Disgusting: Wellstone Funeral Redux

[American]

Political Posturing at King Funeral Draws Cheers, Jeers

(CNSNews.com) - President Bush rearranged his schedule to attend the funeral of Coretta Scott King on Tuesday, only to hear liberal Democrats, including former President Jimmy Carter, take political potshots at him.

Stoking anger about the federal response to Hurricane Katrina, former President Carter said, "The struggle for equal rights is not over. We only have to recall the color of the faces of those in Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi, those who were most devastated by Katrina, to know that there are not yet equal opportunities for all Americans."

The crowd roared its approval.

And in a reference to President Bush's much-criticized NSA surveillance program, Carter brought up the "secret government wiretapping" of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. many years ago.

Many in the crowd stood to applaud Carter.

The Rev. Joseph Lowery, a civil rights leader who is now 85 years old, drew cheers when he criticized the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

He began by mentioning that Coretta Scott King "extended Martin's message against poverty, racism and war:

"She deplored the terror inflicted by our smart bombs on missions way afar. We know now that there were no weapons of mass destruction over there, but Coretta knew, and we know, that there are weapons of misdirection right down here.

"For war, billions more -- but no more for the poor!" Lowery added.

President Bush and his father, sitting on the dais, shook their heads slightly at some of the criticism. Video footage of the president showed the political criticism made both him and his wife uncomfortable.

But press reports noted that President Bush shook Lowery's hand when he finished his speech.

Former President Bill Clinton and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton traveled to the funeral with the Bushes on Air Force One.

While Bill Clinton confined his remarks to the life and legacy of Mrs. King, he drew a thunderous ovation from the crowd, a stark contrast to the polite applause for President Bush.

Some Republicans and conservative radio hosts were quick to criticize liberal Democrats who used Mrs. King's funeral to send a political message to President Bush.

In turn, liberal, anti-Bush blogs expressed fury at Republicans who would dare to complain.

"So African American mourning does not meet with Republican approval," one blogger wrote on the anti-Bush Daily Kos website.

"Is there anything we do that they do approve of?" another blogger responded - "besides continuing to give birth to self-hating Toms like the Condoleeza (sic) Rices, Clarence Thomases, Kenneth Blackwells, and Lynn Swanns of the world?"

"They [Republicans] are up against the wall," one blogger wrote - a recurring refrain among Democrats who are reassured when they think liberals are scoring points against Republicans.

"It's amazing that the freepers (conservative bloggers) are up in arms because Bubble Boy got a taste of true public opinion today," another anti-Bush liberal wrote. "If the Cowardly Cowboys' public appearances were truly open to all, he'd find out that the standing ovation that highlighted his incompetence today is how the majority of Americans feel about this simpletons [sic] leadership."

"ANYONE who trashes the King funeral in the press should be jumped on by us ALL," another liberal blogger wrote on the Daily Kos website. "Time to teach those vermin some MANNERS."

People on both the left and the right made comparisons to the funeral of the late Sen. Paul Wellstone, a liberal Democrat from Minnesota.

Wellstone, his wife and daughter died in a plane crash in October 2002. His memorial service, according to Republicans, turned into a three-hour political convention, just days before the 2002 midterm election.

Wellstone had been campaigning for re-election to a third term against Republican Norm Coleman, who now holds the seat.

Political Posturing at King Funeral Draws Cheers, Jeers (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C200602% 5CPOL20060208a.html)

KABOOM!
What was that? Oh...just the death of the Democratic party.

And Al Sharpton is on Bill O Reilly right now making an ass of himself, saying it was all justified.

[Kaeos]

May I? I'll be good. No personal attacks, just social commentary:D

Political Posturing at King Funeral Draws Cheers, Jeers

(CNSNews.com) - President Bush rearranged his schedule to attend the funeral of Coretta Scott King on Tuesday, only to hear liberal Democrats, including former President Jimmy Carter, take political potshots at him.
Re-arranged his schedule? Hmm. No political posturing there. At least he didn't cut into one of his many vacations for this year. He only gets like, 10.

Stoking anger about the federal response to Hurricane Katrina, former President Carter said, "The struggle for equal rights is not over. We only have to recall the color of the faces of those in Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi, those who were most devastated by Katrina, to know that there are not yet equal opportunities for all Americans."
Aptly pointing out the government's failure in the eyes of black America and Bush's pointless presence at this funeral is yet another desperation move to improve opinion poll numbers.


And in a reference to President Bush's much-criticized NSA surveillance program, Carter brought up the "secret government wiretapping" of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. many years ago.
Again, somehow apt for the occasion and further points to why certain people shouldn't have been there.

Many in the crowd stood to applaud Carter.
And why wouldn"t they? He was a great leader.

The Rev. Joseph Lowery, a civil rights leader who is now 85 years old, drew cheers when he criticized the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

He began by mentioning that Coretta Scott King "extended Martin's message against poverty, racism and war:

"She deplored the terror inflicted by our smart bombs on missions way afar. We know now that there were no weapons of mass destruction over there, but Coretta knew, and we know, that there are weapons of misdirection right down here.

"For war, billions more -- but no more for the poor!" Lowery added.

President Bush and his father, sitting on the dais, shook their heads slightly at some of the criticism. Video footage of the president showed the political criticism made both him and his wife uncomfortable.
:rolleyes: Shoudn'ta oughta been there.

But press reports noted that President Bush shook Lowery's hand when he finished his speech. *cricket**cricket**cricket*

Former President Bill Clinton and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton traveled to the funeral with the Bushes on Air Force One.

While Bill Clinton confined his remarks to the life and legacy of Mrs. King, he drew a thunderous ovation from the crowd, a stark contrast to the polite applause for President Bush.
Okay, now help me understand how this, a clearly non-partisan, non-politicized speach, leads to this
Some Republicans and conservative radio hosts were quick to criticize liberal Democrats who used Mrs. King's funeral to send a political message to President Bush. Becuase attacking the other side is the entire purpose of political pundits. ON both sides.

In turn, liberal, anti-Bush blogs expressed fury at Republicans who would dare to complain.

"So African American mourning does not meet with Republican approval," one blogger wrote on the anti-Bush Daily Kos website.

"Is there anything we do that they do approve of?" another blogger responded - "besides continuing to give birth to self-hating Toms like the Condoleeza (sic) Rices, Clarence Thomases, Kenneth Blackwells, and Lynn Swanns of the world?"

"They [Republicans] are up against the wall," one blogger wrote - a recurring refrain among Democrats who are reassured when they think liberals are scoring points against Republicans.

"It's amazing that the freepers (conservative bloggers) are up in arms because Bubble Boy got a taste of true public opinion today," another anti-Bush liberal wrote. "If the Cowardly Cowboys' public appearances were truly open to all, he'd find out that the standing ovation that highlighted his incompetence today is how the majority of Americans feel about this simpletons [sic] leadership."

"ANYONE who trashes the King funeral in the press should be jumped on by us ALL," another liberal blogger wrote on the Daily Kos website. "Time to teach those vermin some MANNERS."

People on both the left and the right made comparisons to the funeral of the late Sen. Paul Wellstone, a liberal Democrat from Minnesota.

Wellstone, his wife and daughter died in a plane crash in October 2002. His memorial service, according to Republicans, turned into a three-hour political convention, just days before the 2002 midterm election.

Wellstone had been campaigning for re-election to a third term against Republican Norm Coleman, who now holds the seat.
And here, dear freinds is where the current 2 partys representing America fail miserably. No one presents ideas. No one presents solutions. Both sides just push agendas and slam the other. A continuing failure and a clear sign that fat old Democrats and the rich, fat old Republicans all need to be marched out of Washington and the interests of the American people need to be served by new, more moderate and less divisive partys

KABOOM!
What was that? Oh...just the death of the Democratic party.

And Al Sharpton is on Bill O Reilly right now making an ass of himself, saying it was all justified.

And is that any different than Bill O'Rielly, Rush Limbaugh and the rest do every day? Honestly, I still can't believe anyone age 18-35 can be so blindly loyal to either party. But obviously, many are. Sad really

Time to wake up folks.

[Space Tycoon]

He began by mentioning that Coretta Scott King "extended Martin's message against poverty, racism and war:

"She deplored the terror inflicted by our smart bombs on missions way afar. We know now that there were no weapons of mass destruction over there, but Coretta knew, and we know, that there are weapons of misdirection right down here.

.....

While Bill Clinton confined his remarks to the life and legacy of Mrs. King, he drew a thunderous ovation from the crowd, a stark contrast to the polite applause for President Bush.


Let us not forget... Clinton's administration maintained the punishing sanctions on Iraq, which led to the death of half a million Iraqi children-- but that's okay, it was all worth it, Madeleine Albright informs us. :(

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

I'll take Kaeos one further. Perhaps it is time we re-investigate the U.S. Constitution, convene a Constitutional Convention, and wreak havoc. Tear out everything that no longer works, is archaic, or simply irrelevant. Make a more contemporary document that addresses our society today.

As for the remarks at the funeral, it is a good thing that President Bush has to listen to that sort of criticism, as he needs to know that not everyone agrees with him, and he has to take the opinions of others into consideration when determining what national policy is going to be.

This was a chance for some to get the ear of the President, and that helps all of us.

[Intelligent_Design]

I'll take Kaeos one further. Perhaps it is time we re-investigate the U.S. Constitution, convene a Constitutional Convention, and wreak havoc. Tear out everything that no longer works, is archaic, or simply irrelevant. Make a more contemporary document that addresses our society today.

As for the remarks at the funeral, it is a good thing that President Bush has to listen to that sort of criticism, as he needs to know that not everyone agrees with him, and he has to take the opinions of others into consideration when determining what national policy is going to be.

This was a chance for some to get the ear of the President, and that helps all of us.

I think the remarks were in poor taste given the setting. Its no diffrent than war protesters showing up at soldier's funerals that were killed in Iraq.

[Adam54]

Well....Kirk has a point.

Cindy Sheehan (nutjob that she turned out to be) tried getting the ear of the president to fill it with things that (like her or hate her) he could've stood to hear.

Yesterday...there was no avoiding it. It sounds like he took it very well, but he needs awkward situations once in a while. I'm sure he tries his best to forget there are people out there who aren't his yes-men.

And skippy? That wasn't the end of the Democratic Party. Get the hell over yourself with the prophetic wisdom, okay?

[Bill_the_Pony]

Cortisone injections are great for knee-jerk responses. :)

[DarkJedi]

I'd have to agree with ID in the fact that it wasn't probably the right place to stage such politics.

While working today, there was a newspaper with the picture of the 4 presidents(and future president Hillary and first lady Laura) on the front page. I didn't get any chance to read the article underneath the photo because I was busy at this particular Walmart auditing phone lines but the picture caught me off guard.

Basically in the picture itself, W was looking to the right at something, Laura had a wtf smile, Bill was squinting at something, Hillary looked pissed and Jimmy looked almost happy.

I guess now that I've read what happened there, the picture of odd expressions from Clinton & Bushes makes alittle more sense.

[Jakester]

Carter despises Dubya, that much is true, and he uses just about any forum to voice his displeasure. I don't know how inappropriate it was to talk about the Kings' love of peace, especially given the obvious views of most of those in attendence (know your audience, after all). Bush wasn't supposed to be there...

[Bokchoi Cowboy]

Carter despises Dubya, that much is true, and he uses just about any forum to voice his displeasure. I don't know how inappropriate it was to talk about the Kings' love of peace, especially given the obvious views of most of those in attendence (know your audience, after all). Bush wasn't supposed to be there...

Bush not showing up would certainly be panned in the media as an affront, so he was in a "screwed if you do, screwed if you don't" situation.

It was completely appropriate to talk of the Kings' love of peace, but there is a difference between praising someone and taking advantage of a situation to forward ones ideas in a very selfish manner.

Regardless of the way the crowd "roared in agreement" with the comments of Carter, et al, the day was supposed to be a remembrance and celebration of the life of Corretta Scott King, and by extension, Martin Luther King Jr. Going beyond that focus and into opinions on current political situations is plainly selfish. Anyone who made any statement on how either of the Kings felt on the war in Iraq, Katrina, or President Bush would be trying to speak for the dead, and that is innapropriate.

There are other venues to vent opinion, and a funeral, no matter who it is for, is not the place for posturing, posing, and politicking.

I am not making any statement in support of Bush in any way by saying this, but I feel that many who spoke were disrespectful of Corretta Scott King and her memory by what they did.


As far as I see it regarding how Carter expresses his thoughts on Bush, I can see him attacking any chance he could get to reduce the bad opinion a lot of people have of Carter himself due to the lousy president he was. I am remended now of the scene from the movie Top Secret, in which Nick Rivers is talking to Hillary about her past. She makes a comment that her family was one of the lucky ones, escaping in a balloon from America during the Carter administration. Simply, the man sucked just as hard as Bush does now. Many of the decisions he made started the ball rolling on circumstances that the current administration has to face, especially the middle east. Most of you should remember the gas lines, the newfound attitude of OPEC that they could piss all over us and make us ask "sir, yes sir, may I have another", the images of dead soldier in an Iranian desert, the blidfolded hostages every night on network news, the massive spike in inflation. Yup, Carter sure has a lot of valid reasons to point fingers at Bush, doesn't he?

[Space Tycoon]

Simply, the man sucked just as hard as Bush does now.

Nope. Bush is far, far worse. America hasn't had anything close to a great president since Reagan. And no-one since WWII has come close to Eisenhower.

IMHO.

[neglet]

Regardless of the way the crowd "roared in agreement" with the comments of Carter, et al, the day was supposed to be a remembrance and celebration of the life of Coretta Scott King, and by extension, Martin Luther King Jr. Going beyond that focus and into opinions on current political situations is plainly selfish. Anyone who made any statement on how either of the Kings felt on the war in Iraq, Katrina, or President Bush would be trying to speak for the dead, and that is innapropriate.

There are other venues to vent opinion, and a funeral, no matter who it is for, is not the place for posturing, posing, and politicking.

I am not making any statement in support of Bush in any way by saying this, but I feel that many who spoke were disrespectful of Coretta Scott King and her memory by what they did.

I understand that feeling, but I'm not sure I agree with it. On the surface, it doesn't seem fair that President and Mrs. Bush, who were attending the funeral to pay their respects to a great American, should be made to feel uncomfortable during the ceremony. That doesn't seem to be the purpose of a funeral, at least as most of us have experienced them.

But after all, Coretta Scott and Martin Luther King were political activists whose modus operandi was to speak out and demonstrate peacefully against injustice, no matter whom it inconvenienced or embarrassed. If talking about the failures in Iraq and New Orleans embarrassed the President, whose fault is that? The ones who talked about it, or the ones responsible for the failures? Should people remain silent about their feelings on injustice in order to spare the feelings of those responsbile?

You can say that a funeral isn't a place for political speeches, but Coretta Scott King was a political figure. Her friends and family knew her feelings about issues today, and by extension what her husband would have thought. They felt they were speaking out on her behalf one last time. They had an extremely rare opportunity to speak directly to the president, and they took it--just as she would have done.

If that makes us uncomfortable by extension--then good. Maybe we'll start thinking and talking about these issues instead of leaving the political debate to the politicians.

[Bokchoi Cowboy]

I am very much with you there, my Spaceman friend, on the Reagan/Eisenhower thing.

Consider though, how much of the general piss-off of this country and in this country began with Carter. Granted, Bush has screwed the pooch on a lot of stuff on his own, but the inertia of the stuff that began during the Carter years, that Reagan didn't address, just picked up speed since Reagan's time and finally became focal points again during this Bush administration. Bush of course could have handled things in a Reagan manner, from international relations to the economy, but he doesn't have the gifts Ronald had, nor does he have the staff that could re-direct him to correct actions.

Clinton had the intelligence and the charisma to pull off a lot of good, including some improvement to the economy that was a surprise.

The senior Bush didn't really do much of his own, riding on Reagan's coat-tails.

Carter was an incompetent twit, much as GW is. Perhaps a movie will be made someday with a joke of how SpaceTycoon was one of the lucky ones who escaped the planet in a rocket during the GW Bush administration....

[Bokchoi Cowboy]

Maybe we'll start thinking and talking about these issues instead of leaving the political debate to the politicians.

What the fuck do you think we talk about in here every freaking day? I am sure most of the posters here who debate poltics and issues of concern here are not shy when it comes to doing the same with people in the real-world (not messageboards).

And I don't buy into your point of view that since the Kings' were political in their actions and speech that it was appropriate to make political attacks at the funeral. What would you say to someone showing up at your funeral, that day in the future, and make statements of a similar manner, since by your documented participation in politic threads on this very message board could classify you the same way you classified the Kings, as a political activist and speaker?

As far as the rest of the public speaking up about politics: get your ass off the computer one of these days and start listening in to the conversations of people you see out in the world. Most discussion is about current events and politics. I don't see how this funeral and the "bravery to speak out" during the funeral becomes a magical catalyst that will inspire public debate on politics.

[Jakester]

Temper, temper, Boki. :)

[Space Tycoon]

Carter was an incompetent twit, much as GW is. Perhaps a movie will be made someday with a joke of how SpaceTycoon was one of the lucky ones who escaped the planet in a rocket during the GW Bush administration....

I wish. I'll just have to get in line for Virgin Galactic like everyone else... :jump2:

I guess I am willing to give Carter some slack for spending his remaining years trying to set a decent example for others. I just don't understand this notion, which I hear often, that our problems in the Middle East derive from his administration, when in fact, these are problems which go back generations. Centuries, even.

Reagan's answer to the perceived Iranian threat was to finance the bloody, poison-gas-filled Iran-Iraq War. I'm certain he was convinced it was the right course of action, but to me that remains his biggest blunder. If anything, Carter and Brzezinski(sp?) at least attempted some balance in the Mideast. What happened would have happened anyway. It had to. The energy crisis was a stark warning of what can happen when America turns away from it's greatest strength--self-sufficiency. And as for Iran, well, let's face it, the Shah was a dungeonmaster. Soner or later, he would have fallen.

I agree Carter was unforgivably naive on Soviet Communism. Now there was a real threat, a malignant force which could have vaporized our entire way of life in an afternoon if they had wanted...

Getting back to the topic at hand, I also agree that King's funeral should not have been turned into a political version of a Roman Circus, with Bush the unhappy Christian martyr thrown to the lions.

Tacky. Very tacky. :rolleyes:

[Intelligent_Design]

I don't see how this funeral and the "bravery to speak out" during the funeral becomes a magical catalyst that will inspire public debate on politics.
I agree And look at us now WE (Here and the real world) are discussing the comments made at the funeral by certain people and we are not talking about the CSK or the MLK legacy. Thats the biggest damage these comments caused. I know people say Bush does the same thing with 9/11 and its victims. But one of these sides are gonna have to rise above this trend of capitalizing on death for political gain.

[omicron]

I was going to post about this yesterday, but forgot.

I agree, this was INCREDIBLY tacky and disrespectful to turn what should be a memorial for an important person into a political grandstanding oppurtunity. Personally, I don't think I could feel more disgusted about Lowrey if he stood on the casket and pissed on the corpse.

You don't like the war, the policies of the government, the leadership? Fine. Protest, organize voter issue education, march, vote. Just don't do it at the funeral of someone. I totally agree that this is little different from the antiwar protestors that show up at soldier's funerals with signs against the President and the war.

Tact people, tact. Right place right time.

Oh, and Carter, that domestic spying on the Kings you mentioned? Started by Robert Kennedy (http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2OTEmZmdi ZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4NTY2MzAmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZU VFeXk5) when he was Attorney General.

Omicron

[neglet]

What the fuck do you think we talk about in here every freaking day? I am sure most of the posters here who debate poltics and issues of concern here are not shy when it comes to doing the same with people in the real-world (not messageboards).

I'm not sure why you're taking my comments personally, but I don't think there's any call to start cursing at me. I just think in a culture where the majority of Americans seem more obsessed with Nick and Jessica's breakup, Brangelina's bump, Britney's car seat, what Mariah was wearing at the Grammys, the latest bizarre murder case, or the next celebrity scandal than with what our politicians are doing, "we Americans" as a whole could stand to have a little more political discussion.

And I don't buy into your point of view that since the Kings' were political in their actions and speech that it was appropriate to make political attacks at the funeral. What would you say to someone showing up at your funeral, that day in the future, and make statements of a similar manner, since by your documented participation in politic threads on this very message board could classify you the same way you classified the Kings, as a political activist and speaker?

I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare my discussions on a messageboard with political activism involving televised speeches in front of thousands of people ... but if people wanted to speak at my funeral about political issues they knew were important to me, as a way of commemorating what I did with my life, I'd think that's appropriate. If it made other people feel uncomfortable, maybe they need to think about those issues. If it got too personal, I'd regret that but wouldn't take it as a personal affront to me. I'd be too dead to be upset about it.

Sure, some of the speakers at CSK's funeral were over the top in their political attacks. But I can understand their frustration at trying to get their message out to someone who doesn't listen. You may think it's "offensive" they used a funeral to speak out--I just think it's sad that they felt they had no other venue.

As far as the rest of the public speaking up about politics: get your ass off the computer one of these days and start listening in to the conversations of people you see out in the world. Most discussion is about current events and politics. I don't see how this funeral and the "bravery to speak out" during the funeral becomes a magical catalyst that will inspire public debate on politics.

I'll overlook the personal comments about my ass :p... I never said anything about "bravery to speak out." I don't think those comments took bravery, I think they were born of frustration. I feel sorry for President Bush for being put in such an embarrassing situation, but he only has himself to blame. If he had a more open adminstration, maybe these people wouldn't have felt that this was the only way to communicate with him.

[DaForce]

*Looks up from midterms*


Somebody died in here?




Wha?




Oh.



I've got it now. Political whitenoise at a funeral, and everyone's excited.






At least this week they are.


:smirk:



*Goes back to something important, like animating a friggin' character walk*

[Trazalca]

Early Tuesday morning, I was driving on I-20 heading West to Atlanta
to go to work. And right when I got to Lithonia, traffic halted.
It remained halted for 30 minutes, causing me to be royally late for work.
At that time, I had no idea that the Coretta Scott King funeral service
was being held just minutes from where I was sitting in the highway-turned-parking lot. In retrospect, it was one of the very FEW times in my life
I did not mind being so late for work.

On the way back home that night, driving through Lithonia again on I-20 East, the police were just beginning to block off and shut down all the lanes
on the other side of me, preparing to allow the hearse carrying Mrs. King
to the burial site to be buried alongside MLK Jr.
I never saw the hearse come through yet, but I felt compelled to
take off my wool cap in respect as I drove through.

Interesting how everyone during the funeral service had their take on
what to make of the legacy CSK left behind. (And as a brief aside,
I thought Mr. Clinton was among the most eloquent of speakers,
making his wife among the poorest and most club-footed of them.)

But as much as the media is milking this cow hard for what it's worth,
I'd just as soon prefer to remember the legacy,
and beautifully spelled out at CSK's website:

She has dialogued with heads of state, including prime ministers and presidents; and she has put in time on picket lines with welfare rights mothers. She has met with great spiritual leaders, including Pope John Paul, the Dalai Lama, Dorothy Day, and Bishop Desmond Tutu. She has witnessed the historic handshake between Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Chairman Yassir Arafat at the signing of the Middle East Peace Accords. She has stood with Nelson Mandela in Johannesburg when he became South Africa's first democratically-elected president. A woman of wisdom, compassion and vision, Coretta Scott King has tried to make ours a better world and, in the process, has made history.

Yeah. I'd prefer to remember that instead.

[omicron]

Well said, Traz.

On a humorous note: Jon Stewart was talking about the funeral last night, and he mentioned that is was uncomfortable for W to be in front of thousands of people, none of whom voted for him, except for his wife, and maybe, his dad. :)

Omicron
guess you had to see it. Go to ComedyCentral.com and watch it

[kah]

I know I am a little late commenting on this....

I was HORRIFIED to read about the politicking at CSK's funeral. I only saw the speech made by Bush, since I don't have cable, but I was glad to see he only spoke about HER. Being her funeral, and all, last words should be about the person who died. Not the guy sitting next to you who you think should be made to look like an ass in front of 10,000 people. I, too, thought about those funeral protesters. Here's a local news article about those SOBs.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/jan06/383433.asp

[American]

And skippy? That wasn't the end of the Democratic Party. Get the hell over yourself with the prophetic wisdom, okay?

Remind me...what happened after the Wellstone fiasco? Oh that's right. The Dems suffered a devestating loss in the Congressional races!


I don't know how inappropriate it was to talk about the Kings' love of peace, especially given the obvious views of most of those in attendence
The talk of peace is fine. The part about WMD and Iraq and the rest was not fine. That stuff is best left for outside the church zone.


But after all, Coretta Scott and Martin Luther King were political activists whose modus operandi was to speak out and demonstrate peacefully against injustice, no matter whom it inconvenienced or embarrassed. If talking about the failures in Iraq and New Orleans embarrassed the President, whose fault is that? The ones who talked about it, or the ones responsible for the failures? Should people remain silent about their feelings on injustice in order to spare the feelings of those responsbile?

You can say that a funeral isn't a place for political speeches, but Coretta Scott King was a political figure. Her friends and family knew her feelings about issues today, and by extension what her husband would have thought. They felt they were speaking out on her behalf one last time. They had an extremely rare opportunity to speak directly to the president, and they took it--just as she would have done.

You're making excuses for the behavior seen at this funeral. Yes, the Kings were peace activists. I respect them for it, but that does not justify Rev. Lowery going up to the podium and turning it into a soapbox. If he wants to talk about "injustices" of the war in Iraq or how Bush is supposivly neglecting blacks, then he should keep it off the church grounds. Vent your political views across the street, not over the woman's coffin.


Oh, and Carter, that domestic spying on the Kings you mentioned? Started by Robert Kennedy (http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2OTEmZmdi ZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4NTY2MzAmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZU VFeXk5) when he was Attorney General.

Omicron
Give Bobby a little credit. He was willing to somewhat humor Hoover that King was a communist. He allowed Hoover to tap King for 30 days. That was it. After that, he told Hoover to pull the plug. Hoover, with his rampant paranoia over communism (plus his bigotry), did not. He continued to tap King wherever he went.

[Adam54]

Buddy, I live in Minnesota, I know *exactly* what happened after the Wellstone funeral.

You ready? Ready for it?

We elected Norm Coleman to the Senate. He's a dude who spent most of his life as a Democrat, but turned Republican when he saw the tide turning nationwide, and now has his head shoved farther up G. Dubya's ass than, oh, you. Walter Mondale ran as Wellstone's replacement, and lost a close election that would have gone the other way, had it not been for the shameless grandstanding at Paul's funeral.

And for the record? Wellstone vs. Coleman? Wouldn't have been anything *near* a close race.

THAT is what happened after Wellstone's funeral. A democratic Senate seat in Minnesota turned into a Republican Senate seat in Minnesota. That is all.

You are seriously dillusional if you think Wellstone's funeral made nationwide voters go "oh, oh god. Some democrats up in frozen country are making a mockery of a great man's funeral. Wait, no, he can't be a great man, he was a democrat. Fuck 'em all, I'm voting for this Republican guy or gal."

[Emperor Norton]

Excerpt from Martin Luther King, Jr.'s, "Eulogy for the Young Victims of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church Bombing" (http://www.stanford.edu/group/King/publications/speeches/Eulogy_for_the_martyred_children.html), delivered at Sixth Avenue Baptist Church, 5 December 1955, Montgomery, Alabama:

And yet they died nobly. They are the martyred heroines of a holy crusade for freedom and human dignity. And so this afternoon in a real sense they have something to say to each of us in their death. They have something to say to every minister of the gospel who has remained silent behind the safe security of stained-glass windows. They have something to say to every politician [Audience:] (Yeah) who has fed his constituents with the stale bread of hatred and the spoiled meat of racism. They have something to say to a federal government that has compromised with the undemocratic practices of southern Dixiecrats (Yeah) and the blatant hypocrisy of right-wing northern Republicans. (Speak) They have something to say to every Negro (Yeah) who has passively accepted the evil system of segregation and who has stood on the sidelines in a mighty struggle for justice. They say to each of us, black and white alike, that we must substitute courage for caution. They say to us that we must be concerned not merely about who murdered them, but about the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced the murderers. Their death says to us that we must work passionately and unrelentingly for the realization of the American dream.

[Jakester]

Props, Nort.

American Writes:
The part about WMD and Iraq and the rest was not fine. That stuff is best left for outside the church zone.

Erm, so why can't we keep religion out of politics if we're supposed to keep politics out of the church?

[Queen Mae]

I agree with Traz 100%

And I agree with everyone else, even American, 50%.

[Adam54]

Speaking of my Junior Senator....

Norm Coleman...strumming the G. Dubya party line. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184446,00.html)

Watch the video...gets heated.

[DarkJedi]

Thank you!

I agree with myself too.

[sickness]

Speaking of my Junior Senator....

Norm Coleman...strumming the G. Dubya party line. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184446,00.html)

Watch the video...gets heated.

Well, the Dems need to stop toeing the party line as well. Before Brown resigned as well as during the immediate aftermath of his resignation, they lit him up. Now that he has been gone a sufficient amount of time, they're playing the violin for him in a weak attempt to pin this back on the Bush administration. The fact is, Brown, the Administration, and various Congressional Committees that did nothing to pass more money for levee improvement in preceeding years, as well as the level of bureaucracy present in Washington are all to blame to some degree and to try to foist it all on the President or all away from him or all away from Brown or all on Brown, etc., etc., is just plain retarded. I'm so fucking sick of all the politics going on in place of the nation's business. I'm done with both major parties until they each suck it up and look for solutions rather than trying to spell the other's demise.

[DarkJedi]

I'm so fucking sick of all the politics going on in place of the nation's business. I'm done with both major parties until they each suck it up and look for solutions rather than trying to spell the other's demise.

I certainly hear you on that, however, don't know know how long you're going to wait for that to happen.


Never or a very long time comes to mind.....bout the time when Jakester gives up on cars and decides to use flying pigs as moving transportation, while dressed in a pink tutu.

Edit: I'm not really sure why I added the pink tutu. That's not exactly crazy for Jakester.

[Space Tycoon]

Give Bobby a little credit. He was willing to somewhat humor Hoover that King was a communist. He allowed Hoover to tap King for 30 days. That was it. After that, he told Hoover to pull the plug. Hoover, with his rampant paranoia over communism (plus his bigotry), did not. He continued to tap King wherever he went.


The kid's learning. I'll give him that. :)

[Intelligent_Design]

I'm so fucking sick of all the politics going on in place of the nation's business. I'm done with both major parties until they each suck it up and look for solutions rather than trying to spell the other's demise.


I agree. Now is the time for a viable 3rd party candidate that has the nation's/world's best interest as the platform.

[Queen Mae]

They make politicians like that?

[Minion]

They make politicians like that?
http://www.phildennison.net/kodos.jpg

Minion: Why yes....yes they do.

[Emperor Norton]

http://www.phildennison.net/kodos.jpg

Minion: Why yes....yes they do.

I AGREE!

http://library.sdsmt.edu/friendsvideos/Mr.%20Smith%20Goes%20to%20Washington%20f.jpg

ODJ, please feel free to edit this out it's too contrary, or too large.

[DarkJedi]

Great movie.

[Emperor Norton]

Hmm.

I *knew* I posted *something* last night, I just wasn't sure what.

At least now I know roughly how late it was that I came back from dinner and "a couple drinks" with friends.

[Space Tycoon]

This was a great movie:





http://semitrue.com/images/2003/03/20/bush_we-werent-soldiers.jpg

[tstone]

I gotta say, there is some comment about how Carter set up the scenarios Bush is currently dealing with. That's not entirely accurate. Carter was way ahead of his time in trying to stear this country into alternate energy and moving away from dependence on foreign petroleum. And one of the things that triggered it was his energy crisis during that day.

Then, along comes Reagan. And tho I like the Reagan admin for several things, like turning attention to a neglected American military and the like, the Reagan's energy policy was just as neanderthal as the Bushies. Underlined by tearing out the energy efficiencies, such as solar collectors, that Carter had put in the White House. I mean, WTF?

So, it was Reagan and his typical of conservative head in the sand attitude on energy, cowtowing to American energy tycoons and their narrow agenda, that helped set us up for what we are now going through.

Drill in Alaska is the best they can offer?

Please...

If Bush were serious about dealing with these issues, he would really show some out of the box thinking. But to do so would offend his oil baron pals and dent their bottom lines.

Fat chance, with the emphasis on FAT.

[American]

The fact is, Brown, the Administration, and various Congressional Committees that did nothing to pass more money for levee improvement in preceeding years, as well as the level of bureaucracy present in Washington are all to blame to some degree and to try to foist it all on the President or all away from him or all away from Brown or all on Brown, etc., etc., is just plain retarded.
Let's not forget the losers at ground zero: The Levee Board.

Where the money went (http://www.nationalledger.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=1&num=665)

I'm so fucking sick of all the politics going on in place of the nation's business. I'm done with both major parties until they each suck it up and look for solutions rather than trying to spell the other's demise.
A vast majority of Americans are sick of it. You are not alone. If there were a decent 3rd party candidate, he or she would be voted on in miliseconds


Drill in Alaska is the best they can offer?

Please...
In my opinion, it's the best one in the short term. Remember...it takes a while for nuke plants to be built.

[Adam54]

Wow.
Sorry Skippy.
I gave you a chance, I don't know why.
Back to my ignore list you go.
Most of what you write makes my eyes hurt.

[Bokchoi Cowboy]

Wow.
Sorry Skippy.
I gave you a chance, I don't know why.
Back to my ignore list you go.
Most of what you write makes my eyes hurt.

Hey Adam, show a little backbone. How come you always bash the poor sod whenever he posts anything? He has just as much right to post as you, me, or anyone else here. Go ahead and be pissed at him, or refute what he says, but don't always act like he is the village idiot the minute he makes a statement.

[DaForce]

Hey Adam, show a little backbone. How come you always bash the poor sod whenever he posts anything? He has just as much right to post as you, me, or anyone else here. Go ahead and be pissed at him, or refute what he says, but don't always act like he is the village idiot the minute he makes a statement.


It's kind of hard not to given his track record.

[American]

Most of what you write makes my eyes hurt.

Mission accomplished :D

[Space Tycoon]

I agree with Bokchoi. Give the kid a chance. This is a new site, new forum. We should all be allowed to get a second chance or a fresh start or whatever.

Besides, he hasn't been obnoxious or anything.

Hey, even I've been behaving myself for the most part. :ohwell:

[TrixieB]

Hey, even I've been behaving myself for the most part. :ohwell:

Yeah, you have! When are you going to stop that? :wink::dunno:

[Space Tycoon]

Well, I was planning on starting a thong thread... :D

[tstone]

In my opinion, it's the best one in the short term. Remember...it takes a while for nuke plants to be built.[/QUOTE]



"Best one" based on...what? Whose information? What information have you gotten that this would be a solution of ANY sort, short term or not?