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ToM
12-13-2005, 12:27 PM
The sequel to Fantastic Four now, to me anyway, seems even more in the bag given the way the cast has spoken about it in the press, and on the audio commentary track for the DVD. Months ago, Alba said that she *knew* what the first fifteen minutes of the sequel were going to be, and that it was really cool (it involves the wedding of Reed and Sue). That the actress would *know* the details of the first fifteen minutes just suggests to me real forward thinking on the part of the filmakers.

Now, of course, every director comes up with "some" concept or other for a "possible" sequel. So, alone, these comments didn't impress upon me too greatly at the time. But combined with remarks made by *all* of the cast on the commentary track, I'm taking more notice of them.

There were the obligatory references to a sequel that go along like, "Oh, well, the first one was so much of a learning curve, the second one will be so much easier." It really struck me when Alba said as sort of a response to Gruffudd's remark, " The second one will be *so* much better." Then she pauses and rethinks, saying, "The first one was great, but the second one will be so much greater."

Later still, Alba comments on the role of Kerry Washington, saying , "She's going to be in so much more of the second one *because* they're making her into, they're having her be one of the puh..."

Chiklis: "Aaaah!! Aack!"

Alba: "Puh..."

Chicklis: Aack!

Alba: "Puh, surprises. I was just saying that she's going to be one of the surprises. That it'll be a surprise that she's in so much of the movie! There's nothing wrong with saying that!"

Chicklis: "Oh, okay, for a *second* I was afraid you were going to give one of the secrets away."

Well, rather obviously is she was about to give something away, and it had to do with Alicia Masters, and it started with "Puh", it's pretty obviously to do with the Puppet Master. As in, she's going to be one of the puppets, maybe?

To make it even *more* obvious that what Alba "didn't give away" (to what Gruffudd called "a secret no more" ) she *instantly jumps from that last breath to saying, "I'm really excited about the Fantasticar!" And Chiklis is as well. Alba asks who they think Fox will have building it. So,whatever Alba was going to say prior, it *was* to do with story details for a sequel, and was recognized as such by both Chiklis and Gruffudd *instantly* as being such. To me, this implies, if a mere syllable could have them recognizing what she's about to say, that they *all* at some point heard the story concept for a sequel.

So, if they already have "secrets" in store for audiences, things about the second one they don't want given away in terms of story, if the first fifteen minutes are actually in one way or another part of that? That seems a pretty pre-formed concept. And it suggests a complete expectation on the part of the actors that they're shooting a sequel. To them, it's a given. And if so much of the story concept is formed, this also suggests to me that they're going to be moving into it pretty directly (not like how Fox went into X2, where it seemed like several different concepts were played around with, and three years came and went by the time it was released).

I have to agree with the cast that the second one holds much more promise, because it'll be free of so much of the exposition that bogged this one a bit down. They won't have to explain " self regulating unstable molecules" and how their powers work, how they gained them, mastered them over time. Like with the first X-Men, this was sort of a pilot episode, and with the kinks worked out, it'll be much more ironed out as to what works best, and what doesn't. X2 comes to mind.

I was really happy to hear that the cast had the same reaction to Laurie Holden walking out into the streets of New York in her nightie that we all did. Chiklis says he even said something to Story about it at the time. Man, if only they *all* did. That sequence was the only real groaner for me in the whole thing (not counting all the Doom is just a regular guy from the Ultimates kind of moments). They go to all this trouble to make you buy into the "fantastic", only to throw you with the prosaic.

The only other sequence like this to make me really groan, was Doom's reaction to finding Ben has smashed through a solid wall and escaped. Here, something unbelievable has taken place, something astonishing, something that can be happening to Von Doom himself, and he dismisses it as something less than an annoyance. It almost plays as if Ben had simply walked out of the room without saying goodbye to him.

When you see how they made that bridge sequence, how literally nothing of what you see around the girders existed at all, it simply staggers the mind that Story could pull *that* off with his team, but so completely fail with *this* most basic content.

Still, it's not as disasterous a thing as, say, the climax of X-Men One. You know, four superheroes standing around explaining to the audience why *none* of them can use their powers to save the day, and send the *least* powerful among them ( a man made of metal no less to fight a man with magnetic powers) to the rescue while the director *literally* shows them standing around watching. Oh, or how the climatic battle is between an old man, so weakened he can't even stand, against a man with exacto knices sticking out of his hands. It's all give and take I guess. X-Men one got all the nuances right, all the prosiac human moments perfectly, but missed the superheroics. Fantastic Four gets "the Marvel Magic" down, but falters with realism (what made Marvel stuff great was the balance of both).

With the second X-Men, Singer balanced this out. Let's hope Story can do the same. I'm sure after this first one the cast will have become possesive enough of their characters, and feeling confident enough to *really* express any such concerns as they had with this bit, and have such idiocy eliminated next time.

There's so much I didn't notice about this movie till the cast pointed things out. For example, when Reed kneels to propose to Sue, the camera shoots back to them looking into each other's eyes as if he *didn't* kneel. Then, we see a full shot of the two, and his body is elongated so that he's in fact making eye contact *while* kneeling! Then, we see him shrink down to proper proportions. It was a nice touch, so subtle that I missed it the first couple times around. Cool how they had them using their powers in was that would seem very natural to them.

Anyway, I can't help but wonder if Fox would allow so much talk of a sequel to be present on the commentary track...if there wasn't going to be one. From their conversations between one another, that belie conversations with the producers on the subject, they're convinced as to who will be in it, and that it's just a given, something stated to them personally. It's so much different than how, say Dunst talks about a Spider-Man sequel, even when we *know* that's in the bag. For one thing, nobody contradicts Alba's statements over what'll happen in a follow up. They only try to censor her giving anything away. To me, this indicates they know exactly the same content she does and that's very different from Dunst naming names and characters all on her own.
ToM

easy D
12-13-2005, 02:17 PM
Well, it's nice that hopefully, they'll make some improvements over the original, since everyone knows what made the film, um, critically panned. Similar with X-Men, like with Halle Berry dropping her African accent (also, her having one of the worst lines in movie history) and more attention given to other characters.

But, the thing I'm most hopeful about is the return of Tim Story. This guy isn't a big summer blockbuster director similar to the likes of Michael Bay, Steven Spielberg, or Stephen Sommers. Hell, most of the times the director really showed off his best stuff are the times that are between the actors, mostly the scenes featuring The Thing and Human Torch (which is more his style, check out the Barbershop movies), so hopefully he'll learn a thing or two about the action and fighting scenes. Also, since the writer is returning, hopefully, he'll write a tighter story since basically, everyone's pointing out the good parts from the bad parts.

Pod
12-13-2005, 03:49 PM
I'm still waiting to see the DVD of F4 so i'm just wondering...

Are there any clips or details on Human Torch development on the film? He can't just be the funny man of the team all the time. That's just a pointless way of wasting a character in a movie if his character wont be expressed in a manner that can show him as something better than the comedian. Maybe a girlfriend he had in the comics for a long time that showed he actually can settle down...Hmm, is this too off-character for the guy? :?

Maybe something serious from him is the wedding, if it'll even happen in the sequel. Ya never know, they might have a whole movie on planning the film and by the end you'll have the wedding as the final shot. And maybe you can include a new villian by the ending *cough*Galactus*cough*...

Priest: And I pronounce you...
(big explosion)
Thing: Here we go again.
Sue: But..
Reed: It'll have to wait.
Johnny: All right! (happy that his sister isn't getting fully married yet) Quickly come on guys!
(you see them fly out in space on the Fantasti-car)
End... :wink:

ToM
12-13-2005, 05:31 PM
Hey HeavyD, it's funny how you mention that stuff about X-Men One, because *so* many people forget all that stuff. Fans were castigating that first movie all the way up till it opened over the casting of Berry just as they were with Alba here. Also, after so much time has passed, people tend to remember only the *good* reactions fans had, and not how divided they really were over nearly *everything.* (I'm going somewhere with this)

The Rogue of the comics is a sassy, voluptuous woman with a criminal past. Rogue in the movie is....a lost and lonely, vulnerable teenager? Wolverine is played by....some Australian nobody, a guy known only for MUSICALS? Picture that shock again. The X-Men costumes have been ripped away and replaced with...biker wear? Jean is like way too old for the teenage-seeming Cyclops? The climatic battle takes place in...a GIFT SHOP?

Another thing we tend to forget is the mixed reviews. Many critics panned X-Men. Ebert laughed it off as an "also ran." Thumbs down. USA Today *hated* it. And much of what they said is legitimate.

For instance, all the way up till the last five minutes they're *still* introducing characters, plot complications, still trying to explain what the entire movie is actually about! lol! And let's not forget how they *keep* promising spectacular action sequences...and never paying them off. The first meeting of the X-Men with Sabretooth amounts to some snow blowing from a fan at him, one eye zap fired, and the guy leaping into the woods on a string. The same is true with the train station attack for the most part.

Hey, here's a drinking game for you! How many times does Wolverine get knocked out, wake up to have either Xavier or Jean tell him everything that transpired since he went down? lol! Seriously, that happens *three* times in the movie!

When you compare these sorts of things to what seemed to be the massive issues fans took with Fantastic Four, Johnny's hairstyle, Alba playing Sue, Doom being in space with the four, you kind of scratch your head. FF as a series has *less* to *perfect* now than X-Men did going into the second one. That gives it *more* of a chance to get it right. A sequel looks all the more positive to me when I consider all these things.

Now, let's just picture if Fantastic Four, this very movie, had been the one to open in 2000. Wow. Look at how much *closer* in every way this film was to the comics series? It made almost exactly the same amount of money not only on the opening weekend (X-Men 57 million, Fantastic Four 56 million) but on a day by day basis. Given that, Fantastic Four would've been the one to kick start the whole genre (after Blade opened it up). Picture is, in 2005, X-Men One opened, and their places were reversed. Man, I bet this thing would take a beating by fans even worse than Fantastic Four did.

The funny thing is, so many people *continue* to think of the FF as some commercial failure, when it's exactly the same kind of success X-Men was in 2000. If that X-Men film came out *this* summer, would it have pulled in the money FF did? Actually, I tend to think not.

Over time fans came to accept X-Men One as being the core of what the comics were about. And, when the sequel came, all the stuff they longed to see the first time around was plopped down on them, and, between the two films, they finally got almost everything they'd wanted. I think now that FF. is on home video we're going to see the same thing. No, Fantastic Four isn't as deep or emotionally driven as X-Men One or two is, or as credible. However, the Fantastic Four comics were *never* on that same page with X-Men comics either. FF. was always about fantasy, color and humor, whereas X-Men was about *grounding* fantasy, being more down to earth.

They had trouble finding the tone here and there in this first one, but with Story back for a second one, like Singer, I think he'll get there. Like Patrick Stewart and Jackman said of X-Men One, that was like a trailer for the sequel. The first one is a pilot run, working towards getting to the real deal. Fantastic Four felt more together than just that, so if this is true, how much the better. So, I say, good to have Tim Story back.

Another thing, Over at Aint It Cool News, Story was browbeaten, panned, because so many others over there wanted Peyton (Down With Love) Reed to do his Fantastic Four that he wanted to set in the 60's. Okay, Down With Love was a bomb. And it was set in the 60's. The only other credits Reed has are things like Bring It On. Story is blasted because he did stuff like Barbershop and Taxi! Excuse me, what makes the guy who did Bring It On into someone worthy of such huge praise *over* someone who make Barbershop?? That's absurd. Some mistakes were made here by Story, but this production was also *way* rushed, things Reed didn't have to worry about. Next time, I bet experience will help Story in a pinch, and have more input from the cast too. I'm glad he'll be back.

Bearpod, in the movie The Torch grows as a character. At first, he's just out for himself. But on the bridge, without thinking before he acts, he throws himself before an exploding gas tank to save a little girl. For all he knew, he'd be roasted alive. This is the start of things. For the rest of the film, he's all about exploiting himself and his freinds. But when Doom launches that rocket, he's the *first* of the characters to really dive into his role, throwing himself headlong into the street, meeting the challenge.

ToM

Bigkid
12-14-2005, 12:26 PM
I think it was a foregone conclusion that Puppet Master would be in the sequel, anyway. There is a scene that was left on the cutting room floor, apparently, where Ben is visiting Alicia (either at an art exhibit, or at an art GALLERY, I'm not sure), in which Ben sees some puppets on the wall and asks her if those were made by her. And she responds by saying, "No, those were made by my father". There would've been a collective, "ooooooooo!" Had that been included in the film, I think.....sort of a "tipping of the hand" as to WHO would've been the next villain in the upcoming sequel (but we've touched on this before in the FF villains thread, anyway, haven't we??)

Sorry to go over the same old ground again! :wink:

Pod
12-14-2005, 02:18 PM
Bearpod, in the movie The Torch grows as a character. At first, he's just out for himself. But on the bridge, without thinking before he acts, he throws himself before an exploding gas tank to save a little girl. For all he knew, he'd be roasted alive. This is the start of things. For the rest of the film, he's all about exploiting himself and his freinds. But when Doom launches that rocket, he's the *first* of the characters to really dive into his role, throwing himself headlong into the street, meeting the challenge.

Well that's the sacrifice value of the superhero part of the guy. I think he needs to get more into the human aspects of the character. He should have that feeling of being the first guy to start the battles and help out but maybe more on the guy himself. He doesn't keep himself locked up in his room and stuff. The motorcycle scene pretty much go that part where you see the guy likes to be doing fun stuff, of course that's not a very normal activity but it was still cool for the movie. More on him being a normal guy and even though he loves the superstar thing now in his life, he should still try to get a serious relationship, for example.

Or we'll just keep him a playboy... :P

Bigkid
01-04-2006, 06:52 PM
This sequel would actually be a great place to introduce, "The Inhumans", actually. Johnny really grew up when he fell in love with Crystal. But, of course, I don't think that they are going to even APPROACH the idea for this sequel. They are going to want to go full bore ahead on bringing in another super-villain to tangle with the FF......... but it still would be nice to see Johnny get with Crystal. However they would decide to do it......maybe she could be introduced WITHOUT the other Inhumans along? Introduce them in FF3, perhaps!?

Anyone agree........disagree??

Please........SHARE! :wink:

Pod
01-04-2006, 07:18 PM
Bigkid...it's never ganna happen from what I see of the sequels of F4...It's not FF....well, kinda.

So on the Inhumans; The characters will bring the types of stories that the studio seems to not want to include. They're going for the family fun thing. Yeah, they'll try to fit some stuff to give it some "cool" things for the fans but they won't stay that well to the comic.

Crystal.........ha!!!!!! :lol: As not funny as it is, the idea of her in the film will be the part of all those things that wont happen in these sequels. Including Glactus, Namor, Silver Surfer or any good villian. No...they'll go with a stereotyped film where the heroes fight the supervillian and save the frigggin day.... :x :x :x

Bigkid
01-04-2006, 07:48 PM
Perhaps you are right about that, BEARPOD......... I just thought that it might be nice to introduce a love angle for Johnny that could REALLY up the stakes for him to show his growth as a PERSON....... and Crystal really made him grow up in the comics, when he realized his love for her. I know that it's a stretch (no pun intended, really), to bring HER character into this film (also due to the fact it's from ANOTHER comic, without the other characters available), but it's still an idea worth exploring (giving him a love interest, that is).