Getting the Heads Rolling: Christopher Lee Speaks, Part Two

By: Craig D. Reid
Date: Wednesday, April 26, 2000

In Part One of our interview with the illustrious Christopher Lee, the actor shared his opinions about the press (specifically, the British Press), his humble beginnings as an actor, and an influential conversation with Boris Karloff, and discussed what it means to be an actor and why he got involved in 'horror' films. He also expressed his disdain for the label 'horror films,' which he prefers to call fantasies, fairy stories, or morality plays. He finally touched upon his friendship with Roger Moore, his involvement in American TV, AIRPORT 77, his last Hammer film TO THE DEVIL - A DAUGHTER (1976), and his dealings with Alexandra Jodorowsky on RAINBOW THIEF (1990). Part One ended as it began, a question about SLEEPY HOLLOW.

When you watch SLEEPY HOLLOW, the look is very reminiscent of Hammer's early films, particularly the works of Jack Asher, who was the director of photography for Lee's HORROR OF DRACULA (1958) and CURSE OF FRANKENSTEIN (1957). Whereas he opted for a more prominent use of backlighting and classical texturing, Burton's was more naturalistic with a subtle blending of blacks. SLEEPY HOLLOW also had the feel of Mario Bava's BLACK SUNDAY (1961) and BLACK SABBATH (1963) (Lee starred in Bava's THE WHIP AND THE BODY [a.k.a. WHAT!] in 1962) and HERCULES IN THE HAUNTED WORLD, 1961). These influence are particularly apparent during the carriage rides through spooky forests and the finale windmill scene (reminiscent of BRIDES OF DRACULA, 1960), and Depp's Ichabod Crane blends elements from Lee's character in THE GORGON (1964) and Peter Cushing's Sherlock Holmes in THE HOUND OF THE BASKERVILLES (1959) and Dr. Van Helsing in HORROR OF DRACULA (although none of them screamed like a thirteen-year-old girl!). Furthermore, the energetic, intense and sometimes violent soundtrack by Danny Elfman reminded one of James Bernard, who scored Lee's HORROR OF DRACULA and CURSE OF FRANKENSTEIN. All in all, the tie-ins of Lee's career to SLEEPY HOLLOW are overwhelming, and director Tim Burton openly admits that, indeed, these were his intentions ('I grew up watching Hammer horror movies, and this is the first time I can make a movie like I loved,' he told Fandom). So without trying to pull a deja vu on you all...

QUESTION: SO WHY DID YOU GET INVOLVED IN 'SLEEPY HOLLOW?'

LEE: I mean, well, I have 3 films to come out in this country. One has already come out in the states, which is why you're calling meor perhaps I should say, why I'm calling you. [laugh] One was filmed in Pakistan, so I went there for about 10 weeks. I played Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the founder of a nation, Pakistan. The film is called...


JINNAH, WITH JAMES FOX AS MOUNTBATTEN, ROBERT ASHBY AS NEHRU, AND SAM DASTOR AS GHANDI.

Quite. It hasn't been released in the United States yet.

REALLY? WASN'T IT RELEASED IN LA?

Oh no. It wasn't 'released,' but it was shown in 2 theaters for about 10 days before the Oscars last year. But because they didn't send videos to the members of the academy, it couldn't be nominated for anything. But the reviews from the people who have seen itsome which I can't quote because they're associated press, and you can't quote them until the film comes outbut if you read Kevin Thomas in the Los Angeles Times, that's good enough for me. I don't think I've ever had a review like that in my entire career. That's still got to come out, and it's a very good movie. It's the biggest challenge I've ever had as an actor, and the greatest responsibility I've ever had to bear. It wasn't easy. Yeah, there was one newspaper that attacked us and smeared us every single day during the filming. Every hour of the day. We found out, of course, that the person responsible for the articles wanted to play the part himself!

YOU'RE KIDDING ME. THAT'S CRAZY.

Well, there you go again, the media. You know, it happens. However, hopefully the film will get a distributor. It deserves to. It's a good movie. I have that to come out, and I have SLEEPY HOLLOW to come out here [in England]. Next I have the BBC's flagship production of the millennium to come out, which I play sort of second lead, really. It's called GORMENGHAST. Four hours of film from a book by a man who's been dead for some years called Mervyn Peake. And they said it could never be filmed. Well, it's been done, and I think that probably the BBC has created television history with this production. It will eventually be seen in the states, of course. It was taken up by the states months ago. It's an astonishing achievement, and the cast is just, almost unbelievable. So those are the three films I have coming out here.

IS IT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO ASSUME THAT MAYBE ONE OF THE REASONS WHY YOU DID 'SLEEPY HOLLOW' WAS TO HAVE KIDS OF THIS GENERATION SEE WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING?

Why yes, and also that people realize that I'm still around, still above ground, and still working. I mean, after all, my contribution is very short, 5 minutes but I start the ball rollingor you might say-the heads rolling, so to speak.

THE BURGOMEISTER. YOU KNOW YOUR ROLE EVOKED IMAGES FROM YOUR ROLE AS THE JUDGE THAT SENTENCED WITCHES TO BE BURNED AT THE STAKE IN 'BLOODY JUDGE' (1958) (a.k.a. THRONE OF BLOOD). (laugh)

The Burgomeister, yes, well I haven't seen it yet, but I'm sure I will shortly. I gather it's a tremendous picture. I've been told that it's been very successful.

YES.

A big, big hit...I'm delighted, just delighted, because it's very important for an actor or an actress to be in a commercially successful film. You can have the performance of your life in a film which doesn't make money, and nobody wants to know. But you can have a short-ish part, like I have in SLEEPY HOLLOW, and within 48 hours my manager was getting telephone calls from casting directors. Because, I mean, a film which is going to be a big success, that is what matters. We won't go into whether that makes sense or not, but that is what matters.

IT'S DONE OVER $100-MILLION IN AMERICA SO FAR.

That's quite a bit, and that's only in the Unites States. And you can imagine this kind of film is going to have tremendous appeal, I would think, just about everywhere. But getting back to your questionI would say about 30 minutes ago or so [laugh]I really did it for two reasons, and the two reasons are two names: Tim Burton; Johnny Depp. That's why I did it. Because it was just for a couple of days, but I must tell you, I have always enjoyed Tim Burton's work and have always been an admirer of Johnny Depp's work as an actor. And, all I can say is, that out of the 53 years that I've been an actor nowwell, 53 years in JanuaryI must , and this is important, it was one of the most enjoyable experiences that I can recall. When you've got that enthusiasm, encouragement, appreciation and that kind of mind behind the camera, it was only the other day I discovered that he had publicly said it was his homage to Hammer. I never knew that at the time, I have to say. It was never mentioned to me, and I don't think we talked about it, but I didn't know about that. So, when you've got that from behind the camera, and your marvelous unit, as well working with you, helping you, because we all need it, when you have it in front of the camera, a young man like Depp, I could almost be his grandfather, and you're getting back from this young man the kind of communication that, as an actor, you very seldom have. I was immensely impressed, and I can't say that about many. But that is not to denigrate my colleagues, not that at all, because there are some very fine actors around. I mean, for instance, I'd go to see any film with Gene Hackman in it, who I think is a superb actor. For me, he's my number one. Just as, in the earlier days, Walter Huston was my number one and still is, in a way, I suppose, in terms of history.

AND OF COURSE CONRAD VEIDT.

And Conrad Veidt, of course, my idol. And I think working with a man like Johnny Depp, who is a delightful person to be with, away from the set, so to speak, as a companion, and is an extraordinarily versatile actorwhen you've done as much as I have, you do know within minutes whether it's real or not. It certainly is with him. Total involvement, total dedicationit is all there. Same thing, with Tim.

THE OPENING SCENE YOU DID WITH DEPP REALLY DID COME ALIVE, ABSOLUTELY ALIVE.

It starts the film, that's all I can say. I don't know whether anybody will remember that I was in it, in the end...they might.

I WILL (LAUGH)

I gathered that. I have also heard that when it was shown there in America, there was a reaction, shall we say, when I appeared on the screen.

THAT'S SO TRUE. PLUS, TO SEE YOU AND MICHAEL GOUGH BACK TOGETHER IN THE SAME FILM WAS JUST VERY EXCITING. (Gough appeared with Lee in CRIMSON CULT (1968), THE SKULL (1965) and there first film together HORROR OF DRACULA)

Michael? Ah yes. Michael actually did tell me that this would be his last film. However, I was not on set at the same time as he and obviously not in the same scene. But I'm sure Michael would not mind my saying this, he's quite a bit older now. I mean, I'm terribly old, and I think Michael is about 83 or 84, thereabouts. And for that reason, I suppose, he's quoted as saying that this will indeed be his last film. He did this film because he had worked with Tim in BATMAN, and I believe Tim asked for him for the same reason. But obviously, we had a wonderful cast in this picture, all extremely fine actors and actresses, and I'm sure it works wonderfully well. But for me, it was a marvelous experience; I mean, I had that with Joe Dante in GREMLINS 2: THE NEW BATCH [1990], had a wonderful time. It is demanding, though. You have got to get it right, you know. You're not there just to enjoy yourself, so to speak. And I also had a very enjoyable experience with Steven Spielberg on 1941 (1979). But you've got to get it right. I mean, they expect you to deliver. Nothing wrong with that. But it comes from both sides of the camera. And I just know that I got a message from my agentI believe it was in October of 98, and I think they started in Novembersaying that Tim Burton would like to meet me. with regards to SLEEPY HOLLOW. I had no idea what the part would be. I know the story extremely well, of course; I read it many years ago. It is the first, almost the first, American, gothic thriller.

NOW THAT'S A GREAT WAY OF PUTTING IT.

Washington Irving. I mean, you know, it preceded Poe, and it's probably the first story of that kind in the history of American literature. But it's part of a series of stories in a casebook, which has a title, I can't remember what it is. Well it's, you know, 'Ichabod Crane and the Headless Horseman,' 'The Legend of Sleepy Hollow' or whatever, and there are people in this film that don't even get billing.

YES, LIKE MARTIN LANDAU.

Exactly, that's right. And of course Christopher Walkenhe's the headless horseman. But you see, he is instantly recognizable. But there have been cases of people appearing in films without being billed, because the faces are so well known and they do it as a favor and also lot of times because it's for fun and they just want to be involved. I mean, it doesn't matter, you know, whether it's one day, one week, one month or a year, if it comes to that. It's always about the contribution you can make, the material you are given, and why you were asked to do it. That is the only reason for doing it.

SO WHAT WERE YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH TIM BURTON LIKE?

Oh delightful. Absolutely delightful.

WHAT KIND OF DIRECTOR WOULD YOU SAY HE IS?

Well, I don't know how he did it, but some of these people really amazed me, because the hours were extremely long. They worked right through the winter, into the beginning of the spring. They were shooting at night in the rain, in the mud. Oh, yes. And there he is, every single day, all day long, and there's all the editing going on, and, I mean, the responsibility, the load he had to bear, must have been colossal. But you would never have known it. He was always, always, enthusiastic and cheerful and encouraging, as I've said before. And it doesn't happen all that often. And, I've never worked with him before or never even met him. And all I can say is, it is amongst the most enjoyable experiences I've ever had, working with these two. Basically, that's what it was. I mean, almost everything I did was with Johnny Depp, and of course, there was Tim behind the camera.

WAS TIM VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT HE WANTED YOU TO DO OR DID HE JUST SORT OF LET YOU GO?

Well, a bit of both really, I suppose. He obviously knew what he wanted, and I mean, what's on the printed page. There are really only a limited number of ways in which you could play it, and if I did something instinctively which he thought was right, he didn't say anything; he let it go. If I did something which didn't look right to him, of course he would say so. I do remember asking him, on one particular occasion, 'Wait a minute, does that phrase refer to these people, or that person, or to me?' I didn't quite know. He knew at once, naturally, who it referred to, whatever it was, and I mean, I've been asking him questions all the time, 'How do you want me to do this? How do you want me to play it?' And after all, that is what it's all about, isn't it? It's all about having a collaboration. It's not about a confrontation. When you get right down to it, you really are, though, supposed to fun. This is a three-letter word, not a four-letter word. It's a three-letter word which has almost disappeared from the industry these days. So unless you are working with a director, like Tim Burton or even Joe Dante, and others, it is gone. You can still have fun and enjoy yourself and work very hard and deliver the results.

SO TO CLOSE ON 'SLEEPY HOLLOW,' IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAD A LOT OF THREE-LETTER WORDS.

[laugh] Oh, yes, the whole atmosphere, it was very lighthearted.