***SPOILERS*** X3 Predictions based on X2 Novel?

[imported_Thom]

A question I pose for those who have read the X2 novel:

What do you think is in store for the third film? What makes you think that?

Personally, my hopes have been supported from reading the novel. Considering how both Stryker and Magneto have used the Dark Cerebro, I don't see any way that mutant nor human will forget about it all... I'd say the war is on.

So what's that mean? I contend a likely scenario would be this:

* Act I: The Sentinels - Despite Professor's plea to the pres at the end of X2, the government will push through a new Sentinel program and will start trying to eradicate the mutant population.

* Act II: Enter Magneto - The master of magnetism finds a way to manipulate the Sentinels, perhaps "reprogram" them as he's done in some comic arcs, and turn them against the humans.

* Act II: Fatal Attractions - Like the famed comic storyline of the same name, we'll see the X-Men take on Magneto one last time. Magnetos will rip out Logan's adamantium, Professor will wipe out Mags, they'll have the near-catastrophe in the X-Jet, and we'll discover Logan's bone claws.

This would be a great way to shoot off into a solo Wolverine film.

Also, you could combine the re-entry phase with the Blackbird crash story that introduced the Phoenix. It wouldn't be exactly the same, obviously, but it would be fitting to see the Phoenix really come to form on the X-Jet. So they could go with a Dark Phoenix storyline for the fourth film, should they decide to do one. But that's looking pretty far ahead at this point.

[mallratX2]

I'm almost positive the third film will have a lot to do with the Phoenix, hopefully Dark Phoenix, I think that would be very interesting. I just hope characters like Colossus will play larger roles, also I would like to see Havok introduced, but that would have to bring about a whole other story. I think they could bring in Beast(show him coming to the school and helping out, since we saw him in the second film)

[imported_Thom]

It is obvious that they'll be incorporating the Phoenix into the story, but do you think Singer will go on such a tangent for the third film?

OR... How could he tie it in to the same theme he's had going?

[StormMaster]

Though the sentinels would be cool, it's too far of a tangent to go on after this one. With Stryker already having done the 'trying to obliterate the mutant race', sentinels might be a bit too redundant.

I'd presume the next will primarily deal with the Phoenix and considering I don't think Halle is signed on for the third, I can see some characters getting knocked to maybe just cameos, and maybe characters like Beast, Gambit, and others making team debuts. Just a thought, I'd gladly give up storm (even though she's my favorite) for an Emma or a Psylocke (more desirably Psy)


Just my 2 cents

[imported_Thom]

What is Singer going to see in a Phoenix storyline? For each of the first two films, his biggest interest has seemed to be in the metaphors of intolerance and discrimination the X universe has to offer... I just don't see him doing a third film without any such deeper meaning.

Maybe there's a good metaphor there with the Phoenix, but I just can't see it. Can anybody enlighten me?

[Lamarquise]

Thom –

The point isn’t so much the metaphors for discrimination; there will be plenty of those. Our heroes still have to take care of Magneto and make some progress towards their goal. The human/mutant situation at the end of X-2 is very tenuous.

The point of bringing in the Pheonix storyline (in a very limited way, if the filmmakers have taste) is having fun with the characters. Obviously, there would have to be a primary storyline involving the fight for justice on both sides of the human/mutant line. I’m just fascinated at the idea of watching the team cope when Jean loses control and goes ballistic in the middle of trying to calm things down after their last incident.

[imported_Thom]

Lamarquise,

I think you and I are seeing pretty much eye to eye. I think it's GLARINGLY obvious based on the novel that they will bring in Phoenix considerably to X3. But I don't think the third film will "primarily deal with the Phoenix" as StormMaster said and mallrat hinted towards. That's the point I was trying to make.

Having fun with the characters? Hell yeah. I'll love seeing Phoenix on the screen. Watching Marvel film franchises seem to be like getting those "best-of" collections of the comics.

Just think... in three films we may get SIX superb storylines from the comics:
* Enter Magneto - Obligatory intro arc to X-Men and Brotherhood, pretty much the kickoff for every X-title in existence.
* God Loves Man Kills - Might have lost the religious allusions, but still a meaty story.
* Weapon X - Wolvie flashbacks to the project that created him? Sweet!
* Night of the Sentinels/Tomorrow People - We get the big bots, maybe Mags turning them against their makers.
* Fatal Attractions - Magneto rips the adamantium? Charlie wipes Mags' mind out? Whoa.
* Phoenix Saga - Or at least a good step into it.


[This message has been edited by Thom (edited 04-10-2003).]

[beppo_the_super_chim]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thom:
Maybe there's a good metaphor there with the Phoenix, but I just can't see it. Can anybody enlighten me?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

power corrupts,absolute power corrupts absolutely

or maybe eveyone has the potential for evil, even heroes

[norrinraad]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by beppo_the_super_chimp:
<B> power corrupts,absolute power corrupts absolutely

or maybe eveyone has the potential for evil, even heroes</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Works for me. Like Thom said, Singer is obviously looking to explore some weighty themes with this franchise and we've pretty much covered the tolerance aspect (which has always been central to the X-Men). Perhaps a deconstruction of what makes one a hero is something he might wish to address.

[zombie_new_wave]

I think the whole Phoenex saga would be too complicated for the general audience, especially those too young to remember it. Clones? Dark Ph. Normal PH. Plus, I really don't have faith in Singer's ability to pull it off. The Ph. Saga was a story of never giving up on love, even when your lover harnesses the power of the universe, tries to kill you in her sleep, and flies to the sun. Singer just can't tug at the heart strings with enough suspention of disbelief. That's more Baz Luhrman or Luc Besson.

I agree with bringing Psylocke in. I so want to see her fighting Sabertooth. Assasin vs. assasin. Ming against brawn...a barbell upside the head (Mutant Massacre).

As far as X-men 3...I don't think the sentinals would be redundent. I always liked them. They were the outright feeling of impending doom. I don't think, however, that an entire movie should be centered around them. I think they should fight the sentinals in the begining while Cain is stumbling on a certain Jewel in the rain forest. Now that's a good deeper meaning. A brother who hates his mutant half-sybling. Mmmm Juggernaut.
This film, I would have rather seen Pierce than Stryker...Reavers rather than soldiers.

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Me fail spelling? That's unpossible.

[MarvelKid18]

I gotta agree with Zombie. While the Sentinels pretty much mimic the same purpose as Strykers Dark Cerebro thingy, they have a very different characteristic. They use a much colder method, and the Magneto possibility of turning them on humans really throws a whole new dynamic into it.

As for the Pheonix saga... wouldn't it be hard to throw the Pheonix Saga and Fatal Attractions together without one overshadowing the other? I mean, it's not even that we wouldn't be getting enough of one of the storylines, but I'm pretty sure that non-fans would be TOTALLY confused by it. Not that we should cater to their needs... but come on... gotta think about the non-fans.

[This message has been edited by MarvelKid18 (edited 04-30-2003).]

[imported_Thom]

I think there's plenty of room for the Phoenix--and hey, there'd better be--but I don't think they'll really make a "saga" out of it in the third one. If I remember correctly, Jean was the Phoenix for a considerable amount of time before the whole Dark Phoenix stuff and everything came into play, right?

[Lamarquise]

zombie_new_wave – I wouldn’t expect Singer to present the Phoenix saga anything like in the comics. Only the barest similarities, really. The love triangle. Jean trying to do something she can’t and getting in touch with a source of power she can’t control. Jean going ballistic and becoming someone significantly different from the character the team is used to dealing with. The team confronting her. Heartbreak. A return to some form of normalcy followed by a worse explosion. A final confrontation where the team is brought to a standstill and is going to be obliterated by Jean, until (in a moment of humanity) she either destroys herself to stop herself from doing more damage or finds a way to get control permanently at some sacrifice to herself. Singer can work all of that in without going extraterrestrial. It’s not a particularly complicated plotline, and could be used as a major subplot that rears it’s head at a very bad time.

[GRIM]

i dont want an X3. X2 was too good, there no way they can follow that up!

[Brownie]

Absolutely loved this movie- and thought it flowed pretty logically from where the first one left off. They're obviously leaving us hanging for a third movie, adn from the sounds of it, it's gonna be less cosmic than the comics and less mythological than the ultimate version of Phoenix, but focus more on the next level of evolution. Which could possibly be a tie-in to the current Morrison run on New X-Men.

So, my thoughts on what will happen: def Sentinels development to increased Brotherhood attacks, Magneto doing the Ultimate thing and turning them on DC, Phoenix arising to save the day. No clear way to resolve that though. Happy-ending all over? Or prelude to the next film. Maybe a set-up for the "mutants as popular" phase that's in the main comic universe and seems to be the new focus for Ultimate as well.

[WEAPON_A1977]

I didn't read the novel but saw the X2 movie and I would like to make a few observations.

1. Henry McCoy (Beast) was seen on a news debate show in that bar where that guard fell into the Brotherhood's plan for Magneto's escape. He is a major character casually thrown in. I believe this character was thrown in to be punched up in the future.

2. Remy Le Beau (Gambit), I believe, was on the list of names Col. Stryker had on his computer next to Magneto's. He is a major character also casually thrown in. I believe this character also was thrown in to be punched up in the future.

3. Obviously, we know that Colossus and Jubilee were somewhat in the story but not main characters. I believe these characters were also thrown in to be punched up in the future.

4. Pyro joins the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. I believe this hints at a future plot or story.

5. Mystique is still Senator Kelly. Is this going to be used in a future plot or story.

All of these elements left over in the X2 movie, I believe, hint at another movie. Plus, Bryan Singer said on the X Men 1.5 DVD that each (keyword: each) movie was not meant to be one complete but rather an episode.

[imported_Thom]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brownie:
So, my thoughts on what will happen: def Sentinels development to increased Brotherhood attacks, Magneto doing the Ultimate thing and turning them on DC, Phoenix arising to save the day. No clear way to resolve that though. Happy-ending all over? Or prelude to the next film.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm glad someone else sees it closely to what I think it may be. Take the Sentinels, Ultimate Magneto, and Phoenix plot points as you said and throw in Fatal Attractions at the end. That'd rock.

[MarvelKid18]

Well, beside storyline, what other mutants do you think might be introduced or might have a much larger role. It seems like Colossus is almost a shoe in for the next movie(though I could be very wrong). Do you guys really think that Magneto, Mystique, and Pyro can bring the country to their knees on their own?

[zombie_new_wave]

I want to see mutant team against mutant team slugfest. Not a weak one like in the first X-Men. I wantto see the Marauders. I want to see Juggernaut smash through the city. I want to see a Wolvie Sabertooth fight that puts The Wolvie LDS fight to shame. AND I want to see Wolvie have to CLAM HIMSELF DOWN after her goes berzerker. All I heard ***SPOILER*** is how Wolverine finally goes berzerker in this movie, and he does, but it was like he had bipolar disease. He's berzerker...he's calm. No panting. No lunging from all fours, No crouching. It just seemed like he was too calm after he went berzerker.

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Me fail spelling? That's unpossible.

[Greg Tolken]

I'd like to see Juggernaut pound his way through the city and maybe come to the mansion and that's where Colossus gets his showtime and has to go toe to toe with Juggy, while the others try to pop off his helmet and the whole routine again.

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"You Homo sapiens and your guns."
"I'm am Batman!"
"Truth, Justice, and other good stuff."

[zombie_new_wave]

Colosus is still young. He could never go toe toe to with Juggy until he recovered from his injuries umph-teen years ago. Still. I hear you. I like the idea of the bigboys battling. Kind of like when Thing nd Hulk went at it i the middle of the city, knocking each otherthrough buildings...yeah. Good Times

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Me fail spelling? That's unpossible.

[Black_Alchemy]

It's obvious from this film that X3 is going to be the Phoenix Saga. How that is going to play is a mystery that only a select few know about.
I could see Phoenix being very destructive. The destruction of a city is pretty damn good reason for the government to red-light a Sentinal program (thus foreshadowing X4, and it seems obvious Singer knows what foreshadowing is all about).

[jack of trades]

The Phoenix Saga is the perfect storyline for Singer. Xavier and the X-Men are still trying their hardest to show the rest of the world that mutants are not necessarily a threat, when suddenly one of their own starts trying to devour the planet. The X-Men are fighting two fights. Not only are they trying to save the world (while trying to save a friend), but they're trying to fight the growing fear and hatred of mutants. And of course you end with the X-Men having to make the choice of saving their friend or the world, leading to ultimate sacriface (or self-sacrifice) when the Phoenix is destroyed (of course we know Jean is safe in a cocoon under water). I mean, the Phoenix Saga has it all.

Then again, Jean already sacrificed herself in X2. Might seem a little repetitive to end X3 the same way.

[TheHeretic]

Thats why I get the feeling that X3 will end in a huge disaster, caused by Phoenix. Then the next movie would take place immediately following that and be about the team taking down Phoenix.

[Golden Falcon]

From the museum scene I knew this would somehow go into the Pheonix phase of Jean Grey. Although the general public may not be familiar with the Dark Pheonix Saga - it will be the only likely choice for the next film because all those only aquainted with the X-Men from a movie prospective are left wondering what just happened (refering to the non resolution of her destiny). Also, there is the unresolved issue of her not being able to concentrate/focus her power.

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheHeretic:
Thats why I get the feeling that X3 will end in a huge disaster, caused by Phoenix. Then the next movie would take place immediately following that and be about the team taking down Phoenix.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Call me a doubter but I think X3 will be the last in this franchise for a while. All the actors have talked about how grueling it is to film these movies and I don't see most of them coming back for a fourth.

[mallratX2]

it's gonne be dark phoenix, theres not gonna be just phoenix, read this http://www.superherohype.com/cgi-bin/news/fullnews.cgi?newsid1052499239,79194,

ps C2F still kicks that crap out of superherohype

GO C2F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mallratX2:
<B>it's gonne be dark phoenix, theres not gonna be just phoenix, read this http://www.superherohype.com/cgi-bin/news/fullnews.cgi?newsid1052499239,79194,
ps C2F still kicks that crap out of superherohype

GO C2F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just posted a message in the 'X3 Latest' Topic about this very thing. Talk about wasting my time.

[TheHeretic]

I seem to be the only one here who thinks that the X-Men brand is stronger than its individual parts but really, if some actors are done with the series then move on. Theres plenty of characters to go around. Wolverine is the only one whos seemingly cant be replaced, but who knows what a great marketing plan for Gambit or whoever would do?

[Warlock1176]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
I think you and I are seeing pretty much eye to eye. I think it's GLARINGLY obvious based on the novel that they will bring in Phoenix considerably to X3. But I don't think the third film will "primarily deal with the Phoenix" as StormMaster said and mallrat hinted towards. That's the point I was trying to make.

Having fun with the characters? Hell yeah. I'll love seeing Phoenix on the screen. Watching Marvel film franchises seem to be like getting those "best-of" collections of the comics.

Just think... in three films we may get SIX</B> superb storylines from the comics:
* Enter Magneto - Obligatory intro arc to X-Men and Brotherhood, pretty much the kickoff for every X-title in existence.
* God Loves Man Kills - Might have lost the religious allusions, but still a meaty story.
* Weapon X - Wolvie flashbacks to the project that created him? Sweet!
* Night of the Sentinels/Tomorrow People - We get the big bots, maybe Mags turning them against their makers.
* Fatal Attractions - Magneto rips the adamantium? Charlie wipes Mags' mind out? Whoa.
* Phoenix Saga - Or at least a good step into it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Thom -

Here's another thought. I was thinking about this one because of the ring controversy. WHat if the ring is a Hellfire Club ring? That would indicate Stryker as being a member, Shaw was debating Beast on the TV, we've already got a Jason Wyngarde-type character and all that led right to the Dark Phoenix.

Battling the Hellfire Club would be a good plotline in the human/mutant war as they have always tried to manipulate things to their own ends.

Another one is that Franklin Richards' name appears on Stryker's PC. Aside from the Fantastic Four link, wasn't Franklin an essential part of the "Days Of Future Past" storyline? Incorporate that into it, which would lead to a realistic introduction of the Sentinels...which would lead to....Project: Wideawake...which was also on Stryker's pc.

Those storylines could be combined into a very intriguing plot!

[imported_Thom]

Honestly I think you're assuming too much that there's anything to the ring. Maybe not, who knows.

Anyhow... I'm not too familiar with the Hellfire Club. I just have a feeling it won't be Singer's angle. They've been talking about a war brewing for two films now. To go any other angle than all-out war in the third film, I think, will be anticlimatic.

I say, make the third one an opportunity for Hugh to have one final good run (as he's said he wants to pass the torch) and bring some other characters front and center for any future films. (I'd go with Scott & Jean for that.) After that, and after they have a solid trilogy-format set of movies in the bag, continue the series and take some risks working with different themes.

[Warlock1176]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thom:
<B>Honestly I think you're assuming too much that there's anything to the ring. Maybe not, who knows.

Anyhow... I'm not too familiar with the Hellfire Club. I just have a feeling it won't be Singer's angle. They've been talking about a war brewing for two films now. To go any other angle than all-out war in the third film, I think, will be anticlimatic.

I say, make the third one an opportunity for Hugh to have one final good run (as he's said he wants to pass the torch) and bring some other characters front and center for any future films. (I'd go with Scott & Jean for that.) After that, and after they have a solid trilogy-format set of movies in the bag, continue the series and take some risks working with different themes.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Very good point Thom, and that's why I was thinking about the Hellfire Club. They have always controlled things from behind the scenes. At one point right before Jean becomes the Dark Phoenix, the X-Men have to rescue her from the Hellfire Club while she is under the illusions of Jason Wyngarde. Then, later on, Senator Kelly's wife is killed during a battle at the Hellfire Club, for which the X-Men are blamed. It would be a simple matter to bring them in as the group that has been manipulating the entire plotline since teh beginning, eh?

* Have them controlling the strings of Stryker and his projects.
* Being a supporter of Senator Kelly
* Providing the technology of Magneto's prison, the neural inhibitor, etc.
* Maybe even establish a link to Project: Wideawake as a closing scene?

It has possibility, but Singer has already stated he may not be directing the next one. He may be reducing his role, even though he wants to be involved.

[Pyro-Wolverine]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
i dont want an X3. X2 was too good, there no way they can follow that up! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why dont u want an X-3 everyone else wants one. We are all anxiously waiting for X-3 to see Pheonix and Dark Pheonix. The next movie is gonna be better. Why would u want the X-men movies to end after 2 everyone else probably wants like 12 X-Men movies. Whos with me dont u guys want more movies with added pheonix-D.Pheonix?


[This message has been edited by Pyro-Wolverine (edited 05-12-2003).]

[Greg Tolken]

Definitely. 12 movies would be to die for but it's just so doubtful unless they get it going like James Bond has been but one can only dream...

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"You Homo sapiens and your guns."
"I'm am Batman!"
"Truth, Justice, and other good stuff."

[methor]

Maybe I am just dumb but how can you have Dark Phoenix before Phoenix?

Also how can you have the Sentinels without the Senator???

I just like to keep things as accurate as possible with the comics.

methor

[Essex]

Maybe I am just dumb but how can you have Dark Phoenix before Phoenix?

I don't see how this could be a problem...Jean comes back, she's bad, fights ensue, there ya go. Simplified, but there ya go.

Also how can you have the Sentinels without the Senator???

Again, I don't see how this would be a problem, as Kelly had very little, if anything to do with the creation of the Sentinels in the first place. That honour goes to Bolivar Trask, and later his son.




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"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[D.K.HOOD]

An even easier answer to the first question is that we already saw Phoenix by the end of X2. They just haven't called her by that name yet.

[JohnJones]

I doubt very much they will do the Phoeneix saga exactly as it was done in the books, Singer wants to keep these movies along the theme of humans vs mutants, and the X-Men try to restore balance in relations between the two. The story will involve the return of Jean and certainly Magneto and Professor X are going to have another confrontation.

Will Beast and Gambit appear in the thrid film, as X2 sort of hinted at, maybe. But they sure can not add many more characters other-wise it will be too difficult to keep up with everyone. The Sentinels. Yes, I think we will see them.

[imported_Thom]

Holy... Whoa. Dude, JohnJones, you and I are seeing totally eye to eye on this one.

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thom:
Holy... Whoa. Dude, JohnJones, you and I are seeing totally eye to eye on this one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't even realize that was John Jones' post until now. Welcome back John.

[JohnJones]

They should not adapt anymore Claremont stories for these movies....they don't work.

[StormMaster]

I think Phoenix would be very viable for a sequel...I mean people it's going to happen, that little flame bird in the water at the end of the movie wasn't the sun playing with your eyes...

As aforementioned themes for such a movie:

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Never giving up on love no matter what the cost.

And I mean the Phoenix anyway is life and death, how is that not deep?

They obviously won't introduce the complicated facets of the story (madelyne pryor, etc) I'd LOVE to see something like the Hellfire Club though, Singer could def pull that off and i'd love to see it done.