Middle East Discussion

[Al-Dog]

Originally Posted by Space Tycoon

Famous last words...

Unfortunately the President will not be impeached, because that would leave us with Dick Cheney's drunken hand on the nuclear trigger. Unless you took 'em both out at once, which would be the closest thing to a living wet dream I can think of...

Still, I would welcome it. The Bush Administration needs to be brought to justice one way or another. And I don't mean throwing flunkies like "Scooter" Libby to the wolves. You have to go right to the top.

I’m not trying to defend Bush, but I’m just wondering what did he do illegal? Doesn’t the President have to be involved with some sort of crime in order to be impeached?

While I think invading Iraq wasn’t the smartest idea, I’m not sure how that it could be considered illegal. The Iraq War Resolution was passed by the House and Senate and signed by the President, so under the laws of the United States, it was a legal act. While it was stupid, I do not see how it is illegal.

If he’s committed a crime that I had missed, please let me know.

And no, I’m not a Republican and I didn’t vote for Bush. The first election I voted for Gore and the second I voted for who ever ran for the Libertarian party.

[Gentlemen Death]

What is so wrong with voting for Bush. Everyone has to justify themselves that they ARE NOT a republican or voted for Bush in the last two elections for fear of being outed here.

Well you know what, i voted for Bush, yeah thats right i did. So what, i have my views and respect everyone elses as i am sure they should respect mine. And by the way i am a republican, i am not rich, and i do not hate gays. I am not the sterotypical republican and as much as i do think that Bush is an idiot, i am not going to back down for who i voted for and what i believe because that would make me a democrat( no i am just playing) ....thank everybody and goodnight!

[Nostromo]

John Dean knows a lot about the impeachment process including the articles of and, the grounds for. This is from the CNN Law site. N

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/06/fi...ysis.dean.wmd/

[Al-Dog]

Meanwhile, back in Iran. . .
Nobel laureate: Iranian-Americans political prisoners

Originally Posted by CNN

-- An Iranian-American woman detained in Tehran is being held illegally and has been repeatedly denied access to an attorney, Iranian Nobel Peace Prize winner Shirin Ebadi told CNN on Friday.
Ebadi said that Haleh Esfandiari and other Iranian-Americans held in Iran are political prisoners.
"Iran doesn't observe laws," she said through an interpreter in an exclusive interview while visiting the United States.
Iranian officials have said Esfandiari, a scholar with dual citizenship, is being held in prison in Tehran while under investigation for "crimes against national security."
Ebadi, one of Esfandiari's attorneys, said her client is innocent.
The Nobel laureate said that two of her colleagues went to try to see Esfandiari but officials at a judge's office would not let them in.
When they asked to read Esfandiari's file, they were denied access, she said.
"And when they asked what the charges were, they did not get an answer," she said.
Esfandiari, who works for the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington, was detained in Tehran on May 8. Her husband, Shaul Bakhash, said she had been questioned for weeks before her arrest.
Esfandiari's problems began in December, when her passports were stolen as she was on her way to catch a flight home. When she applied for a new passport, authorities began questioning her about her work. The Woodrow Wilson Center says the questioning was conducted by officials of the Ministry of Intelligence and Security.
Earlier this month, Esfandiari was locked up in Tehran's Evin Prison, which houses many Iranian dissidents and political prisoners.
In 2000, Ebadi was held in the same prison.
"This is a small room with cement walls and no windows," she said. "There is a fluorescent light that's on 24 hours. And since one's watch is taken from one, you can never tell the time."
Ebadi said she will return to Iran early next month to take up Esfandiari's case -- and try to visit her in prison. "I will go there two or three times per week. I will challenge the court, and I will make them understand that they are violating my client's human rights."
Ebadi, who won the 2003 Nobel Peace Prize, is the founder of the Center for Defense of Human Rights in Tehran. She is the first Muslim woman to win the coveted award.
In a statement issued Friday, Human Rights Watch demanded the Iranian authorities "should immediately release the three Iranian-Americans and the dozens of activists, teachers and scholars arbitrarily detained."

Others reportedly detained

Besides Esfandiari, Human Rights Watch said an Iranian-American sociologist, Kian Tajbakhsh, also is being held at Evin Prison after being arrested May 11. Tajbakhsh works for the Open Society Institute. The Iranian authorities have not confirmed his arrest.
Associates of Ali Shakeri, another Iranian-American who recently had traveled to Iran, told Human Rights Watch that he is also being detained by the Iranian authorities. The Iranian government has not provided any public information about his whereabouts.
The authorities also have confiscated the passport of Parnaz Azima, a reporter for Persian-language broadcaster Radio Farda who holds both Iranian and American citizenship. The prosecutor's office told her that she would be charged with working for an "institution spreading publicity against the Iranian Islamic Republic."

[Al-Dog]

Originally Posted by Gentlemen Death

What is so wrong with voting for Bush. Everyone has to justify themselves that they ARE NOT a republican or voted for Bush in the last two elections for fear of being outed here.

You are right I’m a little gun shy about even giving the perception of defending Bush, after someone jumped on me with both feet after one of my sarcastic remarks that gave someone the impression that I was conservative.

But, I really didn’t vote for Bush and (aside from voting against Cynthia McKinney) I’ve only voted for a hand full of Republicans. Depending on how the primaries shake out, I might vote for a Republican this time.

Yeah I said it.

[Gentlemen Death]

Feel the force flowing thorugh you

[Senormac]

Originally Posted by Gentlemen Death

Feel the force flowing through you

p.s. yea, I fixed your spelling error. I didn't want the wrath of NEGLET coming down on you

[hawklord]

Originally Posted by Al-Dog

I was thinking we could use an open ended thread to discuss the various aspects of the Middle East situation...

We're like a football team that's losing 3-0 with 10 minutes to go. Do we go for the win, and risk losing 7-0 as a result of stretching ourselves, or do we grimly hang on and hope the score still looks vaguely respectable when the final whistle blows?

I didn't ever approve of the action against Saddam. But, we're there. Fact. So, dealing with the existing situation:

So far, i've felt that premature withdrawal could cause more problems than it solves. But an open-ended bogged-down state is no use either.

I know "if only's" are no use, but if only the Coalition had behaved sensibly at the start, and prevented the looting, and bust a gut to restore electricity, and a few other things like that, then perhaps we might have been able to win the "hearts and minds" that we've heard so much about.

But we didn't. And those "hearts and minds" now either hate us, or are too busy hating opposing factions in their own district to worry about hating us. Either way, it's a balls-up so far as bringing democracy to Iraq goes.

Really, it's probably gone too far now, for us to turn the game around. Perhaps the debate now needs to be about the mechanics of a dignified withdrawal before a VietNam-type scrambled exodus happens.

[Space Tycoon]

Originally Posted by Al-Dog

I’m not trying to defend Bush, but I’m just wondering what did he do illegal? Doesn’t the President have to be involved with some sort of crime in order to be impeached?

....If he’s committed a crime that I had missed, please let me know.

You're joking, right?

Lying to Congress, and the American people, about Saddam's attempts to purchase yellowcake uranium from Niger, in order to make a case for invading the sovereign nation Iraq;

Exposing CIA Agent Valerie Plame as punishment when her husband went public with the revelation of the cooked intelligence;

Prisoner abuse at Guantanamo bay and Abu Ghraib, which contravene the Geneva Convention to which the US is a signatory;

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Please don't tell me you have been blissfuly unaware of these "high crimes and misdemeanours," which are surely treasonable offenses...

And no, I’m not a Republican and I didn’t vote for Bush. The first election I voted for Gore and the second I voted for who ever ran for the Libertarian party.

Doesn't matter. There have been principled conservatives against this foreign policy from the get go...





.

[Space Tycoon]

Why Congress caved...

The antiwar Democrats are crying betrayal – and justifiably so.

For a Democratic Congress is now voting to fully fund the war in Iraq, as demanded by President Bush, and without any timetable for a U.S. troop withdrawal. Bush got his $100 billion, then magnanimously agreed to let Democrats keep the $20 billion in pork they stuffed into the bill – to soothe the pain of their sellout of the party base.

Remarkable. If the Republican rout of 2006 said anything, it was that America had lost faith in the Bush-Rumsfeld conduct of the war and wanted Democrats to lead the country out.

Yet, today, there are more U.S. troops in Iraq than when the Democrats won. More are on the way. And with the surge and retention of troops in Iraq beyond normal tours, there should be a record number of U.S. troops in country by year's end.

Why did the Democrats capitulate?

Because they lack the courage of their convictions. Because they fear the consequences if they put their antiwar beliefs into practice. Because they are afraid if they defund the war and force President Bush to withdraw U.S. troops, the calamity he predicts will come to pass and they will be held accountable for losing Iraq and the strategic disaster that might well ensue.

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