In the spirit of intelligent discussion and open debate....

[Kaeos]

Of course we all know the board has crawled to a virtual stand still what with all the technical difficulties and such.

But a great many of us regulars have made it back form the land of the lost and it's apparent that the political season is in high gear out there and before too long it'll probably be hopping with "democrat" and "republican" and "liberal" and "conservative" in here too. Some of it has already started, thank you Senor, that was funny. Sort of.

I'm posting this only to urge everyone to play nice this year. We've seen some downright mean, nasty and unnecessarily angry fights over the years that could and should have been intelligent, productive open discussions about political viewpoints and ideas.

It doesn't need to degenerate into personal attacks and name calling. It doesn't have to have pointless flaming and baseless accusations.

I'll point out the 800 lb gorilla in the room right now. It's obvious more of the folks on the board lean left than right. But as much as this may sound unnecessary to say - those on the right shouldn't be attacked personally for following the ideals of the current administration or the Republican Party. And vice versa. Those on the left aren't all ultra liberals and socialists.

Disagree, of course we disagree that's the point. But I challenge each of here inclined to talk politics to step up and have a civil discourse that does not offend and does not take offense.

Further, I invite you to step forward and state your position and your beliefs. be honest. I personally do not believe that everyone falls into Democrat or Republican or for that matter independent.

I grew up with an ultra liberal democrat single mother. A perfect example of a welfare mom who could never hold down a job for very long and blamed all of her problems on Reagan.

I grew up believing pretty much everything she told me. It's only been in the past 3 years or so I have begun to find more of an "independent" view of things. and no, I am not a member of the "Independent Party" If you look at my voter registration it says Democrat. But I honestly don't and can't identify myself as being a Democrat. I only register that way because in NY you can't vote in either of the party's primary's unless you are registered as such. So if I wanted in, I had to pick. The "Independent Party" offers nothing to me. Their candidates are unimaginative, their platform thin.

But back to the Democrats. While I do agree with more of their platform than I do with the Republicans, I can't and don't march in lock step with the likes of Pelosi, Dean, Kennedy and the like. Conversely, I find far less to agree with on the Republican platform, but there are some aspects of thier message that resonates with me. Both Parties are full of power hungry politicians. Not all of them, and there are plenty of honest, faithful public servants in both parties.

The closest I have been able to come to identifying myself is as a LiberaCervative. On Social issues I find myself with very liberal viewpoints. I am pro choice, I am an equal rights advocate and I believe in a responsible and far reaching welfare system.

But on many Fiscal issues I find myself in a conservative mind frame. I don't believe in taxing our way to every answer. I don't think the Federal Government should have numerous and multiple social programs that are bloated and wasteful and top heavy with bureaucracy.

So there. Have at it. And here is to a healthy and maybe....hopefully productive discussion of the election this season.

[mckracken]

what? :D

[KingVoyeur]

You damn Commie!
















There, got that outta my system. I wholeheartedly second your proposal of peace and (commie) love. I have a question, because I often hear people confuse these terms. Do you (and by you I mean all maniacs) see a difference between conservative and Republican and between liberal and Democrat? I just feel people bash one side or the other without differentiating. So........have at thee!

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Kaeos]

I have a question, because I often hear people confuse these terms. Do you (and by you I mean all maniacs) see a difference between conservative and Republican and between liberal and Democrat? I just feel people bash one side or the other without differentiating. So........have at thee!

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Well that's been one of the key frustrations I've had with political talk as of late. They refuse to see those very distinctions. I don't believe that every liberal is a Democrat and every conservative is a Republican. And further than that, no one seems to want to acknowledge that someone could have both liberal and conservative viewpoints at the same time.

But the news media and the talking dunderheads on TV and radio just don't get it. They want to conveniently paint everyone into a nice neat corner and label them. And too many people simply fall into lock step with the pundits and stop thinking for themselves.

[omicron]

I am pretty apolitical. I view the choice between Repubs and Demos like the choice between which nut I want to get kicked. No matter which way I chose, I'm getting kicked in the balls.

But I want to compliment Kaeos on the great use of the word 'dunderhead' :D

[Bill_the_Pony]

I'd have to side with Omi on this. (that's okay, don't be scared. :ohwell: )

This whole idiotic American thing with treating politics as if it's some team sport.

You know the scene in the restaurant in Hitchcock's The Birds, just before they go on a rampage? There's that little androgynous character that is so pompously sure about his beliefs/knowledge of the nature and behaviour of birds, and when everything he/she knows is thrown in his face during the attack, he's seen in a shot turned away from the camera, cowering from his belief structure shattered. Never once do you see his face, but you know his world has caved in on him.


Where are the staunch supporters of Bush, Cheney and others from this criminal regime? Do they still exist?


:popcorn:

[mckracken]

I view the choice between Repubs and Demos like the choice between which nut I want to get kicked. No matter which way I chose, I'm getting kicked in the balls.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/2555826643_afe5f98a25_o.jpg

Republicans and Democrats it seems everyone has their head up their ass.:headscratch:

[RedKarma]

Both Parties are full of power hungry politicians. Not all of them, and there are plenty of honest, faithful public servants in both parties.


:lol:

[UNCLEagent]

Where are the staunch supporters of Bush, Cheney and others from this criminal regime? Do they still exist?
:popcorn:

We're busy spending our stimulus checks.

[UNCLEagent]

BTW -Kaeos.

That was a very nice heartfelt and well articulated post. Now that you've established a foundation for healthy dialog, may the mayhem and flaming begin! :popcorn:

[Bill_the_Pony]

We're busy spending our stimulus checks.


On the next Republican Campaign Fund, I would hope :eek:




:rolleyes:

[UNCLEagent]

Nope.

Got a really cool Obama tshirt, tho!

[Bill_the_Pony]

:Mwahaha:

that's my second evil laugh in two posts. :headscratch:

Both in reply to a post of YOURS, UNCLEagent. :headscratch:






You just bring out that side in me, I guess. :mad:















Let's get married, and I'll show you the world.... :p















Burning! :Mwahaha:

[Metuzalem]

http://ui20.gamespot.com/595/robotnixon_2.gif

[Bill_the_Pony]

Bottom of poster: "May Death Come QUickly to His Enemies"

"And slowly for his own people." :mad:

[whitetemplar78]

Hmmmmm.....its kind of funny how in this day and age, we have to label everything in our lifes.....Red State, Blue State, Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservitive, Neocon, Geek, Nerd, African American, Asian American, labels, labels labels.......then we as a country, LOVE to take those labels, and use them against people, and i mean straight out FLOG them with em. Over the years that ive been coming to this site, thats one thing that always amazed me, is the War of Labels that would erupt here, and the horrible things that were said......and to be honest it scared me, I had no desire to state my beliefs, and thoughts, just to be hammered cause of them.
Im a HUGE believer in the freedom of debate, the freedom to state your ideas, and then see them stand against the views of other people, but for some reason, we the human animal are unable to do this, with out trying to hurt them as we tear down that said view....why?....why do we do this?......i don't care if my friends are democrats, or republicans, and its something that i never really ask as I form friendships, does anyone else on here do that?....no, i doubt we do, but on here ive seen friendships end, cause of those two words.....republican....and democrat.......under the banner of those two simple labels some of the worse statements have been said, tempers have been lost, and bans have been handed out.....hell its gotten to the point that im sure the moderators wince in pain when they see a new political thread pop up.

Then out of the blue Kaeos, you post one of the best written, and well thought out posts dealing with one of the most touchy subjects that we deal with in our world today.........Thank you

Open debate is one of the greatest pillers that our country is founded on today. And i believe that it is the lifesblood of a free and democratic socity. So in the spirit of open dabate, and intelligent discussion I'll openly state that I Shawn Dedic am a Moderate Republican at heart, though like a huge portion of our country, i have several liberal views, but here..... I am one of a few. To be honest I don't care, ive always looked on most of you as very intelligent people, with well rounded views of the world, and some damn good taste in movies...lol, and this view has never been colored by the fact that most of you do lean towards the left on your beliefs.....more power to you I say, in the end we all put our pants on the same way, we all have familys, jobs, and many of the same worries.......and because of that, we should all remember that in the great age of LABELS that in the end only one really matters to us as a whole.....that we all are Americans.....except for a few.......like those damned dirty Canunks.....(I can say this, cause its well understood that living right next to them every day in Michigan gives us many libertys.....LIKE KICKING THIER ASS IN HOCKEY!! GOOOO RED WINGS!!!!...ok sorry, had to get that out of my system).....

Sorry bout the long post but I must say Kaeos made me think.......thanks for your time.

[Kaeos]

Word Brother.

[Space Tycoon]

Where are the staunch supporters of Bush, Cheney and others from this criminal regime? Do they still exist?

They're all on Moist Board. :smirk:


And a soggy excuse for a forum it is....





.

[Daltons Chin Dimple]

Well that's just the hilarious thing about US politics. You guys throw the word Liberal around (for instance) but what you class as a liberal is soooooooooooooo far away from the accepted meaning of a political liberal just about everywhere else. Same with the idea of a "Conservative".

Same as "Left" and "Right" - both US parties are very, very "Right" when viewed in context of the rest of the world.

[neglet]

Here's what's really pissing me off about the American two-party system: for the most part, it's weighted toward one party or the other, depending on how a district is gerrymandered, so there's no real choice.

Here's the situation facing me right now: there's a primary on Aug. 5, and I'm looking at my absentee ballot. Now, I live in Wayne County, Michigan, which also holds the city of Detroit. As a result, county government officials are almost uniformly Democratic, so picking the winner of the Democratic primary is where my vote counts the most. (In some instances, there is no Republican candidate.) My Congressional district is also gerrymandered Republican, so it's hard to get a decent Democratic opponent, and I'd definitely like a say in that as well.

But I also live in a township that swings Republican. Almost all our township officials are Republican (I've voted for many of them in the past, I want fiscal conservatives running the place), so my vote counts the most when I pick the candidates in the Republican primary. (I think the only Democrat is running unopposed.)

Unfortunately, my official ballot says "Partisan Section: VOTE ONLY 1 SECTION." So I have to choose: in which races do I want to have a real say? Township or County? Because according to our system, I can only pick one. And that sucks.

[kah]

Yeah, that's bullshit.

[fastcar]

Until we fix the primary and general election (electoral vs. popular) processes in this country we're doomed to be herded into narrow spaces with no voice against the machine. Michigan and Florida got screwed in the Democratic primaries and even still, regardless of whether you are a Dem or a Rep, by the time the primaries get to PA or other states, the players on the field are pretty much already established.

That's why I hate the process in this country. There's no real shot for a third candidate outside Red and Blue. And if you're not careful, your vote for that independent candidate might end up with one of the two candidates you don't like.

I don't trust any candidates because they're politicians. Not one of them has any solid answers on how to fix things. They're too busy pandering to what will get them the votes. They pander to the blue collar workers in blue collar states, like PA, but when they go to white collar states the story changes. In this day and age with video and news at a click's distance, the strategy has to change or you'll be caught in a lie.... (i.e. Snipers in Bosnia)

Give me Dave Kovic, Andrew Shepherd, Jed Bartlett, anyday. I'm tired of ending up with Tug Benson

[whitetemplar78]

Yah, two choices....great seclection there!...."mmmm....bullshitter #1, or #2...." its funny how so many people think that we are a true democracy.......WE'RE NOT!! we are a Republic, sadly the "popular" vote doesn't get you shit anymore, which is a joke. Along side junking the electoral College we need to redo the whole election system period, limit how much ANYONE, OR ANY COMPANY can donate, make it a set standard, so the big corporations can't just buy the office themselves, and while we're at it, lobbyist's.....ohhhh man, let me tell you, I understand the idea when it was first thought of wayyy back in the day, a way to get things done for your group, thats great, I see that, but come on!!, its gotten out of hand, and NOTHING WILL BE DONE.....

But there are some bright spots that all of us can take into account, one the internet, its changing the whole system alittle bit at a time, and government is just now starting to catch on, to how informed the average joe is nowadays. Two, in my whole life, i have never seen such a large swell of interest, and debate about polictics in our country today, for too long the Government has wanted us all fat happy, and apathic about whats going on in Washington, but now the lights are being shined in alot of dark corners they would perfer we not look.....as a nation we need to use this swell of interest and outrage at stupid policys and make some LONG TERM changes to our system, i just pray we can..

[Kaeos]

The internet is a double edged sword though. While it's greatly increased the vulnerability of Candidates being caught saying and doing stupid things, it has also given unlimited power to the voices of partisan stupidity and hatred.

There are literally thousands of brainless nitwits spewing lies and passing it off as truth. Bugs me.