School Voucher Program

[kah]

I am not sure if this is a program unique to Milwaukee, but if this is widespread, I hope it is being handled better elsewhere. It's a sad day when a city gives up on its public schools and starts paying for its students to go to private school. The biggest problem I see, is the lack of accountability. These "private" schools are not being held to any standard. I'm sure there are some good school out there participating in this program, but there are also some people who are more interested in scamming the system for every dime they can, than educating the children they are charged with.

What You Need To Know About Vouchers (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=401135&date=2/12/2006)
{The issues brought up in this article were resolved by raising the cap to 22,000 students}

Mandella Ordered Closed (http://www2.jsonline.com/news/metro/feb04/208954.asp)

Charter School Heads for Closure (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=415695&date=4/13/2006)

[DaForce]

Yeah, this is the same deal that G.W. wanted to push all over the U.S. (except it was really a lame-ass attempt to get private schools for the wealthy paid for by using tax dollars). They had a school like that here in SF. After all the court trials, corruption, low test scores, and money that was wasted on this, the company that started the schools closed up shop.


Not a big surprise, honestly.

[sickness]

Here's how I see vouchers.

Are you entitled to the most basic of health care whether you can afford it or not? Yep. Should you be entitled to every unproven alternative treatment? Nope.

Is everyone entitled to an education? Yep. Is everyone entitled to the best private school money can buy? Nope.

In retrospect, it's not even that great an analogy since quality of education so often lies with the effort put forth by the student.

[kah]

Well, some people actually care about kids and schools.

KIPP Schools (http://www.kippschools.org/aboutkipp.cfm?pageid=nav6)

Oprah's School Solutions (http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200604/20060412/slide_20060412_284_101.jhtml)

Bill and Melinda Gates on Education (http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200604/tows_past_20060411.jhtml)

[sickness]

I care about schools. In fact, I'd say I probably care more about schools than people who jump on vouchers as a good idea. Vouchers are simply a copout for academic failure and, thus, don't address the reality of what is required for academic success. First and foremost is a desire on the part of the student to do well. Inner city schools have low success rates with students not because of incompetent teachers or teachers who don't care (tell me something, would you go into the slums of your city to be underpaid, surrounded by gangbangers and disrespected by students and administration alike if you didn't care?) but because the students generally don't have parental support or encouragement or they just have the mindset that they'll never be able to get out so what does it matter.

If we assume the school is broken and give vouchers to the parents of these students, what will be the result? The private institution expelling the student for poor academic performance. Vouchers don't change a thing.

[Jakester]

And Kahlan's gone all activist on us.

I'm not going to listen 'til she shows me her boobies. How can you take anyone seriously unless they show you their boobies? I saw that on Boston Legal.

[Intelligent_Design]

I care about schools. In fact, I'd say I probably care more about schools than people who jump on vouchers as a good idea. Vouchers are simply a copout for academic failure and, thus, don't address the reality of what is required for academic success. First and foremost is a desire on the part of the student to do well. Inner city schools have low success rates with students not because of incompetent teachers or teachers who don't care (tell me something, would you go into the slums of your city to be underpaid, surrounded by gangbangers and disrespected by students and administration alike if you didn't care?) but because the students generally don't have parental support or encouragement or they just have the mindset that they'll never be able to get out so what does it matter.

If we assume the school is broken and give vouchers to the parents of these students, what will be the result? The private institution expelling the student for poor academic performance. Vouchers don't change a thing.

I agree. I think the problem with the school system as a whole is most parents don't care if their kids suceed. Most kids that go to good private schools push their kids. Most parents that send their kids to bad public schools could give a shit.

[kah]

Just last year the city tried a new tactic to deter kids from habitual truancy. They issued arrest warrants for the parents. A lot of parents showed up and paid tickets, but then again, a lot of parents couldn't be bothered. Most of the teachers who teach in the inner city really do care about the kids. They wouldn't be there otherwise. They are paid less, have few or no supplies for their students, and have to deal with the danger of (possibly) armed children. Most of the schools in the inner city require see through backpacks and have metal detectors at the entrance. There are more than a few public schools being closed down because of the lack of funds, even though the taxes in the city are the highest in the state. How could teachers possibly be expected to teach when they are trying to control a classroom of 40+ students, most of whom don't even have a textbook, or pencils to write with? These teachers have essentially become babysitters, leaving learning at the wayside. Here's the nationwide (http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_baeo.htm) dropout/graduation rates.

Anyways, Bill Gates said it best, so I'll let you read what he has to say here (http://www.gatesfoundation.org/MediaCenter/Speeches/BillgSpeeches/BGSpeechNGA-050226.htm).

Jake- we'll discuss my boobies at another time.

[Jakester]

Promise?

[omicron]

Ummm, I'd like to RSVP for that coversation also. :eyebrow:

Omi

[kah]

Promise?

If it makes you happy, I'll let you believe I mean it.

[fastcar]

Okay, let's say for a minute, that we accept the voucher program and kids go from public schools to private schools. What happens to private schools? Now they've got an influx of kids who couldn't afford to go there and most likely don't fit into the ideal mold that the private school originally intended it's students to be like.

Won't the private school start to degrade and eventually become a public school environment? Why mess it up? I'm not saying private school is better. I'm saying that it's set up the way it is for a reason. Why hang an albatros around it's neck. Let's fix the situation in the public schools and make them better than before.

[MPG]

Won't the private school start to degrade and eventually become a public school environment?
I think that sums it up nicely. The only difference between today's public schools and tomorrow's private schools is going to be that the state is going to have even less of a possibility to perform some kind of "quality control" on schools.

[kah]

Okay, let's say for a minute, that we accept the voucher program and kids go from public schools to private schools. What happens to private schools? Now they've got an influx of kids who couldn't afford to go there and most likely don't fit into the ideal mold that the private school originally intended it's students to be like.

Won't the private school start to degrade and eventually become a public school environment? Why mess it up? I'm not saying private school is better. I'm saying that it's set up the way it is for a reason. Why hang an albatros around it's neck. Let's fix the situation in the public schools and make them better than before.

The big problem here is all the private schools being created to accept these voucher students. Schools that adhere to no standards other than the ability to cash checks.