OLD PUNISHER FILM.

[themanwithoutfear]

okay i know that most fans dislike the old punisher flick, and they say it's " the worst adaptation ever" but i for one like it and don't understand how it is or ever has been a bad adaptation. (and yes i am a punisher fan)
so lets take a look at this topic shall we...
"okay first we find that frank was a cop whose family was killed in a car bomb by the mob." this actually makes alot of sense. it updates the charecter for modern times( which by the way ALL marvel movies are doing now or has anyone not noticed?)
dolph lundgren made a good punisher. you could see the pain in his eyes. the dead blank cold look. he was perfect and i thin khe still could pull it off.( though i do like jane )
also it had a decent stroy.( yes some cheesy parts such as the yakuza poisonin the whine of the mob guys) but for the most part a good story. i mean c'mon frank teaming up with not only the kindof man he has sworn to kill but also the man who orderd the hit on his family.
i understand why frank would save the children too( and how other"fans" havent picked up on this i dont know) but frank would save them because though they are the kids of the enemy, they are just kids and innocents caught in a war they are not a part of. also frank was once a family man himself, so he knows that pain of losing a child and wouldnt even wish it upon his enemy.
the scene between frank and lou gossett in the jail cell is also one of the the greatest scene in a marvel movie. just watch it. it is just great and would like to see something similer in the new film.
also look at the other films it has had to contend with. captain america, and the fantastic four. honestly punisher is the most faithful of the 3.
captain maerica was just sad to watch yes it had its moments but just very very sad.
fantastic four is one of the best comdeys i have ever seen. it's good for enetainment value but is it spider-man? hell no. its chesse on vhs.
out of the 3 punisher was alot closer to the current crop of marvel film.it introduced new elemnts and ideas while keeping the charecter fresh and loyal to its roots.
let me know your thoughts...

[Lord Black Adder]

I did not dislike the original, it was a good action movie. I would not have wanted hin in black spandex with white boots and gloves, but a skull t-shirt, which is what looks like they're going with, would have been nice. Or a skull belt buckle, something.

[GRIM]

look, i dont think he punisher movie was has bad as people say. however, it could have been alot better.
#1: no car bomb, simpley because an explosian i not as impactfull as a shooting. a shooting is more cold blodded, plus i think its important that frank loo the poeple in the eye that are killing his family.

#2: no kids. because i dont believe the punisher needs to be considered a hero. now, i am more of a fan of the more recent garth eniss punisher storys, only because i thought the old comics took the idea of a vigilante lees seriousley than need be.

#3: no asian mafia! come one, they put them in thier cuz every little kid at the time, and probabley still in this time loves a good kung fu fight. new york baby! thats what its all about! new york is italian mafia, maybe a little IRA too, but mostly the waps have the run of the organized crime.

#4: skull, gotta have the skull, no not on a belt buckel, a big white skull on his front. why? because he is entirley black, and in the night, with little light, the first thing you see of the man who is about to kill you is a big...freekin..skull. and frank knows this. what, you think he waers it to be cool?

------------------
DICK

[norrinraad]

I have to agree here that the original version was not totally putrid. You have to look at in within the context of when it was released. At the time, producers had not learned yet that staying faithful to the source material was the best route to go. I think we can all agree that Burton's Batman was a successful experiment (at least financially) and that film took some major liberties with established comic book continuity. Punisher worked for what it was - a low budget action flick inspired by an established property. I don't think Marvel's involvement in the project was that great, either. And I agree with manwithoutfear that Dolph was just fine in the role. He's not a character actor per se but he registered the right amount of pain to be believable. The most dangerous man is the one who has nothing left to lose. And compared to the other efforts at the time based on Marvel characters, Punisher was at least not a total cheese fest. The movie had some good ideas but would have benefited greatly from a more stylish director, or at least one more in tune with the comic book. Take what was good about this film, stay truer to the source material, pump up the tension, make it grittier and darker, and we may just have a nifty little Punisher movie for this millenium. I have faith in this project so far. Even if it achieves just a little bit of what The Crow accomplished (and I do see the two as being thematically similar, as Frank does undergo something of a rebirth), I'll be happy.

[zombie_new_wave]

The entire movie shoulf have been like the scene on the dock. No queer ass skull knife. You all seem to forget the original reason for the skull: it was the only part of the Punisher's outfit that was made of kevlar. It served as a target for people to shoot at. I cannot rememeber what issue it is (I have 1-the end of the original series) but he told Micro that "It's better they shoot at that (the skull) than my head.

The movie--like X-Men--opened well and then just fell apart by weakoning the character. As far as not taking vigilantism seriously? Have you ever read the first series or the miniseries, where he would launch a rocket into a mafia convention, where he would find out Kingpin went on vacation to tell the rival gangs that he killed the Kingpin just to watch New York's crime bosses kill each other. There are countless other incidents in his first 20 appearances that show he took his vengence very seriously. It wasn't until he wouldn't open fire in a subway station that they actually started to give him a conscience.

Forget completely that Dolph can't act, much less pull of such an intense charachter, and you need a Bose subwoofer just to hear him speak. AND I really never thought of the Punisher bare-assed in a sewer!So I think the movie is great. My friends and I laughed at it then, and we just continue to laugh every time we se it.

"C'mooooon, god, answer me..." http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/eek.gif

------------------
Me fail spelling? That's unpossible.

[CaptainSkeptic]

That movie was absolutely terrible but it wasn't Dolph's fault.Lundren was actually a decent compromise between the old-school mike Zeck style punisher(bigger than all hell and sweating bullets madman) and the more recent renditions by Jim Lee and a host of crappuier artists(chisled, not as big and less like a pit bull with rabies).
WOuld it have been better to have gone with a great actor who looked nothing like Puni'?Not in my opinion.

The problems were with the story and script itself.

1)Frank's entire reason for starting his war on crime are relegated to a 60 second opening scene with his family being blown up in a car bombing.Throughout the movie there are no flashbacks or anything to let us in on Frank's relationship with his wife and children.Nothing at all to give us any reason to care about them as anything other than cookie cutter plot devices.Same mistake was made with the movie version of The Crow.

2)Riding motorcycles in Sewers.How in the HELL do you get your bike in and out of the sewer to go kill a bunch of people for five years straight and manage to avoid being caught by police?!?

Sanitation worker:"Hello..."

9-1-1 operator:"Police, fire or medical...?"

Sanitation worker:"Police please."

Operator :"One moment."

Police dispatch officer:"Hello, what is your emergency?"

Worker:"Yeah...I have called about this at least a dozen times now but this weird smelly guy on the motorcycle just rode out of our service tunnel again.I am quite sure he lives down there and we are afraid to go down there to do our job.This time he had a shitload of guns with him!"

Officer:"Please hold while I transfer you to a detective."

3)Unecessary supporting characters overacting.We did not need the drunken "thespian", the Yakuzza etc..

4)Saving busloads of children.Again, this whole sub-plot with the children was out of place adn they could have used that film to give us more insight into the main characters(namely Frank himself).

5)The plotting and pacing in general were just atrocious.Also many scenes seemed to have been thrown in as obligatory comic hero cliche's(standing in a doorway while a building explodes and yet "mysteriously" escaping unharmed or heading to the roof of a sky scraper at the end, with NO RAPPELLING GEAR only to have "mysteriously" vanished a few seconds later when Lou Gosset's character arrives at the rooftop)

[This message has been edited by CaptainSkeptic (edited 05-01-2003).]

[imported_Robbo]

I'm moving this to the brand new Punisher forum (http://www.comics2film.com/cgibin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Punisher&number=18&DaysPrune=30&LastLogin=)!

[WC]

Perhaps Lundgren didn't seem articulate enough, not that the Punisher would be a man of many words. But still, Lundgren wasn't great at expressing himself. And he also seemed just like some non-descript vigilante who just happened to call himself the Punisher, not the actual character himself.

------------------
Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[GRIM]

i think what i liked about garth enises rendition of puni the most was the sick sence of humor he brought to the book. i just hope the new movie has that in there.

"mourge gun fighting 1 0 1, use that fat corpses as shields."

[Kwick22a]

I think the main problem I've always had with this version of the Punisher, is Dolph Lundgren always sounded a little out of it. I figure it was ment to convey Frank's detachment from the world, but to me it sounded like he was half asleep, stoned, slightly drunk, or some combination of each.

[WC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kwick22a:
I think the main problem I've always had with this version of the Punisher, is Dolph Lundgren always sounded a little out of it. I figure it was ment to convey Frank's detachment from the world, but to me it sounded like he was half asleep, stoned, slightly drunk, or some combination of each.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What do you mean? Dolph always sounds like that! http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif Think of his line at the end of Masters of the Universe compared to how everyone else delivered it: "Good journey!"


------------------
Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[Kwick22a]

Actually in Masters of the Universe I found him to be more constipated with a head cold than sleepy.
Many times it sounded like he was either having a hard time nose breathing, and at others his voice had that straining on the toilet quality.

[GRIM]

man i loved that move yo! im still amazed to this day that they got Michal Jackson for skelator, a look alike only matched by patrick stewart as Prof. X

------------------
DICK

[CaptainSkeptic]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
<B>man i loved that move yo! im still amazed to this day that they got Michal Jackson for skelator, a look alike only matched by patrick stewart as Prof. X

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I cannot tell if this was supposed to be a joke or what but Skeletor(S-K-E-L-E-T-O-R-) was played by Frank Langella, not Michael Jackson.

Your spelling and grammar are atrocious.



------------------
"I am in a very peculiar business...I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know."-James Randi

[WC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CaptainSkeptic:
<B> I cannot tell if this was supposed to be a joke or what but Skeletor(S-K-E-L-E-T-O-R-) was played by Frank Langella, not Michael Jackson.

Your spelling and grammar are atrocious.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Speaking of Skeletor, what's his face doing on the Punisher's T-Shirt? http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif



------------------
Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[MALCOLMXERXES]

THEMANWITHOUTFEAR,

I admit to being displeased about the casting of the film when first I read of it in MARVEL AGE(TM), but once I saw the pix of MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN in costume, I was ready to be convinced.

If he had been permitted to wear the skull emblazoned on his chest, however, I would have been an immediate convert!

It was not until my 9th consecutive viewing of the film on VHS that I could enjoy the film for what it is, letting go of my various biases, & was finally able to recognise the various subtleties in Design & Style, exempli gratia:

1) MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN'S face had been shaven & made up to resemble a deathshead, just as on the cover of THE PUNISHER(TM) #75;

2) The Minimalist acting of MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN was reminiscent of MR. DAVID CARRADINE in KUNG FU(TM);

3) MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN'S arid delivery was so subtle & my prejudice so great, that I had been missing various comic lines of dialogue for what they were, ignorant of the fact that this performance paved the way for MESSRS. GARTH ENNIS & STEVE DILLON in their excellent work, to date;

4) THE PUNISHER'S(TM) living in a sewer was a visual metaphor of his alienation from Society;

5) Subtle Comics continuity touches such as the immense dislike of Ninjas;

6) The unusual ordnance he was packing - such as the THOMPSON SUBMACHINE GUN(TM) - which bespoke his practise of gathering up the fallen weaponry of the gangsters he has killed;

7) The fact that he starts off clean, but becomes progressively dirtier throughout the film;

8) THE PUNISHER(TM) takes several savage beatings from his enemies, including a tiny blonde female;

9) His pragmatism about dispatching lethal women as it becomes necessary to do so;

10) SHAKE'S tendency to speak in verse;

The scene in the alley when the camera pans up from THE PUNISHER'S(TM) boots to reveal his displeased physiognomy is Pure Cinematic Magic, & would have been Perfection Itself, had MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN been permitted by NEW WORLD PICTURES (AUSTRALIA) & MR. "SMILIN'" STAN "THE MAN" LEE to wear the skull on his chest!

MX

[This message has been edited by MALCOLMXERXES (edited 05-23-2003).]

[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
<B>#2: no kids. because i dont believe the punisher needs to be considered a hero. now, i am more of a fan of the more recent garth eniss punisher storys, only because i thought the old comics took the idea of a vigilante lees seriousley than need be.

#3: no asian mafia! come one, they put them in thier cuz every little kid at the time, and probabley still in this time loves a good kung fu fight. new york baby! thats what its all about! new york is italian mafia, maybe a little IRA too, but mostly the waps have the run of the organized crime. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRIM,

I grok the fullness of the totality of your other 2 points!

However, I don't think that THE PUNISHER(TM) has been "considered a hero" since FRANK CASTLE went A.W.O.L. If anything, the man is an Antihero.

Also, the fact of his children being murdered does not lessen that impact, nor does it make the Moral, Legal & Ethical choices that we are forced to make when we encounter him in person any lesser; if anything, it makes those choices harder, especially for honest police personnel.

THE YAKUZA were necessary opponents for THE PUNISHER(TM) in the film because their methodology was outside of his experience, giving him & JOHNNY FRANCO a viable arc to travel together, just as DAREDEVIL(TM) & THE KINGPIN(TM) did in their film together.

As well, no "Kung Fu" was used in the film; it was Judo, Aikido & various other Japanese fighting systems, as well as Boxing.



------------------
MALCOLM XERXES Stuntman/Actor
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

[MALCOLMXERXES]

NORRINRAAD,

I agree with you, for the most part, except for the following, which I think is a gross understatement of the facts:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by norrinraad:
I think we can all agree that Burton's Batman was a successful experiment (at least financially) and that film took some major liberties with established comic book continuity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For me, what TB & JS did was totally undermine & subvert THE BATMAN(TM) & his established lore & modus operandi, rather than "taking some major liberties"!

THE JOKER(TM) was not a Professional Gangster who murdered BRUCE WAYNE'S parents, et cetera. This was a trite cinematic cliche that was even inflicted upon us again in DAREDEVIL(TM), recently.

THE BATMAN(TM) would not deploy missiles & machine guns on the streets of Gotham City, taking out innocent civilians in his efforts to kill known criminals, not even THE JOKER(TM), himself!

MR. ALFRED PENNYWORTH would never divulge THE BATMAN'S(TM) secret identity to another human being, let alone bring them into THE BATCAVE(TM) without the latter's express consent that he do so.

THE BATMAN(TM) would not wear a costume that would prevent him from even moving properly, lest he find himself bested in a fight when outnumbered by criminals who were superior H2H combatants, as was the case in the belfry & in the alley when he rescued VICKI VALE by deploying his pistol to shoot a line.

There are numerous other violations of tactical common sense & good storytelling, but I don't want to belabour my point.


------------------
MALCOLM XERXES Stuntman/Actor
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zombie_new_wave:
<B>The entire movie shoulf have been like the scene on the dock. No queer ass skull knife. You all seem to forget the original reason for the skull: it was the only part of the Punisher's outfit that was made of kevlar. It served as a target for people to shoot at. I cannot rememeber what issue it is (I have 1-the end of the original series) but he told Micro that "It's better they shoot at that (the skull) than my head.

The movie--like X-Men--opened well and then just fell apart by weakoning the character. As far as not taking vigilantism seriously? Have you ever read the first series or the miniseries, where he would launch a rocket into a mafia convention, where he would find out Kingpin went on vacation to tell the rival gangs that he killed the Kingpin just to watch New York's crime bosses kill each other. There are countless other incidents in his first 20 appearances that show he took his vengence very seriously. It wasn't until he wouldn't open fire in a subway station that they actually started to give him a conscience.

Forget completely that Dolph can't act, much less pull of such an intense charachter, and you need a Bose subwoofer just to hear him speak. AND I really never thought of the Punisher bare-assed in a sewer!So I think the movie is great. My friends and I laughed at it then, and we just continue to laugh every time we se it.

"C'mooooon, god, answer me..." http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/eek.gif

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ZNW,

I understand what you're getting @, but with respect, I must challenge you on a few points.

Firstly, The skull dagger motif would have worked if it complemented the skull that should have been emblazoned on THE PUNISHER'S(TM) chest, rather than replacing it.

Secondly, KEVLAR&#8482 must shield his entire torso in order to be effective, since no goombah is going to shoot only @ the skull on his chest. Like him, they seek targets of opportunity, especially since they are generally not well-trained, highly proficient pistoleros, as THE PUNISHER(TM) is.

The story to which you made reference was in the first issue of THE PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL(TM), if memory serves me correctly, but I am prepared to have my recall challenged on that.

I fail to grasp how the film "weakened the character", since everything that he did & said both advanced Plot & revealed Character. Please elaborate.

I contend that THE PUNISHER(TM) has always had "a conscience", but that killing criminals does not bother it, since he feels & thinks them beneath even his contempt. If he had none, then he would have no compunction about opening fire on civilians, as TB had THE BATMAN(TM) doing in his 1989 travesty.

I think & feel that you are being overly dismissive of MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN'S acting ability to say that he "can't" do it. It would be fairer to say that he has a limited range & technical skill, but I thought that he was perfect for THE PUNISHER(TM), just as he was perfect for HE-MAN(TM) in MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE(TM), IVAN DRAGO in ROCKY IV(TM), et cetera.

The monotone delivery was perfectly representative of a man who is in a state of mental disassociation, utterly alienated from Society, arguably even from himself.

The naked meditation in the sewer was indicative of his extensive Martial training, instead of making him like a character portrayed by HERR ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, a character who is covered in muscle, but who does not move like a trained fighter, utters vapid one-liners, has weapons that never exhaust themselves of ammunition, suffers no lasting effects of the violence visited upon him, & who does not undergo any meaningful change to his personality during the course of the story.

...And I say that with all due respect to HERR SCHWARZENEGGER, who is a brilliant businessman, but also a limited actor.


------------------
MALCOLM XERXES Stuntman/Actor
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CaptainSkeptic:
<B>That movie was absolutely terrible but it wasn't Dolph's fault.Lundren was actually a decent compromise between the old-school mike Zeck style punisher(bigger than all hell and sweating bullets madman) and the more recent renditions by Jim Lee and a host of crappuier artists(chisled, not as big and less like a pit bull with rabies).
WOuld it have been better to have gone with a great actor who looked nothing like Puni'?Not in my opinion.

The problems were with the story and script itself.

1)Frank's entire reason for starting his war on crime are relegated to a 60 second opening scene with his family being blown up in a car bombing.Throughout the movie there are no flashbacks or anything to let us in on Frank's relationship with his wife and children.Nothing at all to give us any reason to care about them as anything other than cookie cutter plot devices.Same mistake was made with the movie version of The Crow.

2)Riding motorcycles in Sewers.How in the HELL do you get your bike in and out of the sewer to go kill a bunch of people for five years straight and manage to avoid being caught by police?!?

Sanitation worker:"Hello..."

9-1-1 operator:"Police, fire or medical...?"

Sanitation worker:"Police please."

Operator :"One moment."

Police dispatch officer:"Hello, what is your emergency?"

Worker:"Yeah...I have called about this at least a dozen times now but this weird smelly guy on the motorcycle just rode out of our service tunnel again.I am quite sure he lives down there and we are afraid to go down there to do our job.This time he had a shitload of guns with him!"

Officer:"Please hold while I transfer you to a detective."

3)Unecessary supporting characters overacting.We did not need the drunken "thespian", the Yakuzza etc..

4)Saving busloads of children.Again, this whole sub-plot with the children was out of place adn they could have used that film to give us more insight into the main characters(namely Frank himself).

5)The plotting and pacing in general were just atrocious.Also many scenes seemed to have been thrown in as obligatory comic hero cliche's(standing in a doorway while a building explodes and yet "mysteriously" escaping unharmed or heading to the roof of a sky scraper at the end, with NO RAPPELLING GEAR only to have "mysteriously" vanished a few seconds later when Lou Gosset's character arrives at the rooftop)

[This message has been edited by CaptainSkeptic (edited 05-01-2003).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CAPTAINSKEPTIC,

I concur with your assessment of MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN'S being a synthesis of 2 major Comics interpretations, nice 1!

The family footage was shot, as was the backstory with the female detective who became JAKE BERKOWITZ'S new partner, et cetera, but it was excised from the final cut. If you examine the VHS/DVD packaging, you will see that several of the pictures are scenes not included in the North American edition.

The motorbike in the sewer was a conceit that pleased me well, since it was an affectionate parody/tribute to THE BATCAVE(TM), & addressed THE PUNISHER'S(TM) self-loathing & Survivor Guilt.

I required no Suspension of Disbelief, & you are the only person I know of who has taken issue with it, but I did enjoy your hypothetical telephone call, quite a lot! http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif

Personally, I preferred SHAKE more than MICROCHIP, & did not feel that MR. BARRY OTTO "overacted", nor did the various personnel assembled to portray THE YAKUZA, especially the delectable MS. KIM MIYORI.

I thought & felt that the rescue of the gangster children was a beautiful piece of Irony, given that JOHNNY FRANCO was responsible for the deaths of THE PUNISHER'S(TM) family.

The fact that he allowed himself to be taken into custody, rather than allow further jeopardy to threaten the gangster kids also let us know that even a Professional Vigilante can have a Conscience, Ethics & Morality.

I had no problems with the film's "plotting & pacing", as you did, but I understand why you reacted the way you did to the various escapes from fiery explosions & the skyscraper.

However, I am more generous with my own Suspension of Disbelief, so I like to think that THE PUNISHER(TM) always plans @ least 2 possible exfiltration scenarios whenever he mounts a mission.


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor

[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Welshcat:
<B>Perhaps Lundgren didn't seem articulate enough, not that the Punisher would be a man of many words. But still, Lundgren wasn't great at expressing himself. And he also seemed just like some non-descript vigilante who just happened to call himself the Punisher, not the actual character himself.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WELSHCAT,

I have never found MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN "inarticulate", although I acknowledge that he is no RICHARD BURTON, C.B.E.!

His delivery was appropriate to the character, despite his Swedish accent, methought, particularly the exchange @ the police station between THE PUNISHER(TM) & JAKE BERKOWITZ.

I agree that the absence of the skull emblazoned on his chest undermined our Suspension of Disbelief that this man was THE PUNISHER(TM) whom we all know & love.

CYMRU AM BITH!



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor

[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
<B>i think what i liked about garth enises rendition of puni the most was the sick sence of humor he brought to the book. i just hope the new movie has that in there.

"mourge gun fighting 1 0 1, use that fat corpses as shields." </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRIM,

I grok the fullness of the totality! http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor

[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kwick22a:
I think the main problem I've always had with this version of the Punisher, is Dolph Lundgren always sounded a little out of it. I figure it was ment to convey Frank's detachment from the world, but to me it sounded like he was half asleep, stoned, slightly drunk, or some combination of each.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

KWICK,

I understand why you say that.

However, I accepted that MESSRS. DOLPH LUNDGREN & MARK GOLDBLATT had agreed that THE PUNISHER(TM) was a "Dead Man Walking", so it presented no obstacle to my own enjoyment of the film.



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor

[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kwick22a:
I think the main problem I've always had with this version of the Punisher, is Dolph Lundgren always sounded a little out of it. I figure it was ment to convey Frank's detachment from the world, but to me it sounded like he was half asleep, stoned, slightly drunk, or some combination of each.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

KWICK,

I understand why you say that.

However, I accepted that MESSRS. DOLPH LUNDGREN & MARK GOLDBLATT had agreed that THE PUNISHER(TM) was a "Dead Man Walking", so it presented no obstacle to my own enjoyment of the film.



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor

[The Guard]

THE JOKER(TM) was not a Professional Gangster who murdered BRUCE WAYNE'S parents, et cetera. This was a trite cinematic cliche that was even inflicted upon us again in DAREDEVIL(TM), recently.

BATMAN was an experiment. It's that simple. No one knew if BATMAN would be a hit, or if there would be a sequel. So the film had to have a story that wrapped it all up if that was the case. How better to wrap it all up than to combine The Joker and the murder of Bruce's parents?

THE BATMAN(TM) would not deploy missiles & machine guns on the streets of Gotham City, taking out innocent civilians in his efforts to kill known criminals, not even THE JOKER(TM), himself!

Tim Burton's Batman did. He had to. Or he would have been killed. You don't dodge bullets in the world of Burton's Batman. It was an element of the earliest Batman stories that Sam Hamm added to his characterization.

MR. ALFRED PENNYWORTH would never divulge THE BATMAN'S(TM) secret identity to another human being, let alone bring them into THE BATCAVE(TM) without the latter's express consent that he do so.

Vicki knew. It's clear that she knew long before she got into the cave. Odds are she went to Alfred and said "I know Bruce is Batman. Take me to him or I'll tell the world."

THE BATMAN(TM) would not wear a costume that would prevent him from even moving properly, lest he find himself bested in a fight when outnumbered by criminals who were superior H2H combatants,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>as was the case in the belfry

He got beat up in the belfry because he'd just been a fairly serious air crash. Did you happen to notice all the blood dripping off him? The burns? The fact that he's limping and can barely walk in the cathedral?

[quote]in the alley when he rescued VICKI VALE by deploying his pistol to shoot a line.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He kicked The Joker's henchmen's asses in the alleyway, including the swordsman. None of those goons had a chance, and Batman displayed some decent martial arts.

[brokenstatue2001]

I liked the original Punisher movie, and I thought it was very true to the character of the Punisher.
I never really liked the fact that the huge skull was never on his shirt, but other than that, I can pretty much agree with the rest of the movie.
The part about him saving the mob's children is very true, since he believes the guilty are to be punished, and the kids are innocents, caught up in all of it. I thought that would be considered part of Punisher's character development.

[CGINEZ]

Bring back the white girl and asian girl form the first Punisher, they kicked some butt. But I do hope this Punisher is alot better then the first one, it was missing the skull on the shirt for sure.

[Soccerdude]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zombie_new_wave:
<B>

The movie--like X-Men--opened well and then just fell apart by weakoning the character.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ummmmmmmmm......................


zombie,i'm takin u through this slowly.how did XMEN fall apart?it was head and shoulders above punisher.i thought the whole film was good.however,there weresome bad parts in the film,but not like punisher,which i have to say had it's moments.

it's very very very illegal to diss XMEN like this where i'm from.i now shall PUNISH u.

[MALCOLMXERXES]

THE GUARD,

We shall have to agree to disagree about TB'S BATMAN(TM).

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BROKENSTATUE2001,

I grok the fullness of the totality, particularly concerning the skull & the children!

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CGINEZ,

It's not possible to bring the TANAKA women back because THE PUNISHER(TM) dispatched them both in 1989. http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/wink.gif

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SOCCERDUDE,

I find that now I have finished viewing X-MEN 1.5(TM), I find more to like in the film than ever before.

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"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor
MALCOLMXERXES.COM (http://www.a1000m.com/BB/viewtopic.php?t=65)
The MX-Files (http://www.geocities.com/malcolmxerxes/index.html)