What do you think about Poser?

[swingerbone]

I've been doing some thinking after my latest pieces and I'm thinking of going back more to my first pics style. I think I have relied a tad too much on Poser. I do the textures usually for the figures... but Maybe I should just use Poser for... well, the Pose and not the true basis. Find a headshot for whatever character... then layout the scene in Poser to get the pose and render. Costume post Poser and match shadows etc.

I do try and break up some of the Poser Stuff with some texture overlays in Photoshop.

What does everyone else think? I know some people hate Poser because it looks.. well, like Poser. I agree that it can, but can that be overcome efficiently? Is it worth it to spend the maximum effort in Poser of Post? I'm interested in everyone's takes on this... it may help me when it comes to future projects.

My main argument *for* Poser is that you *can* do any pose... and for those of us (like me) who are not as talented as some or lack a tablet and such, it's easier than drawing the pose from scratch. I for one am horrible when it comes to drawing and proportions. I simply can't make arms or legs look muscularly proportoined straight out of my head. I need reference. Perhaps I rely too much on Poser for that. Alex Ross uses friends for models to set up his poses and lighting... maybe Poser is best simply used in a similar fashion?
I'm curious to see what others think...

[localhero]

'Bone,

You make a lot of good points there, and personally I agree that Poser is probably best used as a start point for your manips. While I have seen some nice Poser work (check out DAuthority's gallery to see what i mean),they usually still look.. well.. a little plasticy.

I do think relying on Poser to do the whole job for you, is probably not the best way to improve anyone's own artistic ability. Use it to do what it says on the box - POSE - with as little extreme lighting as possible (shading can be added manually to match whatever pics you use for the facial expression.

It is also probably a good idea to find some nice reference shots for skin tones which you can use for coloring and texturing the entire pic (again helping to blend the Poser and live action elements together).

The other thing to pay attention to is not relying on Poser to do joint's properly, maybe keep some reference shots of elbows, knees and ankles that you can blend in over the poser joints to give you a more realistic feel.

Some good examples of blending Poser and real life can be found right here in the gallery, if you check out LadyD's gallery.

An alternative is to use Poser as the basis for more comic style manips, such as MarcusHislop seems to do. Again this is a blend of Poser and photoshop to get the effect you desire.

Just a few thoughts...


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Cheers,
Local (A local hero, for local people)

"So let me fill my children's hearts, With heroes tales and hope it starts,
A fire in them so deeds are done, With no vain sighs for moments gone"

[Marrow2000]

I don't think I've ever seen a good re-painted Poser image in the DCG gallery. Even professionals seem to have a hard time with Poser. They all look so life-less, and fake.

Poser eyes seem dead and cold, and it's just much to plasticy.

[Atomic Man]

The first time i used poser, i loved it! It seemed so real and easy! It could be modeled and all!!!

But then the perspectif problems began... figures with short feets and legs or muscles deformed...

And the figures srtated to look less real

I gave up on poser and i only used it if i can't get a good base pict...

Spider-Man i do it always on poser.

[Anyte]

A digital camera, even a cheap one, and a friend (or a mini tripod and a timer feature) are much better than Poser. No matter how much time and effort you put into it, it's recognizable as Poser from a quarter mile off. And, like a fast-food burger, Poser pictures are neither rare nor well done. Poser just looks, well, posed. If you absolutely must use it, hide it. Hide it as much as you possibly can. Frankenstein things over it. Toss deep shadows over it. You can use Poser but it's something you should be deeply, deeply ashamed of. Try to make sure that no one knows. If they can tell by looking at your art, they will heckle you. Okay, I'm sorry, that last bit was just cruel. Seriously, if you're willing to work with it and accept the limitations...it's okay. Not great, but okay. I do think you should work without it some of the time. Get as much variety as you can in your methods. Expand your horizons.

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Anyte ~
I'd explain, but I don't have enough puppets.

[Frostbite]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anyte:
You can use Poser but it's something you should be deeply, deeply ashamed of. Try to make sure that no one knows. If they can tell by looking at your art, they will heckle you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haha.

[D.K.HOOD]

How do I feel about Poser? Well, in a fit of rage I completely deleted it from my computer. That's how I feel about it. I firmly believe Poser's main purpose is to make life easier for 3D animators. And for that purpose it is fantastic. I got a couple of pics out of it because its always fun to try out different software, but after a time it slowly became a hinderance for me.

[Lady D]

Well,I often use Poser,and I don't think it's a so awful thing when you know how to use the software (what isn't my case anyway).I use Poser specially for the male poses I can't find anywhere; and also when I wanna do a more "heroic" attitude..it's specially hard find good base pics!Yes,they do look fake when we compare them to the humans in real photo shoots.
I avoid use Poser faces in my pics,because they all look SO UGLY!
But I admit,I prefer work with good base pics of real people.If I can't have them,I use Poser.It's a resource as franksteining,at leats to me.

My 2 cents!

Kisses,

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**For the Freedom of Choice**
http://www.livejournal.com/users/lady_d/

Debbie aka Lady D.

[RyanArya]

I like some Poser pictures that turn up in the gallery, I just cringe at the one’s where you see twists under the armpits etc. I got the program awhile back and find it complicated to use, I need someone to sit down and teach me.

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“You know people like you are the reason I was afraid to go to school as a child” - http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/morph.gif

[This message has been edited by RyanArya (edited 05-04-2003).]

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by swingerbone:
My main argument *for* Poser is that you *can* do any pose... and for those of us (like me) who are not as talented as some or lack a tablet and such, it's easier than drawing the pose from scratch. I for one am horrible when it comes to drawing and proportions. I simply can't make arms or legs look muscularly proportoined straight out of my head.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just saw some Poser 5 work recently and I can honestly say the program is making progress (skin looks alot more natural). So much so I spent time on Kazaa to pull down Poser 5 and take a look, it's not too bad, a definite improvement.

Poser is not the only app for posing. You can use any 3d program for posing (Maya, 3dMax, lightwave, etc) you just have to build the model and joints. The aforementioned 3d apps will definitely outdo poser everytime. however your not really looking at a quick manip using them.

The biggest problem with poser is poser. The app itself is designed as a shortcut to modeling a human or whatever. This isn't a bad thing, but with shortcuts you get less. I've never seen Poser artwork come close to any traditional 3d app artwork. Yeah we can get into rendering software, blah blah blah but that's a different post.

I share your frustration (i'm not a natural artist) but I want to do great work. Poser seems like a great app, and to some extent it is. I think that it is best used in little doses. Use a poser for the pose, use photoshop for the costume.

Photoshop, PSP, Painter, etc are far more valuable to you as a manipper. Being really good at either of them will get you a job. I've never seen a posting for "Poser artist needed.."

A Wacom tablet is a necessity for an artist. I can't stress how much simpler manips are with it. Art design as a whole is easier. A Graphire2 is about $100 and worth every penny. It's what I use and I have no complaints. I would buy an Intuos2 if I had the workspace for it (damn 21" monitor).

I have now gotten off the topic.

Poser? I'd use it for poses if needed. I wouldn't use clothing or such from it, you can create better stuff in photoshop. I would suggest if you continue to use Poser to check out Poser 5, much imporved over 4.

dperceful

[Sticks]

Personally I think the biggest problem with poser pictures is the lights. most people only use the default lights and, thus, everything looks all poser-y.

Try posing the figure, then playing with the lights.
There a a whole load of other presets that you can use, or make your own.
I know traveller has several REALLY nice sets.

You might want to try that. Instead of thinking of it just as a posing program, think of it as a whole photography studio in a box.

Worst comes, try exporting and importing into a better renderer, like Bryce or Studiomax.

Don't give up on it, great pictures can come from poser, expecially if you mix them up with photoshop etc...

i'll see if i can't find some links to great shots...

pax

[dperceful]

oh yeah i didn't even think to tell you to check out my post in the hint and tips section for some great poser tutorials. the tutorials deal with hair and other stuff to clean up poser work.

dperceful

[Lady D]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dperceful:
[B}A Wacom tablet is a necessity for an artist. I can't stress how much simpler manips are with it. Art design as a whole is easier. A Graphire2 is about $100 and worth every penny. It's what I use and I have no complaints. I would buy an Intuos2 if I had the workspace for it (damn 21" monitor).
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joinning you in the off topic thing...

I don't have a tablet,I use the mouse to do my manips.I checked the prices,but here in Brazil they are kinda too expensive (at least for me,since I am an amateur in this entire digital world - I am lawyer,u know...:P).

I am also trying to get a copy of Poser 5 (Oh I came back to topic!) to test it,but with my connection it will take around 3.000 hours to finish the download.Isn't it *cool* http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/rolleyes.gif ?!?!? But I read somewhere this new version has nice resources,as the hair growing stuff http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif.

Kisses,



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**For the Freedom of Choice**
http://www.livejournal.com/users/lady_d/

Debbie aka Lady D.

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lady D:
<B> Joinning you in the off topic thing...
I don't have a tablet,I use the mouse to do my manips.I checked the prices,but here in Brazil they are kinda too expensive (at least for me,since I am an amateur in this entire digital world - I am lawyer,u know...:P). I am also trying to get a copy of Poser 5 (Oh I came back to topic!) to test it,but with my connection it will take around 3.000 hours to finish the download.Isn't it *cool* http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/rolleyes.gif ?!?!? But I read somewhere this new version has nice resources,as the hair growing stuff http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif.
Kisses,
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as the tablet goes i still say it's a sound investment. I had to use the mouse for a lot of my manips, it's not imposiible with a mouse, just easier with the pen.

If your a student you can write it off as an educational expense. If you do graphics as part of your business, well you can write it off as a business expense.

As far as Poser 5, I've seen the hair growing part, just haven't messed with it. Your poser work is very good, very hard to tell it's poser. As far as downloading Poser 5, I can't help you there (your connection is your connection). I can talk to you out of this forum on how you can get the app via other means. My email is dperceful@yahoo.com

[Sticks]

Here are some links to some pretty good pix done with poser...

Here is an amazing Superman http://www.curiouslabs.com/ezimagecatalogue/catalogue/variations/807-650x1500.jpg

http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200305/GalleryImage395894.jpg
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200305/GalleryImage394635.jpg
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200305/GalleryImage394620.jpg
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage389220.jpg
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage377741.jpg
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage385756.jpg
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage385445.jpg

Kind of a cool hulk here.. small, but well done... http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage384113.jpg

one side, not so good, the other.. WOW! http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage379653.jpg

This next one is only here for the lower half of the body... VERY nice! http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200303/GalleryImage358995.jpg

This one for the head.. the costume is too painted on... http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200303/GalleryImage356268.jpg

and this... ummm dude, it's called "Smooth Nipples"... http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200303/GalleryImage355889.jpg

Kind of a cool Iron Man in a comic booky style http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200303/GalleryImage351686.jpg

check the metalwork! http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200303/GalleryImage349921.jpg

and this one by d_authority, which may or may not have shown up here.. wowie! http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200301/GalleryImage320254.jpg

This one has some problems, but has some of the nicest eye work i've seen! http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage380357.jpg

this one, face is a bit screwy, but the body is well done...

NUDITY WARNING!
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage379603.jpg

Lotsa post work in this one, but...

HOLY MOLEY this is good!
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage281219.jpg

this one needs about 20 minutes more work, but is awesome http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200212/GalleryImage294102.jpg

JINKIES i like this one of Wolverine http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200301/GalleryImage311293.jpg

Lotsa post in this, but wow http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage370177.jpg

this one is gorgeous! http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage384118.jpg

Libery by Sydd Raven... Very old school.. and good! http://www.curiouslabs.com/ezimagecatalogue/catalogue/variations/703-650x1500.jpg

Interesting and different http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200302/GalleryImage335039.jpg

this one came SECOND in a contest! http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200304/GalleryImage379208.jpg

that's it, cuz even I'M getting annoyed with myself... but, before you go, ceck out THIS guys work! http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=davidho

pax

[This message has been edited by Sticks (edited 05-07-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Sticks (edited 05-07-2003).]

[Sticks]

Wow.. also check out the gallery at Curious Labs, the new-ish makers of Poser!
http://www.curiouslabs.com/article/archive/103/?df=1

pax

[Sticks]

here's an amazing Batman! http://www.curiouslabs.com/ezimagecatalogue/catalogue/variations/803-650x1500.jpg

pax

[Sticks]

just bumping...