Marvel Divided by a Civil War...

[SinisterPryde]

Whose side will you be on?

I know it's a little early for this one, but I am curious to see how much is known outside of the following:

There is a massive incident of innocent bystanders being killed (or injured) by superheroes...

The goverment ennacts the Hero Registration Act...

Captain America and Iron Man are divided on this issue...

Lines are drawn, a Fantastic Four member is critically injured, Hulk is off-world, and Spider-Man will be drastically altered.

This starts in The Avengers: Illuminati one-shot and then explodes in the Civil War mini-series starting in May by Mark Millar and Steven McNiven.

And the Marvel Universe Will Never Be the Same...

[Immortal1982]

I like what they are promising, because its built up subtlely since the beginning. To be honest, there is almost no trust when heroes in the marvel universe team up. I think alot of this will be the natural extension of that.

2 preludes arcs confirmed and both written by stracyzinski. Amazing Spiderman:Mr Parker goes to washington, and Fantastic Four: The Hammer.
The hammer will play a key role when you realize what it is.

oh and im on the pie side.

[Cuchulainn]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Spider-Man will side with Iron Man.

[SinisterPryde]

I am guessing that those with the most to lose will side with Iron Man. This is assuming, of course, that Iron Man is all about the secret. So I can se Spider-Man siding with him. They have secret identities for a reason. The problem with public revelations has been clearly outlined in Daredevil over the past few years.

I am just now really grasping the different directions Marvel can take this. It can change the entire power structure in their world, not to mention a lot of standings. For one, if the law was passed, how many heroes would then have to be hunted for breaking this law? How many would quit?

I don't think this affects the villians really (since most are publicly known and don't follow the law anyway). Still, it wil be interesting to see.

[DaForce]

Too many crossover events in the last six months (this one makes it number 3?!), means that I'll probably be cancelling a lot of my Marvel titles. I already cancelled the majority of my DC titles (the only two left are Batman/Superman and Supergirl...and with the way Loeb's been writing, those may go away sooner rather than later).

Honestly, if Marvel wasn't so damned greedy and just stuck with a storyline in a title, I'd probably have a bit more loyalty. Unfortunately, I can see that they're just trying to milk an already dead cow.

A least Dark Horse has some integrity left.

[SinisterPryde]

After reading Spider-Man #529, 530, and Avengers: Illuminati, I am feeling really excited by this event. The idea of the Hero Registration Act is taking some strides in resolving the problem I have with the X-Titles as far as being a part of the Marvel U.

I just hope when this is said and one, that Marvel will lay off the events for a while. This goes for DC as well. I want to see the stories that explore the ramifications. Not just a quick resolution and then leaping off into the next big event.

[Immortal1982]

Well dc has said it wants its titles to stand on their own, so at least 2 or 3 years before any major crossovers happen there

[SinisterPryde]

Okay, I just saw the release list for Civil War. When all is said and done,t his story will have covered 78 comics over a ten month period, the bulk of these over the summer months where as many as 10 - 12 books will be involved per month. I know cross-over events tend to be big, but that is ridiculous. Anyone planning on buying the whole thing?

[DaForce]

Honestly, just wait for the trades.


I'm sticking with the titles that I've been reading since before the "House of Dumb" storyline started.

[DeathScythe]

Honestly, just wait for the trades.


I'm sticking with the titles that I've been reading since before the "House of Dumb" storyline started.

yup, that's exactly what I'm gonna do. I'll stick with the ones I already get and then, I'll pick up the trades at a later date if I really want.

[Immortal1982]

After reading issue 1, I'm impressed, and ready for another go. It doesn't seem like a crossover where you have to buy every book to understand the story, but the tie-ins are like an extension or a different POV, and not required to understand the story.

Everybody gets their bits and pieces, and there are even hints to what side everyone is on, even if its not outright stated. I'm in for issue 2 so far, and Frontline, judging by The Pulse and Generation M titles.

[SinisterPryde]

Just an idle thought... If you were to buy every title that cross-oved or tied-in to Civil War (Spider-Man Unmasked books, Casualties of War) you wil have spent well over $300 on the storyline when all is said and done.

[DaForce]

Just an idle thought... If you were to buy every title that cross-oved or tied-in to Civil War (Spider-Man Unmasked books, Casualties of War) you wil have spent well over $300 on the storyline when all is said and done.

And that's still cheaper than buying Infinite Crisis (which really didn't resolve) and 52 (to explain Infinite Crisis).


At least with Civil War there's a compelling, coherent storyline.

[DaForce]

Speaking of Civil War, has anyone read the last Amazing Spidey (#537)?

In it, Spidey meets up with Cap and Spidey asks him point blank how does he deal with the country thinking of him (Cap) as a traitor, being that he (Cap) pretty much symbolizes the country. Cap's response is a recollection of a quote he once read when he was around 12. It was something that he memorized since it was the first time he realized what it was to be an American and what it was to be a patriot. The quote was from Mark Twain. Here it is...


In a republic, who is the country?

Is it the government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the government is merely a temporary servant: it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. It's function is to obey orders, not originate them.


Who, then is the country? Is it the newspaper? Is it the pulpit? Why, these are mere parts of the country, not the whole of it, they have not command, they have only their little share in the command.


In a monarchy, the king and his family are the country: In a republicit is the common voice of the people each of you, for himself, by himself and on his own responsibility, must speak.


It is a solemn and weighty responsibility, and not lightly to be flung aside at the bullying of pulpit, press, government, or the empty catchphrases of politicians.


Each must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, and which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man.


To decide it against your convictions is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may.


If you alone of all the nation shall decide one way, and that way be the right way according to your convictions of the right, you have your duty by yourself and by your country. Hold up your head. You have nothing to be ashamed of'.



See the panels here. (http://captain-america.us/articles/civil-war.htm)


Damn. That's some powerful stuff.

Now if Cap could only be written like this in every issue.


As a patriot, not a tool.

[KingVoyeur]

Yeah, I picked that one up. Pretty heavy stuff. Damn good though. Can't freaking wait for the final issues of the CW storyline next month!

Also, Did anyone else read "Civil War: The Return" this month? I didn't really read comics before last May, so exactly how big a deal is the revelation of who "returned"? I know they kill off characters and revive them a lot, but I did my research and this seems like a pretty big deal.

[Immortal1982]

Mar-vell is one of the 3 characters they promised to never bring back(Bucky and Uncle Ben were the other 2), but i wonder where they are going with the story. We'll probably find out in February or March at New York Comiccon.

[SinisterPryde]

So, of the three characters Marvel promised never to bring back, only one is still dead. I'm sure glad Quesada stated that dead is dead, or I would have really been confused. Of course, with series like The Exiles, death doesn't really mean anything. What? Hawkeye died? Oh, well, then, we'll just bring in Hawkeye from Earth 983. The Exiles dump him off and hilarity ensues...

Seriously, though, The Return seems like one of those extraneous books that has nothing to do with the storyline, they just figured the tie-in title would help. At least it was better than the "Choosing Sides" one-shot. I was pissed that I payed $4 for a commercial for other series and a Howard the Duck story. This thing should have been a freebie, bagged with a random issue of Civil War. Oh well, c'est la vie.

So, um, who dies at the end of this? ;-)

[KingVoyeur]

Which one is still dead? Didn't they bring back Bucky as the Winter Soldier? And Uncle Ben kinda came back (albeit from a parallel universe) in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.

[SinisterPryde]

Missed the Uncle Ben appearance. Okay, so no one stays dead.

[Immortal1982]

So its ended. And what a wild ending.

Cap goes to jail, clor bites it, Reed and sue reunite, and Tony Stark: Director of Shield

I think it was a solid ending, and in the end, they start to make it seem that the right side won. I cannot wait to see where it goes from here. It all ties back to New Avengers first arc, and sets up a whole new realm of possibilties, especially to get knocked around by the Hulk in a few months.....

[KingVoyeur]

Definitely an interesting ending, wasn't really expecting it. Maybe a little too much humor at points. Both sides had valid arguments, but the wrap-up still left me wanting a little more. Don't get me wrong, I was all happy that it was finally ending, but now they're starting this whole "The Initiative" thing, so I don't think it'll ever end.

Also picked up the last Amazing Spider-Man Civil War, nothing really surprising there, and Punisher: War Journal, which frickin ROCKED!

[SinisterPryde]

***spoilers***

I found the ending to this story to be a bit of an anti-climax. I mean, I understood that even if Captain America won the fight, the Registration Act would still exist. I just thought that, somehow, Iron Man might redeem himself. It appears as if Mark Millar thinks that somehow Stark is more heroic and righteous because he believes in the political game. I actually hated Tony Stark by the end of this story.

Of course, this makes me wonder about the "Road" titles. How does the Fantastic Four arc tie in to the rest of this? Was the Hammer meant to be that misleading? I thought Thor would have made a real comeback. That would have made more sense than Captain Mar-Vell.

Still, the conclusion was true to the story and I respect that. I am looking forward to what happens next, even if my opinion of Iron Man has shot straight down hill. Maybe Frontline's conclusion will change my mind...

[DaForce]

Yeah, the ending seemed like a sort of cop out to me.

The Iniative doesn't look to be that much better either. Maybe World War Hulk will bring things back on track.


With all said and done, this was still light years better than DC's Infinite Blindness...errr..Crisis. I actually dropped all my DC titles except for Supergirl and Batman/Superman because of the whole One Beer Later take DC took on all the titles.

[Immortal1982]

A little perspective on why cap did what he did though.

You ever hear of a drunk's "Moment of Clarity"? When Cap was attacked by the citizens of new york, and saw all the carnage he had done, he felt he had no choice. At the beginning, he could have refused to sign and fought the act in congress and the courts, but he chose a different path. I'm not saying either way would have been right or successful in the end, but it provides a thought.

Odds are that Cap will be back in action during World war hulk.

[Greyman]

You ever hear of a drunk's "Moment of Clarity"?

No.

Just Jay-Z's.

[VectorSigma]

Yeah, the ending seemed like a sort of cop out to me.

Big time! The battle was cool and all, but come on! This was so hyped, the final battle should have filled the last three issues.

[SinisterPryde]

My problem wasn't the battle. I guess that in making the series as realistic as they can within the boundaries of the universe the end was insincere. Logical? Yeah, but only if you ignore the last 40 years. How often have the X-Men fought for a cause they believed in only to have debris thrown at them by bystanders? How many buildings have been destroyed by the Avengers both collectively and as individuals? Now, because a villain (not the hero who was blamed, mind you, but a VILLAIN) killed a lot of people (which is what they do sometimes) the country decided their heroes need to be more closely monitored. Funny, I never saw any of the X-Men stand up and be like "You know what, they're right, mutants are a menace to society! Where is the nearest concentration camp?" I'll take pure escapism over "realism" any day.

[Merin]

My problem wasn't the battle. I guess that in making the series as realistic as they can within the boundaries of the universe the end was insincere. Logical? Yeah, but only if you ignore the last 40 years. How often have the X-Men fought for a cause they believed in only to have debris thrown at them by bystanders? How many buildings have been destroyed by the Avengers both collectively and as individuals? Now, because a villain (not the hero who was blamed, mind you, but a VILLAIN) killed a lot of people (which is what they do sometimes) the country decided their heroes need to be more closely monitored. Funny, I never saw any of the X-Men stand up and be like "You know what, they're right, mutants are a menace to society! Where is the nearest concentration camp?" I'll take pure escapism over "realism" any day.

Three cheers for SinisterPryde! :cool:

Seriously, I don't need to say much more than what was just said here.

Well done, I'm 100% in agreement.

[DaForce]

So I just read Cap #25, and I've come to the conclusion that he's not dead. Why you ask? It's the inclusion of Nick Fury in the storyline. Sure, we never see him in the story, but he's the man pulling a lot of strings. He's the one that was providing all the hideouts for the resistance, even though he wasn't there in person. He provided fake IDs. And I'm thinking he provided an LMD of Cap so that everyone would think Cappy was dead when in actuality Fury was busting him out of jail and setting him up in a different life somewhere else.

You watch, just when you least expect it, Cap's gonna drop the charade and come out of hiding.



What does this have to do with Civil war? Well, Cap #25 feels like the actual end of the Civil War storyline for the time being.

[SinisterPryde]

End of Civil War? Is there one? Marvel has a four month Checklist for The Initiative and The current Cap story is supposed to go nine issues.

As for the whole death, no one ever seems to ask the right questions when they talk to Marvel. There is never a question of how they plan to show that he is really dead and that this isn't some kind of stunt. Though, the Fallen Son limited series seems poised to answer that. The interesting thing is that the third issue stars Captain America...

[MisterAJ]

I had a lengty rant about my POV on the CW...

Here's a link:

http://www.mania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4105

And here's the SPOILER warning... SPOILER... :cool: