Darth Who?

[Kaeos]

Alright Jedi man,

I'm finished with Sacrifice (Star Wars: Legacy of The Force for anyone going...WTF is he talking about)

I'm very interested in getting a good discussion about the SW - EU books in general here but I am going to need you to lead me on the protocol of this type of discussion, ie spoilers and such. I'm not too versed in how these book duiscussions go.

So anyway should I be left with a profound sense of dissapointment here at the end of this book, Sacrifice?

and BTW...

What the hell does Caedus mean? I don't get it.

[omicron]

Hmm haven't read Legacy of the Force yet. I was in the middle of the New Jedi Order series before I got sidetracked. Just finished rereading Survivor's Quest.

[DarkJedi]

Get to it, Omi...Remember to read the Dark Nest trilogy by Troy Denning (set 5 years after the NJO series ends..). This Dark Nest trilogy is a setup for Legacy. You're in for some shocking changes...

Kaeos,

Caedus is an invention based on the Latin verb cædo, cædere (the noun form of which is cæsum, not cædus) which means "to cut" or "to kill".

Ironically, the name he can no longer be known as...Jacen..is an invention based on "Jason" which means in Greek, "healer"....

So, he's truly gone now. He's went from "healer" to "cut and kill".

Have you bought Inferno yet, Kaeos? Troy Denning wrote this one...It's short but its awesome. It's straight up action and the lightsaber battle betweek Caedus and errr..."some farmboy" is....unbelievable. It's straight ass action. Inferno came out two weeks ago..

I'm still wondering if this series is going to end on a positive note or not..

Here's the titles of the last 4 books:

Inferno (Out)
Fury (due out November)
Revelation(due out February 2008)
Invincible( due out May 2008)

With that kind of name, I have this knacking feeling that this won't be pretty..I have a feeling that people will find out Jacen killed Mara for sure in Revelation..or perhaps Caedus will find out about something which is revealed in "Inferno"--(You'll understand what I'm referring to when you pick it up.)...Something big will be revealed. Troy Denning finishes the series with a hardback called Invincible...THAT title worries the hell out of me!

[Kaeos]

I don't not have Inferno yet. I think I will likely break down this week and buy it instead of waiting for it to hit the library. Right now I am perusing the classics and trying like hell to get through "So long and thanks for all the Fish".

Ugh.

So anyway, yeah, I am seriously feeling a bit let down here. Everything that's happening is just too predictable for me. I picked Jason out as a future Dark Lord way back when he finished his "training" with Vergre.

I'm not happy with the abrupt let down of Mara's death. It just doesn't jibe with me. And how fucking thick is Ben's head that he doesn't see the truth? He knows Jacen was in with Lumiya. Granted he thinks Jacen was being manipluated. But is he just deluding himself? Is he purposely blocking out the obvious truth? He told Luke all about it. He was with Lumiya when Mara died. He knows jacen was on the planet. Just frustrating.

I'm glad to hear that there are 4 more books here. I'm not so thrilled to hear that Inferno is short.

How short? Like 200 pages short?

Ugh.

[DarkJedi]

290 pages Paperback but there is a Q&A session with all 3 writers for the series with Random House..and there are some pointed questions asked to them. Much because of what what happened in Sacrifice. And there's an excerpt for FURY. :)

And do not worry.....Rest assurred, Ben knows wh........ You will see when you pick up the next book.

Inferno is a very fast read. It's a straight ass action book with absolutely no filler including a lightsaber battle that hasn't been seen quite a long time in regards to the book series..

People have been wondering why is Luke is so restrained..Is weakness or age getting to him. LoL Not by you will see soon. It's clear that Luke is just guarded and hasn't revealed his "powers" to anyone, not even friends and family. You shall see.

[DarkJedi]

Are you reading Inferno yet, dipshit?:popcorn:

[Kaeos]

Back off cable monkey! :lol: I just finally broke down and bought it today...

Did you know that Walmart sells new paperbacks for $6 here? Wow.

I'll get back to you with my WTF moments as I progress chief. Keep yer panties on!

[DarkJedi]

lol Chop Chop :D

[Kaeos]

110 pages left to go. Here's where I'm at so far. I think I'm posting this now Jedi man for you, I know i always enjoy watching someone else work through a book I've already finished LOL. My hope is you'll enjoy a little smug satisfaction at how little I know about what's going on.....:Smirk:

Anyway...

I'm gonna call bullshit on something you mentioned earlier.
quote: It's a straight ass action book with absolutely no filler.

Sorry man but the first freekin hundred pages was almost nothing BUT fluff. The brief battle at the funeral was about the only action to be found. For a 300 page book, that's a bit of a let down.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about character development. I thoroughly enjoy the character Alema Rar. I hope there is much much more to her. But the place I'm feeling a void here is Ceadus. Dennig's books are not usually this transparent. His "journey" to the point of no return is a bit thin. Denning keeps fallng back on the same damn lines.

"Securing the future of the Galaxy for Allana"
"Ridding the galaxy of the war and strife tearing it apart"
"He would be forced to betray his friend and family time after time...yet he could never shrink form those sacrifices"
"Just one of the many scrifices he was making to bring peace to the galaxy"

It's just...very thin. Put it this way. If this series were to make it to the big screen, you might as well have Hayden come back and play Jacen blubbering about losing his mommy again. I can't find any real substance behind his actions.

Now I'm at the point of burning the Wroshyr trees and Kashyyykto the ground. Maybe I'm just too much of a long term fan here, but *yawn* Alderran all over again. How original. You want to make it interesting? Where is the force ghost of Anakin Skywalker to council him?

Sith Lords form 5000 years ago were able to assert themselves on Yavin. Vader's only been dead for 40 years or so. I just don;t buy the "Path of Ceadus" yet. I need more meat here.

I'm seeing (hopefully) some important parts to be played by Tahiri. Alema certainly has a lot left to do, She just landed on Korriban.

Shit better start happenin' or I'm gonna force pinch some sucker's neck all Vader style beyotch!


Okay, I'm done bitching. I'll get back to ya when I finish the book. :D

[DarkJedi]

I'll be awaiting...

lol Sounds you're not really enjoying this series at all though I have some feelings on that one with my own thoughts about the events that transpired here in the first 6 books playing an effect on those thoughts.. :)

[Kaeos]

Enjoying the series? Yes. I mean come on! I love the Expanded Universe!

It's these last 2 books that have me shaking my head to some degree.

None the less I want more.:D

[Kaeos]

Ooookay. I'm done.

So.

Tell me again

how this is not just a sad re-hashing of the story of Anakin Skywalker? Man I am really trying here, but this story line is just not doing it for me. I look at how powerful the Yuzzahn Vong invasion was, how original and refreshing that story line was to the SW Universe. It created new legenday characters and in a lot of ways surpassed (for me anyway) the satisfaction of seeing episodes 1-3.

Specific to Inferno - I did enjoy the authors' interview with Random House at the end of the book. It's always cool to get direct insights into the crafting of the stories and something I am not used to seeing.

Back to the series, Jacen is....just pale. There's no depth to Darth Ceadus. It's just Anakin all over again. Waah! I'm the only one that knows how to save the galaxy and no one is listening to me. Waah! I have to sacrifice what I love for the galazy! Waah! My family and friends have turned on me!

My issue here I think is just the writing itself. Ben comes across as a paroday of teenage angst. Mara's death was was like a dud firecracker. Wow, so now Luke decides to stop being some intraspective monk and suddenly he's the greatest Jedi that ever lived. Really? Where was this Luke during the YV War?

Trying to find the good points, I did get a small measure of satisfaction in the way the lightsaber battle unfolded, but he aftermath of that battle...oh wait, there was an aftermath. Father and son walked off into the sunset together, the screen shrank to a small circle and porky pig popped out a-thee a-thee a-thee a-that's all folks!

Look, I am a quiet SW-EU fanatic. I love these characters. I am just really let down here by how their being used. It's time to see this story line filled out. Jacen will eventually be killed and we'll be right back to where we were. Nothing gained, nothing lost. Just a few more scarred psyches left over.

Time to move on. Let's move this Universe forward and get to Ben at age 40. Alana at age 25. Lets see Luke at age 80 Become One With The Force. It's time for Star Wars to avoid the mistake Star Trek made. Move forward.

*climbs down from soap box* :o

So when does Fury come out? :D

[DarkJedi]

Sounds like you REALLY didn't have fun with this series. These are the top 3 writers from the Vong series too. Denning being the most popular from the Vong series and this series..

Oh well, the one person here who I can talk the series with hates it. lol :)

[Kaeos]

You know what it is DJ? I think I just feel like I could have written it better.

Which is absolutely rediculous, of course. But it's that kind of monday morning quarterback thing for me.

But I still LOVE the series and by golly I will be picking up Fury and I will see it though.

I wasn't a huge fan of the Rogue Squardron books either, but I read them and Wedge is the man!

I'll digress and say it has it's good points...come on scrappy, lets chat - I feel the same way you do, very few poeple have any interest in this genre or if they do they aren't speaking up. So I'm still game for a dialogue.:D

[DarkJedi]

Understand. You'll continue to bear it till the end. :D

I think this series is probably the most least liked from some SW fans is because of the overall storyline that has progressed here. Jacen has went from one of the most loved & humbling characters to one of the most hated & conceited characters in such a quick fashion.

It's not just that though. It feels like the end of all the characters we've known for so long, Kaeos.

I know the last novel's title in this series really worries me. Invincible. What kind of book title is that for an ending? It's not like the "Unifying Force"...It's a word that I can't associate with "And they lived happily ever after.." if you catch what I'm saying here.

The series feels like the end of most of the characters we've come to love.

As far as Ben's character being so goofy, I agree that some of the writers certainly don't know how to write from a kid's perspective. The only one that has a handle on making more adult is Troy Denning. The rest have him blindly following Ja...Darth Caedus like an idiot child. Denning thankfully said "Enough is enough!"..

But yes, I think some of the negativity I feel myself inside while reading this series is the unknown....The fact that this feels like the end for a lot of the major characters.

It feels almost like Del Ray and Randomhouse are preparing to pass the torch off to new characters...the offspring of the major characters.

Now, it's just a question of who else is going to die before they exit? Will they go out peacefully and fade away or will they die abruptly as it tends to be with some of these major characters?

[Kaeos]

You know, you bring up a good point about Jac...Ugh. Ceadus. :lol:

Kind of looking back, I don't think he's ever really been given a fair treatment from a character development standpoint, going all the way back to the Vong War.

He's always kind of been passed off as just really easy-going and aloof, but I look at the sudden and stark turn they've taken him down and it makes me realize that no one has ever really given him any depth at all.

Personally, I was never a huge fan of the red head anyway. I just never grasped that character either, at the very least to say she may have won the farmboy's heart, but she never won mine. As for Ben...yeah can we say unfortunate victim of circumstance? I'm sure there were all kinds of grand plans for him too, but now he's been boxed into a corner as just sort of another regular Jedi kid no more special than any of the others. And that's unfortunate since I am certain he was "brought in" to become who Anakin Solo didn't get to be.

I will make an allowance for the writing here with respect to one character. Boba Fett. I love this guy. I love every facet of his character. He's the most interesting part of the story and I hold some glimmer of hope that

he will play a major role in bringing Jacen down. See, I think that title for the last book "Invincible" is talking about Luke. Not Jacen. Remember that neat little trick Jacen pullled with Nom Anor? Making him disolve into the force? I think in the end Jacen won't be able to stand against Luke.

I have to say your right about the loss of well loved characters. Who's left? Han is going to be in a hover chair before too long. Wedge is basically out of the picture. The Jedi Council has been a side note through this whole series. Seba Sabbatine, Coran Horn, Kyp Durron, Kenth Hamner, these guys were like...an afterthought.

Oh well. We'll see how things play out and then hopefully we ccan move on to the future as you suggest *ahem ahem Paramount, take a hint*

Do you suppose they will hold to continuity and we'll perhaps see them move toward characters such a Kol Skywalker or even Cade Skywalker? Both interesting characters in their own right.

[DarkJedi]

LOL My older sis would definitely disagree with you on the redhead. She's one of her favorite characters since Zaun's trilogy. I don't have the heart to tell her anything about what's happening...:D

Good point on the Cade and Kol angle. I'm just wondering if Del Ray or Randomhouse will consider them canon or stick with those stories. As ya know, some are considered canon for a while and then they switch directions. Perhaps going that far into the future was too ambitious and we don't know if Ben or Jaina go different directions.

I LOVE Boba Fett, K-Man...but do you really think he could do that? Beat him? I have a feeling that's what author Karen Traviss is alluding to (besides him being her favorite character). None of the other authors are touching his character though and I know Karen writes the 8th book while Troy Denning writes the 9th and final one.

Invincible could definitely imply Luke here. For the past few years, the writers (probably on direction from Random,Del Ray & Lucasfilm) have been focusing on the children and other characters more then Luke...Perhaps, we're coming to a point where Luke finally says "Enough is enough...You think I'm weak, Caedus? Let me show you how wrong you are, buddy boy!"

Did you see what he did in Inferno? lol Caedus is still confused how did that one to him...How Luke was in the room talking yet he wasn't in the room at all...How he manhandled Caedus and had him immobile in his chair. I think there's a lot to Luke we don't know because he's been so conservative with his powers these past few years...He's drawn himself inward. Now, by the end of this series, he may come out...hence the title of the book. :D

As far as what you said earlier on Caedus always with the self pity thing...his thoughts focusing on it...I've been thinking about this for a few days now, bro and I think that's why I like his character a bit or rather how the writers are writing his character. The reason I say this is because Caedus is so wrapped up into his own little world he doesn't see the flaws and impatience in his own plan.

He just doesn't see the big picture. I like how the writers of the series are relaying to us that while he thinks he is the big man on top and the lone savior of the galaxy, he is still an idiot who doesn't see his own flaws. Take the little jabs the writers have been mentioning towards his willingness to let worlds fall away from the Alliance. Even while others around him are saying (as in the Fury excerpt).."Umm, we're about to lose the Corporate Guild...AND the Imperial Sector.."...Caedus responds with "Who cares, all I care about is the Hapan sector." Admiral Nia just sits there in silence pondering this lunacy.

The writers are showing us that no matter how much Caedus thinks he's in charge, he is no Palpatine. Palpatine waited 30 years...lol..30 years to become Emperor. He had infinite amounts of patience and let things slide into place over a long period of time. Caedus on the other hand doesn't see these mistakes for what they are...He doesn't see the end game when supposedly he's doing this all because of the end game (force walk).

He's a git...and that's sorta why I like his character and yet hate it at the same time. As I said a few posts up, I do find it a little distressing that the character that loved animals on Yavin and promoted peace and understanding between species has turned into a monster...so quickly. On the other hand, I like how the writers are saying to us.."Don't worry folks, Caedus is no Palpatine..."

It is nice to talk SW here finally too.. :)

[omicron]

ok, I am not reading this series at all, but I have to ask a question. How the hell is Boba Fett still around?? He'd be over 100yrs old by now.

[DarkJedi]

Heh 70. His age and his health are touched upon, omi.. :D

[omicron]

Ok I was skipping around wookieepedia and messed up the timeline. Still, come on, a 70yr old bounty hunter who went through the stomach of the Sarlaac could take down the new Dark Lord of the Sith? Don't think so. :)

[DarkJedi]

lol I agree that I don't think he has the powers to take out a Sith Lord like Caedus.

The good thing is I bet it doesn't come to that..Karen Traviss is the one touching Boba's story in this and she's writing book 8 called "Revelations"...I guess by the title, Boba will have a major impact on Caedus for something which occurred in book 2 between the two characters but I don't see him taking the Sith out. Karen would certainly be stretching things if she did..

[Kaeos]

I'm going to tell you something.

Boba Fett, at age 70 is tougher than he was in his prime. His life is about beating death. People of his own "world" I put that in quotes because it's complicated...fear and respect him. He's essentially a hair's breath away from dying in most of theis series, but he keeps winning. It's such a deep story it's amazing.

I'd put my money on Fett to take on Ceadus and at the very least get out of it alive.

I never suggested that Fett would be the one to take him down, I suggested he'd play a major part since

Jacen Solo tortured and killed Fett's only daughter under interrogation. It's stated clearly that he's got a score to settle and is only biding his time.

Again, I agree. Alone, he wouldn't be a match. But he would damn sure make a difference. :D

[DarkJedi]

lol Damn Right, he would. I agree.

Like I said earlier, he has a part to play in all this and it's fitting we shall see him next in a book called "Revelations".

He's going to make an impact. A big one. :D

[Kaeos]

..... we shall see him next in a book called "Revelations".

He's going to make an impact. A big one. :D

:eyebrow: you got some...uh inside info there sparky?

Anyway, so here is the cover of Fury

http://www.starwars.com/eu/lit/novel/img/20070601_sm.jpg

Just taking a guess here, but I am assuming this is Ben?

[Kaeos]

Just about 100 pages from being done with Revelations. Not sure how I feel about this one.

I've been a huge Karen Traviss fan throughout all her SW EU books, but I am just feeling like some of the major plot point are being glossed over. Thus far the trio of Alston, Denning and Traviss have flowed very well together through these "Legacy" books. But with this one I see a few major plot departures from Fury. Case in point, wasn't Alana the all important center of everything to him?!?!? In Revelation she is conveniently "written off" (no pun intended) by Jacen and suddenly Jaina is all important.

By the by, it seems in this book Traviss is like....desperate to tie this story in with Episodes I, II, and III. I've lost count of how many times Naboo has been mentioned here.

Anyone up to speed with me so far?

edit: hmm..got's me a thread idea.

[DarkJedi]

Agree with you.

What bothers me about Traviss is her fascination with Fett and Mandalorians. I understand sneaking in a favorite character into a book by an author but Traviss is putting too much into them and it's taking away from the rightful characters at the center of the series. You'll see what I mean later into the book, K.

I mean, I know Fett is tough and the Mandalorians are tough...but Traviss keeps throwing in shots at the Jedi way and how Mandalorians are more tough and have the moral arguement over the Jedi.

I'm sorry but Traviss should do some fact checking...Mandalorians and the Sith had their own destructive ways for thousands of effing years in the backstory for the SW EU.

This is called Legacy of the Force....not Legacy of the Fett, Miss Traviss.

And you're right on Allana being a second thought to Caedus here. Absolutely no mention of Tenel, Allana or Hapes..Sheesh, Traviss.

I can't wait for Denning's final novel. Denning did some of the best Vong series books and its fitting he's ending the series. He's also a good writer for Jaina...so I have faith in his writing style.

Plus, Denning will have characters that matter...Wedge, Luke, Han, Jaina, Leia, Tenel, Allana...As opposed to just centering on one set of characters which are secondary at best to the overall story (i.e Mandalorians).


If there's one positive out of this book, I'm pleased with how Travis did the Ben-Luke scenes. It's about time the two started treating each other like Father and Son...and it's about time Ben started loving his father as opposed to the rebellious teenager mode...After all that has happened to them.

[tstone]

Jerrod, when you wrote "mandalorians", for a second, I saw "midichlorians".

Almost vomited.


:puke:

[DarkJedi]

lol Trey.

K, you finished that last 100 pages yet? Something in there that's bothered me.

[Kaeos]

Real close, feels like the story is winding down.

Jaina just discovered the Jedi-Mando whom I will be looking up later for confirmation, and he restored Sintas Vel's sight

[Kaeos]

Okay. Finished.

I'm bracing for a huge let down with Invincible. The bits at the end with Jaina's "revelation" were void of any oomph. It wasn't dramatic or exciting in any way.

[DarkJedi]

Alright, here's my thoughts on the final pages of Revelation..

1. Does Traviss have an issue with Timothy Zaun?? I mean, I know Admiral Pellaeon was 92 years old and had to go out sometime but this is the second ruddy character created by Zaun that she killed in the same series.

I find that just a bit strange. I wonder what Zaun feels about having two characters he created killed off by her while she extends the life for her fantasy lover Boba Fett.

2. Since when....and I do mean whennn....is Boba Fett and Admiral Daala on first name basis?? They have never had contact in any EU series as far as I know and I've read them all back to Truce at Bakura. I haven't read any of her Republic Commando books (and I won't given my dislike for Miss Traviss obsessions) but I've never seen Admiral Daala and Boba Fett come in contact together.

Not enough to justify them as "friends", attending Mirtas wedding and holding arms while walking into the sunset at the end.

3. Admiral Daala tore up the strategy books (as Niathal says in the final battle)...Oh yes, she did. She lost to Wedge frequently and time again...She lost every battle that she was in control of in the EU books. The only thing that she represents... is a blast from the past. So, why the importance of her character returning is a bit beyond me.

4. Lmao at Caedus' confession to Lon Shevu. Traviss needs a bit of help with dialogue outside of her Fett characters. When Caedus tells Shevu "Btw, I have a new title. Call me Darth Caedus...pleasee."...

I nearly burst out laughing. Then he follows up with "Technically, it's my lord."

:lol:

Rightttttt, Miss Traviss.

5. Caedus couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. Most commanders would have picked Niathal's side---even with Caedus force controlling them in battle---by just looking at his history in battle. I found it stretching a bit that he retained two thirds of the fleet, leaving Niathal in the cold.

6. Hey Han, Leia, Dad and Jaina, can you come in here? I have something to show you.

This scene should have been given utmost importance from the writer. The scene alone could have lasted 30 pages alone by giving us the thoughts from Han and Leia on the "revelation" that their son took out their sister in law.

Instead, we get a page and a half...and we get 50 more pages dedicated to Boba Fett, Sintas and Mirta ...and even more preaching from a former Jedi General turned Mando about the bad boogeymen Jedi....

Sigh...

I'll give it to her that she gave me a great scene between Luke and Ben in this novel...That part of them leaning against each other watching the sunset on Endor was classic..And I loved it.

But she really pissed me off with the last hundred pages.

And I'm feeling the opposite on you for Invincible. As I said earlier, I trust Denning with his work on the Vong series, the Nest trilogy.

Plus, I know one more thing. We're likely to see very little of Boba Fett in the final book (first chapter I bet) and more of characters that really do matter. After reading Revelation, there's only one direction to go..

Up. :)

[DarkJedi]

And to expand on #5, I'm not saying that's entirely the fault of Traviss there.

I think it's been planned by all the writers to show that Caedus is way over his head and doing things wrong, despite constantly reminding himself of his Sith status.

Sith names aren't supposed to be used openly in public, they're supposed to be their shadow personalities to their "public face". Caedus doesn't understand this and the writers seem to be hammering down how clueless he is about these things.

Sideous was around for 3 decades before he took power under his "public face", Palpatine. He never revealed his Sideous name in public even to the end..As a true Sith wouldn't do.

Caedus doesn't seem to understand this.

Which is something that likely would have been explained on that Sith holocron if Alema ever bothered to give it to him.

So, I understand that Caedus keeps failing and losing here..That seems to be the overall theme from the writers. That he can't manage things very well and he's kidding himself.

But there's a cost to that storyline..and that's what I mean by #5. Due to those purposeful defeats by the writers, I find it illogical that so many commanders would have sided with him above Fondor.

[Jynxie]

You'd have to give all that over to Force influence. Everyone follows him when he is over them. That's why Ben followed him for so long and not listened to his parents. Caedus controls people, until they can think to break free, like he did those animals in his youth. Ben saw Jacen as the hero for a long time because of the mind wipes and the tutlage he's been showing him since he brought him back to the Force.

It's been stated many times that the story is the second parallel story to Anakin Skywalkers's. As Luke's was more Anakin's story up until Anakin's change to the darkside (in the movies), Jacen's is after he became Vader. Everytime he does something someone comments that he's becoming like his grandfather. Killing subordinates, dressing in the black GAG outfit with the flowing black cape. He even thought about it when he put on a GAG helmet. Sad part is that he keeps saying that he won't become like previous Sith, but doing a worse job than they are.

Out of the Solo kids, Jacen has always been third to Anakin and Jaina. He just seemed to be a wannabe to them both.

To me Mara is the Emma Frost to Leia's Jean Grey. She's just a bad girl to Leia's goodie girl. Sure Leia is turning to a bad girl since she been hanging with Han full time, but she still set that limit. I like Mara because she set her limit, but isn't afraid to go past it.

My only question about it is what happened to Corellia?

[omicron]

I've finally started reading this series, having just finished the Dark Nest trilogy.

So far it's very interesting. The scene with Boba Fett at the end of Bloodlines was very moving.


Ok so I finished this series. Overall, it sucked pretty badly. No real resolution, no great logic on how or why Darth Cadeus changed, no great final confrontation.

[Jynxie]

The way I see it it is one big story broken up by the main villian (Vong War, Dark Nest and Legacy). Vong War planted the seeds for hm turning to the Dark Side. Vageer just made him feel like it was safe to dabble. Dark Nest let him play on his own; manipulating people all around. Legacy just put it out in the open. Since RoTS came out, it let them play more with the clones and Vader's past. Since the OT and Luke was a mirror to Anakin. They let this be a parallel with the people in the universe actually seeing it.

I just didn't like that he was a bastard then changes at the last second with a half ass redemption. If you gonna be a bastard villian, be a bastard villian. :wink: