2004 DCG Awards POSTPONED!!!!

[dperceful]

Yes, you read correctly. The awards have been postponed. Due to some extreme selfishness in the voting I am having to work out a new way to do this year's awards. I cannot even use the ballots submitted to have a run off.....there is such an obvious tilt in the existing ballots that it is not representative of the DCG as a whole.

I am consulting with the administrators and several "trusted" artists to remedy this issue. As soon as the issue is resolved I will update all of you.

dan

[Junkyard]

You know, the older I get, the more often I find myself mumbling, "...fraught with complications..."

Personally, I think it's my "nothing's ever simple" curse bleeding out over the web. Sorry guys.

[Pod]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Junkyard:
Personally, I think it's my "nothing's ever simple" curse bleeding out over the web. Sorry guys.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

whoa u have that too?

[Biohaz_Daddy]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Junkyard:
<B>You know, the older I get, the more often I find myself mumbling, "...fraught with complications..."

Personally, I think it's my "nothing's ever simple" curse bleeding out over the web. Sorry guys.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are a complicated guy Junkster... Oh wait, I was thinking of somebody else. Anywho, I don't think we can lay all the blame at your feet. There is just too much, it would have to go up to your knees at least.

[Shaylinn]

Heyla Dan,

I'm sorry to hear that there are problems with the awards.

If there is anything I can do to help let me know.

[Winterhawk]

If I can be of assistance let me know.

This does raise a couple of questions.
Does everyone have to vote again??
Or just the people that voted for themselves??

I do have an Idea; you could limit the number of self-votes. For example you could simply make a rule that you cannot vote for yourself in more than two categories on your ballot.

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I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.

[Bill Turner]

You could count the votes so far and use that as the list of nominees. Get the top five vote getters in each category and treat that as the DCG Award Nominees. Then we all revote but not in categories we are nominated in.

[dperceful]

oops.

[This message has been edited by dperceful (edited 11-07-2004).]

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Turner:
You could count the votes so far and use that as the list of nominees. Get the top five vote getters in each category and treat that as the DCG Award Nominees. Then we all revote but not in categories we are nominated in.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that wouldn't work, trust me.

let me put it the nicest way i can.

if i used the casted votes as nominees....you would have stick figure artists up for best artist. i am not joking. if i had the self-voters taken out of the voting in select categories, i would also remove most of the voters.

let me burst your bubbles.....there are not that many people voting. i won't say numbers....but it is not representative of the DCG as a whole. example, what if only 100,000 New Yorkers voted for the presidential election in the U.S., and that was it? that is not a fair representation of the U.S., apply the same model to the DCG.

i am currently trying to fix the situation. all of the casted votes are being taken into consideration. as soon as i get it worked out...i will post.

dan

[This message has been edited by dperceful (edited 11-07-2004).]

[Jedi Knight Pas-Jo D]

Ok, I'll say it right now... Oops...sorry...no really...sorry. I say we limit self votes to two or 3 catigories and do a revote.

------------------
------------
"Don't make me sic my targe on you!" --Jonathan Passow
Death To The Cows!
http://www.mulletman.org

[kev_incal]

I was gonna vote today - should I still do so?

[Essex]

Dan is taking care of the situation very well. While I'm sure he appreciates all the suggestions, I'm afraid he doesn't need them now.

The solution Dan is working on will make the entire process run much more smoothly and the awards will certainly be something we will all enjoy.

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"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kev_incal:
I was gonna vote today - should I still do so?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

save it. another vote will take place a little down the road.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Essex:
The solution Dan is working on will make the entire process run much more smoothly and the awards will certainly be something we will all enjoy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks Essex. again, i'm not trying to exclude anyone from this process...i'm just having to correct some serious problems with the system. and no, it would not be solved if everyone did not vote for themselves. it worked great last year....this year, it's another year, another story. trust me when i say, it will all work out for the best.

dan

[Junkyard]

But just for good mesure, let's all knock on wood and make sure not to spill salt, hmm?

[WC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dperceful:
<B> ...no, it would not be solved if everyone did not vote for themselves. it worked great last year....this year, it's another year, another story. trust me when i say, it will all work out for the best.

dan</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What would you say are the key differences between this year and last year? Different people? Or a different mentality? Or some other things? Has it become like the Oscars where it has become, in recent years, more of a campaign to win the award than simply being rewarded for one's efforts? I sincerely hope not, especially this early.

BTW, I haven't even gotten round to voting yet or even looking at the various potential entries. I guess there's no hurry just yet since everything's up in the air.


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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Welshcat:
<B> What would you say are the key differences between this year and last year? Different people? Or a different mentality? Or some other things? Has it become like the Oscars where it has become, in recent years, more of a campaign to win the award than simply being rewarded for one's efforts? I sincerely hope not, especially this early.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i would say a different mentatlity. this year it felt like there was no community in the votes. people would rather recognize their work than another artists. while in some cases this made sense, in others....it was just selfish.

however the new process i believe will make a better awards this year.

dan

[Kevin Newburn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kev_incal:
I was gonna vote today - should I still do so?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also was going to vote today. I'll just save my ballot and then do whatever I'm told later ; )

[dperceful]

The awards are being revamped. The process has been overhauled and I believe for the better. We are moving to a system much like the Academy Awards. A small group of respected and trusted artists are compiling a list of nominees for each category. Each panel member will submit a list of their choices, and assign points to each choice. The 5 artists/images with the most points in their respective category will move on as nominees. This list of nominees will be what YOU vote on. I cannot give you an exact date of when the nominees will be posted, as these panel members are having to look thru roughly 150 pages of images and on short notice. You will still get the one week voting period. I am aware Thanksgiving is coming up, the voting period WILL NOT happen on that week. As soon as the list is compiled I will make it known in an obvious thread.

[TazmanC]

I Bet it was this guy named Chad who caused all the problems with the voting for the awards. After all the fact he was hanging himself caused a lot of problems in the 2000 election so I am sure it was him. That or Florida.

[Kevin Newburn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dperceful:
The awards are being revamped. The process has been overhauled and I believe for the better. We are moving to a system much like the Academy Awards. A small group of respected and trusted artists are compiling a list of nominees for each category.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sounds like a good idea, it also doesn't kill the nomination thread either. nothing wrong with pointing out what you feel is your best work to the selection commitee. now if you can just let us know who they are I can start to grease some palms....

... that doesn't sound right

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin Newburn:
<B> now if you can just let us know who they are I can start to grease some palms....

... that doesn't sound right
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry....those people will remain anonymous. it's easier and simpler for me to be the focal point of anger. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

it only sounds weird because we are not sure what your greasing your palms with. no wait...that sounds even worse.

[B]

By all means continue on with the blatant double entendres, gentlemen...

Oh, and Kev, you can always send your "donations" to Dan. I am supremely confident that he will make certain they have the appropriate effect on the nominations. I have Mr. Perceful's personal guarantee to this effect. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif

[ali786]

hey dperceful, if you want help email me...

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ali786:
hey dperceful, if you want help email me...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks ali.....i have the crew in place for this year, and don't want to add as it would delay things further. i've got your name though....thanks for offering to help.

dan

[Amy Karas]

Oh, goodness! This sounds as if the awards have been quite the burden for you, Dan. It makes me quite peeved at whoever messed them up. Now saying that, I don't think it was my ballot since neither did I vote for myself nor did I vote for stick figures. In fact, I think my ballot was quite nice and very DCG representative. Now Dan, what happens to the original ballots? Are they being thrown out?

[MilleniumBum]

i wasn't able to vote because i was preoccupied. i thought the unspoken rule of not voting for oneself was in effect. oh well. let's hope the awards turn out ok. you've got my support dan.

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"Get crazy with the Cheez Whiz!"

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Amy Karas:
Now Dan, what happens to the original ballots? Are they being thrown out? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

they are essentially thrown out, as we are moving to a nominee process. however the ballots that were casted are very representative of what the nominees appear to be, with the exception of the stick figure and color change ballots. so do not feel that your voting and searching were in vain, as part of the nominee panel i have weighed those ballots in my list of nominees.

incidentally the nominees might be done by saturday or sunday so i might have them posted by sunday night. i am not 100% sure about this....so i am not putting this in stone (bolded in a new thread). anyways, thats a little update for everyone.

dan


[This message has been edited by dperceful (edited 11-10-2004).]

[WC]

I'm passing a little message along from former Senator, Al Gore. He's demanding a recount, and if necessary, will contest the results in the Supreme Court (or Forum 9 if that's not available) using all the legal counsel at his disposal.


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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[squedge]

There is no Forum 9.

[Pod]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by squedge:
There is no Forum 9.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no wonder the last post was in august.

[Zac]

Forum 9? What's that? http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/wink.gif

Oh, and Dan, in light of all this, has the image consideration date been extended, or did it still end when it was said to be ended, and all images posted now will be considered for next year?

[B]

Y'know, what with all these people who hadn't gotten a chance to vote yet, I can see one obvious benefit of a system of set nominations... Hopefully, with only five nominees for each category -- rather than the whole gallery! -- more people will have the time to look through all the nominees and vote...

[B]

Oh, and what's this Forum-9-Urban-legend-complete-and-utter-myth-that-absolutely-positively-doesn't-exist thing, anyway?

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zac:
<B>Forum 9? What's that? http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/wink.gif

Oh, and Dan, in light of all this, has the image consideration date been extended, or did it still end when it was said to be ended, and all images posted now will be considered for next year?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the image consideration stays the same. the images being posted now are up for next years awards.

dan

[Jedi Knight Pas-Jo D]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B:
Oh, and what's this Forum-9-Urban-legend-complete-and-utter-myth-that-absolutely-positively-doesn't-exist thing, anyway?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no Forum 9...wait... :: wakes up :: YES TEHRE IS A FORUM 9! And I think it's run by the cows! How could I have been fooled.

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------------
"Don't make me sic my targe on you!" --Jonathan Passow
Death To The Cows!
http://www.mulletman.org

[B]

Everything is run by the cows, Jon... Or by the squirrels. Or the capybaras.

I thought we'd sorted all that out already?

[Pod]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B:
<B>Everything is run by the cows, Jon... Or by the squirrels. Or the capybaras.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

dont forget mice...they're so fast on those running things it can light up a whole city.

[Zac]

Can someone show me where Dan said this topic is for discussing Forum 9? I didn't think so.

[Ed Hopkins]

Voting for one's own work should be banned, but when you tell people they can do it, they will. It's not selfish, it's smart.

Who wants to lose by one vote because they didn't vote for themselves? Don't you remember when Bart lost to Martin?

I still think images that were not in the "FYC" thread should be excluded. Why give awards to people who aren't part of the community and probably won't even care. (I doubt DAVID GUIVANT has ever been to this site.)

[Zac]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ed Hopkins:
<B>Voting for one's own work should be banned, but when you tell people they can do it, they will. It's not selfish, it's smart.

Who wants to lose by one vote because they didn't vote for themselves? Don't you remember when Bart lost to Martin?

I still think images that were not in the "FYC" thread should be excluded. Why give awards to people who aren't part of the community and probably won't even care. (I doubt DAVID GUIVANT has ever been to this site.)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think it should be banned, it's a good idea. But like you said, some people will take advantage of the system. It's not really that it needs to be banned, it's just a flaw in the way this works and so it's being fixed.

And I really don't like the idea of only images in the FYC thread should be considered. Some people just don't like to self-promote. Take Essex for example. He did that amazing Mr. Sinister piece, which is deserving of several awards, but not once did he mention it in the FYC thread.

[Junkyard]

Well, if there's one or two you REALLY want to win, and have a good chance at winning, and you vote for it, it's smart. But if you vote for yourself in each catagory, even if you KNOW it's not the best of said catagory, then it's little better than an empty ballot. If more than two people do this, it starts getting ridiculous.

------------------
Junkyard, Proud Defender of This Nation's Garbage Dumps.

Funniest thing I've ever said unintentionally:
"Prosecutors will be violated."

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ed Hopkins:
<B>Voting for one's own work should be banned, but when you tell people they can do it, they will. It's not selfish, it's smart.

Who wants to lose by one vote because they didn't vote for themselves? Don't you remember when Bart lost to Martin?

I still think images that were not in the "FYC" thread should be excluded. Why give awards to people who aren't part of the community and probably won't even care. (I doubt DAVID GUIVANT has ever been to this site.)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i let people vote for themselves because i compared it to the presidential elections. they can vote for themselves...so i figured why not. however, i thought that most people would not. the first year that was the case...this year.....well it was just ridiculous. there was no since of community in the voting, it was very selfish. i created the awards to recognize other artists.....not for artists to pat themselves on the back. however...some saw this year's voting as a way to give them that pat on the back they feel they deserved. okay, maybe your image is the best in that category....but why vote for it...let it win on it's own merits. i could go on....but i won't.

excluding images outside the FYC thread...c'mon. Ed...when was the last time you posted other than in that thread? I know your an active member...artwise and tutorial wise....but that's making these awards something i don't want...an exclusive club.

anyways...the nominees are almost done. i think everyone should be happy with them...of course i could be wrong.

dan

[Zac]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dperceful:
anyways...the nominees are almost done. i think everyone should be happy with them...of course i could be wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If people don't like it, thats just too bad. We had a chance to do it the original way and people blew it. Little Timmy can't cut his vegetables without hurting himself, so mommy has to do it for him.

[dperceful]

The nominees list is done. I am having the "panel" look it over and make sure it's cool with them. i hope to post them Sunday night.

[Junkyard]

WOO!

(Junkyard's shortest post.)
(Oh, damn! Nevermind.)

[B]

Cool! Now we find out if the bribes worked.

... uh, not that there were any bribes. Nosireebob. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif

[Ed Hopkins]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zac:
If people don't like it, thats just too bad. We had a chance to do it the original way and people blew it. Little Timmy can't cut his vegetables without hurting himself, so mommy has to do it for him.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most... condescending... post... iver.

Let's remember a few things: Art is subjective, just because you think someone's work is lousy, doesn't mean they have to agree.

When people act humble about their work, it is an ACT. People post art because they think it is awesome. Anyone who posts and says, "I know this is crap but I thought you'd all like to see it." is lying or a moron or enjoys inflicting crap on people. If you don't even like your own art, it shouldn't be posted and it certainly doesn't deserve an award.

Since so few people vote in this contest there is real incentive to vote for oneself. Maybe we could limit people to one self-vote or require everyone to pick two different pieces by two different artists for every category. Any thing but this panel of "trusted artists." Will they be allowed to vote for themselves? Are they the same people who pick the front page?

Telling people to vote for themselves and then calling them selfish babies when they do is not a good way to build a sense of community either.

[Juvenilemike]

Hey all, sorry I've been absent, just got a lot of work.

Ed, there's a difference between thinking an image is *your* best, and thinking it's *the* best. The former is constrained by your skills at the time, whereas the latter puts you in the running with everyone. Most people here (especially Zac and Bill) will only submit images that they think they can not further improve in any way shape or form. Unless it's their best, it's not getting in.

But that doesn't mean it's better than others. My best work is my Genisis picture, but there's better work in the gallery by Android, Essex, Bill, Zac, MB, Kev... the list goes on. The point of this award is to celebrate the best the DCG has to offer. There's no real prize. I really don't understand why anyone would want to vote for themselves just so they can win. It would be such an empty win.

Mike
~who think's D is just great~

[Biohaz_Daddy]

I don't understand what all the fuss is. We were told we could vote for ourselves. Okay so that didn't work out. Now there is a new process that will get us to some awards. Whether it's a free for all voting process or a one with nominations it's the end result that matters... Artists are recognized for their work.

[Zac]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Biohaz_Daddy:
I don't understand what all the fuss is. We were told we could vote for ourselves. Okay so that didn't work out. Now there is a new process that will get us to some awards. Whether it's a free for all voting process or a one with nominations it's the end result that matters... Artists are recognized for their work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. What I was getting at in my "Timmy can't cut his veggies" post is that many people were given an oppurtunity to actually vote for the images they feel are the most outstanding in each category, and instead they just got selfish with it. There's nothign wrong with voting for yourself if you feel your work was the best in a few categories, but filling out a ballot that only has your submissions on it IS acting like a selfish baby.

But hey, let's drop it. Dan's idea for this year's is a really good one and I think, in the end, it will work out better than the original plan had worked.

[dperceful]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ed Hopkins:
<B>Any thing but this panel of "trusted artists." Will they be allowed to vote for themselves? Are they the same people who pick the front page?

Telling people to vote for themselves and then calling them selfish babies when they do is not a good way to build a sense of community either.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ahem.

i'll take the second part first.

again, first year....you could vote for yourself....and most people did not. second year, same rules....different results. why is that? i wish i knew. i'm not trying to call anyone a selfish baby (i don't think the post was directed at me...but i did use the word selfish a lot), but there was plenty of selfishness to go around this year. let's say i let the awards happen like the ballots read this year.

Best Artist...a color change artist
Best Overall...a cut and paste with some color change
Best Marvel...another color change...and not a good one either.

i barely gave any of those images a sentence in a UIR.....and now they are the best of the best? i'm sorry....but i had to fix it, otherwise the community we have would have been misrepresented. Ed, you voting for yourself...i can understand that...you do great work....but when a stick figure is voted on for best overall....there's a problem, and i need to fix it.

now the first part.
well Ed, are you still going to vote for yourself? http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif

<B>2004 DCG Awards Nominee for
Best Marvel Image
Fantastic Four by Zac
Sinister’s Lab by Essex
Christina Aguiliera is Spiral by Matrixblur
Requiem for Psylocke by MilleniumBum
Jocasta by Ed Hopkins</B>

the panel is nameless...i'll take the s**t so they don't have to. it's not made up of front page pickers (incidentally who picks the front page...i thought Essex just did it based on what he thought worked out well), admins, moderators, etc. it's made up of artists and me as an oversight. they all voted for what they believed was the best in each category and everyone got to see that vote. yes, some artists voted for themselves....but ironically...the other artists also voted for that same artist in that category. when they voted for themselves...i looked it over, and it made sense...there was nothing wrong with the vote. and yes, now that those panel members are clear of the awards process for this year....they can vote for themselves....but honestly, they have that right. every image in it's respective category deserves the right to win in my opinion, and any artist who votes for themselves is justified.

do you want me to keep yammering or do you want me to post the list of nominees?

dan