A Fanfilm?!

[Count Enance]

Somebody brought my attention to this link.
http://www.ualberta.ca/~kkonowal/batman/sandman/

Looks rather impressive.

[Sonic1002]

I would have to agree. From those 5 pictures they provide, I wanna see this. The Batsuit goes back to its origins, with the spandex and all. But I like them leaving the mask from the movies. And the Joker, oh boy, he looks freaky. But freaky is always good when it comes to Joker. He looks like the Joker I imagined. He looks awesome. But, anyway, I love the pics and wanna see what comes of this.

-Sonic1002
------------
"Now, comes the part where I relieve you, the little people, of your failed and useless lives; but, as my plastic surgeon always said, 'If you got to go, go with a smile."
-The Joker

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Count Enance:
<B>Somebody brought my attention to this link.
http://www.ualberta.ca/~kkonowal/batman/sandman/

Looks rather impressive.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Impressive and interesting. University of Alberta eh?

[Frostbite]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sonic1002:
The Batsuit goes back to its origins, with the spandex and all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, that's some good-looking spandex.

[ali786]

now THATS Batman..the other hollywood guy with the rubber nipples is an imposter...

[Sonic1002]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ali786:
now THATS Batman..the other hollywood guy with the rubber nipples is an imposter...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

much agreed. It looked very authentic. I thought the keaton batsuit looked descent, but this is truly batman.

[Sonic1002]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ali786:
now THATS Batman..the other hollywood guy with the rubber nipples is an imposter...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

much agreed. It looked very authentic. I thought the keaton batsuit looked descent, but this is truly batman.

[mallratX2]

thats awesome, any way we can see more,
I love the costume

Buuuuuuuuuuut I dont know if it quite beats THIS costume!!!http://www.ualberta.ca/~kkonowal/batman/ice_suits.jpg
------------------
"Are you seriously telling me you don't recognize this traitor? It's..."
"Cyclops, baby. Don't wear it out."

[This message has been edited by mallratX2 (edited 04-16-2003).]

[Frostbite]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mallratX2:
Buuuuuuuuuuut I dont know if it quite beats THIS costume!!!http://www.ualberta.ca/~kkonowal/batman/ice_suits.jpg<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You've got to be kidding. Even I have better standards than that.

[ModeMan]

Yes, very good. If Hollywood stuck to that criteria we'd have a decent Batman constume. A mobile one. One thing I would like for a big budget Batman, if they finally gave him the lenses over his eyes. Kind of like Spiderman. Some of the best pictures of Batman include him shrouded in darkness where you can't see anything defining other than his silhouette and his eyes. He's gotta have those white lenses. I think it would be cool anyway. They pulled it off with Spiderman.
The Joker in this film needs a haircut. Other than that he's decent.

[D.K.HOOD]

Here's the catch with Spider-Man. It's all about cockiness and attitude. The only way you could tell how he was feeling was through Tobey's voice acting and his body language, which is fine for a character as animated as Spidey. Batman is a totaly different kind of character. He's reserved, hardly emotional and doesn't talk a lot. You need to see his eyes in a live action because that's where most of his expression is going to come from. Now if they find a way to make eyelids that move with the actors face, like when he raises or lowers his eyebrows in the comics or the cartoon, then maybe I could see that happening. Otherwise he would look stiff like Spawn did in his movie.

[ModeMan]

I think they could find ways to manipulate his mask using cgi that would work well. They did it a little in Spawn in a scene where his mask came over him and when it finished he seemed to squint a little bit as if he was pissed. It was one of the coolest effects I saw in Spawn. If they did that with Batman throughout the film it could be pretty cool. Computer animated facial expressions in all their subtlety isn't unheard of. But it is a very delicate thing. If done wrong it would just make Batman look rediculous.

[ModeMan]

Sorry, found another problem I've got with the Batman costume in the pictures posted.
The guy playing Batman should stick a sock in his tights. It doesn't look like there's too much 'man' in him at all.
http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif

[Sonic1002]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ModeMan:
<B>Sorry, found another problem I've got with the Batman costume in the pictures posted.
The guy playing Batman should stick a sock in his tights. It doesn't look like there's too much 'man' in him at all.
http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now is that very nice?

[Sonic1002]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frostbite:
<B> [QUOTE]Originally posted by mallratX2:
[b]Buuuuuuuuuuut I dont know if it quite beats THIS costume!!!http://www.ualberta.ca/~kkonowal/batman/ice_suits.jpg

You've got to be kidding. Even I have better standards than that.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. I didn't like that suit at all. At least the Keaton suits got the darkness of the bat down. That suit just makes himthe average superhero, only with pointy ears.

-Sonic1002

[This message has been edited by Sonic1002 (edited 04-17-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Sonic1002 (edited 04-17-2003).]

[mallratX2]

ok seriously, you guys i was kidding, its george clooney in the worst batman film of all time. those costumes are ridiculous, they remind me of all those god damn batman toys like underwater nightvision secret adventure batman and all that crap, the costume in this new fan film is incredible and is by far the best costume

[ModeMan]

Indeed, the costume in this fan film is better than the costume from even the first film in most respects.
It looks like this Batman can actually move around, and at an excelerated rate.

[Stygian]

I agree with the movment issue. Batman is an acrobatic great fighter, he would never wear the crud they used in any of the movies... However all that said you have to realise we are dealing with Hollywood and their first mission is to the dollar. They change the suites not because they think it would look better this way or that, but rather so that they can merchandise the toys. Its the same reason Arnold was in that stupid armor as Mr. Freeze.

------------------
"Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt."
--William Shakespeare

[mallratX2]

hey the link doesnt work anymore, WHATS THE BIG IDEA?!

[Sonic1002]

well, that just sux.

[D.K.HOOD]

Don't tell me you didn't download the pics when you had the chance.

[mallratX2]

haha, yea right, what kind of moron wouldn't download the picture while they were up, haha what a stupid idiot that mallrat is, god dammit

[This message has been edited by mallratX2 (edited 04-22-2003).]

[D.K.HOOD]

It seems like whatever this project was someone is keeping it under wraps. Either the guys who were working on it don't want people to know about it(and that doesn't make any sense) or Warner Bros shut them down.

I would upload the pics to my Yahoo folder but I'm afraid that WB would have me killed. And I don't want no pianos falling on my head!

[mallratX2]

wb probably got scared that this movie was going to make the last two batman movies look like crap, well thats not all that hard in thr first place.

------------------
"Are you seriously telling me you don't recognize this traitor? It's..."
"Cyclops, baby. Don't wear it out."

[Sonic1002]

Hey, (yeah, I know: Only Sonic would resurrect a dead board)

Did you all hear? They are going to be showing this Bat Film at Cominc Con. They are already saying this is the best Batfilm EVER!!!!
I wanna see, I wanna see, I wanna see!!!!!

Sry, got a little to enthusiastic,

Sonic1002

------------------
Now comes the part where I relieve you, the little people, of the burden of your failed and useless lives. But remember, as my plastic surgeon always said: if you gotta go, go with a smile.
-Joker

[D.K.HOOD]

I hope they end up showing it over the internet like 'Goblin's Last Stand'(which I still contend is just as enjoyable as Spider-Man).

[The Amazing Crappo]

The pics are over yonder
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66979


------------------
My common sense is tingling....

[This message has been edited by The Amazing Crappo (edited 07-19-2003).]

[D.K.HOOD]

I forgot that I still have the behind the scenes pictures on my computer that were online before.

[localhero]

the link does work still.. just delete the final / from the url and you will get to the pics. looks like they deleted the index.htm page is all

------------------
Cheers, Local
"Is it true what they say about guys with big feet? Yes they do need big shoes."

"So let me fill my children's hearts, With heroes tales and hope it starts, A fire in them so deeds are done, With no vain sighs for moments gone."

See what sort of mood i'm in.. (http://www.localhero.org.uk/journal/)

[JordanGLC]

nice to see Cesar Romero out of retirement...

[JordanGLC]

AICN has some different pics...
http://aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=15693

[The Xenos]

I was tlaking with a friend of mine and he showed the AICN article to me. Then i remembered this thread and it looked like the same Batman. I see it was.

And now that first pic of the joker at AICN. WOW. just WOW. that's frekaing amazing.

Yeah. I need to get a copy of this. Hopefully i can find it online. I doubt the zombie lawyers of WB would let the film makers sell it. Hell if they were smart they'd hire him, or at least buy the hsort form him. Heck, if i find this online, I'll send the guy money.

Damn this loks cool.

-Xenos

[The Xenos]

Oh and to repeat something all the putzes said at SHH...

When are they putting this on Kazaa?

heh. Actually. I would love to see a bit torrent for this. It's much better than Kazaa for distribution. Plus you should NOT use kazaa anyway which is loaded with spyware and ad where. at lest use kazaa lite. i also like direct connect, or rather DC++.

also. I wonder if that ool siler surfer fan/college film is avbailible for download. I remember finding it streaming bakc in highschool.

his kyboard sucks,
-Xenos

[D.K.HOOD]

Well Batman looks a little short, but he's got the build and the costume is nearly perfect. As for the Joker, those eyebrows too distracting for me. I do like that they cast an actor that looks like the Joker and gave him yellow teeth.

[Frostbite]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D.K.HOOD:
As for the Joker, those eyebrows too distracting for me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, those eyebrows are far too large and horrible.

[Essex]

Hmm...apparently the director went for the whole "sha-bang" to show off what he could do on screen. Look for Predator and Alien to make appearances in the short film.

------------------
"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[themanwithoutfear]

predator and alien? is that the big surprise?

that joker looks so fuckin cool! the eyebrows arent distracting at all. it just looks so fuckin cool.

as for the silver surfer fan film....believe me your not missing much.it takes place in a military base and this guy lookin at radar screens . tells the head military guy " sir theres somethin comin in ...FAST!" ( or sumthin like that) then it cuts to some kid runnin down a suburb street holding an action figuer.
thats it. you dont see the silver surfer or nothin. it's kind of a let down.

[The Xenos]

Um... actually.... I remember seeing the Silver Surfer. The video you saw must have cut off. In fact one of teh main reasons they made it was to show that they could render the Silver Surfer themsevles. I remember it being somewhat similar to the T1000 in T2. For a student film, it was darn good effects. This new Batman one looks good, but it seems to be more of a pro job evne though it's a fan film.

[themanwithoutfear]

damn it was cut off?!? i want to see the whole thing do you have a link or anything where i can find the full version?

who really cares if it looks" too pro for a fan film"? this is the BEST looking bat film weve seen in more then 8 YEARS!!!!
these guys have done what the w.b. CANT/WONT do. give the fans a film we WANT to see.

[D.K.HOOD]

I've seen Batman Dead End. Oy! I think this is yet another example of a very talented fanboy trying to do too much in a "student film".


Spoilers!!
The good stuff pays homage to Batman:TAS, the first bat-flick and various Batman graphic novels. The Joker sounds a lot like Mark Hamill's version(which I love) but it affects the delivery of his lines and sometimes I swear that's Eddie Furlong from T2. There is also one perfect moment in this film that looks like Batman:TAS if it was done in Alex Ross' style. It even had Shirley Walker's instantly recognizable musical score playing in that scene. Batman and The Joker's confrontation is very good, not great, but very good. Then the Alien shows up and this is where the film goes horribly wrong. Then about 20 seconds after Alien shows up Predator comes into the film. He saves Batman's butt, but Batman still attacks him(?)! I'm guessing that these two are supposed to have a history together, but I don't read crossovers. Even though this part of the film sort of ruined it for me I have to admit the fight scene is done very well. At the conclusion you have an ending that would only have dorks drooling for more.

Although I had problems with this film I still recognize that the people who made it put a helluva lot of work into it, but I would ask the director not to do anymore crossover franchise films that are 8 minutes long.

[The Xenos]

meh... read the spoilers...

actually. now that I hear those guys show up.... it kinda sounds cooler. Might not be just the wonderful Bat film i thought it was, but still sounds cool. Plus I always loved the third Batman vs Predator mini series. Always thought it would make a cool movie, guess this is the closest I'll ever get. Heh. Cool.

-Xenos

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Xenos:
<B>meh... read the spoilers...

Plus I always loved the third Batman vs Predator mini series. Always thought it would make a cool movie, guess this is the closest I'll ever get. Heh. Cool.

-Xenos</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeez, they had 3 of them? Well then you should get a kick out of this. The more I watch it, the more I appreciate the fight scene between Batman and Predator.

[D.K.HOOD]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that read somewhere that this wasn't a student film afterall. It was made by industry pros who are fanboys as well.

[Antpoc]

The links to the pics are dead - can anyone point me in the direction of a live link. Also, can this fanfilm be bought on ebay or anywhere. Ta, guys! Ant

[ModeMan]

Guess what, everyone. The film has most definately leaked. Maybe purposefuly. You should be able to find it on a file sharing program.

&lt;&lt;REVIEW CONTAINS SPOILERS&gt;&gt;

Anyway, I just watched it. Fans have been raving that it's the best Batfilm ever. I'm not inclined to agree, personally. It's good but has it's drawbacks. Really just one big drawback- it's a crossover. It is, however, as many fans have stated, the best visual reprentation of Batman in live action. Which makes the film much more a pleasure to watch.
This didn't have to be a flaw, but it began focusing more on the Predator to the point that this fanfilm could have been called Predator 3 instead of Batman. The film starts out as a Batman outing, complete with Shirley Walker music. Batman and Joker are having a classic confrontation, when out of nowhere... well, read D.K.HOOD's earlier post.
What bothers me about an Alien snatching up Joker is that it's completely unecessary and confusing. The film turns into a Batman vs. Predator in 10 seconds anyway. So why doesn't Predator take out Joker and spare the inbetween time? They try to make sense of it at the end, but with an 8 minute film it's hard to redeem such an odd confrontation.
Next is where the film does well, and poorly. The fight that comes is a fight we should have seen in the Batman films. It's better choreographed, the movement is more fluid, and it's more intense. The problem is, the film is pretty much a Predator film by now. The Shirley Walker soundtrack is even completely replaced with the Predator one.
The last shot of the film kicks major ass, though. And with all thats going on, we still know who's coming out on top, right?
This film has things that the major pictures were severely lacking. The obvious are the Batman costume(which is very close to perfect in the film), and that they cast a muscular, lantern-jawed, intimidating man(Clark Bartram) as Batman. The image looked something straight out of an Alex Ross painting. Bartram played the role very well, seeming to take cues from Kevin Conroy's Batman. He was what shined about this movie for me.
All in all the film was entertaining. I recommend it to any Batman fan. It has it's drawbacks, for sure, but compared to the other Batfilms, they're minor. Think of the film as Batman/Predator or Batman/Predator/ Alien or maybe even Batman/Joker/Alien Predator rather than Dead End.


[This message has been edited by ModeMan (edited 07-22-2003).]

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ModeMan:
<B> The fight that comes is a fight we should have seen in the Batman films. It's better choreographed, the movement is more fluid, and it's more intense.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, they did very good job of making a fight scene that doesn't include matrix/x-men wirework. Like I said in another Forum, if they had decided to go with Killer Croc instead of Predator and Alien this would have made more sense.

[The Xenos]

Well, after instlaling new quicktime, i saw it.

spoilers i guess if you don't know

Well, I'm happy. Sure it could hve kept going on as a Batman film, but it was jsut all show off material, for both the film makers and costume designers. So not only do fans get a damn good Batman on film outta their ad, but they also get some Aliens vs Predator and Batman vs Predator.

-Xenos

[The Guard]

It took me three freaking hours to download it. I need a new computer. Was it worth it? Of course, it's a live action Batman film. Anyway, since it's Batman, I'll give it a full review.

Overall, color me semi-impressed. I said I wouldn't judge it until I saw it. I've seen it ten times now, and I think that's enough to judge it. Sandy Collora has a great eye, and the film was beautiful to look at. The atmosphere was good, the shots he chose, the smaller things, like symbolism (Joker getting thrown into the fence, then Batman having the same happen to him, is this intentional? I saw sort of a "Who's the bully now", thing going on here.)

ACTING

Clark Bertram made a hell of an attempt to bring Batman to life. I can tell he's a solid actor. He's just not quite right for the part. Yes, he has the look, at least inside the cowl. Yes, he has the physique, save being a few inches shorter than I'd like to see. But he did not have the voice. At times, Batman kind of sounded like a teenager.

I wasn't impressed at all with Andrew Koenig. His Joker didn't seem to have much motivation behind his lines. He just delivered them in a random manner. There's something called "motivational desire", which is what we need to see that makes an actor say a certain line, and I didn't see it from him. He just spoke his lines and tried to be insane. The Joker's laughing sounded like he was being tickled. A far, far cry from the chilling laughter we got from both Nicholson and of course, Mark Hamill. The laughter was just too short and pointed for me to enjoy. A nice long peal would have been nice.

CHARACTERIZATION

Batman was in character for most of this film. But he was too quick to kill. And he was clearly going to kill that first predator. Batman, if he's wearing gray, does not kill. Especially humanoids. And I know he was fighting a Predator, but Batman seemed like a wuss at points. He grunted an awful lot, both when he was getting his ass handed to him, and when he did simple things like kicking and punching. I half expected him to scream like Blankman when he got sent to the pavement that last time. And then took a long, long time to get up. He didn't get hit that hard, and he's Batman. Would he really have to sit there on his knees like that? He hadn't been fighting that long, and it's somewhat inconcievable that he could be exhausted.

The Joker is not Bane. He knows damn well that he's responsible for his actions, and he loves it. He kills because he enjoys it. Because it's all a joke to him. He has never blamed Batman or society for his situation. Perhaps his appearance, but not his actions.

STORY

What story? This was just mindless action.

ACTION

The action was decent, but it could have been better. I know people are gushing, but to my eye, it's not much better than the Burton and Schumacher entries. Certainly not as fluid. I noticed several of the same moves. There were also quite a few BIRDS OF PREY moments, "posing" stuff like when Batman and The Predator are locked together and stare at each other.

DIALOGUE

The dialogue was bad. It was just bad. The main problem I had with the dialogue was not that it was bad, but that it made no damn sense in the context of the situation. This thing tried to be THE KILLING JOKE, but forgot that Batman and The Joker wouldn't just start talking about who and what they are in that situation.

"We both wear masks."

Not sure what this line means. Because they don't both wear masks. The Joker's mask is not a mask, and the only other possibility is that Batman is addressing that The Joker hides his true self behind a veil of insanity. But The Joker became The Joker a long time ago.

GENERAL OBSERVATIONS

For all the Burton bashing going on, I noticed a lot of those films being incorporated into this movie, like Batman's movements.

Police Commissioner James Gordon. Not "Chief James Gordon".

And sure, it looked cool, but Batman suited up far too slowly. That's one thing I liked about the Burton films. Yes, Bruce waits for things to happen and the signal to go up, but you see the urgency. In this case, there's serious stuff going down. The Joker is loose, and Batman needs to get out there and search He doesn't have time to do this slow motion cape attachment, the slow glove flex, the slow cowl adjustment and such. Even in the Burton/Schumacher films, he does all this quickly and efficiently. I'm not sure this suiting up sequence works in the context of the film, either. Shouldn't this version of Batman be on patrol to begin with, and not waiting around for the signal?

That whole "puddle and a rat" thing is straight out of DAREDEVIL.

Interesting take on the Bat-Signal. I liked it for some odd reason.

I swear on that closeup where he narrows his eyes, he looks like Kurt Russell. That was a great shot, and the white lenses worked well there, and at the end.

The Joker surprises Batman? Surprises Batman in an area with puddles all over the place and Batman alert? Riiight. And then Batman, instead of grabbing The Joker's wrist and breaking it or something in character, groans and then stands there and wipes blood off his mouth?

And of course we have the obligatory "Batman grabbing the villain and holding him up" moment. Done with wires, looks like. Except that Batman doesn't hold him up. He pulls The Joker to his feet and sets him there.

People hated Schumacher for it, but even here there were lots of extraneous noises, a la POWER RANGERS. When someone looks up abrubtly, as Batman did, theres usually not a whooshing sound. That sort of thing is not in the comic book or the show, so I'm not sure where it came from.

This film's Batman was a brawler, not the restrained, efficient fighter he's always been in the comics, films and animated series.

DIRECTING

Fantastic, but little substance, and a lot of spectacle. You cannot always rely on things like reflections or bright lights showing behind a character to make a silhouette, or general ambience for an entire film. There has to be a sense that something is going on, a sense of urgency, a sense of a threat. Instead of a Batman on edge, I saw Batman walking into an alley waiting for something to happen. A good director deals in these things, and in things like foreshadowing, symbolism, things of that sort. I saw some of it, but I'd like to see more. Can anyone else see Sandy Collora doing RISING STARS or THE AUTHORITY? I think his style would go great with either.

EDITING

There were some problems here, mostly in action scenes. Batman took forever to get that batarang out and throw it, and The Utility Belt seemed to disappear right before he throws the batarang at the Predator. Come to think of it, it seemed to disappear whenever Batman went for a weapon. Curiouser and curiouser.

SETS

Couldn't see much of them. But the alley looked like an alley, so I guess it works.

MUSIC

The music at the beginning, where he was suiting up, worked rather well. And the recognizable BATMAN and MASK OF THE PHANTASM themes were used well, too.

MAKEUP

The Joker's makeup looked great. Much better than the BIRDS OF PREY Joker makeup, and even, dare I say, more realistic than Jack Nicholson's. Not too keen on the red and black under his eyes, or the enormous eyebrows, but the actual makeup looked great.

THE BATSUIT

I'll admit, the costume looks decent on film. It's the comic book costume come to life. And it does looks good. But it's still out of place to see a man in gray pajamas in the real world.

OVERALL

Entertaining. But is this the best Batman we've seen onscreen? Good lord no. This film got things about Batman wrong that the Burton and even Schumacher entries nailed. The main aspect of Batman that needs to be there for the "best" qualification is not a pair of gray pajamas, people, it's about respecting the character and his mythos. This "film" doesn't even qualify in that regard, as it's clearly not all that interested in telling a good story or bringing out much of the characters. Instead, it's mindless action, and it's a showcase for some people and their talents. Mission accomplished, I guess, Mr. Collora. Your film was beautiful. It just wasn't very good.

------------------
BATMAN TRIUMPHANT (http://www.angelfire.com/comics/superpowers/BatmanTriumphant.html)

SUPERPOWERS (http://www.angelfire.com/comics/superpowers/Superpowers.html)

[D.K.HOOD]

Heh, and I thought I was critical.

[Sonic1002]

Dang, did you watch this a few times to check ever nook and cranny of the movie?

------------------
Now comes the part where I relieve you, the little people, of the burden of your failed and useless lives. But remember, as my plastic surgeon always said: if you gotta go, go with a smile.
-Joker

[themanwithoutfear]

jezus! way to OVER critical....hate to see what you think of the actual bat films.

anyways...i actually got to finlaay watch it last night(downloaded from filmforce)
man that was really cool. i woulda liked to have seen more of a batman film then a crossover it was still f---kin cool.
and who knew that boner from growing pains woulda made a fantastic joker?

[JaLoHo]

Got around to watching this film today after downloading it last night and it was very solid considering it's length and budget. It was too murky in some spots and even thought the Bat's costume was suitably retro to have him walking around in leather and nylon only doesn't work in the real world. I also didn't like that it seemed as if our hero was a little out of his element fighting the first Predator. Other than that though I liked the battle scenes and the atmosphere which was dank and moody. An atmosphere where anything is bound to happen including ET's popping out of the woodwork.

The last shot of Batman with both hands loaded ready to throw down was a great money shot.

The style of the movie reminded of the little back-up features comics used to have back in the day. Don't think any were so open-ended but that's their fault because I loved that scene.

Hope the suits at WB take notice of this flick and leave the Dark Knight alone in a dark Gotham City instead of trying to palm off another day-glo cityscape on us.

[The Guard]

This is what we were told:

The short film written & directed by filmmaker Sandy Collora titled BATMAN: DEAD END, is probably the best screen depiction of the Dark Knight ever put on the screen.

Lots and lots and lots of this kind of thing. From people who are fans of the Batman characters and their world. Huge fans. Now, nothing can live up to that. Nothing (Except X2). So I tempered my enthusiam, and I tried not to get my hopes up. Still, I was expecting something really cool. I got it. BATMAN: DEAD END was absolutely beautiful. It had some great moments. It had a good atmosphere. But then I come online, and every fanboy in the world has appeared and is spouting what someone else told him, that this is the best version of Batman we've ever seen. That this version makes WB's Batman look like crap, that WB's Batman movies had no redeeming qualities. I can't stand that. So my review of the film was aimed, not at the filmmakers, but those fans. I was trying to point out why this isn't the best fanfilm, and trying to tell people what I did and didn't like at the same time. My review was harsh. Too harsh, too nitpicky. I think I wrote it at like 3:00 in the morning, but I don't remember. Anyway, I think the makers of the film deserve better treatment than to be unwittingly caught up in my argument that this isn't what people told me it was. For that I apologize. So, a slightly less nitpicky review:

The BATMAN: DEAD END team is to be commended. The film is beautiful, and it does get things write. Sandy Collora made this film to showcase his skills, and he did so. He does have some serious talent.

The actors were adequate, but I didn't feel like Clark Bartram quite fit the role. He did a good job, that can't be denied, but to me, the height is an issue, and his voice is just not what I picture when I think about Batman. It just wasn't, IMO, deep and hoarse enough. Watching it again, I was far too critical of Andrew Koenig. I think the main problem with The Joker was the dialogue. I based the "not impressed" idea on the fact that I thought he could have done more with what he was given. I still believe this, but he wasn't "bad". I, like many people, didn't care for this Joker's laugh.

As far as characterization goes, it doesn't apply as much as I thought it did. With the exception of Batman, there wasn't much. I don't think I was too far off. This Batman was getting ready to kill. He was speaking lines that had nothing to do with anything at the time. And I realize that this Batman was more of a brawler, but I do think he stayed down too long. Then again, he wasn't armored, and I've never been hit by a Predator.

I stand by my feelings on story. There was none to speak of.

The action was good. It could have been better. I still think the Burton and Schumacher entries did better than this as far as presenting a Batman who could fight. There was a lot of "posing".

The dialogue was bad. I can't change my mind on this point. The main problem I had with the dialogue was not that it was bad, but that it made no sense in the context of the situation. Batman and The Joker just started talking about who and what they are for no apparent reason. One line did not lead to another, and there couldn't be any meaning behind the dialogue when that happened.

Police Commissioner James Gordon. Not "Chief James Gordon".

Interesting take on the Bat-Signal. I liked it.

I swear on that closeup where he narrows his eyes, he looks like Kurt Russell. That was a great shot, and the white lenses worked well there, and at the end.

People hated Schumacher for it, but even here there were lots of extraneous noises, a la POWER RANGERS. When someone looks up abrubtly, as Batman did, theres usually not a whooshing sound. That sort of thing is not in the comic book or the show, so I'm not sure where it came from.

There were some editing problems, mostly in action scenes, that made things hard to see, or confusing. For instance, Batman took forever to get that batarang out and throw it, and The Utility Belt seemed to disappear right before he throws the batarang at the Predator. I noticed that it seemed to disappear whenever Batman went for a weapon.

The sets were good, and the atmosphere was great.

The music at the beginning, where he was suiting up, worked rather well. And the recognizable BATMAN and MASK OF THE PHANTASM themes were used well, too.

The Joker's makeup looked great. Much better than the BIRDS OF PREY Joker makeup, and even, dare I say, more realistic than Jack Nicholson's. Not too keen on the red and black under his eyes, or the enormous eyebrows, but the actual makeup looked great.

I'll admit, the gray and black costume looked better on film than it did in the pictures. It truly is the comic book costume come to life. And it does looks good. The aliens and predators looked great. And as far as acting goes, most of The Predators just sort of stood there, but the fellow in the Alien costume did a nice job bobbing and weaving and seeming more like a large insect's movements.

Overall, this was entertaining. It did entertain me. I watched it ten times the first time, and at least ten times since then. It was a great service to fans of Batman, just to see some of those moments.

------------------
BATMAN TRIUMPHANT (http://www.angelfire.com/comics/superpowers/BatmanTriumphant.html)

SUPERPOWERS (http://www.angelfire.com/comics/superpowers/Superpowers.html)

[ModeMan]

I still stand by my review, but there were some things I felt that I didn't say just because I didn't have time.
I thought your review was very nitpicky, but I still agree with you on some points. Truthfully, I thought Koenig sucked as Joker. Sorry to everyone who liked him, but I didn't buy it. He had a decent look and he seemed to be trying to pull off Hamill's Joker(which is good) but he couldn't pull it off and flat out couldn't act too well. His laugh was too short and stabby. But he wasn't completely awful. I know it could have been much worse.
I still loved Bartram. I know exactly what you're saying about the grunts and groans he made. Pissed me off too and seemed really out of character. In the beginning he did really well vocally, in my opinion. I don't, for a second, think Bartram is a better actor than Keaton, Kilmer, or Clooney(easily a better Batman than Clooney though). I think that he was better than them in that he really looked the part. Strong, defined face and jaw, muscular build. The WB films could have benefitted from it.
I thought the fighting was more fluid. Batman could actually move in the costume he was in. That's something I prefered to the WB movies. And if Batman's readiness to kill(what is his policy on brain sucking alien hunters anyway?) bothers you, it's certainly nothing that can be counted as a downfall as opposed to the films since Batman killed two men in the first one.
I still think the costume is better than in the movies. It doesn't look like something someone would wear in the real world. But neither does 20 pounds of rubber armor that would take an hour to get into and renders a man nearly immobile. Still, I say make the gray on the tights a little darker, and make it thicker. Like Spiderman's costume or something. Then we can accept that there's kevlar underneath, and Batman can take bullets again. Also, this is me being nitpicky, the spikes(for lack of a better word) on Batman's gloves in this movie were just leather and wiggled around a bit. There's gotta be a way to make them hard and look like they serve a purpose. The contacts were a brilliant idea. Giving Batman his white eyes without taking away his expressions. They should use that in a big budget. If he switched to night vision, give him green lenses or something. I know it can be done.
The diologue wasn't too outlandish. I could see it happening in a film. Joker even made the "You made me" argument in the first Burton movie. As for Joker being able to surprise Batman, Joker and Batman have been fighting forever and Joker still manages to surprise Batman all the freakin' time. And we've learned that he can actually be a formidable hand to hand fighter. He's usually able to get a few blows on Batman which really is saying a lot. As for the talking even happening at all, Joker is always able to get a few words in. And Batman often responds. So that didn't bother me at all.
Sure, the diologue could have been much better, but there was no story in this 8 minute film. It was just a filler. I wasn't expecting much.
Like I said, I don't agree that this is the best batfilm ever. But it was still good and has things that the makers of the next film should pay attentiont to.

[Frostbite]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ModeMan:
Also, this is me being nitpicky, the spikes(for lack of a better word) on Batman's gloves in this movie were just leather and wiggled around a bit. There's gotta be a way to make them hard and look like they serve a purpose.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What use to they have? I thought they were just to make him look more Bat-like. And they're called scallops, by the way.

[The Guard]

This is what we were told:

The short film written & directed by filmmaker Sandy Collora titled BATMAN: DEAD END, is probably the best screen depiction of the Dark Knight ever put on the screen.

Lots and lots and lots of this kind of thing. From people who are fans of the Batman characters and their world. Huge fans. Now, nothing can live up to that. Nothing (Except X2). So I tempered my enthusiam, and I tried not to get my hopes up. Still, I was expecting something really cool. I got it. BATMAN: DEAD END was absolutely beautiful. It had some great moments. It had a good atmosphere. But then I come back here, and every fanboy in the world has appeared and is spouting what someone else told him, that this is the best version of Batman we've ever seen. That this version makes WB's Batman look like crap, that WB's Batman movies had no redeeming qualities. I can't stand that. So my review of the film was aimed, not at the filmmakers, but those fans. I was trying to point out why this isn't the best fanfilm, and trying to tell people what I did and didn't like at the same time. My review was harsh. Too harsh, too nitpicky. I think I wrote it at like 3:00 in the morning, but I don't remember. Anyway, I think the makers of the film deserve better treatment than to be unwittingly caught up in my argument that this isn't what people told me it was. For that I apologize. So...a slightly less nitpicky review.

The BATMAN: DEAD END team is to be commended. The film is beautiful, and it does get things write. Sandy Collora made this film to showcase his skills, and he did so. He does have some serious talent.

The actors were adequate, but I didn't feel like Clark Bartram quite fit the role. He did a good job, that can't be denied, but to me, the height is an issue, and his voice is just not what I picture when I think about Batman. It just wasn't, IMO, deep and hoarse enough. Watching it again, I was far too critical of Andrew Koenig. I think the main problem with The Joker was the dialogue. I based the "not impressed" idea on the fact that I thought he could have done more with what he was given. I still believe this, but he wasn't "bad". I, like many people, didn't care for this Joker's laugh.

As far as characterization goes, it doesn't apply as much as I thought it did. With the exception of Batman, there wasn't much. I don't think I was too far off. This Batman was getting ready to kill. He was speaking lines that had nothing to do with anything at the time. And I realize that this Batman was more of a brawler, but I do think he stayed down too long. Then again, he wasn't armored, and I've never been hit by a Predator.

I stand by my feelings on story. There was none to speak of.

The action was good. It could have been better. I still think the Burton and Schumacher entries did better than this as far as presenting a Batman who could fight. There was a lot of "posing".

The dialogue was bad. I can't change my mind on this point. The main problem I had with the dialogue was not that it was bad, but that it made no sense in the context of the situation. Batman and The Joker just started talking about who and what they are for no apparent reason. One line did not lead to another, and there couldn't be any meaning behind the dialogue when that happened.

Police Commissioner James Gordon. Not "Chief James Gordon".

Interesting take on the Bat-Signal. I liked it.

I swear on that closeup where he narrows his eyes, he looks like Kurt Russell. That was a great shot, and the white lenses worked well there, and at the end.

People hated Schumacher for it, but even here there were lots of extraneous noises, a la POWER RANGERS. When someone looks up abrubtly, as Batman did, theres usually not a whooshing sound. That sort of thing is not in the comic book or the show, so I'm not sure where it came from.

There were some editing problems, mostly in action scenes, that made things hard to see, or confusing. For instance, Batman took forever to get that batarang out and throw it, and The Utility Belt seemed to disappear right before he throws the batarang at the Predator. I noticed that it seemed to disappear whenever Batman went for a weapon.

The sets were good, and the atmosphere was great.

The music at the beginning, where he was suiting up, worked rather well. And the recognizable BATMAN and MASK OF THE PHANTASM themes were used well, too.

The Joker's makeup looked great. Much better than the BIRDS OF PREY Joker makeup, and even, dare I say, more realistic than Jack Nicholson's. Not too keen on the red and black under his eyes, or the enormous eyebrows, but the actual makeup looked great.

I'll admit, the gray and black costume looked better on film than it did in the pictures. It truly is the comic book costume come to life. And it does looks good. The aliens and predators looked great. And as far as acting goes, most of The Predators just sort of stood there, but the fellow in the Alien costume did a nice job bobbing and weaving and seeming more like a large insect's movements.

Overall, this was entertaining. It did entertain me. I watched it ten times the first time, and at least ten times since then. It was a great service to fans of Batman, just to see some of those moments.

[The Xenos]

Just a few things I thought about..

One: The costume. I like it. Kinda. My only complaint, well not even complaint, is that it actually doesn't ahve enough armor. Now I like this a little better than the rubber Batarmor of the first films and certianly the last two (*shudder*). Yet I would hope Batman would have more armor like kevlar and nomex and other stuff. Actually, I rather wanna post these ideas.

Two: (spoiler?) not just Batman. This wasn't jsut a fanfilm featuring a Batman fanboy dream. It also features Aliens vs Predator. I'm sure there are tons of fans who ahve been waiting to see a film featuring that. Hopefully execs for those frnchises can learn something there too.

-Xenos

[D.K.HOOD]

Yeah, I agree he should have had a bulletproof vest on, but you have to wonder how that would look under a spandex suit.

[ModeMan]

I think it would be good enough to have Batman put on a tight fitting suit that's thicker than spandex(kind of like on Spider-Man), tell the audience there's kevlar woven into it, and just let us accept it. It would look fine.

What use to they have? I thought they were just to make him look more Bat-like. And they're called scallops, by the way.
I always assumed that they were there for the same reason Jango Fett has those spikes coming out of his gauntlets in Attack of the Clones. For similar situations, anyway, and to give some bad guys some nasty cuts in certain situations. These ends, of course, could not be achieved with the gloves worn in Dead End.

[Guestman]

There is a great 12 inch Batman doll on ebay right now, based on the Dead End movie.

[D.K.HOOD]

I'm giving this a bump because there is another bat-fan film out there being made that may have an even better looking Batman than Clark Bertram was in Dead End. Its called Dark Justice and its made by the same people who did a Batman Beyond Year One fan film last year(some of you might remember Essex's promotional posters for that).

Here's the info on the guy that's playing the Dark Knight. I got this off the message board on their website:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Many people have asked who is cast for Batman in Dark Justice. The actors name is Tanoai Reed. (pronounced Tah'-no-eye) He is 6'3" and 240lbs, and is best known for being the Rock's Stunt Double. He has appeared in many action movies including Scorpion King, Daredevil and most recently the Rundown. In the Rundown his biggest scene is when the jeep goes off the road and then you see him tumbling down a steep mountain side, then falling airborne 40 feet and finally splashing into a lagoon. In the Daredevil Movie he plays a body guard. He has a line saying, "Hey boss, what's up with that," looking over his shoulder at Daredevil. He then stands and points his gun at Daredevil. This scene on the DVD is number 8 on the scene selection about two minutes in. We were very impressed with his film resume and professional attitude. On the set It was a lot of fun working with him and he gave 100% all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can go here to see the pictures, just enter the Dark Justice site.
http://www.batinthesun.com/home.php

[JordanGLC]

He is 6'3" and 240lbs, and is best known for being the Rock's Stunt Double.

Isn't he also Rock's cousin? Thought I remembered that from the DD dvd commentary...

------------------
"10,000 cases!? What a waste of good beer!"
Midori Honami - Advent of Legion
The Green Library (http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&sub=comic&id=jordanglc)

[JordanGLC]

He is 6'3" and 240lbs, and is best known for being the Rock's Stunt Double.

Isn't he also the Rock's cousin? Thought I remembered that from the DD dvd commentary...

------------------
"10,000 cases!? What a waste of good beer!"
Midori Honami - Advent of Legion
The Green Library (http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&sub=comic&id=jordanglc)

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JordanGLC:
<B>Isn't he also the Rock's cousin? Thought I remembered that from the DD dvd commentary...

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know. I don't have the DVD.

[Sonic1002]

He looks rather impressive.

------------------
Now comes the part where I relieve you, the little people, of the burden of your failed and useless lives. But remember, as my plastic surgeon always said: if you gotta go, go with a smile.
-Joker

[GRIM]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D.K.HOOD:
<B>I've seen Batman Dead End. Oy! I think this is yet another example of a very talented fanboy trying to do too much in a "student film".


Spoilers!!
The good stuff pays homage to Batman:TAS, the first bat-flick and various Batman graphic novels. The Joker sounds a lot like Mark Hamill's version(which I love) but it affects the delivery of his lines and sometimes I swear that's Eddie Furlong from T2. There is also one perfect moment in this film that looks like Batman:TAS if it was done in Alex Ross' style. It even had Shirley Walker's instantly recognizable musical score playing in that scene. Batman and The Joker's confrontation is very good, not great, but very good. Then the Alien shows up and this is where the film goes horribly wrong. Then about 20 seconds after Alien shows up Predator comes into the film. He saves Batman's butt, but Batman still attacks him(?)! I'm guessing that these two are supposed to have a history together, but I don't read crossovers. Even though this part of the film sort of ruined it for me I have to admit the fight scene is done very well. At the conclusion you have an ending that would only have dorks drooling for more.

Although I had problems with this film I still recognize that the people who made it put a helluva lot of work into it, but I would ask the director not to do anymore crossover franchise films that are 8 minutes long. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

remember that this film was not meant to be seen by the normal geek nation, rather chosen movie execs, its a several thousand dollar buisness card, not plot needed, just something that sais, "hey, look what i can do." and what this film shows us is you can make a kickass batman without rubber and overpayed directors out to "modernize" or "styleize" our beloved batman.

------------------
DICK

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
<B> remember that this film was not meant to be seen by the normal geek nation, rather chosen movie execs, its a several thousand dollar buisness card, not plot needed, just something that sais, "hey, look what i can do." and what this film shows us is you can make a kickass batman without rubber and overpayed directors out to "modernize" or "styleize" our beloved batman.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, that review is old. I did that before the director ever did any interviews so at the time I didn't know any of that stuff, but yes I am very aware of what Sandy Collora's intentions were when he made Dead End.

[JordanGLC]

so, did you want this on DVD?

click me (http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=326784)

------------------
"10,000 cases!? What a waste of good beer!"
Midori Honami - Advent of Legion
The Green Library (http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&sub=comic&id=jordanglc)