Man's Animal Nature

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

I have finally realized what has been bugging me the past few years. Our (American) society has drifted towards exploring the animal side of human nature rather than the higher or divine side of ourselves. This tendency is illustrated by things like extreme sports, reality television, the sophomoric humor of many of our TV shows, as well as many other examples. We've been paying way too much attention to things like sex (see Viagra commercials) and bodily functions.

In my opinion we are falling away from those aspects of our nature that we really should focus upon (like kindness, compassion, honor, integrity et al) and focusing way too much on the lower aspects of our nature.

I can't put it any other way.

[kah]

I agree. However, watching American Inventor last night reminded me that there are still some great people out there, with dreams and ideas that keep us one step above the animals.

[sickness]

Here's my problem with the idea of highmindedness being the ideal state: concentration of too much time and energy in a single area leads to a very narrow experience. I used to be very much about intellectual pursuits. I still enjoy them and still engage in them but this is only a part of who I am now. I used to let it interfere with doing anything else. This resulted in fewer friends, poorer health and total lack of success with women. My intelligence and knowledge were unquestionable but my social skills were lacking. Social skills are ultimately what makes the world go round.

What we really need is a balanced approach. I start my day at 6:30 every morning to get to the gym by 7:00. I usually finish lifting around 8:00 and finish cardio around 8:30. Then I go home, eat, ****, shower, etc., and go to work as a scientist for a company working in the homeland security sector. At work, I collect data, process it, perform maintainence on the systems I work with, provide design input whenever it seems useful and generally help out wherever I can.

Not only am I more physically fit but I'm more social and have actually found a number of people to discuss my intellectual pursuits with both from work and the gym.

In short, there's nothing wrong with some low-brow humor or mindless entertainment, as long as you don't let it control you. And it's the same on the flipside. Wonder about the world, life, death, the universe, whatever you want, just make sure it's not all you do or the thing you hold in highest regard.

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

Here's my problem with the idea of highmindedness being the ideal state: concentration of too much time and energy in a single area leads to a very narrow experience. I used to be very much about intellectual pursuits. I still enjoy them and still engage in them but this is only a part of who I am now. I used to let it interfere with doing anything else. This resulted in fewer friends, poorer health and total lack of success with women. My intelligence and knowledge were unquestionable but my social skills were lacking. Social skills are ultimately what makes the world go round.

What we really need is a balanced approach. I start my day at 6:30 every morning to get to the gym by 7:00. I usually finish lifting around 8:00 and finish cardio around 8:30. Then I go home, eat, ****, shower, etc., and go to work as a scientist for a company working in the homeland security sector. At work, I collect data, process it, perform maintainence on the systems I work with, provide design input whenever it seems useful and generally help out wherever I can.

Not only am I more physically fit but I'm more social and have actually found a number of people to discuss my intellectual pursuits with both from work and the gym.

In short, there's nothing wrong with some low-brow humor or mindless entertainment, as long as you don't let it control you. And it's the same on the flipside. Wonder about the world, life, death, the universe, whatever you want, just make sure it's not all you do or the thing you hold in highest regard.

You're making logical sense. My concern is that if too much emphasis is placed on superficial things, not enough gets put into the important things. I just wonder why so many TV commercials and dialogue in TV shows seems mean spirited and violent to me. The suffering of people is never funny, or at least it isn't most of the time, and I see too many examples on TV of people just being mean to each other for no good reason.

We, as a society, are allowing certain ideas to gain a foothold in our collective consciousness that I think aren't good ideas. There is a line that by crossing diminishes our integrity and honor, and we need to be mindful of that.

[Space Tycoon]

Our (American) society has drifted towards exploring the animal side of human nature rather than the higher or divine side of ourselves....

In my opinion we are falling away from those aspects of our nature that we really should focus upon (like kindness, compassion, honor, integrity et al) and focusing way too much on the lower aspects of our nature.

I can't put it any other way.


You're assuming that our animal nature is something "low" to be ashamed of. Many animals have qualities that I consider quite noble and honourable; namely, survival and caring for their offspring. If anything, we've adopted a lifestyle which is too far removed from the animals-- we devote far too much time to things like leisure, fashion, popular culture, pleasure-seeking, sensuality and other such trivialities. As a result North Americans (not to mention others) have become weak, flaacid and dependent. As opposed to strong, self-reliant, and basically honest, like most animals.

I find myself almost hoping humans become extinct to make way for the "lower orders."



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[Asonokirk V 2.0]

You're assuming that our animal nature is something "low" to be ashamed of. Many animals have qualities that I consider quite noble and honourable; namely, survival and caring for their offspring. If anything, we've adopted a lifestyle which is too far removed from the animals-- we devote far too much time to things like leisure, fashion, popular culture, pleasure-seeking, sensuality and other such trivialities. As a result North Americans (not to mention others) have become weak, flaacid and dependent. As opposed to strong, self-reliant, and basically honest, like most animals.

I find myself almost hoping humans become extinct to make way for the "lower orders."



.

What? "almost hoping humans become extinct . . . "

Forgive me, but I find no rationality* in a statement like that. I think there might be some guilt we each feel about being human, given the bad things we are capable of doing, but it is certainly our right within this universe to put ourselves ahead of other life forms. It is the right of all life to seek survival, and when that right to survival competes with the right to survival of another species, then that life which is more capable of surviving subjugates or eliminates its competition.

Homo Sapiens have proven to be the dominate higher life form on this planet through our growth, perpetuation, and ability to subjugate all other life here, with the exception of viruses and some others that have learned to co-exist with us without being diminished (think of pigeons).

We have earned the right to feel and be superior to other life here and it is our duty to continue to try and grow and evolve.

*-(However, there is one nugget of an idea present within your implication that is important. What if we've reached the end of our evolutionary path, the one that has enabled us to become dominant? At that point would it be our duty to step aside for a higher form of life?

[Intelligent_Design]

What if we've reached the end of our evolutionary path, the one that has enabled us to become dominant? At that point would it be our duty to step aside for a higher form of life?

I think there are some of us that are more evolved than others. The prisions are filled with the lesser evolved humans.

[Space Tycoon]

I think there are some of us that are more evolved than others. The prisions are filled with the lesser evolved humans.
So is Congress and Parliament. :smirks:




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[Space Tycoon]

What? "almost hoping humans become extinct . . . "

Forgive me, but I find no rationality* in a statement like that. I think there might be some guilt we each feel about being human, given the bad things we are capable of doing, but it is certainly our right within this universe to put ourselves ahead of other life forms. It is the right of all life to seek survival, and when that right to survival competes with the right to survival of another species, then that life which is more capable of surviving subjugates or eliminates its competition.

Homo Sapiens have proven to be the dominate higher life form on this planet through our growth, perpetuation, and ability to subjugate all other life here, with the exception of viruses and some others that have learned to co-exist with us without being diminished (think of pigeons).

We have earned the right to feel and be superior to other life here and it is our duty to continue to try and grow and evolve.

I'm just disgusted with the direction we've gone. I don't see much progress there. I see ignorance, complacency, and self-indulgence, coupled with a blatantly arrogant superiority complex.



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[Asonokirk V 2.0]

I'm just disgusted with the direction we've gone. I don't see much progress there. I see ignorance, complacency, and self-indulgence, coupled with a blatantly arrogant superiority complex.



.

But look back. Think of where we were just 100 years ago. Then 200, then 300 etc. The direction we've gone in would appear to be, albeit slowly, enlightenment, at least slowly in the sense that it would be nice if we would become better at peaceful co-existence than we are a bit faster. You think humanity has an arrogant superiority complex now, think of the 19th century.

[kah]

I think there are some of us that are more evolved than others. The prisions are filled with the lesser evolved humans.

...and harmless recreational pot-smokers. But that is another topic altogether.

[Space Tycoon]

In a lot of ways we're worse off than we were a hundred years ago. People were tougher back then. There was a definite set of principles based on centuries-old, time-honoured traditions; as opposed to latching on to the popular cause of the week, which seems to pretty much define our modern concept of values.




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[American]

We, as a society, are allowing certain ideas to gain a foothold in our collective consciousness that I think aren't good ideas. There is a line that by crossing diminishes our integrity and honor, and we need to be mindful of that.
Wow. That's a mouthful, but true

[Kaeos]

The direction we've gone in would appear to be, albeit slowly, enlightenment, at least slowly in the sense that it would be nice if we would become better at peaceful co-existence than we are a bit faster. You think humanity has an arrogant superiority complex now, think of the 19th century.

I can't help but look at the whole of humanity in a broader sense and consider that in a miniscule span of time - a mere 40,000 years which is nothing more than an eye blink on a cosmic or even global scale - we've gone from barely sentient animals to this supposed state of eveloved sensibilities.

And I make that statement about out sense of ourselves to include the last 300, hell even the last 500 years. All of the sudden we begin to make all these marvelous leaps forward culturally, technologically, you name it. And yet it all ultimately boils down to people breaking down under the stress of this grand sociolgical mess we've created. When that breakdown occurs, you get the type of problems that Kirk is referring to.

Yet the population of humans on the globe has exploded - literally over the last 100 years. More than 6,000,000,000 humans? Most of them (not all) running around "playing house" trying to control society, control the planet. Control each other by enacting and encforcing their own sets of standards for behavior and conduct. Folks lie Traz and myself (4 traz-ters and soon to be 5 Kae-kids respectively) of course don't really help that problem, but hey, we just work within the world we are given:D

Personally, I think Agents Smith's assesment of the situation was apt:

"Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with th surrounding environment and you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply until every natural resource is consumed, and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follow the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague"

Consider that statement in the contaxt of this thread and the discussion about sociologic norms and abberations. In the final analysis, does our acceptance or abhornace of certain cultural behanviors really make any difference. More - can you honestly expeect that the removal of such behaviors and attitudes you consider detremental prevent us from denying our very nature?

Or is the point to try and make the world as tollerable as you can while your here. When your gone, it's the next generationb's problem.

Hmm....

[kah]

It really all boils down to this... Every few centuries, humans seem to make amazing advances in technology, science, culture, etc. Then, a dark age follows. Look at the civilizations of Egypt, Greece, Italy, China, Byzantium, Peru, the Yucatan Peninsula, and on and on. Look at how developed technologically and socially these empires were, then look at how much they regressed after the fall. Do you think we will not undergo the same in the next few centuries? Let's just say the bird flu mutates, and kills a hundred million people. What if one of those people was carrying the idea for the next great technological advance? What if the worlds leaders were all struck down? What if a large number of doctors, or priests, or mothers were all struck down? The Black Plague (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death) killed off a third of Europeans. Granted, they lived in closer quarters than we do, and in less sanitary conditions, but think of all the people you have contact with every day. How many people do they have contact with? How long would it take before one of those people gets on a plane and has contact with 100 other people who have contact with another 10 people each? If our "democracy" keeps up the way it's been going, how long until people stop putting up with it? How long before there is another civil war? How long before apathy takes over completetly and we are run by a dictatorship? There are so many possibilites, who knows where we will be in 200 or 1000 years. Or 20, for that matter. Have you seen kids today? Crap on a cracker!

Anyways, there I go again... I lost track of myself, and probably the topic at hand. I'm going to go lay down now...

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

I can't help but look at the whole of humanity in a broader sense and consider that in a miniscule span of time - a mere 40,000 years which is nothing more than an eye blink on a cosmic or even global scale - we've gone from barely sentient animals to this supposed state of eveloved sensibilities.

And I make that statement about out sense of ourselves to include the last 300, hell even the last 500 years. All of the sudden we begin to make all these marvelous leaps forward culturally, technologically, you name it. And yet it all ultimately boils down to people breaking down under the stress of this grand sociolgical mess we've created. When that breakdown occurs, you get the type of problems that Kirk is referring to.

Yet the population of humans on the globe has exploded - literally over the last 100 years. More than 6,000,000,000 humans? Most of them (not all) running around "playing house" trying to control society, control the planet. Control each other by enacting and encforcing their own sets of standards for behavior and conduct. Folks lie Traz and myself (4 traz-ters and soon to be 5 Kae-kids respectively) of course don't really help that problem, but hey, we just work within the world we are given:D

Personally, I think Agents Smith's assesment of the situation was apt:

"Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with th surrounding environment and you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply until every natural resource is consumed, and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follow the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague"

Consider that statement in the contaxt of this thread and the discussion about sociologic norms and abberations. In the final analysis, does our acceptance or abhornace of certain cultural behanviors really make any difference. More - can you honestly expeect that the removal of such behaviors and attitudes you consider detremental prevent us from denying our very nature?

Or is the point to try and make the world as tollerable as you can while your here. When your gone, it's the next generationb's problem.

Hmm....

THIS ARTICLE (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060319/ap_on_sc/space_tourism) is a perfect example of people striving beyond our animal natures. It is also a perfect example of what we are capable of accomplishing.

My most profound belief, one that lies at the core of my being and something I would defend to the death, is that it is my duty to try and make sense out of my existence. The only thing I've been able to achieve is that meaning is entirely subjective. I MAKE my life into what I want it to be, and in so doing I can control my own environment to some extent. I choose to apply myself to the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake. I choose to want everyone I know, and everyone I don't know, happiness, health and well being. I choose to wish that by reaching beyond our animal natures a form of greatness awaits our grasp.

There is nothing wrong with the fact that we do have animal natures as mammals. What is wrong is paying less attention to more important ideals for the sake of appeasing our instinctual sides.

[Intelligent_Design]

THIS ARTICLE (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060319/ap_on_sc/space_tourism) is a perfect example of people striving beyond our animal natures. It is also a perfect example of what we are capable of accomplishing.

My most profound belief, one that lies at the core of my being and something I would defend to the death, is that it is my duty to try and make sense out of my existence. The only thing I've been able to achieve is that meaning is entirely subjective. I MAKE my life into what I want it to be, and in so doing I can control my own environment to some extent. I choose to apply myself to the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake. I choose to want everyone I know, and everyone I don't know, happiness, health and well being. I choose to wish that by reaching beyond our animal natures a form of greatness awaits our grasp.

There is nothing wrong with the fact that we do have animal natures as mammals. What is wrong is paying less attention to more important ideals for the sake of appeasing our instinctual sides.I think there is a widening rift between the less evolved the evolved and the more evolved happening in the human race now.

[Senormac]

I have a problem with a certain term or idea that keeps coming up in alot of the posts above.....and that is the term...."we"....or ...."us"...or "man".....

There is a HUGE spectrum of human life on this planet.....as broad as the east is from the west. To say that we have become so "animalistic".....or so "corrupt'........or so "greedy".......well, who is we? If you are lumping all of man into one group because of whatever actions you have witnessed in pop culture.....then I think that is a faulty measure. I think you have been forced to percieve "mankind" in a certain light.....because of the input you allow yourself to be subject to......

The movies you watch.....
the news broadcasts you listen to.....
the games you play.....
the television shows you see and hear.....
the songs you listen to.....

For one thing.....its just way too much. Its too much input......at least in north america . I think it would do people good to just un-plug....or at least cut back CONSIDERABLY......and let your thoughts and life flow in a more natural way. You'd be surprised (after you get through the detox stage)....at how your thinking and outlook will change.

My two cents

[Bill_the_Pony]

If an alien visitor were to watch this video, and judge the entire human race by it.....

we'd better run for cover. :(

Kevin Federline is a trailer trash cretin (http://youtube.com/watch?v=CRGoo_k03Tw) :lol:

[Asonokirk V 2.0]

I have a problem with a certain term or idea that keeps coming up in alot of the posts above.....and that is the term...."we"....or ...."us"...or "man".....

There is a HUGE spectrum of human life on this planet.....as broad as the east is from the west. To say that we have become so "animalistic".....or so "corrupt'........or so "greedy".......well, who is we? If you are lumping all of man into one group because of whatever actions you have witnessed in pop culture.....then I think that is a faulty measure. I think you have been forced to percieve "mankind" in a certain light.....because of the input you allow yourself to be subject to......

The movies you watch.....
the news broadcasts you listen to.....
the games you play.....
the television shows you see and hear.....
the songs you listen to.....

For one thing.....its just way too much. Its too much input......at least in north america . I think it would do people good to just un-plug....or at least cut back CONSIDERABLY......and let your thoughts and life flow in a more natural way. You'd be surprised (after you get through the detox stage)....at how your thinking and outlook will change.

My two cents

I'm talking only about my culture in the U.S. I can't speak for anywhere else. However, having traveled to foreign countries, including the Middle East, I can offer the following perspective: I look at our culture as much more advanced, in terms of what happens to people when they start having such material success that their minds begin to drift towards those dark and forbidden ideas and concepts that morality and the day to day need for self preservation has kept at bay up to now.

In other words it is a natural tendency for groups of people to become "decadent" when they no longer have to really struggle to survive.

What you say about unplugging makes much sense, and I believe it is sage advice.