Mac or PC?

[Atomic Man]

Hi, i know some of you are just curious, some of you are art designers, etc.

The question is:
Is it Mac better in the Graphic Industry?

Some Graphic Designers students i know, told me Mac is only a Myth...

[localhero]

it's not the platform.. it's the artist... up to a point..it's also how they use the software available.

To work professionally I would guess you should be proficient in Photoshop which comes in both MAC and PC flavours.. so if you can make it dp what you want to on one platform, your only stumbling block should be the differences due to platform.. i.e. MACs one button mouse(???)/menu system. Although if you use a usb pen/table the whole process of switching between platforms should be eased somewhat.

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Cheers,
Local
aka Hunk McCoy "Is it true what they say about guys with big feet? Yes they do need big shoes."

"So let me fill my children's hearts, With heroes tales and hope it starts, A fire in them so deeds are done, With no vain sighs for moments gone."

[Juvenilemike]

The only difference really comes down to style. You can get two (and even 5) button mice for macs, and pretty much every type of software. The processing/storage times are pretty much the same on top end systems. At least you wouldn't notice the difference. I'm a Pc man, but remember Pc's don't just mean Windows. Try linux http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif
Mike

[Atomic Man]

This is not a question about what do you prefer, since i'm a pc man too...

I'm really asking what the graphic designers here think... What's the reason for the graphic industry still prefer Mac? Is it because it's better (faster rendering of somekind) or is it all a myth?

To me, Mac is less user friendly, wich i think is bad... but since i prefer photoshop wich everyone says is less user friendly than PSP, i guess it's just an opinion...

[jemstone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic Man:
<B>This is not a question about what do you prefer, since i'm a pc man too...

I'm really asking what the graphic designers here think... What's the reason for the graphic industry still prefer Mac? Is it because it's better (faster rendering of somekind) or is it all a myth?

To me, Mac is less user friendly, wich i think is bad... but since i prefer photoshop wich everyone says is less user friendly than PSP, i guess it's just an opinion...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Speaking as a professionally trained graphic designer (San Jose Central County Occupational Center, Class of 1990), I'll tell you flatly that anyone that tells you that Windows or Linux are 100% equivalent to the Macintosh for terms of graphic design or digital composition is out of their gourd. There are any number of reasons why, but the major points are:

The Graphic Industry standard is 72 dots per inch of measurement. One Inch = 72 points = 72 pica and that is a mathematical certainty. Windows (and most denominations of Linux and yes I have checked) runs on a 96 dpi standard unless you get in and tweak it in ways that never seem to stick (and believe me, I've tried), which ends up with all your measurements coming out just plain wrong, which is truly annoying.

Mac OS allows for independant assignation of gamma per window. This is not a third party software capacity, this is an OS integral capacity. Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark, Pain... er, Pagemaker, and the like all take advantage of this. You cannot do this in Windows, and I am unaware of whether or not any Linux flavors allow for this. This might not seem like such a big issue, but when you're trying to color balance four things at once, and you need to have different gamma on each one, you'll very quickly get annoyed at Windows. Note that I haven't played with XP, so I have no clue if MS has changed this. I have yet to see this work in GIMP.

The RISC processors of the Mac hardware platform allow for faster filter effects and faster instruction throughput, and I've tested this myself on identically equipped Windows and Macintosh machines using the same software on the same images (had to do this for an exercise in class). When all is said and done, I'd rather have my stuff done faster and quicker, instead of waiting around for things to go.

I will not get in to the debate about Windows Vs. Macintosh, because while I use a Mac almost exclusively, I also use Windows and really do support people using what they prefer (it's called OS Buddhism. All OS is suffering!), but I will say this: There's a very very good reason that Windows hasn't made great leaps and bounds into the graphics industry, and it's pretty obvious if you think about it.

-JEM

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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)

[Atomic Man]

Jemstone,

Thanks for your considerations on the matter! i really had no iea of those things you said!

The only one i guess i knew was the faster rendering and use of filters, alltough i don't know the explanaton for that since the graphic cards on PC have been highly developed, like Matrox 128MB, and i haven't heard any development on Mac...

[jemstone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic Man:
<B>Jemstone,

Thanks for your considerations on the matter! i really had no iea of those things you said!

The only one i guess i knew was the faster rendering and use of filters, alltough i don't know the explanaton for that since the graphic cards on PC have been highly developed, like Matrox 128MB, and i haven't heard any development on Mac...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All current Macintosh models use either a high end Nvidia graphics chip, or an ATI Radeon 9500 or therabouts.

Go check out www.apple.com (http://www.apple.com) if you're interested in knowing what kind of widgets are under the hood. You might be surprised. Or you might not. Depends. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

-JEM

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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)

[Atomic Man]

Once again jemstone thanks for the info!

I heard the new mac processors were being made by Intel... wich means:

"I still can't understand the discrepancies! Either PC guys aren't interested in the things you pointed out (wich make the mac beter to the graphic industries), or there's some kind of obscure motif i can't figure out).

The idea that PCs are only for games died years ago! They have the same software!!!

Btw, jemstone, one other question: If you make something in freehand, corel, quark, pagemaker, photoshop (or any other designer software) in Mac is it compatible with pc, i mean is there any way to make it viewable in PC?

[WC]

Macs have some strange mice with odd shapes and which cats could find unusual to work with or to chase. PCs have more traditional mice which are much better for cats.

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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[Essex]

Very informative, JEM. Very well written.

Personally, I use Mac OS X and find it MORE user friendly than Windows, especially for quick CD burning, digital camera hook-ups and, in fact, ANY USB-based utility. Way easier than on a PC! All the software is built right into OS. Aside from that, OS X is more attractive, runs faster and makes it much easier to juggle numerous programs at once. From my own experience, I prefer it highly over Windows.

The only obstacle some may have trouble with is the 1-button mouse. However, you have to remember, a Mac isn't built to ONLY handle one button; that is just what it is packaged with. You can still buy nearly any USB-based optical two-button mouse and it'll work fine on a mac.

Plus, the very convenient built-in voice activation software makes using Photoshop even easier. You can program PS to respond to your voice saying "save" or "open" or "zoom in" or anything and your mouse will never have to leave your canvas.

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"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[Marcelo Gomes]

I prefer PCs. why?

First, MACs are cute, but they all cost a small fortune.
Second, it´s almost impossible to find software for them. Even if you intend to buy it.
Third, it´s also hard to find support for them. Even if you intend to pay for it.

This refers to the brazilian market ok? I have friends that use MACs and they all complain about that.

And I think PCs are better for games.... that´s very important to me http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

[Juvenilemike]

And Macs aren't built for upgradability.

Mike
~gimme Risc over Cisc anyday!~

[jemstone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic Man:
<B>Once again jemstone thanks for the info!

I heard the new mac processors were being made by Intel... wich means:

"I still can't understand the discrepancies! Either PC guys aren't interested in the things you pointed out (wich make the mac beter to the graphic industries), or there's some kind of obscure motif i can't figure out).

The idea that PCs are only for games died years ago! They have the same software!!!

Btw, jemstone, one other question: If you make something in freehand, corel, quark, pagemaker, photoshop (or any other designer software) in Mac is it compatible with pc, i mean is there any way to make it viewable in PC?

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't heard anything about Intel making processors, although it's likely that Apple will be going to the Power 970 series made by IBM rather than the current PowerPC 7500 series made by Motorola.

As far as the discrepancies go, well... What don't you understand? I'll try to clear them up (says the user of all platforms and master of two).

As far as games go, the Mac OS has every single A list (note the distinction) game that has come out in the last four years either on it or coming very very very soon (including the entire EQ and Sims lines).

And to answer the last question: YES. Mac OS is built from the ground up with an eye toward cross platform compatibility. In fact, you're more likely to be able to use a Mac file on a Windows box while using the same applications than you are the other way around. OS X is even more so, with it's integrated Apache webserver (for all manner of web applications), SMB file mounting services, and BSD subsystems (for using Unix applications).

Like I said, go check out the Apple site. There's WAY more information there than I could ever give out here.

-JEM

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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)

[jemstone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Essex:
Very informative, JEM. Very well written.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks. I try to be objective and fair. It's hard to do in a thread that will, as we see later on down the line, here, eventually turn into the same kind of "Is too!" "Is not!" thread that usually results from such questions.

Personally, I use Mac OS X and find it MORE user friendly than Windows, especially for quick CD burning, digital camera hook-ups and, in fact, ANY USB-based utility. Way easier than on a PC! All the software is built right into OS. Aside from that, OS X is more attractive, runs faster and makes it much easier to juggle numerous programs at once. From my own experience, I prefer it highly over Windows.

All very good user based reasons, too. Something else that needs to be pointed out is that while a lot of people claim that Adobe products aren't very friendly on Windows, there are just as many people who will point out how user friendly Adobe products are on the Mac. This is because the API's in Windows that Adobe tries to call aren't as robust and stable as they are on the Mac. Remember, the Macintosh was built from day one as a professional machine, and Apple worked and does work VERY CLOSELY with Adobe to make sure the software works the way it should. Microsoft is NOT known for working closely with ANYONE to do that. Because Adobe isn't allowed into the software the same way they are with Apple, you get usability issues. Now, this is all simply my observations based on using the programs for over a decade, so take it with salt, but, still.

The only obstacle some may have trouble with is the 1-button mouse. However, you have to remember, a Mac isn't built to ONLY handle one button; that is just what it is packaged with. You can still buy nearly any USB-based optical two-button mouse and it'll work fine on a mac.

Yes. I have a five button scroll mouse built by Logitech, and in OS X I can use every single button without ever installing special software. That's cool. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Plus, the very convenient built-in voice activation software makes using Photoshop even easier. You can program PS to respond to your voice saying "save" or "open" or "zoom in" or anything and your mouse will never have to leave your canvas.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this is a reason why so many disability programs use Macs instead of Windows, actually.

-JEM

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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)

[jemstone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marcelo Gomes:
<B>I prefer PCs. why?

First, MACs are cute, but they all cost a small fortune.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm going to try and avoid the "Mac Vs. Windows" flame war that's invariably going to happen on this thread, but that's simply not true.

If you buy a Windows machine with the same capacity and the same hardware quality as a baseline Macintosh, you will, in fact, pay more for the Windows box. I have priced this time and time again. For a short while, I worked as the Operations Manager at a paper company, and pricing this stuff out was my daily duty. While there are GREAT deals on Windows machines that can be had, the machines you get with those deals invariably break down very soon after they're purchased. The shelf life and survivability of the Mac hardware platform is legendary, to the point that Mr. Dell has said that he wishes his company could build machines that last as long as Apple. True story.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Second, it´s almost impossible to find software for them. Even if you intend to buy it.
Third, it´s also hard to find support for them. Even if you intend to pay for it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Second, this is also simply not true. While Apple's retail presence outside the USA is almost nil, and I agree to this, Apple has an extensive network of software developers and has been doing online sales for nearly a decade. Want software? Go to www.apple.com (http://www.apple.com) and BUY IT. You'll find it cheaper than you would in a store, and they have a customer care phone number to answer your questions.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>This refers to the brazilian market ok? I have friends that use MACs and they all complain about that.

And I think PCs are better for games.... that´s very important to me http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*nod* Like I said, the Brazilian market is sadly not touched like it should be by the Apple retail presence. This is a mistake I really feel Apple should address (including Europe and Asia) if they want more saturation.

However, I also restate: All A-List game titles are either on the Mac or will be there by the end of the year.

Funny story: in 1984, people said "Don't buy a Mac! They only play games! You can't do as many business applications with them!"

Now, they say "Don't buy a Mac! They only do business applications! You can't play games with them!"

Funny how that goes, huh?

-JEM

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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)

[jemstone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juvenilemike:
<B>And Macs aren't built for upgradability.

Mike
~gimme Risc over Cisc anyday!~</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, they are. The iMac is not intended to be upgraded, because, quite frankly, it doesn't NEED to be. The eMac is the same way. These are baseline machines that are intended to be used by a Joe-End-User buyer and kept in a house for about five or six years, at which point their resale value will still be high (because Macs, for some reason I can't fathom completely, have a HUGE resale value at ages that turn Windows machines into paperweights), then resold, and replaced.

The Towers, on the other hand, are built from day one for upgradability. As are the new X-Serves. (I want one, I really do, but they're noisy as hell)

And yeah, RISC rules. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

-JEM

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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)

[Essex]

I don't know what to say, as you pretty much said everything possible, JEM http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif I will add however, that the only time I've been angry that I have a Mac is when I wanted Kazaa, a prog I use frequently on my PC. There simply isn't a Mac version. HOWEVER, iTunes, Mac's music program, is just brilliant. Combined with Acquisition, a popular P2P prog, they organize MP3s for you automatically as soon as they're downloaded and create automatic playlists.

While Macs are frequently a little more expensive, I was lucky. I didn't pay much more than what I paid for my PC, and the Mac is obviously a far superior machine in every way, not to mention it contains a DVD burner and a gorgeous wide/flat screen. That in itself was enough to say me to the side of the Macs http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/wink.gif We won't get into the fact that I haven't technically PAID for all of it yet... heh heh

Service on a Mac often has more to do with where you actually buy it from. I have a warranty on mine that guarantees service on it for three years. If it can't be fixed locally at the store, they give me a new machine on the spot. That's good enough for me! It's too bad you wouldn't have the same thing in Brazil, Marcelo http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/frown.gif


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"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[Juvenilemike]

Jem you've clearly got me outclassed when it comes to the knowledge stakes here but that's never stopped me before :P

I don't think it's fair to say that Macs and Pcs have the same amount of upgradibility. As far as I can tell there are far more manufacturers catering to Pc upgrades than there are for Macs. This gives a broader market and thus cheaper prices. Also, it's important to note that I'm not saying that folks should neccesarily use Windows here, I agree that Unix is an awesome fairly unbreakable system that Microsoft could learn a lot from.

But given the choice between a top end system from ethier I'd pick a PC. Why? Well when I used a mac (and this was some time ago) I remember the feeling of being cut off. Everything was hidden behind a very attractive iron door. This meant that it was really uber-user-friendly (something macs are great for) but I felt trapped whenever anything did go wrong. Also I'm a computer enthusiast and I want my system to be mine. I want to install the graphics card that I want and the sound card and maybe get a funky case. I know this can all be done with Macs, but not half as easy.

It all boils down to customer base.
Macs are a complete solution. They work well and they've got a really friendly interface. The more powerful ones are *really* powerful and enable you to do lots, though you pay.

Pcs are babies. They may not work straight out but you tinker with them and tweak them until you know the inner workings of the system and everything works perfectly. They're a little buggy, not allways attractive, but they have a huge market for components and are pretty checp.

Mike
~waiting to be shot down~

[RyanArya]

I prefer PC's http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif

[jemstone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juvenilemike:
Jem you've clearly got me outclassed when it comes to the knowledge stakes here but that's never stopped me before :P<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nor should it. I'm NOT, and I can't say this enough, getting into the "Which is better for everyone" argument, here. There's no POINT to it. In fact, most Mac-o-philes I know will agree: There is no point to arguing it. IBM clones are GREAT for tinker-toy lovers. Macs are not. There is no argument. It's when you get into the software and functionality of the thing that the differences really arise. Why bother to argue?

Said before, say again: USE WHAT YOU WANT TO USE.

But don't go around slamming another platform just because you don't understand it. That's just infantile.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
I don't think it's fair to say that Macs and Pcs have the same amount of upgradibility. As far as I can tell there are far more manufacturers catering to Pc upgrades than there are for Macs. This gives a broader market and thus cheaper prices. Also, it's important to note that I'm not saying that folks should neccesarily use Windows here, I agree that Unix is an awesome fairly unbreakable system that Microsoft could learn a lot from.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Five years ago, you'd have been one hundred percent correct. Today, the numbers are nearly equal in terms of diversity and add-ons. In fact, a lot of hardware manufacturers are making upgrades on the sly for the Mac before they put them onto the Windows world. Why? Because the Hardware QC for the Mac is a thousand times more stringent than you're going to find for any kind of IBM clone.

As to the whole UNIX/Windows thing, well, duh. UNIX is the worlds oldest non-mainframe Operating System. It stands to reason it'd be far more mature than Windows. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
But given the choice between a top end system from ethier I'd pick a PC. Why? Well when I used a mac (and this was some time ago) I remember the feeling of being cut off. Everything was hidden behind a very attractive iron door. This meant that it was really uber-user-friendly (something macs are great for) but I felt trapped whenever anything did go wrong. Also I'm a computer enthusiast and I want my system to be mine. I want to install the graphics card that I want and the sound card and maybe get a funky case. I know this can all be done with Macs, but not half as easy. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And again, I say that five years ago, you'd have been one hundred percent correct. Go check out Core Crib computers, who are building off the rack Macs without Operating Systems, allowing you to customize your entire purchase and get a hardware equivalent machine for about one half to two thirds the price.

Or the fact that NVidia and ATI are pushing their newest cards onto the Mac well before the Windows market.

It's all a matter of keeping current. Like I've said, I've used just about every form of OS there is out there. It helps to be Platform Agnostic. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
It all boils down to customer base.
Macs are a complete solution. They work well and they've got a really friendly interface. The more powerful ones are *really* powerful and enable you to do lots, though you pay.

Pcs are babies. They may not work straight out but you tinker with them and tweak them until you know the inner workings of the system and everything works perfectly. They're a little buggy, not allways attractive, but they have a huge market for components and are pretty checp.

Mike
~waiting to be shot down~</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why the hell would I want to shoot you down, Mike?

You're pretty much absolutely in agreement with me on everything I've said, and I agree with YOU on just about everything you've said. It's not always an argument, man. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

My point is this: People should use what they want to use. If they don't like a platform, they should be able to say, in no uncertain terms, and using facts, not anectdotes, why they do not.

I do not like Windows overall because, for terms of graphics and design, its math is all wrong. When it tells me that it's giving me an inch of measurement, because it uses 96dpi as a standard and not 72dpi, it gives me an inch and a quarter. A Mac does not. I cannot assign gamma independantly on Windows. I can on a Mac. Windows crashes when doing simple filter renders. Macs do not. In fact, the Windows machines we use at my job crash about four times a day, and that's just while using our monitoring tools and WEB BROWSERS, for cryin' out loud. My OS 9 and OS X machines have crashed... erm... in the last six months? Never. And my OS X machine has been running for two hundred and ten days without a reboot. That says something.

But if I want to play a non-A list game, or I want to play Neverwinter Nights and build modules for it, or do some really late night gaming or the like? Windows, man.

It's all, like, mellow, man. Groovy. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

-JEM

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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)

[jemstone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RyanArya:
I prefer PC's http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

(Oh, I'm going to get hit for this one...)

I'm glad you prefer Personal Computers.

I like them better than Mainframes, myself. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

-JEM

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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)

[Solid Snake]

E A SPORTS BIG!!

[Atomic Man]

Jemstone you're the man!

You seem to have understanded correctly what i wanted... it was not about opinions, like i prefer pc, or i prefer mac... it was all about facts on the Graphic Industry... I was hopping for the commentaries like "They bought the mac costly, now they have to use them, even if PCs are allready better", or "It's harder to learn mac, but once you learned it there's no need to go back to pc", something like that...

But you proved your point with three facts and a lot of responses on mike doubts (wich i can say were mine also)

I'm not going to buy a Mac, i allready have a PC at home, but i needed to know what makes mac so needed in the graphic industry.

[Juvenilemike]

Lol, I love the non-infantile use of duh there :P

Why would I be shot down? Well for every post you've put up like three times as much text which is kinda intimadating and I know we agree on the basis (that the system depends on the user) but for AM to get a broad perspective I thought it best to put my two cents in. Clearly you prefer Macs for everyday use whereas I prefer windows boxes.

I still disagree about the upgradability factor, I just can't see the current marketplace being so wide for Mac users. In my town here in the Uk there's four pc shops within five minutes walk and one mac. Which is unusual. Usually no mac stores :P

So getting back to Atomic Man's point. The only difference really comes down to style. You can get pretty much every type of software for both. The processing times are pretty much the same on top end systems. At least you wouldn't notice the difference.

I think Macs do a really great job of hiding the insides of the system, and are pretty powerful. They look lovely too. So for graphics work they should be fine. But if you ever want to explore your system further then I'd go with a Pc.

Mike

[Ed Hopkins]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juvenilemike:
I still disagree about the upgradability factor, I just can't see the current marketplace being so wide for Mac users. In my town here in the Uk there's four pc shops within five minutes walk and one mac. Which is unusual. Usually no mac stores :P<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In my town there are 7-elevens and McDonalds everywhere, and they have the most commercials, but I don't think they have the best food around. I'm almost always willing to drive a little farther and pay a little more to get a better meal.

If there is one thing that Apple has not mastered, that is marketing. Of course, marketing and product quality have nothing to do with each other. In fact, the company with the inferior product HAS to have the better marketing dept. or they go out of business. The shame for all of us is when strong marketing wins and the company with the stong product goes out of business.

Who here remembers VHS vs. BetaMax? Sony's Beta was the better home video format, but JVC was so much more successful at marketing their product that Beta went bust. People who bought VHS machines made fun of others who bought Beta players as if that was a stupid choice. That really used to burn me up.

It's the same way with Macs. I have an iMac and a Dell. I use the Mac every day for work, art and internet. I use the Dell for games only, because you can get games for Windows sooner, cheaper and at more stores than you can for Mac. That's marketing and nothing else. The few games I do have for Mac work just as well or better.

My fear is that people will keep choosing the inferior product just because it's the most popular sales-wise. If you ask 100 people what they use, 90 will say Windows. Then ask them how they feel about it and you will find that most are frustrated and say that they only picked Windows to be compatible with work or school or because that's all their local store carried.

Don't let Mac become the next Beta!


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Visit my homepage! (http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze49p8r/home.html)

[This message has been edited by Ed Hopkins (edited 06-04-2003).]

[Juvenilemike]

Ok, going off on a tangent here, but seeing as my no topic rebellion crashed and burned I have the right to be bitter http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif.

Didn't Betamax go under because it was suppressed due to heavy copyright litagation. It was before my time, so I could be wrong.

I don't know how fair it is to say that a company with better marketing will neccessarily have a weaker product. Sony for example are incredibly proficient in both arenas. Also I don't know how weak Apple's marketing is. We all know about iMacs. The apple logo is fairly well known. Apple's huge turnaround in the last couple of years has been through some fairly successful marketing which saw the Mac linked with arty/trendy types. Think Sex in the City. The Mac has become the Gap of the pc world. A few ad's all very stylized.

Also as I've said above, and as Jemstone will (I think) agree, neither system is irrefutably better. Just more appropriate. Like baseball bats, some people like a wooden one some aluminum, some swap about. They both have advantages and disadvantages and appeal to a different style of user.

So why can't we all just get along? And no that's not my way of insinuating that there's some kind of file interchange problem. Mac's are great for that http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/wink.gif

Mike

[wizardefxr]

The obvious solution is to get both. What surprises me is that nobody recommended using a Wacom tablet with the graphics program, especially photoshop. I see alot of photomanips done with just a mouse and in 99% of the picts you can tell it was done with a mouse. The wacom can be used with either platform and it gives the freedom that you would have drawing with a pencil or painting with a brush. The pen is pressure sensitve which gives you a way lot more control than a mouse.
So no matter what plaform you use....get yourself a WACOM tablet.
By the way, I use both plateforms but I perfer the Mac by far.

[localhero]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by localhero:
Although if you use a usb pen/table the whole process of switching between platforms should be eased somewhat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

erm..we did mention tablets.. way back when...

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Cheers,
Local
aka Hunk McCoy "Is it true what they say about guys with big feet? Yes they do need big shoes."

"So let me fill my children's hearts, With heroes tales and hope it starts, A fire in them so deeds are done, With no vain sighs for moments gone."

[WC]

I personally prefer Allison Mack - but there's a whole thread dedicated to her in the Superman forum, so I'll be quiet now! http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[Juvenilemike]

Wahoo, she's a hottie. Btw, WelshCat are you actually Welsh? I went to Tenby over Easter, that was one awesome beach.

Mike

[jemstone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic Man:
<B>Jemstone you're the man!

You seem to have understanded correctly what i wanted... it was not about opinions, like i prefer pc, or i prefer mac... it was all about facts on the Graphic Industry... I was hopping for the commentaries like "They bought the mac costly, now they have to use them, even if PCs are allready better", or "It's harder to learn mac, but once you learned it there's no need to go back to pc", something like that...

But you proved your point with three facts and a lot of responses on mike doubts (wich i can say were mine also)

I'm not going to buy a Mac, i allready have a PC at home, but i needed to know what makes mac so needed in the graphic industry.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you. I do try.

For the record, I used to be the biggest Mac Zealot I could ever have known. That all changed one morning when I realized "You know what? When all is said and done, it just doesn't really matter all that much. Huh. Weird. Oh, well, cool anyway!"

I think part of it was that while I like to be informed and use facts in my arguments, I was running into people who were not. By FAR, I was running into people who were not. They were spouting nonsense, actually, and I think that was what helped wake me up.

Anyway, on to finish installing BSD on my new 17" powerbook. YAY!

-JEM

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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)

[jemstone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juvenilemike:
Lol, I love the non-infantile use of duh there :P<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks. I was hoping it would be amusing. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
Why would I be shot down? Well for every post you've put up like three times as much text which is kinda intimadating and I know we agree on the basis (that the system depends on the user) but for AM to get a broad perspective I thought it best to put my two cents in. Clearly you prefer Macs for everyday use whereas I prefer windows boxes. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry if I seem to be trying to shoot you down. I just happen to like to be as articulate as possible in conversations like these, for reasons I've sort of gone into before in another post.

Although, I'd hope that, coming from the UK, you'd be happy to see a Yank like me being reasonable. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
I still disagree about the upgradability factor, I just can't see the current marketplace being so wide for Mac users. In my town here in the Uk there's four pc shops within five minutes walk and one mac. Which is unusual. Usually no mac stores :P

So getting back to Atomic Man's point. The only difference really comes down to style. You can get pretty much every type of software for both. The processing times are pretty much the same on top end systems. At least you wouldn't notice the difference.

I think Macs do a really great job of hiding the insides of the system, and are pretty powerful. They look lovely too. So for graphics work they should be fine. But if you ever want to explore your system further then I'd go with a Pc.

Mike</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're probably absolutely correct about the UK Presence. As I've said, Apple needs to work on that. They really do.

-JEM

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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)

[jemstone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Welshcat:
<B>I personally prefer Allison Mack - but there's a whole thread dedicated to her in the Superman forum, so I'll be quiet now! http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You and me both, 'Cat. Mmmm. Chloe. Yummy geeky Chloe... (Have I mentioned I have a thing for intelligent women with non-typical looks? I do. It's my own personal kryptonite...)

-JEM

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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
(I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.)

[headcasejones]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic Man:
<B>Hi, i know some of you are just curious, some of you are art designers, etc.

The question is:
Is it Mac better in the Graphic Industry?

Some Graphic Designers students i know, told me Mac is only a Myth...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok here is something to consider amongst everything everyone else has posted: On a Mac you can install a Windiws pc emulator(essentially a pc within your mac): on a Windiws pc you can install a program, whose name escapes me at the moment, that lets the pc read mac documents. Now I've worked professionally on both operating systems and despite what anyone says both systems crash about the same amount of the time. I have friends who remain firmly entrenched in the opposing camps. I say become a cross platformer, use both. By the way, one reason macs remain the graphics industry standard is that 99% of print shops run on macs, and a good many charge a fee just to look at a pc document. Hope some of this helps you. I say put a tent in each camp and buy one of each.

[Jedi Knight Pas-Jo D]

They both suck.

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Death To The Cows!
http://www.angelfire.com/darkside/wolverine

[Essex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jedi Knight Pas-Jo Dacle:
<B>They both suck.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You know what sucks? Internet Trolls.

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"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Essex:
<B>
You know what sucks? Internet Trolls.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's an Internet Troll? Is that something that only applies Jedi Knight Pas-Jo Dacle or is that an actual term?

[Essex]

An Internet Troll is a person who posts negatively on message boards without any reason other than to make him or herself feel more important or to cause trouble. Their posts have no valuable opinions or anything to say at all.

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"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[WC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jemstone:
<B> You and me both, 'Cat. Mmmm. Chloe. Yummy geeky Chloe... (Have I mentioned I have a thing for intelligent women with non-typical looks? I do. It's my own personal kryptonite...)

-JEM

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Go here for the response to this:
http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/Forum8/HTML/000165.html


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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[Gun665]

I own a Mac. An iMac. A Blueberry iMac with the cd tray. I own this because my wife wanted a "cute" computer.

It does what I want, when I want. Examples of my work are on the DCG page

Mac or PC? Use what you have and anyone who wants to complain about YOUR computer can bloody well buy you a NEW one!



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Got Coffee?

[Gun665]

Sorry about that last post. I had a root canal earlier in the day and was cranky.

Tone down the cynicism and it still is pretty much my opinion.



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Got Coffee?