perfect Punisher Movie

[GRIM]

writer: garth ennis
director: Brian Helgeland (payback)
punisher: mel gibson. (think payback.)
ma gucci: ellen burstyn
the russian: YOU DECIDE I CANT!

story: following garth enises first run on the comic. hears the great thin about that, you can pretty much follow it to a tea, this is one comic book story, thats beliveable, and sick. very sick. its why i loved it. ofcourse there will be an explanation as to the origins of the punisher, but that will be he first 15 miniuets of the film. start it off very grim folks. vietnam vet, hardboiled, settles down with a family in 1980. boom! family dead. give the old 20 years later deal, hears how it will go.

open with family, in the park, new york state. frank castle is a cop. not big time. he did a tour in vietnam, and was awarded the congressional medal of honer for saving is platoon. what they ofcourse didnt anounce was how he had killed over 30 viatneese by himself. this is all shown by frank castle telling his story, and while we watch his kida playing. he continues, and ofcourse his kids and wife get shot dead. now 20 years later
we cut to a tv screen, a special is on, who is the punisher? with clips of new fottage taking place over the last 20 years. the tv belongs to an anoynomous scum bag, BOOM! dead scum bag, we view his face now, not seeing who has shot him. then someone approaches him, all we see is the scull, that very important skull. annnnnnnnnd title shot!
basically the film will follow the garth enis 12 part story line, but it will be narrated by frank, who is telling the story to a prison psychologist. a few things will probably be cut out, for example the outher punisher wannabes. but i definalty want the russian!

so opinans, dont be afraid to tell me im wrong. course im not, but hey if you wanna be stupid. (j/k i welcome all opinans, but be nice, im fragile.)

[The Comix Kid]

I like that...especially the casting of Ellem Burstyn as Ma Gucci (I LOVED her in "Requiem For A Dream")


Wouldn't go with Mel Gibson as The Punisher, though. My pick would be Matt Shulze. (Blade, Blade II, The Fats and The Furious, The Transporter)

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Schulze,%20Matt


But, most likely they will go with a more well-known actor. He's just who I could see in the role.

[GRIM]

naw naw naw, that guy would be bad. with my plot. frank is a vietnam vet, mel is just the right age, and have you seen payback? man he is perfect. but i doubt he would do it. then again, he did do beyond thunder dome.

[DrZaius]

Someone on these boards mention Vinnie Jones (Lock,Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, Snatch) as the Russian. I think he would be good. Big lumbering, and twistedly funny.

Thanks,
Dr.Z

[GRIM]

yo DR Z thanks, the guy from LSaTSB! It's been tearing me apart all freekin week trying to determine a guy to play him. that does it. good choice mate.

[themanwithoutfear]

i would go back to dolph lundgren. laugh all you want i don't care. he captured frank perfect. any TRUE punisher fan would know it.
look at his eyes. he perfectly captured franks sorrow in his eyes. the pain. the depression. the loss. frank isn't complete without his family. he's empty inside. you got that from dolph.
also frank dosen't care. he kills criminals in a twisted revenge, and deep down he knows what he is doing is good, but all he wants is his family. if he takes some criminals off the street, good, but if one gets lucky and kills him then he gets to be with his family again.( think the movie gladiator)this was perfectly captured in the scene where the mob boss's kid picks up a gun and say's he's going to kill frank and frank gets down on one knee and puts the barrell to his head and tells him to go ahead and pull the trigger.
i honestly don't understand how punisher is a BAD movie. i agree that it wasn't the best but it was actually pretty good. ( the yakuza thing and kidnapping kids angle blew but other then that...great)
i like the idea of frank being a cop. it makes more sense then having him be whacked out vietnam vet who watched his family get killed.
making him a cop updates him. gives a good reason as to why his family got killed. his accsess to his arsenel. his knoweledge of crime.( ie, mafia familys, hoods,informants, etc.) it's just a good idea plain and simple.

so i think dolph lundgren would still make an amazing punisher( and with better material to work with too!)
but the only person other then dolph to play punisher for me would be henry rollins.
yup henry rollins would make a great punisher.

[GRIM]

i so disagree with you. and on your assesment of what is a TRUE punisher fan. can you tell me how many comics i gotta own to get into your exclusive little club? well if it is filled with wankers like you, ide rather join the ranks of the pok e mon fan club. (dont worry about it guy, i talk like that to everyone. totally not serious.)
but i stick by with my mel gibson for frank. only because my movie concernes garth ennis's portayal of mr castle. which is less dark and moody, but more sick and twisted with some drama. payback, thats the movie which punisher should be built on. one man, many guns. takes out the mob. not out of the need for money, but for the princeable of the thing you see. frank castle is a socio path. plane and simple. i think has no desire to go back to his family. out of guilt. but morals dont even factor into it anymore. just what needs to be done. remember, he had a chance at heaven. he blew it off for the sake of killing more crooks. this is the punisher i want.

[themanwithoutfear]

i like payback. the idea of gibson playing punisher is alright, i just think dolph lundgren or henry rollins would be good choices. also i see mel playing marv in a sin city film. payback just seemed more like sin city then punisher.

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
naw naw naw, that guy would be bad. with my plot. frank is a vietnam vet, mel is just the right age, and have you seen payback? man he is perfect. but i doubt he would do it. then again, he did do beyond thunder dome. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Grimster!
Yes, I agree with you that he was great in "Payback", and he's a terrific actor in most ANYTHING he does, but (and maybe I shouldn't even be speaking on this, I've never really gotten into Punisher), isn't Frank supposed to be a LOT larger then Mel Gibson. I agree that Dolph Lundgren was a terrific choice for the part, due to the SIZE of the guy, but for a NEW punisher film, I don't know if I'd want to go back to THAT well again. The film didn't do well when it first came out, because it was deemed just TOO violent at that time, and it got socked because of that. It went straight to video as a result, and never saw the light of the Multiplexes. Grim, don't you think an actor with more physical SIZE and weight would be more appropriate? Again, I might be wrong about this, however I DO agree that Mel's a terrific actor.

[themanwithoutfear]

hey man, you want an actor with size? i said it twice and i'll say it again...HENRY ROLLINS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by themanwithoutfear:
hey man, you want an actor with size? i said it twice and i'll say it again...HENRY ROLLINS!!!!!!!!!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mr. Without!
And, sorry that I didn't say it before...... that actually is a REAL good choice! Rollin's also knows how to connect to the pain and loss aspect of this character as well, he's always writing songs or poems about pain and such, so, yes, I think that's a really good choice! Good one for you, sir!

[GRIM]

AGE! have you people considerd age! maybe in your little punishser movie would rollins or dolph work. but not in mine. read the treatment. VIETNAM VET. mel is the perect age, around 55. but still kickin ass. dont talk to me about size either, cuz tom cruise is 5"4, and they do enough tricks to make him look taller.

i love rollins. big black flag fan. but i gotta say the guy just dosent do it for me as frank. to bulky for one, and to full of rage. frank is stone cold. ok so we are never going to agree on it i suppose. im going to go vomit now.

[D.K.HOOD]

I'm not sure about this but I thought that Marvel got rid of the Vietnam Vet part of his origin when he went to Marvel Knights.

[norrinraad]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D.K.HOOD:
I'm not sure about this but I thought that Marvel got rid of the Vietnam Vet part of his origin when he went to Marvel Knights.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Building on this, it seems that Marvel wants the movie versions of its characters to follow the Ultimate model. In Ultimate continuity Frank Castle was a cop who ratted out his dirty partners. In retaliation they killed his family so he systematically went around murdering them, as well as crooks who he felt the justice system did not adequately deal with. If they follow this template, Frank does not have to be a Vet. He could be a guy in his early 30s, definitely old enough to have a wife and a couple of kids. This treatment opens up alot of possible casting choices.

[DrZaius]

The regular Marvel Knights Punisher is still a Vietnam vet. The Punisher that's part of the Ultimate Universe was introduced in Bendis's Ultimate team book. He's not a Vietnam Vet. He's an ex-cop.

Thanks,
Dr.Z

[themanwithoutfear]

see , like i said before, the movie comes through! ( cuz frank was a cop)
but yes, like i said before, the nam vet thing closes alot of doors for the charecter.( i like what ennis is doing but here me out first) how long ago was nam? so frank would be in the 55 or so age range and how good does a 40- 50 someodd year old man move? not as good as say a 30 something year old man.
and it dosen't matter how hard an old man " stays in shape". time takes it's toll on the body. especially in franks " line of work".
the same can be said of a 30+ man but it's more believable.
and also like i said the cop angle opens more doors. a perfect reason for his family to die, etc.

and some one said that they think frank has no want to go back to his family. thats wrong. saying frank dosen't want to go back trivializes the whole reason he's doing this.
revenge. that person is pretty much saying they don't matter and were only there as a reason for him to become the punisher.
the charecter of frank castle is ALOT more inticate then a man with guns who kills bad guys.

[D.K.HOOD]

Well I can think of one way to get around the age thing. Just do a story based in the era that he was most popular in: The 80's.

[GRIM]

jesus you people are closed minded. dont you understand that frank doesnt have to be young to be kickass?! besides, wee not talking sixties here, more like mid fifties, still black hair with a little grey, good physical shape, altlest good enough to launch a basooka in youre face. besides all that, vietnam would play a sinifigent role in his socio pathic behavior. granted, seeing your wife and kids get blown to bits in front of you would set alot of police ofiicers on a path of violence. however that over all mentality of an officer would eventually provail, and the guy would shoot himself. Frank, or rather my Frank. the one writtin in marvel nights, kills no longer to avenge his family, but rather for the sake of killing.

now a question: did anybody actually read my little treatment way up there?

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
<B>AGE! have you people considerd age! maybe in your little punishser movie would rollins or dolph work. but not in mine. read the treatment. VIETNAM VET. mel is the perect age, around 55. but still kickin ass. dont talk to me about size either, cuz tom cruise is 5"4, and they do enough tricks to make him look taller.

Mel Gibson is only in his mid 40's GRIM (46, I believe), and you are right, size dosen't really matter in this instance, I guess. But Gibson is someone, first of all, that would take 20 million dollars to secure his work, and I don't think he is willing to work on another comic styeld character (he's already going to be doing another "Road Warrior" film). I can remember his response when he was asked if he wanted the role of James Bond, he felt the character was "boring".

i love rollins. big black flag fan. but i gotta say the guy just dosent do it for me as frank. to bulky for one, and to full of rage. frank is stone cold. ok so we are never going to agree on it i suppose. im going to go vomit now. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bigkid:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OOPS! I did something wrong, I guess! LOL! I was only trying to get the part of Grim's quote where he says that thing about Gibson being the perfect AGE for the Punisher. Grim: Mel is only in his mid 40's, (46, I believe), and, I know that there are a LOT of thing's that you can make up with for lack of SIZE, but just keep this in perspective---- Mel Gibson turned down the James Bond franchise because he felt that the character was "boring". Plus, he's doing ANOTHER "Road Warrior" film, soon, so another comic based character for him just MIGHT not be on his calender. It takes 20 million bucks to secure Mr. Gibson nowadays to a film, so in order to get his services, you have to think about THAT. Plus, to put him in the role of the Punisher, you have to understand and be aware that the character of Max from the Road Warrior, was ALSO a stone cold dead man walking as well, due to the pain of THAT character losing his family..... so I doubt highly that Gibson would want to be repeating the same kind of character after playing a more popular figure
(Mad Max), in pop culture than The Punisher, let's face it.

[D.K.HOOD]

Alright forget the age thing. Mel Gibson just doesn't have the physical stature to pull of the Punisher. I always thought he would have made a good Wolverine because he's so short and can play psycho(Lethal Weapon) he would not be the Punisher. And that guy that Tim Bradstreet uses on his covers is too damn small also. Plus, even if Mel's hair was dyed black I still don't think he would look even remotely like an Italian-American. If you're so concerned about his roots as a Veteran then you should care just as much about that too.

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D.K.HOOD:
<B>Alright forget the age thing. Mel Gibson just doesn't have the physical stature to pull of the Punisher. I always thought he would have made a good Wolverine because he's so short and can play psycho(Lethal Weapon) he would not be the Punisher. And that guy that Tim Bradstreet uses on his covers is too damn small also. Plus, even if Mel's hair was dyed black I still don't think he would look even remotely like an Italian-American. If you're so concerned about his roots as a Veteran then you should care just as much about that too.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

D.K.----- ya don't say??
See, this shows you all how little that I DO know of this comic.... I wasn't aware that The Punisher is supposed to be of Italian descent. Maybe I should stop throwing my 2 cents into this pot, I'm not THAT up on this book. Well, if you are going to go for a Punisher based on an ETHNIC look, you also have to keep in mind that they cast Jennifer Garner in the role that SO many fanboy's on this site felt should have gone to a more "Mediteranian" type... and look how THAT worked out: Fine!

How about a REAL way out there kind of thought for a casting? Well, only because he's not a MAJOR star: Francesco Quinn (Anthony's son)? He's got a GREAT ethnic look, plus, he's a bruiser'ish sorta looking guy. He's got a decent pair of acting chops..... and as far as being physically imposing, I think he fits in there.... I know this is NOT going to be the choice of the majority here (particularly with Mr. Grim)....... but,since we are all playing a game of "what if's" anyway...... well...... WHAT IF?? Please....... SHARE!

[GRIM]

im fairly certain mel is in his fities. and hight im not worried about. other wise tom cruise wouldnt have any other parts. however i will execpt that there is others who would bett play the part. but i like mel, he is just a damn good actor. ok then, assuming punisher should be around fiftie something (marvel nights punisher folks) who else could play frank castle.

[Menace]

The internet, which you all seem to have access to, is full of resources. One fantastic resource, related to actors and movies, is the internet movie database: www.imdb.com. (http://www.imdb.com.) So, instead of speculating about Mel Gibson's age, let's look it up... shall we?
http://us.imdb.com/Name?Gibson,+Mel

Mr. Gibson was born on January 3, 1956. It is currently March 20, 2003... do the math... Mel turned 47 on January 3. I don't know about you, but I'm glad that's cleared up.

I like handstands. I like 'em quite a bit. But naked? I'm just not sure about naked handstands. All the flopping... it could get ugly.

[This message has been edited by Menace (edited 03-20-2003).]

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Menace:
<B>The internet, which you all seem to have access to, is full of resources. One fantastic resource, related to actors and movies, is the internet movie database: www.imdb.com. (http://www.imdb.com.) So, instead of speculating about Mel Gibson's age, let's look it up... shall we?
http://us.imdb.com/Name?Gibson,+Mel

Mr. Gibson was born on January 3, 1956. It is currently March 20, 2003... do the math... Mel turned 47 on January 3. I don't know about you, but I'm glad that's cleared up.

I like handstands. I like 'em quite a bit. But naked? I'm just not sure about naked handstands. All the flopping... it could get ugly.

[This message has been edited by Menace (edited 03-20-2003).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mr. Me NA chee!!
Thanks for clearing that up for us. Seriously, I was just about to hit the "reply with quote" button on Grim's answer when I saw your's. As for GRIM wanting to put Mel Gibson in the role, the actual choice of Mel I don't have a problem with at all. Hey, listen, if people on this site can take me for the last year and a half railing on and on about how they should've cast Viggo Mortensen in the role of DAREDEVIL, we certainly can keep checking out GRIM'S choice for Punisher!

Share, y'all!

[GRIM]

ok menace, he is 47, i hope it feels so good to be right. i hope it feels so good you dance around in the street, shouting the fact that you are right once again. realy i wish you friggin well! (its been a tough day) but seriosuley, ok no mel, fine. but no one has come up with a joice for punisher that i like yet. dolph is a shotty actor, and i just dont think he has the ability, maybe the look but not the ability. and rollins is bad ass on an entirley differnet level, although i would like to see him as a superhero. im thinking lobo might suit him fine. he has the tatoos, slap a wig and paint on him, you got youreself a bad mother fragger.

[D.K.HOOD]

Ok, instead of preaching about who shouldn't play The Punisher I'm going to give you my pick instead. Here he is,
http://www.pamzylove.com/sopranos/all.jpg

His name is Federico Castelluccio and he plays Furio on the Sopranos. You can read his bio here: http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/cast/cast_castelluccio.shtml

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D.K.HOOD:
<B>Ok, instead of preaching about who shouldn't play The Punisher I'm going to give you my pick instead. Here he is,
http://www.pamzylove.com/sopranos/all.jpg

His name is Federico Castelluccio and he plays Furio on the Sopranos. You can read his bio here: http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/cast/cast_castelluccio.shtml </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

D.K.!
Holy Shit! I would have NEVER thought of HIM..... that's not a bad choice at all. I live in NY, and I saw that guy up close on the street one day..... he's a pretty big dude, actually, I think he has the physical attributes that you would need for Frank Castle, AND, he's a pretty damn good actor. Grim, you've gotta like THIS choice, man! What did anybody think of MY choice of Francesco Quinn?
Please......SHARE!

[imported_StormShadow]

I am really surprised in all of the posts on here nobody has mentioned that Mel Gibson has really made a Punisher movie allready. IT WAS MAD MAX!! Almost the exact same origin. Family get's killed in the crossfire of a gang so he goes out and exacts his revenge. But after his revenge is done he is not done, he keeps going on untill he finally is killed off. And then watch the Road Warrior and say that it's not Frank!

[GRIM]

@storm shadow; FINALLY some friggin suport on the matter.
@ DK hood.
you win. i dont get HBO so i havent watched the sapranos. but you win. he is definatly it. no friggin question.

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StormShadow:
I am really surprised in all of the posts on here nobody has mentioned that Mel Gibson has really made a Punisher movie allready. IT WAS MAD MAX!! Almost the exact same origin. Family get's killed in the crossfire of a gang so he goes out and exacts his revenge. But after his revenge is done he is not done, he keeps going on untill he finally is killed off. And then watch the Road Warrior and say that it's not Frank!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Storm Shadow!
Umm.... I DID... actually..... make this very statement.... if you scroll upwards when you see this post, go back to my posting's on the 19th, I believe it was (of March), and you'll see that I made this very point.

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
<B>@storm shadow; FINALLY some friggin suport on the matter.
@ DK hood.
you win. i dont get HBO so i havent watched the sapranos. but you win. he is definatly it. no friggin question. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aw you folded too soon! Stormshadow opened up my eyes to Mel Gibson. LOL! Now that I remember Mad Max and Road Warrior I'm not so much against Mel. Still, I really like my choice and he fits the look and the attitude down pact.

Mr. BigKid! I checked out your choice(Francesco Quinn). I have to see him kick some butt and bulk up a bit before I can picture him as Frank. However, he's got his daddy's looks only his more lean, so I wouldn't mind seeing him take on a hero role like Iron Man. He's got that suave Tony Stark thing going.

[GRIM]

i gues im not a punisher purist realy, cuz i was never realy that into him until garth ennis took the book over. and the grit he presented reminded me alot of payback. and now that i think about it, the orignal mad max.
but now that ive seen DK's choice. oh man. bloddy perfect. ofcourse i doubt they (them the powers that be if you will) will choose anyone remotley good for the role. so i should just shut my friggin mouth and find a gun and take out some hollywood producers.

[Bigkid]

I guess this is going to leave our friend Mr. Grim somewhat.. well........ GRIM. You all have probably seen by now that Thomas Jane has been picked to portray The Punisher. Personally, I don't think he's a bad choice, the guy IS an amazing actor (amongst his other credits, he portrayed Mickey Mantle in *61), he's one of these guy's that can BECOME the character that he is portraying. He has about the same physical appearance that Mel Gibson has, he's not what you would call a BIG guy, but let me tell you something fans, this is the type of actor that you want playing Frank. He will literally BECOME The Punisher before your eyes, TRUST me when I say this. GRIM........ believe me pal....... YOU HAVE NOTHING TO GET ANGRY ABOUT, TRUST ME!

[Golden Falcon]

Thomas Jnae was my pick for Superman but THE PUNISHER - all I can say is WOW. This should prove to be a good franchise for him.

[GRIM]

tohmas jane? mmmmmmm im not sure. he is not the worst pic. but come one. they could have done better. alot better. although, he looks like hed make a good CA, im just not sure about him being punisher. then agian, so what if he isnt the perfect joice. dye his hair black, give him ess de lauters, "grit" makeup and you got a good looking punisher. i just hope they take some freekin hints from the last movie and slap a big white skull on his costume. its the only way to go.


KILLER!

[norrinraad]

They have to have the Skull on his chest. There are some things that just can't be tampered with and that's one of them. This guy looks pretty young, I guess they won't be pursuing the Viet Nam classic origin. I personally don't mind him being a cop, I think it works pretty well.

[GRIM]

as i understand it frank was a cop in the original too, cop/vietnam vet. lotta vets get into the force, or corrections. stuff like that.

[Bigkid]

To make him appear old enough to have been a Vietnam vet, what they may do is make this a period piece, and set it in the early 80's, perhaps? Or they may just go the route of making him a cop who's out to avenge his murdered family in the present. Anyway you slice it, I think it's a great choice, Thomas Jane, he's good, he'll be alright as The Punisher.

[GRIM]

all i gotta say is thank god is not loph lundren. he stinks, an i dont like em!

[Essex]

Artisan has stated that Frank will be an FBI undercover agent and former special forces operative. He is planning on moving into a desk job so he can enjoy a more quiet life with his family when his wife and children are murdered, presumbably due to something Frank did in his past.

Sounds cool. Different, but definitely interesting. Kinda Jack Bauer meets Frank Castle.

------------------
"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Essex:
<B>Artisan has stated that Frank will be an FBI undercover agent and former special forces operative. He is planning on moving into a desk job so he can enjoy a more quiet life with his family when his wife and children are murdered, presumbably due to something Frank did in his past.

Sounds cool. Different, but definitely interesting. Kinda Jack Bauer meets Frank Castle.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I read the latest on this myself today...... I think it sounds great! I really like Thomas Jane, I think he's going to do EXACTLY what they said that he's going to do: really give the character of The Punisher the depth and intelligence that this project needs to have given to the character..... he's a very good character actor, and it's well worth the choice, even though he's not a guaranteed "money in the bank" name star, I think people will still want to see the project...... and, it's like GRIM stated.....as long as it's NOT Dolph Lundgren! EEECH!

[Essex]

I think it's also great that they stated the film was expected to have the same feel as some other classic revenge films, like Dirty Harry.

------------------
"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[tetsuokanata]

I was a huge Punisher fan back in my early teens I remember trading my buddy all of my Batmans (including the Mcfarlane pencilled one's!) for Punisher #1-25, which had just come out recently. I loved the character, not only for his grittiness, but his extreme intelligence in weapons, computers ect. of course he had microchip to help him out (is he in the movie?) Anyways for this movie I think that the casting is good, I hated the first punisher movie. Thomas jane is a good actor and can pull of the gritiness, but please dont make a blonde punisher (dye his hair), that would be terrible. I also like the whole FBI twist as well for Frank Castle, it will make his extreme intelligence more believable. The sucess of the Punisher books was not just his ability with weapons but his detective and forensic skills as well. I hope that the script intigrates this aspect to the fullest, in a believable manner, and I think they are on the right track with the whole FBI agent stuff. Man isnt it an awsome time to be a comic fan, seeing all these movies come out is great. I can't wait for the Hulk and now I have the Punisher to look forward to!

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Essex:
<B>I think it's also great that they stated the film was expected to have the same feel as some other classic revenge films, like Dirty Harry.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mr. E!
Yes, I like the idea myself. I find that the grittiness of those films have sort of left us, and I feel that this Punisher will usher in a whole new sort of "revenge" styled filmmaking, with The Punisher being someone that EVERYONE can sort of relate to. It's going to be a good one, for sure!

[D.K.HOOD]

Please let this movie be rated R, please please pretty pretty please(begging to Avi Arad).

[Essex]

Artisan has stated in absolute certainty that Punisher WILL be rated R!

------------------
"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Essex:
<B>Artisan has stated in absolute certainty that Punisher WILL be rated R!

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Essex. I'm surprised that they are trying to put together a teaser trailer so soon. With the right direction this could be one of Marvels best movies. Hopefully!

[WC]

While I'm not really a fan of the Punisher and thus it doesn't really bother me who plays him, I would've preferred that Thomas Jane was reserved for a character like Captain America, simply because he seems, prima facie, more suited to him in looks and personality.

As for the comparison with Dirty Harry, maybe another one of Clint Eastwood's films, High Plains Drifter might be closer in spirit, as Harry Callaghan wasn't quite a vigilante and the mysterious stranger in HPD, although not strictly a vigilante, was definitely more of a killer. Of course, God forbid, we could go and compare the Punisher to the Death Wish movies with Charles Bronson but the sooner we dispense with that analogy the better, as most of Bronson's films seem basically the same as each other!

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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[GRIM]

ol on just a miniut here eh. frank is going to be findign redemption? oh sweet jesus i can see it already, frank finaaly kills the last gangster responsible, filled with bullet it holes, he goes to shop and pics up a navy hat, goes to a factory where some girl he met 3 scenes ago works, pics her up in his arms, puts the navy hat on her head, and stolls out with everybody clapping. all to "going to lift you up where you belong"

or jesus even worse, anything with friggin enya!

[GRIM]

hey welshcat, if you liked tommy jane for the CAP, take a look at aron eckhart, looks just like him, with a much more superheroic chin.

about my last post. just making funny kids, dont get your panties in a twist. but seriosuly, im boycotting this film if it's not R. simple as that. in comics, you can fake curse to get the grit of the street across. (@#$%) but you cant in a freekin movie. its not going to be beliveable if the language from these gangsters is anything less than a page from the sapranoes dictionary. aside from that, vilolence is a givin, but thers no need to make it bloddier than need be. and nudity, you would have to try to fit that in there. but still this movie has R writtin all over it, beside that, the content, without cursing, without gore, is adult. not soemthing you need to be sending you thirteen year old kid to see.

[Bigkid]

Oh, I didn't think there'd be any question that this was going to be an "R". As a matter of fact, the reason that the original Punisher film didn't get seen by many,was because that one was deemed TOO violent, if you can believe it. Maybe it should have been deemed too BAD, with Dolph Lundgren at the lead!

[GRIM]

i was able to handle the fact that there were kids seeing spiderman all over the place, lookin at me, crying, telling there moms "mommy that man is scary." i was cool ya know, i was like, "ok, this is a movie for kids too, these guys are future fans, its quality stuff, good lessons and everything, so i wont tell thier mothers its not to late to get an abortion."

but i swaer if i hear one snot nozed little human larva, crying because of the big loud bang sound coming from frank's huge gun, or one fat mother complaining that the poor sap at the box office didnt warn her that this movie wasnt going to be appropriete for her little fat ass mcdonals loving five year old, im going to shoot up some f!@#ing theatres!

[WC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
<B>hey welshcat, if you liked tommy jane for the CAP, take a look at aron eckhart, looks just like him, with a much more superheroic chin.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who is he and what has he played in?

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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[Flinch]

Hello guys, long time no see

I`ve just heard about Thomas Jane. I must admit, i don`t get it.

If it were me, i would have gone with Ray Liotta from the fantasticly grim cool movie "Narc".

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The Hills are Alive...with the Sound of Muuusic!!! La La La

[norrinraad]

Ray Liotta would have been my first choice as well, but I'm keeping an open mind about this Jane guy. Neither Hugh Jackman nor Tobey were not "obvious" choices for their characters but I think most people would agree that there are both examples of successful casting. As long as they avoid that storyline where Frank gets killed and comes back to Earth with the powers of an angel http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/rolleyes.gif this could be good.

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by norrinraad:
Ray Liotta would have been my first choice as well, but I'm keeping an open mind about this Jane guy. Neither Hugh Jackman nor Tobey were not "obvious" choices for their characters but I think most people would agree that there are both examples of successful casting. As long as they avoid that storyline where Frank gets killed and comes back to Earth with the powers of an angel http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/rolleyes.gif this could be good.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, Noble Norin!
Yes, that's a very good point. Hey, listen, this guy could have been signed on to another film (Jane0, and might have exploded in another film, and the Producer's could have NEVER lived it down to get him when they could have afforded him..... I really think that he's going to be a terrific choice...... I can understand the naysayer's actually, but I agree with the fact that other "unknowns" have gotten the nod before, and look what it did for their projects? I think that the same thing will be said, when all is said and done, about Eric Bana in HULK.

[GRIM]

aron eckhart was in that new flick, the core. im guessing he's the lead cuz he a damn arian posterboy.

[imported_Thom]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by norrinraad:
Ray Liotta would have been my first choice as well...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think Ray Liotta is good lead actor material. Granted, he's obviously lead actor material, but I don't think he's GOOD at it.

Did anybody even see Narc? I sure didn't. I saw the previews and just went "eww". Were I not a comics fan and were he cast as Punisher, I'd probably do the same thing.

Liotta's fine as an actor, but I feel he gets annoying in large doses. Better to keep him in smaller roles, like having Lector eat his brains out and stuff.

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Welshcat:
<B> Who is he and what has he played in?

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Welshy!
Aaron Ekhardt made his screen debut in Neil LaBute's "In the Company of Men"... from there he went on to "Any Given Sunday" as one of Al Pacino's Assistant Coaches, but he really turned head's as Julia Roberts' boyfriend in "Erin Brokavitch". I probably misspelled that, didn't I?? Anyway, that's his filmography, he's also currently the lead in the Sci-Fi film, "The Core".

[Flinch]

Well the thing is Thom, the Punisher is not meant to be a pretty boy.

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The Hills are Alive...with the Sound of Muuusic!!! La La La

[WC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flinch:
<B>Well the thing is Thom, the Punisher is not meant to be a pretty boy.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that addressed to Thom of Comics2Film infamy, or to Thom of Mr Jane infamy? Because now that you mention it, Mr Jane, although rugged in appearance, might not look quite mean and disturbed enough to be the Punisher, especially if he looks more like a candidate for Captain America.

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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[Flinch]

Right on

[norrinraad]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thom:
Did anybody even see Narc? I sure didn't. I saw the previews and just went "eww". Were I not a comics fan and were he cast as Punisher, I'd probably do the same thing. Better to keep him in smaller roles, like having Lector eat his brains out and stuff.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this, Thom, is exactly why he should be The Punisher! Look at the reaction he got out of you, just from his screen presence! Frank needs ot be one scary SOB, a guy you would be teriified of if you saw him approaching you on the street. Not a big rugged dude who you think is gonna kick your ass, but a monster who you will run screaming from, knowing he's gonna kill you in the most gruesome, painful way imaginable (if you're a crook, of course). This Jane guy looks a little too benign to be Castle, but like I said, I'm keeping an open mind in the happy event that he may just surprise us all!

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by norrinraad:
And this, Thom, is exactly why he should be The Punisher! Look at the reaction he got out of you, just from his screen presence! Frank needs ot be one scary SOB, a guy you would be teriified of if you saw him approaching you on the street. Not a big rugged dude who you think is gonna kick your ass, but a monster who you will run screaming from, knowing he's gonna kill you in the most gruesome, painful way imaginable (if you're a crook, of course). This Jane guy looks a little too benign to be Castle, but like I said, I'm keeping an open mind in the happy event that he may just surprise us all! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, Noble Norin!
Where I DO believe Ray Liotta wouldn't be a bad choice for Castle, I think one of the great thing's ABOUT Thomas Jane, is that you wouldn't BE frightened of this guy coming down the street, I think that's probably why they made his character in the upcoming new version of The Punisher someone who's NOT as forbodding as say, someone like Liotta. It's a journey that we are going to be taken on, to see how this guy goes into, shall we say, a "downward spiral"...... and THAT is why I like the choice of Jane as Frank Castle.... I'm telling you, you WILL see, before your eye's, how this guy will suddenly BECOME the character. I'm sold already, and I haven't seen one frame shot..... but, that's me! Can't speak for you all! I DO like Liotta, but I think this choice of Thomas Jane is terrific (you know, plus, we don't know if they OFFERED this role already to him and he turned it down).

[GRIM]

tru dat bigkid. dru dat.

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
tru dat bigkid. dru dat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Grimster!

Tanks! Tanks alot!

[WC]

What if Thom Jane played in a Tarzan movie? Would he say "Me Tarzan, Me Jane"? http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif

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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[imported_StormShadow]

I think the reason you aren't frightened of Thomas Jane is because you haven't seen him as the Punisher. I think once they dye the hair black, slick it back, make him a bit pale, darken the eyes he will be Frank. Because as of yet we have only seen him as the dashing all american good guy. We haven't had the chance to see him be the monster that is Frank. I think if they cast him as the punisher without him being an obvious choice, then he really must be good.

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StormShadow:
I think the reason you aren't frightened of Thomas Jane is because you haven't seen him as the Punisher. I think once they dye the hair black, slick it back, make him a bit pale, darken the eyes he will be Frank. Because as of yet we have only seen him as the dashing all american good guy. We haven't had the chance to see him be the monster that is Frank. I think if they cast him as the punisher without him being an obvious choice, then he really must be good.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, we may even see Jane maybe take on a different look to The Punisher.... maybe even do what Colin Farrell did in DAREDEVIL, you know.... no costume, but maybe he shaves his head, maybe he's got an eye patch.... we don't even know as yet what the costume & production design people are going to give us and what's in store for us for this version of The Punisher. But I DO agree with the StormShadow..... once we get to see his transformation, for whatever reason's they give for transforming Thomas Jane into maybe a different look for The Punisher, we'll be convinced, I'm sure (or, maybe they will just go with the traditional ORIGINAL way that Frank was supposed to look).

[D.K.HOOD]

They've got to do the skull on his chest this time. I don't care if they tatoo him or paint it on a bullet-proof vest, just have it in the movie.

[WC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D.K.HOOD:
They've got to do the skull on his chest this time. I don't care if they tatoo him or paint it on a bullet-proof vest, just have it in the movie. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What if it's one of "those skull T-shirts" he just happens to be wearing, bought from a shop somewhere - obviously based on the Punisher, but with most wearers little suspecting the source?

You can just tell he won't end up wearing the Skull costume for the whole movie and will probably do the finale in some other Matrixy or leather outfit just to be different.

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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[Essex]

Does anybody remember the Punisher-style bullet-proof vest that Ecko put out a couple years ago? It was the BP vest with a mess overlay of the classic skull logo. Looked pretty cool and something similar could surely be incorporated into the movie.

------------------
"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[Bigkid]

However which way they decide to go on this, I think, YES, definately, the skull has to be shown. I'm sure that it IS going to be that way also. I'm not as familiar with this character as the rest of you lot are, but I will say, that I DO think if anything, the skull DOES have to somehow get incorporated into it.... or there are going to be a LOT of disgruntled fans of this series, I can tell you!

[WC]

Well if the skull isn't shown, that's 2 movies in which they'll have opted for a different costume because they thought it looked cooler or because they wanted to do their own thing - a Jane-no-skull update and a Lundgren-no-skill original. Maybe they'll get it right 3rd time round if it's eventually remade sometime in the future?

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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[Bigkid]

Well, if Ari Arad is one of the Producer's on this (I think he is, right)? I'm sure that he will have alot of influence on the type of costume design that should go into this.... he did a pretty darn good job with his opinion's on both Spider-Man and DAREDEVIL.... now, it remains to be seen what he come's up with in HULK, but I think that Arad like's trying, as much as is possible, to keep some aspects of the ORIGINAL comic strip intact. So I'm thinking that he will indeed have a good amount of input into this decision. Anyone agree, disagee? I know that there are some here who've not really liked Ari Arad all that much, so Please.......SHARE!

[GRIM]

look, if the past two succesful marvel flicks have taught the movie makers anything, its that people wanna see the costume done as simular as possilbe to the comic. x men didnt because they all wore ridiculus spandex, but hey, the comic changed more for the movie didnt it? but in the case of punisher, the costume he wears, is not a costume, (especialy in the lastest version) but compleatey usefull wardrobe for bashing the badguys. the skull serves as both a distraction, and a calling card. like batman, it is uses to scare the crooks into making a mythos of him. they are after all, a superstitious cowardley lot eh?

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
they are after all, a superstitious cowardley lot eh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Canadian Batman Ladies and Gentlemen. jk

Your absolutely right about the calling card. How else are you supposed to let the rest of the underworld know that its one man haunting them and not some secret task force. Criminals aren't afraid of cops, but a vengeful spirit is something different.

[norrinraad]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Essex:
Does anybody remember the Punisher-style bullet-proof vest that Ecko put out a couple years ago? It was the BP vest with a mess overlay of the classic skull logo. Looked pretty cool and something similar could surely be incorporated into the movie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds very cool, and may translate better to the screen than the traditional suit with the big white skull on the chest!

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D.K.HOOD:
<B> The Canadian Batman Ladies and Gentlemen. jk

Your absolutely right about the calling card. How else are you supposed to let the rest of the underworld know that its one man haunting them and not some secret task force. Criminals aren't afraid of cops, but a vengeful spirit is something different. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To D.K and GRIM:
Yes! Very good points! It's like in "The Usual Suspects"..... when all the bad guy's were absolutely COWERING when they found out that ANOTHER one of their ilk, Kaiser Sose, was out there, haunting AND hunting them. That's a damn good observation, very good, men!

[norrinraad]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bigkid:
Oh, Noble Norin! Where I DO believe Ray Liotta wouldn't be a bad choice for Castle, I think one of the great thing's ABOUT Thomas Jane, is that you wouldn't BE frightened of this guy coming down the street, I think that's probably why they made his character in the upcoming new version of The Punisher someone who's NOT as forbodding as say, someone like Liotta.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true BK, but keep in mind I'm thinking here from a criminal perspective! Frank really has no secret identity and is well known within the criminal world (at least further on in the character's development). One of the reasons he is so scary is because he's a mean looking mofo, not to mention the fact that he's psycho! Imagine you're a small time hood and you've heard about this urban myth called The Punisher, and one night you see Liotta coming at you with those eyes of his. I dunno, I think Liotta can definitely strike that kind of fear in an audience. However, if they're going for a before/after comparison, Jane may be more feasible. We'll see... http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif

[D.K.HOOD]

I mentioned this before when Jane's name was first rumored for the role. Rent the movie called 'Thursday' if you haven't seen it. That is, if you can find it. Thomas Jane has some moments in that film that scream Frank Castle.

[Flinch]

This is just in: Thomas Jane has decided to drop the Punisher role and will be in another film instead, BayWatch: The Movie.

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The Hills are Alive...with the Sound of Muuusic!!! La La La

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flinch:
<B>This is just in: Thomas Jane has decided to drop the Punisher role and will be in another film instead, BayWatch: The Movie.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You certainly did make me just FLINCH with that one, Flincheroonie! LOL! I think Thomas Jane would, in some weird way, really consider THAT an acting challenge, allright!

[WC]

Maybe David Hasselhoff could take over from Thomas Jane as the Punisher and weave some more Nick Fury magic!

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Meoww! Send in the clowns!

[imported_StormShadow]

In regards to the costume worries, Avi has stated that the Skull will be very prominent in the movie(the interview is somehwere in the archives). It was also stated that while it wouldn't be directly based on the 'Welcome back Frank' story-line, it would have some of the elements of it. Im not sure if Ma Gannuci will be a character in it, but it has been stated that the Russian will be part of of the movie. I do assume that with this, they mean that Frank will become the Punisher a while after his family is killed, like the story will be explained as the story goes on.....but that last bit is just speculation.

[GRIM]

that is indeed, a happy bit of news storm shadow. thank you.

[Bigkid]

I wish I knew this series a lot more then just knowing the basics about The Punisher, because I don't even KNOW who Ma Gannuci or The Russian are! Perhaps Mr. Grim can give me a run down of these two important characters? Also, yes, I DO like the notion of getting that skull in on the costume, it alway's was an eye catcher!

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bigkid:
I wish I knew this series a lot more then just knowing the basics about The Punisher, because I don't even KNOW who Ma Gannuci or The Russian are! Perhaps Mr. Grim can give me a run down of these two important characters? Also, yes, I DO like the notion of getting that skull in on the costume, it alway's was an eye catcher!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go here BigKid http://www.thepunisher.com/fun_stuff/punisher/origin.htm

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D.K.HOOD:
<B> Go here BigKid http://www.thepunisher.com/fun_stuff/punisher/origin.htm

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks a bunch, D.K.! I'll be sure to be checking it out! I'm sure that it'll have all the answers to my queries! Thanks again!

[GRIM]

BK, hey whats to know, ma gannuci, mean old mob lady, becomes a torso vie a polar bear, (compilments of frank, it was a zoo incesdent, he dosent caring one around with him to ride in the battle van and ride on unicycle.)

the russian, big russian hitter/ mercenary, president of the daredevil fan club in moscow. lots of tatoos, loses his head to franky, some back ops guys put it back on and supe him ups. as a resolt he grew big swinging man boobs.

ma gannuci, dead, fairly noraml circumstances in her firld, punisher.

the russian, dead. got droped on an island full of mercanaries along with a nuke via frank. that storie by the way is my favorite to date. another demostration of garth ennis's writing philosophy, if you cant write it...write it.

kill god.. no way. did it.

island full of mercenaries gets nuked, the island by the way is being funded by who, the president...no way! he did it

"nine millimeters, thats how close i will always be to you."-frank to our president.

[Bigkid]

Thanks for this information, Grim! I had no idea about either of these two.... plus, as colorful a character as The Russian sounds, I rather am interested in this Ma Ganucci character...... a comic book version of Ma Barker, I assume??

[Essex]

You can't just say "Ma Gnucci is dead and that's it." Her death was one of the most hilarious scenes I've ever seen! After Punisher set fire to her hospital room, Ma Gnucci's limb-less torso dropped from the second story window and began threatening Frank (despite being a few feet below him). Frank responded by punting her torso like a football.

And that was the end of that...

------------------
"That which does not kill us...makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild, Aeon Flux

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Essex:
<B>You can't just say "Ma Gnucci is dead and that's it." Her death was one of the most hilarious scenes I've ever seen! After Punisher set fire to her hospital room, Ma Gnucci's limb-less torso dropped from the second story window and began threatening Frank (despite being a few feet below him). Frank responded by punting her torso like a football.

And that was the end of that...

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Essex!
REALLY??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!!!

THAT IS pretty DAMN funny! I can see how the character of LOBO could have come about, then, as inspiration from this comic.... LOBO used to kill people who you wouldn't have thought were cabable of being a threat... but, he does it! Nobody escapes unscathed, and I think THAT'S what has been so alluring to the audience's of The Punisher!
(Oh, that's a funny scene you described, though)!

[CaptainSkeptic]

1)Rollins is too short and he is not "full of rage" by any stretch of the imagination(which has nothing to do with whether he could pull off the role but I doubt he would even consider taking the role since he is not much for the violent gun-toting hero set).

2)Mike Zeck's punisher was THE definitive punisher.Larger than life with a neck like a pit bull.Most puni fans did not care for the Klaus Jansen/Whilce Portatio type scrawny-scribble figure and even Jim Lee's visualization was merely tolerable compared to Zeck's.
I am sorry but Gibson just isn't the one.He still seems to have a hard time completely dispensing with the Aussie accent even when he is playing a born and raised American character and I shudder to think of him trying to be "Frank Castiglione/Castle" but even if he can pull it off as an actor he simply does not look the part.
Payback was an ok movie, as was the first Lethal Weapon and the Road Warrior is perhaps the best action movie ever made so I am not doubting the Mel Can do action./..he just does not look like the Punisher.Sorry.
3)Neither Dolph Lundren, nor excessive violence were to blame for the direct-to-video release of the original "Punisher".I don't think anyone ever even mentioned the violence( it was pretty tame actually) in their reviews but rather the terrible script, poor dialogue and ridiculous cliche's.
Dolph is probably the best choice for the definitive punisher from a physical standpoint at least.I have heard much dumber suggestions("Stallone, Ahnold etc.).

4)Why make the first mopvie about an already geriatric punisher?I am not saying it could not be done but I think they should reserve the idea of a 55-60 year old Punisher for a "Dark Puni' Returns" type of sequal in the future.Either keep this one in the '80's or go with a different orgin than the Viet Nam thing.

------------------
"I am in a very peculiar business...I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know."-James Randi

[CaptainSkeptic]

5)Ray Liota(if he buffed up for about 4-6 months prior to shooting) would be a great choice.I am skeptical about Thomas Jane.

6)I don't know about this FBI/forensic specialist angle.The thing I liked about the Punisher was that the character(at least in the GOOD stories) was not much of a thinker and the stories did not require a whole lot of contemplation to enjoy.He was like a modern version of Conan and/or Solomon Kane.
I read and enjoy the high brow stuff but if I were still reading comics adn I wanted to crack open a Punisher book I would not be doing so because I wanted to draw analogies to Dostoyevsky.I would want to see that larger than life, neck-like-a-pit-bull, bullet-seating Punisher blowing people away as if he were trapped in a John Woo flick.

------------------
"I am in a very peculiar business...I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know."-James Randi

[GRIM]

captain.
in not a big puni fan, but im a huge garth fan. so im biest as to who my favorite writer is.

mel gibson? rollins? man that was two pages ago guy. the question now is, can tohmas jane pull it off. the general opinon seems to be yes. guess we will just have to wait and see.

to some guy:
i didnt include ma's death because.....jesus i forgot. but after reading your post i went back and read that issue, ahhhhhhhh now i rember.

i recived the issue in the mall comic book store, i went to a bench to sit and read while i waited for nova caitlin to get done at hot topic. the looks i got when i literaly fell over laghing. jesus, i cant believe i forgot that. sadly, im forgetting alot of things. and i dont smoke pot, and im only 19. son of a bitch.

[Bigkid]

I only heard about that Ma Ganucci thing a short few DAYS ago, and I still laugh my ass off over that! I MUST try to find that particular comic, it sound's like a modern day classic! As for Thomas Jane.... again, I'm telling you....... this guy will do the job, no question! He's good enough, he's one of these real intensive type "method" style guys.... maybe NOT as intense as a guy like, say, Daniel Day-Lewis, who goes HOME in the role that he's playing at the end of the day....once the cameras stop, he's still in character and stay's that way even AFTER they've wrapped..... but I'll tell you, he'll give the role the "tender loving care" that the fan's of the series are hoping whoever play's him will give it.

[GRIM]

the words "tender loving care" should never be associated with punisher. point taken however. im more woried about who is directing this, i dont belive i have haerd. if i did he must me some nobody. can anyone let me in on that?

[Bigkid]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
the words "tender loving care" should never be associated with punisher. point taken however. im more woried about who is directing this, i dont belive i have haerd. if i did he must me some nobody. can anyone let me in on that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Grimster!
Funny, after I wrote the "tender loving care" comment, I DID wind up realizing what an oxymoron that was! But I'm glad you were able to see what I meant. Yes,more to the point.... who will direct this? I happen to think that Christopher Nolan (Memento), should maybe re-think doing THIS project, and not the next BATMAN film, as is being said right now. His style of subliminal flashbacking and character driven work could be very interesting for this project.

[Flinch]

THIS IS JUST IN: in the movie, it will be Frank Castle that will die. One of his son will grow up and will try to get revenge, but the bad guys will laugh it off so he will decide to go surfing instead. *cue surfing music*



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The Hills are Alive...with the Sound of Muuusic!!! La La La

[D.K.HOOD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flinch:
<B>THIS IS JUST IN: in the movie, it will be Frank Castle that will die. One of his son will grow up and will try to get revenge, but the bad guys will laugh it off so he will decide to go surfing instead. *cue surfing music*
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If there was a way to smack people through there modems your face would be really sore right about now.

[Flinch]

Don`t mind me, i`m enjoying the sun!

*surfing music*

------------------
The Hills are Alive...with the Sound of Muuusic!!! La La La

[GRIM]

IIIII LIKE IT! *puts gun to head* (if only all movies producers could too, cuz this idea would probably have sold to them with the right pitch.) *pulls triggerz* "bang splat!"

[Frostbite]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flinch:
THIS IS JUST IN: in the movie, it will be Frank Castle that will die.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That reminds me. In 8th or 9th grade, there was this kid in my class named Mike Castle. I used to always say to his girlfriend "Mike Castle: It's what you crave." Teehee.

[norrinraad]

So basically, you're saying you've always been a little shit? http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/wink.gif

J/K Frosty!

[Frostbite]

Where some see a "little shit", others see an "eloquent funster".

[imported_Robbo]

I'm moving this to the brand new Punisher forum (http://www.comics2film.com/cgibin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Punisher&number=18&DaysPrune=30&LastLogin=)!

[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by themanwithoutfear:
<B>i would go back to dolph lundgren. laugh all you want i don't care. he captured frank perfect. any TRUE punisher fan would know it.
look at his eyes. he perfectly captured franks sorrow in his eyes. the pain. the depression. the loss. frank isn't complete without his family. he's empty inside. you got that from dolph.
also frank dosen't care. he kills criminals in a twisted revenge, and deep down he knows what he is doing is good, but all he wants is his family. if he takes some criminals off the street, good, but if one gets lucky and kills him then he gets to be with his family again.( think the movie gladiator)this was perfectly captured in the scene where the mob boss's kid picks up a gun and say's he's going to kill frank and frank gets down on one knee and puts the barrell to his head and tells him to go ahead and pull the trigger.
i honestly don't understand how punisher is a BAD movie. i agree that it wasn't the best but it was actually pretty good. ( the yakuza thing and kidnapping kids angle blew but other then that...great)
i like the idea of frank being a cop. it makes more sense then having him be whacked out vietnam vet who watched his family get killed.
making him a cop updates him. gives a good reason as to why his family got killed. his accsess to his arsenel. his knoweledge of crime.( ie, mafia familys, hoods,informants, etc.) it's just a good idea plain and simple.

so i think dolph lundgren would still make an amazing punisher( and with better material to work with too!)
but the only person other then dolph to play punisher for me would be henry rollins.
yup henry rollins would make a great punisher.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

THEMANWITHOUTFEAR,

It's great to read of someone other than myself giving MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN his full props as THE PUNISHER(TM)!

I don't understand your antipathy to THE YAKUZA/child slavery aspects of the storyline, since children & family are a big part of why the man does what he does, but I shan't attempt to dissuade you from that position, since I expect that you have a well-reasoned argument for why it is that you feel & think as you do.

It's true that American Law-Enforcement branches are well-armed & have access to databases that the layman does not, but for me, THE PUNISHER(TM) being a military man makes his methodology & mindset more of an X factor for those whose assigned/chosen task it is to apprehend him, whereas if he is a policeman/F.B.I. Agent/Special Agent, he becomes more of a known quantity to both criminals & his former colleagues.

It would be wonderful to see & hear MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN reprise THE PUNISHER(TM) in his more lived-in current physique, physiognomy & mental state as a parent, but I can see why the look of MR. HENRY ROLLINS would work for you, especially given his work in HEAT(TM) & the videoclip for "DISCONNECT".



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
frank castle is a socio path. plane and simple. i think has no desire to go back to his family. out of guilt. but morals dont even factor into it anymore. just what needs to be done. remember, he had a chance at heaven. he blew it off for the sake of killing more crooks. this is the punisher i want. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRIM,

I disagree with your assessment that THE PUNISHER(TM) "is a sociopath", since he knows the difference between Right & Wrong, as well as between what is Legal & Illegal, but makes a consious, rational decision to behave & speak as he does.

If you mean that he has no desire to die in order to return to his family, then I would contest that position, since what other reason would he have for walking around with a big white target on his chest, if not Survivor Guilt? Likewise with THE BATMAN(TM), whose name he invokes in THE PUNISHER(TM) (1989) during the torture scene with LADY TANAKA.

I have chosen to treat all that angel/demon buggery as an apocryphal "WHAT IF...?" scenario that took place during his sleep while THE PUNISHER(TM) was detained by the traitor MICROCHIP, but I'm glad that those stories pumped your 'nads!


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by themanwithoutfear:
i like payback. the idea of gibson playing punisher is alright, i just think dolph lundgren or henry rollins would be good choices. also i see mel playing marv in a sin city film. payback just seemed more like sin city then punisher.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TMWF,

With all due respect to MR. MEL GIBSON, he is both too short & physically wrong for the role of MARV in MR. FRANK MILLER'S SIN CITY(TM).

I submit that a more suitable choice might be someone like...MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN!


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bigkid:
The film didn't do well when it first came out, because it was deemed just TOO violent at that time, and it got socked because of that. It went straight to video as a result, and never saw the light of the Multiplexes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BIGKID,

I was under the impression from MARVEL AGE(TM) that THE PUNISHER(TM) (1989) failed because NEW WORLD PICTURES(TM) & MR. "SMILIN'" STAN "THE MAN" LEE did not have faith in the cinematic audience's intellectual ability to grasp the idea of a man running around with a big logo on his chest - like TB'S <B>BATMAN(TM), that same year! - rejecting the concept as "too comic booky".

I recall MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN promoting the picture on THE ARSENION HALL SHOW, & I still feel seething resentment over the betrayal of that project @ such short notice.

THE PUNISHER(TM) is a Professional Vigilante, so I don't see how he could ever be seen as "TOO violent", especially given the high watermark established & maintained by both [B]BLADE(TM) & BLADE II(TM)</B>!



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by themanwithoutfear:
<B>see , like i said before, the movie comes through! ( cuz frank was a cop)
but yes, like i said before, the nam vet thing closes alot of doors for the charecter.( i like what ennis is doing but here me out first) how long ago was nam? so frank would be in the 55 or so age range and how good does a 40- 50 someodd year old man move? not as good as say a 30 something year old man.
and it dosen't matter how hard an old man " stays in shape". time takes it's toll on the body. especially in franks " line of work".
the same can be said of a 30+ man but it's more believable.
and also like i said the cop angle opens more doors. a perfect reason for his family to die, etc.

and some one said that they think frank has no want to go back to his family. thats wrong. saying frank dosen't want to go back trivializes the whole reason he's doing this.
revenge. that person is pretty much saying they don't matter and were only there as a reason for him to become the punisher.
the charecter of frank castle is ALOT more inticate then a man with guns who kills bad guys.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


TMWF,

I understand your position, but as THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE(TM), I must point you toward MR. SCOTT GLENN in MAN ON FIRE(TM), who threw down like a m*th*rf*ck*r, sufficiently so that whenever I watch my VHS, I envision the skull on his chest, despite his obvious Texan accent.


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
now a question: did anybody actually read my little treatment way up there? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRIM,

Yes, I did, & I liked it a lot!


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D.K.HOOD:
Alright forget the age thing. Mel Gibson just doesn't have the physical stature to pull of the Punisher. I always thought he would have made a good Wolverine because he's so short and can play psycho(Lethal Weapon) he would not be the Punisher.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DKH,

I would have liked to see MR. JEFF WINCOTT in the role of WOLVERINE(TM), since he is a brilliant Taekwondo Champion, a good actor, & Canadian, as well as the correct stature.



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bigkid:
How about a REAL way out there kind of thought for a casting? Well, only because he's not a MAJOR star: Francesco Quinn (Anthony's son)? He's got a GREAT ethnic look, plus, he's a bruiser'ish sorta looking guy. He's got a decent pair of acting chops..... and as far as being physically imposing, I think he fits in there.... I know this is NOT going to be the choice of the majority here (particularly with Mr. Grim)....... but,since we are all playing a game of "what if's" anyway...... well...... WHAT IF?? Please....... SHARE!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BK,

I don't know who that person is, unless you are talking about "LITTLE ANTHONY" from THE SOPRANOS(TM).



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
ok then, assuming punisher should be around fiftie something (marvel nights punisher folks) who else could play frank castle. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRIM,

I submit MR. CHRISTOPHER MELONI of OZ(TM), LAW & ORDER: SVU(TM).


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bigkid:
<B> Hey, listen, if people on this site can take me for the last year and a half railing on and on about how they should've cast Viggo Mortensen in the role of DAREDEVIL, we certainly can keep checking out GRIM'S choice for Punisher!

Share, y'all! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BK,

My own choice for DAREDEVIL(TM)/MATT MURDOCK would have been MR. ERIC STOLTZ.



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
and rollins is bad ass on an entirley differnet level, although i would like to see him as a superhero. im thinking lobo might suit him fine. he has the tatoos, slap a wig and paint on him, you got youreself a bad mother fragger. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRIM,

Receive 100 bonus marks & go to THE TOP OF THE CLASS(TM)!


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D.K.HOOD:
<B>Ok, instead of preaching about who shouldn't play The Punisher I'm going to give you my pick instead. Here he is,
http://www.pamzylove.com/sopranos/all.jpg

His name is Federico Castelluccio and he plays Furio on the Sopranos. You can read his bio here: http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/cast/cast_castelluccio.shtml </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DKH,

He would work excellent well for me as THE PUNISHER(TM)!


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
<B>dye his hair black, give him ess de lauters,

KILLER! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRIM,

What is/are "ess de lauters"?



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
as i understand it frank was a cop in the original too, cop/vietnam vet. lotta vets get into the force, or corrections. stuff like that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRIM,

That was a retroactive continuity in the wake of MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN'S portrayal of THE PUNISHER(TM) & subsequent issues of "WHAT IF...?"



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
all i gotta say is thank god is not loph lundren. he stinks, an i dont like em!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRIM,

OUCH, man!

Just...OUCH!


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by norrinraad:
One of the reasons he is so scary is because he's a mean looking mofo, not to mention the fact that he's psycho! Imagine you're a small time hood and you've heard about this urban myth called The Punisher, and one night you see Liotta coming at you with those eyes of his. I dunno, I think Liotta can definitely strike that kind of fear in an audience. However, if they're going for a before/after comparison, Jane may be more feasible. We'll see... http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

NR,

I disagree that THE PUNISHER(TM) is "psycho". What makes him frightening is that he is entirely in command of his faculties.

Having seen SOMETHING WILD(TM), I understand why everyone jumps up & down over MR. RAY LIOTTA, but he doesn't work for me as THE PUNISHER(TM) because his eyes are too small & his voice is too gentle for the character.



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Welshcat:
Maybe David Hasselhoff could take over from Thomas Jane as the Punisher and weave some more Nick Fury magic!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WELSHCAT,

You cheeky monkey!


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bigkid:
I wish I knew this series a lot more then just knowing the basics about The Punisher, because I don't even KNOW who Ma Gannuci or The Russian are! Perhaps Mr. Grim can give me a run down of these two important characters? Also, yes, I DO like the notion of getting that skull in on the costume, it alway's was an eye catcher!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BK,

I cannot recommend highly enough that you obtain THE PUNISHER(TM): WELCOME BACK, FRANK! TPB by MESSRS. GARTH ENNIS & STEVE DILLON, as quickly as bloody possible.



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CaptainSkeptic:
<B>2)Mike Zeck's punisher was THE definitive punisher.Larger than life with a neck like a pit bull.Most puni fans did not care for the Klaus Jansen/Whilce Portatio type scrawny-scribble figure and even Jim Lee's visualization was merely tolerable compared to Zeck's.

Dolph is probably the best choice for the definitive punisher from a physical standpoint at least.I have heard much dumber suggestions("Stallone, Ahnold etc.).
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CS,

I have always loathed the simian-looking renderings of THE PUNISHER(TM) that HERR KLAUS JANSON did, & was not pleased when I learned that it was he who had been assigned to CAPTAIN AMERICA(TM)/THE PUNISHER(TM): BLOOD & GLORY.

I love the WHILCE PORTACIO/JIM LEE interpretations of the character, but I also enjoy the Film Noir approach of MESSRS. MIKE ZECK & JOHN BEATTY.

MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN is physically perfect to portray THE PUNISHER(TM) when his hair is dyed Jet Black, especially in light of the above-mentioned Artists' renderings.


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CaptainSkeptic:
<B>5)Ray Liota(if he buffed up for about 4-6 months prior to shooting) would be a great choice.I am skeptical about Thomas Jane.

6)I don't know about this FBI/forensic specialist angle.The thing I liked about the Punisher was that the character(at least in the GOOD stories) was not much of a thinker and the stories did not require a whole lot of contemplation to enjoy.He was like a modern version of Conan and/or Solomon Kane.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CS,

I disagree with your remarks concerning THE PUNISHER'S(TM) thoughts.

For me, he is very much "a thinker", which is why he cannot let go of his grief over the deaths of his family, why he cannot let go of his Survivor Guilt, why he plans strategically & methodically, & why he is so tactically adaptable when in the field.

...And why he goes so far out of his way to protect innocents.


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

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[GRIM]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MALCOLMXERXES:
<B> GRIM,

What is/are "ess de lauters"?

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


did i write that? i think it may be a shampoo, but man, i dont realy know. i must have been drunk.

[GRIM]

this post is dead mate. i suggest you dont waste anymore time on it. four pages is just pushing it to far.

------------------
DICK

[CaptainSkeptic]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MALCOLMXERXES:
<B> CS,

I disagree with your remarks concerning THE PUNISHER'S(TM) thoughts.

For me, he is very much "a thinker", which is why he cannot let go of his grief over the deaths of his family, why he cannot let go of his Survivor Guilt, why he plans strategically & methodically, & why he is so tactically adaptable when in the field.

...And why he goes so far out of his way to protect innocents.


</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Point taken.What I was getting at was not so much that Frank is "thick" but just that the punisher stories did not provoke the same contemplation and reflection that, say Paul Chadwick's Concrete or Quinn and Vigil's Faust do.

BTW, where have you been?I was wonder what happened to you MX?



------------------
"I am in a very peculiar business...I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know."-James Randi

[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRIM:
<B>
did i write that? i think it may be a shampoo, but man, i dont realy know. i must have been drunk. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GRIM,

Could it have been "ESTEE LAUDER(TM)", then?


------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

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[MALCOLMXERXES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CaptainSkeptic:
<B> Point taken.What I was getting at was not so much that Frank is "thick" but just that the punisher stories did not provoke the same contemplation and reflection that, say Paul Chadwick's Concrete or Quinn and Vigil's Faust do.

BTW, where have you been?I was wonder what happened to you, MX?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CS,

Acknowledged, thank you.

I had not inferred that you thought THE PUNISHER(TM) to be a dullard; rather, I thought that you were exploring the idea of him as being more Reactive than Proactive.

If I understand you correctly, now, you were addressing the effect of his stories upon the reader. The books you mentioned are not titles that I have explored - aside from the GOETHE story & play! - so I cannot comment upon the comparative contemplative effect of THE PUNISHER(TM) in relation to those books, but I know that his stories always make me think about the nature of alienation & the cost to one's soul of living in & conforming with Society.

I got locked out of this domain in some way, because I could not get around the protocols, being a relative cybersimpleton, so I busied myself with my career, instead, collaborating on a screenplay, working in various series, films, plays, et cetera.

It's good to be back, & thank you for noticing my enforced absence from this domain! http://www.comics2film.com/UBB/smile.gif



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[GRIM]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MALCOLMXERXES:
<B> GRIM,

I disagree with your assessment that THE PUNISHER(TM) "is a sociopath", since he knows the difference between Right & Wrong, as well as between what is Legal & Illegal, but makes a consious, rational decision to behave & speak as he does.

If you mean that he has no desire to die in order to return to his family, then I would contest that position, since what other reason would he have for walking around with a big white target on his chest, if not Survivor Guilt? Likewise with THE BATMAN(TM), whose name he invokes in THE PUNISHER(TM) (1989)</B> during the torture scene with LADY TANAKA.

I have chosen to treat all that angel/demon buggery as an apocryphal "WHAT IF...?" scenario that took place during his sleep while THE PUNISHER(TM) was detained by the traitor MICROCHIP, but I'm glad that those stories pumped your 'nads!


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well, if you dont coutn out the angel crap, puni did die. and choose to come back rather than be with his family.

and as for the skull. two reasons. big skull on his KEVLAR proteced chest. he rather them shoot at the skull tha his head.
second reason, its scary. same princible as Batmans costume. criminals are indeed a supersticous cowardley lot.

oh and about the sociopath thing.

quote from Spencer A. Rathus, second edition psychology book:
The sociopath persistentley violates the rights of others, and encounters conflict with the law. Cleckley (1964) notes soiciopaths often have atleast above average IQ. Perhaps the most striking feture of a sociopath is thier lack of guilt, and a low level of anxiety. Sociapaths may seek out superfictial means of pleasure, but are never satisfied.

how do you like dem apples?


------------------
DICK

[MALCOLMXERXES]

GRIM,

I do not contest those other reasons for THE PUNISHER(TM) wearing the white skull on his chest; they make perfect sense.

However, if I may play THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE(TM), in MESSRS. GARTH ENNIS & STEVE DILLON'S "WELCOME BACK, FRANK!" TPB, THE PUNISHER(TM) is seen with several bleeding bulletholes in various portions of his skull-emblazoned anatomy. No mention was made of the goombahs & mooks being armed with armour-piercing rounds; therefore, he was not wearing KEVLAR(TM), just as he didn't wear it in MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN'S characterisation.

Based upon the definition of sociopathology provided in the text from which you have quoted, I can see why you have branded THE PUNISHER(TM) that way.

However, that definition is sufficiently vague enough that it describes most people whom I know, several of whom are police personnel & soldiers, as well as Rock musicians.

I do not seek to dissuade you from your belief; I simply choose not to share it.

"Dem apples" are very shiny, red & crisp.

------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor
MALCOLMXERXES.COM (http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0004686/board/threads/) Annex
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[GRIM]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MALCOLMXERXES:
<B>GRIM,

I do not contest those other reasons for THE PUNISHER(TM) wearing the white skull on his chest; they make perfect sense.

However, if I may play THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE(TM), in MESSRS. GARTH ENNIS & STEVE DILLON'S "WELCOME BACK, FRANK!" TPB, THE PUNISHER(TM) is seen with several bleeding bulletholes in various portions of his skull-emblazoned anatomy. No mention was made of the goombahs & mooks being armed with armour-piercing rounds; therefore, he was not wearing KEVLAR(TM), just as he didn't wear it in MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN'S characterisation.

Based upon the definition of sociopathology provided in the text from which you have quoted, I can see why you have branded THE PUNISHER(TM) that way.

However, that definition is sufficiently vague enough that it describes most people whom I know, several of whom are police personnel & soldiers, as well as Rock musicians.

I do not seek to dissuade you from your belief; I simply choose not to share it.

"Dem apples" are very shiny, red & crisp.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


reviw your collection. at one point (i think its issue five, maybe,anyway when hes ratted out by a guy who lives nearby and ma's boys go after him) frank sais to himself "bullet went trhough on that one."
you dont need armor piercing bullets to go through kevlar, several high calibers will do it, and it depends on the rannge.

now on to my other point.
the book also happend to mention something i left out. "sociopaths are known in many cases to have a strict code of conduct." like say... killing only criminals? sociopaths are very ethical people in alot of cases. just not moral.

im not saying im right on this, nor am i trying to get you believe in my way of thinking. just putting it out there because to do otherwise would be boaring. but certainatley you can admit that a pychologist may deam frank a socipath? moot point, the dont classify people as sociopaths anymore.

[MALCOLMXERXES]

Yes, I recall that issue.

However, the absence of bullet hits to THE PUNISHER'S(TM) anatomy preceding that penetrator tend to contradict the presence of repeated hits to his KEVLAR(TM).

Not that it matters, since what I most enjoy about THE PUNISHER(TM) is reading of how he deals with situations that are not of his choosing, for I find that those are the ones wherein he excels.

It is my belief that various psychiatrists & psychologists would prefer to brand THE PUNISHER(TM) with such a convenient label, rather than admit or acknowledge that he is capable of doing what he does while in his right mind.

In this way, they are not forced to question or re-evaluate their own respective Ethics & Morality, particularly with appertinence to their own fields.

------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor
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[GRIM]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MALCOLMXERXES:


It is my belief that various psychiatrists & psychologists would prefer to brand THE PUNISHER(TM) with such a convenient label, rather than admit or acknowledge that he is capable of doing what he does while in his right mind.

In this way, they are not forced to question or re-evaluate their own respective Ethics & Morality, particularly with appertinence to their own fields.

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


to true my man. to true. however, i choose to label him a sociopath because he shows the symptoms. however, ive seen many people go off the deep end. several being vietnam vets. frank has a powerfull control over his actions, and emotions.



------------------
DICK

[MALCOLMXERXES]

I grok the fullness of the totality!

------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor
MALCOLMXERXES.COM (http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0004686/board/threads/) Annex
The MX-Files (http://www.geocities.com/malcolmxerxes/index.html)

[mallratX2]

ATTENTION ALL PUNISHER FANS! go rent Boondock Saints, this movie is amazingly awesome, its very Punisher-esque in that the brothers kill for good. it's one of my favorite movies, i strongly recommend it.

------------------
"one day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day you will reap it.We will send you to whatever god you wish."

[MALCOLMXERXES]

MALLRATX2,

You've just blown the film, for me. I would have watched the film on your recommendation without knowing that.

Next time, a spoiler warning would be appreciated, please.

------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor
MALCOLMXERXES.COM (http://www.a1000m.com/BB/viewtopic.php?t=65)
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[mallratX2]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MALCOLMXERXES:
<B>MALLRATX2,

You've just blown the film, for me. I would have watched the film on your recommendation without knowing that.

Next time, a spoiler warning would be appreciated, please.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no no no i didnt spoil the movie at all, you wouldve known that just a from a trailer or reading the back of the box, hell i knew that when i watched it, thats like saying that bruce banner turns into the hulk in The Hulk, no biggie, seriously



------------------
"one day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day you will reap it.We will send you to whatever god you wish."

[MALCOLMXERXES]

I don't watch trailers, nor do I read the backs of boxes, since they invariably spoil the films, as well.

------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor
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[imported_Thom]

So wouldn't you know a little too much about a Punisher film already? :P I don't think a basic premise counts as spoiler material.

[MALCOLMXERXES]

THOM,

Yes, that is correct. Inevitable when one is such a notorious fan of THE PUNISHER(TM) as I am, since virtually every Email I receive is from people telling me things within the context of more personal developments.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course; I would not attempt to dissuade you from it.



------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor
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[imported_Thom]

I don't mean to be contrary, but I don't even see how it's a matter of opinion. How do you gauge anything about a film--whether you'd want to see it, what sort of film to expect (comedy, drama, etc.)--if you don't at least know the basic premise?

Do you see every single movie and go into each of them completely blind, devoid of any knowledge? Do you judge purely on someone saying, "I recommend you watch it," with no further detail? I guess that's doable, but jeez, what an expensive and risky way to see movies. There are a lot of films out there that I consider complete and utter crap, regardless of other people's recommendations. I imagine that's the same with everybody, varying only by our tastes. So unless you're pretty well-to-do or have some way to see everything free, I just can't see you getting much bang for your buck that way.

And regardless of 'opinion', I'd venture that 95% of moviegoers don't consider basic premise to be spoiler information.

[MALCOLMXERXES]

THOM,

I determine who is in the film, who is directing it, & the title. Beyond that, the poster tells me more than enough to determine whether or not I want to see it.

------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[themanwithoutfear]

uh..yeah so back on topic....
david fincher would be great to direct the punisher.

[norrinraad]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by themanwithoutfear:
david fincher would be great to direct the punisher.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely! Talk about the perfect match of director to source material! I would love to see what Fincher could do with the character...

[MALCOLMXERXES]

Was he the bloke responsible for ALIEN3?

------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
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[norrinraad]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MALCOLMXERXES:
Was he the bloke responsible for ALIEN3?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was him! I'm one of those people who actually liked Alien 3. As an individual viewing experience it may not be as horrific as the first, as intense as the second or as visionary as the fourth, but if you watch all four films back-to-back it's really amazing how seamlessly they all flow together. The third installment has a claustrophobic feel to it that really appeals to me, and it really is the saddest film in the franchise. Ripley really reaches the end of the road in this one, and her final sacrifice still chokes me up. I see Alien 3 as an allegory for terminal illness, with its sad inevitability and the whole concept of a brave soul facing the end, not happy about it but accepting it nonetheless. And of course there is the magnificent Sigourney Weaver, still one of my favourites. I still think they should have stopped there, but what can do you? And even if you don't like Alien 3, you have to admit that Fincher redeemed himself with Seven, Fight Club and Panic Room. I think he could do amazing things with Frank Castle, but alas it's all just conjecture at this point.



[This message has been edited by norrinraad (edited 06-13-2003).]

[themanwithoutfear]

yeah but this thread is for the perfect punisher movie..it gives us fans a place to dream up what we feel would be the coolest movie with our fav charecter. so who cares about the new film comin out...let's dream....

like i said david fincher as director would be cool as hell. i'd like to see him do either punisher batman or daredevil.(does anyone remember when his name was being mentioned as a possible director for spider-man?i thought it'd be interesting. and i recall he wanted to do a darker version.)
i'd stick to either dolph or henry rollins as frank.
mix equal parts of the original film with elements of garth ennis storys and some original ideas for the story.
the only soundtrack would be a score.no hip hop altrock hevy metal bullshit.
i wouldnt have him team up with a mobster like in the original or the new version (as it seems they are doing)
rated r for extreme violence,language,etc.

[thejokerscard]

I think to sum up most of us, we just want a good script, and no cheesy dialogue. A good selection of weapons that were used in the comics. Castle must be played by someone we can sympathize with and be portrayed as a man who has tried to cope with his loss for 20 years by preventing the same fate from happening to others. He shouldn't be some gun toting brainless killer. Understanding the main character is one of the most important rules for these type of action movies.

[mallratX2]

anybody know if there is still gonna be a Punisher teaser with the Hulk, I remember reading that a while back, but I haven't heard anything on it since then.

------------------
"one day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day you will reap it.We will send you to whatever god you wish."

[MALCOLMXERXES]

NORRINRAAD,

I have yet to do an ALIEN(TM) marathon such as you have described, but I can see how MR. DAVID FINCHER'S film might benefit from being bookended in that manner.

I did not see PANIC ROOM(TM), but the other 2 pictures impressed me greatly, particularly FIGHT CLUB(TM), so yes, I agree that he "could do amazing things with FRANK CASTLE", if granted the opportunity.

*****************************

THEMANWITHOUTFEAR,

Full props for your suggestion of a score combined with MR. DOLPH LUNDGREN or HENRY ROLLINS (although I favour the former!)

If MR. GARTH ENNIS wrote the script, that would not upset me.

****************************************

THEJOKERSCARD,

If the THE PUNISHER(TM) was just another "guntoting, brainless killer", then he would not have the charismatic appeal that has enthralled me since 1974.

***********************************

MALLRATX2,

I did not see the trailer prior to HULK(TM), but I did see it prior to LXG(TM), & both of them blew my head from my shoulders!

------------------
"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
...And these weapons make me VERY f*ck*n' Responsible!

MALCOLM XERXES
Stuntman/Actor
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