The Maranatha Puzzle

[rch]

Decode the message and win a million pounds:-

http://www.maranatha-puzzle.com/

[rch]

The phrase “Et in Arcadia Ego” has also been, according to the “Priory documents”, on the official device and family crest of the house of Plantard since around the 13th century, when Jean de Plantard married Iodine de Gisors.

All three works - the two Et in Arcadia Egos and The Shepherds of Arcadia - contain the shared elements of a tomb, shepherds, and the phrase “Et in Arcadia Ego.”

Also, according to PoS myth, the phrase Et in Arcadia Ego was first used in a sermon in 1210 by Abbot Robert at Mont-St-Michel, one of the nine Prieure commandaries.

In truth, the phrase is actually just a common Memento Mori... the pranksters Plantard and de Cherisey adopted the phrase and the use of the Poussin painting into PoS myth because a local tomb in Les Pontils, near RLC, looked very similar to the one in the Poussin painting.

In fact, it's impossible that Poussin could have painted this tomb because it wasn't built until the 1930s as a grave for the owner's wife, mother, and two mummified cats...

[labbiel]

Thanks Rch,

logged into site.

[neophyte]

I'm Here.

[neophyte]

Here is the clue from Friday 13 October.
An appropriate/historical date if you were a Knight Templar.

13th October 2006

'Whether you began over a year ago or yesterday, it takes only a day to look and find the secret'

Ok, if it's that simple how come we haven't found it yet. Sounds as though we need to take a step back and look for the forest not the trees.:dunno:

Took me more than a day to decipher the code part.

[labbiel]

Hi All


So they are implying no need for research the facts are already in the book, we must be just overlooking the obvious. Would appear to have to be a break down of text into secret code, which once decoded if you have the key it would be easy so maybe the 12 x 13 grid is the important function, one of the clues mentions 4, 3, and 2

if you use Transposition ciphers - refer link below. Since there are 12 characters long a box of 4x3 would indicate the method, but would need to find the pattern or secret word they have used.

this site gives information on ciphers/codes.
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Sq83S6LDFs8J:www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/secret/secret.html+methods+used+to+decode+secret+codes&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2

[neophyte]

Hi All


So they are implying no need for research the facts are already in the book, we must be just overlooking the obvious. Would appear to have to be a break down of text into secret code, which once decoded if you have the key it would be easy so maybe the 12 x 13 grid is the important function, one of the clues mentions 4, 3, and 2

if you use Transposition ciphers - refer link below. Since there are 12 characters long a box of 4x3 would indicate the method, but would need to find the pattern or secret word they have used.

this site gives information on ciphers/codes.
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Sq83S6LDFs8J:www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/secret/secret.html+methods+used+to+decode+secret+codes&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2

Hi Labbiel,
For my thinking you are on the right track however we have 2 aspects of this puzzle.
1. The pictures.
These diagrams do appear to differ from other ones available on the net. Notsomuch in the way the figures and objects are displayed but that they contain additional items not found in the others - the chemical/planetary symbols for example.
2. The code.
Once deciphered we have a series of short explanations or stories within a 12 x 13 grid.

I believe we must somehow take the pictures and apply them to the text. A possible way is to copy the pictures and text onto transparancies and overlay them. But which picture over which text.
Just as one would overlay the answer sheet over a series of questions to see which answers are correct.
Anyway as it's 6am I had better get of to work.

[labbiel]

Hi neophyte,

I concur with your assumptions, expect finding the diagram to overlay is the hard part. you can come up with many assumptions, e.g. above, beside, below can refer to a chevron diagram (if you every watched stargate the symbols on the gate are a chevron diagram) = v and I'm positive the times staff on page 7 is one such line, its locating the other items. Also it could relate to the mason symbol v and v reversed overlaying which is similar to the x symbol which seems to relate to a lot of code references and is a cross symbol, but my main assumption is the picture graphics relate to a triangle shape and cronos staff on page 7 is the first key, especially as it is mentioned quite plainly in the text =" for in the arc of the staff of times scythe", also in old cipher text planets were used to express letter symbols. So many assumptions where to start, so to date I have gone back to the plain code systems referred on the web page to do with diagrammatic cipher.

How are your assumptions going?

[labbiel]

Hi

Found this reference to codes from15th century

Many variations of cipher appeared during the fifteenth century, most are diagrammatic cipher, in modern times these can easily be created by embedding the message in pictures, maps, photographs etc.. Hoewever these type encryption is very weak and can easily be solved.

Sounds familiar in the fact that it can be broken in a day evidently the Rosicrucian and Qabbalistic used this method

[rch]

Once deciphered we have a series of short explanations or stories within a 12 x 13 grid.

I believe we must somehow take the pictures and apply them to the text. A possible way is to copy the pictures and text onto transparancies and overlay them. But which picture over which text.

Thanks for bringing that wretched bouncing blue blob with you, Neo! :rolleyes:

We've gone full circle here... I think I said right at the beginning that we need to cross-reference the 12x13 grid with the drawings. But, we tried overlaying and didn't come up with anything useful.

It's GOT to be something simple, though... it HAS to be solveable with the information in front of us. It's a lot of fun to dig through all the layers of meaning, but I believe that this is a straightforward puzzle.

If we need a key word, then I would suggest that we use "Maranatha" as that's the most obvious...

[neophyte]

Thanks for bringing that wretched bouncing blue blob with you, Neo! :rolleyes:

.
Hi RCH,
Now that you mention it it is annoying. It's Gone .

[neophyte]

Thanks for bringing that wretched bouncing blue blob with you, Neo! :rolleyes:

We've gone full circle here... I think I said right at the beginning that we need to cross-reference the 12x13 grid with the drawings. But, we tried overlaying and didn't come up with anything useful.

It's GOT to be something simple, though... it HAS to be solveable with the information in front of us. It's a lot of fun to dig through all the layers of meaning, but I believe that this is a straightforward puzzle.

If we need a key word, then I would suggest that we use "Maranatha" as that's the most obvious...

As far as the overlaying bit goes. I looked at the pictures and tried to determine what was different between the ones in the book and the others available on the web.

The most obvious was the chemical/planet symbols. I traced the small circles onto some tracing paper and then overlayed them onto the coded text to see which if any came up with an identical match. Ie. Which letter in the code was precisly covered by a circle.

Wasn't working too well as each of the coded pages was slightly different in size to the pictures and the tracing paper was very slippery when overlaying it in the book.

It would probably work better if i photocopied each of the pages then recopied them onto Photocopier OHP sheets.

I suppose it's a bit like the Ivory Pipe in National Treasure. We've got all the bits just need to know where to stick em.

[labbiel]

HI All

I have play around with the word Maranatha, Holy Grail, Echo.

Normally if the grid is 12 across you would look at a square of 4 letters across and 3 letter down. 4x3 =12, for example if you took the work Echo the first letter of the sentance out the book would go under C as normally you start at A and allocate 1 and as no A appears in the word, the first letter of the alphabet being c is allocated 1 E=2 H=3 and O=4 so you line the letters starting with the first 3 letters in the sentence and place it under column 1, second 3 letters under column 2 etc. using this formula this would equate to numbered lines and words, but the key is finding the word.

here is how it would look as follows:

2 1 3 4 = where to place letters out of each line in the book until you
have 12 characters in the box e.g. first line reads:
"So did I echo th = sod idi ech oth placed going down
E C H O = secret word

I S E O These letters = 12 characters first line
D O C T
I D H H

normally you just read across the text and it makes sense, so unless they have taken the table as 13 x12 = 156 = 12, which could go back to when I used all the characters in the text originally and came up with a word which maybe could represent the secret word, but this did not fit in with any of the picture graphics at the time. I'm just thinking out loud as I writing this. Duncan did mention the text was the most important aspect of the puzzle, which means its great researching all the information we have to date, but maybe it is a simple code cracking technique. I remember reading somewhere that in the 15th century they used symbols of hid the key to the secret word, each symbol represent a letter. I noticed in the text certain reference continually to mercury, son (sun), earth, Zeus(Jupiter), so maybe these points of reference are what we need to concentrate on to form a diagram? I'm still thinking out loud.

Would love to hear everyone elses thoughts.

[rch]

Hi RCH,
Now that you mention it it is annoying. It's Gone .

Aww, I didn't mean you had to KILL it! He just drives me mad, jumping up and down on the screen as I'm trying to compose my replies... I'm still getting used to the new messageboard software, it's much more sophisticated than our old one.

Look, he's followed me back... :jump2:

[hawklord]

:jump: :jump:

They're breeding!

[stephanieruth]

Hello everyone, I have been 'lurking' for some time. Sorry no fancy icon next to my name. I am unused to participating in forums. Has anyone thought of the way a Knight moves on a chessboard? I seem to remember a chessboard figures in one of the churches. The trick would be knowing where to start, any ideas?

[diesel]

Labbiel,

Unfortunately I typed up a nice long reply to your last post and was told I wasn't logged in and it was therefore deleted. So instead of trying to remember everything I'll just summarize:

For a while I was convinced that there was an additional layer of code to crack. I put the text into a spreadsheet and ran every type of cipher I could think of and find to try and find something. Nothing worked. About the only thing that made any sense was the "caduceus" that Apple and others created. However there was no indication of what order to put the "wheels" so that didn't really work either - there were just too many different combinations to make it worth trying.

So now I am convinced that there is no code (get it, like pj). All of the clues state that the answer is in front of us and that no outside knowledge is needed. We may all be making this thing more difficult than necessary. For some reason it is in our nature to think things are more complex than they really are. It is also very difficult to forget everything you know (or think you know). How does an illusionist mystify their audiences? Create a distraction - maybe that is all the encoded text is...?

-diesel

[labbiel]

Hi All

I think you may be right diesel, they appear to be so many chipers for example came across a knight templar cipher the other day

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:PivXKaKgRHQJ:www.borderschess.org/Ciphers.htm+rosicrucian+cipher&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2

take a particular look at this cipher it relates to symbols
http://www.borderschess.org/Cipher%20Fonts.htm

this was interesting just for the history of the knight templars
http://theunjustmedia.com/Freemasons/the%20dark%20history%20of%20the%20templars.htm

[rch]

Just to make our lives more interesting, Royston Cave has popped up again:-

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/features/2006/10/17/f17b4693-11c5-499b-a81e-180757390699.lpf

:jump2:

[labbiel]

Hi All,

Received this today,

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright heres what we got from interview 2 discounting the NO COMMENTS

Key hidden in 4 images= pages 7,8,9,10 all having 9 symbols
Pages 27,13,41 all have SERPENTS with 10,11,12 symbols respectively.
Key is Geometric req use of rulers,square and Compass (Freemasons Tools)
No great accuracy required
4 smaller constuctions to be "Solidified" into "ONE" Pages 7,8,9,10 must have a piece of the key each.

One need not have decoded the text in order to form the key ,however this would be more on the part of LUCK

With Reforging Key will dork on KJV bible Is The secret hidden here too
Recomended reading by Duncan "The Bible" WHICH ONE
_________________
LastofthefewAnunnaki
"Anunnaki- Who From Heaven to Earth Came"
CHRISTUS A.O.M.P.S. DEFENDIT

[labbiel]

Hi
This is what I was working on last night in relation to codes, and now with the information from lastofafew, I hope to make something of it.

I was looking at the text last night thinking what code the secret (key) word be, If you look at a lot a 15th Century codes symbols were used to replace letters, so the information Duncan was giving may relate to this, especially when I went to bed last night I was working a a 3 letter word which is mentioned at least 3 times in the commentry of the book and would require 9 separate symbols to link it, so tonight I will try and work with the 3 words to see what symbols relate.. When I Started looking at different words I came up with the first couple of lines of the text reading: Hid This Code of the Jews, but as I was unable to have exactly the symbolism related to the 3 letter word couldn't relate first sentence to fully to next sentence as there were 2 'D's", 2 O's, 2 I's and 2 H's, so I need to relate the symbols to the 3 letter word, from what you inform me of Duncan's comments to do with the 9 planets I may now be able to fit it in to the text, the 3 letter word I came up with is know as a key in ancient text relating to alchemy.

I will let you know what I come up with.

[neophyte]

Hi All,

Received this today,

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright heres what we got from interview 2 discounting the NO COMMENTS

Key hidden in 4 images= pages 7,8,9,10 all having 9 symbols
Pages 27,13,41 all have SERPENTS with 10,11,12 symbols respectively.
Key is Geometric req use of rulers,square and Compass (Freemasons Tools)
No great accuracy required
4 smaller constuctions to be "Solidified" into "ONE" Pages 7,8,9,10 must have a piece of the key each.

One need not have decoded the text in order to form the key ,however this would be more on the part of LUCK

With Reforging Key will dork on KJV bible Is The secret hidden here too
Recomended reading by Duncan "The Bible" WHICH ONE
_________________
LastofthefewAnunnaki
"Anunnaki- Who From Heaven to Earth Came"
CHRISTUS A.O.M.P.S. DEFENDIT

I checked out that interview script and whilst the above isn't wrong I thought I would submit the details as they were posted for everyone to make their own mind up.I have shortened the Q's a bit
Q Key is geometric in shape.
A Yes - In Essence

Q Can it be made onn various images.
A Yes- Be careful on what images u r trying to use it.

Q Does 4 Scenes refer to images 1 - 4
A Yes and the last 3 contain serpents

Q Is a rule reqd
A To Measure - No.
Q Square, compass or addit tools
A Would help

Q are mis-allignments of roman numerals on index page deliberate.
A Yes

Q Is construction statrted by defining planets centre points.
A Cannot Comment

Q do planets play a part in the construction
A Cannot comment

The words KEY and GRAIL have been interchanged. The words on bak of book used to indicate 2 things.
1 is the almnost tradit expectation of the Grail.
The key is the secret that protects the Grail.

Q does the AXE figute play a part in the Construction.
A Sorry No comment

Q Re Athanasisus - The saint or Both.
A Not Kirchner

Q is there more than 1 way to find key
A Yes - Many but only 1 way to win.

Q re Evidence/ Proof
A Factual Evidence that Poussin possessed the key and that evidence has been seen.
A Factual evidence DA Vinci possed key
A yes but it will be controversially reviewed.

Evidence is too strong in Poussins' case - History will be rewritten
If evidence was given a WOW factor GIVE IT A BIG BIG WOW

About 5 of the web hints refer to the construction.

Timeline does hold some aid direction for solving puzzle.

There were some Oh YYYYYYEEEEEEEEESSSSSS 's input by Duncan when referring to the key and evidence so it would appear to be very convincing/ explosive in nature.

[neophyte]

As far as the overlaying bit goes. I looked at the pictures and tried to determine what was different between the ones in the book and the others available on the web.

The most obvious was the chemical/planet symbols. I traced the small circles onto some tracing paper and then overlayed them onto the coded text to see which if any came up with an identical match. Ie. Which letter in the code was precisly covered by a circle.

Wasn't working too well as each of the coded pages was slightly different in size to the pictures and the tracing paper was very slippery when overlaying it in the book.

It would probably work better if i photocopied each of the pages then recopied them onto Photocopier OHP sheets.

I suppose it's a bit like the Ivory Pipe in National Treasure. We've got all the bits just need to know where to stick em.

OOOHH YEAH
Referring to the comments from the 2nd interview - boy I may be on the right track here. :headscratch:

[jlockest]

It seems that the Companion Book has been launched - so I guess that the reason why the list has gone quiet is that you're all too busy working on it!

[neophyte]

It seems that the Companion Book has been launched - so I guess that the reason why the list has gone quiet is that you're all too busy working on it!

Hold on let me give that some thought --- Uh No. I checked on Saturday Morning but it's not out yet. Suppliers are awaiting stock.
The reason for the pause in postings is probable the info released in that second interview transcipt.

see previous postings.

Good Luck:D

[jlockest]

OK - but I ordered the book directly via the link from the Maranatha site yesterday.
Hopefully it will be here this week. I also checked Waterstones online store here in the UK and they have the book as being launched on the 20th October.

[jlockest]

The Companion arrived this morning - so here starts the next set of headaches.......

[rch]

The Companion arrived this morning - so here starts the next set of headaches.......

Thanks for the tip-off... I don't like buying off the internet, so I'll pop into Waterstone's or Borders next time I'm on Oxford Street.

BTW, sorry I didn't get back to your Royston stuff - I got diverted by our migration. Did you see the news story I posted? The guy identified the heart in the hand as a symbol for "charity". Somehow I think it's more complicated than that...

[jlockest]

Thanks for the tip-off... I don't like buying off the internet, so I'll pop into Waterstone's or Borders next time I'm on Oxford Street.

BTW, sorry I didn't get back to your Royston stuff - I got diverted by our migration. Did you see the news story I posted? The guy identified the heart in the hand as a symbol for "charity". Somehow I think it's more complicated than that...

I got the companion from the Jolyon link - ordered on the Sunday and it arrived on the Tuesday (I could have gone to Waterstones, but I thought it better to give all the money to the team - mainly so they can give it all back when I win the prize ;-)).
The companion is interesting in as much as it gives the 'words and phrases' that were deemed significant and then explains their mtyhical/historical relevance (not sure relevance is the correct word there). I haven't read all of it yet, but at least it looks like I had 90% of the historical references right - the problem is that I still don't see their 'true' significance apart from alluding to a view that the artifacts in the book actually existed and that maybe even re-incarnation is a reality. So odd how all this seems to dove tail in with the Emerald Tablets.

As for Royston - the man using a 'sign of distress' and the similar character in the Guercino drawing of the raising of the Master are also associated.

Still haven't a clue - but it's early days yet....only a year in - it took Flamel a year for each page......I think I need to go to the East in search of a master....

[Mandlebrot]

I've tried and tried to order the companion via the link but keep getting timed out. Anyone else have similar problems ?

[diesel]

I've tried and tried to order the companion via the link but keep getting timed out. Anyone else have similar problems ?
I had the same problems. Try using a different browser: Firefox worked without any problems.

[crackthecode]

The Maranatha store is not compatible with Internet Explorer.

Try using Firefox.

It is a free browser and is better than Internet Explorer.

[RoystonCave]

Hi, just thought i'd introduce myself - i'm a tour guide at Royston Cave. The original book and the companion make it clear that Royston and the cave are important in some way and so if anyone wants to ask me any questions feel free. I've been studying the Maranatha for about six months now and it's clear from this forum and the previous one I have got nowhere near as far as some of you - but I could be of some help.

I'm currently scouring through the companion but here are 2 thoughts:

When I checked the postcode my companion book was sent from it turned out it was a rural area only around 15 miles from Royston, (where I live and of course the cave is situated) and close to the area there is a village with road names such as St. John's, Abbots and Priory. Probably not anything but could be - especially due to the proximity to Royston.

I believe as rch said a few posts back - it has got to be something quite simple - the knopwledge you gain must is a bonus - a very good one at that! - but is probably not neccessary to work out the key and win the prize. I also think due to appendix 2 of the companion book that it is definately something along the lines that u've already been following of the 13 x 12 grid with super imposed pictures etc etc. I also found it very interesting that they give us more info on the origins and uses of the pigpen in Appendix 1 - could there be anything in this?

P.S Just a bit more about myself - i'm currently studying History and Archaeology at the University of Southampton.

[crackthecode]

RoystonCave,

That is very interesting info. If I am not mistaken, Duncan said once before that the reason they named the Company Priory Publications was because 'Priory' was the name of the road where the team used to meet.

[rch]

Yes, Duncan also told me that Priory was the name of the road where they used to meet. And I also know that someone involved in the company DOES live nearby...

But your appearance is indeed an interesting development, Roy... I keep meaning to jump on a train and come out there and have a look around, so I'll let you know if I do.

One little detail that intrigues me about Royston is that the town centre is just off the Greenwich Meridian... and I just can't get this idea of a coordinate point and "crosses" out of my head.

How close is Royston Cave from the crossing of Ermine and Icknield? They say that a cross called Roisia's Cross was erected there... is the cave near there?

But, an earlier reference for this cross was Crux Roys, which means Kings Cross... it was on the site of land owned by a Priory but, before that, Ermine and Icknield were said to be "royal roads" built by the ancient King Belinus.

Furthermore, according to the book The Sun and the Serpent, Royston Cave is said to be located on a "node" where the Michael and Mary energy lines cross. This would mean that, as some point nearby, the Michael line would also cross the Greenwich Meridian.

So, now I'm wondering... are we supposed to be looking for some kind of MAP here?

[RoystonCave]

The cave is positioned exactly under the Icknield way at about 10 - 15 metres from the stone, and more importantly the cross of Icknield way and Ermine Street. The stone is now positioned right on the cross of the roads (as half is pedestrianised as Royston High Street). I'm not entirely sure where the stone would have been originally - but I can find out.

As for the Michael and Mary lines - they both run directly through the cave - we've had a lots of visitors this year with dowsing rods etc. It's hard to say exactly where the lines cross the GM because I cant find a reliable, detailed enough map of them.

I also can't help thinking the Royston Priory might be implicated some how (although i'm in danger of focusing too much on Royston here and forgetting the rest of the puzzle!) - here are two articles for background though:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=37966

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royston,_Hertfordshire

One more thing - I found out about the Maranatha through a groups of guys who were apparently working on it and came to visit the cave soon after it opened at Easter. They told me of a story of 2 African (i think they were african) tribes who visited Royston (since the invention of trains) and proformed a ritual inside or near to the cave - has any1 else heard this? or is it a red herring? These guys also happened to think Royston priory played a part.

Last but not least - one of the carvings within the cave is a square with a cross in the middle, like the microsoft windows sign, - we don't know what this is but I thought it could be an alteration of an alchemic symbol ie. the one for lead. Any ideas? It's also within about 50cm of a seemingly random carving of a sun.

[Pendragon445]

It took almost 5 days for the activation email to arrive, so this probably isn't relevant any longer, but I'll throw it out there for discussion anyway..

I was looking into ciphers last week and came across the Bacon cipher. It reminded me of the type of code used in the Rennes documents.

Has anyone come up with new ideas on the spacing and type differances in the pigpen? I've gone through several ideas on it, but nothing that sticks yet.

[rch]

The cave is positioned exactly under the Icknield way at about 10 - 15 metres from the stone, and more importantly the cross of Icknield way and Ermine Street. The stone is now positioned right on the cross of the roads (as half is pedestrianised as Royston High Street). I'm not entirely sure where the stone would have been originally - but I can find out.

Hmmm, see if you can find out. I get the impression from some of the webpages that long ago a hole was gouged into the stone to hold a cross, as well. Was it really a King Belinus who created the "royal" road system? Bel means sun...

As for the Michael and Mary lines - they both run directly through the cave - we've had a lots of visitors this year with dowsing rods etc. It's hard to say exactly where the lines cross the GM because I cant find a reliable, detailed enough map of them.

Interesting that this legend has percolated into the area. It looks like there are a lot of Mary churches around there.

I can't find a suitable map either. On the other hand, the Greenwich Meridian wouldn't have existed back when all this was built.

I notice that there is a town called Hilton north of there, though... Hilton is part of my surname - I wonder if I should instigate a rumour that my Bloodline is part of the Solution and see if we can get people to flock there?

I also can't help thinking the Royston Priory might be implicated some how (although i'm in danger of focusing too much on Royston here and forgetting the rest of the puzzle!)

Well, Royston Cave IS a fairly significant aspect to the clues... also, members of the team coincidentally live nearby.

Plus, there's a very interesting neo-Templar group based in Hertfordshire, notice that one of their "preceptories" is in Royston, might be worth sniffing around:-

http://www.ktherts.com/

I wonder if Duncan is friendly with them?

One more thing - I found out about the Maranatha through a groups of guys who were apparently working on it and came to visit the cave soon after it opened at Easter. They told me of a story of 2 African (i think they were african) tribes who visited Royston (since the invention of trains) and proformed a ritual inside or near to the cave - has any1 else heard this? or is it a red herring?

Hmm, you got me there. Unless this could be related to the legend that the Ark of the Covenant is in Ethiopia...

Last but not least - one of the carvings within the cave is a square with a cross in the middle, like the microsoft windows sign, - we don't know what this is but I thought it could be an alteration of an alchemic symbol ie. the one for lead. Any ideas? It's also within about 50cm of a seemingly random carving of a sun.

Symbol of Saint George (also noted in the Clues)? Also, the equal armed cross is sometimes regarded as a solar symbol, symbolising the solstices and the equinoxes... as well as a Templar symbol.

Do you know what the carving of the heart in the hand means? The heart is often associated with Robert the Bruce... it's part of the Clan Douglas arms, but I've never seen it in a hand before.

[jlockest]

I had gone down this route - take a look at:
http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/articles/josanc.html

and
http://www.britannia.com/celtic/gods/beli.html

....an interesting bit is also at the end of this link...

http://www.cabiz.net/heartlink/joseph_of_arimathea.htm

I also read somewhere (and can't find the link again)...that when Joseph came to Britain after the crucifixion (with the Magdalene) they landed in France. When Joseph continued on with the trip he was told that the 'Britons' were already versed in the religion. Implying that religion of Christ wasn't the Christianity that has been promoted since his 'death'.
Maybe the implied resurrection/rebirth of certain 'important' avatars in history extends to Christ and what he was promoting was an extension of a much earlier religion? (Maybe religion had been corrupted by then and had to be 'renewed' (- and corrupted again?))

[neophyte]

Last but not least - one of the carvings within the cave is a square with a cross in the middle, like the microsoft windows sign, - we don't know what this is but I thought it could be an alteration of an alchemic symbol ie. the one for lead. Any ideas? It's also within about 50cm of a seemingly random carving of a sun.

Curiouser and curiouser.
Seeing that Flamel was noted for his alchemal prowess and the " Book of Abraham the Jew " is primarily the textbook which he used to achieve the Philosophers Stone or the transmutaion of base metals it seems appropriate that the symbol you mention could represent lead. As for the Sun, well I'm not sure. Are there any other symbols in close proximity which could represent a pattern or possibly a sequence.:headscratch:

[rch]

Ah, but there's yet another intriguing layer which ties into this on another level - there in another Saint Michael Line, similar to the one in the UK that runs through Royston, but one that runs through Europe at a bearing of roughly 60 degrees NW-SE. It intersects with the UK Michael Line at Saint Michael's Mount in Cornwall. You can see the sites here:-

http://www.lundyisleofavalon.co.uk/places/stmiklyn/stmiklyn1.htm

The European Michael Line terminates at Mount Carmel. Mount Carmel was the location of Elijah's Cave, where he defeated the BAAL priesthood as related in 1 Kings 18.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah

The European Saint Michael's Line intersects with the old Paris Zero Meridian (which predates the current Greenwich Meridian) at Bourges, which also has an extremely intriguing history...

[rch]

Just to let all of you know that tomorrow (Halloween) the Cinescape site is going to move to its upgraded incarnation at mania.com

I think that diverts will automatically take us there... at the moment we can reach these forums via the Forum link on the Mania site, but I expect that the url will probably change at some point, so look out for this if you bookmark this forum.

Once this site morphs, then our forum at Phenomena should go dormant for an undisclosed amount of time, so we'll pretty much lose everything that's there.

I'll keep everyone updated.

[RoystonCave]

Originally posted by rch,
Do you know what the carving of the heart in the hand means? The heart is often associated with Robert the Bruce... it's part of the Clan Douglas arms, but I've never seen it in a hand before

At the cave we have two possible explainations for the hands with the hearts in the palms:

1: An unknown templar symbol which the freemasons adopted as the symbol for charity.

2: Something along the lines of a practice they have in techniques such as yoga (i've forgotten the exact names of the ones now) in which you lay your hands on someone to heal them - healing hands - all the symbols of hands with hearts in the palms in the cave are next to a crucifiction carving. - so this could be the meaning in this case.

Originally posted by Neophyte
As for the Sun, well I'm not sure. Are there any other symbols in close proximity which could represent a pattern or possibly a sequence.

No not really - the cross in square, sun, head of baphomet, templar cross and equilateral triangle are all on the second level of the cave spread almost randomly (on the east side) - these are set above the other carvings and are different to all the others as they have been carved inward and not as deep as the rest - so for that reason we call it 'templar grafitti'.

[neophyte]

[QUOTE=
Something along the lines of a practice they have in techniques such as yoga (i've forgotten the exact names of the ones now) in which you lay your hands on someone to heal them - healing hands - all the symbols of hands with hearts in the palms in the cave are next to a crucifiction carving. - so this could be the meaning in this case.

I wonder if this has an association with a Christian practice called " Laying on of Hands" often used in the pentecostal or non mainstream Christian systems Ie, those other than Catholic,Anglican, Methodist ect. not that these systems don't also carry out the practice. Seems like the well known American evangelists such as Bakker etc spring to mind.
Also doesn't "to carry ones heart in your hand" refer to compassion.


No not really - the cross in square, sun, head of baphomet, templar cross and equilateral triangle are all on the second level of the cave spread almost randomly (on the east side) - these are set above the other carvings and are different to all the others as they have been carved inward and not as deep as the rest - so for that reason we call it 'templar grafitti'.[/QUOTE]

Pity about that however it is interesting that
1. The sun is higher up and in the East. Just as the light of day comes from the east many believe that so too comes enlightenment. Masons are heading West to East
2. There is an equalateral triangle - with the point up it could be male or down it could be female. Joined together we have the unison of M and F forming the Star of David / pentagram etc.

[rch]

At the cave we have two possible explainations for the hands with the hearts in the palms:

1: An unknoG\0\05{\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0which the freemasons adopted as the symbol for charity.

2: Something along the lines of a practice they have in techniques such as yoga (i've forgotten the exact names of the ones now) in which you lay your hands on someone to heal them - healing hands - all the symbols of hands with hearts in the palms in the cave are next to a crucifiction carving. - so this could be the meaning in this case.

Hmmm, interesting. There is a Sufi symbol, a Winged Heart, that illustrates the diffusion of a kind of loving consciousness... maybe this is similar, but more direct? I guess I'd have to see it in context.

Ironically, Clan Douglas later adopted the Winged Heart to symbolise their attempt to transport Robert the Bruce's heart to the Holy Land...

[RoystonCave]

Has everybody given up on the Maranatha?

[jlockest]

Still here...still trying...still no closer

[neophyte]

:headscratch: Has everybody given up on the Maranatha?

Greetings,
Yes it has been a bit quiet lately.
Received my Companion Book and have just finished reading through it.
I must say when I started this journey I put the decoded text into a word Doc and PDF Doc.
From there I inserted comments relating to the various points which I felt were of importance or were pertinent to finding the solution to the puzzle Ie. Cut and pasted various material from websites etc which described the item in question.
From reading the companion i found that many were already covered by my cut and pasting process and the info from the book was just a re-affirmation or additional to what I already had.
From that perspective I was slightly disappointed. At first review there wasn't too much which stood out and provided me direction. Maybe another read is necessary.

I am still struggling with the comments from the Dialogue from 13/10 and have had no success in that area.
Keep on working.

[rch]

I was wondering what had happened to you guys... I thought you might have got lost in the last migration.

Sometimes Real Life just gets in the way... if we didn't have to survive, we probably would have cracked this months ago!

[labbiel]

Hi All,

Had a quick scan of the companion book today, found it very interesting, especially regarding the name of the nymph that raised zeus ADAMANTHEA this could be changed to spell Adam - Athena also the word encompasses the letters maranatha except for the letter R.

Checking the text that relates to the key, hopefully may find something.

[jlockest]

Did anyone in the UK see the Antiques Roadshow last night and notice the 'Indian' (from Gandhar)carving of an Atlantean figure and its similarity to the Asmodeus 'stoop' in the church at RLC?

[labbiel]

Hi all,

I have noticed some interesting references in the companion book, while I was waiting for the second book I have been constructing a time line and noticed quite alot of similarities with information in the companion book to the time line listed below:-

Would appear to be continued reference to two triangles p72 shield of David and p74 a golden relic (artefact) Enoch two interlocking triangles and last page referring to Plato TImaeus which relates to platonic solids, and it is noted that the neolithic people of Scotland constructed stone models of all five solids as least 1000 years before Plato and these models are kept at the Ashmolean Museum inOxford, so it is interesting to note that on p142 author mentions that Isaac Newton was convinced that the divine design of the building held the secrets of creation he built a model of the temple which can be seen at Ashmolean Museum in Oxford England (now the author makes mention of this museum in the book on p 142) also and author had made mention that 1000 pass the artefact daily so maybe this museum relates to that relic?

TIME LINE


16TH Century: - Bacon Family were said to be able to trace their ancestry to the Lords of Molay, Jaques de Molay (John of Molay), the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar.

Cosimo de Medici founded the Platonic Academy in Florence.

1399bc: - Hermes Trismegistus, helped Akhnaton to transpose the Sacred teaching into hieroglyphics in order to protect them from priests. He wrote seven books and tablets which were discovered in 400ad. Wrote Emerald Tablet or Philosopher stone.

1561-1626: - Francis Bacon, adopted by Anne and Nicholas Bacon. It is said he wrote under the name Shakespeare – the Shaker of the spear – truth. Francis and many of their circle were members of what was known as the Dragon Society who worshipped the earth’s sacred energy sometimes called SERPENT ENERGY. In Europe the Ley lines were given a French name which translates into Roses of the Wind.


1743-1820: - Sir Joseph Banks was privy to ancient maps handed down from the time of Sir John Dee “Terra Australis”. In 1778 Joseph elected president of the Royal Society of London, which was founded by Sir Francis Bacon and was an offshoot of the Rosicrucian Society. He was president for 50 years, thus a prominent Freemason, this position was thought to equate to Grand Master.
Sir Joseph Banks accompanied Captain Mangles of the Royal Navy to the tomb of AARON when the lost city of PETRA was discovered in the 18th Century, he evidently later visited many Scottish Islands, including the Island of IONA, also known as the Island of the Druids, Island of the Dove and The Island of the Masons.

1527-1608AD – Sir John Dee – known as the Magus – assisted Francis Bacon in the founding of Rosicrucian and Freemason lodges, during this era he was a Grand Master of the Order of the Rose Cross.

1452-1519AD –Leonardo Da Vinci- During his last few years certain authorities have ascribed to him an ancient heretical belief that Jesus had a twin.

1243-1314AD Jacques(John) De (Of) Molay – Join Knights Templar at age of 21, elected Grand Master of Templars in 1292, authors of Hiram Key assert that the Shroud of Turin was actually the one in which Jacques body was laid after he was tortured in the same manner as Jesus

1214-1294 Roger Bacon – Master Rosicrucian

1143-1214Ad William the Lion, King of Scotland – William’s great-grandmother was ST Margaret who first introduced the cult of ST Andrew to Scotland, the emblem being the Saltire, ‘X’ , like his grandfather, Kind David 1 of Scots, William supported the Order of the Cistercians founded by ST. Bernard of Clairvaux who were linked with the Order of the Knights Templar. In 1128 King David met Hugues De Payen (First Grand Master of the Knights Templars). And granted land in Scotland to the Order of the Cistercians which had become integrated with the Celtic Church. King Richard the Lion heart was a member of the Knights Templar and introduced ST. George as the patron Saint of England and the emblem ROSE (Red) Cross.

1144-1200Ad – St Hugh of Lincoln- Became a monk to the Order of the Carthusians – strong links to the Cathars (Also known as the Albigensians named after the French town of Albi (White) – the name of which is also equated with Alba/Albany which Scotland was originally called. The Cathars were known by religion to be Johannites who followed the teaching of John the Beloved his symbol is an Eagle.

1080 -1153 – St Bernard of Clairvaux – Founded the Cistercian movement at Citeaux, he was patron of the Knights Templar, it is thought that ST. Bernard introduced Hugues De Payen to King David of Scotland.

1070-1131Ad – Hugues De Payen – First Grand Master of the Knights Templars – originally consisted of 9 knights, who called themselves the Order of the Poor Knights of Christ, said to have gathered treasures and placed them in a secret place, some say this place was the Cathar region of Rennes Le Chateau in French and others say the they are buried beneath Rosslyn Chapel Scotland.
Hugh married Catherine St. Clair whose family donated the land at Rosslyn where chapel built.

Circa 386 – 461 - ST. PATRICK – Introduced the Cross within the circle, which symbolically is known as the Rose of the Wind. In England, these sacred energies are known as the Mary/Michael ley lines. In Australia they are called the Rainbow Serpent. The English translation of the Ley Lines in Gaul = Roses of the Wind. He was believed to have been an abbot at the Glastonbury church, founded by St Joseph of Arimathea.

Circa 378-446 ST Germanus – Bishop of Auxerre in Gaul (France), teacher of St. Patrick his teaching were of the Celtic Church, beliefs John the Beloved (Druidic).

342-420Ad St Jerome – discovered some of the lost documents of the Essenes and translated them.

280-304Ad – St George – His close friend was Constantine the Great who gave instructions for the Rose of Sharon to be planted on ST George’s Tomb.

1st Century Ad Apollonius of Tyana – he was an Essene and belonged to the Order of the Rose Cross, the Essene were Rosicrucians.

BC-AD – St Joseph – Father of Jesus – Joseph was called “Zebedee” the Fisherman” his sons belong the lineage of House of Levi – Zadok, according to Rosicrucian authority, Spencer Lewis, the Essenes were Rosicrucians, (Order of the Rose Cross). Their ancient teaching had come down from the temples in Egypt, it is recorded in ancient texts that Jesus and John the Baptist undertook initiations in the Temples of the Great White Brotherhood and in the great Pyramid in Egypt.

1st Century – ST John the Beloved – John and James known as the Boanerges – an Aramaic term meaning the ‘Sons of Thunder’. According to Peter Dawkins, the term refers they were Essene initiates who had been baptised into the Greater Mysteries, became known as “Ar-Thors”

384-322Bc Aristotle – wrote the existence of Terra Australis incognita ‘the unknown southern land’

1378-1350BC – Pharaoh Akhanton (Amenhotep IV) – according to Spencer Lewis, Akhnaton was first to introduce the symbol of the Rose and the Cross (the Rosicrucians) with Hermes invent hieroglyphics and managed to hide the secret Arkana (Arcana),

1378-1350Bc- Pharaoh Tutmoses 111 – established temple which he called the Botanical Garden”

Noah – according to Peter Dawkins the name Noah represents IOA, the word wisdom Jihovah scared name

Circa 30,000Bc Colonisation of Asia and Australia by the inhabitants of Lemuria.

[labbiel]

Hi, Noticed this also
Newton found all the descriptions, and from the descriptions in different languages he constructed a floor plan of what the temple would have looked like. And he believed that the layout of the temple was a code, another form of code, in the way it was designed.

he believed that Solomon was tapping into some sort of secret knowledge, in direct communication perhaps with God, to know what the future of man would be, and had designed his temple to reflect the possible future of humanity." The design is said to be held at Ashmolean Museum Oxford. The author in the book has given us the dimension of the Temple

[RoystonCave]

Hey all, by the sounds of it business is picking up again!

Been doing some archaeology research today and picked up on 3 things that could be potentially useful:

1. William Stukeley, a prominent antiquitarian of the 18th century and friend of Isaac Newton, studied the writings of Hermes Trismegistus and at one point was believed to be deeply engaged in hermetic thought and wrintings, he owned a number of copies of the Corpus Hermeticum. It was also Stukeley who undertook the first ever survey of Royston Cave just after it was rediscovered and i'm sure i've heard that it was him who removed the skull... (and maybe some pottery).

2. There is apparently a large mosaic on the floor of the cathedral in Siena that depicts Hermes Trismegistus and Moses and the exchanging of the tablet - but i can't find a picture.

3. You might already know this - for a while in his early career Isaac Newton was pre-occupied with finding the ‘Sacred Cubit of the Jews’ (a measurement) - could be the measurements you were talking about labbiel?

Just some thoughts, Over and Out.

[AdrianGilbert]

Hey all, by the sounds of it business is picking up again!

Been doing some archaeology research today and picked up on 3 things that could be potentially useful:

1. William Stukeley, a prominent antiquitarian of the 18th century and friend of Isaac Newton, studied the writings of Hermes Trismegistus and at one point was believed to be deeply engaged in hermetic thought and wrintings, he owned a number of copies of the Corpus Hermeticum. It was also Stukeley who undertook the first ever survey of Royston Cave just after it was rediscovered and i'm sure i've heard that it was him who removed the skull... (and maybe some pottery).

2. There is apparently a large mosaic on the floor of the cathedral in Siena that depicts Hermes Trismegistus and Moses and the exchanging of the tablet - but i can't find a picture.

3. You might already know this - for a while in his early career Isaac Newton was pre-occupied with finding the ‘Sacred Cubit of the Jews’ (a measurement) - could be the measurements you were talking about labbiel?

Just some thoughts, Over and Out.

1) William Stukely is a famous antiquarian who surveyed such monuments as Stonehenge and Avebury. It is not then surprising that he should have also surveyed Royston Cave. Royston = Roi-Stone, i.e. the stone of a king. The question is which king?

2) The picture of Hermes in Sienna Cathedral is very famous. You will find copies of it in a number of books, including Frances Yates' 'Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition'. It is placed there because in the late Renaissance, after the Hermetica were translated into Latin, there was a vogue for Hermeticism. Hermes Trismegistus was equated with Enoch the prophet, seventh in line from Adam and therefore much older (and therefore wiser?) than Moses. Hermeticism had a huge impact on western consciousness and gave rise to much of what we now consider to be the Wetern Esoteric Trdition.

3) Isaac Newton's 'Sacred Cubit' (of 25 inches) was derived from the measurement of the perimeter of the Great Pyramid. This later gave rise to 'Pyramidology' which made use of the 'Pyramid Inch' (one twenty-fifth of Newton's Sacred Cubit) to measure out time in the passageways and chambers of the pyramid. You will find something about this in my book 'The New Jerusalem'. :)

Hope this helps.

Adrian.

[labbiel]

Hi All,

I sent a email to the Ashmolean Museum regarding Isacc Newton model and this is the reply I received

Thank you for your email regarding the model of the Temple of Solomon
designed by Sir Isaac Newton. I'm afraid we are unaware of such an
object in our collection. Where did you learn it was in our
collection? It may assist us if you supply us with a scan or
photocopy? I'm sorry I can't be of more assistance.

I have replied to the email giving the details from the book. Reply below:-

Thank you for the information. I found out about the collection through a book called Maranatha Et in Arcadia Ego The Companion (this book is supposed to layout factual information by researchers) published by Priory Publication (GB) Ltd. On page 142 it states the following:-

Isaac Newton, a Grand Master of the secret society named the 'Priory of Sion', was convinced that the divine design of the building held the secrets of creation and he devoted his time to painstakingly researching the subject. He even built a model of the Temple which can still be seen in the world's oldest Museum, the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford, England.

So I was assuming that maybe you would have a photo of the object mentioned.

[labbiel]

Hi All,

I have noticed in relation to Isaac Newton the book on p.133 also makes further reference to Isaac's search for answers, especially important note I thought was that Newton had painstakingly copied by hand the works of Nicolas Flamel and the THEMIS AUREA by Michael Maier (I had noticed from previous posts in the past others were trying to make a connection with a Michael, maybe this is the Michael reference to him can be found at http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:kqegYh_gxf8J:www.levity.com/alchemy/maier_la.html+Themis+Aurea+Michael+Maier&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1, again the author mentions Newtons treatise on the encoded secrets of God can be found at Ashmolean Museum. I'm following this up with the Museum.

Aslo noticed that the symbol on the front of the book has now been highlighted with a glowing light on the right hand top side and left bottom side, it would appear the author maybe highlighting the use of this symbol as part of the key?

Other interesting notes i made are if you take the name Encoh delete the n you have Echo as mentioned on p156 name of nymph Cursed to repeat the word of others forever.

In regards to the word Truth which seems to be the theme of this book:-
Also the author mentions on p 98 mentions St Paul 1 Corinthians if you look at Thessalonians Paul wrote the first as52AD to confirm the new converts to the faith and correct the errors of doctrine and work and the second was also written from Corinthians soons after the first and designed to correct false impressions concerning Christ's advant, and especially to place the author right before the world as an authorised apostle and teacher.

But concerning Truth Friedrich Delitzch dared t speak the truth back in a lecture on January 1902,he was a professor of Assyriology at Berlin University. Upon viewing and translating the Epic of Creation, which he was able to draw parallels with the biblical account of man's creation in Genesis. He showed that the Bible was not, as previously thought, the world's oldest book but was infact preceeded by leterature from much earlier epoch, stating that the Bible could no longer be regarded as unique and therefore pure revleation, his work questioned the fundamental fabric of the old testament. He made people question for the first time the literal TRUTH of the Bible. For this he was the victim of strong attach whcih was enought to unseat him from Berlin University. Just thought that a interesting bit of information.

[jlockest]

The latest clue - any ideas? The misspelling of (k)nights is interesting - hope it was intentional!

What religious order wore/wears a green habit/robe?

[rch]

Hi All,

I sent a email to the Ashmolean Museum regarding Isacc Newton model and this is the reply I received

Thank you for your email regarding the model of the Temple of Solomon
designed by Sir Isaac Newton. I'm afraid we are unaware of such an
object in our collection. Where did you learn it was in our
collection? It may assist us if you supply us with a scan or
photocopy? I'm sorry I can't be of more assistance.

Hmmm, interesting. labbiel, the Temple of Solomon is also a reference to the Solar System or, more specifically, the Earth, the Sun, the Pole Star, and the 12 zodiacal asterisms along the ecliptic of the earth.

Can you try writing back to the Ashmolean and ask them if they have a model of the Solar System or any other celestial models by Newton?

[rch]

The latest clue - any ideas? The misspelling of (k)nights is interesting - hope it was intentional!

What religious order wore/wears a green habit/robe?

The only thing that comes to mind is the Sufis' El Khadir, or Green Man. Either that, or the Order of St Lazarus wears a green cross that's very similar to the Templars cross.

I went to Borders in Oxford Street yesterday to buy the Companion book, but it wasn't in stock...

[labbiel]

HI All,

The latest reply from the museum is attached.

Having spoken with our curators, I have been reassured that this object
is not in our collection. We think it may have been mislabelled, I have
spoken with the Museum of the History of Science in Oxford and I believe
they have a slide of the Temple of Solomon. Otherwise I'd suggest
trying an institution in Cambridge. I'm sorry I couldn't be of more
assistance.

Maybe this relates to the clue regarding perceived mistakes were designed to authenticate those who will reveal the answers.

Today I have re read the first book and noticed information that I had not noticed before in the transcript it also relates to the companion book and I have found a description of the key and how it is a metaphor, the companion book also mentions that this key is depicted by the geometric tree and is a combination of the key and interlocking hexagrams. I'm being a bit elusive here in regard to what has been described in the book as the key, as I'm still working on it at present in regards to the diagram which I feel will overlay the words and hopefully describe the relative information needed. I could be totally wrong with my assumption also, so if it leads anywhere I post notes.

[rch]

See my previous message... I would write back to the Ashmolean, thanking them profusely for their patience, and ask them if perhaps there is a model by Newton of the Solar System or any other celestial representation...

I know two completely separate academics in Oxford who regularly research at the Ashmolean, so I can ask them to have a look if we can get confirmation or an exhibit number, but I don't want to send them on a wild goose chase.

[labbiel]

Hi rch,

I have sent an email back to the museum asking for the information, when I receive a reply I will post it for you.

[rch]

I have sent an email back to the museum asking for the information, when I receive a reply I will post it for you.

Okay, cool. Either way we'll get information... we'll either get confirmation that Solomon's Temple is a code for the pattern of celestial bodies or they'll say that there are no Newton models in the Ashmolean, in which case we'll know that we're being led up the garden path.

Either way, next time one of my pals goes over there, I'll ask them to have a sniff around for anything Newtonian or model-ish.

[jlockest]

The only thing that comes to mind is the Sufis' El Khadir, or Green Man. Either that, or the Order of St Lazarus wears a green cross that's very similar to the Templars cross.


The things that went through my brain were: Islam (ie a general statement saying that the red and white knights embraced Islam), the priests entrusted with the tablets of Thoth (ie they embraced Egyptian ideas) and the image of Asmodeus at RLC (al though his/its robe changed colour) (not sure what that would mean - but given the robe is recent - no really relevent. Although the seal of Asmodeus is an intriguing design - incorporating a demonic/serpent tail, what look like twin pillars, a templar cross..and a wiring diagram for the first Marconi wireless (there's a contradiction in terms..!)
Looks like they corrected the nights/knights issue on the web site as well...(I thought I had misread it , but I tend to cut an paste the clues into my working document when they're released - so the original clue was 'nights' - obviously a type on their behalf)

[labbiel]

Hi Rch,

Received reply back from museum:-

I have spoken with the Keeper (who I believe has emailed you) and i'm
afraid that in reference to the current email, we do not have anyone at
the Museum who specialises in this area. Therefore, I'm afraid we
cannot be of any assistance with this request.

I'm sorry we couldn't be of more assistance.

Best of luck with the research!

[labbiel]

Hi Rch,

Just received this reply:-

Dear Christine

Newton's treatise, referred to in your email to Amanda, is clearly a
manuscript. The Ashmolean had a large collection of these until the
1880s, when they were all transferred to the Bodleian Library here in
Oxford. It may have been one of the manuscripts belonging to Elias
Ashmole (but need not necessarily have been so). Either way, the
Bodleian is where you will find it.

With best wishes
Arthur MacGregor

[AdrianGilbert]

Hi Rch,

Just received this reply:-

Dear Christine

Newton's treatise, referred to in your email to Amanda, is clearly a
manuscript. The Ashmolean had a large collection of these until the
1880s, when they were all transferred to the Bodleian Library here in
Oxford. It may have been one of the manuscripts belonging to Elias
Ashmole (but need not necessarily have been so). Either way, the
Bodleian is where you will find it.

With best wishes
Arthur MacGregor

Excuse me butting in here but might the treatise you are looking for be contained in a book entitled 'The Chronology of the Ancient Kingdoms Ammended'. It is by Sir Isaac Newton and was published in London in 1728. I have a copy of a facsimile version and it contains a chapter called: 'A Description of the Temple of Solomon'. This contains Newton's drawings of the Plans of Solomon's Temple. Is this what you are looking for? :)

[labbiel]

Hi AdrianGilbert,

Yes this is what I'm looking for is it possible for you to post a copy of the picture?

On Tweleve.org Factor4 posted this response

Hi all,

I'm feeling a bit shocked and a lot baffled. Unless it's an elaborate hoax, I seem to have found the key. If it's real, and not a joke then it's beyond awesome.....it is simply astounding. A part of me feels like having a Eureka! moment, another part is quite scared, and I also feel somewhat suspicious. It is so bizarre, and (at this stage anyway) inexplicable. If it's real, then to say it affects history is putting it mildly.

Now that I've recovered a bit since my "discovery" yesterday I am trying to work out which part(s)of the puzzle the key can be successfully applied to. No luck so far, but I will let you know if and when I find it.

I am happy to chat about this, if anyone wants, but I think this discovery is all the more amazing for the way in which you find it. It's like a massive revelation - although I've no idea how that revelation is to be interpreted. Maybe you will. The implications are potentially huge.

Anyway, in a nutshell I do hope it's not a hoax, as I really want answers soon.

Have asked what the key consisted of in his assumption to date no reply.

So will keep ploading along, so Adrian would love to see a photo of the temple of solomon referring to Newton.

This is the information I'm working on presently, I feel the geometric tree may relate to the design of the temple of Solomon, there seems to be some reason why the author would give us the dimensions, e,g, Mount Moriah stretch of land running north-south, Between Mount Zion to theWest and Mount of Olives to the East. It states that this House of God had dimenszion that were exactly double that of the TAbernacle of Moses. The new temple interior was 60 cubits long, 20 cubits wide and 30 cubits high with additional porchof 10 cubits deep. This seems to relate to the to dowith length, width, height and depth feast did he on the honey of the prize, and notes relating to The Great Tree consisting of 10/11 circles arranged in a branchlike system with 33 rods connecting them together.
In Enoch 3 the scribes constitute a high order of angle, the register the dees of all men and read alound the books of judgment at the convening of the sessions of the celestrial court.
Book 1

pvii - Discover the ancient secret device and with it discover how to successfully claim the prize.

Knowledge of the truth can be seen in first order of civilisation, seen to be venerated and respected.

Px11 design as an item that could be easily hidden

Pxv111 Leonardo Da Vinci ENCODED IT.


p12 of encoded text reads Gods gave the caduceus as a key.

p16 Sacred design for in the arc of the staff of times scythe

Book 2

P66 The shape depicted by the geometric tree is a combination of a caduceus and interlocking hexagrams.

[labbiel]

Hi all,

Received this reply to the newton theory from twelve forum, I have been posting on that site under Messenger. Mothman attached this which I thought was very interesting.


Hey Messenger,

How about merging Newton's Solomon Temple with Da-Vinci's Vitruvian man..
Listed under Mothman about half way down the page.

http://tweleve.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5628&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=105&sid=3e73a74826c527489992056d00bf5f31

you will need to go and look at this link to see how the drawing of the temple and Davinci's Vitruvian man overlay perfectly. I can't seem to copy and paste the picture on to this site.

[labbiel]

I'm presently looking at geometric shape with pictures. Using solomon temple dimensions to draw the square outline and it is interesting to note page 8 use the shape of the pyramid and overlay p 9 with the line of the land and you have a perfect triangle and p7 and 10 fit into an arc, just finished drawing up the diagram will see what it leads to.

Line the top of the square up on the top of the line atthe top of the page

[firedragon]

Roysyon Cave is open Sunday 3rd December from 11am to 3pm.
This is weather permitting.
Visits can be arranged for private viewing by phoning the Royston Town Council.
The cost for this is £20.

[rch]

Newton's treatise, referred to in your email to Amanda, is clearly a manuscript. The Ashmolean had a large collection of these until the 1880s, when they were all transferred to the Bodleian Library here in Oxford. It may have been one of the manuscripts belonging to Elias Ashmole (but need not necessarily have been so). Either way, the Bodleian is where you will find it.

Hmmm, a treatise in the Bodleian is a different kettle of fish than a model in the Ashmolean... I wonder how many other clues are "off"?

I smell a red herring...

[labbiel]

HI All

Also on the forum they have been talking when DB was asked "Is the key a geometric construction?" his reply was, "In essence, 'yes'

In regards to the word Essenes I feel Duncan was playing on words here especially when you look at the cult of the religious groupthe Essenes.

the Essences were the Quram sect widely thought to be authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls, were highly Kabbalist in thier thinking and the Kabbalah developed it became increasingly associated withthe use of certain symbols. A wise man, A hermit, a child, a king and a sacrificed god were among those symbols, that used representations of the human form. Some of the more arcane signs ere the truncated pyramid, the cross of roses and the three-dimensional cube, which are now shrouded in mystery, many Kabbalist emblems are still used by branches of Freemasonry.
The Essences were a group who beliefs were more predominantly mystical and who based much of their activites ontheir understanding of the Kabbalah, the secret inner sanctum of Judaic thought that was derived fromthe more "pagan" , Egyptian belifs. Also a point to remember is the Joseph is believed at the age of 17 to have gone away to learn customs of 3 sects and in the end he chose Essenses. He was said to have been taught by Malachi, spending 4 years with this teacher inthe desert.

Other bits mentioned on the forum.

Micheal once mentioned that the front-piece to Le Mystere des Cathedrales by Fulcanelli is interesting, and indeed it is. With all the talk of Fulcanelli and his "language of the birds" I thought I would show it. http://tweleve.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5628&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=150 posted by apprentice.

I have been looking at this and noticed some interesting bits. I believe it to be a
depiction of Themis, she was on of the Titians and Themis was so ancient that the followers of Zeus claimed that it was with him she produced the Three Fates themselves on p124 of second book Zeus sent Themis to help repopulate the land so began the AGe of Heroes. She was referred to as Ma'at by the ancient Egyptians and was often depicted with an ostrich feather.

[labbiel]

Hi Rch,

It would appear that the newton exercise is a red herring, yet on the Maranatha site it says under clues

'There are no 'Red Herrings' in the Maranatha - Et in Arcadia Ego publication. Every sentence of the coded text has a specific and genuine reason.'

Maybe that only refers to the first book, it would be interesting to know Duncan's slant on this?

Anyways back to the puzzle, I have tried the overlays which I located two interlocking triangles and semi arc circle, but don't seem to be able to get any coding out of the text. I feel it does relate tothe key though, just can't see through the tall grass yet!!! I feel maybe the puzzle has something to do with Themis, its interesting she is often depicted also with a blind fold and scales of justice, sound familiar to an icon in America???

[labbiel]

Hi All,

I'm frustrated with these shapes. This is what I have done so far, line the outline up with the top of the page starting on p 8 don't line with the picture but with the faint line and stop at the small dark line on the left top left hand corner. outline the hill, next page overlay your tracing onto this picture drawn a straight line where the land and sky begin and finish. this forms your first triangle, on p13 overlay your tracing and connect the triangle with earth sign, moon and neptune, this forms your two interlocking triangles. If you then overlay the tracing on p27 you will notice that the triangles overlay perfectly the T with serpents. Stop there to date, fed up with all the geometric shapes, need a break, so i'm just going to do some more reading. So much for a simple puzzle that can be solved in one day!!!! If you had the key then maybe, but how long does it take to get the right clues to formulate the key. It would appear the clues seem to lead you in every direction but the key. Must be a third book on the way!!!!!! The story it relates to will have to be something really intriguing if it relates to the legend of Themis I will be very disappointed as this has been talked about before and how it relates to descents from the stars and Lemuria etc. If it to do with foresight, well we all have that ability, but it linking the information to the facts the difficult, which is what this puzzle is about. Anyway I'm going to do some other things for a while until I can get back into the correct frame of mind to work on this puzzle again!!!

[labbiel]

Hi All,

I have to start to doubt the integrety of this puzzle, especially as these clues we always seem to get keep sending everyone off onto another angle from what they are presently working on and we all end up more confused then before. the puzzle has been interesting for solidifying my knowledge base, but as to locating the key, well that is another story altogether. So I have to state it would have to be ground breaking to say the least.

Some of you may find this unusal but I will tell you I have used the other side (my guides) & Deva to attain an answer and in the beginning they told me "Opus Magnum" "The Great Work" and showed a book whose cover was made of blue stone with golden leaves for pages and told me that the book is constantly being written in, but they said the book resides in Tara in the Ark of the Convenant they also showed me a diagram of a circle with a square inside the circle followed bythe Ogdoadic Star, which when I research this informatin it seemed to fit, but alas to no avail, so right from the beginning I have had my doubts to the outcome of this puzzle, but I have learnt so much along the way and the money wasn't my main draw card it was knowledge, which I have to say I have attained.

[rch]

Roysyon Cave is open Sunday 3rd December from 11am to 3pm.

Thanks for the notice... I don't think I'll be able to get out there until after Christmas now... did anyone else make it?

[rch]

Micheal once mentioned that the front-piece to Le Mystere des Cathedrales by Fulcanelli is interesting, and indeed it is. With all the talk of Fulcanelli and his "language of the birds"

As it happens, I know this book well, I have it in both French and English. I also know Chartres Cathedral well, having spent many a weekend in Chartres when I had an office in Paris.

Fulcanelli doesn't exist, in the same way that they Priory of Sion doesn't exist. It's all performance art written by a group of people. I prefer his other book, Dwellings of the Philosophers, actually. The coding is derived from the system known as the Art of Memory.

[rch]

It would appear that the newton exercise is a red herring, yet on the Maranatha site it says under clues

'There are no 'Red Herrings' in the Maranatha - Et in Arcadia Ego publication. Every sentence of the coded text has a specific and genuine reason.'

Maybe that only refers to the first book, it would be interesting to know Duncan's slant on this?

Maybe his just testing our detective skills? Or, maybe I should still get someone to have a look around the Ashmolean...?

[rch]

Speaking of the Hertfordshire Templars earlier on, a "Friendly Freemason" sent me this update:-

http://www.herts-essex-news.co.uk/news/mercury/hertfordshire_mercury/2006/12/01/mayor%20wants%20town%20on%20holy%20grail%20trail.l pf

Mayor wants town on Holy Grail trail

DEBATE is raging over whether Hertford should cash in on its links to the Holy Grail to draw tourists to the town.

Mercury stories about the town's links to the Knights Templar, who are said to be the keepers of the Cup of Christ, have made international headlines and featured on several TV programmes.

But the town council has failed to use the publicity to boost Hertford's economy, offering little help to a number of TV stations and other media organisations that were seeking access to the castle.

[neophyte]

The things that went through my brain were: Islam (ie a general statement saying that the red and white knights embraced Islam), the priests entrusted with the tablets of Thoth (ie they embraced Egyptian ideas) and the image of Asmodeus at RLC (al though his/its robe changed colour) (not sure what that would mean - but given the robe is recent - no really relevent. Although the seal of Asmodeus is an intriguing design - incorporating a demonic/serpent tail, what look like twin pillars, a templar cross..and a wiring diagram for the first Marconi wireless (there's a contradiction in terms..!)
Looks like they corrected the nights/knights issue on the web site as well...(I thought I had misread it , but I tend to cut an paste the clues into my working document when they're released - so the original clue was 'nights' - obviously a type on their behalf)

Was'nt the green man associated with Rosslyn. The stone faces spread around the chapel. Didn't it also come up when the Templars were tortured as well.

[labbiel]

Hi All,

Found this reference dealing with green monks under templars:-

The Chaplains of the order were garbed in a green mantle with the red TemplarCross on it. They always wore white gloves that can be found in Freemasonrytoday and as far back as Egyptian times.

Also didn't templars have aprons also, if so look at drawing on page 9 and you notice one of the figures holding a staff has on a apron and is wearing gloves, so maybe this is some reference to the drawing.

[neophyte]

Hi All,

Found this reference dealing with green monks under templars:-

The Chaplains of the order were garbed in a green mantle with the red TemplarCross on it. They always wore white gloves that can be found in Freemasonrytoday and as far back as Egyptian times.

Also didn't templars have aprons also, if so look at drawing on page 9 and you notice one of the figures holding a staff has on a apron and is wearing gloves, so maybe this is some reference to the drawing.

I'm not sure about aprons but they wore or are believed to have worm sheepskin undergarments or undies for want of a better term.
I think it is believed, in some circles, to have been associated with or a precurser to the sheepskin aprons of Freemasons.

[jlockest]

Hi All,
......

The Chaplains of the order were garbed in a green mantle with the red TemplarCross on it. They always wore white gloves that can be found in Freemasonrytoday and as far back as Egyptian times.
,,,

Also look at Al-Khadir - his link to Alexander searching for the elixir of life and also his ties to Moses. Al-Khadir is a (the?) green-man. Pre-dates Islam.
Not sure again if it has owt to do with the puzzle - but yet another interesting little detour.

[OIN]

The reference to 'The priests of the Red and White Knights wore green', I'm pretty sure is linked to Bernard Of Clairvaux and the Cistercian order-Bernard was instrumental in the formation of the Poor Knights of Christ which eventually became the Templar order-It is gereally held that he was not what could be regarded as being 'mainstream' Christian in his beliefs-in fact he had definite leanings towards a gnostic belief system.Bernards involvement with both the Templars and his influence over the allegedly 'Sufi' Holy Roman Emperor Frederick the second would seem to bear this out. The reference to the colour green suggests the 'green language' or 'language of the birds' as referred to by Fulcanelli. The green language is essentially a symbolic language which has its roots with the Heliopolis priesthood and was widely used by Gnostic adherents.Green is also the colour attributed to mercury.As is the day of the week Wednesday-Didn't the last clue suggest that the puzzle could be solved in a day? I wonder if the day in question is indeed wednesday?

[neophyte]

The reference to the colour green suggests the 'green language' or 'language of the birds' as referred to by Fulcanelli.

Has anyone seen the DVD's called "The Librarian" starring Noah Whylie.

No 1 is " The Quest for ther Spear " Ie The Spear of Destiny
No 2 is " Quest for solomon's Mines " Ie Solomons Key

In No 2 The Librairian has to decypher " The Language of the Birds"

Curious link with Solomon, Solomon's Temple and Solomons Key,
the previous posting re the Temple of Solomon and the floor plan in the Ashmolean museum and Maranatha.

[labbiel]

Hi Oin,

Green is also the colour attributed to mercury.As is the day of the week Wednesday-Didn't the last clue suggest that the puzzle could be solved in a day? I wonder if the day in question is indeed wednesday?

Just a snippet of information on Wednesday - it is the fourth day of the week up until 1971 when it became the third day and it is known as Woden's Day or odin's day called by the French Mercredit, Mercury's day. The Persians regard it as a "red letter day" because the Moon was created on the fouth day.

And if you like that line of thought a great book is The great Pyramid decoded byPeter Lemesurier. HIs assumptions are quite fascinating. His research states that Odin roamed the world, staff in hand, disguisehd as a one-eyed man. and Wodan/Odin - he of the 'winged hat' - is traditionally associated with Mercury the winged messenger, and thus Hermes and Hermes is apparently to be identified with the Egyptian Thoth or Tehuti who, like Odin and the Mayan Votan, was held by thier devotees to have been one of the founders of true civilisation. He noted that the Egyptian Tehuti appears to be the same word as the Aztec Techuhtili (meaning grandfather or lord as in Yiacatecuhtli, he believes all the legends of ancient founding - father of civilisation may derive from a single common source. He then looks at Quetzalcoatl "the plummed serpant" he was a man who breed heros from whom myths were created, he is matter descending to earth as a crawling snake and in his hand is a staff sprouting life, and he also carries the spear of themorning star, the author believed the staff was reminiscent of the Egyptian ANKH. Its an interesting book in relation to the author connecting all the dots relating to bible text and ancient manuscripts and pieceing the clues together, sounds familiar to the puzzle, he links the information to the pyramids.

[labbiel]

HI neophyte

Yes I have seen both films

[OIN]

Hi Labbiel,
Thanks so much for your fascinating post.I'll certainly try to acquire a copy of Lemesuriers book at the first opportunity.From what I guess you are saying here,his thesis doesnt appear to differ greatly from the conclusions I've drawn from my own enquiries into this subject.

[labbiel]

HI Oin

Rather then buy the book check out the library, I picked this copy up from the library. In regard to Bernard Of Clairvaux and the Cistercian order they were known as the White Monks, which is why I went with priests of the templars wore Green and they use Aprons in Freemasonary which is based on the Ancient Egyption craft known as "The Great Brotherhood".
Oh by the way if you remember when we were discussing solomon's temple and Da-Vinci's Vitruvian man you may not have realised but on the back of both books of the maranatha puzzle is the diagram very lightly placed under the writing in the second book it is almost obscure the the vitruvian man this is why I made comment in regard to previous post 11-28-2006, 09:22 PM
figure known as the Vitruvian Man is actually named for the man who created him, the Roman architect Vitruvius. Vitruvius, a proponent of the Sacred Geometry of Pythagoras, designed temples based on the proportions of the human body, believing them to be perfect

[labbiel]

Presently I'm looking at the text dealing with Christian Rosemkreutz and have been trying to make links to the Rose - C roix - Especially as Rosenkreutz was concerned with Alchemy I noticed inscribed on his tomb the word "jesus mitii Omnia" haven't been able to locate this meaning yet!! but noticed some interesting facts regarding Rose-Croix - Rose = Paragon= Touchstone (jasper or basanite) known as Lapis Lydius of the ancients - a saying is - Gold is tried by the touchstone, and men by gold.” —Bacon touchstone is used as a criterion or STANDARD and in old fables Mercury was turned into a touchstone.

Also looking into the Red Cross of Babylon known as the order of the REd Rose - Lesson of Truth who are an invitational body originally sponsored by the Knight Masons or Irelenad. They are also known as the "Green Degrees" who are referred to as the REd Cross Of Babylon Degrees are Knight of the Sword, Knight of the EAst and Knight of the East and West and finally Installed Chief (Chair Degree) These are ancient degrees and are old testament based on the legend of Zerubbabel who is said to have liad the foundation for the second temple in Jerusalem- Zerubbabel was the ‘head’ of the house of David -Zerubbabel is called “the branch” - stump of Jesse

As I don't know much about Mason would like to know your thoughts on the subject.

[OIN]

Hi Labbiel-Just to confirm my previous assertion regarding Bernard of Clairvaux and the Cistercian order being connected to the priests of the red and white knights;Heres a Quote from Bernard himself...
'What is God?
He is length,width,height and depth'
Bernard Of Clairvaux;'On Consideration'
'The high priest of the emerald monks knew the meaning of the work.For see did he that the word was length width height and depth'

[labbiel]

Hi Oin

That's a good point, would appear to point in that direction then, but there are so many clues which can lead in so many different directions, it would be great to have clarity in which direction to throw one's energy. But with each new clue it seems to lead to a different path, will be interesting to see what the new clue will say. Still don't see how it can be solved in one day. I Will keep plodding along

[OIN]

Labbiel (Or is it Messenger?-Lol!)
Dont know if you picked up on this gem when it was originally posted on the Tweleve boards- http://www.detecting.org.uk/html/Royston_Cave_Joseph_Beldam_1884_The_Full_Text
.html Beldam makes direct reference to The Royston cross which stood at the intersection of the Icknield and Irmine ways and states that not only was it originally known as "De Cruce Roaesie,"(The rosy cross?) but that a priory of the same name was established close by. Just wondering if the reference in the little red book to the tomb of Rosenkruitz and the gold of Enoch could be a powerful indicator towards Royston cave having been both a tomb and a treasure repository at some point in its past-Also, I find the link with the assumed Rosicrucian priory to be very relevant too-If you get a chance,check this out and let me know your thoughts on the subject.

[jlockest]

If you get a chance,check this out and let me know your thoughts on the subject.

Take a look at:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=37966
This seems to fix the date of the town being named between 1090's and 1160's (ie nothing in Domesday, then a priory). The genealogy I had built has Rohesia as the wife of Eudo 'Dapifer' (the 'Steward' - to William The Conqueror. Eudo also took part in the Crusades). Although the cross may be named after another 'Rose' - I think she is the one.
The link I found interesting is that Eudo's father was Hubert De Rie (of Rye a small port on the Sussex coast at that time (the sea has subsequently receded much as it has at Pevensey) - a name he was given after the conquest - he was a St Clare).

I do not have any dates for Hubert, but I do have the following:
Eudo - 1047-1120
Rohesia - 1055 - 1121

Rohesia's family seems to be from a certain Richard fitz Gilbert De Clare (also known as de BienFaite). He married another 'Rose' (although the Rohais name could also have Germanic roots and not mean Rose at all) - Rohais de Gifford (or Giffart) (the daughter of Walter Gifford) - Rohesia is then their daughter.

The bit that also fascinated me was then the grandchild - Geoffrey De Mandeville son of Margaret de Rie (Eudo/Rohesia's daughter) and her husband William De Mandeville (although again this is stated in places and disputed in others as in certain texts it implies they did not have any children)) - and his antics. Such an odd story - a complete villain who attacked the church and on his deathbed was wrapped in a cloak by a group of Templars - taken to their London temple, encased in lead and hung from a tree (an apple tree) - finally posthumously 'forgiven' by the pope, and interred inside the temple itself. He can be seen there to this day.

So the cave could be linked to Eudo/Rohesia. Eudo seems to be a St Clare as does Rohesia. Eudo potentially took part in the first crusade.

The genealogy that I built may be incorrect, so if there is a genealogist out there I can mail across what I have for verification....

My thoughts go along the route of the cave being far older than the conquest. The cave was discovered and then used - not sure what for, but maybe for something that was discovered during the crusades. Did the Templars find the two pillars of Enoch? Are the current two pillars 'venerated' by masons substitutes for the two 'true' pillars? Was the 'ineffable' name of G_d buried at Royston and subsequently moved to..where?..was anything buried there at all? Is the cave just an interesting detour pointing to a more ancient time.

What does the cave mean?
A link to the St Clare's and maybe Rosslyn?
A link to the Meridian (see where Royston is on the map)
A pointer to the 'Cross' roads?
A link to the Rosicrucians?
A link to the Romans as one of the clues implies?


End of brain dump...I'm amazed as I didn't realise my brain held more than 2 seconds worth

PS the link to Bernard of Clairvaux and the 'length,...' quote - very,very interesting. But I'm still lost as to the green link. If the Templar 'monks' wore green and not the cistercian white, then what the heck? What does the green imply? For an odd tie up with green and Moses take a look for Al-Khadir. Al-Khadir seems to be the original green man.

[jlockest]

...sorry, I realised after I posted that I had not established the St Claire (Sinclair) link - see:
http://sinclair.quarterman.org/history/med/battleofhastings.html

[jlockest]

Just found this today.

Walter Giffard (the father of Rohais who married Richard Fitz Gilbert (de Bienfaite etc) who had Rohesia- the wife of Eudo (sounds like something from Lord Of the Rings ...)) - was related to William Gifford (Walter was William's father - so William is Rohais sister and Rohesia's maternal uncle) .

A little history
Prior to the Conquest, the manor of Ashendon was held by three brothers, with Pollicott belonging to Alric, son of Godinge. Subsequently, the chief land owner, Walter Gifford, was a Norman from Longueville-sur-Scie, near Dieppe. He was the son of Walter Giffard of Bolbec, and a cousin of William. He married a daughter of Gerard Fleitel, and his children were: Walter Gifford II; William, bishop of Winchester; and Rohais, wife of Richard I of Clare. The family continued as Earls of Buckingamshire, but the male line died out in 1164.

So what? Well it just so happens that William was Cistercian and seems to have had links with Bernard of Clairvaux.......

See http://www.maths.warwick.ac.uk/~mpollic/name.html

William Gifford was also Chancellor -
http://www.dca.gov.uk/lcfr.htm

So it would seem that Royston has links to all the main players ....they all seem to know of each other - so after all that I'm still left with 'so what?'...

[labbiel]

Hi Oin

Either call sign will do. Thanks for the link and jlockest thanks for all your research.

[Pollyanna]

Presently I'm looking at the text dealing with Christian Rosemkreutz and have been trying to make links to the Rose - C roix - Especially as Rosenkreutz was concerned with Alchemy I noticed inscribed on his tomb the word "jesus mitii Omnia" haven't been able to locate this meaning yet!! but noticed some interesting facts regarding Rose-Croix - Rose = Paragon= Touchstone (jasper or basanite) known as Lapis Lydius of the ancients - a saying is - Gold is tried by the touchstone, and men by gold.” —Bacon touchstone is used as a criterion or STANDARD and in old fables Mercury was turned into a touchstone.

Also looking into the Red Cross of Babylon known as the order of the REd Rose - Lesson of Truth who are an invitational body originally sponsored by the Knight Masons or Irelenad. They are also known as the "Green Degrees" who are referred to as the REd Cross Of Babylon Degrees are Knight of the Sword, Knight of the EAst and Knight of the East and West and finally Installed Chief (Chair Degree) These are ancient degrees and are old testament based on the legend of Zerubbabel who is said to have liad the foundation for the second temple in Jerusalem- Zerubbabel was the ‘head’ of the house of David -Zerubbabel is called “the branch” - stump of Jesse

As I don't know much about Mason would like to know your thoughts on the subject.

Hello from Australia. There are some very interesting sites if you search "Jesus Mihi Omnia". Good luck!

[rch]

The reference to 'The priests of the Red and White Knights wore green'... Green is also the colour attributed to mercury.As is the day of the week Wednesday-Didn't the last clue suggest that the puzzle could be solved in a day? I wonder if the day in question is indeed wednesday?

"A day" could also be a reference to the correspondences of a "feast day". For instance, The Feast Day of John the Evangelist on December 27th is significant to Masons. Duncan also noted Saint George's Day in one of his clues... and January 17th is the Feast Day of Saint Sulpice, when Flamel allegedly attained the Great Work at Noon.

The colours references could also allude to a system of correspondences, for instance, here's one example but there are many others:-

http://www.colorsystem.com/projekte/engl/66isle.htm

"If both these systems are combined, the system of seven colours will arise. The number seven is of great cosmological significance, and so each colour can be assigned to the traditional seven visible planets. Based on the Egyptian system, the following series will be formed: black, signifying Saturn, followed by yellow with the symbol of the sun; green associated with the moon (the favoured colour for crests and flags in the Islamic world), red with Mars, blue with Mercury and sandalwood with Jupiter. White completes the series and belongs to Venus. These seven planets relate to the seven prophets Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and Mohammed, while an alternative allocation relates to the seven metals: lead, iron, tin, gold, copper, mercury and silver."

Happy Epiphany!

[labbiel]

Hi All

Check out this reference it relates to the Gnostic Circle
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:nCkVa3NByk4J:www.aeongroup.com/gc.htm+enneagram+planets&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3
Notice in Position 3 it is represented by the EArth and Moon sign together as portrayed on Page 10 picture these two signs appear above the cup together also.

[neophyte]

Also looking into the Red Cross of Babylon known as the order of the REd Rose - Lesson of Truth who are an invitational body originally sponsored by the Knight Masons or Irelenad. They are also known as the "Green Degrees" who are referred to as the REd Cross Of Babylon Degrees are Knight of the Sword, Knight of the EAst and Knight of the East and West and finally Installed Chief (Chair Degree) These are ancient degrees and are old testament based on the legend of Zerubbabel who is said to have liad the foundation for the second temple in Jerusalem- Zerubbabel was the ‘head’ of the house of David -Zerubbabel is called “the branch” - stump of Jesse

As I don't know much about Mason would like to know your thoughts on the subject.

Greetings Labbiel,

The following Quote could get lenghty but it should in part clarify your comments above.
Quote taken from " Encyclopedia of Freemasonry " by Arthur Edward Waite.

" Prince Mason.
The ceremony of this Grade is in one sense supplementary to the Royal Arch and in another is subversive thereof.
It opens in the Grand Chapter in Jerusalem, none being present but those who carry the sword as well as the trowel. The candidate is a Babylonish Master,bearing the name Zerubbabel. The Chapter is in tribulation and the work of the second temple is suspended under circumstances recorded in the 3rd and 4th chapters of Ezra. It is an old story beginning in the days of Cyrus, King of Persia, and continuing through those of Ahasuerus and Artaxerxes, even to the time of Darius. But Darius " hath ever been favourable to the people of God" and could he be informed " Tho our enemies encompass us about, peradventure he might help us" But who will undertake the mission? The answer is Zerubbabel , the candidate , because he has had aquaintance aforetime with Darius the King, and he will therefore travel to Persia with the request of the People.. so ends the first point, and in the second which takes place on a bridge over the Euphrates - the ambassador is arrested as a spy. The third is in the court of Darius , and when Zerubbabel is brought before him he is recognised as a quondam friend and associate.
For this reason and also for the truth of his cause , it is granted unto the ambassador that he shall return to his own people bearing written commands to the Governors of Darius and carrying the Persian Pass. He is reconducted to the bridge and so returns in safety to the Grand Chapter at Jerusalem where- as a reward for his services - he created a prince Mason.

Grade Value
Amidst all it's limitations - which are those in form and manner, in part peculiar to itself and in part an inheritance from the Craft Degrees - the Royal Arch is a Grade of Speaking Symbolism, whereas the Prince Mason is merely a Masonic adaption of Scripture-history.
As such , it conveys nothing and marks no stage in the Emblematic art.
It constiutes the 33rd Degree of the Early Grand Rite and is an older recension of the Grade known as Order of The Red Cross of Babylon under the Grand Council of the Allied Degrees, and otherwise as Knights of Babylon.
The last connects with the traditional history of the Grade, according to which Darius is supposed to have instituted an Order of Knights of The East, changed afterwards to Knights of the Eagle, in Palestine to Order of Knights of the Red Cross, and known finally in France as Knights of the Sword."

So it would appear from the above that these may well be one and the same Degrees. The commenatary in the encyclopedia contiunes for about another 1 1/2 A5 pages covering the Knight of the Sword however the quote provided should be sufficient to confuse you for now.

Regards
Neophyte

[labbiel]

Hi neophyte,

Thank you for the information, you have done a lot of research in the area.

[justjames]

hi...super fresh newbie here. i just got the puzzle the other day....it was nice reading all your posts...thx...hope i can add something of worth in the future, but at the moment i am playing catch up....good luck.

[Athanor]

Hi Just James,

Good luck, just do not believe every thing that you read.

Athanor

[jlockest]

Given that it had gone a bit quiet....and assuming that most of you have now got both the Maranatha and Companion...and given that you're all in diverse countries...

If you look at the bindings of the two books from the inside - ie by spreading apart two consecutive pages - are the bindings different? From mine, the original Maranatha book seems to have perforations on each page near the spine - almost as if the pages were meant to be detached (maybe to be able to move the images as either overlays or to create a larger, single image?).

I had already taken copies of the images and had been working on the assumption that the images need to be placed in conjunction with one another - maybe thats what the reference to the '...divide of their number..' relates to is pages 7/8 on top and pages 9/10 (as an example) below forming a two X two square.

More inane drivel from the home of inane drivel......

[neophyte]

Latest Hint
‘The Egyptian Staff is the rod that the masters used to measure their work’

From memory this clue may refer to the ancient Egyptian Cubit Rod. As construction was based on measurements called cubits the architects used rods to assist in their work.
There were from memory 2 standards for cubits. One was called " The Royal Cubit "
which is made up of 7 palms of 4 digits.
I see a similarity here with the divisions in the First book. 4 pictures separated by 7 pages. Also a recurrance of our old friend Pi. A handy way of converting between cubits and metres is 11/21 or Pi/6.
Also it took 21 years for Flamel to decode the book.
Also the underlining reference to Masonry with the term Masters and measuring their work.
How you ask?
One of the symbolic items used in Masonry and presented to a MASTER Mason is a 24 Inch rule. Here an inch represents an hour and its inference is how you measure your day and allocate time to Work, Rest, Study etc.

The site seems very very quiet of late. What's the go.
Is everyone too busy trying to work through the Companion Book or has everyone given up.
I know I have thought of doing so many times. Seem to be going nowwhere except round and round in circles.
Solve it in One Day - Figs.

[jlockest]

....
I think that the 'solve it one day' means that once you realise what the answer is all about, it will take a day to apply that to the 'book' to get the final 'translation' ... the fact that it may take 21 years to make that initial realisation......

[Athanor]

....
I think that the 'solve it one day' means that once you realise what the answer is all about, it will take a day to apply that to the 'book' to get the final 'translation' ... the fact that it may take 21 years to make that initial realisation......

This is the most reasonable thing that I have read for ages. The latest clue seems like yet another tangent going off who knows where. I fail to see how this can be helpful. While there are many bits of facinating information that we have all discovered doing this puzzle, finding the one thread that links it all together has been very confusing.:headscratch:

Perhaps we should eat more sardines ?? NO THIS IS NOT ANOTHER CLUE There is no :p reference to ORME either.

[jlockest]

I noticed my typo after I sent the message - the 'solve it one day' should have read 'solve it in one day' - but after I re-read the message as it appeared on the list, the humour of the typo appealed....so, although this points out the error, it's not a correction!

I think a return to basics may be in order - what is the puzzle?
1) It was encoded - 1st level. We know that the whole answer is in the book - so the excursions into various parts of mythistory, although fascinating, aren't necessary to solve the book itself (the 'puzzle')
2) The images appear to play a part in deciphering the book.So I have always assumed the book was double encoded. The simple (once you knew what it was!) pig pen cypher was level1 - the next level I have assumed to be either some form of overlay pattern (taken from a pattern hidden in the images) OR a skip sequence (again provided by some form of numbering taken from the images?) that revealed a 2nd hidden text.
3) Then why the clues? I'm not sure here, but the I feel the book is meant to encourage the journey, not just the search for the answer to a puzzle. So the clues refer to the 'excursions' and show/hint at the areas of history that have been effected by the 'secret', presumably (hopefully) opening the eyes of the seeker to a wider mystery.

Maybe it was intentional to filter the 'money seekers' from the 'truth seekers'? Maybe it was 'known' that if you achieve the answer and understand the implications, then the money becomes irrelevant anyway?

[labbiel]

Just a question

I remember awhile back that someone was looking into decoding to the knight-tour just wondering how that went.

.

[Athanor]

Quote: " Then why the clues? I'm not sure here, but the I feel the book is meant to encourage the journey, not just the search for the answer to a puzzle. So the clues refer to the 'excursions' and show/hint at the areas of history that have been effected by the 'secret', presumably (hopefully) opening the eyes of the seeker to a wider mystery. "

The secrets affect on history means that the secret would have to be very old in order to cover the time span indicated in the Maranatha. Certainly we are told that the Key has been reforged many times by each generation. This also means that many symbols will have conflicting meanings both the exoteric and esoteric.

They are certainly not making things easy, after all the Maranatha people were experts in their subjects and I bet that it took them many years to figure it out.

The basics they tell us have all been worked out, so all that is left is some plain decoding. Hmmmmmm. Still not easy.

Has anybody gotten further with the clue about 4,3,2 ???

[labbiel]

Hi Athanor

4,3,2 - an interesting note reference to the postcode in the front of the red book page 2

Priory Publications (GB) Ltd note the postcode
Postcode NR 32 4JG

Three names for it? Priory Publications (GB) Ltd mentioned 3 times on the page.

[Athanor]

Hi Athanor

4,3,2 - an interesting note reference to the postcode in the front of the red book page 2

Priory Publications (GB) Ltd note the postcode
Postcode NR 32 4JG

Three names for it? Priory Publications (GB) Ltd mentioned 3 times on the page.

Thanks for that Labbiel,

Have you looked at the proportions of the tomb stone in Nicolas Poussin's picture ? Another instance of 4,3,2.

Can the symbols in the 4 scenes be grouped into 4,3,2 in any meaningful way I wonder? More to think about and to try.

Athanor

[labbiel]

Hi Athanor

Using individual star patterns I can see how the postcode can be formed in certain patterns.
As has been mentioned before Yahoo is supposed to have something to do with the puzzle, but I believe the Yahoo mentioned is related to Yahweh, now this angel is also sometimes known as Yaho!!! thought that was interesting , so maybe the Yaho relates to this, when looking into details with this Yahweh came across reference to Yahweh and the serpents:-
The Bible states that Nechushtan's statue was created from Nechoshet, and eventually, around 700 BCE, that same statue was melted by King Hezekiah who wanted to use the valuable metal and at the same time prove Yahweh's superiority over the snake god:
When Moses came to take the Israelites out of Egypt, a description of one of the miracles shows the state of rivalry between the Yahweh cult and the Nechushtan cult: "

Old Testament prophets proclaimed that the faithful of Yahweh would be known by the mark of the Tau on their foreheads. The word "Tau" comes from the 19th letter of the Greek alphabet and Tau is the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet. As such, it speaks of finality, ending, forever.
They say Yahweh relates to Venus and number 6 and when you take all the venus symbols and match up the dots you notice it relates to the number 6.
Yahweh is connected to a phallic symbol represented by the Lingam or Mark of creation.

and as with Tau -
The name peacock's tail =
Melek Taus the peacock angel
peacock tail emblem for the evil eye
The peacock tail also relates to the tale of Io (Greek mythology) which relates to Jove
Peacock tail also relates to the Golden Section: -Euclid's proof used the figure below, which is sometimes known variously as the bride's chair, peacock's tail, or windmillhttp://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:AjGCnyNNc7YJ:mathworld.wol fram.com/PythagoreanTheorem.html+peacock%27s+tail+triangle&hl=en&ct=cl nk&cd=1
can fit the geometric shape in with leonardo last supper painting triangle on pillar wall.

Malak Taus, "Peacock Angel," is represented by a sculptured bronze bird. This icon, called Anza4 "the Ancient One," I believe the peacock angel corresponds with Quetzalcoatl both were associated with the planet Venus which the Mayans called the 'morningstar.' One of Lucifer (who relates to Shaitan)'s names is 'Morningstar', and the Peacock is the birdmask of Maat for the sephiroth Netzach, the sphere of Venus. And both Quetzalcoatl and the peacock angel are represented as both snake (on the Tree of Knowledge) and bird. Staring at the serpent's head on the ground.

[rch]

As has been mentioned before Yahoo is supposed to have something to do with the puzzle

Oh this is so funny! Who said that Yahoo had something to do with the puzzle?? Someone has an evil sense of humour...

Do you know the part Gulliver's Travels plays in the fabricated history of the Priory of Sion? Have you ever heard of the Language of the Horses? Caballus...

Try googling Yahoo and Gulliver's Travels together. And then Fulcanelli.

[labbiel]

Hi Rch,

In regards to Yahoo sorry that related to another site I'm on, the person who put forward that information he advised that the solution was revealed to him.
The puzzle, when it was shown to him (in the mid 1970's actually) was in exactly the same format as that shown in the red book except that it was not in the form of a book at that time only loose manuscript pages.
The design on the cover was as far as he can remember exactly the same. He goes under the name Michaelr on twelve site.
He posted a 70 page report detailing what each section of the book may represent, this information related to the companion book before it even came out and more detail.
Michaelr - some say is the author, but from what I can ascertain he is also trying to solve the puzzle and beleives there is a second part to the puzzle similar to jlockest assumption.

Some extracts from the report:-
"But look to the preying face of the demons,for like the fiery serpents,they obscure the undulating moving of the divine truth swaying in the breath of Zeus.Such then is the need to solidify the wisdom to dispel these beasts and offer firm understanding for mortal endeavour".

The reference to the "preying face of the demons" is a deliberate misspelling.The demons are represented in the drawing on page 8 are in fact Cherubim.In Akkadian,the word for cherub is karibou which means "one who prays".The word "preying" therefore should be spelt with the letter A thus - praying.The cherubim are dragons or demons who protect the throne of God by not alowing those who are not worthy to ascend any higher on the Holy Mountain(ascent to God). The deliberate misspelling of the word "preying" is an indication that the letter A is significant somehow in the context of this drawing.In fact the demon whose face is in the form of a lion,takes the form of the letter A.The staff crossing his body is the crosspiece of the A,while his body forms the rest of the shape of the letter A.This letter A is the letter A in the word YAHOO referred to in the section devoted to "Gaze now upon these ancient images".The "fiery serpents" likewise are Seraphim the highest of the order of angels also protectors of the throne of God whose sing praises to god.The name Seraphim is derived from the Hebrew noun saraph meaning fiery, flying serpent..A Fiery Serpent also appears in Numbers21:6-9,when God sends fiery serpents among the people,and when Moses is told by God to "Make a fiery serpent and put it on a pole".The phrase "they obscure the undulating movement of the divine truth" is a reference to the Cherubim and Seraphim's role as guardians of the throne of God.They represent all the obstacles that stand in the way between achieving the union of Heaven and Earth - the Coincidence of Opposites(union of man with God). By overcoming these obstacles a person is purified,and thus is able to continue their ascent to God.Overcoming these obstacles is a painful process,and those who are not worthy may well succumb along the way.That is why they are depicted as demons,and dragons and the like.To those who manage to overcome the obstacles they seem as angels,helpers on the path to God,for it is only by facing and overcoming these obstacles that one grows spiritually.

His interpetation of the symbol on the front of the book

The symbol on the cover of the book represents an owl - the symbol of wisdom . The two circles represent the owls's eyes, while the M shape formed in the negative space beneath the eyes represent its folded wings, The M is a reference to the M identified in the text, and the two eyes formed by the circles could be taken as references to the two letter O's in YAHOO.

As can be pointed out Yahoo was not around then (1970) so this is why I had made reference to the angel Yahweh (yaho).

Now just remember the puzzle has not been solved so Michaelr is only relating his assumptions from the knowledge he said was given to him back in 1970, but he believes there is a second part to the puzzle, which to date he has been unable to assertain.

Its interesting to note the amount of work people have put into solving this puzzle, maybe everyone should publish a book on the subject matter they have researched it is all very indepth stuff!!! Pity that know one yet has got the answer, or even agreed on where to send the answer to.

[rch]

In regards to Yahoo sorry that related to another site I'm on, the person who put forward that information he advised that the solution was revealed to him.
The puzzle, when it was shown to him (in the mid 1970's actually) was in exactly the same format as that shown in the red book except that it was not in the form of a book at that time only loose manuscript pages.
The design on the cover was as far as he can remember exactly the same. He goes under the name Michaelr on twelve site.
He posted a 70 page report detailing what each section of the book may represent, this information related to the companion book before it even came out and more detail.
Michaelr - some say is the author, but from what I can ascertain he is also trying to solve the puzzle and beleives there is a second part to the puzzle similar to jlockest assumption.

Ah, okay, now this makes sense. I'm not registered to the twelve list, but I know of Michael - he posted here (or, rather, the Other Place) at the beginning and also contacted me offlist. Michael, if you're reading this, I'm sorry I didn't get back to you, my life gets extremely complicated so sometimes I tend to drift away... but, I actually know the situation you referred to - the person died in 1995 and I have a copy of his archives. I know most of the whole story, I can probably explain more to you than you can explain to me.

This letter A is the letter A in the word YAHOO referred to in the section devoted to "Gaze now upon these ancient images".His interpetation of the symbol on the front of the book

The symbol on the cover of the book represents an owl - the symbol of wisdom . The two circles represent the owls's eyes, while the M shape formed in the negative space beneath the eyes represent its folded wings, The M is a reference to the M identified in the text, and the two eyes formed by the circles could be taken as references to the two letter O's in YAHOO.

As can be pointed out Yahoo was not around then (1970) so this is why I had made reference to the angel Yahweh (yaho).

Now just remember the puzzle has not been solved so Michaelr is only relating his assumptions from the knowledge he said was given to him back in 1970, but he believes there is a second part to the puzzle, which to date he has been unable to assertain.

Okay, let's back up a minute... I know the story of the symbol on the front of the book - unless Duncan was just fobbing me off. It's not actually relevant to the solution and it was told to me privately, so I don't want to write about it publically.

In any case, whichever way Michael got to the Yahoo reference, the term DID exist long before the search engine Yahoo was invented. It's from Gulliver's Travels, written in 1726, used metaphorically to symbolise Man. In Gulliver's Travels, the Horses are superior creatures with an advanced Language and Man is stupid. A bit like the concept of the Mice in Hitchhiker's Guide.

This is why I'm laughing - we're ALL Yahoos... just look at what we're going through to solve this blasted puzzle!

It's said that Boudet's Vrai Langue Celtique was based on this double-meaning language used to encode information about the mythical treasure of Rennes-le-Chateau. Fulcanelli (who doesn't actually exist) plays with this myth in relation to the coding of Cathedrals and in Dwellings of the Philosophers develops it into the concept of the Language of the Birds. The Language of the Birds is a kind of outer code, but the Language of the Horses is a more advanced inner system. A bit like verbal alchemy. Horse = Caballus = Cabala. Try doing the googles.

So, if Yahoo IS involved in the puzzle, it's to do with a hermetic system of transmitting encoded information. I'm just not convinced by the story of HOW we got to Yahoo to begin with. Although, sometimes when one is researching this material, one's mind makes the correct leaps for the wrong reason...

Human beings are fascinating creatures.

[AdrianGilbert]

...and as with Tau -
The name peacock's tail =
Melek Taus the peacock angel
peacock tail emblem for the evil eye


I wonder where you got 'Melek Taus' as meaning Peacock angel from? Melek means 'king'. 'Peacock's Tail' is a stage in the alchemical process and in Latin it is called 'Caus Pavonis'.

The connection of the peacock's tail with the evil eye is a fairly common superstition. Peacocks, of course, have an 'eye' on each tail-feather.

The 'peacock throne' is a symbol of royalty in Persia but probably predates the recent Persian dynasties by many centuries. One reason why peacocks are so reverred is that they are the enemies of serpents. Peacocks attack snakes.

The respelendent eyes on the tail of the peacock also represent the gathering of the angels around the throne of God. The ante-chamber of heaven is full of 'eyes' that scrutinise the would-be aspirant called for initiation before the throne of God.

I expect none of this will help you solve your puzzle though!:)

[jlockest]

Another excursion.....
I'm sure that I was taught at school that Veni,vidi, vici was a famous phrase used by Caesar upon his attempted conquest of Britain (seems that this person was too http://romans.etrusia.co.uk/whyinvade.php). Since the clue that referred to this phrase appeared, and it seems that the phrase stems from the battle of Zela in Turkey.

Looks like most of the stories in the 'excursions' have two versions. Is that what the 2nd to last clue hints at? Is the 'how' the bending of history by purposely planting a second (multiple) versions of a 'true' story?

[labbiel]

Hi jlockest,

Very interesting, but don't forget the clue also says the last is as important as the first, so the clue is What and How - twofolded.

[labbiel]

Hi All,

I have decided to go back to the beginning with my original thoughts and started gathering information and came across this interesting tippit:-

And they call Barnabes, Jupiter and Paul, Mercury
Barnabes = Joseph, who by the surmane was Barnabas A Levite a man of Cyprus by race. This is an extract from the Bible.

[neophyte]

Oh this is so funny! Who said that Yahoo had something to do with the puzzle?? Someone has an evil sense of humour...


The YAHOO under reference is probably the YAHOO !!!!! one exclaims when they actually make some headway with this.
I've had one YAHOO so far. I decoded the Pigpen.
Since then it's more BOOHOO than YAHOO.

Keep working. Only 20 more years to go.:lol:

[jlockest]

It seems that the story relating to the vision/dream of Constantine has two versions - and an interesting image of the use of the labarum appears on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:As-Constantine-XR_RIC_vII_019.jpg

[Athanor]

Hi all,

Have a look at Shamir....www.varchive.org/ce/shamir/shamir.html - The worm that burns. Just a little interesting diversion as if we need more.

Still, is this a secret that we have forgotten?

[Athanor]

Come to think of it.... how did they ever get the substance in the first place? Like all of these things it raises more questions that one finds answers for.

Solomon's Temple is the connection but apart from that it has me thinking about the last clue.

[neophyte]

The following details have taken me some time to collate and absorb so I hope that I have covered the subject satisfactorily.

Right from the start there has been an association between this puzzle and the Ancient Order of Freemasonry.
From the image on the Maranatha web page depicting the unfinished pyramid bearing the All Seeing Eye (as depicted on the US currency) to the chronological timeline in the back of the first book.
Not to mention the Parchment bearing the same symbols, its Squares and Compasses and Pigpen cipher.

From the timeline:-
1. 1730 The Royal Arch Degree is recognised, created and Established into English Freemasonry, by which Freemasons are granted their lost secrets.

This is what I believe the association is.

These lost secrets are those referred to when the Master Hiram Abiff is confronted and killed by 3 ruffians who sought the secrets known only to The Master Masons involved with the building of Solomon’s Temple. (There were 3 of them)

Initially the degree of Master Mason included the details included the HRA degree however this made the Ritual and / or Ceremony too lengthy.
The degree of Master Mason was separated and the formation of the Royal Arch Degree came to fruition.

The Degree of MM covers the killing of Hiram Abiff and the subsequent location of his body. His death left the Temple of Solomon unfinished (we know this is not in fact the truth as the temple was finished and destroyed more than once) but the temple in question is not the physical one and has subsequent meanings.

We see things progressing, and then the story relating to Zerrubabel comes forth.

Labbiel posted the following:-

Originally Posted by labbiel
Also looking into the Red Cross of Babylon known as the order of the Red Rose - Lesson of Truth who are an invitational body originally sponsored by the Knight Masons or Irelenad. They are also known as the "Green Degrees" who are referred to as the Red Cross Of Babylon Degrees are Knight of the Sword, Knight of the East and Knight of the East and West and finally Installed Chief (Chair Degree) These are ancient degrees and are old testament based on the legend of Zerubbabel who is said to have laid the foundation for the second temple in Jerusalem- Zerubbabel was the ‘head’ of the house of David -Zerubbabel is called “the branch” - stump of Jesse

As I don't know much about Mason would like to know your thoughts on the subject.




Greetings Labbiel,

The following Quote could get lengthy but it should in part clarify your comments above.
Quote taken from “Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry “by Arthur Edward Waite.

“Prince Mason.
The ceremony of this Grade is in one sense supplementary to the Royal Arch and in another is subversive thereof.
It opens in the Grand Chapter in Jerusalem, none being present but those who carry the sword as well as the trowel. The candidate is a Babylonish Master, bearing the name Zerubbabel. The Chapter is in tribulation and the work of the second temple is suspended under circumstances recorded in the 3rd and 4th chapters of Ezra. It is an old story beginning in the days of Cyrus, King of Persia, and continuing through those of Ahasuerus and Artaxerxes, even to the time of Darius. But Darius “hath ever been favourable to the people of God" and could he be informed” Tho our enemies encompass us about, peradventure he might help us" But who will undertake the mission? The answer is Zerubbabel, the candidate, because he has had acquaintance aforetime with Darius the King, and he will therefore travel to Persia with the request of the People.. so ends the first point, and in the second which takes place on a bridge over the Euphrates - the ambassador is arrested as a spy. The third is in the court of Darius , and when Zerubbabel is brought before him he is recognised as a quondam friend and associate.
For this reason and also for the truth of his cause , it is granted unto the ambassador that he shall return to his own people bearing written commands to the Governors of Darius and carrying the Persian Pass. He is re-conducted to the bridge and so returns in safety to the Grand Chapter at Jerusalem where- as a reward for his services - he created a prince Mason.

Grade Value
Amidst all it's limitations - which are those in form and manner, in part peculiar to itself and in part an inheritance from the Craft Degrees - the Royal Arch is a Grade of Speaking Symbolism, whereas the Prince Mason is merely a Masonic adaption of Scripture-history.
As such , it conveys nothing and marks no stage in the Emblematic art.
It constitutes the 33rd Degree of the Early Grand Rite and is an older recension of the Grade known as Order of The Red Cross of Babylon under the Grand Council of the Allied Degrees, and otherwise as Knights of Babylon.
The last connects with the traditional history of the Grade, according to which Darius is supposed to have instituted an Order of Knights of The East, changed afterwards to Knights of the Eagle, in Palestine to Order of Knights of the Red Cross, and known finally in France as Knights of the Sword."

So it would appear from the above that these may well be one and the same Degrees. The commentary in the encyclopaedia continues for about another 1 1/2 A5 pages covering the Knight of the Sword however the quote provided should be sufficient to confuse you for now.

Regards
Neophyte

This follows into the degree of the Holy Royal Arch. The significance of this degree in relation to this puzzle will become obvious as we progress.

According to “ Richardson’s Monitor of Freemasonry “ dated 1860 by Jabez Richardson ISBN 0-7661-0747-7

The following details are extracted from that book.

The society of Royal Arch Masons is called a Chapter and not a Lodge.
Only 3 candidates can be conferred this degree at a time. If there is only one then 2 companions must fill in for the other two. ( Note the similarity with Hiram Abiff and the other Two Master Masons who knew the secrets at the building of Solomon’s Temple – those secrets for which Hiram was killed in the MM degree) and at the destruction of the temple by Nebuchanezzaar , three Most Excellent Masters were carried captives to Babylon where they remained for 70 Years.
These captives were liberated by Cyrus King of Persia where they returned to Jerusalem to assist in the rebuilding of the Temple ( see linkage in previous degree Prince Mason)

Basically the degree progresses in a manner which replicated their journey over rugged terrain.
Here they come upon numerous Veils firstly approaching the Outer Veil of the Temple which was erected near the ruins of the Temple.
This tabernacle is an oblong square, enclosed by four veils and divided into separate apartments by 4 cross veils including the West end veil or entrance.

At the end of the tabernacle sat Haggai, Joshua and Zerrubbabel in grand council to examine all who wished to be employed in the work of rebuilding the temple. And hence that time this is the form of the chapter of Royal Arch Masons.

These three candidates progress through various trails and processes until they eventually become accepted for participation in the rebuilding work.

They are tasked with repairing to the North East corner of the ruins of the Old Temple and clearing away the rubbish in preparation for laying the foundation of the new temple.
They are charged with preserving anything of service to the craft and to bring it to the Grand Council. So off they go.
Firstly they find a ring in a trap door which they pull up and find it shaped like a key-stone of an arch. They decide to take it for examination.. they relate the discovery of the Key-stone and that below it there appeared to be an immense vault curiously arched.
They are instructed to continue as before and preserve anything found and present that to the council as before. They are instructed to examine the Vault they gave discovered.

Back at the vault they decide who is to investigate and lower that person by rope ( which is wrapped around them 7 times ) leaving 2 long ends. Pull with the left to go lower and with the right to ascend. They locate 3 trying squares.
They return to the council and report on their findings.

They return and continue their examinations. When they locate the Ark of the Covenant. It is as before removed and presented to the council.
The council determines that it the real article and decides to open it where they find a very ancient book. It is the Book of the Law – Long lost but now found.
Then a little pot is removed from the Ark. This is determined to contain the Manna. Next comes a stick with Buds on it which is determined to be Aaron’s rod.

Looking again into the Ark they find 4 pieces of paper which the put together to show a key ( This is of course the PIGPEN Cipher)

Using this key they begin to read the symbols on the 4 sides of the Ark.

Side One - Deposited in the year 3000
Side Two – By Solomon King of Israel
Side Three – Hiram , King of Tyre and Hiram Abiff
Side Four – For the Good of Masonry , generally, but the Jewish Nation in Particular.

We have now linked Freemasonry, Royal Arch, and Pigpen Cipher to the Puzzle.

I cannot determine at this point whether there is further linkage or if this is the extent of the connection.

Re: Constantine...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Come to think of it.... how did they ever get the substance in the first place? Like all of these things it raises more questions that one finds answers for.

Solomon's Temple is the connection but apart from that it has me thinking about the last clue.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Athanor : 03-02-2007

Herein may lie the connection or part thereof.

I hope this has in some way helped clarify some points.


Regards

Neophyte :cool:

[labbiel]

Hi neophyte,

thankyou for that information, it relates to what I have been researching lately also, especially in relation to the temple and Hiram. This is what I have come up with lately, although I'm still collating.

The staff forged on the sixth day of creation and engraved God secret name gift to Adam to Enoch, Abraham and Jacob to Joseph to priest Jethro (who was unable to yield it because he planted it in his garden) none could remove it - Only when Moses read the secret name of God did the staff yield from the ground. It is said to have been passed down the line of King David, supposed to of been a DIVINE SAPPHIRE STAFF. Disappears at the time of destruciton of King Solomon's Temple.


Enoch in possession of Golden Relic an Artefact that consisted of two interlocking triangels with the name of God Yahweh. They say Enoch also known as Hermes Trismegistus, Gilgamesh who travelled to land of Dead and finds a garden of trees bearing Blue Stones as fruit.

Enoch was said to have come from Anak (Nephilim) the canaano known as sons of Cain the beast lineage.

Moses declares sacred bird of Toth, the Ibis, taught citizens of Hermopolis how to use bird to protect against serpents.

Prometheus Known also as Lucifer - Serpent - Light bringer - Venus.
Rex Mundi = Lucifer = Gods second in Command

Hiram - Mothers side of the tribe of Naphtali his father a man of Tyre - Hiram King of Tyre (they were known as MASONS)

Tobit - Tribe of Naphtali lived in Nineveh

Naphtali - Fifth son of Jacob and Bilhah also mother of Dan.

Tribe of Naphtali - the standard of the tribe of Naphtali according to Jewish tradition is a serpent of Basilisk - assisgned territory in the North, in Galilee. Domicile of Mercury borne on flag of Naphtali

Bilhah Believed to be younger daughter of Laban (white), another story states she was daughter of Rotheus the brother of Deborah of the family Abraham Deborah grandmother of Tobit, she is said to be buried in the Tomb of the Matriarchs in Tiberias Israel. Also buried their Zilpah, Moses mother Jochebed, moses wife ZipporahMoses sister Miriam and Aaron's wife Elisheva burried in a tomb surrounded by a stone-wall.

Asmodeus from Nephilim his mother Naamah, sister of Tubal-Cain - linked to line of Cain.

Nephilim - descendants of Anak - Fallen angels offspring son of God builders of the tower of BAbel one of messengers of planet Jupiter - Angel of Wednesday (hermes and -= 3rd Heaven.

Third Heaven - Where Manna was stored or produced by angels bought by divine bees at the behest of Michael 3 rd heaven is dwelling place of John the Baptist as cited in the apocryphal attributed to James, 3rd heaven accomodates both paradise and hell with hell located in the northern side. Joseph was said to have been allotted 3rd Heaven.

Hiram believed to be descendant of Cain via Tubal-Cain -Known as the superior race only survivor after the fllod called Elohim (people of the fiery snake) or the shinning ones also known as the serpent people.

Tubal-Cain - Son of Lamech the cainite. He was instructor of artificers in brass and iron also Lamech = inventor of the harp.

They are siad ot have built the temple of Diana at Ephesus - known as Roman Collegia said to have worshipped the serpentine Bacchus.

Diana - Roman goddess Her temple a Ephesus regards as one of the seven wonders of the world. They say at Ephesus and only at Ephesus could you find the disciples of John the BAptist. Her temple was pulled down and the stones carried to Constantinaple for the Great Church of Saint Sophia. The stones of this temple also on exhibit in British Museum.

[labbiel]

Hi,

I thought I would also add the other theory I'm working on in regards to the Manna.
The information below comes from this web site: - [url]
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:3ZrTS7b59GMJ:members.aol.com/doestar/antichrist.html+moses+symbols&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=au

It covers some interesting aspects in regards to Alchemy and symbolic suggestion.

Egyptians regarded Copper with Eternal Life and is associated with Religious cross Ankh - Cooper,Silver and Gold share the same column on ther periodical table of Elements.

Jethro high priest of Midian taught Moses secret knowledge,Egyptian Mysteries School or what is better called the School of the Natural Orders. So my alchemy background has been looking at the chemical side of this puzzle. Evidently the area around Midian was a volcanic rift and that it intersected an oil laden land. It also formed a sulfur compound that became called Manna that collects in the cool night air and disappeared in the heat of the Sun and its UV radiation. Today, we know the special compound called Manna. Manna = DMS compound

So have looked at metals and reactions. Evidently Metallic mercury is very useful for gold mining it pulls the gold from rock.When one considers that gold is very non- reactive with almost everything naturally occurring but perhaps fluorine and mercury. The shape of the pyramids are shaped like Octahedron crystals relating to Fluorite and magnetite.

Gold ingestion associated wiht the gain of intellegence from lowering the damage effect of fluoride and mercury in the brain. So maybe Alchemistry's greatest secret from the Philosopher's Stone was the medicinal effect of gold in cleansing the body of these two damaging elements

[Athanor]

Hi Labbiel and Neophyte,

Some great research there.

For those who are interested in finding out a little more about Gold and philosopher's stone, look up Orme and Ormus. This seems to be the Alchemical solution. One is best to be cautious about the claims made concerning the products. I wish that I knew more chemistry and it is wise to be careful of the medical effects that this has on the body.

With Alchemy, the texts talk on several levels at once, physical, spiritual and chemical. Most of the time it is very baffling to understand.

Still, the task at hand is to find out how it is used. The Arc, Staff and Manna were not available to Flamel. So what was it that he discovered ??????

Athanor

[jlockest]

I didn't know what you meant by DMS Compound so Googled it and got this site:

http://members.aol.com/doewatch/jimphelps.html

Not an auspicious site.
Given the name and his play on it...who knows. Not sure if I know anything anymore (implication being that I did know something in the first place). Everything seems to be a play on the truth. Probably, some elements in the site are 'true', maybe not ....

[neophyte]

Labbiel,
May I add / expand on some of your points.

1. The staff forged on the sixth day of creation and engraved God secret name gift to Adam to Enoch, Abraham and Jacob to Joseph to priest Jethro (who was unable to yield it because he planted it in his garden) none could remove it - Only when Moses read the secret name of God did the staff yield from the ground. It is said to have been passed down the line of King David, supposed to of been a DIVINE SAPPHIRE STAFF. Disappears at the time of destruction of King Solomon's Temple.

There does seem to be quite a similarity here between this staff and Arthur’s Sword “Excalibur “. Wasn’t it only one that was “pure of heart “who could remove the sword from the stone.

2. Enoch in possession of Golden Relic an Artefact that consisted of two interlocking triangles with the name of God Yahweh. They say Enoch also known as Hermes Trismegistus, Gilgamesh who travelled to land of Dead and finds a garden of trees bearing Blue Stones as fruit.

Didn’t one of the parchments found by Berenger Sauniere in Rennes le Chateau read upon translation?

“ Shepherdess no temptation to which Poussin and Teniers keep the key peace 681 with the cross and this horse of God I reach this demon guardian at midday BLUE APPLES “
BLUE APPLES – BLUE FRUIT coincidence who knows.

3. Third Heaven - Where Manna was stored or produced by angels bought by divine bees at the behest of Michael 3 rd heaven is dwelling place of John the Baptist as cited in the apocryphal attributed to James, 3rd heaven accommodates both paradise and hell with hell located in the northern side. Joseph was said to have been allotted 3rd Heaven.

“The Book of Enoch “Enoch is 365 years old when whist asleep a great distress came over him. He was weeping with my eyes in sleep and he could not understand what the distress was or what would happen to him.
2 men appeared to him. Their faces shining like the sun, eyes burning bright, lips were fire and wing brighter than gold, hand whiter than snow. They called his name and he went with them.
He awoke and still they were there.
They took him to heaven.
In chapter 8 “Of the assumption of Enoch to the Third Heaven “

1. And those men took me thence, and led me up on the third heaven, and placed me there; and I looked downwards and saw the produce of these places, such as never been known for goodness.
2. And I saw all the sweet flowering trees and beheld their fruits, which were sweet smelling and all the foods borne by them bubbling with fragrant exhalation.
3. And in the midst of the trees that of life, in that place whereon the Lord rests, when he goes up into paradise; and this tree is of ineffable goodness and fragrance, and adorned more than every existing thing; and on all sides it is in form gold – looking and vermillion and fire –like and covers all, and it has produce from all fruits.
4. Its root is in the garden at the earths end.
5. And paradise is between corruptibility and incorruptibility
6. And two springs come out which send forth honey and milk, and their springs send forth oil and wine, and they separate into four parts and go round with quite course and go down into the PARADISE OD EDEN between corruptibility and incorruptibility.
7. And thence they go forth along the earth and have a revolution to their circle even as other elements.
8. And there is no unfruitful tree and every place is blessed.
9. And there are Three Hundred Angels very bright who keep the garden and with incessant sweet singing and never silent voices serve the Lord throughout all days and hours.
10. And I said “How very sweet is this place and those men said to me.

This place O Enoch is prepared for the righteous who endure all manner of offence from those that exasperate their souls who avert their eyes from iniquity and make righteous judgement etc etc.

There must be a few areas in the third heaven
A. The place of the righteous and compassionate
B. The terrible places and various tortures

They take Enoch to the fourth heaven after that where is the course of the sun and moon.

4. Asmodeus from Nephilim his mother Naamah, sister of Tubal-Cain - linked to line of Cain.
Wasn’t Asmodeus a devil, employed against his wishes by King Solomon to assist in the building of the temple in Jerusalem?
Didn’t the figurine holding the stoop for the Holy Water in the Church at Rennes also represent Asmodeus?

Regards
Neophyte

[labbiel]

Hi neophyte,

I had noted these stories, also (cross and this horse of God I reach this demon guardian at midday BLUE APPLES “) The horse of God could relate to the Tribe of Dan they also took the standard of the Tribe of Naphtali except they had the serpent and horse as their standard.

As regard Asmodeus yes he holds the stoop for the Holy Water. His name means "creature of judgment" and is derived from ashma daeva. He is also known as the talmudic Ashmedai - messenger of God, hence an angel, however being an opponent of Solomon and ruler of the South, he is regarded as an evil spirit and can be identified with the serpent who seduced Eve in the garden of Eden

There are two stories relating to Asmodeus one is that he was the son of Adam's first wife Lilith by Samael also in the Book of the sacred magic of Abra-melin the mage, some rabbins say that Asmodeus was the child of the incest of Tubal-Cain and his sister Naamah. In Solomonic legends, Asmodeus also goes by the name of Saturn.


The Sapphire was the foundation stone of the holy Jersusalem

[jlockest]

Anyone still out there?
Thoughts on latest clue? 'Nothing' as in the printed word in the book, one of the images without anything printed on its reverse side, zero...?

[Athanor]

I thought that it might be some hint to the King's chamber in the great pyramid, but I rather like your sugestion better.

I have had a look at the book, and the blank pages are just before the start of a new section. Perhaps that might be pointing to both Solis Sacerdotibus and Parce Signe Tu Le Vaincras as leads ???

Constantine would then be someone we had better scrutinise more closely.

[jlockest]

Did you ever look at the bindings of your original Maranatha book and the companion?
If the pages from the original book were meant to be removable, then maybe the two images with 'nothing recorded' on their backs are meant as overlays (ie you can just see through to the other side). Maybe that also could explain the --_______ style bar at the top of each page - maybe its an aid to line up the overlays?

[jlockest]

...or maybe it was where nothing was recorded....

Seems that the first use of zero was Indian...so maybe its saying look to India as the source of the first path?

[neophyte]

Anyone still out there?
Thoughts on latest clue? 'Nothing' as in the printed word in the book, one of the images without anything printed on its reverse side, zero...?

Yeah, we are still here.
I had hair when i bought the first book but i seem to have lost some along this journey.

I have looked at those blank pages as well. Held em up to the light to se if anything is visible and came up as blank as those pages. Damn this is frustrating.
From the clues page it states that " Some will be cryptic and some blatent"
Whats that " Blatently cryptic " or " Cryptically Blatent " .
I cannot say that any of them have helped me too much, if at all.

As for the book binding - well some book spines are glued and some are sewn and glued so i wouldn't spend too much time on that train of thought.

Back to the latest clue - should we be looking for the word " nothing " within the decoded text and be seeing what that is referring to.
It could also be a hint to start afresh because we seem to be reading too much into this and missing the obvious.
It has been said there are many ways to find the key but only one correct way and that it is solvable in one day.

Somewhere in the the Bible it mentions that " A Day to God is equal to a Thousand Years for man " I hope the writers of this puzzle are not working on the same time frames or we're stuffed.

[labbiel]

Hi Athanor

Quote
"I have had a look at the book, and the blank pages are just before the start of a new section. Perhaps that might be pointing to both Solis Sacerdotibus and Parce Signe Tu Le Vaincras as leads ???"

I agree the word "Sol is Sacerdot i bus" has significance maybe to who else was ascended and how the 681 fits in

[Athanor]

Hi All,

I would love to find even one way to the key Neo !!!!

There is so much info out there and so many possibilities that it is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. Being missled must be part of the secret's security.

Fixing the Volatile. I think that in order to get anywhere at all, we have to reject the nonsense and try to keep track of the solidified truth. Defining the truth is a problem in itself. The clues do not seem to give any disernable direction that I have been able to work out. I hope that you guys have had better luck.

Has any one tried regridding the pics to 13 wide and 12 deep to see if they can be overlaid better ?? From my efforts I do not see that it works any better. I have also made transperancies and had a play about...also no luck. The symbols seem to avoid any attempt to link together in any regular order so that they might be used to form a construction of some sort.

Lastly... while I still have my hair... I have to tell you that it is now much greyer !!! :eek:

Good luck every one !!

[Athanor]

I thought that it might be some hint to the King's chamber in the great pyramid, but I rather like your sugestion better.

I have had a look at the book, and the blank pages are just before the start of a new section. Perhaps that might be pointing to both Solis Sacerdotibus and Parce Signe Tu Le Vaincras as leads ???

Constantine would then be someone we had better scrutinise more closely.

I thought that something could have been NOT RECORDED by Constantine when the Canon of Holy srcipture was decided. These rejected books might hold some clues or be the first path to a solution ? Certainly we have all found these in references before while doing this puzzle.

[labbiel]

Hi All

Just thought I would share this information with you.

Flags: the oldest flags in Europe were not a flag at all, but the blue cape of St Martin, found in his grave by Clovis 1 of France and adopted as his banner. It was later carried in battle by French kings. Another non-flag was the royal standard of Persians, which for several hundred years until the Muslim conquers in the 7th century was a blacksmith's leather apron.

So the robe of Athanasisus has to represent a standard of flag especially when you notice the note above.

[labbiel]

Also in regards to the quote

“Shepherdess no temptation that Poussin and Teniers hold the key peace 681 by the cross and this horse of god I complete....."

It is interesting to note that Isaiah born 740bc - died in 681

[labbiel]

Oh When looking into standards and flags found this interesting
Extract from http://www.thevesselofgod.com/crosslorraine.html
"The Cross of Lorraine, the Fibonacci spiral can be super-imposed over it, the bars from which it is composed bear a golden division relationship to one another; the top horizontal bar is to the bottom as the bottom bar is to the vertical bar. And too, the elements which comprise the cross define two irregular pentagrams, both of which are central to the mystery of Rennes-le-Chateau. It is little known, but the Cross of Lorraine was also the official emblem of the Knights Templar.

Though they are more frequently associated with the symbol of the red equilateral cross, their true symbol first and foremost was the Cross of Lorraine, and many Templars awaiting death at the stake pursuant to the Friday the 13th persecutions drew the emblem on the walls of their cells. There is still a degree in certain rites of Freemasonry called the Knights Templar, whose symbol is the Cross of Lorraine. It is interesting to note that even the less esoteric-looking equilateral cross used by the Templars had essentially the same meaning: that of the union of opposites, the intersection of creative force and destructive force, or the union of male and female principles. It was a fundamental occult symbol, and it was in deference to the idea which it embodied that medieval occult rituals were often held at crossroads."

Also found this articles interesting: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_21.htm

Especially as I believe this puzzle has something to do with the Cain lineage.

[labbiel]

This is what I have been looking at in regards tothe book

First four scens page number 7,8,9 & 10 add up to 34.

Page 34 states - Look to the armoured king of Terror, she him cast away a pilgrams staff and take balanced shape of staff of death, a sword.
Picture 10 king is holding a sword and has cast away staff.

In the bible under Eph vi, 17 - "The sword of the spirit - which is the word of God"
(only chosen man who God ordained can wield the sword - this sounds like the story of Exculibar)

Added up sum of remaining picture 13,27 and 41 = 81 divide by 2 = p40

P 40 states: know this key will be like the great serpant staff

The great serpant is known as the guardian of the temple.

Through the secrets entrusted to the priesthood (The royal secret = the doctrine of the forgotton ones Cainites) and messengers of the divine share sacred design.
This could be the Cross of Lorraine.....this cross also represents the Mark of Cain and son of serpants.

Arc of staff of time (The cross with ball avove indicates spiritual pwoer is above the temporal (time) so time equals a cross.

On page 7 Time represented by hour glass and cross symbol and times scythe (this could relate to the Scythian people (Scythia) an ancient religion of SE Europe )
Time = child of the shepherd lands of Arcadia, it is also known as Chronos Saturn who is depiced with snake wrapped around him or as an old man or hourglass),

Child of Shephard lands could be referring to descndants of a family or people, so maybe we are looking for a standard of a family..

I have noticed on page 8,9 and 10 they all have shephards depicted, so I have noted what would stand out as a symbol of a standard e.g. Rose, Thorns, STream, mountain, flag, grail cup and sybmols above grail cup and what I have found interesting is that they are all representation of Cain. The secret Mark of Joseph can also relate to the Cain lineage as it is believed he descended from Cain.

Well that's where I'm at presently and I have had enough for now, going to enjoy the rest of the holiday, just thought I would post this information love to hear your comments on what everyone elses thoughts on this puzzle are at present and what areas you are all looking into too, would love to just have this puzzle solved.

[labbiel]

I have posted all the above on the twelve site as well

[Pendragon445]

Could the clues reference to "nothing was recorded" be a reference to the time before writing when everything was passed on orally?

I noticed today that in the pics of the innocents/king of terrors and the tree. that on the right side of the tree is a person holding a staff and looking right. In the innocents pic, there is a person holding a flag looking left. If you line up the pics so they're looking at each other, the horizon/landscape lines up as well.

I'm trying to relate the pics to each other, by elements of the pics as well as the landscape itself. No real insights from doing this, but seems something worth looking into...

[rrodning]

Also in regards to the quote

“Shepherdess no temptation that Poussin and Teniers hold the key peace 681 by the cross and this horse of god I complete....."

It is interesting to note that Isaiah born 740bc - died in 681

I have been lurking for a while...but...if you read p.18-19 of the text...look at the et in arcdia ego painting by both men and read it carefully...three shepards of arcadia, each carry a caduces (staff), refer to heel and toe

I have been playing with images and using shading to look for "hidden" images..

I also have re read all the posts and I think we are all thinking too hard...look at the front of the book....the bark of the tree...at the bottom...can you see a word

[labbiel]

What word?

[labbiel]

Hi All,

Noticed the second book is called the companion, so decided to see if Rosicrucians had a grade called companion.
Noticed that the master grade, that of companion had been produced by the indications given by Elias Ashmole. Also in high egyptian masony 3 grades exist 1. Egyptian Apprentice 2. Egyptian Companion or craftsman 3. Egyptian Master.

Also found reference to england known as the new Troy (troynovant - trinobantia) I noticed the words spelling Royston can constitute Troy so decided to look further into Rosicrucian and Royston, especially as there is a cave located underneath the central crossroads of the town where Icknield way cross ermine street.

Rosia's cross a link with the Rosicrucians, reference to a cave with a tomb therein.

Now I do believe lineage has something to do with this puzzle so I have noted that the marriage between Frederick V, elector Palatine and Elizabeth of Bohemia, daughter of James 1 of England was negotiated in the town (evidently James 1 had a palace just by the cross roads).

Now this marriage was important to the Rosicrucians, they saw it as the marriage of the Red Rose and (st George) Red Cross the Rose and the Cross. The flag of Bohemia is red and white and the shield of the rulers of Bohemia is red shield, white lion, crown, fleur, cross and 2 branches or twigs of a tree.

Frederick V father Frederick the 1V tutor was Bartholomaeus Pitiscus who introduced the word Trigonometry wrote five books on plane and spherical trigonometry sometimes credited with inventing the demcial point, the symbol separating integers from decimal fractions.
(Trigonometry - branch of maths which deals with triangles particularly triangles in a planes - the tirangle is 90 (right angle triangle)

Among the old symbols of Christ can be found the six branched star, that's the the double triangle of the 'Solomon's mark'. In fact in the symbolism of a very closed school to which 'Albert le Grand' and 'St Thomas d'Aquin' belonged, the right angle triangle represents Divinity,and the reverse triangle represents human nature"looking like God's picture' as his reversed reflect in the'mirror of waters' so that the union of the two triangles represents the union of the two natures

[neophyte]

Latest clue.

'The raised hand of da Vinci points to the growth of the secret

and the answer'

Yeah!! It's probably got 2 fingers pointing upwards and he aint signalling peace.

Am I frustrated with this or what.

[labbiel]

Hi,

In relation to the last clue, it may relate to Davinci's paintings.

Davinci had a fascination with John the Baptist and his last painting was of John the Baptist showing him with a half smile and pointing striaght upwards with the index finger of the right hand.

In Leonardo's work this is a sign always associated with John.

The disciple whose face is accusingly close to Jesus in the last supper is also making this gesture.

All these gestures are saying remember John.

In the first painting of virgin of the rocks Leonardo show Elizabeth as an important figure and her right hand is raised and she is pointing with her forefinger at her son John.

In the second version what is noticable is Elizabeth is now given much less emphasis in the work.

The works of Virgin of the rock and the last supper are mentioned in the timeline at the back of book one and also don't forget the leonardo drawing on the back cover.

So maybe John the Baptist line is what we are meant to be looking at. As supposely the first grand master of the templars was inducted into the jonannites (John the Baptist) and they reverend baphomet which some say the the symbol of the head of John the Baptist and as Elizabeth (mother of John the Baptist) was a descendant of Aaron's line all this can fit the story, just like every other snippet of information we are fed, but alas still no close to the answer.

[jlockest]

How about its to do with the pointing fingers pointing to a cross (John the Baptist) and that the cross didn't become 'Christian' until after Constantine...

See:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_symb.htm

It does seem odd (maybe only to me) that John is painted holding a cross, the Madonna of the Rocks is painted with Christ holding a cross. The symbol of the cross in Christain iconography with images of Christ/related to Christ before the crucifixion?

[labbiel]

Hi All,

Another bit of interesting information maybe the DaVinci points may represent something to do with a geometric object or starting point. Below is an extract from a quote by Da Vinci:-

Da Vinci elaborated on the relationship between painting and geometry He said, “the point is the first principle of geometry and no other thing can exist in nature or in the human mind from which the point can originate.”

"The principle of the science of painting is the point; second is the line; third is the surface; fourth is the body which is enclosed by these surfaces. And that is just what is to be represented...since in truth the scope of painting does not extend beyond the representation of the solid body or the shape of all the things that are visible".

So its interesting to note the virgin on the rocks has four people represented and Elizabeth is pointing, so if a shape is to be made from this, maybe its a matter of connecting the dots so to speak.

Also I thought was interesting the painting called Virgin OF the Rocks, it seems to indicate OF representing a place and Gilbraltar (the calpe of the ancients and one of the pillars of hercules) is commonly called The Rock . The rock, contains caves in which valuable archaeological finds have been made. It is honeycombed by defense works and arsenals, which are largely concealed. A tunnel bisects the rock from east to west. So is the title of the painting telling us something? Especially as the clue in the back of the book states on p45 "The Virgin of the Rock" THE SPECIFICALLY NAMED PAINTING which holds a message (which normally means written or verbal) of the painters initiation to an understanding.

Just some thoughts passing through my mind at present, would be interesting to hear what others are thinking at the moment.

[labbiel]

Hi Gys,

I thought you might be able to help me with this question.

Have you heard of the Iggeros Taimon? (mata taimon?) - the only information to date I have found relates to scholar monks and holders of secret initiations.

Also the zodiac symbol for pisces would you know why it would be called the execution key?

[Athanor]

Hi all,

Has any one been able to work this puzzle out ??

It will soon be two years and the only thing that is growing is wisdom. This might be the beast/serpent that is conjured??

Nothing might be a reference to meditation and in this state we can experience revelations. Enlightenment even.

[Athanor]

Labbiel,

Did you mean Heros Gamos?? I do not know if I have the spelling right but it is about ritual sex. It is described in the Da vinci Code. This is the divine marriage also know as conjuntio. Two become one, a sacred moment giving birth the the holy child. This is the Trinity in it's most profound sense. In short the miracle of life.

The bible mentions it too as being the time when we are closest to God.

Good luck !!!

[labbiel]

Hi Athanor

Well I know this site has been quite for a while but the cogs are still turning and many assumptions have come to past and are still being contemplated.

Since that last post of mine it lead me in a direction that lead to the assumption of Maranatha being an anagram:

Maranatha = Rama Natha - and this is the detail that I came up with.

Hosur was founded by King Rama Natha during the year 1290. He belonged to Hoysala Dynasty.

The Hoysala Empire was a prominent South Indian empire that ruled most of the modern day state of Karnataka between the 10th and the 14th centuries.

Early inscriptions, dated 1078 and 1090, have implied that the Hoysalas were descendants of the Yadava by referring to the Yadava vamsa (clan) as Hoysala vamsa

Yadav is an Indian caste that claims descent from the clan of Yadu. Yadavas have been mentioned as one of the ancient Vedic panchjanya tribes in ancient Dharmic texts.

Stephen Knapp seeks a connection between Yadavas and Jews. According to him, the Greeks referred to the Jews as Judeos, or Jah deos or Yadavas, meaning people of Ya or descendants of Yadu, one of the sons of Yayati.

Yadu is the name of one of the five Aryan clans mentioned in the Rig Veda.

Aryan is an English language word derived from a Sanskrit and Avestan word meaning "noble".
It was suggested that other words such as Éire, the Irish name of Ireland related to it.

Aryan relates to In Hinduism, Manu is a title accorded the progenitor of humankind, first king to rule this earth, who saves mankind from the universal flood. He is honest which is why he is called "Satyavrata", or with oath of truth.

So as you can see we can go in many directions. I will post three more threads with other directions I have been looking at presently. Somehow I think the thought processes we are going through will eventually lead to a completion it is just a matter of time!!!



Christine.

[labbiel]

Hi

Another interesting thought process I also had after watching the old movie The 300 Spartans (not the new one) other day. Was, it got me thinking about the Spartan symbol on their shield an inverted red V, evidently it repersents Lambda which i research on the net and came up with the symbol of power and unity, but I also came across and interesting article that details it as an ancient symbol of the scales of Justice - "Truth"
It is interesting that the sign of the compass on Freemasons etc. represent an inverted V, but does it hold a stronger significance, as to a true direction?

Just another thought process here.

Christine

[labbiel]

Hi

In regards to Iggeros Taimon I found a link to a chinese buddist Monk and in Sanskrit syllabary means Mata Taimon, In an extract from the Torah:
Prophets/Judges: As a foretaste of the fulfillment of the prophecy and I will return your judges as in former times and your advises as at the beginning in the age before Mashiach's coming we have been granted judges and prophets Iggeros Taimon to provide us with direction and guidance.
(Noted that a referenece to Judge ) relates to temporary authority in ancient Israel in the period between Joshua and the Kings to decide the result.
(Prophet) A person who advocates a new belief or theory spokesperson. One of the three canonical divisions (Monks) of the Hebrew bible.

but with all the information I then after much further research was eventually able to connect it with Rama Natha and Manu. Long process to get there, but just turned out to be a information gathering exercise and couldn't relate it to the puzzle.

[labbiel]

So back to the puzzle,..mmmmmmmmm................................ ..

I went back to my notes for ooooh the 100th time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway noted back in December I was plotting planet symbol from the little red book,

It is interesting to make the assumption with the address i noted the following:-

Symbols relating to Planets.

I set up 9 grid outlines and decided to plot each separate planet on its own grid, rather then have planets expressed as they were in the book.
I overlayed each of my grids over each picture and plotted on my graphs for each planet. I made my grid the same size as the picture scope.

I noticed the following

Earth sign - gave me the letter N
Jupiter - letter R
Venus Number 6 beast number halved = 3
Sun Number 2
Uranus number 4
Moon letter J
Mars letter G

which i noted related to the address

Priory Publications (GB) Ltd note the postcode
Postcode NR 32 4JG

Three names for it? Priory Publications (GB) Ltd mentioned 3 times on the page 2

i can't remember off hand what the other planet symbols represented, so I'm going back to review this information. Who know's where this could lead, but at least I think it may confirm the address we send the final solution to?????????

Christine

[labbiel]

LATEST ADVANCED HINT / CLUE! 30th June 2007

'The ancient Aztecs and ancient Asians knew the secret of nothing’

An assumption at this point as just noted the clue being posted, so this is purely a thought process without research at this conjecture in time.

So I'm taking the line the nothing has a symbolic meaning.

Nothing = zero

Nothing in calculations nought = zero 0 a cardinal number Zero can relate to cipher = a key to a code

Christine:headscratch:

[Athanor]

Hi Labbiel,

You certainly have worked hard on this problem. I must confess that I have been rather more lax and concentrated on the philosophies behind the clues. In the end one has to crack the code of this puzzle in order to win it but I find the conceptual aspects more rewarding.

An interesting slant is that after looking at page after page on the net on all these topics it tends to become one large black mass of half baked truths and misconceptions. This prima materia is reduced to nothing by the sheer confusion of it all. So from here grows wisdom and finaly produces the stone.

The main danger is that symbols have many meanings. What are all these beliefs pointing to ? We all have to find the golden thread that links it all togther and then do the decyphering of the puzzle text to send off our answers.

That is if we are can still be bothered. Perhaps the Priory are getting tired of waiting for us to find the answer. :o) All that I can say is that the process will make us all value the secret more than any reward.

Go well in your efforts. A

[labbiel]

Hi All,

He is a summary of my thoughts on the clues what are your thoughts about the clues?:popcorn:

Clue 15/10/2006 Blatant
17/11/2005 Cryptic –
Relates also to clue 29/05/2006 & 30/06/2007 SIS – Hermes identified with? Egyptian Thoth or Tehuti, who like Odin and the Mayan Votan, was held by his
Devotees to have been on e of the founder of true civilisation. The Egyptian Tehuti appears to be the same word as the Aztec Tecuhtil (meaning grandfather or lord, all these various legends of ancient founding-fathers of civilisation seem to derived from the same source. Quetzalcoatl the plumed serpent, descended to Earth as a crawling snake, his hand is a staff sprouting life, and he also carries the spear of the morning star. Thothmosis 111 founder of Rosicrucian movement in Egypt?
25/12/2005 Cryptic
26/01/2006 Blatant
26/01/2006 Blatant –
20/02/2006 Cryptic –
Icknield run with lay line St. Michael’s Line, St. Margaret’s church at Hopton just outside Lowestoft Suffolk. Cave at Royston lie on the lay line. Icknield = Iceni tribe of Queen Bodica in East Anglia. Cave located underneath the crossroads. Marriage between Frederick V, Elector Palatine and Elizabeth of
Bohemia, daughter of James 1 of England was negotiated in the town. (James 1 of England had a palace just by the cross roads. This marriage was important to the Rosicrucians as Frederick V’s claim to the throne of “Bohemia plunged Germany into the Thirty year was. Royston (Troy) the Tudor house = Red Rose Elizabeth family St. George = Red Cross – Frederick V’s family here was the marriage of the Rose and Cross. = Rosicrucian Order

19/03/2006 Cryptic –
The Standard of the land (standard now obsolete sense of a flag, is a corruption of ensign. = Royal standard of England which is incorporated with the Lancaster flag – red rose white background.

23/04/2006 Cryptic
-432 postcode in book NR 324JG also page v says dedicated to Father Paddy may refer to St. Patrick given baptismal name of ‘Patricius in 432 went to
Ireland.

29/05/2006 Blatant –
SIS – Sisyphus – mythical King of Cornith founded
the Aeolian dynasty. Aeloians – one of the four races into which ancient Greeks were divided, the sone of Hellen. Hellen is Greek mythology son of Deucalion and Pyrrha. Deucalion son of Prometheus – (Promethean serpents). Pyrrha daughter of Eplimethus and Pandora (First mortal woman) Pandora made by Hephaestus (Son of HeRA) god of fire and smithing, patron of all those who work with metals. Sisyphus = Sophos “Wise” is disc of the sun rises every day in the east and sinks into the West built Corinth at the latter end of the reign of Solomon. From the line of Sisyphus son Glaucus came Bellerophone or (Hipponous) tried to soar to heaven on winged horse Pegasus, Zeus anger made horse rear he fell to earth, where he wandered about blind and lame until he died. Alpheus – River God sone of Oceanus & Tethys tried to mingle underground with fountain of Arthusa on Ortygia (Oceanus elders of the Titans)
Arethusa – Daughter of Nereus and Doris – Nereus – sea god father of the Nereids (sea Nymphs) he is son of Pontus (Sea) and Ge (earth) he is represented as an old man and sceptre in hand.
Staff of Tiresias relic of Hermes. Tiresias a Theban seer. Caduceus – Winged staff of Hermes, gave the herald the power to fly. Originally a simple olive branch, it stems afterwards formed into two snakes twisted around it (myth is Hermes found two snakes fighting, divided them with his rod and thus they came to be used as an emblem of peace. The rod represents powers. Serpent – Wisdom, Two wings – diligence and activity. Pythagoras called the Pentagram Hugieia which translates to Health. Hugieia (Hygeia) goddess of Health symbol serpent drinking from a cup in her hand, she is the daughter of Aesclepius – his symbol the serpent entwined round a staff
29/06/2006 Cryptic –
Constantine had a dream of cipher of Christ the Hoc Vince - meaning by this sign conquer P and X through it. Also Greek letter Alpha (A) on one side of the Chi – Rho and Greek letter Omega looks like a W. Jesus said I’m the Alpha and the Omega the beginning and the end. Before the monogram of Christ, the Chi-Rho was the monogram of Chronos, the god of time and an emblem of several solar deities Mithras, Apollo, and Abraxas. Chi-rho used in alchemical texts to denote time. Chi-Rho is symbolic in the books of Kells. Nicolas Poussin features Chi-Rho in painting “Extreme Unction” 1644 own by Duke of Sutherland.
“Shepherdess, no temptation, that Poussin, Teniers guards the key, peace 681… Cathars once controlled Rennes le Chateau.
29/07/2006 Blatant
28/08/2006 Blatant
30/09/2006 Blatant
13/10/2006 Blatant
23/11/2006 Blatant – The red cross of Babylon in the English order of the allied Masonic degrees. Lesson on truth who are invitational body originally sponsored by the knight’s masons of Ireland. They are also known as the “Green Degrees” who are referred to as the Red Cross of Babylon. Based on the legend of Zerubbabel – Green knights = Knights of Kerry – Melchizedek Cloister emerald Order Maharata Texts – Eieyari priests priest of UR. St. Anthony true priest in the line of Mechizedek (Elohei – Elohim – Emerald Order)
30/12/2006 Blatant –
How the last is as important as the first – reverse the word and it says WHO – which relates to clue 28/08/2006 his story
28/01/2007 Cryptic
27/02/2007 Blatant
30/03/2007 Blatant
30/04/2007 Cryptic –
Leonardo’s last painting was ‘John the Baptist showing him with half a smile and pointing straight upwards with the index finger of the right hand. In
Leonardo’s work this is a sign always associated with John the Baptist. The disciple whose face is accusingly clue to Jesus in the Last Supper is also making this gesture. All these gestures are saying remember John ,John’s father Zacharias Mother Elizabeth. Elizabeth was the daughter of Aaron. John said to have spoke the truth.
30/05/2007 Blatant – Seal of Solomon is used to conjure the beast.
30/06/2007 Blatant – Peacock angel corresponds with Quetzalcoatl both were associated with the planet Venus which the Mayans called the Morningstar. Both Quetzalcoatl and the peacock angel are represented as a snake on the tree of knowledge.
'The ancient cAztes and ancient Asians knew the secret of nothing’
Nothing = zero Nothing in calculations nought = zero 0 a cardinal number this can relate to cipher = a key to a code
Ancient Mesoamericans, spanning from ancient Olmecs to Aztecs
The late Olmec had already begun to use a true zero (a shell glyph) several centuries before Ptolemy, possibly by the fourth century BC. This would later become an integral part of Maya numerals.

[DarkJedi]

I'm wondering where all the 23.5ers went to....

[neophyte]

LATEST ADVANCED HINT / CLUE! 30th June 2007

'The ancient Aztecs and ancient Asians knew the secret of nothing’

An assumption at this point as just noted the clue being posted, so this is purely a thought process without research at this conjecture in time.

So I'm taking the line the nothing has a symbolic meaning.

Nothing = zero

Nothing in calculations nought = zero 0 a cardinal number Zero can relate to cipher = a key to a code

Christine:headscratch:

Greetings all.

It's been quite some time since my last post and just as long since i last looked at this.
Frankly i was at the stage where i was over it - too many trails to follow, clues that didn't make sense or led one off on another tangent.
Beating my head against a wall whist listening to that little voice telling me it can be solved in a day and that you need no special training to find the key.
Remind me to ignore those little voices.

As for the last clue 'The ancient Aztecs and ancient Asians knew the secret of nothing’
could this be referring to the Urobolus

Urobolus is derived from the Greek word "Ouroboros", meaning, "devouring its tail". Ouroborus takes the form of a circle, a shape sometimes described as "the most perfect of geometrical figures" because it forms a complete separation between that which is inside and that which is outside, with one continuous line.



As such, both the circle and the Ouroborus are symbols of infinity and eternity - with every death comes a new life, where every destruction breeds creation.

If not that how about this . This is as i recall it. The transmutation process whereby the base material is changed or transmuted to a point where 40% approx disappears as light and the remaining material weighs nothing. The properties of this substance which from memory is a white powder which transfers it weightless properties to that which it touches. A reversal of the process returns the material to it's original state.

A bit like the snake swallowing its tail.
Did these Aztecs and Ancient Asians also know of this process.

Not long now and it will be 2 years since commencing this journey only 19 more to go. It did take Flamel 21 years remember.

Roger

[JR62464]

On the" Parchment of clues" It does state that Shugborough Hall holds MANY clues to the KEY of Et in Arcadia Ego. Should we be looking more here? I also have been working on this puzzle and Shugborough Hall is a very Interseting place. Also last months clue about Da Vinci points the way??? So many Paintings of his shows many pointing fingers, how many paintings of Da Vinci did he do with his self in the Painting? I know of one, The Last Supper, was there anymore?:headscratch:

[Athanor]

Hi all,

a quick search show that the true number is 616 !

Now you just have to work out who it is, but then again the number might have another purpose.

[hawklord]

I'm wondering where all the 23.5ers went to....
Hiya DJ

Yeah I was wondering that, too.

Mind you, I'm one of the ones that "went", as my connectivity collapsed in April when I moved across the hall and my wireless link to our central modem became savagely weak and intermittent. It changed my whole Internet approach to the world.

I've just plumbed in a Belkin range extender, and now I've got stable connectivity at long last!

Apologies to all Maranatha Puzzle fans, as I'm aware that discussing wireless modem connectivity is ever so slightly off-topic :headscratch:

[labbiel]

Hi All

I've been arond but working on another forum as well. It would be nice to get this foum up and running again as we seem to come up with some interesting thought processors that don't seem to go off track on this forum.

In regards to the latest clue this was my assumption:-

The number 3 indicates the beginning, middle and the END

the number 3 - In the number of the beast are 3 numbers? so maybe it not the numbers themselves but how many number indicated = 616 or 666 equals 3 numbers and number 3 encompasses the beginning middle and end the number 3 an be turned to make letter m or letter w and w represent omega and letter m for Maranatha

3 is very strong throughout the text e.g


Thrice-great Hermes
Three Worlds
Three Shepherds
Above, beside and below
Listen to 3 speak

The Rule of 3

The method of finding a fourth term of a proportion where three are given e.g.
if you take the number of the beast being 616
The numbers being such that the first is to the second as the third is to the fourth now what that would mean in regards to 616 is:-
By multiplying the second 1 and third 6 numbers you get 6 and dividing the result by the first, 6 divide 1 = O - NOTHING

Scholar. Scribe and Priest mentioned in warning page it states we need to have these abilities and these abilities represent the 3 R's

The 3 R's =
Reading - which is represented by the Scholar
Writing - " is represented by the Scribe
ARithmetic - represented by the Priest (mathematical knowledge
was essential to priests)

R is hightlighted in the name Maranatha it is also the third letter of Maranatha.

The text states know the key like the great serpent staff

The Caduces is a staff and two snakes which equal three items and the number 3 is known as the triple secret. The snake can look like the number three wrapped around the staff.

The number 3 also known as completion.

According to intellectual process the number 3 is the first uneven number, just as the first even number is 2 and number 1 being androgynous.

Number 2 represents the letter T
Number 3 represents the letter U
Number 4 represents the letter V

TUV (South Ashknazi) ( = 22 taw tav tov tuv mark, sign in the Hebrew alphabet

Old Testament prophets proclaimed that the faithful of Yahweh would be known by the mark of the Tau on their foreheads.
Tuv is the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet. As such, it speaks of finality,
the end. and the picture of the T is show in the LRB

Also noted that when rites performed linking the three worlds the Inovations for demons were made in specially constructed underground cave or chamber (reminds me of Royston cave) called Necromanteion oracle of the dead (Hades) the dimension of the one in Greece appear to be a room from which they were lowered on a winch down a 15 ft drop into a domed chamber, part natural, about 30 ft and from what Tom (gentleman on other forum) said appear to be similar to Royston Caves.

True - of a compassess bearing measured relatively to true north (according to the Earth's axis, not magnetic north) can also mean correctly positioned or aligned, upright or level. so true could be giving us the exact shape or exact shape of alignment.
Thinking of the Caduceus and snake I believe 33 (snakes) definately plays and 1(staff) so maybe the number 313

Christine

[labbiel]

Just to take it a bit further with the 313 the 3 already discussed but the 13 part of the number

Now if my memory serves me right - REvelation 13 talks of the beast and the number of the beast and the mark of the beast in the whole of REv 13. (I'm not a religious person but I think this is correct?)

Number 13 – Friday 13th Now I don’t think it was an accident that the priory put a clue up on Friday the 13th - October 13 2006 - Clue was:-
'Whether you began over a year ago or yesterday, it takes only a day to look and find the secret'

So the clue it takes only a day must refer to the day being Friday 13th.

Now this phenomenon derives from a logical mathematical process and can happen as many as three times in the same year. In the Hemerological table of lucky or unlucky Friday the 13ths, depending on the year for example

Now Hererology is an astrological system for identifying luck and unlucky days in the coming year. This science, whose first written traces were found in Mesopotamia in the middle of the second millennium BC, is still used in India and persists in China. When the first day of January falls on a Sunday which it did in 2006 the coming year was regarded as Neutral. The chaldeans, whose calendar comprised 12 lunar month every 6 years. During this 13th month all activates ground to a halt

The last supper 12 apostles shared his final meal with Jesus – Jesus being the 13th guest, then the resurrection 3 days. 13th seats at the round table (Arthurian legend)

Christine

[neophyte]

Just to take it a bit further with the 313 the 3 already discussed but the 13 part of the number

Now if my memory serves me right - REvelation 13 talks of the beast and the number of the beast and the mark of the beast in the whole of REv 13. (I'm not a religious person but I think this is correct?)

Number 13 – Friday 13th Now I don’t think it was an accident that the priory put a clue up on Friday the 13th - October 13 2006 - Clue was:-
'Whether you began over a year ago or yesterday, it takes only a day to look and find the secret'

So the clue it takes only a day must refer to the day being Friday 13th.

Now this phenomenon derives from a logical mathematical process and can happen as many as three times in the same year. In the Hemerological table of lucky or unlucky Friday the 13ths, depending on the year for example

Now Hererology is an astrological system for identifying luck and unlucky days in the coming year. This science, whose first written traces were found in Mesopotamia in the middle of the second millennium BC, is still used in India and persists in China. When the first day of January falls on a Sunday which it did in 2006 the coming year was regarded as Neutral. The chaldeans, whose calendar comprised 12 lunar month every 6 years. During this 13th month all activates ground to a halt

The last supper 12 apostles shared his final meal with Jesus – Jesus being the 13th guest, then the resurrection 3 days. 13th seats at the round table (Arthurian legend)

Christine

Hi Christine.

Some interesting trains of thought going on here. May i add the following

1. The clue posted on Friday October 13th was directly related to the day that the Knights Templer were arrested and the beginning of their outward demise begun.
2. The No 3 is again interesting because Freemasony consists of 3 Degrees or 33 Degrees depening on which Rite you are looking at.
3. At the Crucifiction there were 3 crosses bearing 3 occupants and if you like 2 were criminals and the other wasn't. So could the criminals reprersent 3 and Christ 1
4. The cock crowed 3 times
5. There were 3 wise men.
6. There are 3 in the trinity - Father , Son and Holy Ghost
7. 13 at the last supper and 13 in a coven
8. 3 approached the tomb after the resurrection
And so on.
Keep on puzzlin

Roger

[labbiel]

Hi Roger,

Yes the number 3 is everywhere in the book three mountain tops and also have you noticed if you turn the symbol on the front cover it takes on the appearance of the number 3

On Page 7,8,9 and 10 the four scenes we are supposed to find the key. Now what is interesting if you add up the symbols on each of these pages they all have 9 symbols per page and 3x3 =9 3 divide 9 = 3, that magic number 3 again.

Also the symbol on page 7 = 9
page 8 = 9
page 9 = 9
page 10= 9
page 13=11
page 27=10
page 41=12 the next number for the symbols would be 13

Total symbols = 69 divide by 3 = 23 I'm thinking its not the 23 its what it is divisible by 3........
so if you divide each number by 3 you get 9 = 3
10 = 3-33
11 = 3-66
12 = 4
So total symbol divide 3 = 23
and by dividing each total of symbols page the last giving you 4 you have the number 234

Noticed that two symbols appear nine times in the total of the pictures and these symbols are the male and female symbol, which I thought was interesting, I don't know if any of you are familiar with the Tarot, but the Devil (Beast) card in Tarot show a Male and Female attached to the devil by a golden chain so seems to be a connection there.

Now if you take out all the 9 male symbols and plot them on the grid you notice you get the number 3 and then

Take out all the 9 female symbols and plot them on the grid you get the number 6

Stopped here a couple of days ago, haven't had a chance to get back to the book yet.

Christine

[neophyte]

LATEST ADVANCED HINT / CLUE! 31st August 2007

‘Discover the word and write without a pen, to answer without a letter’

New clue - no idea

Just finsihed re- reading the companiaon book but nothing new.

I think we must go back to the original book. Somewhere in those first 4 pictures is something we are all overlooking.
I cannot see for the life of me anything what even remotely hints at where we go from here.

[madmonk]

anyone else noticed the word " Scaramouche" in bottom right of the pictures in the book. :headscratch:

Is it a clue?

[madmonk]

this worth a read.

http://www.themasterofspeech.com/shugboroughhall.html :wink:

[madmonk]

like to share this

in compainion guide pg 35 first paragraph , read it.
this painting by leonardo name " John the baptist"

http://www.keepandshare.com/photo/view.php?u=43466

followed the simple rules, eyes , pointing finger and crosses.

[Athanor]

Hi Madmonk,

I think that Scaramouche is the artist that did the illustrations. I can not find the signature on the entwined snakes though.

[Athanor]

Have a look at Mystae.com

Under the heading of John the Baptist. ( the Johannites) There is quite a bit to get through. The basic jist is that John the Baptist is the true mesenger and that Jesus is a false prophet. This sect is still alive today, some 20,000 members moslty in Iraq it think. They are called the Mandeans

[madmonk]

Hi Athanor

more i get drawn into this maranatha puzzle, more scared i get.

[neophyte]

dditional info.
Mandeans
MANDEANS IN THE MIDDLE EAST

Last column: % Mandeans of the population
Iraq 30,000 0.12%
Total *) 30,000 0.007%
Other countries 30,000
*) Calculated for the total population of North Africa and the Middle East, approx. 460,000,000.

The only surviving Gnostic religion, now with no more than 60,000 adherents, living in southern Iraq and southwestern Iran. Their main city is Nasiriyya.
They are often called the Christians of Saint John, as he is held as a very sacred person, but not indispensable, in their theology. Their name is Aramaic for 'knowledge', i.e. a translation from the Greek 'gnosis'.
There are two theories to their origins. They may either belong to a group emerging from Palestine, who were followers of John the Baptist. The other theory links them the the Sabaeans, originally from Harran region.
TEACHING and PRACTICE

John the Baptist is central in their teaching, as a representative for their faith. Jesus is also central, but he plays a totally different role than in religions like Christianity and Islam, and is a false prophet, almost depicted as evil.
The central religious book to Mandeans is the Ginza, 'Treasure', containing mythological and theological moral and narrative tracts as well as hymns to be used in the mass for the dead.
There are many other, less central books, mainly written in East Aramaic (or Mandean) as the language is also called. The content in these books varies, and many has magical texts and exorcisms. The collection of books started in the time of Islam, which differs strongly between 'book-religions' and other religions, and the Mandeans soon fitted in to the Koranic concept of 'Sabians' — the 4th 'book-religion', which can be translated to 'baptizers'.
Baptism is central to the cult of Mandeans, and the Mandean sanctuary, Mandi is a very simple and small house with slanting roof. In front of it is a pool which is connected to a nearby river.
The river is called 'Jordan' and is used for baptism. The whole area is surrounded by a high fence or a wall. Baptisms are performed on Sundays, and every believer pass through this several times every year. Mandean baptism can be compared to the Christian communion, and the Muslim prayer, salāt.
The other central ritual is the mass for the dead, with recitations form the Ginza. The soul is released from the body the third day after the moment of death. Meals are central in these rituals. Traditional Mandean graves are unmarked, as what is buried is only the dark body. But in modern times these customs have adjusted themselves to Muslim customs.
The ethics of Mandeans are not all too different from Jewish ethics and their laws apply to all Mandeans, man or woman, leaders or not. Monogamy, dietary laws, ritual slaughtering and alms-giving are all central acts.
According to the Mandeans, cosmos is made up of two forces, the world of light, located to the north, and the world of darkness, located to the south. There is a ruler to both, and around the rulers smaller gods, called kings. Between the two forces there are hostilities, and it is in the fights between the two that the world is created, but without consent the ruler of light. Man is created by the forces of darkness, but in every man, there is a "hidden Adam", the soul, which has its origin in the world of light.
Death is the day of deliverance, the soul leaves the body, and starts on a dangerous journey to the realms of light. It is only Mandeans and non-sinners who manages to pass the whole journey — everyone else end in hell. This hell is not everlasting, at the end of the world, a judgement is made on who will be wiped out for ever, and who will rise to the realms of light.



ORIGINS and HISTORY

The religion's origin is difficult to reconstruct, as there is so much unknown. They could be a continuation of traditions from Mesopotamia, or Palestine, or both. The Mandean religion could be pre-Christian, or it could date to 1st or 2nd century CE. It could actually be John the Baptist who founded the sect, or they could be a continuation of the Jewish sect that John the Baptist belonged to (guessed by some to be the Essenes).
However, elements of their language indicate that the community is of Jewish origin.
One of the texts of the Mandeans tell about a flight of a group called 'Nasoreans', from areas that probably were in today's Jordan, to the Mesopotamian region, in the times of the Jewish wars following the destruction of Jerusalem in year 70 CE. The Mandeans appears first to have gained a strong position in Babylon, but lost this with the appearance of the Sassinids in year 226. In the time of Mani, there have been contacts between him and the Mandeans, resulting in both love and hate.
With the arrival of Islam in Iraq in 636, the Mandeans were considered as the third 'people of the book', as the mysterious Sabians of the Koran.
But the Mandeans still faced a difficult relationship with Islam, and Muhammad is in their writings called the 'demon Bizbat'. The Mandeans moved from the cities to the marshlands in Southern Iraq. It is first in modern times that the Mandeans have moved back to the cities, especially Nasiriyya, Baghdad and Basra, where many of them work as gold and silver smiths, iron smiths and boat builders.
Mandeans are also found in medium-sized towns between Baghdad and Basra. Some small groups of Mandeans even live in Iran, in cities like Ahvaz and Shushtar in the southwestern corner of the country.
Today Mandean theology is seriously threatened, as recruiting new priests is difficult, and many offices are vacant. Mandean laymen are often highly educated, but know little of the old language and the scripts, and they attend ceremonies only seldom, as in weddings. Yet, there is a strong feeling of pride of their heritage, and they often claim to belong to a religion older than Judaism, Christianity and Islam.


© Copyright 1996-2007 LexicOrient. All rights reserved
By: Tore Kjeilen

[Athanor]

The more i get drawn into this maranatha puzzle, more scared i get.[/QUOTE]

I have been looking at this puzzle for nearly two years, for me it has its moments and at other times it is quite infuriating !!!! I know that I am the wiser for it but I am afraid that I still have yet to crack the puzzle. I have learnt not to trust all that I read. There are so many religious stories nearly all of them with no proof at all. The most important thing is what they are trying to tell us. The puzzle takes one through an amazing journey of nearly every wierd and wonderful tale and theory that you can imagine. The only goal that I can see that runs through all of it is the quest for eternal life. The Grail.

What then are the important pearls to be found ?? This is much more interesting for me to follow than trying to crack the code in the text.

Still, work on the text is the only way one can get to the prize.

good luck Madmonk !!!!!

[Athanor]

Hi Neo,

Thanks for the additional info on the Mandeans.

I think that the latest clue reveals how we are to reply. One can write with a keyboard and not a pen. One can send an email rather than a letter.

The email must contain the word, and end with the true number of the beast.

It all sounds so simple I wish I had more of an idea as to what it is.

[madmonk]

yea its been a journey so far, seem to be undoing my belief system. And replacing with whats in pages. i do Not know actually what it is doing which is the scarey part.

another thing I keep coming back to .

bloody arcs and archs
Arcadia link to constellations ursa minor & major. and running between this constellations is draco a serpent like constellaion.

Archs in drawings.
Everytime i see ARC as in arcadia i think of and arch or like a bow. drawing me crazy.
Arc of the scythe in the drawing on page 7,

theres a Arch about jesus in the painting of the last supper by leonardo.
just cant see the link. maybe there isnt one. <cry>

[madmonk]

i always thought you need to find 3 things. And this is based on the warning at front given by nicohlas flamel.

The Word
The Key
The seal

says it quite clearly

[madmonk]

and another thing

has any found out what that symbol is on the front cover?.

[madmonk]

http://www.esotericarchives.com/dee/monad.htm#theorem1

this is symbol use by International Guild of Alchemists.

[JR62464]

and another thing

has any found out what that symbol is on the front cover?.
I think I know what this front cover symbol is, Its not what one may think but to me it does look like this.

http://www.innervision.com/mysteries/cathars.html

Ok you will see the Dove carved out of a rock. This dove was a symbol of the Cathars. Notice the front cover of the LRB, Its a symbol that looks to be cut out from a rock. It does not appear to have this exact shape dove, because they have taken it and changed it to look more like a double edged sword, Duelist. This plays a big part in this puzzle. The Cathars were Duelist as far as what they believed. You have to study them. They are mentioned twice in the Timeline of the LRB.
an beings there is a rock like formation on the front cover of the LRB, then this is the trail I have taken. now some say its a Masons Hammer or a Bat like symbol, which yes it does take on this apperance at times but I see the Dove in this carved symbol,right out of that rock. Now this is my opinion only. others may see it as something else.

[JR62464]

Hi Athanor

more i get drawn into this maranatha puzzle, more scared i get.

This is another thing. you can`t feel this way while doing this puzzle it will just make things more complicated for you. there is really nothing to be afraid of. as far as for your belief being shaken alittle, I look at it this way, from what I had been taught growing up and from what I am learning now, I feel this book is going to do nothing more then lighten you up alittle and seeing things in a way you never have. Rememeber, The truth will set cha free!

[Athanor]

Hi Madmonk,
re arc and arch,

Have a peep at the Masonic degree of the Royal Arch. You will findmore background. Perhaps the discoveries made at Solomon's Temple by the Knights Templar were incorporated in these rituals. Templar...Cathar ???

The arch over the paintings of the Virgin of the Rocks is just a common artisitc compositional device, I would be very surprised that it means more than that.

The last Supper has a secret message too. Cathar inspiration?

The people who commisioned the art were very cross, that is why we have a second painting of the Virgin. Very handy to be able to compare the two and work out what pissed them off !!!! That John the Baptist again.

[Athanor]

and another thing

has any found out what that symbol is on the front cover?.

Certainly a styalized M for Maranatha. A dove would be neat as it would be a representation of the Holy Spirit but rather unlikely. However this is depicted the wrong way up, it should be beak pointing downwards decending from the heavens.

An Axe ??? does this symbol have any connection with anything one has read ???? I find this hard to fit into the pattern of clues.

Symbols take their meaning from the situation that they are found in. The situation defines what the symbol means. A sword can mean Justice, the Holy Spirit, Death, St Paul etc etc. This is why it can be very confusing.

The cross shape of the cover symbol seems to me to be a good feature too.
A bat is the symbol for confusion and darkness so this could fit as well.
Perhaps the highlighting of the symbol on the companion book is a neat reference to throwing some light on the puzzle we have before us.

It is very easy to start to read things into a situation that were never intended and continue that avalanche of half truths, fact filled lies, and sheer nonsense.

You are right to go back and re read the books. I know that I have missed parts that are important and it has only been with new knowledge that I can see their relevance. I keep asking myself..." What is the Golden thread that links all these stories together ?" The one thing that has been retold throughout our religious history.

[madmonk]

oh my god!!

i think i know what the link is between all the storys. Its midnight as i type this i was lying bed.just had to get up and type.
I need to look into it, but storys are actually talking about a mystical process. Each story is a process.
ie
joesph is lower selfs , he did bad things and had to leave on a journey. On journey he had dream about the ladder 7 steps (the journey we must take to unlock our 7 seals,chakra points,seven steps in alchemy to reach heaven) .
But he actually marked in the real world where he had the dream, with an altar. very strange.


Why is king solomons temple described in such detial?
the only place i have seen descriptions like that is when you need to build it in your imagination. ie for magic purposes.

enoch,elijah and jesus are examples of completion of the work (i talk in alchemist terms here)

symbols speak to our subconscious mind. why they are so powerful.
qabalah was around in these times i believe.
have to go back to bed. very tired.

[madmonk]

Job from the bible was tested by satan on wager between God and satan. AS we progress up the spiritual tree we will be test like Job was. But satan can not destroy souls its a persons free will that decides. God or satan will never break you. can you take the load or will you snap.

Jospeh is related to Yesod node in qabalah and his multi coloured coats reflects the ego.

in book of enoch there are detailed descriptions of heaven. quote from source matrerial.These accounts were naturally influenced by the culture that the visionary lived in. Here we have the blend of the subjective and objective in as much that the world of creation has no form, being primarily a real of pure enegry. . How ever in order to perceive that world it is necessary to clothe these patterns of force and arch anglic entities in an intelligible image for the psyche. Thus the consciousness of the visionary uses what is already available in the memeory which has an enormous bank of personal and collective imagery to draw upon. This is why each age and every mystic has a slightly different version of the upper worlds.

here what is said about jacobs ladder:
according to kablistic tradition existence unfolds in the form of grand design. Firsrt manifestation emereges from nothingness into a void, which is then filled by the will of God in the appearance of the sefirot, which in turn organise themselves into the Tree of life that contains all the principles of manifest existence. Out of the primal instrument of Divine government emerge the three lower worlds of creation formation and action. These decend in an ordered impulse of consciousness, enegty and materr to create, form amd make the great ladder of jacob strecthing between the first Keter of total unity to fullness of multiplicity at the bottom most Malkhut.

i think the knights templar are suppose to have raided solomons temple and found a secret (some say the holy grail). The knights templar in braced qabalah. Solomon is linked to qabalah too.

[madmonk]

http://www.joshuah.org/Steps/Articles/KeytotheMysteries.html

[Athanor]

Hi All,

Have a look at this well writen article: www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/d/devil_and_the_pathology_of_history.html

Aaron Ross puts down many thoughts that we have been having on our search to answer this puzzle. Nearly all of what we have been taught to believe is wrong. I came upon this when I was searching the history of the Devil. It is clear that the religions have developed over the ages along with our history, understanding, and politics. To interpret these writings at face value is the very height of naivety.

You will find reference to some of our other aquaintances along the way, such as Seth, Osiris, Lucifer and the everpresent underground stream of Gnosticism.

Have you ever wondered about the fact that the more people say that they love God, the nastier they are toward others ??? Where we do not accept our own faults and evil actions we can easily project them onto others. Witness the actions of our governments in the fight against terror and evil, do you think that we are starting to behave like the people we accuse of evil ???? The meaning of the story about the Fall of Lucifer is revealed.

Enjoy the read.

[madmonk]

interesting article. The world is very confused about devil/satan.(Hebrew for satan is "tester"). We must confront our own inner demons, journey in to are dark underworld (Hades).

Alot people are confused by how many parts make up Man. In alchemy, Man has 3 parts, higher self, the spirit and the underworld. The higher self and the underworld have no connect , each is seperated from each other.
The spirit can par-take of either of these parts ie the 2 paths. To raise one self to higer level of spirituality we must spiritualise are own underworld and the spirit, ie bring it to the light/higher self. And how can we do this if we dont understand true nature of the devil.

This passage from the companion guide,Titled Rex Mundi, pg 128-129.
" It is trough peotic representation that the actions of the laws of creation and the gift of human free will puts the events of the world in the hands of the elements of the world and the effects of the individuals of the planets"

this little passage which i often skipped over or never really noticed until now. Is truely profound.

The King of Terrors- King of the Eath? Is the devil the god/emporer of material world we see and touch? cathers thought so.

[madmonk]

why in that passage from Rex mundi does it refer to elements of the world and the effects of the individuals of the planets

check these youtubes out. theres

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlbIYTjeQP4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU4J0QBqQ5w&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVFdzHrWr1Q&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KHmWQrPps8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWhsubd_4lE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QLZ90nj1n4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoFY2PKzDME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFBFpDzxtrg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXOmEgMqD0o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzsKPpb6714
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAubYM6Lq-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LQ8OtMbqE8

[madmonk]

pg 45 of the companion "book of the bee"

heres the book fyi

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/

[madmonk]

like to share this i think kind fits together just bit to well.

pg 25 of companion

"Shepherdess no temptation that poussin and teniers hold key."
ok lets say im right from my post about right angle triangles inthe pictures

"peace 681"
companion guide gives us a date 681 ad very good

"by the cross and this horse of god i complete this guardian"
to be honest kind stuck on this, there is a horse with a cross just under it belly. not sure how this fits in yet.

"at midday blue apples"
nows the fun bit if you get a free software program called stellarium you can set the date and location and show the constellation at that time. Guess what? set that time year (681 ad and location rome an at midday what do you get , you a constellation call "triangulum"(right angle triangle) and whats that i see group star that look like bunch of blue apples,better know as "pleiades". come on this cant be coindence

this very interesting. Constantine had a dream to use greek letters Rhi and Chi on his shields to be victorus in battle and what do we find in tarus the bull constellation Rho Tauri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rho_Tauri) and Chi Tauri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_Tauri) as well as pleiades.

please someone tell me i am not dreaming this up?

[Athanor]

Hi Madmonk,

I have had a look at these links that you put up. Very interesting, these were made in the 1990's. (Fashion can be very fickle, hehehe.) I am not sure what this group of people are about but I assume it was posted to counter the Illuminati's efforts. Informative enough and their aim of removing the ignorance that blind faith brings is laudable. This aim seems to be the same as that of the puzzle as I see it.

Most of these topics discussed really require a lot of careful research and back ground to navigate through without coming to grief. We as amaters have to take their authority until we know better ourselves. Simple things can very easily be turned around to mean something quite different altogether.

Symbols vary in their meaning according to their comtext and to the period of use. All of us must keep this in mind.

Eg. The red that the Cardinals wear is in fact scarlet and not red. This is a colour of authority, scarlet was reserved for princes and so reflects their authority. Cardinals are the princes of the Church. The meaning has undergone a recent change, equating it with the blood that they are willing to shed in defence of the faith. Scarlet has never represented blood, a deeper red or better still blood red is the appropriate colour. Today the politics of the church have changed and so a new meaning has been put forward that better benefits the Church. Nothing underhanded here, only change.

With this in mind I wonder about some of conclusions shown in the links.

[Athanor]

Hi All,

If there is any secret that has been hidden in plain sight it must be that all religions are related. I am sure that religion is a projection of the human psyche. Perhaps eternity only exists in the mind of the living ??? The Gods and Deamons are in fact just parts of ourselves.

There are so many clues that lead in so many directions in this puzzle, they are more a hinderance than a help. They have forced us to think and look at many things. I have been unable to see how they connect with one aim other than to encourage us to use our intellect.

Go well.

[JR62464]

http://www.computours.net/cathar/

This symbol is what appears to be on the front cover.... its in a duelist style shape. like a double edge sword. Notice how on the front cover, the symbol is cut out of a rock. I`ll bet the puzzle right now this is going to lead you to the Cathars.
This puzzle has got Cathars and thier Duelist religion written all over it. Manichaeanism is one of the earliest religion. look up " Mani" an the " Minne" :popcorn: Amor!

[JR62464]

LRB page 10 notice the Black an White flag that the little man is holding.
http://www.geocities.com/~divisiontheory/templars.html
:popcorn: it fits in right with the Templars/ Cathars Duelist religion.

Page 8 LRB
http://home.c2i.net/monsalvat/rebirth.htm

see that symbol, top left corner?

[JR62464]

I find this web page really good.

http://home.c2i.net/monsalvat/rebirth.htm

At the end of seven hundred years, the laurel will be green again

[madmonk]

Hi guys

i know what you mean athanor somethings they link in the videos i didnt believe.
But i just took the main idea away from videos and dropped rest.But i agree it is all to easy to be thrown off course.

from reading the greek storys and early roman pagan religions. Where God upon God would take the throne of heaven , how can this be there is only one God?
and each God had a devil/dark counterpart.

The serpent renewing it self by shedding it skin can be seen by new Gods coming in to power in heaven and this eternal battle bewteen Good and Evil.

Could this be man been recarnated , with each carnation (a new God in us and evil) to start the timeless battle bewteen Good/Evil starts again.

think your right jr62464 about the dual nature of mans soul.
I believe man does have a dual soul (higher and lower part , good and evil) To raise our selfs up ie become enlighted we must accept are lower/evil side. How can you do that when according to catholic religion devil/lucifer is external to you?

you cant its impossible. I need to have look at Cathars what they are all about.

[Athanor]

[QUOTE=JR62464;82187]http://www.computours.net/cathar/

This symbol is what appears to be on the front cover.... its in a duelist style shape. like a double edge sword. Notice how on the front cover, the symbol is cut out of a rock. I`ll bet the puzzle right now this is going to lead you to the Cathars.

It seems only a short step to go from one symbol to the other. From Dove to change it enough to look like an M for Maranatha. If the dove be black then it can represent the feminine.

I really like the twin soul aspect and you have solved the mysterious flag.

Great work.

[madmonk]

been reading about few things about chathars and gnosis , starting to make some sense ie why there been so many gods.

God is known as the Monad, the One, The Absolute. The Monad was the highest God which created lesser gods.So gods like zeus and god in old testament are lesser gods created by the monad.

Humans are divine souls trapped in a material world created by an imperfect spirit, the demiurge, who is frequently identified with the Abrahamic God. The demiurge, who is often depicted as an embodiment of evil, at other times as simply imperfect and as benevolent as its inadequacy allows, exists alongside another remote and unknowable supreme being that embodies good.

[madmonk]

[QUOTE=JR62464;82187]http://www.computours.net/cathar/

This symbol is what appears to be on the front cover.... its in a duelist style shape. like a double edge sword. Notice how on the front cover, the symbol is cut out of a rock. I`ll bet the puzzle right now this is going to lead you to the Cathars.

It seems only a short step to go from one symbol to the other. From Dove to change it enough to look like an M for Maranatha. If the dove be black then it can represent the femine.

I really like the twin soul aspect and you have solved the mysterious flag.

Great work.

Gospel of Thomas:
"Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you
make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside,
and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the
female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the
female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye,
and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and
a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter [the
Kingdom]."



agree, in alchemist terms man has the higher self/sun/light/male aspect at top/crown of his head and lower self/moon/dark/female aspect at base throught the alchemical process you join/marriage the two to make one.

often heard that everything in this world must be dualist by nature. ie nothing can be reborn with out male or female part. agree some creatures or plant have both sexes with in them but its still male an female.

[Athanor]

Perhaps it is not necessarily Good and Evil represented by black and white.

Think more along the lines of Masculine and Feminine. Reason and intuition

The Beauseant.
Black above White. In the sacred sex rite the Woman stradles the Man. Interesting to think of it this way too. The process of the mystical union in Alchemy also comes to mind as being the same thing. The feminine (black) subconcious, united with the Masculine (white) concious. This is the Chymical Wedding of alchemy.

The union of these two parts of our psyche to produce something profound ( the Holy Grail or Philosopher's stone) this is the secret. In a word... Enlightenment.

[Athanor]

Look at Da Vinci's Man in a circle and square, faintly depicted on the back cover of the book.

As you have said of the square and compass, a circle for feminine and a square for masculine. Another depiction of the union of the two opposites. The androgony that Leonardo was so famous for also fits with the dual soul/spirit belief. We know that he also had Cathar leanings if not then he was a Cathar.

[Athanor]

Thanks JR62464

In your reply# 205 you have the same link as reply #204. Is this right? The other links posted have been very helpful.

Thanks Madmonk

The Gospel of Thomas is spot on. Not an easy read but now it makes more sense in this light. This must be about the secret teaching of Jesus then. Dualism.

[JR62464]

Thanks JR62464

In your reply# 205 you have the same link as reply #204. Is this right? The other links posted have been very helpful.

Thanks Madmonk

The Gospel of Thomas is spot on. Not an easy read but now it makes more sense in this light. This must be about the secret teaching of Jesus then. Dualism.

Oh you are right, My Bad! I did mess up that link. I meant to put in this link about the Cathars ( I have such a connection with these people, I love em)
http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/Gnostic%20Cathars.htm

Now, I am going to tell ya something else, This is why they want you to submit a poem with the solution to the puzzle. The Knight Templers when they were to become templars went to the Woman and they had to recite a poem, whoever had the best poem that suited the woman he was chosen to become the next Templar. Its a really good story I found in a book by Otto Rahn . read his material and The Swastikia. This symbol is the most Ancient symbol there is. Theres so much you just have to study it. The Honeybees have to do with what I had posted on another forum.

<of a MALE bee: 1 2 3 5 8
of a FEMALE bee: 2 3 5 8 13
0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987 ..
As you may or may not know, the Fibonacci sequence is one of the major chords played by Nature in her symphony. Everywhere one looks there is the sequence displayed: view the construction of sunflowers, pinecones, pineapples, artichokes, apples, lemons, chiles, starfish, sand dollars, the iris, buttercup, daisies, and you could go on and on.
It is the proportion of living things. One author gives this definition: "The Fibonacci sequence actually begins with two terms, zero and unity, nothing and everything, the Unknowable and the manifest Monad. These are the first two terms. Their sum, another unity, is the third term. To find each next term, just add the two latest terms together. This process produces the endless series 0,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144 … At first glance we see a chain of numbers. But look beyond the visible numbers to the self-accumulating process by which they grow. The series grows by accruing terms that come from within itself, from its immediate past, taking nothing from outside the sequence for its growth. Each term may be traced back to its beginning as unity in the Monad, which itself arose from the incomprehensible mystery of zero.>

and remember, Napolean took the Honeybees from Daoberts Sons tomb, I`m pretty sure. He Adorned his robe with them. I was trying to make some kind Of connection here with him, have more to study on this. As for Nostrdamus, He was a Cathar, or Accused of being a Cathrs I believe. That Michael,( In the Puzzle from the Shepards land,) is Michael Nostrdamus. :popcorn:
back to puzzlin. Is this not so much fun!!!

[JR62464]

I had another really good link here to show you... This is about the Book of Love the Cathars where to of had amoung them but no one knows for sure what has happen to it.

Elizabeth van Buren also writes in The Secret of the Dove: "In 'The Secret of Mont-Ségur' we learn that there is a book in existence, a book that had been guarded and preserved by the Cathari, a manuscript which lies in a leaden casket in the depths of a cavern....The manuscript is called 'The Book of Love'....This manuscript is attributed to St. John the Divine, and is said to contain: '....sublime teachings, marvellous revelations, the most secret words confided by our Lord Jesus Christ to the beloved disciple. Their power would be such that all hatred, all anger, all jealousy would vanish from the hearts of men. The Divine Love, like a new flood, would submerge all souls and never again would blood be shed on this earth.' It is said that this book will be found, at a 'pre-ordained time, by a predestined person'. Furthermore, it states in 'The Secret of Mont-Ségur', that this predestined person, 'a being of perfect candour, innocence and absolute purity', will be 'UNDER THE SIGN OF THE DOVE'. It is not generally known that the Dove was the symbol most revered by the Cathari...Indeed, the Cathari were called the 'Faithful of the Dove', the 'Friends of God'....The Dove symbolized the Comforter, the One who would bring peace to the world one day. In the ancient Mysteries the Dove was the symbol of the third person of the Creative Triad, the Trinity....If one accepts that the precious treasure of the Cathari was the Lost Gospel of St. John, it should be noted that the true name of the Dove is Ionah or Iönas (Jonah). John the Baptist, the forerunner of Christ, was called Ioannes, and the Apostle of Love, author of the Fourth Gospel and the Apocalypse, was called Ionnes, in Greece. So, for the Cathari the Dove might have been, not only the symbol of the Paraclete or Holy Ghost, but also the emblem of 'The Book of Love' itself, written by Ionnes, John the Divine." As previously mentioned, could this be the hidden Grail text alluded to by A.E. Waite?

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:r6FfGDi--JMJ:www.sacredconnections.co.uk/holyland/johannine.htm+cathari+dove&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2

[JR62464]

The Minne is the Grail!

[Athanor]

Thanks for the link JR.

[madmonk]

cant believe i missed this it was right under my nose.

the cathar and templars are Gnostic. or Gnosis . Gno.. SIS (the same as spelling MoSIS). 2 serpents around the rod. you right jr62464. thanks for the link ill have a read.

john the baptist was a gnostic as well.

:D those damn Fibonacci numbers they drive me up the wall lol.

[madmonk]

jr62464:- you got any links to minnie?

[JR62464]

I will post more later tonight. and its MINNE aka search MANI= Manichaeism.
The MINNE is the Graal. put that search in. I have to go to work. I`ll tell ya more tonight.

[JR62464]

http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/rahn.html

This tells the story of Otto Rahn.

The dove was the Emblem used by the Cathars to designate God Spirit. The Cathars Sculpted a Dove in the rocky wall of one of the caves of the Sabarthes. A Dove was depicted on the shield of the Grail Knights.:popcorn:

[JR62464]

http://www.gadal-catharisme.org/page_10_112_en.htm

This also is a good story. You all need to read it..:popcorn:

http://www.gadal-catharisme.org/page_10_102_en.htm

Do you see whats going on yet?

[JR62464]

http://www.gadal-catharisme.org/page_3_en.htm

Make sure you read this one...

[Athanor]

Gadal and the Cathars,

Here we have an interpretation of the Cathars and the mystical aspects of Christianity. It is just one amoungst all the others. How helpful this is I am not sure, but I think that it is likely to confuse more than help most people.

Gnosis is through personal experience and revelation. Because of this there will be many aspects....far too many to number. Their relevance then is to the person who has had the vision. The likelyhood of that being a good fit with others is therefore small.

Remember that the Cathars had many congregations, each group had their own slant on faith but still being able to recognise each other. The basics are important, the rest really does not matter.

[Athanor]

Gnosis,

This is the underground stream. It is the thread that has gone through history, the secret society, invisible college, the Rosecrucians, Alchemy. In fact any mystical revelation that is experienced directly by the person.

Yes it is true....GOD does not need to deal through a Church or booking agency, good seats can be obtained directly. Rather nice to know eh???

[madmonk]

jr62464

are you talking about the return of the cathars/templars?

wonder why they said 700 years :headscratch: . All i can think of is dawn of new age of Aquarius.

[neophyte]

http://www.gadal-catharisme.org/page_10_112_en.htm

This also is a good story. You all need to read it..:popcorn:

http://www.gadal-catharisme.org/page_10_102_en.htm

Do you see whats going on yet?

" In the ancient initiation traditions, the cubic stone has always symbolised the Work to be accomplished.

From a ‘rough stone’, the candidate to the Mysteries carves himself into a ‘cubic stone’, into a ‘philosopher’s stone’. On that ‘Square of Construction’, the Spirit-Soul establishes its reign in the Man who has become Perfect. It is the Perfection of the Spirit-Soul-Man."
Quote from the above link.

How similar is this to the aims of the Freemason.

The brother is initially considered a rough "Ashlar" and through study and contemplation the brother transforms himself into the " Perfect Ashlar "
This work is accomplished as the Mason progresses through the 3 degrees of " Entered Apprentice , Fellowcraft and Master Mason "

[Athanor]

Hi Neo,

The Mason's still use the cubic stone in their rituals today. There are three, rough, half worked and polished. They represent what you have said. Each form represents one of the first three degrees.

[Athanor]

I thought that the 700 years might be the revival of this stream of thought in society. So the Laurel becomes green again. Is there some revelation planned for release ??

I was lucky enough to climb up to have a look at Montsegur about twelve years ago. I only wish that I understood more back then. If you get the chance go, it is wonderful.

What do we know about the Grail ?
The descriptions of it and what it is about keeps changing. ( stone, plate, cup , book, jewel, etc etc ) It must therefore be a spiritual thing. We have to become the Grail ourselves, it keeps coming back to this again and again. An elightenment of sorts.

[Athanor]

Has anyone made further progress on the latest clue ?

"Discover the word and write without a pen to answer without a letter "

[JR62464]

jr62464

are you talking about the return of the cathars/templars?

wonder why they said 700 years :headscratch: . All i can think of is dawn of new age of Aquarius.

Because, the Cathars believed in reincarnation. This is when the return of the Grail will happen again, it fits in nicely with the timeline of this book coming out. its all to do with the grails reapperance. Again this Knowledge will be brought to light. sadly many will fail to see this light. Laurel are symbolic of Victory!! yes, all poussins painting ( most all) there is the man with the Laruel leaf around his head, he usally has a vase of water he is seen pouring out. This is symbolic for the coming of the Victory of the Cathars, the true light that was almost put out by the church its self.This is why we had the period of the " Darkages" = Ignorance, Man worst enemy. without this Light the Cathars had we would all still be in total darkness.
Now the Latest clue to the puzzle. It has to do with submitting this puzzle. thats what I heard. did you all see Duncan Burden?
http://www.maranatha-puzzle.com/midpoint/

[JR62464]

The Grail is the Minne which is the light( truth) that is within us all.

Amor

[JR62464]

I wanted to post this for you guys here.

Priory Publications GB Limited/Booth
#1719
65 Meadow Way
Mepal,
Ely, United Kingdom CB6 2GH
URL: www.maranatha-puzzle.com/midpoint
A show special is available on combined orders
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Key Contact Information
Claire Burden, Director and Company
Secretary
claire@sacredprize.com
578. MARANATHA ET IN ARCADIA EGO - THE
COMPANION: Maranatha the International
Treasure Hunt This companion will ensure that
the Treasure is discovered the secret is shared
and a prize fund is claimed. Enhance your Faith.
Discover for yourself. (Religious Fiction & Non-
Fiction) Duncan J. Burden GBP 9.99 Paperback
(9780954993818) 2006


Also I wanted to show you this link, it may be helpful, maybe not?

http://priory-of-sion.com/psp/id17.html

[madmonk]

here is a true modern day alchemist view of the story of israel from the bible. heres a little paragraph to wet your app:

"The children of Isreal (that means, the soul struggling with God) are being led by Moses(thoth-hermes or mercurius), with with his Aesculapius-staff(the power of widom), parted the Red Sea (chaos)"

goto this website , its a pdf and then look at chapter titled "The Mysteries of Israel"

http://www.angelfire.com/nb/warbeast666/library/alchemy_unveiled.pdf

check out Osiris chapter as well.

[JR62464]

I had to post this link. this is such a good read. http://www.lundyisleofavalon.co.uk/templars/tempic04.htm

Duncan was so right when he said this puzzle could be solved in one day.
Ok, so we know that the grail will reappear again after 700 years. This is why after the Cathars last stand 700 years ago they sang " After 700 years the Laural will bloom again" the truth( Light) will come about again just as was told then. This Light is the Grail. I just hope there is no one hurt over this.:popcorn:

[madmonk]

Hi Jr62464

If you are interested there is a book in existance that show you how to construct the holy grail. In a spiritual sense. I have it, and its a good read, but i have never attempted it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tower-Alchemy-Advanced-Guide-Great/dp/1578631130/ref=sr_1_1/203-7778058-8568734?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190104962&sr=8-1

[madmonk]

Discover the word and write without a pen, to answer without a letter’


maybe "the word" is email address.

so <insert The Word>@maranatha-puzzle.com

<shrug> all i can think of

[madmonk]

maybe you seen this already.its flamels drawings from his original notebook.

check out drawings 12 - 17.

http://www.alchemylab.com/flameldwgs.htm

[JR62464]

Yes I have seen most all Flamels drawing. Interesting...

[Athanor]

Hi,

I think that it would be a good thing to compare the pics in the Maranatha book with the original Flamel pics to see what the differences are. This could be rewarding noting what has been left out or added. The pic with the pyramid is closest to the Mons Philosophorum.

[JR62464]

OK, I will check it out tonight. Thanks

[madmonk]

Kind picked the easy one.

on page seven.

The man hold what looks a hour glass and sythe, looks very much like the Hermit on Rider-Waite deck of tarot cards. heres a link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hermit

If we trace the tarot back to its roots, however, we find a somewhat different intention behind this card. The title given to the card in Italy in the 14th and 15th centuries varied between three alternatives: The Hunchback (il Gobbo), the Old Man (il Vecchio) and Time (il Tempo). All were about equally common and equally early, so there is no reason to give one clear priority over the others. Rather than carrying a lantern, he typically carries an hourglass. He is, in fact, the familiar "Father Time" who is still occasionally trotted out for New Years festivities
Hermit: The design has been alleged to represent the historic hermit from Ancient Greece, Diogenes, who with his lantern was looking for an honest man.The name "hermit" is also from the name of the Greek god Hermes.


Father Time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Time
http://www.novareinna.com/festive/oft.html

and of course we got hermes.
an those bloody symbols. I know what they represent but why are they there?

[madmonk]

The picture on pg 7 and flamels picture.

has:

hermit .
hourglass.
sytche and hermes in the sky.
and clouds.

The positions of the characters are different in the 2 pictures so layout of the characters isnt important.

But there are no symbols on flamels drawing of pg 7.

These sysmbols have got to be telling us to look to the heavens. The old father Time story has loads refs to saturn, neptune, moon etc. I just cant work out what else they mean. And not one reference to symbols in the companion guide.

[edit]
Lets appoarch if from a different point of view

1. Symbols could mean an astrological event.
2. Symbols represent human traits.
3. They could be some form cryptic clue.

[JR62464]

I want to say read WOLFRAM VON ESCHENBACH " Parzival" More info on the Hermit and Cathar connection
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/Classes/US310/Manichaeanism.html
read this for a start to get an Idea on this man. I`ll find more links later

[madmonk]

So elect were just like the Drones in a bee colony. Hit the nail on head there. :D

[madmonk]

just incase nobodys seen this lots info just found it.

http://www.gnosis.org/library/manis.htm

parable about the 2 snakes very interesting

http://www.gnosis.org/library/parsnak.htm

[JR62464]

So elect were just like the Drones in a bee colony. Hit the nail on head there. :D Now your using your noggin LOL:popcorn:

[Athanor]

Hi all,

The pic on page 7 shows Time confronting Mercury. The scythe he holds in his hand is a reminder that our lives have an end. He is the Grim Reaper. No one lives forever. The hour glass also reminds us of the fact when the sand runs out our time is up. He is shown confronting Mercury, not even his serpent staff is much help. There is one version of this picture that shows Mercury being cut off at the knees. I just wish that I could remember where I saw it, so if any of you can remember where, please let me know.

The symbols must be a cryptic clue as they have little relevance to the pic.

The serpent staff is the way that Mercury travels between the three worlds, It represents balance, for when the opposties are in balance he can travel between the worlds. The Messenger.

The aspect of the scene taking place in heaven is also important. This points to it being a spiritual confrontation.

[Athanor]

The second pic is about the three shepherds.

Joseph, Mosis and Aaron. They all have their own staff and are depicted in front of a tomb. At the top is a rose receiving divine knowledge. The rose also is the soul/spirit. The growth of wisdom and so the lead becomes gold.

I think that the high priest in the Jewish Temple wore a tiny rose shaped cup on the top of his head dress symbolising receiving divine knowledge, but I am not sure.

The aspect here is Earthly. It seems to be telling us that something lives on after death. The something is the rose and what it represents.

[Athanor]

In the third pic on page 9.

Wisdom continues to grow in the soul/ spirit supported by the Great Tree. The underground stream is vanishing, does this mean that the number of followers who know the truth are dwindling ? The truth will remain regardless of the stream.

Which tree is it ?? The Tree of the knowledge of good and evil, or of everlasting life ??? Well, there is no snake and stream also represents the waters of life. It looks more like it is the tree of everlasting life.

There is a feeling of dualism here. The background is black on white, reminding me of the Templar Flag depicted in the last of the four scenes.

[Athanor]

The last scene shows the Massacre of the Innocents.

I think of the demise of the Templars and later on the slaughter of the Cathars. Their flag is in the background. The most dangerous belief that they had was that Gnosis was obtained directly. This means that the organised Church's authority and monopoly of God was threatened. Priests were no longer needed. No one was to have free will.

The discovery of what the flag meant was a great break through, thanks JR.