I love Christmas...not the "Holidays"

[colmatrix]

Christmas in its true from is a time of giving, not receiving. It's a time for families to get together and throw off the cares of the world and enjoy one another. Do I think that America has gotten out of control with how much they market and commercialize it? Yeah, even Linus from Peanuts saw where it was heading. But his speech at the end of that movie is what Christmas is all about for me. So Merry Christmas to all, and to all....

[MPG]

Christmas in its true from is a time of giving, not receiving. It's a time for families to get together and throw off the cares of the world and enjoy one another.
I guess what I dislike about this whole Christmas thing is that it says a lot about a society when it needs a special time for giving, receiving and for getting together as a family.

People see the "Christmas spirit" as an ideal that is celebrated in countless movies, songs and books, but like many ideals, it is not seen as a reasonable "guideline" for everyday life. It reminds me of all those people who name Gandhi, Martin Luther King or Jesus as their idols, but their actions bear no resemblance whatsoever to the actions of Gandhi, King or Jesus. I guess most of us (I don't exclude myself) are rather hypocritical in that regard, and Christmas is the time which reminds of that the most.

[fastcar]

One of my coworkers asks me every year if I am going to the office "Holiday" Party, that she helps organize.

I tell her every year, "When you start calling it a Christmas Party, again, I'll come. Until then, no dice."

[neglet]

Call it a "Saturnalia Party," complete with drinking and debauchery, and I'll be there! :D

[kah]

Ooooo, me too!

[RedKarma]

The best part for me is that I walk around year round whistling or singing Christmas carols, so this time of year I don't look as crazy, just in the spirit.

[kah]

I need to know if this party is going to have chocolate.
















Well, I'll need to wear dark colors to camouflage the stains. What? :Dunno:

[Queen Mae]

Colmatrix - you love Christmas, but not the holidays?

So you have something against Holy Days? What did Easter ever do to you???

[fastcar]

Happy Festivus.

[Woodwraith]

Hmm, the holiday season, I guess you can add this to the What Annoys Me thread. I'm pretty much Bah humbugging it this year. When I see christmas decorations start coming out before Halloween is over, I just want to strangle someone. I'm not going to partake in the "commercialism" of Christmas this year, or maybe even next year. Also, it sucks to travel so I won't be spending time with any family. Can't afford plane tickets or gas prices when they go raising them to the point you can't afford to travel anyway. Don't get me wrong, I love spending time with family, I just can't afford to do it. Besides my family and my wife's family are scattered to the 4 winds... Delaware, Chicago, and all over California. It's near impossible to see them all, and no one's schedule ever seems to match up to make it feasable. Also, no one ever wants to come up to see us. :ohwell:

Did I just rant? :eek:

Hey do you guys know why they don't celebrate Christmas in Japan?






No L :D

[colmatrix]

Colmatrix - you love Christmas, but not the holidays?

So you have something against Holy Days? What did Easter ever do to you???

Hehe, nah, Easter is great also. I just don't like how people lump Nov 1st-Jan 1st as the "Holidays". It doesn't stop there...things like a party with Santa being labeled as the ''Holiday Party'' or any other instance where the day of Christmas is taken away from...even though traditionally over the years things like Santa, Frosty, Rudolph, etc.. are known for being CHRISTMAS characters, not ''Holiday'' characters. Call a spade a spade for goodness sake. I have no basis for my argument other than personal sentimentality, and I'm not trying to convince any one else to switch to my side. Just a personal gripe is all...

[Woodwraith]

I'm also upset with what our VP did to the Easter bunny. :mad:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnThfJU57sk :D

[Outsydr]

Yes, I guess it IS awful. All that trying to bring people together by saying "holiday" (something that can include MANY religious beliefs) instead of saying "Christmas" (which just focuses on a SINGLE religious belief).

Shame on mankind.

[spammityspam]

A big secular amen to that.

[fastcar]

Hey, I'm not saying we shouldn't have a generalized acknowledgement of multiple backgrounds when it comes to holidays that occur during the same time period, but let's face it, if you're going to start renaming things "Holiday" you aren't doing it to acknowledge multiple religions. You're doing it to remove the religious connotation, altogether.

The problem lies in the fact that Christmas garners a hell of a lot more PR than say Chanukah. You don't have an after Chanukah sale, do ya? Why not? Why doesn't Macy's capitalize on all holidays to drive up the business. Why does Black Friday have to be the biggest revenue day of the year. Why not have Black New Years or Black 5th of July?

Christmas hasn't been about Christ in America since Charlie Brown bitched about people not knowing what Christmas is all about. If anything, the Catholic Church should put a stop to all the commercialism brought on by Christmas and have the stores, media outlets, and everyone else call it something other than Christmas. It shouldn't be up to the pissed-off-with-nothing-better-to-do-but-bitch office worker to say, "Hey, I'm offended that it's being called a Christmas Party. I'm a Witness or I'm Jewish. Blah Blah Blah." But nooooo. Even though the party occurs during the month of December, it's in a company that is primarily made up of Christians and those who celebrate Christmas and more than likely that same person that bitches about the nomenclature of said party still takes off those days that are given to everyone else at the end of December instead of being true to their convictions and come in work with Sanjay, Parag, and Parvati over in IT.

That's why we say Happy Holidays, right? It covers all the bases from November to January. But me, I work in an office that celebrates Christmas, but I'm friends with people that celebrate Kwanzaa. Sometimes, my Jewish friend invites me over for Chanukah which is great because it bridges the gap with my friend who celebrates Ramadan. Now most people all bitch to me about the various holidays but I say, "Hey, wait till Festivus for the airing of Grievances, then come talk to me." That's why I need a holiday network called Festihanuwanzadammis.

And apparently we all have to celebrate Kwanzaa at Natalie's house.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwanzaa
You bring the nog, I'll bring the rum.

[spammityspam]

Thanksgiving is a secular holiday. We have a Black Friday sale because Thanksgiving immediately precedes every religion's major gift-giving days.

I'm fine with calling Christmas parties Holiday parties. I don't see why it should matter. Even if we have Santa plastered all over the walls, what's the difference? We're all getting drunk and eating way too much sugar in the name of any given god we choose to appreciate. So? Why do we demand that it be the Christian God?

So what if a majority of Americans are Christian? A majority of Americans are white. A majorty of Americans are male. A majority of Americans are in their mid-to-late thirties. Would it be better to recognize only these subsections of the population when we celebrate something, even when many different people come together? Do we say "I'm proud to be an American" or "I'm proud to be a WASP"? What's so wrong with not even celebrating diversity, but just recognizing that it exists?

Sanjay, Parag and Parvati don't show up on Christmas because they don't have to. Most business are completely shut down. On the other hand, my Buddhist manager shows up to work every single Christmas without complaint -- he doesn't celebrate it, so it has no meaning for him. He shows up to work, just like most non-Christian workers whose businesses are open on Christmas.

[Outsydr]

Hey, I'm not saying we shouldn't have a generalized acknowledgement of multiple backgrounds when it comes to holidays that occur during the same time period, but let's face it, if you're going to start renaming things "Holiday" you aren't doing it to acknowledge multiple religions. You're doing it to remove the religious connotation, altogether.

Okay. Then what would please you? GOD season? WORSHIP days??

The problem lies in the fact that Christmas garners a hell of a lot more PR than say Chanukah.
To someone that believes in it, sure! But its a common mistake that when you get so wrapped up in a belief, often you have less ability to see other sides of spectrum. Perhaps it'll help to remind you that while Christianity may be the world's largest religion, when parked next to all non-Christian beliefs, it gets dwarfed.

You don't have an after Chanukah sale, do ya? Why not? Why doesn't Macy's capitalize on all holidays to drive up the business. Why does Black Friday have to be the biggest revenue day of the year. Why not have Black New Years or Black 5th of July?
Two reasons: The first is that no other religion puts as much imphasis on the commercial aspects of a holiday as Christmas. And second, what retailer would be dumb enough to alienate millions of customers by intimating that their patronage is not welcome during one month of the year??

Christmas hasn't been about Christ in America since Charlie Brown bitched about people not knowing what Christmas is all about. If anything, the Catholic Church should put a stop to all the commercialism brought on by Christmas and have the stores, media outlets, and everyone else call it something other than Christmas. It shouldn't be up to the pissed-off-with-nothing-better-to-do-but-bitch office worker to say, "Hey, I'm offended that it's being called a Christmas Party. I'm a Witness or I'm Jewish. Blah Blah Blah." But nooooo. Even though the party occurs during the month of December, it's in a company that is primarily made up of Christians and those who celebrate Christmas and more than likely that same person that bitches about the nomenclature of said party still takes off those days that are given to everyone else at the end of December instead of being true to their convictions and come in work with Sanjay, Parag, and Parvati over in IT.
Look, Christmas is what you make of it. Seems to me that if, in your heart, you've spread joy, shared with your fellow humanity and remembered your savior, then you don't need to have the word "CHRISTMAS" handed to you in order to enjoy the season. It's what's in your heart and soul, not what's on some window banner or greeting card.

And you know, I don't recall their being some massive protest by Jews or Muslims or Hedonists or anyone else to bring a halt to the word Christmas. As I recall, it was a voluntary effort by everyone to be inclussive. Therefore, the inferrence that this is all due to Christianity being forced by some hidden power to reject itself is baseless, and smacks of someone trying to justify their own intollerance. Based on that, it seems to me that you're the one that's "bitching" about something.

[fastcar]

I'm fine with celebrating diversity. I'm all for it. Make it fun for everyone. I just have a problem with people who continually choose to seek out and destroy/alter everything that doesn't either apply to them or makes them mad.

I'm fine with calling it a Holiday Party...but our situation was strictly because some individual took offense at the word CHRISTMAS.

Guess what? I'm mostly agnostic, I could care less what they call it. I do care when we, as a society, constantly make allowances because someone feels insecure in already established events. It's the fact that it's a party, as you said. Who cares why we're celebrating? As long as we're not celebrating Ted Bundy's birthday or Skinning Puppies in the name of Baltar the Dark Lord of the Underworld, I could care less justifying a reason to get drunk and fat on the company dime.

This goes with the debate over removing God from the pledge of allegiance, naming a bear after Mohammed, and every other goofy thing that comes along from these nebshits. The latest thing that baffles me is
Sesame Street's earliest season is not suitable for kids because Cookie Monster smokes and then eats a pipe and a lost girl goes home with a stranger (Gordon) who gives her cookies. Our social and emotional immune system is being weakened. I'm all for evolving, but there are bigger things out there to change in this country than Christmas to Holiday.

Do I believe in God. It doesn't matter. I said the pledge of allegiance, including "under God" because that's what we do. It was 30 seconds of my day.

Will I go to the "Holiday" party. According to my argument, I should because who cares. I do it, because I really don't want to get dressed up and be with people I don't associate with while working. I just use the excuse to mess with my friend who is on the planning committee. They bowed down to the lowest common denominator and changed it because one person had a complaint.


Maybe I'm no better than the fun police because I pick and choose what is important to me to bitch about. Yeah, I am the vanilla of evil when it comes to what the majority of this country is made up of, people wise. I just think there are better battles to be fought than removing "Christmas" from the phrase "Christmas Holiday Season"

Next thing you know we'll be changing Independence Day to soley, "July 4th" or "Summer Holiday" because not everyone who lives here is originally a citizen from this country and we might just offend the British immigrants who have made a life here.

[colmatrix]

Look, Christmas is what you make of it. Seems to me that if, in your heart, you've spread joy, shared with your fellow humanity and remembered your savior, then you don't need to have the word "CHRISTMAS" handed to you in order to enjoy the season. It's what's in your heart and soul, not what's on some window banner or greeting card.

And you know, I don't recall their being some massive protest by Jews or Muslims or Hedonists or anyone else to bring a halt to the word Christmas. As I recall, it was a voluntary effort by everyone to be inclussive. Therefore, the inferrence that this is all due to Christianity being forced by some hidden power to reject itself is baseless, and smacks of someone trying to justify their own intollerance. Based on that, it seems to me that you're the one that's "bitching" about something.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing...bitching. Expressing my opinion, just as valid as yours or anyone else's. I'm not campaigning to rid the world of the term Holidays. As I remember, the Holidays name was used for Christmas through New Years. Or only Christmas and New Years, not the days in between. I only feel like the majority, people who celebrate Christmas, should be able to without watering it down and calling it Holidays to placate to the minority. Who gets offended hearing the word Christmas, really? What harm can it do?

[neglet]

Turn it around. Who gets offended hearing the word holidays, really? (Especially since holidays includes Christmas.) What harm can it do?

[Queen Mae]

Yes, I guess it IS awful. All that trying to bring people together by saying "holiday" (something that can include MANY religious beliefs) instead of saying "Christmas" (which just focuses on a SINGLE religious belief).

Shame on mankind.

Yeah! How dare we try to be inclusive!! The next thing you know, people will say Christianity is all about 'togetherness' and that we should be nice to the tax collectors at the IRS, the girls at the Bunny Ranch, and our neighbors!!!

What is the world coming to!!!???

:p

But I do understand what you are saying colmatrix... because of your beliefs you hold Christmas 'apart' and 'above' all other celebrations because it symbolizes the birth of Christ. But, the acknowledgement & celebration of other religions don't have to overshadow Christ - all of the different faiths represent how glorious and rich God is... when I say 'rich,' I mean 'complex.' God reveals itself to people in many different ways because God is so huge that one concept of it cannot fully encompass its awesomeness. I see these different faiths as a testament to how amazing God is.

.... oh sorry, didn't see that soapbox there.... whoops....

[Queen Mae]

Sanjay, Parag and Parvati don't show up on Christmas because they don't have to.

Well no... that's because Parvati, Shiva, & Ganesh are all still drunk from Diwali.....

[kah]

I'm offended that people tell me to have happy holidays. I hate inclusionists. What if I don't want to be included?

[Jakester]

Then eff off!

[colmatrix]

Turn it around. Who gets offended hearing the word holidays, really? (Especially since holidays includes Christmas.) What harm can it do?

Touche...

[fastcar]

I do it all the time. It's become easier to just say "Happy Holidays" because it is all inclusive. I won't piss the majority off by saying it and it's rather polite than assuming you fall into any one category of festiveness.

I like the holiday season. I just don't like it when we start showing Snoppy and Frosty the week after Thanksgiving and call it Christmastime. It used to be that Christmas started for me the moment I saw Charlie Brown Christmas. Now, the turkey isn't even cold yet and we're headlong into the holidays and it's not even Decemeber.

I agree with Colmatrix that we shouldn't have to begin being forced to waterdown our own belief system to appease the masses because he/she/it hold this bastardized holiday a little more dear and closer to it's original meaning.

I also agree that the words "Happy Holidays" are appropriate to this time of year because it is all inclusive regardless of anyone's beliefs.

But I don't agree when someone chooses to be one or the other and then gets pissed because everyone else doesn't share their view.

If I wanna say Merry Christmas, then at least acknowledge that I believe in that and I am attempting to include you and give you greetings.

If I wanna say Happy Holidays, then the same thing goes.

If someone is invited to a function that is clearly marked for one or the other, don't go and then bitch about it. Either don't go, or shut up and just enjoy the fact that someone wanted to include you in their reindeer games. Don't ruin it for someone else.

[Bokchoi Cowboy]

Well no... that's because Parvati, Shiva, & Ganesh are all still drunk from Diwali.....


Like they wait until Diwali to get all shitfaced and all that....HA!

In my personal experience (I married into the culture) Indians can outdrink and outbullshit any other ethnic group. Regardless of their religion I have seen them swill the alk like they are babes drinking mother's milk.

I kid you not. I have sat at a table with some of my in-law-relatives with one of those huge multi-liter bottles of whiskey sitting in the center. None of the others moved at all, just sat there bee-essing. Somehow, the level of the liquid kept dropping. And they somehow got drunker and drunker. Just like magic.

And that is just on a regular weekend get-together. Give them a festival happening like Diwali and all the local liquor stores run out of product. And it doesn't matter if the party is celebrating something in their particular religion. They will jump in on the celebration of anything if it means they can eat, drink, and be merry a little more than usual.

Which is actually pretty cool. They don't bash anyone else's religion and festivities, they just join in and get happy. Which is how it should be. Wish them Merry Christmas and they will respond in kind and gladly share in your spiked egg-nog and help decorate the tree. Wish them happy Hanukkah and they will reciprocate and drink some of your Manishevitz while spinning your Dreidel up to light speed. Wish them a happy Ramadan and they will smile and happily drink all the alcohol you are forgoing until after sundown on the last day of the month (well, except for the Sikhs, they will smile, drink your alcohol, and contemplate mayhem for you, but hey, thats their way, kinda like the Hatfields and the McCoys...)