4:5 - The Constant (Desmond) - Spoilers and Spec

[Queen Mae]

I really haven't been paying attention to any spoilers for this episode. I wonder if it will be flash forwards? I hope so. I'm sick of Desmond's flashbacks.

[mckracken]

how many lost-a-ways have been ID'd as part of the six?
Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley

I assumed it would be the Sun and Jin show tonight

[Jakester]

Groovy episode, but did we really learn anything? It's still 2004...I'm confussed.

[TrixieB]

Well, we learned why Daniel was chosen for this "mission" and that there is a huge time difference between the island and the rest of the world.

[Jakester]

Is there a huge time difference? It's 12/24/2004 when Desmond and Sayid get off the island. Didn't 815 crash in 9/04?

[fastcar]

Stream of thoughts

Interesting stuff. Did Daniel help Desmond for his own purposes....and what was up with his hair. He looked like Yanni on an bender. So, they finally bring Minkowski on just to kill him? When did he go to the island? I guess that's why he wasn't around to answer the phone once in awhile.

There was no acknowledgement from Sayid at Jack's concern over how long it took them to get there, strange.

Why was Penny constantly calling them? How is she associated or knew that they would be there?

[The Tyrant Virus]

I loved this episode. And I'm really starting to like Daniel, here's hoping he sticks around for a bit.

[mckracken]

this episode has hit On Demand yet so I'm still in the dark... is Frieghter boy #1 still eating his gernade breakfast or did they free him?

[alaristhered]

Here's a thought. Wasn't the huge killer tsunami in December of 2004? I wonder if they'll write it in.

Minkowski - there was a Hermann Minkowski who developed the concept of the 4th dimension of time.

Farraday - wasn't there a scientist who worked with electricity named Farraday? I seem to remember the term "Farraday cage."

[sickness]

Michael Faraday is the guy who did for electromagnetism what Newton did for gravity and Einstein did for relativity.

[alaristhered]

NICE. Good to know that someone was paying attention in physics class. (It sure as hell wasn't me.)

[sickness]

I hope I paid attention in physics class(es). That's what I got my degree in. :D

[mckracken]

there was a final shot of Desmond looking at his hand with a shocked look on his face... was that because he didnt read the numbers off correctly to Faraday back in 1997?

Is Daniel Faraday stuck between two times also and what was with his notebook entries "if it all goes wrong, Desmond Hugh is YOUR Constant"

Obviously theres more to Daniel Faraday than meets the eye, and yet they never really explained how Penny could be calling Dharma's Looking Glass Station (or the Frieghter for that matter) or how the dead chick from last season was carrying Desmond and Penny's photo. the Dead Chick's body seemed to be missing from last nights episode, they loaded her body on the helicopter two episodes back but they never showed her body being loaded off the helicopter, just Sayid and Desmond and the Copter Pilot and a few new frieghter people.

[alaristhered]

I don't think so. I think he was just bewildered, and forgot that the numbers wouldn't have been written there.

I got MY degree in music, so unless someone stages an opera on the island, I'll be pretty useless decyphering things from the show.

[Metuzalem]

This had to be one of my favourite episodes ever. Anything that features exotic physics, sci-fi motifs and vague refernces to "the device" is alright in my book :)
Seems fairly obvious now that the freighter is Charles Whitmores's, he bought the diary of one of the survivors from the Black Rock which no doubt contained directions on how to get to the island. This is also how the Hanso foundation managed to find the island, they were the ones selling the diary. So Team Whitmore and Team Hanso are rivals of some sort? Also, the freighter people were told ignore the calls from Penny - another pointer that it's her dad's.
I'm really going to hate when this show goes on hiatus.

[neglet]

there was a final shot of Desmond looking at his hand with a shocked look on his face... was that because he didnt read the numbers off correctly to Faraday back in 1997?

Is Daniel Faraday stuck between two times also and what was with his notebook entries "if it all goes wrong, Desmond Hugh is YOUR Constant"


No, I think Desmond had the right numbers; I think the shock was just part of him integrating his 1997 self and his 2004 self--remember that before then, he didn't recognize Sayid at all, but after that shot he remembered everything.

I don't think Daniel is stuck between two times ... yet. Remember, he didn't seem to recognize Desmond at all the first time they met. So maybe the island's electromagnetic phenomenon somehow changed the past or created an alternate timeline/reality. Daniel knew nothing of Desmond, yet at the end his journal mentioned him by name. Freaky. (I like freaky.)

Oh, and it's Desmond Hume, referring to yet another philosopher, David Hume. (Having Monty Python's "Philosopher's Drinking Song" committed memory is a great reference for this show.) According to Wiki, David Hume was the first great philosopher of the modern era to carve out a thoroughly naturalistic philosophy. This philosophy partly consisted in the rejection of the historically prevalent conception of human minds as being miniature versions of the divine mind. This doctrine was associated with a trust in the powers of human reason and insight into reality, which possessed God’s certification. Hume’s scepticism came in his rejection of this ‘insight ideal’, and the (usually rationalistic) confidence derived from it that the world is as we represent it. Instead, the best we can do is to apply the strongest explanatory and empirical principles available to the investigation of human mental phenomena, issuing in a quasi-Newtonian project, Hume's ‘Science of Man’.

[Jakester]

I'm really confused about the time distortion.
Didn't one of the "rescuers" comment that the Losties had been on the island a lot longer than they thought? And yet it's still 2004 -- Dec. 24, 2004 -- to be exact, when they're "rescued." That's pretty close to the 90 days that the Losties think they've been lost.

[mckracken]

perhaps the thunderhead is the crack in the snowglobe?
the problem with that is that the crack has had to have been around since before the Black rock crashed on the island.

as for the time distortion, personally, I think its just for one reason and one reason only... to explain Walt's growth spurt. Sure it makes everything a bit more freaky yet has little effect on the Lostaways (except for Desmond apparantly) or the Others or the Frieghter people... it would have also affected Charlie and Eko since they were at ground zero with Desmond but they've been killed off already.

also, lets not forget that SOMEBODY still has working co-ordinates to the island, they've been dropping food and supplies for Dharma.

[neglet]

I'm really confused about the time distortion.
Didn't one of the "rescuers" comment that the Losties had been on the island a lot longer than they thought? And yet it's still 2004 -- Dec. 24, 2004 -- to be exact, when they're "rescued." That's pretty close to the 90 days that the Losties think they've been lost.

From what we saw with the helicopter, you would think the time distortion works the other way. Less than an hour passed for Desmond and Sayid, while those left on the island experienced a day and a half. Which would mean that their "90 days" would be less "real" time.

But I don't think there's a specific formula for the time-space distortions. I think there's some kind of electromagnetic shenanigans, and it can effect time in many ways--past or present, a few hours or hundreds of years. I think time passes on the island the same as it does in the outside world, until/unless something comes into contact with the distortion that surrounds the island. Then you can be end up a dozen years or thousands of miles away.

[Queen Mae]

I hope I paid attention in physics class(es). That's what I got my degree in. :D

So what do you think of all of this time-travel stuff?

I think it's interesting that they chose not to go the physical time-travel route, but a consciousness/metaphysical route.

[fastcar]

Seems to be more logical than sci-fi.


As far as the timing thing, I was almost convinced that it's not still 2004 off the island. The writers, if anything, never just put something in for the hell of it.....unless it's Nikki and Paulo.

When Desmond made a comment about the calendar I was ready to believe that it was a clue that perhaps it's a lot later. Maybe Frank and Jack were talking about two different years that the Red Sox won the World Series. However, I think it may have been in reference to Desmond's phone call to Penny on Christmas Eve.

[Little Nell]

Perhaps it's 2004 on the boat as well (if the boat is close enough to the island). Knowing what would happen, they may have had a calendar up to keep track of what year/day the Losties (or Desmond?) would think it was.

[alaristhered]

What makes me happy is that its been stated that the future CANNOT be changed. That makes for an interesting dynamic. It goes back to what the lady who sold the ring to Desmond said - the universe has a way of correcting itself.

[Metuzalem]

See that doesn't make sense.

If the future cannot be changed that means that Desmond was "destined" to phone Penny on Christmas Eve - which he most certainly would NOT have been able to do. He wouldn't have been able to do that without getting her number which he had to get in the past. So by going back into the past to get her number it allowed him to call her in the future - thus "changing" the future. Also, Daniel would remember that Desmond came to see him in Oxford no? It seemed to me that Daniel was rummaging through his journal to find any evidence of this. But he couldn't - not till the very end of the episode. This would imply to me that only once Desmond successfully found his constant did the entry in Daniel's journal appear - again the future/present was changed.

That's how I see it anyway :lol:

[Little Nell]

It still makes sense. Little details can change, but not ultimate destinies. The quote from the psychic woman is that the "universe will correct itself" not "the universe will prevent you from changing any little detail." So, it's possible to go off course a little (like Charlie missing 6 chances to die), but your choices will never lead you so far astray that they interfere with fate.

In other words, the phone call to Penny (who already knew about the island and that Desmond might be there) probably didn't change the fate of either Desmond or Penny in the long run. Desmond was not supposed to die at that moment, period, and that's what the phone call prevented.

As for Daniel Faraday, having Desmond's name in his jouranal might not save him. DF was already a little off before coming to the island so the reaper might be hanging over his shoulder like a college roommate in need of beer money. Or there might be another Constant on the island that DF's not aware of yet. So, knowing Desmond in the past might not change his ultimate fate.

[Metuzalem]

Well when you put it like that...........

Yeah, I totally get what you are saying now. All of the charcters are on a journey with a pre-determined destination. Their route through life, however, is not pre-determined and can be "tailored" by certain actions.

Matthew Fox was interviewed in one of the Scottish papers yesterday (didn't get a chance to read it though) but what from what I garner he was basically saying he knows the conclusion to the final season and if he told anyone, they would "never find his body.".

[alaristhered]

Actually, they WOULD find his body...in Tunisia, completely decomposed except for his skeleton, and with a Dharma tag around his wrist.

[alaristhered]

My daughter has a CD of Beatles songs sung by children. Anyway, when Obladi Oblada was playing, I couldn't help but sing:

Desmond has a barrow in the marketplace
Penny's not the one who sent the boat

Many apologies!

[sickness]

So what do you think of all of this time-travel stuff?

I think it's interesting that they chose not to go the physical time-travel route, but a consciousness/metaphysical route.
It makes for compelling storytelling, which is all the reason in the world to ignore the physical impossibilities/improbabities/mistakes with the way they're handling time.

In other words, I love it.

[Penfold]

I finally saw this episode, and I'm pleased to get to add a bit to the conversation...

The device was set to 2.342. 23-42. Get it?

Oh well, I thought it might be worth mentioning.