Frankencastle: Rebuilding THE PUNISHER Comments - Mania.com



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ChadDerdowski 1/13/2010 4:43:45 PM

Yes it does - sounds like you just don't like it.  Which is something you've been quite vocal about but never really went into great detail about.  It really just boils down to a difference of opinion/outlook.  I think you're wrong - especially in regard to Moore being suited for the story - but to each his own.  Me thinking you're wrong doesn't make you wrong.  I just needed to know where you were coming from on this.

I absolutely agree with you that this book was already awesome before the FrankenCastle stuff.  But that's because Rick Remender, as you said, was making Frank such an interesting character; something that I really feel had never been done before.  Sure, I liked the Punisher when I was 12, but it was for the same reasons as I liked the GI Joe movie... I've always found the guy to be pretty one-dimensional, but Remender really gave him some depth.

A shake-up like this is completely in my wheelhouse.  As I've stated many times, I dig glowing brains in jars and talking monkeys.  I like the absurd and I love the notion of a deadly serious, grim n' gritty character like the Punisher being so completely turned on his ear.  I like the idea of "Just when you think you couldn't do anything new with The Punisher..."  

As for status quo... these days the status quo seems to be that there is no status quo and personally, I could care less about that stuff anyway.  Just give me a good story.  The previous Punisher storyline wasn't what was so great, it was Remender's characterization.  The story, in my opinion, was fairly run-of-the-mill Punisher stuff.... to me, the compelling thing now is to see how Frank (as written by Rick Remender) copes with the absurdity of this situation. 

As for a "dream episode of your favorite show" ... $hit, isn't that what all comics are?  Re-writing history, growing six arms, meeting a talking dinosaur, Civil War... it's all a big dream episode anymore.

lister 1/13/2010 5:01:19 PM

Well, I didn't go into detail because no one asked until now!

I don't feel like comics are just a random sequence of dream episodes. One can believe in the fantastic as long as there is a structure to the rules (for example, they get into trouble when Superman can fly only as fast as sound, and then 10 issues later he can fly as fast as light). Dream worlds have no rules, and so don't interest me. When there are no constraints, there is no drama. This gets tough when we enter the realm of, say, Dormmamu, but the best writers of Dr. Strange we able to use the fake magic and extra dimensions in a way that doesn't make me think that Elmer Fudd could suddenly appear with the "magic amulet" that will save all humanity.

A cool abrupt plot transition? Guardians of the Galaxy wiping out half the team. Unexpected. An emotional gut-punch. A serious effect on the team and the future direction of the book. Sure it could all get wiped out at any moment. But it hurts so good right now.

FrankenCastle may be fun (for you) but it's in the way of me making peace with this character that has been so beloved for so long at good ol' 616.

I am a firm believer in continuity and story arcs because those have given me the most lasting rewards over the years... but hey, give me a great standalone issue anytime! I hate when they write for the trade.

agentkooper 1/13/2010 6:50:54 PM

In somewhat related news my daughter and I watched GI Joe today.  She LOVED it.  I mean it, she thought it was totally badass on every level.  As for me, watching it with an enthusiastic kid made the experience for me.  We had a totall blast watching it (except for when she was coughing up a lung, sick day doncha know) and chewing on popcorn.  It was fun.  If I watched it with a bunch of jaded adults I probably would have walked away with a totally different opinion. 

Chad kind of alluded to it above, but after watching it I don't understand how someone can enjoy Transformers and hate on this movie.  It just doesn't add up to me.

OK, now back to comics.

ChadDerdowski 1/13/2010 7:19:30 PM

 Lister - we're just on two totally different pages when it comes to comics, that's all.  I'd say we just have differening philosophies and place importance in different places

My feelings toward continuity end with the phrase "schmontinuity".    It gets revamped, retconned and simply rewritten (what war is Frank a veteran of these days?) all the time - whatever is happening now is continuity and writers pick and choose what they want to use while readers struggle to piece it all together and form a fluid line.  But if you go back more than  2 to 5 years, the ball of string starts to unravel.  It seems to me that any sort of "rules" that the comic companies adhere to regarding their characters just get rewritten every few years anyway. 

You say tomato while I say tomahto. 

agentkooper - that's what I'm sayin'!  It has it's charm.

lister 1/13/2010 8:15:31 PM

I guess I'm in the Mark Greunwald school of continuity making things more fun. But I like it here!!

(G.I. Joe is charming to 10 year olds? I actually knew that before Ben went and watched it with his gal...)

deadcowboy138 1/13/2010 11:49:08 PM

Hey guys, Kurt here.  Yes, No-Fly Zone Kurt.

Check this out.  I like Marvel horror a lot.  I love the Legion of Monsters.  I also love the Punisher.  He's one of the few superheroes (if you want to call him that) that I still bother to read.  The Frankencastle story kind of reminds me of the peanut butter and bacon burger this bar in the French Quarter serves.  Effectively, it takes three awesome foods--beef, peanut butter, and bacon--and puts them together.  On paper, this sounds painfully revolting.  But, I gotta tell you it's awesome.  It's like eating the best sex you've ever had.  Similarly, Frankencastle has all the makings of utter garbage.  But, it throws together a couple of pieces of Marveldom that I still like and makes them work somehow.  And, if you don't like it, just realize that it'll be over and the title will go back to the status quo in a year or so.  This isn't permenant, because it's not the version of the Punisher they sell in licensed media.  You will see the regular Frank Castle back.  Right now, enjoy the trip out to left field for what it is, and keep reading PunisherMax for the more traditional take.

ChadDerdowski 1/14/2010 6:16:01 AM

Well said, Kurt.

jedibanner 1/14/2010 7:26:14 AM

Isn't it what I said Kurt originally???

ahh, I loves myself......

As far as comparing that book with GI Joe....i don't really see them as the same. It's true it's hands down the worst movie of 2009 but, it's also true if you leave your brain out the door, your hopes of a good story to a minimum, your level of admiration for good acting as a joke and keep your eyes open like a 10 year old, yeah, sure, it's a good movie.

But Transformers 2 was better and more fun, that's just me.

ChadDerdowski 1/14/2010 9:28:52 AM

Well, Kurt went into a little more detail and he compared the whole thing to food so I got distracted and hungry ...

I don't think we were comparing this book to the G.I. Joe movie though; Ben was saying that readers should trust my judgement on Punisher even though I liked G.I. Joe.  But just because I liked it doesn't mean I thought it was good!  There's a difference.  I mean, there's such a thing as a "good dump", right?  But it's still a pile of crap.

Yo Joe!

agentkooper 1/14/2010 11:24:19 AM

This is the best GI Joe/ Frankencastle thread ever!

For people who enjoyed the last arc on Punisher I totally recommend Jason Aaron's current work on Punisher Max.  While Frank isn't a character showing any growth at all, what he is doing with a "real world" Kingpin is great.  Check it out!

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