Holy crap he picked a woman! (Not that there's anything wrong with that!)

[Senormac]

No....your perspective is all wrong.......Imagine how bad it would be if I didn't pray !!! My prayers brought things UP to the level they were at........from somewhere even further down the peaceful, good situation ladder !!

[Gentlemen Death]

I personally do not belong to any religion and consider myself agnostic. Now, if someone finds comfort in God or whatever religion and it brings them comfort and understanding, why do people in general, have to hate that?

My brother belongs to a religion that I do not understand, nor want to but I am happy that it brings him comfort and that it has turned his life around in a very good way. I support him and what he believes 100%.

[Kaeos]

Right there with ya brother GD.

Oh, and uh, another reminder of what this woman stands for? (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/06/palins-church-promoting-conference-aimed-at-converting-gays/)

Yup. Freedom and equality for all. Unless your Gay. Then only God can save you. Come to our Church and we'l fix you through prayer. She has such a wide ranging appeal ya know? With this she locks up the hardcore Mormon vote in Utah who have pulled the same crap trying to brainwash young gays for years.

[rappites]

Now, if someone finds comfort in God or whatever religion and it brings them comfort and understanding, why do people in general, have to hate that?



I don't hate that.

I do not like how people of faith are hypocrites, look down their noses at someone who does not fit their views and they way they think things should be.

That is why I am so amazed how Republicans are so accepting of Palin's daughter being 17, pregnant and not married.

FLIP FLOPPERS. They find it so easy to change the rules and interpert things that fits them they way it seems best at the present time. No consistancy.

Like it has been said before if that had been a daughter, grand-daughter etc...of one of the Democrat nominees then it would have been totally different.

God forbid.

[Outsydr]

I personally do not belong to any religion and consider myself agnostic. Now, if someone finds comfort in God or whatever religion and it brings them comfort and understanding, why do people in general, have to hate that?
That's an interesting question that (when rephrased) could be asked of both people of faith and of people of logic. I wonder how people within the fold would respond to why they must force their beliefs on others. Why does the country have to be brought to a halt in order to allow them to worship and genuflect during taxpayer-sponsored time periods (or, as it is more commonly called, prayer in public schools)? Why do people seeking to hold office have to offer up some kind of religious kindling (as if the difference between being a Christian or a Muslim or an Atheist had anything to do with how one would govern)? The lack of tolerance goes both ways. So why not ask a more open-ended question when you’re trying to understand intolerance?

[Gentlemen Death]

That's an interesting question that (when rephrased) could be asked of both people of faith and of people of logic. I wonder how people within the fold would respond to why they must force their beliefs on others. Why does the country have to be brought to a halt in order to allow them to worship and genuflect during taxpayer-sponsored time periods (or, as it is more commonly called, prayer in public schools)? Why do people seeking to hold office have to offer up some kind of religious kindling (as if the difference between being a Christian or a Muslim or an Atheist had anything to do with how one would govern)? The lack of tolerance goes both ways. So why not ask a more open-ended question when you’re trying to understand intolerance?

OK!

[omicron]

I'd much rather have an agnostic/atheist in charge than an religious person.

[whitetemplar78]

So what is up with this new fad in this country, where the majority has to keep giving up its rights for the few?...... This country was founded by RELIGIOUS refugees, not by agnostics, not by athesties (sp?). When the founding fathers built the idea for this government, and future, they PURPOSELY built it around a strong religious, and moral backdrop. Thats why you see God on the currency, on our Pledge, and the National Seal. This isn't what those crazy church nuts thought up either, this is the founding fathers of this country people! They did not do it, so everyone could toe the line, praise Jesus, and be good little Christens, they did it cause they wanted to breed strong morals into the future people, and government of this land. But noooooo, not now baby, now you say God in your Pledge you just shit on all Muslims, Buddest, and blah blah blah. All of us in this land need to grow up, including myself, and thickin our colective skins! If you don't want to pray in school...then uhh heres a idea DON'T!, if you don't want to say God in our Pledge....then move, its not a binding oath to whorship, its a Pledge to the fucking land of your birth, if this country had been founded by Muslims, and not Christens then Id just as proudly say in Allah we Trust, but it wasn't.
IM so sick of people screaming about how this offends them, and takes away thier rights, and then seem to forget that all they are doing, is taking someone elses rights away from them. If you ban prayer in school, aren't you taking from the right of the childern that want to pray????? instead of just making a across the board ban, why don't they allot the time, and if you want to pray, pray, if not, study, read, hell beat off in the bathroom, WHO CARES. But stop banning everything cause a few don't like it! Man is it that hard, to just let EVERYONE do what they want?!?! When you cry that someone if forcing their views on you and for them to stop, your just forcing your views and wants on them back...... so Outsydr on this we agree it does go both ways

[tstone]

So what is up with this new fad in this country, where the majority has to keep giving up its rights for the few?


I don't know if you got the memo, but the minority has the very same rights as well, including the right not to be shoehorned into the cultural choices of the majority.



...... This country was founded by RELIGIOUS refugees, not by agnostics, not by athesties (sp?). When the founding fathers built the idea for this government, and future, they PURPOSELY built it around a strong religious, and moral backdrop. Thats why you see God on the currency, on our Pledge, and the National Seal.


It was founded by people with a wide range of religious viewpoints, and the document they came up with to express the intended pluralistic nature of our nation's religious fabric was formed out of the deep knowledge and awareness of what said same lack thereof, or too much coziness of government and religion, the damage that can and likely will be done.

Middle East, anyone?

Oh, and Templar, what date was "under God" put in the Pledge of Allegiance? Here's a hint, not 1776.


They did not do it, so everyone could toe the line, praise Jesus, and be good little Christens, they did it cause they wanted to breed strong morals into the future people, and government of this land.


We supposedly have strong moral types in charge now, very sympathetic to your viewpoint.

Well..?


If you don't want to pray in school...then uhh heres a idea DON'T!


Anyone can pray in any school nowadays. It's just that no "official" prayer takes place.

Would you be so hot on this public set aside prayer time if it was to, say, Crom? Cthulu? The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Only to your diety of choice, right?



, if you don't want to say God in our Pledge....then move, its not a binding oath to whorship, its a Pledge to the fucking land of your birth, if this country had been founded by Muslims, and not Christens then Id just as proudly say in Allah we Trust, but it wasn't.


How about let's avoid turning our country into yet another theocratic basket case, yes?


IM so sick of people screaming about how this offends them, and takes away thier rights, and then seem to forget that all they are doing, is taking someone elses rights away from them. If you ban prayer in school, aren't you taking from the right of the childern that want to pray?????


Personally, I'm sick of militant Christians who are so adamant about being pandered to.

[whitetemplar78]

So yah, just watched a Obama ad for Change, and two mins later, there was McCains talking about....wait for it...CHANGE...yah, wow. so that got me thinking, what do I as a citizen what to change...so heres my list, have at it everyone, let me know what you think

Gay Marriage- Its not the Governments job to tell us what to do in a HOLY union, all they are suppose to do, is give us the paperwork to fill out, and put the seal on it, PERIOD, other then that Uncle Sam, stay the fook out of it. The state of Marriage, and whats allowed is between people and their faiths, and churches, not their government, so let them wrestle it out for the next couple of hundred years! (that being how fast Mother Church moves on issues)

Abortion- Again, not the Governments problem, its a persons familys, and faiths problem, so again repeat after me Stay the fook out of it Uncle Sam

Tax System- Holy Mother of God, is this system fooked, and I mean FOOKED we are taxed on EVERYTHING!!!!! WHY!?!?!?! heres just a few

Accounts Receivable Tax

Building Permit Tax

CDL License Tax

Cigarette Tax

Corporate Income Tax

Dog License Tax

Federal Income Tax < BR>Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)

Fishing License Tax

Food License Tax

Fuel Permit Tax

Gasoline Tax

Hunting License Tax

Inheritance Tax

Inventory Tax

IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)

IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)

Liquor Tax

Luxury Tax

Marriage License Tax

Medicare Tax

Property Tax

Real Estate Tax

Service charge taxes

Social Security Tax

Road Usage Tax (Truckers)

Sales Taxes

Recreational Vehicle Tax

School Tax

State Income Tax

State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)

Telephone Federal Excise Tax

Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax

Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Tax

Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax

Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax

Telephone State and Local Tax

Telephone Usage Charge Tax

Utility Tax

Vehicle License Registration Tax

Vehicle Sales Tax

Watercraft Registration Tax

Well Permit Tax

Workers Compensation Tax

STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?

Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago...
and our nation was the most prosperous in the world.

We had absolutely no national debt...
We had the largest middle class in the world...
and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What happened?

Can you spell 'politicians! '

So yah, those are my top 3 right there, more to come, SHARE THOUGHTS!! (all that tax info my friends sent me, thanks Katy!!)

[Bill_the_Pony]

It's rather unfortunate that some Christians seem to be hellbent on exerting political influence.

Sounds pretty domineering and oppressive if you ask this homosexual. ...err, abomination.... :eek:


Oh, and who is anyone to tell anyone to "love it or leave it"? That's middle-finger territory there. :smirk:

I have no qualms about using my constitutional rights to keep sick and simpleminded individuals from trying to deny or eliminate my existence.

Religion is and always has been the opiate of the masses. Keep them sedated and under control. Such as Bush's urging of church leaders in the south to take orders from authority after the Katrina debacle.

Be fruitful and multiply, even though the resources of this planet and infrastructure of this society will cave in under the weight. But hey, just trust in God that everything will be alright, and assume no responsibility for your own actions, huh? :mad:

[tstone]

Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago...
and our nation was the most prosperous in the world.

We had absolutely no national debt...
We had the largest middle class in the world...


I'm kinda doubting every bit of this was true in 1908. The "middle class" didn't even really firm up as a concept until post WW2, I believe.

[whitetemplar78]

I don't know if you got the memo, but the minority has the very same rights as well, including the right not to be shoehorned into the cultural choices of the majority.

When, where, and how is this happening???? in this country we bend over backwards to make sure the opposite happens. Hell you can sue someone now adays for looking at you wrong. Because some nutjobs get bent out of shape and get put on the news screaming about how we need to build altars in class so we can all give virgins to our dark gods, doesn't mean its happening in something I like to call the real world. And for all of those, I can give you a news cast with some bandana wearing super liberal screaming about how his right to shit on the flag is being infringed cause someone went "yuck" in the background.




It was founded by people with a wide range of religious viewpoints, and the document they came up with to express the intended pluralistic nature of our nation's religious fabric was formed out of the deep knowledge and awareness of what said same lack thereof, or too much coziness of government and religion, the damage that can and likely will be done.

Try a wide range of "Christan" viewpoints, Franklin in that group was really the only one that wasn't big on the whole "God" thing, but the rest were a mixed bag of Christans though, other then that, you are right, they did go out of their way to make sure religious freedoms were protected....CAUSE THEY WERE CHRISTAN REFUGEES THAT FLED SAID PERSECUTION! They did not want their past, to replay here in this country. But I wasn't talking about that, im talking about how they wanted to build a strong MORAL backbone to our countrys government, at the time that was equated with Religon, that in no way meant that I was saying they were building some kind of Christan state....



Oh, and Templar, what date was "under God" put in the Pledge of Allegiance? Here's a hint, not 1776.

Well that depends, Bellamy had written the orginal Pledge in 1892, but he wrote several different ones, with different words thrown in, ie. Equality was one word, he looked at, and he did think about God briefly because of his Baptist background, but discarded it due to his more Socialist leanings, and his cousins Edwards books, which were both Socialist in nature. "under God" was added in the 50's, what year im not sure, i think '53 but I could be wrong. But overall this was my bad, I had meant to express the background, and views of the country as it grew, not give the impression that the founded fathers made up the pledge, again sorry for that mess up (sorry I got detailed im a history major, and nut for that matter lol)



We supposedly have strong moral types in charge now, very sympathetic to your viewpoint.

Well..?

Come on tstone, Bush digs are soooo 2007, now its McCains turn!!!..woohooo




Anyone can pray in any school nowadays. It's just that no "official" prayer takes place.

Would you be so hot on this public set aside prayer time if it was to, say, Crom? Cthulu? The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Only to your diety of choice, right?

ok, this made me laugh and spray a little chocolate milk out my nose, so thanks for the burning feelings. But for real, why is it a big deal if they make it a official, but didn't require you to be part of it???...what have you lost?




How about let's avoid turning our country into yet another theocratic basket case, yes?



Personally, I'm sick of militant Christians who are so adamant about being pandered to.

pretty sure school prayer isn't the next step to Emperor Pope ruling the land, and i agree about militant Christian, those unbathed bastards lol, but on that note, im also sick of militant anti-christans that flip out cause some poor backwoods christan wants time to pray, and wanted it labeled prayer time. Why don't both just agree to disagree, and have it, but call it study time, or bathroom wacking time

[whitetemplar78]

I'm kinda doubting every bit of this was true in 1908. The "middle class" didn't even really firm up as a concept until post WW2, I believe.

ahhhh, not true, see in the 1890's is the era when "unions" were taking off, and wage increases, new standards of living, and workers rights were taking hold. Around the 1908 era, and well into the '20's was some of the most prosperous times for our country. A well strutured wage system was in place, a new banking system was coming into effect, new roads where bringing our country together, reallllyyy together that is for the first time. And the working class person for the first time was having a surplus of money onhand, so at the time this is thought of as really the founding era of the middle class portion of our country, the label "middle class" wasn't brought into effect till after the war, on that your very right. But this time period was overshadowed by the Great Depression.

[neglet]

you are right, they did go out of their way to make sure religious freedoms were protected....CAUSE THEY WERE CHRISTAN REFUGEES THAT FLED SAID PERSECUTION! They did not want their past, to replay here in this country. But I wasn't talking about that, im talking about how they wanted to build a strong MORAL backbone to our countrys government, at the time that was equated with Religon, that in no way meant that I was saying they were building some kind of Christan state....

This is the thing that really cheezes me off when people start talking about how America is a "Christian country." Presumably the MORAL backbone you are talking about includes being fair, treating others as you would want to be treated, no murdering/cheating/lying/stealing, among other things. Why do you assume these are solely Christian values? Are you saying Muslims and Jews and Hindus don't believe in the Golden rule and fair play? Are you saying
nonbelievers (like myself) are liars, cheaters, thieves, and murderers? I wasn't raised in a church, and I believe I was raised with very strong moral principles. I believe cheating and stealing is wrong, and I didn't need Jesus to tell me so. (Don't get me wrong, I think Jesus was a cool dude. I just don't think he's my savior.)

Tstone: Anyone can pray in any school nowadays. It's just that no "official" prayer takes place. Would you be so hot on this public set aside prayer time if it was to, say, Crom? Cthulu? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? Only to your diety of choice, right?

WT: ok, this made me laugh and spray a little chocolate milk out my nose, so thanks for the burning feelings. But for real, why is it a big deal if they make it a official, but didn't require you to be part of it???...what have you lost?

I have lost the feeling that I belong. I have lost the feeling that in the eyes of my government, I am equal to any other citizen. If I am a non-Christian child in school and prayers are conducted by officials, I am forced to make a choice: either declare myself as different from the majority (and maybe be ridiculed my peers--don't think kids will "turn the other cheek"), or go along with the prayer, and feel like a hypocrite. Quite a choice to force on a six-year-old kid who should only be thinking about learning to read and basic addition.

If official prayers are kept out of schools, what have you lost? Can't you speak to your God silently, or in private? Can't you have public prayers in Church, any time you choose to attend?

[Jakester]

Preach it Negs! Um...er...wait....

[Intelligent_Design]

I have no ploblem with God. God kicks ass. Blackholes are the coolest idea ever. Its God earthly creations I tend to have problems with.

[whitetemplar78]

This is the thing that really cheezes me off when people start talking about how America is a "Christian country." Presumably the MORAL backbone you are talking about includes being fair, treating others as you would want to be treated, no murdering/cheating/lying/stealing, among other things. Why do you assume these are solely Christian values? Are you saying Muslims and Jews and Hindus don't believe in the Golden rule and fair play? Are you saying
nonbelievers (like myself) are liars, cheaters, thieves, and murderers? I wasn't raised in a church, and I believe I was raised with very strong moral principles. I believe cheating and stealing is wrong, and I didn't need Jesus to tell me so. (Don't get me wrong, I think Jesus was a cool dude. I just don't think he's my savior.)

wow, and you know what cheezes me off?? people taking what I say, and twisting it around. WHERE, WHEREEEE?!?!? in my post did you get any of this??? Im talking about the founding fathers, and what they wanted, or were thinking about at the time. In no part was i, in anyway saying how christans rock, all hindu's suck...or jews, or Taoists, or WHOEVER!! now last I checked none of the fathers of this country were Hindus, or Jews, thats why none of them were brought up, thats why none of them where used as a example, because what I WAS doing was pointing out what those men, and the beliefs that THEY held where doing when they formed this country. Do I think that you have to be Christan to good and wholesome??........HAHAHAHAHAH HELL NO!

So let me lay it out here, so no one else jumps on the anti-Christan whitetemplar train.
I was raised Catholic, but I haven't set foot in a church in 12 years, I believe that organized religon is one of the greatest evils that mankind has come up with, since twinkies, I think its stupid as hell that more people have died in the name of God then anyother single thing in human history, I think its horrible that mankind as taken the single greatest thing that we could have, and turned it into a excuse for genocide, intolorance, bigotry,and repression. Those things have taken all the millions of good people that are out there, Christan, Jewish, and so on, that are good, and do good things, and drowned them out under the weight of the horror that religon can bring to bear, when used by twisted people. So there it is people im not a bible thumper, and im not a christan, so relax, and stop thinking im "spreading the faith" as it were.

[Outsydr]

I have no ploblem with God. God kicks ass. Blackholes are the coolest idea ever. Its God earthly creations I tend to have problems with.

You smoke a lotta weed, huh?

[Intelligent_Design]

You smoke a lotta weed, huh?


Weed? Psh!! That stuff is for losers. Its opium all the way baby.

[Jakester]

Godda have some absinthe with that opium, D.

[tstone]

ahhhh, not true, see in the 1890's is the era when "unions" were taking off, and wage increases, new standards of living, and workers rights were taking hold. Around the 1908 era, and well into the '20's was some of the most prosperous times for our country. A well strutured wage system was in place, a new banking system was coming into effect, new roads where bringing our country together, reallllyyy together that is for the first time. And the working class person for the first time was having a surplus of money onhand, so at the time this is thought of as really the founding era of the middle class portion of our country, the label "middle class" wasn't brought into effect till after the war, on that your very right. But this time period was overshadowed by the Great Depression.


Ah yes, and you know what had come before? The Gilded Age, followed by a wave of progressive reforms that ensured that those actually doing the work would share in the prosperity. But all that was entirely new, as this country was emerging from it's agrarian roots.l

Go look up the term "middle class". See when it actually was given form.

It won't be 1908.

[tstone]

When, where, and how is this happening???? in this country we bend over backwards to make sure the opposite happens.


And let's keep it that way, rather than letting the militant "majority" have it's way.

BTW, I don't regard praying privately to yourself, no officially led prayer to Jeebus as "bending over backwards". I consider that neutral ground, where it should be.


Try a wide range of "Christan" viewpoints, Franklin in that group was really the only one that wasn't big on the whole "God" thing, but the rest were a mixed bag of Christans though, other then that, you are right, they did go out of their way to make sure religious freedoms were protected....CAUSE THEY WERE CHRISTAN REFUGEES THAT FLED SAID PERSECUTION!


No, that was just one group of the refugees. Almost none of the Founding Fathers were Puritans. They got to set up their own colony and were regarded by the others as oddballs, but as long as they minded their own...

Other colonies were VERY religiously pluralistic.

This pluralistic, find your own way religious philosophy was what the Founders were after. You'll find no mention of Christ in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and very little in the thought of the documents supporting the Founding, except among a minority of the Founders.





They did not want their past, to replay here in this country. But I wasn't talking about that, im talking about how they wanted to build a strong MORAL backbone to our countrys government, at the time that was equated with Religon, that in no way meant that I was saying they were building some kind of Christan state....


Your implication that only Christians are capable of this doesn't lend credence to this disclaimer.





Well that depends, Bellamy had written the orginal Pledge in 1892, but he wrote several different ones, with different words thrown in, ie. Equality was one word, he looked at, and he did think about God briefly because of his Baptist background, but discarded it due to his more Socialist leanings, and his cousins Edwards books, which were both Socialist in nature.


God bless Socialists. Bottom line, it wasn't there.


"under God" was added in the 50's, what year im not sure, i think '53 but I could be wrong. But overall this was my bad, I had meant to express the background, and views of the country as it grew, not give the impression that the founded fathers made up the pledge, again sorry for that mess up (sorry I got detailed im a history major, and nut for that matter lol)


That's right. The 1950s. During the Red Scare, looking squinty eyed at the godless Communists. That wasn't growth. That was paranoia.



Come on tstone, Bush digs are soooo 2007, now its McCains turn!!!..woohooo


And he's still playing President. We've got eight years of supposedly "Christian" government.

Yep...



ok, this made me laugh and spray a little chocolate milk out my nose, so thanks for the burning feelings. But for real, why is it a big deal if they make it a official, but didn't require you to be part of it???...what have you lost?


Lost the ability to keep my views separate from the rest. Lost the ability to learn in an environment accepting of all creeds. Watching the principle of a theologically pluralistic society being eroded.

That's a BIG loss, in my book.




pretty sure school prayer isn't the next step to Emperor Pope ruling the land, and i agree about militant Christian, those unbathed bastards lol, but on that note, im also sick of militant anti-christans that flip out cause some poor backwoods christan wants time to pray, and wanted it labeled prayer time. Why don't both just agree to disagree, and have it, but call it study time, or bathroom wacking time


No. We'll just disagree and I'll add that this is all just a non-issue over posturing. That the country's ills won't be addressed by kids getting the official word to have a specific block of time set aside for public displays of piety.

[rappites]

Here I go again.

But, I can't help it.

Another reason I strongly feel that a woman is not ready for the White House.

Clinton supporters are telling the media to back off of Palin.

Excuse me....but, has the media backed off of Obama, McCain, Biden and even Bush.

If they cannot not stand for people being critical and nit picking at Palin right now. Can you imagine how offended they will be if she is as bad as our current president/vice-president.

this is my "give me a break" moment.

When she agreed to this she agreed to be treated as an equal. No cyring sexism, crying post-partum depression, crying I have a family crisis, etc...

She will need to put her country first and be prepared for it.

Show us that she is the role model she claims to be. Be the person that has to go to work rather than take a sick day and not get paid for it because your children are sick.

Show me that you are one of us.

So, the Clinton supporters need to suck it up and take it like a "man" if they want a woman in the office.

[tstone]

Amen, the White House is no place for weak sisters.

[kah]

Damn straight!

Naomi Campbell for VP. That bitch is scary.

[Outsydr]

Damn straight!

Naomi Campbell for VP. That bitch is scary.
So are you!!:lol:

[Al-Dog]

I think Matt Damon nails it.

v=anxkrm9uEJk

[Bill_the_Pony]

That's not all he can nail. :ohwell:

[Strider]

Hey Bill, your comment reminded me of the existence of these videos:
V1uCjq96Jes
kVv4A0r3wxU

[kah]

So are you!!:lol:

Aw! That's so sweet of you.

:D
:Mwahaha: