Middle East Discussion

[whitetemplar78]

ok here it goes, lets see if I can do a good reply..lol

Originally Posted by Space Tycoon

Excuse me? I see denunciations of those very countries on a regular basis, nearly every day, in the world press. Those countries are indeed rampant abusers of human rights. And not incidentaly, many of those countries are close allies of the United States, and recipients of considerable financial and military aid. More than a few of them actually do the torturing for us. Off the books.

If America is to change the world and keep the flame of liberty alive, she must do so first by example. That means not getting lazy, or sloppy, or living down to the standards of savage third world tyrannies.

.

I think we are far from third world tyrannies, all the time we check ourselves about our own deeds. My God in our own press we rant on our failings as a country far more then what the world press could do, look at the case where our own justice system granted suspected terrorists the right to a Civil trial, instead of a military tribunial.........for every case where we condem America, I see rays of hope, that we still are one of the good guys, when stuff like that happens

Originally Posted by Space Tycoon

Ask anyone knowledgeable in the gathering of good intelligence, and they will tell you that 99% of the best work is accomplished through subtle professionalism. Research, paid informants, studying the object of interest. Not Jack Bauer-style cruelty. Such tactics accomplish very little useful results, if any. People will say and do anything under duress.

.

I agree, I believe for the most part that this is what our Intelligence people do, but I also believe like I stated that this war just creates CHANCES for misdeeds, and abuses to happen. Go back in history, and you'll find case after case of Intel personal going to extremes to get the information they needed. The same is happening here, sadly a few bad apples, makes the whole system look bad. If anything this conflict I believe will create even more chances for misteps, since Intelligence is vital to fight this war, since the foe we face best defence, is hiding amoung the local people.......not like the conventional war, where the enemy is out on a battlefield wearing a uniform

Originally Posted by Space Tycoon

Thanks, but I'm not that smart, I just have good sources. And a lot of time on my hands. Too much, if it comes down to it... :OhWell:





.

haha, I hear yah on that one, high gas prices means alot more time at home to rant, and rave........lol but oh well, at least we are fixing the worlds problems one thread at a time...lol

[Space Tycoon]

Originally Posted by whitetemplar78

I think we are far from third world tyrannies, all the time we check ourselves about our own deeds.

We are getting closer with every generation. the apathy makes it all the more likely that things will get worse...

I agree, I believe for the most part that this is what our Intelligence people do, but I also believe like I stated that this war just creates CHANCES for misdeeds, and abuses to happen. Go back in history, and you'll find case after case of Intel personal going to extremes to get the information they needed.

Perhaps it would help if we had examples of any cases where torture or coerced confessions produced anything tangible. I keep hearing about how unavoidable this is and how our agents need to do their job, but precious little evidence that this has been effective or useful...

The same is happening here, sadly a few bad apples, makes the whole system look bad.

And yet, surely you know that the policy of rendition, "Guantanamization," and disregard for international rules of engagement were directed straight from the top, from Mr. Rumsfeld, Gonzalez and others. Not just a "few bad apples" deviating from the norm, although they are the only ones who are punished.

If anything this conflict I believe will create even more chances for misteps, since Intelligence is vital to fight this war, since the foe we face best defence, is hiding amoung the local people.......not like the conventional war, where the enemy is out on a battlefield wearing a uniform

Wars of occupation inevitably corrupt and brutalize the military forces sent to do an impossible job. Read about any colonial or guerilla war and you will see this is usually the case. The French in Algeria offer one of the closest parallells.

haha, I hear yah on that one, high gas prices means alot more time at home to rant, and rave........lol but oh well, at least we are fixing the worlds problems one thread at a time...lol

A couple hundred thousand more should do the trick. :OhWell:







.

[rappites]

Amazing Etch a Sketch artist video