Artist requests advanced help

[dperceful]

a couple of advanced technique questions for you advanced photoshop users.

i'm working on this big manip and i am running into a few little snags early on that i want to get cleared up so the image stays the same throughout. here are the things i am having trouble with and seeing if you some of you can point me in the right direction.

photorealism...how do you go about creating that? i can get that to a certain level..but i fall short of the androids, essexs, welshcats, kev_incals, bill t, etc. are you guys just whipping on more layers or are you really fine tuning the lighting on the costume to give it the effect, or am i just not seeing the end results good enough in my mind?

manipping white, or actually lighting it properly. i'm working on captain america's star....with his barrell chest the upper part of the star is well lit, but the lower part is not as well lit. i never can get this part to fit into the rest of the costume...it looks obviously out of place.

lastly is flesh. this manip is being made from scratch...just using a pic as reference. due to the extreme emotion in one particular face, there are some heavy hard lines....problem is when i start burning the facial expression, i really lose the warmth of the flesh and it just gets to extreme to quick. any tips on creating flesh out of a flat grey layer would be helpful as well.

i can send you guys a portion of the manip and show you specifically what i'm talking about. i'm really wanting to get to that next level...i feel i have hit a ceiling in my manips and i just can't seem to get out of this current level. i'm just not seeing the results....therefore i can't reverse the process in my head to figure out how to get there.

thanks in advance.

dan

[This message has been edited by dperceful (edited 08-19-2004).]

[android]

Oh. Send it to me, please. I'm curious. Maybe it's only a smaller problem, gentleman.

harald@graphic-designer.com

[ali786]

well I can't speak for the others or how to do things the proper way because I just experiment with photoshop to see what happens..anyway:

photorealism: thats always tricky..I use a combination of things..poser,photo references,making faces in a mirror...the thing is not to confine yourself too much..if you can cannibalise a few photos together and then use them and it works,then do it...observation is the key I guess,if you're doing a superman manip then look at superman pics from the movie/tv show to get the right lighting and texture..no substitute for real life...

manipping white: if you look at some of Jim Lee's recent Superman art,you'll see that sometimes his body is in shadow but the logo is still bright..so you can break some rules when lighting..or with cap's star,try duplicating the layer,using 'screen' and rubbing out the bits you don't need..I'd have to see it to be more specific tho I guess...

lastly is flesh: instead of burning try altering the saturation or hue...or duplicate the layer and overlay it and experiment with the duplic. (transparency,lighting effects etc) and you can always compensate for the burning by airbrushing over with some less harsh skin colours...and with a flat grey layer a photo reference can be handy to get the right skin colours and tones..basically you have to re-colour the grey pic...

hope that helps.

[Bill Turner]

Send it to me of course. I would love to help you out of the photo-realism. I see everything as if it was a photograph. I intentionally add a little noise or grain to the distant background because it would be there if what you were doing was a photograph of scene. Another trick I do is pick a light source. If it is the moon or a power beam I light it so if I turn the color and contrast on my monitor all the way to black, the first thing you would see is the light source and the second would be the highest reflective areas the light source is reflecting on, the third would be the lightest areas of the shading of the objects or costume. When your done you turn your monitor to black and then hit the +1 on the brightness one click at a time and the areas should become visible one at a time. If you were a photographer on the scene you could put a light meter on the areas and the highes reflected areas would not be as bright as the main light source. It's easy with dodge and burn to make them equal and get away with it but it's not realistic. If the light source is not visible you still need to break the scene down into the degrees of brightness. When you're done use the autocontrast in photoshop and fade it to your taste. When I want to shade a character more on one side or the other I usually outline the half of the character I want darker with the polygonal lasso, then I feather it by a bunch of pixels (depending on how big the image is) then I copy it and paste it on itself. then adjust the brightness and contrast on the new layer. Then you can use a feathered edge eraser tool or dodge and burn to get it to match and then you can also fade the layer. I do this because if you dodge and burn the original layer you can only step backwards so far to undo it if you screw it up. I usually dodge and burn it again after I merge the layers too.

[This message has been edited by Bill Turner (edited 08-19-2004).]

[dperceful]

thanks ali and bill...i'll send you a copy when i get home.

the advice so far is very helpful....when you see the pic you will see the complexity i am dealing with....multiple light sources, perspectives, numerous characters, textures, etc. not trying to whine....i'm just trying to really challenge myself and knock the doors off the DCG with this piece.

dan

[Essex]

I've always had trouble explaining my methods, as it's all usually just trial and error, but if you send me the image as well I'll be happy to take a look and see if I can offer any advice.



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"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[WC]

I've always had trouble explaining my methods, as it's all usually just trial and error, but if you send me the image as well I'll be happy to take a look and see if I can offer any advice.

Couldn't be bothered to think up something original since it's exactly the same with me.




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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[Gun665]

Well, for myself, it's always kind of "What's this do? What's THIS do?" My wife however, has done some really cool effects with a little thing called, "Global Lighting", that should help on Cap's star.

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Got Coffee?

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CoffeeCat665:
<B>Well, for myself, it's always kind of "What's this do? What's THIS do?" My wife however, has done some really cool effects with a little thing called, "Global Lighting", that should help on Cap's star.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

global lighting.....you mean the lighting effects filter? (filter&gt;render&gt;lighting effects) or are you actaully talking about the global lighting check box within the layer styles?

dan

[TRYGONEZ]

dpercful, is it 3D you are working with? I think Coffecat refers to Global Lighting talking in Mental Ray of 3d Software plugin terms. I'm just guessing.

BTW, I'm not too good achieving photorealism but I noticed that when you use the burn and dodge tools you obtain different effects selecting Lights, Midtones and Shadows in the tool menuand have achieved some interesting things mixing them together.

[This message has been edited by TRYGONEZ (edited 08-20-2004).]

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TRYGONEZ:
<B>dpercful, is it 3D you are working with? I think Coffecat refers to Global Lighting talking in Mental Ray of 3d Software plugin terms. I'm just guessing.

BTW, I'm not too good achieving photorealism but I noticed that when you use the burn and dodge tools you obtain different effects selecting Lights, Midtones and Shadows in the tool menuand have achieved some interesting things mixing them together.

[This message has been edited by TRYGONEZ (edited 08-20-2004).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i wish i was using 3d...still having that steep learning curve with Maya.

i think my biggest problem with the burn and dodge tools is i'm just not subtle with it...which i hope to correct.

dan

[WC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dperceful:
<B> i wish i was using 3d...still having that steep learning curve with Maya.

i think my biggest problem with the burn and dodge tools is i'm just not subtle with it...which i hope to correct.

dan</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, i haven't even managed to climb onto the Mayan learning curve. And the trouble with 3D Max is that the curve is too curved that I keep falling off it.

I'd say with the burn and dodge tool, don't set the opacity level too high up - that way you can change the tones more gradually. Also, don't always use the highlight setting as that burns/dodges in more extreme measures. Just use that as a finishing touch over a midtone burn/dodge.




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Meoww! Send in the clowns!