Innocence Project

[kah]

So, I'm sure it's been all over the news elsewhere, but we have a local case of the system gone wrong. Or did it? Here's the story~~>Steven Avery (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=405302)

Here's my question. Ready? Was Avery always capable of this crime, or did 18 years imprisoned for a crime he did not commit turn him into this monster?

[sickness]

So, I'm sure it's been all over the news elsewhere, but we have a local case of the system gone wrong. Or did it? Here's the story~~>Steven Avery (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=405302)

Here's my question. Ready? Was Avery always capable of this crime, or did 18 years imprisoned for a crime he did not commit turn him into this monster?

If this were a crime of opportunity over in a matter of moments, I might be open to the idea that prison time had changed him but this was clearly a vicious, time-consuming crime leaving him opportunity after opportunity to turn back and yet he kept going forward. He didn't commit the crime in 1985, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to link him to other crimes before that. This dude is one sick, twisted fuck.

[awakenangel]

If this were a crime of opportunity over in a matter of moments, I might be open to the idea that prison time had changed him but this was clearly a vicious, time-consuming crime leaving him opportunity after opportunity to turn back and yet he kept going forward. He didn't commit the crime in 1985, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to link him to other crimes before that. This dude is one sick, twisted fuck.

the same could be said for creul and vicious way steve was treated as well.
you call him a sick, twisted ,fuck. I do not condone what he did in no way, shape or form. But when clearly this monster was created by a hateful and inept sheriff. who disliked avery and looked for no one else. and he put other women's life in danger because the real rapist was free for so long.

hopefully you will not be imprisoned for about two decades for a crime you did not commit and let's see how your mind and soul holds up.

[DarkJedi]

I think there can be arguements for both side, you two.

In answering Kah's question from so long ago, though..

Here's my question. Ready? Was Avery always capable of this crime, or did 18 years imprisoned for a crime he did not commit turn him into this monster?

I think it's safe to say 18 years of being wrongly imprisoned for a crime probably made him capable for this crime. I'm sure it did something to his conscious and inner soul while serving time. It doesn't get him off for this crime that he did or condone it any way but the question was what motivated his capabilities of something like this. I would think its the 18 years of imprisonment that helped..

[kah]

We're still waiting on resolution in this case. The sick part is it sounds like he spent quite a lot of time in prison planning this.

[awakenangel]

then how could they condone this lady who killed her own children and put her in a mental instittution the same should have been done for Avery IMO.

but the are making excuses for her, she lied blamed it on someone else trying to cover her tracks. Premeditated and obstructing justice, crazy people do not cover their tracks.

[southpaw]

crazy people do not cover their tracks.


Unless they are crazy like a fox....

[DarkJedi]

I bet he did spend alot of time planning it in prison. It gave his anger of the injustice of being locked up more focus.

He deserves what he gets too even if he didn't deserve the 18 years part.

[awakenangel]

Unless they are crazy like a fox....


:lol: you got me on that one southpaw. and to darkjedi; my sympathy for avery ended the moment he took that woman's life. But take heed america how many other averys are being created out there due to injustice, bad people with a power and just plan old society just not liking them.

[kah]

awaken- I'm sorry, but you need to try to be more clear. Who are you talking about?

[DarkJedi]

Yep, it does happen quite a bit. Every year, there's a story making national press about someone wrongly convicted and imprisoned decades ago.

The only positive is I'm sure this is much less a circumstance then it was back in our ancestors time when people were being hung from trees and gallows without trial.

The better our forensics get, hopefully the less this will happen in our future.

[awakenangel]

but the sad thing about all this is that the sheriff's dislike for avery he did not even consider what the other cop said to him about another suspect and it was the right one. forensics only help hen good people use it.

[DarkJedi]

That's true on corrupt or soulless law enforcement.

Awaken...you've admitted to your spelling being off but I have to ask, man. Do you have a SHIFT key next to your Z key on the keyboard? Do you have a ---> . <----- key next to your > key. If you make more of an effort to put capital letters at the beginning of your sentence structure and less run-on sentences, people will respond to your thoughts more often.

[awakenangel]

That's true on corrupt or soulless law enforcement.

Awaken...you've admitted to your spelling being off but I have to ask, man. Do you have a SHIFT key next to your Z key on the keyboard? Do you have a ---> . <----- key next to your > key. If you make more of an effort to put capital letters at the beginning of your sentence structure and less run-on sentences, people will respond to your thoughts more often.

My passion gets the best of me. I will clam down first and then type.
My mind moves faster than I can type. that is a good thing right.:lol:

[kah]

That was so much better. Keep up like that and we may actually have a conversation one day.

[awakenangel]

:dunno: Domo itachimosta.:lol: :hugs:

Don't make me passionate...you won't like me if I'm passionate.:angry

[DarkJedi]

Hyperactive moving humans is a infliction that happens to quite alot of Ciners....that or the Horny Hyperactive Super Pervs infliction.

Thanks for not being offended there too. It will get more responces from alot message posters if they can read your thoughts more clearly.

Back to the messageboard of whacky people. :)

[madi]

So um.... back to opinions on the Avery thing.

My take is that he probably always had it in him to at least conceptualize the crime. Hell, most of us have had, at one time or another, bizarre, sick and/or violent thoughts or fantasies. I have no doubt that his time in prison made him bitter, and I can believe that the time made what ever violence that was all ready inside him feel much more acceptable.

Still, this does not in any way condone his actions. As has been pointed out he had many chances to turn back. He knew what he was doing was wrong, if only from a societal point of view. He knew, better than almost anyone, what the consequences of his actions could mean for himself, if not for the victims. A horrible past does not, in my mind, does not justify current violence. You still have the choice.

As for the difference between Avery and the woman who drowned her children and was given time in a hospital.... that woman was found to be insane, clinically insane, at the time of the murders. She was, if I remember correctly, suffering from post partum psychosis, and had, through her husband, sought help and been denied. That, to me, is a different situation than justifying a murder by saying that she had been treated real bad.

[kah]

She is still suffering from psychosis. I think there is more to that story than just Andrea Yates' insanity. I think Rusty Yates (http://www.vanceholmes.com/court/trial_yates.html) had a hell of a lot to do with what happened.

[awakenangel]

So you are justifying her because she was not given help. What psychosis do you think Avery was suffering from when he was not even given that option?
Being told you are guilty and confess and we will let you go on parole.

Everything was taken from him by that evil act, this so called mother in cold blood murdered what was so called everything to her. and just because her husband said he treid to get her help not her herself. We should condone her actions.
And that is what they are doing justifying her actions.

[tstone]

What I hear of prisons, they still aren't about reforming people. They are about housing them. And being in there can change a person. Sometimes not for the better.



I think there can be arguements for both side, you two.

In answering Kah's question from so long ago, though..



I think it's safe to say 18 years of being wrongly imprisoned for a crime probably made him capable for this crime. I'm sure it did something to his conscious and inner soul while serving time. It doesn't get him off for this crime that he did or condone it any way but the question was what motivated his capabilities of something like this. I would think its the 18 years of imprisonment that helped..

[kah]

Ok, obviously awaken, you didn't even read what I posted, so I am not going to justify it with a response beyond this- Andrea Yates is in a mental facility for what she did because she is PSYCHOTIC. Rusty Yates put her in the position to kill her children, just like being falsly imprisoned put Avery in the position (mentally) to plan and commit the murder of Teresa Halbach. Sometimes it's one thing that leads to another.

[awakenangel]

there is a tv show called "Lock up " on MSNBC. I think and if you can find it. I recommend madi who feels prison stay does nothing to you.
Actually I was replying to Madi's post not yours Kah and when your pop up Rusty Yates becomes available for me to read it I will.

[kah]

That's not what she said.

It's not really a discussion if you don't actually read our POVs.

I'm done.

[awakenangel]

buh, bye. Kah.

Madi, There is a big difference between putting someone in a mental institution and if she is found "fit" to be released back into society. Than just locking someone away in prison. for the rest of their lives.

[madi]

So you are justifying her because she was not given help. What psychosis do you think Avery was suffering from when he was not even given that option?
Being told you are guilty and confess and we will let you go on parole.

Everything was taken from him by that evil act, this so called mother in cold blood murdered what was so called everything to her. and just because her husband said he treid to get her help not her herself. We should condone her actions.
And that is what they are doing justifying her actions.


I think you misread me, awaken, if you thought that I said that prison does not change a person. It embitters a person. It can actually create an environment where violence becomes the norm and not exception, thereby desensitizing a person to it's effects. It can, in fact almost assuredly does, cause post traumatic disorders. It does not, however, cause psychosis. That is a mental disorder caused by chemical imbalances in the brain, and characterized, often, by the inability to distinquish between the real and the imaginary.

I do not condone Yates actions, nor do I believe she should be released into the general public, but she was legitimately crazy when she committed that heinous act. Alverywas not.

You are aware, I'm sure that many, many people have been imprisoned in much worse circumstance, expecting to die. I'll give just one mass example... those who were placed in the extermination camps in Poland, Germany, and other Nazi countries. They were imprisoned for years, starved, worked to near death and tortured without cause. They believed that they would die. None of them were guilty of anything more than belonging to the wrong racial group. I'm sure not one of them came out of those camps any less bitter, any less traumatized, any less inured to violece than Alvery, yet the vast majority did not commit murder. It is simply not an excuse.

[awakenangel]

I definitely see your point Madi. But there are other factors involed as well in the yates case. Her "fire and brimstone preacher" had more influence over her than her husband and he may have convinced her not to seek proffessional help. Again taking advantage of her psychosis.

And that feminist group, who are not profesionals said she had P.P.P. to start but recanted P.P.P on their website because it stigmatized to many women.

What was thier agenda, this preacher? I'm just saying the whole process and her so called mistrail because of this witness stinks.

[Jakester]

Damn...I thought this was about a project to get a bunch of innocent, naive, and nubile young women together for me to corrupt.

[sickness]

No, that one already exists, Jake. It's known as Cinescape's messageboard. :D

[awakenangel]

Damn...I thought this was about a project to get a bunch of innocent, naive, and nubile young women together for me to corrupt.


There is a show on Shotime called "After innocence" this thrusday.
It's about how people who were innocent but served lenghty jail crime for criminality they did not commit. And the camera follows them as they try to cope in the real world with no help or opportunities.

I have more hope for baby eagles when their moms push them out of the nest on high cliffs.

[Jakester]

I'd rather this thread be about innocent and nubile young women for me to corrupt.