Fantasy?

[gloom_cookie]

Why is Science Fiction forever linked to Fantasy?

[Strider]

Conversely, why is Fantasy forever linked to Science Fiction?

I suppose it's because both genres usually feature the fantasical in some way whether it is a strange world or characters with super powers or spaceships or magical powers, etc. etc...

Or maybe someone in power back in the olden days linked them together and they have been doomed ever since. ;)

[neglet]

Fantasy and Sci Fi are linked for several reasons:

• Both use elements of the fantastic, whether advanced science or magic
• That fantastic element is necessary to advance the story (ie, the story wouldn't happen without warp drive or dragons)
• They often have similar themes of quest and self-discovery
• Many authors write in both genres, so it's easier marketing both together

And, as noted Sci Fi author Arthur C. Clarke has observed, any advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic to the uneducated mind. All reasons why the two genres go together so well.

[MPG]

I guess I must nitpick.
<nitpick>

Originally Posted by neglet

Both use elements of the fantastic, whether advanced science or magic

Sure, if you define "advanced science" as an "element of the fantastic", then scifi is automatically alike to fantasy. ;) I don't consider "advanced science" an element of the fantastic though. Science fiction is very often speculation about scientific advancements that could actually happen, while the kind of magic found in fantasy is rather unlikely to have ever existed.

That fantastic element is necessary to advance the story (ie, the story wouldn't happen without warp drive or dragons)

Again, I must disagree. I can think of many scifi stories that would work also in a non-scifi setting. Sure, many Star Trek episodes for example would not be possible without e.g. the need to fix a certain bit of futuristic equipment, but often, the warp drive is just a means to get from one place to another and not actually the reason for the story itself. With fantasy, it's a bit harder (though also not always impossible) to move the story into a modern-day non-fantasy setting.

They often have similar themes of quest and self-discovery

I think the "quest" theme is really very typical to fantasy. As for self-discovery, I think that's a very common theme throughout all fiction.

Many authors write in both genres,

I'm not disputing that, but at least my favorite sci-fi and fantasy authors stick to one of the genres, so I haven't really noticed that much "crossing over".

And, as noted Sci Fi author Arthur C. Clarke has observed, any advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic to the uneducated mind. All reasons why the two genres go together so well.

So they go together well because we're uneducated? Actually, good science fiction authors make quite sure that the science in their fiction does not appear like magic but is explained through an appropriate amount of technobabble.
</nitpick>

Actually, I think you gave the best explanation in the headline: Geeks like both.

[Strider]

LOL! I totally missed the geek thing in neglet's post.

[Jakester]

Okay, I'll lay it out for you -- Fantasy is when you imagine that Neglet is your sex slave with an oral fixation.

Sci-Fi is when you imagine that Neglet is your sex slave with an oral fixation -- on a the moon.

[neglet]

Originally Posted by MPG

Sure, if you define "advanced science" as an "element of the fantastic", then scifi is automatically alike to fantasy. ;) I don't consider "advanced science" an element of the fantastic though. Science fiction is very often speculation about scientific advancements that could actually happen, while the kind of magic found in fantasy is rather unlikely to have ever existed.

Well, you've articulated what distinguishes SF from fantasy--possibility vs. impossibility--but I don't think that invalidates my point that both genres contain elements/events that could not happen in today's world. Sure, warp drive may happen some day in the future, while wizards and dragons have never existed and probably will never exist--but right now, at this moment, neither exist and thus both elements are fantastic. Both genres excite the imagination with what could be/could never be, which gives them common ground.

I can think of many scifi stories that would work also in a non-scifi setting. Sure, many Star Trek episodes for example would not be possible without e.g. the need to fix a certain bit of futuristic equipment, but often, the warp drive is just a means to get from one place to another and not actually the reason for the story itself. With fantasy, it's a bit harder (though also not always impossible) to move the story into a modern-day non-fantasy setting.

Well, there's a broad range within each genre, from near/far future in sf to crossover worlds/different worlds in fantasy. There are many so-called sf/fantasy stories that aren't very focused on the fantastic/science elements. They may still be good stories, but does that make them sf/fantasy? Some might say no.

So they go together well because we're uneducated? Actually, good science fiction authors make quite sure that the science in their fiction does not appear like magic but is explained through an appropriate amount of technobabble.

"Uneducated" isn't really the word I was looking for, but I couldn't think of the right one. The point still remains: if you know nothing about how molecules and radio waves work, a microwave will seem magical (food is cold! now it's warm!). Both genres appeal to our curiosity and our sense of wonder.

And actually, I would say that a good sci fi author doesn't rely on technobabble, but instead makes sure that their world and the science is based on is consistent--just as a good fantasy author makes sure their world and the magic is it based on is consistent. If you change the rules in the middle of your story, readers will know it's a cheat.

Actually, I think you gave the best explanation in the headline: Geeks like both.

And geeks will argue about both...

[SinisterPryde]

I once saw an explanation of the two-genres that went something like this:

Sci-Fi (or SF) is a reality that defines it's characters. Fantasy is a reality defined by it's characters.

They suggest that many fantasy novels (those which use Mana or other defined sources for magic) are actually sci-fi because the world they live in is well defined by a physical set of rules. The magic in these stories can be quantified (frequently they are talking about "too much power" and "limitations" in these stories. So, by this definition, books like The Wheel of Time are actually sci-fi.

On the other hand, it is suggested that Star Wars is actually fantasy in a sci-fi setting. Here, the reality is defined by the neccessity of the characters. Much of what exists in these movies can not exist in the physical universe. Lightsabers would incinerate the user, most of the ships could never actually fly, and there is no real limitation to what the Force can accomplish.

Likewise (and I know I'm nitpicking here) just because it looks like a specific genre doesn't mean it is. Outland, for example, is just a Western (think High Noon) with sci-fi dressing.

Wish I could remember the source...

[gloom_cookie]

Originally Posted by SinisterPryde

I once saw an explanation of the two-genres that went something like this:

Sci-Fi (or SF) is a reality that defines it's characters. Fantasy is a reality defined by it's characters.

To me, that would seems to be decided by the author, not the genre. Or, another way 'round, the author's character choices don't decide the genre.

[Tricksterson]

Originally Posted by gloom_cookie

Why is Science Fiction forever linked to Fantasy?

Because they both scare the norms.