Superman's Rogue Gallery

[FireStormTrooper]

If/when there is another Superman movie franshise, how should the various Superman villains be portrayed onscreen (and by whom). Superman actually has good rogues gallery, but for whatever reason, it's just nowhere near as inspiring or intimidating as Batman's. Lex Luthor is just about the only villain who constantly lives up to his potential. Here's how I would like the villians show up in any future Superman movie.

LEX LUTHOR ... President of the United States. Completely untouchable. Has the intelligence and cunning of Batman. Played by Pete Postelthwaite (The Lost World)

BRAINIAC ... More like the B13 version. Technology run amok. Cold, logical and relentless. Mostly CGI, voice and face of Gary Oldman (Dracula)

DARKSEID ... Evil incarnate. More powerful than Superman. An alien god fearfully worshipped by billions. Mostly CGI, voice and face of James Earl Jones (Star Wars)

METALLO ... A super-powered cyborg with a sarcastic side. Made of nigh-indestructible metal with heart of Kryptonite. Only money matters to him. Played by Triple H (WWE)

BLAZE ... The Devil Herself. Always trying to corrupt Superman. Powers are almost unlimited. Extremely seductive. Played by Demi Moore (Charlie's Angel's II)

[ModeMan]

Luthor- Founder, President, and CEO of Lexcorp. Cool, cunning, collective businessman involved in much illeagal activity ranging from money laundering and other white-collar crime, to illeagal weapons sales, to conspiracy and terrorism.
Played by Bruce Willis

Brainiac- What FireStormTrooper said.

General Zod- Dignified, idealistic, arrogant, megalomaniacal, powermonger. Much the same as Luthor only with less reliability on subterfuge and much on his physical strength and combat experience.
Played by Viggo Mortensen or Clive Owen

That's all I've got.

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ModeMan:
<B>Luthor- Founder, President, and CEO of Lexcorp. Cool, cunning, collective businessman involved in much illeagal activity ranging from money laundering and other white-collar crime, to illeagal weapons sales, to conspiracy and terrorism.
Played by Bruce Willis
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just saw him in an interview yesterday and the same thing crossed my mind. I'd love to see Bruce Willis as Lex Luthor.

[beppo_the_super_chim]

luthor - always behind something. not president yet but still the most powerful man in metropolis... until superman that is. exactly how he is in superman for all seasons and man of steel miniseries. played by kevin spacey (pete potlewaith is way to scrawny for the part, he is a great actor though and i think willis is a bit to bulky.)
appears in every film, never defeated

Metallo - wants revenge on superman and luthor for robbing him of his human body and leaving him for dead. Rebuilt by Dr. Schwarts (I think that was his name) the only person to know superman's existance. heart of kryptonite
voiced by jeremy irons or timothy

brainiac - I'm not sure hpw he could be portrayed, maybe trying to drain superman of all the solar energy he has aquired... or something. Luthor should try to cut a deal with him to save himself and get himsefl mroe power in exchange for superman's life.
voiced by kelsey grammer

[Frostbite]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by beppo_the_super_chimp:
the only person to know superman's existance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What???

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by beppo_the_super_chimp:
<B> i think willis is a bit to bulky.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think you've seen Bruce Willis recently, and he's never been "bulky". He just stays likes to stay in shape. Besides, the older Lex gets, the heavier he becomes.

I totally agree with you on Kelsey Grammar for the voice of Brainiac. That would be my #1 choice. My second choice would be the guy who voiced Ra's Al Ghul for Batman TAS.

[beppo_the_super_chim]

oops... I meant secret identity not existance... silly me

I didnt mean willis was fat, I meant he is too fit for the role. Luthor has never not been fat and i really thinmk he would benefit from a shorter and less 'action hero' looking actor play him, which is why i really favor spacey.

i have nothing against willis, I really like him as an actor but i just never envisioned him as luthor, superman maybe a decade ago but never luthor... then again i never invisioned MCD as kingpin so it could work out ok but... I would prefer a more pre clone luthoresque luthor than a modern day one

[FireStormTrooper]

I wouldn't mind a Lex Luthor audition session consisting of the following actors (alphabetical order here)

PETE POSTELTHWAITE = Watch "Jurassic Park : the Lost World". Put that bald guy in a $5000 business suit and that's what Lex Luthor (either CEO or Presidential version) should look like onscreen.

KEVIN SPACEY = He has the intellect and cunning aspects nailed. He lacks the physical stature of Luthor (who is no wimp), but he has the mental presence down.

BRUCE WILLIS = Main problem here is that Willis is way too much of a star and Lex Luthor is not nearly as flamboyant a role as the Joker for audiences to forget they're watching Bruce Willis.

BILLY ZANE = Might be too young. Has the look and the smirk. Looks great bald. Not nearly the actor that the above three are, tho. Still, has great potential.

For other villains ... I like Metallo. Not the mechanical skeleton version, but the way he looked in SUPERMAN #1 (1987). Metallo should look like a giant human with glwoing all-green eyes, someone who dwarfs even Superman in pure physical power. Someone big and hulking, but capable of delivering lines with believability.

CLANCY BROWN (Krugen in Highlander) = This guy was the voice of Lex Luthor in S:TAS. But he's friggin' HUGE. Getting up there in age ... gotta be pushing 45 by now, but has the right presence for the role.

HUNTER HOLMES HELMSLEY (Triple H in WWE) = I'm not big on wrestlers becoming movie stars, but they seem to fit the bill for these types of assignments. We know he's comfortable stating scripted braggadacio before and after matches, so this would be right up his alley.

[beppo_the_super_chim]

read the man of steel miniseries and superman for all seasons, spacey has the perfect build for luthor. The modern luthor is total opposite of what luthor used to be. The original luthor was shorter and fatter and older than the current one and was much better for it.

as for mettallo, he should start off as john corben, lookign like a normal human but then the fake skin is blown off and underneath he is a terminatoresque robot.

[FireStormTrooper]

I disagree. The fat Luthor is way too reminiscent of Marvel's Kingpin (who was doing the criminal-masquerading-as-philanthropist years before DC revamped Luthor for it). I really like the idea that Lex Luthor is exactly what Bruce Wayne would have become had he embraced the dark side. Luthor should be imposing in his own right. He has to have a magnetic quality (not at all saying that fat people don't have these qualities, mind you) and a fearsome presence. Luthor is vain and proud and wealthier than Bill Gates. Either way, this is Hollywood. You'd see Kevin Spacey as Luthor way before you'd see that bald lawyer guy from the cancelled Murder One tv series (what's his name?). I still like Postelthwaite, tho.

As for Metallo, I have just the guy : VINCENT D'ONOFRIO. He was the villian in the Jennifer Lopez flick THE CELL. This guy is big, probably bigger than the actor who would play Superman. This guy can act ... really, really well. This guy is no stranger to sci-fi themes or extensive make-up or prosthetics. As the fight with Supes goes, more and more of Metallo's metallic body is exposed, but most of his human face stays on to the very end. Have to remember that Metallo is a cyborg, not a robot.

[Frostbite]

Luthor: Suave, wealthy, but still contains some of his mad scientist-ness, sort of like the Luthor in the Justice League cartoon. Played by either Michael Chiklis or Sam O'Neil.

[ModeMan]

I think it would be cool if Luthor went a bit mad, but not until a later movie. And that would be the one in which he finally gets taken down. I think they handled it perfectly with Justice League.

I still think Luthor would be really cool if played by Willis. I actually want him to be somewhat in shape. Just like Rosenbaum. I think that rosenbaum has been about the best to play Luthor so far. I loved Hackman but he was playing a completely different Luthor than the next movie should have. Since my favorite Luthors are Rosenbaum and Brown, I would hope the movie would follow those aspects. If they did I think Willis could fit the role nicely. And I also think that whoever plays Luthor and whoever plays Jor-El should be the only big names in the movie. Just like with the original.

[beppo_the_super_chim]

fair enough but pete postlethwaite (urgh, spelling gone wrong) couldnt play that luthor, he's over 60 as far as i know and he is quite short. he could play luthor his way very well but i'm just not sure if thats the luthor you'd all want to see from what you've described.

superman for all seasons is my superman bible so I have to support the luthor of old.

he doesnt have to be fat, just not thin. bruce willis is too much of a name actor and not a character actor I would pick robert de niro before willis... hang on a tick... robert de niro... if he could be signed on for sequals...

[FireStormTrooper]

I've changed my mind on the whole old/young Lex Luthor thing ... It occurred to me that Superman is physical perfection. Handsome, tall, strong, perfect hair, young, etc. If we went with the old Lex, who doesn't measure up physically at all with Supes (he's shorter, older, heavier, bald, not built) but can totally compete purely on intellect and cunning and charisma ... audiences are more likely to sympathize and maybe even secretly root for Lex as he is far easier to relate to. Nothing was ever handed to Luthor, whereas Superman is not responsible for any of his abilities.

That said, I'd definitely go with KEVIN SPACEY as billionaire CEO Lex Luthor with the Kryptonite ring.

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FireStormTrooper:
<B>I've changed my mind on the whole old/young Lex Luthor thing ... It occurred to me that Superman is physical perfection. Handsome, tall, strong, perfect hair, young, etc. If we went with the old Lex, who doesn't measure up physically at all with Supes (he's shorter, older, heavier, bald, not built) but can totally compete purely on intellect and cunning and charisma ... audiences are more likely to sympathize and maybe even secretly root for Lex as he is far easier to relate to. Nothing was ever handed to Luthor, whereas Superman is not responsible for any of his abilities.

That said, I'd definitely go with KEVIN SPACEY as billionaire CEO Lex Luthor with the Kryptonite ring.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, to me Kevin Spacey is just as likeable as Bruce Willis so the audience rooting for Lex is moot. I think it boils down to what kind of intensity you want from Lex. I think Bruce Willis has learned to have a more quiet presence while still maintaining intensity onscreen. Kevin Spacey's intensity is expressed more outwardly in the movies I've seen. Both, in my opinion would do justice to the character and I would probably end up rooting for either one(especially if they got some goofball like "Ashcan" Kutcher to play Supes).

On another note, if this hadn't been done already in movies like Batman and Daredevil, I would suggest an actor that isn't white; Steve Harris from The Practice IMO has what it takes to play Lex. Especially if you want Lex to be a heavy set guy.

[This message has been edited by D.K.HOOD (edited 06-19-2003).]

[Frostbite]

If they made Superman's greatest enemy black, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and all those people and all their followers would get all angry and say that it's racist.

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frostbite:
If they made Superman's greatest enemy black, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and all those people and all their followers would get all angry and say that it's racist.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did they say anything about the Kingpin? I don't remember them saying anything. As a matter of fact, I believe they would be very supportive of a black man playing Lex Luthor.

[FireStormTrooper]

DC/WB would be accused of copycating Marvel's Daredevil and too much would be made of the political correctness of the move. Besides, Lex Luthor is 10 times more well known than the Kingpin to the movie-going public.

He's been seen in 3 of Superman's major motion pictures, the current Smallville, the 1990s Lois & Clark, the 1980s Superboy the series, the 1950s Adventures of Superman TV series and many animated series (Superman/Aquaman show, SuperFriends, S:TAS, and Justice League). And every single time, Lex Luthor has been portrayed as a WHITE man. Luthor has a definitive look that the public automatically associates with him. Luthor is a national (and possibly global)icon that the Kingpin simply is not.

And, for the coup de grace : Unlike the Kingpin, there is no shortage of qualified white actors for the role of Lex Luthor. Luthor is not required to be physically more imposing than Superman. Lookswise, all that is required that the white actor looks good bald.

It WAS difficult to find a good white actor for the Kingpin : No white actor was big enough to tangle with the 6'4" Ben Affleck. And MCD met all the other requirements for the part of Wilson Fisk. But for Luthor, depending on how you want to go, there's Kevin Spacey, Bruce Willis, Billy Zane, Pete Postelthwaite, Michael Rosenbaum, Michael Chiklis, etc. There is no shortage of qualified actors who already look the part.

Understand something though, I only say this because Luthor is already established in the public mind. I had no problem with MCD as the Kingpin, who is NOT established (outside of that stupid Hulk Tv movie that no one outside of us Comic Book Reader watched). I would have no problem if they made Metallo a black/asian/latino cyborg, as he is not an established icon either. But Luthor is different. And besides, The CEO verison of Luthor is symbolic of The Man. Wealthy and getting away with all kinds of sh*t.

[Frostbite]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FireStormTrooper:
He's been seen in 3 of Superman's major motion pictures, the current Smallville, the 1990s Lois & Clark, the 1980s Superboy the series, the 1950s Adventures of Superman TV series and many animated series (Superman/Aquaman show, SuperFriends, S:TAS, and Justice League).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Luthor was on The Adventures of Superman? I don't think I've ever seen that episode. How did it go?

[The Xenos]

Hey, for villians in the film, what about starting out with Luthor sending Metallo after Supes, then find out Brainiac's involved. At the end of the film, Braniac warns or teases about an invasion or powerful force in space setting up for the next film's villian... Darkseid. Bam. There's part of your franchise Warners.

-Xenos

[FireStormTrooper]

Let's take a quick recap of Superman's rogues gallery.

1. Lex Luthor (brilliantly evil CEO/president/scientist/criminal)
2. Brainiac (technologically hyper-advanced sentient machine)
3. Metallo (cyborg made of an indestructible alloy and a kryptonite heart)
4. Bizarro (deformed clone of Superman with the self-control of a 4-year-old)
5. Mister Mxylpltlk (5-dimensional nigh-omnipotent being with a thing for games)
6. Darkseid (supremely powerful and intelligent alien god)
7. Doomsday (unstoppable killer capable of resurrection and adaptation)
8. Maxima (alien queen looking to mate with Superman to produce worthy offspring)
9. Blaze (demoness of Hell always attempting to corrupt Superman to own his soul)
10. Gog (empowered fanatic who believes that Superman is the antichrist or a false god)
11. The Parasite (mutated villain with the ability to absorb powers and memories)
12. The Toyman (the lone psychopath of Superman's rogues obsessed with lethal toys)
13. Cerebus (bizarre headless creature that uses the cryogenically preserved heads of criminals for its personality ... check out Superman : The Man of Steel issue #13 to see what I mean)
14. General Zod (Krypton's Other Last Son, always escaping from and returning to the Phantom Zone)
15. Intergang (hi-tech criminal organization in Metropolis adapted for the presence of superhumans)

Hmmm... 15 villians, all of whom could be the centerpiece for the next Superman movie. Personally, I'm getting tired of Lex Luthor and would love if the next film featured a yet-unseen Superman villian onsceen, like Metallo or Darkseid.

[D.K.HOOD]

Is Gog the same character as MaGog from Kingdom Come?

[imported_woody]

I'd still go with Clancy Brown as Luthor. I saw him recently in an episode of Enterprise, and he is tall and imposing with a deep voice, the voice that the recent Superman cartoons for Luthor. Keven Spacey seems just a little to light weight and not serious enough to play Superman's number one villan.

[ModeMan]

I think Luthor always has to be there. But he should only be big in the first Superman movie and just kind of be in the back ground in the other movies. In the first Superman movie he needs to weigh Superman up and take him on. In the other movies he should take a back seat and let others do his dirty work while he pulls strings. Sort of like Superman 1 and 2.
I don't think he should be involved at all with enemies like Brainiac or Zod, though.

[FireStormTrooper]

I just want to see a villian who can brawl with Superman and still keep my interest. Bizarro's too stupid and comical. Doomsday doesn't really talk. Gog ... would be interesting, but not nearly developed enough yet in the comics. Maxima, also very interesting, but who wants to see Supes go toe-to-toe violently with a woman (even if she is super-powered)? Screw it, give me Metallo as a human-faced cyborg with a kryptonite heart operating under orders from President or CEO Lex Luthor and I'm happy.

[IronFoot]

First Vincent D'onfrio wasn't the villian in the cell. Vince Vaughn was.

Second. it's Hunter Herst Helmsley

[norrinraad]

Vincent D'Onofrio was the serial killer in The Cell. Vince Vaughn played an FBI agent.

[IronFoot]

Norrin. Pete who is the FBI agent is Vince D'Onofrio the large guy with black hair who's on one of the three law and order series. Vince vaugh is the creepy looking blond guy who's the killer.

[D.K.HOOD]

You have your roles mixed up IronFoot. D'Onofrio was the killer in The Cell. Yes, he is the large guy with dark hair on a Law & Order series.

Vince Vaughn was the FBI agent in The Cell. He played in the remake of Psycho as Norman Bates and he's co-starred with John Favreau in a couple of films.

[FireStormTrooper]

Is Gog the same character as MaGog from Kingdom Come?

Gog is a character that was introduced in THE KINGDOM, DC's 1998 follow-up story to their 1996 hit KINGDOM COME. During the events of KC, Superman rescues a young boy named William. William grows up idolizing Superman and becomes his worshipper as a young man. Clark finds out about this and tells him that he is NOT a god, shattering the young man's world. At this time, a group of beings consisting of the guardian Ganthet, the wizard Shazam, the god Zeus and some others endow William with god-like power and the ability to time-travel. William goes psycho from the experience and takes the name Gog, now believing that Superman is the antichrist or a false god. Gog rushes to find Superman and then kills him. And to make things worse, Gog goes back in time to the day before and kills Supes again. Then Gog goes back the day before that, and kills Superman again. He keeps doing this, killing Superman a new way everyday, causing a rift in the space-time continuum (always wanted to say that :P). The afterlife is littered with hundreds of dead Supermen. Gog finds out about Superman and Wonder Woman's son and kidnaps him, intending to raise the infant as his "Magog".

Long story brought to a short end, Supes and WW's son does NOT become Magog (he'll actually grow up to become the Phantom Stranger, or so we're led to believe). The Magog in KINGDOM COME's origin is unknown so far.

[D.K.HOOD]

Thanks for the info!

[Riki Tiki Tavi]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frostbite:
If they made Superman's greatest enemy black, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and all those people and all their followers would get all angry and say that it's racist.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow this is really a divisive statement.

MCD was accepted as Kingpin (And I'm sure brought more than a few Black viewers to the teatres) and even when many caucasian professional wrestlers (ie King Kong Bundy) could have portrayed him.

Also, my children have asked me on occassion, why is Lex Black on Superman TAS and White on the Smallville.

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Riki Tiki Tavi:
Also, my children have asked me on occassion, why is Lex Black on Superman TAS and White on the Smallville. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif

I always thought he looked like he was from the Middle-East on Superman TAS. I thought Superman looked a little ethnic also.

[Frostbite]

He's not black! He's just tan!

[ModeMan]

Lex is just tan and has his lips drawn on. The cop who got that suit that gave him super strength was the same shade as Lex, but he didn't have the lips going on so he just looks white.

So, on the animated show, Lex falls into the Vin Diesel category. Heaven knows what ethnic background he really is.

Superman was very ethnic on the animated series. His anscestors are from a completely different planet.

[Riki Tiki Tavi]

I do realize that Lex isn't black and it was all artist interpretation but it just goes to show that with fictional characters it really doesn't mater unless the story addresses ethnicity.

[This message has been edited by Riki Tiki Tavi (edited 08-05-2003).]

[FireStormTrooper]

In the next Superman movie, I would like to see Lex Luthor in one of two roles : either as multibillionaire Chairman and CEO of LexCorp or President of the United States. I'm really itching for the Prez Lex take, but it's probably safer (esp in these ultra-patriotic times) NOT to portray the Commander-in-Chief as a scumbag. So CEO Lex is cool with me, too.

Anyway, this would very very loosely follow some of the plot lines in John Byrne's late 80s run. Superman shows up and has Luthor arrested for endangering innocent lives (but he's back on the streets in 12 hours). Luthor vows revenge, using his ties with the military-industrial complex to convince the top brass that Superman is a great threat to national security.

Luthor learns that the military has finished construction on an experimental cyborg, made of an indestructible alloy called "metallo" and powered by an incredibly radioactive large meteorite. Luthor also learns that a U.S. mercenary named John Corben had been fatally injured during a military operation but had signed a special organ donor agreement in case of death. They transplant Corben still-functioning brain into the Metallo cyborg and cover it with synthetic skin. Metallo is meant to be the military's ultimate weapon and his first test will be against Superman, with Luthor arraigning the battle.

[brokenstatue2001]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ModeMan:
<B>So, on the animated show, Lex falls into the Vin Diesel category. Heaven knows what ethnic background he really is.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vin Diesel is part black and part italian. And I always thought that Luthor was black in the cartoon.

And I like the idea of Bruce Willis as Lex Luthor, but I don't think he should be the main villain. Maybe somewhere in the middle but with leanings to the baddies.

Maybe the villains should be Brainiac and Metallo, but something tells me that cyborg from one of the 80's Superman movies was supposed to represent him, even though it was female.

[FireStormTrooper]

If you're referring to SUPERMAN III, I always thought that the wierd artificial kryptonite that turned Superman immoral should have been red K. And I think that supercomputer should have been Brainiac. But no way does that dorky female turned cyborg represent Metallo. Come on now!

[brokenstatue2001]

Well, I think that Superman's fighting against too many damn robots anyways. Maybe someone else, I keep hearing Doomsday being talked about whenever people talk about Superman, you think they might put him in the next film?