DOES ANYONE HERE EVEN READ THE SUPERMAN COMICS?

[themanwithoutfear]

like the topic say's "does anyone on here even read the titles anymore?"

what are your thoughts/feelings etc.
i buy superman and birthright.
love birthright but lately superman has sucked. very inconsistent.

[jj]

I havn't been reading lately but saw on the supermanhomepage that superman is being revamped in 2004 anyway... so I wouldn't worry about how the stories are going in 2003

[Darth_zaiyen]

HEY MANWITHOUTFEAR! PLEASE STOP TYPING YOUR TOPIC NAMES IN ALL CAPS!

And no, I don't read any Superman books.

[biggcaesar]

I read all the Superman books. Love them. Why?

[WC]

Never read a Superman comic in my life. Nor Wonder Woman, nor Batman. In fact, i've never read any DC before. All I know about Superman is from the films and various tv series. For some reason I can never relate to the Superman comic.

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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[Darth_zaiyen]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Welshcat:
<B>Never read a Superman comic in my life. Nor Wonder Woman, nor Batman. In fact, i've never read any DC before. All I know about Superman is from the films and various tv series. For some reason I can never relate to the Superman comic.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're a Welsh purple cat with no arms or legs, what comics CAN you relate to!??!

And I have read Superman comics (as well as JLA) in the past, though I haven't bought a Superman book in a long time, and I quit reading JLA just after the Obsidian Age arch.

[Shani]

Sometimes, to see what's going on there.

[The Xenos]

The last time I read SUperman on a regular basis was that freaky Superman Arkham run. Or course it's called Arkham, so my Bat-sense was tingliing. PLus I am a fan of Leob and Casey and they were on the books at the time. Otherwise, I jsut pick up an issue here and there. PLus I am now getting that Batman/Superman.

-Xenos

[themanwithoutfear]

man that batman/superman book rocks! for some reason that scene with superman and the shot gun with the kryptonite bullet was just..man...fuckin amazing!

[The Xenos]

the only thing was that the Supes from the future seemed a little too out of nowhere. Other than that a little bit, the ish was great. Plus that last scene with Luthor is great. Nothing like Superman and Batman fighting an evil US President. It's hunting season.

-Xenos

[FireStormTrooper]

Has anyone heard of this series called SUPREME POWER? It's a mature-readers' title from Marvel (under their MAX imprint). Basically, from what I gather, it's a more grown-up take on Superman and the other members of the Justice League ... err, I mean, Hyperion and the other members of the Squadron Supreme.

Why hasn't there been a single Mature-Readers story about Superman? I understand he's all bright and optimistic, but ... not ONE single story. Maybe a Vertigo book about Superman? Would anyone buy such a book? I would, if only because the Vertigo writing would probably be miles ahead of what's currently in the S-books.

[bottleHeD]

Mature? Superman is a lame-ass do-gooder. Mature stuff would involve stuff sentiments up where the sun don't shine and getting down to practical stuff.
What i'm saying is, mature stuff can only involve violence and/or sexual themes that wouldn't find their way into the monthly books.

Like murder. Would supes ever kill anyone? Even if it meant saving millions? I think not. The one time that he did, (in the phantom zone), he was so overcome with grief, he went into exile! What kind of lame ass doofus would punish himself for executing the murderers of millions?? i'll tell you who. Superman.

Like rape. Handled in Batman - the Killing Joke. What would happen if it happened to Lois? Would supes avenge it?

Another thing. those of ya who have read Morrison's JLA - Rock Of Ages, further proof that Supes is a born idiot. Darkseid's factory turns Lois into one of those Mindless Droids. So Supes kills her to save her this misery. Good. What does he do then? Tears his containment suit (he's in the electric blue) to kill himself, as he has broken his code. Lame Lame Lame.

Superman sucks.

[ModeMan]

I like how Superman wont kill people. Batman too.
Yeah, it sure sucks to have superheroes with unflinching standards doesn't it? I mean don't we all want our heroes to be hypocrites?

[The Xenos]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ModeMan:
I mean don't we all want our heroes to be hypocrites?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, we leave that to our politicians.

-Xenos

[norrinraad]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bottleHeD:
Like murder. Would supes ever kill anyone? Even if it meant saving millions? I think not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that this is a large part of what makes the character so appealing to millions. Imagine having all that power. What would you do with it? You could literally create a utopia, but at what cost? If Superman killed every adversary he encountered from petty thief on up, what kind of message would he be sending to the people of Earth (never mind the fact there'd be no one left to fight, thus no series)? The character's moral foundation is what makes him so intriguing. He eschews that notion that "absolute power corrupts absolutely" and provides inspiration to all us humans. If an alien can be so morally upright, why can't we be? If he cares so deeply about us why can't we care about ourselves and each other?

The fact that Superman adheres to high principles is what makes him so compelling and appealing. A Superman who kills would disillusion millions. Besides, it's that philisophical quandry that makes heroes like Supes fascinating (by letting a criminal live he could always come back and kill someone else). Without themes like this the series would be awfully boring to read.

[FireStormTrooper]

Hey, what's the deal with this big revamp of the Superman titles scheduled for next year? What's going on? What are the planned changes? Is Waid's 2003 miniseries BIRTHRIGHT replacing Byrne's 1986 miniseries MAN OF STEEL as the definitive in-continuity Superman origin story now? I heard Jim Lee's scheduled for a 6-month to year-long run on Superman, similar in scope to his Batman run (hopefully, the Jim Lee Supes storyline will be a LOT more satisfying than "Hush" turned out). Anyone know anything concrete about the future of Superman comics?

[Frostbite]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FireStormTrooper:
Is Waid's 2003 miniseries BIRTHRIGHT replacing Byrne's 1986 miniseries MAN OF STEEL as the definitive in-continuity Superman origin story now?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It couldn't possibly, because it has Year One take place in the present day, which is impossible because of the Y2K storyline.

[themanwithoutfear]

christ! who gives a shit where or when it takes place? all we need to know is that birthright is a kick ass superman story (something we havent had in a while) and we should be thankful for that. in all honesty, if someone tried to cram all this continuity b.s. into there head in a proper time frame, they're head would explode.
so just sit back and enjoy waids words and yu's art.it's a hellova book.

[FireStormTrooper]

I'll probably wait for the inevitable hardcover/softcover collection of BIRTHRIGHT next year in order to save money on the individual issues. Seems pretty cool, but too much of a commitment right now.

[FireStormTrooper]

Just finished reading JLA/Avengers #2.

Superman. Kicked. Thor's. Ass.

And Thor was using the Hammer, too. So, now that it's established that Superman can beat the Hulk and Thor, who's next?

Sub-Mariner? Sure! Kal would not break a sweat on Namor. The First Son of Atlantis would get his clocked cleaned by The Last Son of Krypton. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/wink.gif

Silver Surfer? Ummm ... no. Silver Surfer is in a class by himself. I suppose Kal could definitely give the former Herald of Galactus a good run for his money, but barring unusual circumstances, Surfer would win out over Superman. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/frown.gif

Interestingly enough, I thought it was a nice touch that Batman conceded that Captain America would beat him in single hand-to-hand combat after only a minute of testing him.

[bottleHeD]

Superman beat Thor?? How did that happen? Thor is a God, for cryin' out loud...

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HeD t r i p p i n '

[FireStormTrooper]

To paraphrase Superman :

"You're a small god ... of a small world!"

Thor even brought his hammer down full force on Superman, who caught it and pushed back, shocking the hell out of Thor (apparently no one he's faced has ever done that) before roundhousing him with a vicious punch that left Thor unconscious.

"...The dials go up to 11!"

Then all the Avenger ganged up on Superman, beating him down until Aquaman took control of one of Marvel's giant sea-monsters and forcefully seperated them from the battered Supes.

[bottleHeD]

That's kinda majorly stoopid..

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HeD t r i p p i n '

[bottleHeD]

I can understand the roundhouse punch knocking down Thor, but blocking the Hammer??

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HeD t r i p p i n '

[norrinraad]

He weakened Thor a bit first with his heat vision. Also, Superman was almost psycho while they were fighting. It seems like somehow he and Thor were being manipulated by the cosmic guys to ensure a decent fight. And Superman did comment afterwards that Thor was the toughest opponent he ever faced. If Supes hadn't been so riled up at the time it might have ended differently.

[FireStormTrooper]

I'm not surprised that Superman could push Thor's hammer back. Something about that hammer has to do with worthiness and virtue. There's even an inscription on the hammer that reads something like "whomever yields this hammer, if they be worthy, shall wield the power of Thor". Diana momentarily became Goddess of Thunder in MARVEL VS. DC when she picked up Thor's hammer.

That's why not even the strongest villain can use or even pick it up (see Hulk/Maestro try and fail in FUTURE IMPERFECT). But Superman is no villain. He is THE Hero, more so than Thor. Superman has a morality that is overall superior to Thor's. That, combined with the fact that Superman and Thor are about in the same strength and durability class, shouldn't make it a shocker that Superman beat Thor.

As for Supes acting psycho, so was Thor. Thor attacked Superman with his hammer when all Superman was doing was yelling at the Avengers. Thor had never seen Supes before and didn't know that Supes could withstand the hammer at full force. So I think they were both "under the influence", but the end result would have been the same : if Superman can handle that Hammer (and he can), Thor loses.

Superman has simply too many natural abilities that Thor does not. Thor can't fly without the Hammer, Thor commands none of the lightning and thunder without the hammer ... most telling, Thor lacks superspeed, which means Superman lands 5 punches/kicks/whatever for every blow Thor gets in. With the hammer in Thor's hands and away from Superman's, it's a real fight. Without the hammer, Thor's done.

Plus, no way was Thor Superman's toughest opponent. It took all of 4 pages for Supes to put Thor down. It took 5-6 issues for Superman to put down Doomsday (and Doomsday killed him to boot). Superman's had tougher fights against Darkseid and Lobo.

[bottleHeD]

Virtue.. hmm, ok, sounds more plausible now..

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HeD t r i p p i n '

[FireStormTrooper]

Y'know, I wouldn't mind seeing a SUPERMAN / THOR (or THOR / SUPERMAN) team-up one-shot or miniseries. Thor is the might of myth & magic, while Superman is the power of science fiction. They're exact opposites in ego (Supes is humble, while Thor is proud) but equals in strength.

Think of it. Superman and Thor against Lex Luthor and Loki (or Darkseid and Loki ... or whatever combination works). Kal-El in Asgard, getting attention from Sif; or Thor in the Fortress of Solitude, fending off advances from Supergirl. There's potential here, people.

Get Dan Jurgens to write it and one of those Image artists-for-hire (how about Marc Silvestri) and mix the two worlds together.

I'd buy it.

[bottleHeD]

Fight? yes.
Love triangle thingy? noooooo....

And Mark Silvesteri, naa, he draws them bodies way too lean and elongated..

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HeD t r i p p i n '

[FireStormTrooper]

Ya gotta have more than just a slugfest to give readers. Thor's and Superman's worlds would have to interact. I'd prefer Darkseid over Luthor as the main villian here, as even Thor would be in awe of the Lord of Apokolips. However, Luthor and Loki are both master schemers to balance their respective foes' superior might, so that could work too.

Jimmy Olsen and Jake Olson could talk it out about being close to such powerful legends. And having Sif and Supergirl temporarily falling for Superman and Thor (respectively) shouldn't be a problem ... wait, is Sif married to Thor? Anyway, Supes would turn her down, as HE is definitely married. But it'd be fun to see these scenarios play out on the printed page.

DC and Marvel should get off their asses and make this one happen!

[bottleHeD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FireStormTrooper:
<B> Ya gotta have more than just a slugfest to give readers.
And having Sif and Supergirl temporarily falling for Superman and Thor (respectively) shouldn't be a problem ... wait, is Sif married to Thor? Anyway, Supes would turn her down, as HE is definitely married. But it'd be fun to see these scenarios play out on the printed page.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I dont dispute the facts that just a slugfest would make no sense, but please, having Sif fall for Supes (and Supergirl for Thor?) would be so predictable and boring... i'm sure thet can come up with something better,,,

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HeD t r i p p i n '

[FireStormTrooper]

Ah, it'll never happen anyways, so why even debate it further http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/frown.gif ?

Anyways, back to the comics ... has anyone here been reading BIRTHRIGHT? What's the verdict so far? I skipped out on the first issue and since have been waiting for the trade paperback to buy it. Am I missing out?

And just what is Jim Lee going to do with his run on Superman? As long as it's not a convoluted mess like HUSH turned out to be (I don't think I've been so let down by a finale as I was after reading BATMAN #619), I'm interested.

I've also heard that they've revamped the origin so that Lex Luthor did indeed spend some time in Smallville growing up. Guess that's the result of the WB's SMALLVILLE show. I'm not sure how I feel about other media influencing the comic books. Sometimes it's good, a la the Superman movies influencing John Bryne's 1986 comic book revamp. Sometimes it's bad, a la the Lois & Clark TV show influencing the 1996 comic book wedding. This newest example I'm kinda iffy on, cuz if Lex is anywhere near as smart and cunning as he's made out to be, no way he doesn't figure out Clark and Superman are one and the same if he spent any significant time with Clark growing up.

[themanwithoutfear]

this series is so damn good. have you read issue 5 yet? i think luthor does know clarks secret as he has kryptonite already.

[FireStormTrooper]

I haven't read ANY of the Superman's BIRTHRIGHT series yet. I'm probably going to wait until the trade paperback comes out. They better put a rush on that like they did with Batman's HUSH. I'm talking like,less than a month after BIRTHRIGHT finishes, I want to able to buy the trade paperback / hardcover / collected edition.

Luthor knowing Clark's secret ... actually works for me. Fuck kryptonite, there is NO better way to keep the most powerful being at bay than to blackmail him with threats to his loved ones. That would be enough to stop Clark from just ending Luthor's threat at the source.