Famine in Africa: World's response?

[omicron]

CNN story (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/02/20/africa.starve.reut/index.html)

As many as 11 million people are threatened with starvation across east Africa because of a combination of drought and conflict, a U.N. special investigator warned on Monday

What should the nations of the world do? Should we donate food when most of it is simply wasted or misappopriated by warlords and corrupt governments? Should we demand that they reform and 'earn' the relief? Should we simply let Darwinism take it's course, and let people who live in an arid country with no viable resources or exports to simply waste away? Or should we assume it's our responsibility as fellow beings on the same planet to help others in need?

Omi

[Lavoruis]

There never will toal peace, in this world their will always be conflicts
no matter what stupid.... Bono... or any person says......
Africa, will most likely not surive it self.
I can see about 80% of native africans will be whiped out by there own people or disease in about 25 to 30 yrs or sooner.
There never will be a solution to africa's or the middle easts infighting.
I learned to accept it.

[Space Tycoon]

We would have to ask ourselves why this famine is taking place to begin with. Many people assume that famines are a result of nature. However, a great many famines are in fact man-made. A slow, hands-off form of genocide. This was true of the Irish Potato Famine; Stalin's deliberate starvation of the Ukrainian people in the Holodomor; Mao's disastrous Great Leap Forward; Ethiopia's famine which was a direct result of collective farming policies; etc.

In the short run we should do something, obviously. But in the long run, African problems will have to be solved by African nations. There is no natural excuse for any mass starvation in Africa, only political excuses. While poverty is widespread, Africa is in fact a very rich continent in resources of every kind. With a few exceptions, Africa has the very worst leadership in the world.

Foreign aid, inevitably, ends up bolstering this leadership, only incidentally helping anyone in need. A new generation of governance, both economic and political, is called for. As with the mideast, there is only so much we can directly accomplish through our direct intervention.

[Intelligent_Design]

We would have to ask ourselves why this famine is taking place to begin with. Many people assume that famines are a result of nature. However, a great many famines are in fact man-made. A slow, hands-off form of genocide. This was true of the Irish Potato Famine; Stalin's deliberate starvation of the Ukrainian people in the Holodomor; Mao's disastrous Great Leap Forward; Ethiopia's famine which was a direct result of collective farming policies; etc.

In the short run we should do something, obviously. But in the long run, African problems will have to be solved by African nations. There is no natural excuse for any mass starvation in Africa, only political excuses. While poverty is widespread, Africa is in fact a very rich continent in resources of every kind. With a few exceptions, Africa has the very worst leadership in the world.

Foreign aid, inevitably, ends up bolstering this leadership, only incidentally helping anyone in need. A new generation of governance, both economic and political, is called for. As with the mideast, there is only so much we can directly accomplish through our direct intervention.


Regardless of what Bush says, Nigeria is one of the most corrupt Governments on the face of the earth. The most of Africa is controlled by regional warlords and Muslim extremist. If you live there and you don't play by their rules you starve or shot.

[Jakester]

I'll send them all that food I didn't eat at the dinner table when I was a kid.

[Space Tycoon]

You need more than political reform to correct Africa's problems. People used to think that all you needed was to replace the rule of the strongmen with some sort of democracy, and voila! Prosperity, peace and justice would prevail throughout the continent. (Sounds familiar...:rolleyes: )

This article (http://www.inwent.org/E+Z/content/archive-eng/10-2003/edit_art1.html) makes a pretty good case for building and strengthening a civil society within these countries.

Civil society is the keyword that must now be set. The changes in Africa cannot come from above, but only from the bottom. In Kenya, a new political culture has been built up over many years, with some help from outside (such as from the German political foundations).

[Corporal_Hicks]

Building a civil society is the logical move.

Unfortunately the entire concept of a civil society totally interferes with the interests of those who are in charge.

Lets face it, no matter how many cans of "green beans" us evil Americans (or Brits, or Europeans, or Aussies, or whatever) send over there, the Africans will never have enough food until they figure out how to can their own "green beans".

That, of course, would require some form of a capitalistic economy.

Like Tycoon said though, it's up to them, really.

[MPG]

CNN story (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/02/20/africa.starve.reut/index.html)What should the nations of the world do? Should we donate food when most of it is simply wasted or misappopriated by warlords and corrupt governments? Should we demand that they reform and 'earn' the relief?There was a thread about this on the "old" Cinescape boards not too long ago. I guess I'll just try to reiterate what I said then: The "aid will be misappropriated" argument is just a silly excuse for not helping. First of all, not every African country that is dealing with famines is ruled by warlords and corrupt governments - some actually have fairly regular western-style democracies. Second, even if the rulers are corrupt warmongers, I don't see how they could misappropriate the help provided by groups like "Doctors Without Borders". Third, even if only one cent out of each Dollar that is donated to poor countries actually went to the people who need the money, it would still be better than nothing at all.

[Space Tycoon]

That, of course, would require some form of a capitalistic economy.

There are things we have done to retard that process. For one thing, there have been times when we've undercut the efforts by some African leaders to build an independent, capitalist economy.

Jonas Savimbi, for example. He was an Angolan revolutionary who was certainly capable of authoritarianism and violence. What made him different, however, was that he believed capitalism and self-sufficiency would propell Africans forward, rather than socialism, as was the case with so many other African leaders.

During the Cold War he was one of our guys in southern Africa, holding the Communists at bay. After the fall of the USSR he was branded a "terrorist" and it became politically expedient to deal with the marxist government instead.

Imagine if he'd been able to build his vision of a independent, capitalist African country. Angola has been called the "breadbasket of Africa." I've read that countries like Angola, not to mention Zimbabwe, could feed all the millions of starving and poor throughout sub-Saharan Africa, if only it was properly governed. Instead, we have guys like Robert Mugabe cleansing his country of the white farmers and anyone else who stands in his way.

Anyway. The point is, Africa needs more than just more aid and elections. They need the foundations for wealth creation.

[Space Tycoon]

UN launches $500m emergency fund (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4788298.stm)




.

[DaForce]

I think we should take a page from American's playbook:

Who cares? We're the world's only superpower. We can do whatever we want, whenever we want. If that means to eradicate the theocratic assholes from Iran's goverment or carpetbomb Damascus for allowing foreign terrorist to cross into Iraq, then so be it.

A heavy hand goes along way.

The masses may scream and whine...so what? It's not like we haven't heard it before. And if they start causing too much trouble, they'll get bitch-slapped.



Change Iran to Africa, and you've got a world class response to the problem. :smirk:



Remember American's motto: "Kill em all! Let God sort em out!"

[Space Tycoon]

Well... in fairness to the lad, I think he'd be willing to leave the Africans alone.

As long as Niger doesn't sell anymore of that yellowcake to the Iraqis... then it'd be time to send in Chuck Norris! :lol:



.

[Corporal_Hicks]

The solution is simple: Rock Concert!!!

[Meathead]

Carpet bomb 'em all!
Death Squads for Dictators!
Raze the trouble spots to the ground and then let Halliburton rebuild them all with no-bid contracts!

[Lavoruis]

Carpet bomb 'em all!
Death Squads for Dictators!
Raze the trouble spots to the ground and then let Halliburton rebuild them all with no-bid contracts!
I like the way you think.
but I will go one step further;
Sterilize them all in other words fix the males and females so they
can never have anymore children. This in would 20 years
would solve the hunger problem in that country

[Bokchoi Cowboy]

I like the way you think.
but I will go one step further;
Sterilize them all in other words fix the males and females so they
can never have anymore children. This in would 20 years
would solve the hunger problem in that country


You are way to compasionate! Why bother with some sort of long term plan of eliminating the offending people before they are born...where the hell is the fun in that? Nah, good old fashioned genocide, yeah, that's the ticket! Kill them all and let God sort 'em out....



*

[American]

What should the nations of the world do? Should we donate food when most of it is simply wasted or misappopriated by warlords and corrupt governments? Should we demand that they reform and 'earn' the relief? Should we simply let Darwinism take it's course, and let people who live in an arid country with no viable resources or exports to simply waste away? Or should we assume it's our responsibility as fellow beings on the same planet to help others in need?
Demand that they reform and earn the relief. If Mugabe stops his version of Israeli bulldozing operations and land destruction, then maybe Bush won't see the guy as a loser, will sit down and hammer out a deal for relief. Same goes for the rest of the bunch.


Second, even if the rulers are corrupt warmongers, I don't see how they could misappropriate the help provided by groups like "Doctors Without Borders".
Believe me...they'll find ways. The Taliban found one....take em hostage and put a bullet in their head. That's how they are doing it now


Remember American's motto: "Kill em all! Let God sort em out!"
hate to say this DaForce, but you've got me wrong on this


Well... in fairness to the lad, I think he'd be willing to leave the Africans alone.
Hey...i'm all for helping those poor people. Besides the dictators, the problem with them is that they breed like rabbits, and usually they pass on the HIV virus. How can we fund that?

What we need to do is to get them stopping popping out kids every five minutes. That'd be a good start. Sending condoms down there just encourages it.

[DaForce]

Demand that they reform and earn the relief. If Mugabe stops his version of Israeli bulldozing operations and land destruction, then maybe Bush won't see the guy as a loser, will sit down and hammer out a deal for relief.


Too bad G.W. is just as big (actually bigger) of a loser when it comes to human rights, foreign policy, domestic policy, and....well....everything.

[Intelligent_Design]

What we need to do is to get them stopping popping out kids every five minutes. That'd be a good start. Sending condoms down there just encourages it.


Wow!! Maybe they shold have forced abortions too? I nominate you for world Population Controller.

[kah]

Wow!! Maybe they shold have forced abortions too? I nominate you for world Population Controller.

This reminds me of a proposal a few years back... I don't know if it was just Wisconsin, but the govt was considering sterilization for crack mothers. After 1 crack baby, the govt would pay to get their tubes tied so they couldn't shoot out an even dozen welfare crack babies.

[kah]

CRACK (http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1998/07/cov_10feature.html)

Read up. Refers to my previous post.

[American]

Wow!! Maybe they shold have forced abortions too?
It couldn't hurt

[Space Tycoon]

Hey, it works for the Communists... (http://www.lycos.com/info/abortions--communist-china.html)




.

[Lavoruis]

They should have population control here not as extreme as china.
But start it when they are you implant a device that would not allow the woman to concieve ,nora plant was a joke! something far more effective...this would control who was kids no longer letting dumb foreigners ,
drug addicts, dumb teenage girls, etc, from having un needed children
to burden the world with .
Only reasponable people could be allowed to have children.
I want the job as population controler:D

[Intelligent_Design]

It couldn't hurt


Wow So I guess you righty's culture of life , pro-life stance, shifts from day to day.

[Space Tycoon]

In my case, the opposite. I used to be pro-abortion, up until last year. Then it dawned on me that abortion on demand (even the supposedly "humanitarian" variety proposed above) is just a slower, stealthier form of genocide.




.

[MPG]

Well, at least some people are doing something worthwhile:
Poverty-Stricken Africans Receive Desperately Needed Bibles (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46226)

[Intelligent_Design]

Well, at least some people are doing something worthwhile:
Poverty-Stricken Africans Receive Desperately Needed Bibles (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46226)

Don't you know? Bible Pages make a great soup for starving people.

[sickness]

I'm laughing my ass off thinking of the Starvin' Marvin episodes of South Park.

[KingVoyeur]

Well, at least some people are doing something worthwhile:
Poverty-Stricken Africans Receive Desperately Needed Bibles (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46226)

I love how they had money donated from Applebees and Church's Chicken, and held "bake-offs, barbeques and pie-eating contests" to raise money to give Bibles to starving people. Did it never occur to them to give all that food instead? :rolleyes:

[Intelligent_Design]

I'm laughing my ass off thinking of the Starvin' Marvin episodes of South Park. You are right, that SP is perfect for this story.

[Emperor Norton]

I love how they had money donated from Applebees and Church's Chicken, and held "bake-offs, barbeques and pie-eating contests" to raise money to give Bibles to starving people. Did it never occur to them to give all that food instead? :rolleyes:

Um... either your satire-detector needs recalibrating, or my irony-meter is on the fritz.

:)

[Senormac]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Senormac/africanpoverty.jpg

This picture was taken by photographer, Kevin Carter, in 1994 and won a Pulitzer Prize. The picture depicts a famine stricken child crawling towards a United Nations food camp located just under a mile away. The vulture was waiting for the child to die, so that he could eat it. The world was shocked when it saw this picture. No one knows the outcome of this situation (including Kevin Carter, who left the scene immediately after taking the picture.) Carter committed suicide three months later after suffering severe depression.

[Space Tycoon]

Which country was that?



.

[Senormac]

I really do not know Spacey.....but it sure is tragic.......

the thing is....Carter prob saw tons of scenes like this.....and the idea of stopping to help them was just not a possibility....in his thinking....

I don't know.... but I have a feeling that after the Pulitzer......the outcry about this pic....haunted him......

[Space Tycoon]

I was just wondering if this famine, like so many others, was man-made as opposed to natural.

It would feel like a hollow victory indeed, to wield a Pulitzer Prize for recording the last moments of that child, when you could have done something.




.

[MPG]

The world was shocked when it saw this picture. No one knows the outcome of this situation (including Kevin Carter, who left the scene immediately after taking the picture.)
He left the scene instead of helping the child? And he won a prize for that?

:eek:

[kah]

What's really sad is the people who say "I can't save everyone!" and convince themselves that what they can give is not enough, so they give nothing instead. You do what you can. If you can donate money, even a little bit, you may not help everyone, but you can help 1 person. Maybe you can donate time. Maybe blood, or plasma. Maybe just understanding. Something is better than nothing.

Red Cross (http://www.redcross.org/)

Smile Train (http://www.smiletrain.org/support_us/make_a_donation.htm)

Salvation Army (http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_usn.nsf)

Doctors Without Borders (http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/)

Or even just donate your used cell phone to your local women's shelter. They will get it reprogrammed to only dial 911, so a battered woman has a lifeline.