-gangs01.html) about this growing phenomenon:

The Gangster Disciples, Latin Kings and Vice Lords were born decades ago in Chicago's most violent neighborhoods. Now, their gang graffiti is showing up 6,400 miles away in one of the world's most dangerous neighborhoods -- Iraq.



On the other hand, there are no doubt many aimless, mixed-up kids in our prisons or just getting out, who could use some good old-fashioned discipline and hard work to make men out of them.


Especially if they have to deal with this guy:


http://www.orizzontikubrickiani.it/images/hartman.jpg

[Senormac]

I have to agree with you tycoon......I think the military should be made up of men and women who have some type of integrity and character. Its not a punishment to be in the service....is an honor.

[Space Tycoon]

How about reforming the prison system, so that it offers real punishment and real rehabilitation, instead of acting as a revolving door, which it all too often does?


Not to shoot kah's idea down completely. Perhaps there should be some entry program for ex-convicts who are guilty of non-violent offences.


.

[Bill_the_Pony]

Also, there is the potential for atrocities like the crimes being investigated in Iraq.

[tstone]

Off the wall. With experience in combat and support units, I don't want to depend on my tasks and my life being in the hands of some felon.

BUT...as a place to go AFTER they do their time, as a way to clear their record...maybe.




Instead of keeping felons out of the military, how about we make military service mandatory as part of their sentence?

Seriously, think about it.

When a felon gets out of prison, especially if they've had a long sentence, they have no work history, and probably no skills to enter the workforce. They also rarely have a place to go home to, and often end up re-offending, sending their asses right back to prison.

If we put them in the military, obviously not in positions that would build off their crimes, then they would actually have a chance at being rehabilitated, and becoming contributing members of society. Let them earn a paycheck and learn an occupation while in service to the country.

Or am I completely off the wall here?

[Bill_the_Pony]

How about reforming the prison system, so that it offers real punishment and real rehabilitation, instead of acting as a revolving door, which it all too often does?

.

Seriously. While I am acquainted with some who have been in and out of prison and have made something of their lives, without hurting others....I think the majority come out worse than when they went in.

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

Seriously. While I am acquainted with some who have been in and out of prison and have made something of their lives, without hurting others....I think the majority come out worse than when they went in.

There are many problems with everything being discussed in this thread. First of all, you can't lump people into some group called "felons." Each person in prison has a unique story, and each is there for a different reason. I know this because I have a felony conviction on my record, and I served time in prison for it. I saw the worst at L.A. County Jail and the state prison system, and there isn't some generalization I would apply to everyone incarcerated.

As for coming out of prison "worse," that is up to each individual. My experience was that the system gives everyone an opportunity to try and escape crime as a way of life. There are libraries, computers, and all sorts of help available. Those that take advantage of that come out of jail better than when they went in. Those that don't, just go back to their old ways.

Some inmates would make terrific soldiers, some wouldn't. Some in prison have more honor and integrity than some who aren't, yet some in prison aren't even trustworthy by their own mothers. Prison inmates are a representative sample of all of us, and to separate them from "us," in any way of thinking is not logical.

[Bill_the_Pony]

Same as law enforcement?

[kah]

I don't think I would send murderers or rapists, because personally I don't think they should ever get out of prison. A large sector of the prison population comes from poor, uneducated, single parent families, where the children grow up having no one home to discipline them, because the parents are out trying to support their kids. The gangs are raising these kids to become criminals. Maybe making it part of their sentence is a bit harsh, as military service should not be considered a punishment, since it is an honor. I do think, however, that they should be given the opportunity to better their lives by learning an occupation and serving their country. I wouldn't necessarily make them MPs or put them in any position of authority until they've worked for years to earn it. The military does, however, need translators, mechanics, medics, and other occupations that don't require automatic weapons that could be filled by these men and women.

I think the prison system is seriously flawed, but the real problem begins on the street, and in the lives of the people who end up there. If we could find some solutions to the juvenile offender problems, it would be a hell of a start.

[Intelligent_Design]

I think the prison system is seriously flawed, but the real problem begins on the street, and in the lives of the people who end up there. If we could find some solutions to the juvenile offender problems, it would be a hell of a start.
I think that active behavior modification is the way to go not rehabilitation. We need to crack open some B.F.Skinner books and put them into practice. rehabilitation is for persons with physical problems. Behavior mod. is for people with mental problems.

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

Same as law enforcement?

I believe you might be referring to something I said about law enforcement personnel some time back. Inmates are a more representative sample of the general population, in my opinion. Only because people choose to be police officers, whereas most felons don't choose to be that. That creates a more random database, I would think.

[Bokchoi Cowboy]

whereas most felons don't choose to be that. That creates a more random database, I would think.



That is crap and you know it. Felons choose to do what they do. Nobody is holding a gun to their head to make them decide to commit the act that is considered criminal or a felony. We all make choices that define who we are. It is an active thing. Becoming a felon just doesn't happen by magic on it's own. It is a choice. Therefore, no different than the choices of those who decide to become police officers. You can't say felons in jail/prison are representative of the biomass, just a one sampling of many groups. No "random dataset".

[Space Tycoon]

Also, there is the potential for atrocities like the crimes being investigated in Iraq.


Rape, murder, torture, theft... it's just another day at the office as far as these guys are concerned.




.

[RedKarma]

A high percentage of inmates have mental and/or drug problems, for which they get no treatment, before, during, or after they serve their sentances (at least that's the case in my state). None.

[Intelligent_Design]

A high percentage of inmates have mental and/or drug problems, for which they get no treatment, before, during, or after they serve their sentances (at least that's the case in my state). None.


Thats why Behavior Mod. is the way to go.

[RedKarma]

Sure, ANYTHING would be good. Even just plain ol' therapy would be a step in the right direction. But instead, they do nothing.

Except build more prisons.